How do we fix kirby? the kirby games used to have some semblance of challenge (not hard but certainly not so easy they were boring )
it seems like now nintendo is trying to make snooze fests just incase one kid can't beat the game and its ruining good game design. Like the amount of health items every second in kirby planet robobot is ridiculous
>inb4 but true arena is challenging!
http://www.gengame.net/2012/09/nintendo-does-not-understand-the-appeal-of-challenge-in-mario-games/
>>341416210
I don't think Kirby's ever been that hard to be honest.
I'm not trying to be smug or anything, I've played most of the main series Kirby games and the only thing that was hard was finding all the crystal shards in 64, and that's because in that era, peddling strategy guides for ridiculous scavenger hunts was their equivalent of today's freemium.
100% on Air Ride was kind of tricky too but that barely counts as a Kirby game.
>>341416210
>used to have some semblance of challenge
no they didn't, aside from the final boss
>>341416210
>Dude I'll just take random screenshots to prove I'm right
>>341416446
kirby was never a hard game, but it certainly wasn't this boring.
go back and play dreamland 1-2/super star ultra then spend 10 minutes playing triple deluxe or robobot and you'll see what i mean.
its bad enough they gave kirby moon gravity physics and cut the game speed significantly since the 2d titles... and these complaints are coming from a die hard fan.to see what i mean about the gameplay being slowed down: use the wheel ability in superstar, then use it in triple deluxe...
>>341416210
yeah I guess # of enemies on screen is true, make sure the new games have environmental effects (wind making controlling one direction harder), and not being afraid to throw enemies directly at the player, like you'd see in an arcade game made to steal your quarters.
Still I only speak from experience with Superstar (snes), and would say thats only difficult for new gamers in general. playing the one on nes is a bit tough for me due to limited controls so perhaps looking at the oldest games would be good
>>341416545
Are you fucking retarded? Planet Robobot and triple deluxe has entire empty barren parts of levels with absolutely no enemy activity, in a platformer.
Eh, Kirby doesn't need fixing.
>>341416210
we need more games designed like amazing mirror, that game was downright cruel at times. enemies everywhere, having to explore, find treasure and maps.
and there hasnt been a kirby game of that style since ;-;
>>341416669
Not that anon but I'm now spoiled by the new games and can't return to the older ones. Mainly because pressing jump while in midair doesn't make you float in the original.
Name one challenging part in any kirby game
I've played them all and can't think of ONE
>>341416918
>encounter phan phan
>cell phone battery is dead
even the enemies attack slower and aren't as fast paced/brutal with their attacks as they were in superstar.
i never understood where this need to dumb down your brilliant gameplay and shittify it came from. its like every dev at nintendo just sucks now and have forgotten how to make games.
>>341416210
>look mom i made the thread again I just changed the image title
kill yourself
>>341416982
superstar fixed that.
superstar is truly the greatest kirby. the only thing they had to do to keep fans of the series invested and obtain new fans is make superstar 2. same physics just added moves/enemies/powerups/levels.
rip co-op helper system and any sort of fun multiplayer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy2l5BSBSL0
>this almost existed
>dat artstyle
>dat 4 player helper co-op
please kill me
So, the people making these threads are Sonyggers right?
I mean, we had such a nice kirby thread a while back.
Also OP you forgot to mention how there's more unavoidable environmental hazards in the game.
>>341416210
Sweet cherrypicking, OP.
>>341416984
the thing is this isn't about "hard parts". this is about the overall game design.
There is a reason why games like new super mario bros with their ridiculously easy level design aren't as beloved as mario 3 and the original... the overall game design has a difficulty curve where the games can be completed by anyone because they aren't hard while at the same time they aren't so easy you get absolutely no thrill from playing them.
when it comes to nintendo games there is a difference between easy and fun and easy but still not so easy that you are literally bored playing it when it comes to challenge. and newer nintendo games tend to be so simplified, hand holdy, and easy that they hit that boring/bad game design level
>>341417376
it isn't cherry picking. go beat superstar then triple deluxe and you will understand
>>341417549
>the thing is this isn't about "hard parts". this is about the overall game design.
You do realise that enemy placement doesn't mean that a game is easy or hard right?
After all Super Star is the shortest and easiest Kirby game to date but it's still fun.
>>341417605
I've beaten Super Star 100% at least 5 times in my life, Ultra twice, and Triple Deluxe again recently. You are very much cherry picking.
>>341417549
>There is a reason why games like new super mario bros with their ridiculously easy level design
You've never actually played a NSMB game have you except for 2 they get progressively harder.
I hate how kirby seems to get a freepass from criticism
these games have always been overwhelmingly boring for a large chunk of the playthrough. the only thing that breaks up the monotony is the puzzle rooms and the beautiful spritework and chiptune-and-chiptune inspired music of the later games, but now they're switching to humdrum models (protip: you don't want to copy anything about Crystal Shards) and some generic soulless compositions, while leaving the boring gameplay intact and reusing the more or less the same puzzles we've seen for over 25 years
Nostalgia is a hell of a drug, but it certainly wears off
>>341417549
NSMBU is harder and better than World. Luigi U is harder than SMB3.
>>341416210
>How do we fix kirby? the kirby games used to have some semblance of challenge
What are you talking about? Final area aside you can easily float your way to the end of the level in any game.
Also your picture is even dumber than the one that complains about Mario games always having the same first level.
>>341416789
>Barren levels
I honestly don't seem to recall that from Robobot, but with TD you might have a point. I find the newer games to be more frantic and wild then the older games though, with all the shit that's being thrown at you from the background.
>>341417830
So what you're saying is that you don't get why people like Kirby games.
Why are you even in the thread anon?
>>341416446
>I don't think Kirby's ever been that hard to be honest
It's not. People forget there was a time where Mario was considered too hard for people. Kirby was literally made to be a platformer for people that are bad at platforming. I mean it's a platformer where you can float forever.
What makes Kirby fun is how willing Hal is to mess around with Kirby. Do some neat thing and slowly change things in the main game. Like going from the powers in RTDL to Hypernova in Triple Deluxe to the robot suit in Planet Robobot.
Not only that but also doing something hardly any developer is willing to do and that is just throw Kirby into games that is weird and experimental. Like turning Kirby into a golf ball. Or fun racer with Air Ride. Or just a ball you guide with the stylist with Canvas Curse or Rainbow Curse.
Kirby has of yet been in a game that's actually bad. Maybe meh to some but never bad. And honestly that shows how much Hal and Nintendo really do care about the little pink being that murders everything around him because they stole his food.
>>341416446
>That one Crystal Shard in the Volcano that did not in fact require a red/brown power, but required an Ice Power.
Such bullshit. Fair enough it's use ice to shatter hot rock, but it completely goes against what the player was doing for the rest of the game with the colour coded rocks.
>>341418302
I feel like most developers have forgotten that part of video games recently. Now games are just cut from the cloth and are overly generic with very little standing out to do something crazy and interesting or even make a world that's literally impossible with the physics in our universe.
It's really a shame that things like that are in such low demand.
>>341418295
no, I get why people do, myself being one of them, but why they do is no longer being implemented into the old ones and people rarely acknowledge the flaws of the predecessors
I played Kirby's Adventure for the first time recently, and despite having played many other Kirby games before it it's by far my favorite.
>>341419367
Now it may be that I haven't had any sleep for just over two days but what in the flying fuck are you trying to say?
Give kirby his ability to mix powers back,with all the abilities that appeared so far
>Water+jet=jetski
>>341416210
>the kirby games used to have some semblance of challenge
no anon, you where just 8, playing a game for 8 year old
>>341416210
They had to make the easiest game series even easier
>>341419937
Sounds situational as fuck, unless it creates a tidal wave kirby rides on essentially acting like wheel but with water and can cool lava blocks.
>>341419615
People like kirby games because they had beautiful and charming sprites, memorable chiptunes, and fun puzzles that utilized kirby's powers, not because of the platforming or anything else.
However, the new games got rid of the sprites and the good music and is still using the same old puzzles that we've seen a million times before with very few new ones or ways to utilize old ones
It's tiring and that's why new kirby games don't feel quite right to people, not because of some drastic drop in the platforming or difficulty
not sure how you couldn't figure it out but w/e
Why is it that anti-nintendo fans can articulate arguments while fanboys just yell "kill yourself" "shitposter" "bait" or whatever words pop in their mind?
>>341420275
>The new games get rid of the good music
Chiptunefag detected
https://youtu.be/n4op6S2MHHo
https://youtu.be/ocVqHhVU3FU
https://youtu.be/EBfz1Edo9-Q
>>341418446
You think that one was bad, what about the one where you have to wall climb an enormous wall as Rick the Hamster. Who you turn into by using rock+cutter in a water level, the monster you turn into is randomly, Rick is hideously immobile otherwise, and never ever does the game tell you that you can climb walls with him. And it's the most carpal-tunnel-inducing bit of the whole game. Prima must've paid 'em good money for that one.
That said, I miss the double power gimmick. That shit was too cool to not re-use outside of the "why the fuck is everything Banjo Kazooie" era.
>>341420061
Maybe they could design the game to make you think what fusion would be apropriate for certain situations,you would use the jet ski for water/lava sections,use directionable projectiles against flying enemies etcplus i like mixing the abilities,the curiosity of what will come out makes it even better
>>341420606
I actually liked Banjo Kazooie
>>341420507
That one's annoying. Rick had that ability in Dreamland 3 didn't he? Shame that if you haven't played that or forgot it would be completely left field. At least there's a green/brown block to indicate you need Cutter/Rock so you can at least trial and error from there, but it's still annoying.
>>341420606
Combining powers with partners was cool too.
>>341420275
>charm
Don't even reply after this because you have no argument here outside of your own personal opinion. Especially since I think it was Moonstruck Blossom? was voted one of the best video game music pieces in japan a while back. Or something like that the details are fuzzy.
In any case, people clearly still find that "charm" in Kirby games that you have apparently lost when it comes to the music as for the world most of the clever design has gone into hidden areas, hazards as well as visual effects.
I don't think you thought out this post properly.
>not sure how you couldn't figure it out but w/e
>but why they do is no longer being implemented into the old ones and people rarely acknowledge the flaws of the predecessors
This part of your post made no sense at all.
>>341420501
you're kidding yourself if you think you'll be able to hum these tunes a year from now, unlike songs like Green Greens or the invincibility theme or Gourmet Race or the meta knights theme
I agree OP
Kirby has never been hard but RtDL and TD were literal linear cakewalks.
Go back to amazing mirror/squeak squad style gameplay and design phiolosphy
>>341416261
>posts Nintendo's opinion when Kirby games are developed by HAL
>>341421150
>implying Squeak Squad and Amazing mirror are even remotely alike
You have either only played one or neither of these games. Either way SS was considerably more linear than RtDL and TD.
>>341420934
meant the new ones so I guess, yeah it didn't make sense so that's on me
but of course it's subjective, and we're arguing this as a matter of taste. so what if people still find a charm in the boring models and unmemorable tracks, there are people who are still watching spongebob and the simpsons and eating up sonic turds and unironically waiting for Kevin Smith's next movie. I want you to sincerely think about whether or not the music is going to be in your head by the time the next new kirby rolls out.
And the clever design has always been in hidden areas and puzzles, I 100%'d Triple Deluxe and honestly can't remember a single puzzle that was brand spanking new and clever
>>341421027
>unlike songs like Green Greens or the invincibility theme or Gourmet Race or the meta knights theme
Well duh, they're featured in practically every game as well as Smash. There's no way we could forget them if we tried because they're everywhere.
But tell me this, how many people remember Galactic Nova, Nightmare's boss theme or even Zero's theme?
They're great music but only people like us remember because we live and breathe video games.
Whoever decided that quality should be determined by how memorable it is was fucking retarded.
>>341421858
>I want you to sincerely think about whether or not the music is going to be in your head by the time the next new kirby rolls out.
see >>341422079
You need to read this twice.
>>341422152
Also good old age and circumstances are a factor in memorability too.
I remember as a kid that Puggsy used to creep me out and I hated the music and I know exactly how the music for the first stage goes. That doesn't make it good.
>>341420695
Overpraised Mario 64 Clone?
>>341421428
Squeak Squad was the shit.
>>341420695
I did as a kid but in retrospect I hate the general level design it and just about every other N64 platformer had. Every single game was an enormous scavenger hunt with shit hidden so weirdly that there was no way in hell you were beating it without a strategy guide.
My dad always asked me why I wanted to cheat at video games as a kid. "Doesn't that ruin the whole fun?" Well, it would, if you couldn't use cheats to do cool shit you normally couldn't, or find those stupid dumb trinkets they hid all over so you could actually see the rest of the game. God dammit.
>>341420905
The funny thing is with regard to Rick, I really wanted to play Kirby's Dream Land 2 and 3 as a kid. Well after they were released mind you, I saw them for like $15 at a used video game store (this was like, mid-late N64 era for reference) and my mom wouldn't let me get 'em. And then sold my entire collection without so much as asking me a decade later. :(
>>341422538
That was pretty much the formula for a 3D platformer that gen. You'd even see it on Playstation and whatever else tried to compete.
>>341422772
Oh I'm well aware, and I fucking hated it. That's actually part of why liked arcade games so much as a kid, they might've had a lot of bullshit that you couldn't see coming, but at least you could play the whole game without a $20-$30 strategy guide, and it was action-packed the whole way through. And way more immersive I guess.
>>341422953
Yeah it did get a bit oversaturated.
Personally between Banjo and Mario you've literally played every variation out there at the time.
Don't worry, Metaknight's game mode fixes this. It's all about going fast and boy can you go fast, with his varied moveset it's more intense that Kirby's ever been before.
You won't actually die but speedrunning is more hardcore than survival anyway.
>>341423274
>you can play as meta knight and it's not just a tacked-on mode
>>341421027
Tell you what'll always stay with me?
Haltman's voice when he fires the laser.
As well as Sectonia's laugh when she teleports about
Kirby is one of the few Nintendo franchises that isn't fucked up beyond belief. Quit bitching.
>>341420275
>People like kirby games because they had beautiful and charming sprites, memorable chiptunes, and fun puzzles
>not because of the platforming or anything else
Congratulations, you couldn't be anymore if you tried.
>>341423583
I can only think of one that's been fucked up beyond belief and that's Metroid.
The rest are either the same, better or died on a high note.
>>341423738
Mainline Pokemon is getting fucked pretty hard, but I guess that's compensated by the Mystery Dungeon series which is merely being raped in reviews and sales.
>>341423738
Hi, OP. Your opinion is still shit.
>>341423829
PMD has always gotten bad reviews. But I feel they sell well enough. I was just hoping that the last one before Super didn't just kill it off.
>>341423829
>Mainline Pokemon is getting fucked pretty hard
Eh, not really. I'd say that falls under "the same" because they haven't drastically altered anything. Even mega evolution is just glorified formes by a different name.
I have to say that /vp/ overstates it's "problem" to a hilarious degree though.
I suppose you could look at it from the perspective of the competitive cirlces and what not but you have to realise that GF doesn't particularly care about them.
>>341423879
How did you even reach that conclusion?
>>341421027
I've been humming Moonlight Blossom for about a year to myself, and I'm sure I'll remember tunes from Robobot. Let go of your nostalgia.
>>341423486
New Kirby games really have godlike sound design. Sectonia's laughter is amazing.
I've only played the first kirby gameboy game, TD and Robobot.
I'm going to play Super Star Ultra and Return to Dreamland but what else feels like Kirby essentials? Amazing Mirror?
Feels like I'm missing out on something when I meet some older bosses in True Arena because I havn't seen them in their original game
>>341416210
Bring back ability combining.
Personally I've always preferred 2D Kirby to 3D, but Crystal Shards was a 3D Kirby and it wasn't boring.
Though it's been so long since I played it I can't exactly remember what made it different enough from modern Kirby games to not be boring.
The problem is the FOV in modern kirby.
>>341424605
Amazing Mirror
SSU
Dreamland 3
Canvas Curse
Kirby's Adventure or it's remake
I feel like I'm forgetting one.
>>341424932
Nightmare in Dreamland?
>>341424397
>Sectonia's laughter is amazing
It only took them 25 years to properly utilize Kirby's voice actress.
>>341425126
That's a remake of Adventure anon.
>>341421027
I haven't played the 3ds kirby games yet but I ocasionally still find myself humming this song from the kirby returns to dreamland at least
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZBStYy7oSg
>>341425237
Oh. I thought Return To Dreamland was. As I said I've only finished 3 kirby games
>>341425223
But she first voiced Kirby 1999
>>341425404
Fair enough, anyway those are the top tier games (that I can remember or have played)
The rest aren't bad by any means but they don't stack up to those.
Take a look at them when you're done with these though because they're still fun as fuck.
>>341425587
I will. Thanks anon
>>341423829
I always viewed Pokemon as experimental but mostly because they put Pokemon in every type of game genre under the sun.
As for the mainline games they tend to give each Gen a nice breathing room and to fill it they just remake older games for the newer systems. You can easily only play the newest generations and a few of the side games and you will be fine with not buying a new Pokemon game every year.
I couldnt finish Triple Deluxe it was so slow and boring.
