Why do RPGs always have shitty or, at best, mediocre gameplay?
>>341721124
Because the general people who play those games don't care about gameplay. Honestly though most RPGS are pretty bad about everything.
Because "gameplay" is a buzzword that doesn't actually mean anything.
I'm not running around telling people about how the literature I'm reading has good bookread either.
>>341721917
gotta remember this bait for future use
>>341721917
Many literatures have good bookread, though. House of Leaves and Tree of Codes are some examples.
>>341722025
>Wow, this movie sure has great filmwatch!
Explain to me how that makes any fucking sense
This is the prime example of a good RPG.
>>341722071
Oh, so "gameplay" means a video game is gimmicky meme garbage?
Got it!
>but MUH STORY
>>341721917
Semantics
I fucking love rpgs and turn-based battles.
>>341722329
Semantics matter when you are criticizing something.
You can't just go "All James Cameron movies have terrible filmwatch and therefor they are garbage" when filmwatch means absolutely nothing, it's not a valid criticism.
>>341721124
Many Western RPGs focus on providing puzzles or scenarios that adapt to whatever sort of character you are and offering them solutions suited to their strengths.
When Japan first started making RPGs they thought the genre was largely about the combat and have been creating single player MMO experiences for like 30 years now because of that.
I'm still not sure that any Japanese RPG devs know what RPG even stands for.
>>341722338
Tactical turn based is fun, but typical JRPG turn based games are antiquated menu simulators.
>>341722459
That's why we call them JRPGs, they are all the same andvery different from actual RPGs.
>>341722457
It is semantics, gameplay can be replaced with "combat", because that's what 95% of RPGs feature, or "game mechanics", or tons of other things, since you obviously know what's being referred to. You are being dumb and have no point.
>>341722689
>"gameplay" can be replaced with literally any part of the game you want
Boy this term sure has a meaning and a specific one at that!
>>341721917
>what is prose/style
>what is cinematography
>Holding all genres up to the same standard
This is always dumb, turn-based RPGs are fucking supposed to be menu-based, an actual valid criticism towards one would be a lack of depth, unbalance, difficulty curve, etc., but simply saying "hurr turns and menus are boring and outdated" is just stating an opinion
>>341722834
Like I said, pointless. You didn't even actually quote me you goon
>>341722968
>things can't be objectively outdated
yep the fact that you use a car instead of a horse carriage is purely subjective, saying that cars are superior to horse carriages in any way is merely an opinion
you dip
>>341723083
But people prefer to use a horse carriage sometimes, even if cars are superior, because people find them fun.
>>341721124
>>341723178
Who exactly says you can't have fun with something outdated you dip?
People still shoot bows because it's fun, but you wouldn't fucking use one to go to war because they are outdated
>>341723083
>implying cars are just updated carriages because they provide a similar utility
>implying you can objectively decide when something is outdated
outdated is a fucking buzzword, anything old you don't like is outdated
>>341721124
So it doesn't alienate retards. Don't worry though, RPGs make up for it with deep stuff that really makes you think like what stat you want to go up. It's hard.
Because an RPG, by nature, requires a layer of abstraction between the player and the character.
If the player has excessive and direct control over the character's actions, then the characters strengths and limitations becomes irrelevant and it ceases to be a role-playing game.
>>341723320
You can't compare war and transportation accurately to something done for leisure. People find throwing a ball fun, war HAS to be efficient and using "superior" tools.
I'm perfectly content with JRPG gameplay. WRPG gameplay on the other hand is atrocious. It's borderline unplayabe even with all the mods people install.
>>341723643
dumb weeb
>>341722025
fun is just a buzzword
>>341721124
Because they are too long. That's why they have casual boring shit gameplay and instead focus on shit like story and cinematics. Games with best gameplay are always very short, like rcade games.
>>341721124
>talesofvesperia.webm
>>341722079
That's the joke you fucking moron
>>341723643
>I enjoy cookie clicker and can't understand why people like actual RPGs
>>341723643
Agreed.
>>341721917
Sounds like someone does like to think too hard.
What even is an RPG these days? Action games are more fun and have better stories half the time, RPGs will have the same gameplay as them but worse, and a longer story, but that's it, no real difference. And you "play a role" in every fucking game.
What you're referring to as gameplay is literally just combat, which is just one aspect of everything an RPG needs to have.
Gameplay in RPGs is about using your stats and attributes to make decisions and resolve quests. This could take place in combat, dialog, stealth, or any other way that you can manage based on your character's strengths.
This is kind of difficult to pull off in a videogame, so vidya RPGs tend to be kind of limited in scope. In a tabletop game, you can pretty much do whatever you can imagine, and apply your character's stats to make it happen via dice rolls. In a videogame, the devs would have had to account for every possible way to complete a quest and support it. So RPGs in vidya tend to focus on certain gameplay elements and give you stats and skills to level up based on what kind of gameplay the game has.
Let's use Fallout: New Vegas as an example. FNV has combat, but it also has reams and reams of dialog for characters with any mixture of skills, SPECIAL, and faction alignments. You can complete many quests without firing a shot just by convincing NPCs to do things your way with your skills in dialog via "checks". You can also simply sneak your way through things, pay your way through them via bribes, or hack, lockpick, repair, and medicine your way through. Point is, there's a lot more to the gameplay than fighting, should you choose to do something other than fighting.
People tend to look at RPGs and go "that's not just like DMC, it sucks." The reality is that a good RPG needs to have more than just combat as a way to get things done. Combat is just one piece of the pie. So, naturally, it won't have as much focus on great combat as a game that's literally nothing but combat.
>>341724329
Stats. Anything relating to d&d stats is an rpg
>>341724642
But call of duty has stats behind its weapons and perks, which you choose yourself, and we don't call that an RPG.
>>341721124
because rpgs have become fucking memes.
>i like rpgs
>i want to make rpg
>what does make an rpg???
>elements check!NPCs check!Open world check! Quickload/save check!Healthbar check!Level system check!
>>341725158
Yeah, because basic features like "Quickload/save" "Healthbars", and "NPC's" are what makes something bland.
>>341725284
I think he's saying that people consider anything that has those elements to be an RPG, which isn't the case. So you get Character Progression Games and pseudo-RPG FPS that people consider to be RPGs. Also games that use RPG stats but only apply it to one aspect of gameplay, like Dark Souls. Has stats that affect what you can and can't do, but it only has anything to do with combat. Kind of an RPG, but not really. More like a slow action game with some RPG in it.
True RPGs really don't get made by big studios because they don't sell. Even The Witcher is really more of a CPG. That isn't an insult. An actual RPG goes kind of slowly and it's doubtful that it could have real-time gameplay.
>>341724519
One thing that sucks that approach though is that the critical path has to be solvable by every conceivable character, so the main story always ends up being less challenging than optional quests.
Haven't really seen a game that managed to get around that.
>>341725284
I think what anon meant is that every indie retard wants to name his game an RPG because it sounds more special.
I enjoy RPGs because it, as a genre, has a significantly more vibrant and enjoyable atmosphere when compared to other genres. The same reason I enjoy platformers.
Turn based RPGs are a lot of fun, plus I can actually see what I'm doing, as opposed to Skyrim, Dark Souls or Bloodborne, were everything is constantly dark as shit and riddled with the texture of wet mud.Really though, how do you guys see anything when you play? I have to turn up the brightness on my computer when watching videos/webms of any of those games.
>>341726862
that's not an RPG, that's weebshit.
>>341726220
Completely true. I've yet to see a studio be ballsy enough to put hard limits on the main quests' ability to be completed.
Of course, one solution to this is to simply have the "main" quest be the obligatory story quest that segue's the player out into the world, where the meat of the game is the side quests.
It would be refreshing, however, to see a main quest that's punishing and difficult to complete with any character. I'd also like to see RPGs actually make me choose rather than having some skills always be a magical "way out" that solve all your problems.
Kind of the way Charm was an instant-out in Mass Effect. It was the fucking deus ex machina option in dialog. Mass Effect wasn't much of an RPG, but they ripped what little hard decision making there was out of it when they implemented Charm options into every fucking "Critical" moment. It kind of robs the game of any weight in your decision making.
>>341721917
>Because "gameplay" is a buzzword that doesn't actually mean anything.
really going all out aren't ya?
>>341721124
Because you have to understand that computer RPG's evolved from tabletop games and not arcade games.
Muh story, muh stats, muh items
There's a lot of things that distract you from the core of the game, meaning that you don't really feel how bad the gameplay is.
>>341724885
Call of Duty also has guns and soldiers, does that make it a military simulator? A game can borrow elements from other genres but that doesn't necessarily change the core of the game.
