Widow and Mcree are getting nerfed by the end of the week.
I can't wait for the tears from scrubs who can't play without a crutch
>>341239365
Bastion tho
>>341239365
Can't wait for the D.Va buff. I always liked rocket-punching people then shooting them in the face
As someone who was in the beta i can attest to them doing frequent patches. I can also attest that every nerf/buff they did was always complete overkill and either completely gutted the character or made them ridiculously OP, and they always had to go back and do another shot at it. The only character they didn't give another sweep was Zenyatta which is why he's still trash.
This does not bode well for McCree and Widowmaker. I'm sure shitters will rejoice and be happy, but people who actually understand the game will be surprised to find out these nerfs will probably be overkill and ruin the characters for a while.
But hey, let's hope maybe they're actually small little adjustments and blizzard learned their lesson from the beta.
>>341239365
>(hopefully)
you wont get anything this week cuck.
>>341239504
stop playing sub 20s
>>341239707
If only shooting them did anything with D.Va
>>341239365
Whats does Blizzard say about the dogshit tickrate and shit tier hit boxes? Why not fix this broken shit?
>>341239812
Coming from someone that played WoW for years, nope that's exactly how Blizzard balances. They always overdo it
>>341239812
I was also in the closed beta and that's exactly why the game ended up so well balanced (outside of a few heroes). Their technique was to push something too far in one direction so they had a very clear idea of where the middle ground should be, that way they would nerf something too hard then go back and give it a slight re-buff into a balanced state. The only real issue is that they ended the beta without ever re-buffing Zen and never addressed the overpoweredness of Tracer.
It's a great way to do things instead of doing constant little ticky tack changes that never amount to anything, unfortunately they probably can't do that now in retail because shitters would lose their minds at the process.
How about they fix the 20 tickrate first? It's disgraceful.
>>341239812
Blizzard can't grasp balance.
They constantly struggle with the idea that COMBINATIONS of variables produce over powered or under powered character/classes.
For example, they see that macree is too good. To everyone playing it's obvious that his fan need to have drop off, this would make him a close range character, who can still blow people up in close range, and with his stun, and his roll, he'll be the quintessential close-range dps. Which is perfectly acceptable.
Blizzard doesn't see this. Blizzard will just nerf everything.
His stun won't stun anymore, it'll slow or some shit,
His roll will have an absurd cooldown
His fan will be slower have a longer CD and have damage falloff
Then they'll nerf his damage just to make sure on top of all that.
This is how blizzard operates.
>>341240008
Because Hanzo player need a compensation for his shittiness. Even even with this he is still an aweful character.
>>341240201
its not only hanzo literally every fucking hero has these problems.
>>341239707
>>341239916
The problem with D. Va is that she was completely overnerfed, as >>341239812 was saying. When she first appeared in the open beta last November, she was a complete monster that needed to be reined in, only they subsequently made her borderline useless.
>>341240052
>The overpoweredness of tracer
>run up to a mercy who is currently healing someone.
>unload full tracer clip into her
>the mercy turns around
>looks at you
>begins slapping you with her staff
>one hit takes off 2/3rd of your hp so you need to blow your CD to escape from this powerhouse offensive mercy.
>She shoots you with her gun twice killing you once you pop out of your time bubble.
>>341240194
Actually it's not, they managed to balance things in the beta quite well, I'll call them out on not being able to balance any of their other games, ever, but they did a really good job with OW.
Probably needed another month of balance passes in the beta though, iron out tracer and fix zen. There weren't enough mainers in the beta for McCree and Widow to show their strengths unfortunately.
They need to tweak bunch of shit. Mei freeze should take longer or possibly freeze on a hp percentage (tanks take longer to freeze for example). Could up dmg of her attack to compensate. She isnt OP. Just annoying to lose control of character if she touches you once.
Bastion should have smaller magazine in turret mode and remember the bullet count when swapping stances. Healing only in recon mode. Larger spread on turret after set distance. Improve his recon to compensate and round him out better.
Widow needs smaller magazine and longer charge time. Maybe global call for ult and longer charge on ult.
Mccree just needs lower fan dmg and spread or dmg drop off on his pistol. Hes close range master. Shouldnt be able to snipe level length with the pistol for 2 hit kills.
Dont know what to do with dva. She does no dmg. Not great tank. Something needs tweaking. Maybe move faster while firing. Would need testing.
Lucio needs to be less good and all encompassing. Pretty much free win if your team.has one and they dont. Maybe zenyatta hp?
Everyone else is pretty good spot. Bastion and mei dont need tweaks but they are not fun to play against in any way.
>>341240450
>They managed to balance things in the beta quite well....
>Release zen
>best hero in the entire game
>Nerf so badly hes now the worst hero in the entire game
>Lucio is looking slightly weak...
>Lucio is now 2 per team sometimes 3 lucio lmao literally the best hero in the game
>D.va is killing supports too quickly...
>nerf damage so badly that she can't hurt anyone at all
>Macree is just too good
>buff him again
>Tracer/bastion/Mei/Roadhog still so bad an unplayable averaging 30% winratios if your team has the misfortune of picking one of these heros.
Anon... its okay that you didn't play the beta, you don't have to pretend.
>>341239365
>whining about widow and mcree
>calling others scrubs
delete this thread you dickless scrub
>>341240418
>melee does 30 damage
>her pistol does 20 damage on bodyshots, 40 on headshots
>shots fire every half second or so
You have little reason to lose to a Mercy.
t. Mercy main
>>341239365
What you're doing by making this thread is the exact definition of what a scrub would do.
post >yfw D.Va is your best tank
>>341240194
That's really spot on for how they handle heroes of the storm. I played HoTS for a bit and that is exactly how they did things, it was baffling. For example they did a big overhaul to the hero Rehgar and he suddenly became too strong. His biggest problem being that his lightning shield did too much damage.
So what did blizzard do? They nerfed one of the talents that gave lightning shield extra damage. Okay, fine. It didn't seem to be enough for them though, so next patch they went back and nerfed literally EVERY talent for lightning shield. They nerfed every single one which obviously resulted in a massive overkill of a nerf. It was so dumb.
Not sure how they can be so dumb with that kind of shit, if something is OP you just do a single nerf to it, you don't nerf 3 different parts of the ability all at once, that's just retarded.
>>341240943
>he thinks D.Va is getting buffed this week
They said multiple times they are not ready to buff D.Va yet.
>>341240704
>Release zen
>best hero in the entire game
>Nerf so badly hes now the worst hero in the entire game
They nerfed zen because of Genji, his orbs used to be permanent so every game devolved into Genjix2 and Zenx2 and it wasn't fun at all. They re-buffed Genji but never got around to fixing Zen.
>Lucio is looking slightly weak...
>Lucio is now 2 per team sometimes 3 lucio lmao literally the best hero in the game
Lucio actually got nerfed hard in the closed beta, he used to do a LOT more damage and was basically the 1v1 king. In pubs he is only top tier on koth while being utterly useless on defense and only useful in specific offensive setups.
>Macree is just too good
>buff him again
They nerfed him many times in the beta, gave him damage dropoff and near the very end of beta they increased the delay between firing fans.
>Tracer/bastion/Mei/Roadhog still so bad an unplayable averaging 30% winratios if your team has the misfortune of picking one of these heros.
Tracer was the single most overpowered hero in the beta and single handedly defined the games meta, every single competitive game saw 2xtracer, 2xlucio, and 2xwinston on every single koth round. Mei got buffed by a lot, Roadhog got slightly fucked over with the hook distance change, and Bastion has always either been insanely overpowered or just outright too easy.Be thankful you're not playing against the shield version of Bastion you shitter.
>>341241090
I don't care about buffs to her, I really like playing her.Granted I'm sub 20 because I can't play a lot
>>341240704
You missed out my favorite one from the beta.
>shitters were complaining about roadhog, tracer, and genji getting off melee hits easily and raping them
>better nerf all melee damage across the board from 50 to 30 which severely hurt good players who were aware of positioning and could get in close for punches whenever possible on normal characters
>also resulted in a nerf to d.va's already shit damage to even worse because one of her only ways of dealing damage was to fly into people and punch them
I'm still pissed about that change. I used to get so many kills from melee attacks cause bad players would jump around me thinking they were slick but i would just do quick turns and punch them out of the air. Now melee damage barely even tickles people and feels almost pointless.
>>341241474
That was a wonderful change, it was absolutely retarded to let Tracer and Genji get easy 1 shot kill combos. It made no sense any way you look at it to let all heroes have 50 damage melee strikes, completely retarded.
>>341239365
They're only nerfing his fan damage. He'll still instagib anyone that isnt a tank.
>>341239365
Widow and McCree need obvious nerfing.
Mei needs nerfing too, her freezing is too fast. Should at least vary from character to character, Reinhardt shouldn't freeze as fast as Tracer for instance.
Pharah needs an HP buff and maybe a little splash damage buff. HP needs to be up to 250 at least, do armor if you gotta.
D. Va needs a buff because her head hitbox is a joke and she can't tank or do damage so she's worthless "tank."
Bastion will probably get a nerf with how much hate he gets, Blizzard will cave to public outcry despite Bastion being the easiest hero to counter.
>>341240559
Widow does have a global call for her ult just like everybody else.
It's just really quiet and in French. If they upped the volume on it by default it may be fine, but most people think she doesn't call out her ulti, which is false.
>>341242039
>bastion
>getting nerfed
Yeah I'm sure the 900 replies of the Overwatch twitter consisting of "switch to X heroes, Overwatch's key mechanic is hero switching" were just for show.
He needs a rework, not a nerf or a buff. He absolutetly destroys bad players, but against semi-decent players, or dare I say, competitive enviroment, he's unplayable. Literally just a pub destroyer.
>>341242293
You have to be close to her to hear it. The trouble is, you're almost never close to a Widow
>>341242293
It's not global, it only plays to people who are within a very short range of her and even then it's still quiet.
>>341239365
Can't fucking wait for the widow nerf. Most snipers have some downside or handicap they have to work around, but not her. Should have just given her a bolt action and than most of her problems would be solved.
>>341239504
He needs buffs, but I think his kit is just too bad to do anything but punish retards. Too bad because I like Bastion.
>>341239365
>This balance problem has been a thing prior to launch for literal months
>Now address it post launch
What a bunch of idiots. Can't wait for them to decimate Mcree, and love tap widowmaker like they did last time.
>>341240008
because it was built with consoles in mind
>>341239365
Play shitty game get shitty results
>>341242804
>>341239504
for some reason i've always wanted bastion to be way more tanky with a bit of a DPS hit. like give him
>increase hp from 300 to 450 hp
>decrease turret form dps from 330 to 250
>decrease recon form magazine size from 20 to 15 as well
now he's an area denial hero that doesnt blow up the instant someone sneezes on him, and recon form is actually worth using
>>341239365
>Widow and Mcree are getting nerfed by the end of the week.
Can anyone actual argue against the nerfs? Other than "get good"
just dodge his stun
>>341243998
>just dodge his stun :^)
>>341242315
Except on Anubis, but that's because Anubis is literally the worst map in the game.
>2x Bastion 2x Mercy Reinhardt and Roadhog
>Meme for 6 minutes
>>341242039
>Pharah needing a buff
>At all
Nigga she is literally easy mode. No one can be assed to try and shoot at her when she's flying. 60% of the projectiles can't even reach her. You don't even need to fucking aim, just fire in random directions and the splash damage will take care of the rest.
>>341244256
Of course, no map can compare toNepal
>implying widow is getting nerfed
Blizzard is fucking retarded, they built her for consoles and probably have their statistics in mind.
>>341244696
They've already said both that she's getting nerfed and that PC/consoles will be balanced separately.
>>341244696
Blizzard has stated consoles and PC have separate balance patches
>>341242039
>Bastion being the easiest hero to counter
Okay. I've recently had a pub game on Temple of Anubis with Reinhardt, 2x Bastion, Torbjörn and Widowmaker on defense situated on the first ridge right behind the first chokepoint. We, the attackers, had literally zero kills and could not move past the chokepoint. I've tried bouncing grenades as junkrat, found no angle that works. Pharah gets shred instantly. Our own Reinhardt melted like nothing when trying to shield. What's the counter supposed to be? I'm not trying to be cynical, I seriously want to know.
>>341243998
>>341244162
Reminder McRee is intended to counter both Tracer and Genji.
>>341244957
Reaper tp into left room then over and behind?
>>341244957
I've encountered those too and I'm a bit lost.
I thought about it and it would be hard in a pub game but getting a Reinhardt to put up a shield and using one or two junkrants and maybe a pharah. Even getting a Reaper or Tracer behind their lines as a distraction. It requires teamwork which you won't get in a pub. Genji might work too with reflect.
The map is honestly broken and needs a path along the side. It's the only map where you encounter a choke that bad, even the choke on Volskaya isn't that bad.
>>341245338
it's not good game design to first make 2 very elusive characters and then go "shit no one in our casual ass audience can hit these guys" and then add a hero that has an "i win" button designed for the sole purpose of instantly ending these guys' existence.
blizz doesn't know how to balance or design heroes beyond the surface level, so you get these situations where tracer stomps the enemy backline on her own without taking a single point of damage, but then she accidentally runs into mccree and instantly dies. that's not good game design. no one is having fun in that situation or really being challenged. it's just preordained encounters playing out.
mccrees flashbang shouldn't be so stupid against most of the roster
tracer shouldn't be both incredibly elusive and deal a billion damage
i think genji is mostly fine, he actually stomps most dogshit mccrees
>>341239812
>>341240052
>>341240414
Can you guys tell me what made D.Va so good when she first came out? I'm having a hard time imagining it.
>>341245338
but why is he allowed to do 450 dmg with fan to a tank
>>341244817
All I've seen is that she's on their radar. Did they actually guarantee a nerf?
>>341245872
That's where he's being nerfed.
>>341246004
Yes, her and McCree are confirmed nerfed this week.
>>341245778
>>341244957
You shoot the shield via corner peeking or you simply switch to mei and wall spam them. With 6 players on your team it's not difficult to exploit the 3 paths around that chokepoint and the ability to fly over the wall on the left side.
>>341246119
With 6 players on your team it isn't, but every player in pubs is on a seperate team.:^)
>>341246004
http://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20745045439?page=2#post-30
>>341239365
I'm seriously interested in what they could nerf about widow without making her absolute dogshit useless - except for her firerate which isn't the problem in competitive play.
>>341246407
It can easily be done by global warning of her ult, longer charge time and lower body shot damage.
>>341246407
They need to change it so she cant rely entirely on bodyshots to kill 90% of the cast since her double tap can kill anyone with 200 health.
She should be doing 50 damage bodyshots no matter the charge and the charge increases her headshot multiplier to x6 at 100%
>>341240559
As a Zenyatta main, i canattest that Zenyatta doesn;t needmore hp.
All zenyatta needs is to move a little faster. You get that, he;s perfect.
>>341246492
Ergo making her useless.
She's already a weak sniper that can only onehit with headshots and only on certain targets. There are heroes with shields, tanks and high mobility in the game. Nerfing her ability to deal damage (even if slowy) will make her even more toxic for her whole team because she can't cap spots or stay at the payload.
Everyone will still pick her and be even more useless with her.
>>341246649
50 damage is a bit over kill.
100 damage body shot AND roughly double her charge up weapon rate.
>>341246737
>She's already a weak sniper
???????????????
???
??? ?????????????
>>341246737
>she is already a weak sniper
She is literally the most overpowered sniper in gaming.
Remove McCree's reload from his roll and give it I-frames or speed boost or some shit that every other offense character has.
He can still kill low to medium HP people in close range but he can no longer melt tanks or have a get out of jail free card with his roll reload.
>>341246881
>>341246850
Have you ever played other shooters? She isn't even instagib on upper body shots.
>>341245548
>torbjorn is probably gaurding that room.
>>341246737
>She's already a weak sniper
Hanzo is a guy dude
But to be serious
>Has a sniper that is close to AWP levels of damage
>Has an AR for close-to-midrange engagement if her grappling hook is on CD and it also does decent damage
>Has a mine that tells her if someone wants to flank her
>Weak
>>341247019
Reaper chews through Tor and her turret.
>>341244957
Eat shit, ubermeme
>>341246119
Corner peeking got me killed instantly as junkrat. Mei walls might be a """cool""" idea though. Does anyone know how long they hold up against bastion fire?
>>341246962
????????????????????????????
>>341246962
Have you played overwatch you shitter
>>341239365
mccree is still going to destroy everyone who isn't a tank
>>341247038
>Has a sniper that is close to AWP levels of damage
No it really isn't, it's more of a scout level.
>Has an AR for close-to-midrange engagement if her grappling hook is on CD and it also does decent damage
If you're using it for more then finishing enemies off you're a bad widow. Nobody would miss it if they just remove it entirely.
>Has a mine that tells her if someone wants to flank her
Which fucking blinks like a stupid LED-Toy.
>>341239365
>met a total dudebro recently who only plays Widow
>he sucks shit at every class, can't beat Winston as Widow, has no idea how to use mine or hook to avoid flanks, and generally can't aim
>smug superiority every game he is carrie in
>raging idiocy when he isn't carried
>now he must truly git gud
Eat shit, Jake.
>>341246962
I can only believe you say this because you play Widowmaker. Usually people who choose to see past something being overpowered is the people who play them.
>>341247237
Your sub 10 level is showing.
>>341246737
>She's already a weak sniper
She's probably the most broken sniper of any competitive FPS released in the past decade.
>>341247237
>Which fucking blinks like a stupid LED-Toy.
I actually put it along the doorframes or just around corners so it forces it to trigger when it's too late to get away from it.
>>341247340
>>341247309
>>341247145
You should probably go back to hearthstone, learn to deal with onehit snipers - widow isn't one. OW already gives you enough abilities to counter her.
>>341240559
>>341246734
I think Zen could use some sort of extra mobility option.
Given the tranquil fucker can hover, I think he could use a moonjump. Imagine being able to jump several times higher than he currently can for as long as he holds space. If he continues to hold it, he'll drift slowly down like Mercy.
Then combine that with his 5x Orb attack and you have a guy who can pop up from unexpected angles and show Pharah how it's done.
>>341247038
>Has an AR for close-to-midrange engagement if her grappling hook is on CD and it also does decent damage
The lack of hard counters in the game is the worst thing about it. The only hard counters are McCree and widow
If someone gets close to a Widow or Hanzo they should easily be able to defeat them but Winston actually loses against Widow at close range if she can get one bodyshot on him before he gets close because of how strong her assault rifle is. While Hanzo can fight everyone by randomly spinning in circles and getting headshots with his massive hitboxes and autoaim.
>>341247237
?̸̸̵̸͈̯̝̱̲̮͈̰̹̞̼̖̭͕̠̯̏͂̌͛ͬ͒ͧ̆̋̅ͥ̎ͦͤ͋ͥͅ?̞̞̝̹̘̋̇ͭ̏ͦͪͪͨͫ̈́͋̀ͅ?̇ͫͯ̇҉̞̙̞̯͇̱̪̰͖̘?̵̢͍̣̭̞̭͕̮̤͊ͣ͋ͩ͛ͫͥ͊̌͊͂͆̉̎̅?̴̣͇͖͓̹̰̟͉̱̱̟̼̪̘͎̦̱͗̾̆ͯ͗ͨͯ͋̒̇̊ͮͩ̚͢͟ͅͅ?̸̸̬̩͓̟̱̗̗̠̻̪̎̆ͩ͆̂̔̎ͬ͋̎̓́͋͊ͮ̒?̶̢̢̜̠̺͙͚͈͙̺̪̟̱̫̺̋͐̍ͫͫ̈̄ͩ̍̈̋̀͝?̷̨̱̬̤̠͙̣̳͓̣̫̣̪͕̞͕ͮ̈̽̋̔̚͘͝?̮̲͙̞͕͎̫͚͚͙̩̜̱̺ͣ̍̈́ͥͥ̆͛̔ͣ̏͗͆̌͂ͬ̚̚͢͡?̵̴̶̨̲̬̞͔͓͈̉̈́̅̍̑̓ͫ̔̏̒̆̿ͧ͆͘?̨̛ͫͨ̏̎̓ͥ̆ͬ̒̏͑͗͌ͫͪ̇̚͜҉̟̠̥̮ͅ?̓̄ͦ͂̓͗̆͂̌ͭͤ̏ͬͨ̈͂̔ͮ́́̚҉̟̣͍͖̲̱̟͈͓̯͘?̵̧͚̬̦̯̻̹͎̦̦̤̣̹̟̩͚̪̹̰̥͒̉̂ͫ͊̔̇̽̂ͨͮͤ̂ͫ̚͡?̶̢̼̬̺̭̳̝͓̻̤̠̟̝̞͙̯̭̱̠̣̇ͨ͗̓̽̊̆̈̋ͤ͐̀͌ͪͪ̽̆?̷̢̧̧͙͕̟͖̳͕̲̺̻̙͊̏̋̊̈́̈́ͨ̽ͭ͊̉ͩͣ́̔̌̈́͠ͅͅ?̷̸̧̛̱̤̙͙͒ͬ͆̉ͨ͋ͩͣ̽̔͋ͮ́̚
ͥ͛̔͗̉̾ͯ̽ͣ̾͏͡҉̖͔͎͈͇̻̳͎̙̗̺̗̘̬̲
̵̨̲͇͖̯̬͎̤̟̬̗̱̞̤̲̦̮͉̀̏͗̅ͥ̏̓̕͝?̜̫̜̲̭̳͇̝͓̯̙̭̱͎̑͊̔͒̒͊̽̇̓̈́̿ͪ̊́̚͘͜͠͞?̵̭̬̫̺̱̪̟͖̞̯̙͉͇̞̏ͨͨ͛ͨ̀́̀?̧̨ͧ͂̐̑̀҉̱̦͙̼̳͓̦̠͔̺̞̺̤͔̺̦?̛ͧ̌̄̾̀̈̂̋͒̽ͪ̊ͬ̈̋҉̵̤̫͕̞̞̝̼̤͔̙̫͔̺̥͖̫̥̳̀?̢̝̱̱͕̲̝̲͗͐̐̊̓ͬͭ͂ͨͩ̔̍͌̾̂̄́̎́͟͝͞?̟͉͚̭̯̪̭͎̖̼͈̎͑̄̎͛ͨ̽ͮ̃ͨͬ̔̋́͡ͅͅ?̵͎̼̦͚̻̰̙̪͙̼̻̖͙̽́ͦ̔͛͒͗̎͢͠?͎̝̦̻̭̪̟̹̬̣̮̮͛̀̔̌̀͝?̴̣̦̻̯̩͕̥͎͎̹̫̖̈̍̎̃ͮͨ̚̚͘͘͝?̴̷̰̥̦̪̘̗̌̽̾́̑͝
>>341247237
Her damage is absolute bullshit
>is supposed to be countered by Winston
>she can easily turn around and shoot twice and kill Winston before he can kill her
A good Widowmaker has only 1 counter, another Widowmaker and that is it.
>>341246962
In other shooters the sniper doesn't have a hook to escape easy, the health of a frontline hero, poison mines that do damage and tell you where people are and in other games snipers dont have a SMG that instantly transform back and fort between a automatic sniper and SMG.
Reducer her health to 150 and increase the time to recharge to full and reduce the ammo she has before reloading.
Pretty sure they said mcree nerf is just so he can't right click tanks anymore, but he's still able to kill squishies
Will just be a minor right click dmg loss
>>341247490
Maybe you should play more than 20 games.
>>341247608
Other shooters don't have tanks, flankers, mobility abilities, ultimates and obviously the casual blizzard crowd.
>>341247637
winston will be able to hard counter MC Cree very easy.
I hope widow gets nerfed into the ground.
>>341247517
Okay, I need to know what's going on in that pic. It doesn't make sense to me. It's obviously in the file name but I don't understand the orange line and why that's happening.
>>341247490
Looks like we found the widow player.
She is dead fucking easy to use, not only because of the shit tick rate and headshot hitboxes the size of the moon, but also because of her absurd charge rate and mobility. You can gib tanks in less than a second with her.
There are no characters in the game more braindead to play than Widow, with the possible exception of McCree.
>>341247637
That's fine, though, the most BS thing about McCree is that he can solo tanks in my opinion.
I'd remove the reload from the roll though, too.
>>341247709
Widow easily 1-shots almost all of the things you just listed. Are you ready to bullshit some more about the shit people you play with?
Can someone fucking tell me how the fuck D.VA was so OP in the beta to have this kind of iteration of her now?
>>341247709
You have a wallhack wtf you even want more?You can literally see flankers and your venom mine can help you to see if they are coming to flank you.
Please give a 1 good reason why a sniper class should have the same health as a frontline hero?
>>341247637
I'm okay with this
Not sure how they'd nerf widow, her attack speed is the most annoying thing
>>341247803
I don't know much about her in the beta, but it seems like her biggest problems is her ass damage, how slow she is when shooting and how long it takes for her ult to go off.
>>341247728
the orange line is a particle effect on Hanzos arrow. the arrow turns mid air to hit the tracer
>>341247068
sure. but when you spawn in, torb is going to see your image materialize and line up a headshot.
I actually don't think McCree is as broken as everyone states. He's good but a wrong nerf would render him completely unplayable. I think a bit of reduced damage on fan the hammer will be fine.
Widowmaker is actually legitimate cancer though. He dominance at long range is completely unparalleled. The thing that really kills me about Widow is that the only really counterpick to a dominant Widow is...well Widow. She's also not weak enough at close or midrange to make her absurd long distance play fair.
>>341247918
We can argue semantics all day, what if you had ult? What is Tor had ult? What if Tor had someone behind him? Can't answer all the hypotheticals.
>>341247861
>slows down during firing
>big ass spread
>biggest damage faloff in the game
Now, this wouldn't be an issue, but...
>head hitbox is the biggest in the game
Who the fuck thought it was a good idea to make the ENTIRE FUCKING COCKPIT a headshot hitbox?
Even if you go in to shred people up close (because that's how you use her confetti launchers), you get destroyed because every hit they do to you is critical.
>>341247910
Holy shit, seriously? So his fucking arrows ACTUALLY change direction mid-flight? That's some fucking horse shit right there.
>>341247984
this is exactly why I said that she needs to have 150 health and reduced magazine size.
>>341247984
McCree really does need some nerfs, and I say this as a McCree player. Nerf how big flashbangs explosion radius is, reloading on roll and fans the hammers damage and he will he completely fine.
>>341247984
>start playing mccree to see what the fuss is about
>wow this left click is pretty good
>kill tons of people with left click headshots
>get into a close fight
>somehow actually fuck up the flashbang + fan combo multiple times, especially against other mccrees
>the same mccrees cant touch me at midrange while i'm just popping them in the head with my somewhat ok hitscan aiming skills
i'm like a reverse mccree shitter i guess
>>341247858
People who are good at Widowmaker don't bother with headshots, just throw out constant bodyshots because they do high enough damage and the charge is fast as fuck.
So either double the charge time or lower the bodyshot damage by a reasonable amount.
>>341248098
It's really weird she is a much better hero outside of her mech.
>>341248098
not to mention her head hitbox is near the centre of mass so even if your aim strays away from her head, you're still gonna hit her body.
>>341248170
McCrees left-click and his ability to stop peoples ultimates near him is why I really like playing as him.
>>341247858
She needs multiple nerfs, none of them too large to bring her in line. She has the best of every possible world right now.
Nerf damage to 125 bodyshots at full charge so she's in line with Hanzo, the other sniper.
Nerf her rifle to be bolt-action in terms of chambering rounds so she cant just rapid-chain shot an entire team. OR nerf her ammo consumption to use significantly more ammo like 10 per sniper shot so she has to actually reload in a team-fight scenario.
And remove her ult, no god damn reason it should even be in the game. Zero downsides, all benefits and its the most powerful thing in the entire game.
>>341240418
how bad are you holy shit
>>341247858
Hopefully charge speed. 90% of Widow's problem is that she can land two fully charged shots on a leaping Winston before he even hits the ground.
McCree is a pain in the arse, but at least he has some counters. The only way to stop a Widow is with a better Widow.
>>341240418
>run up to a mercy who is currently healing someone.
>unload full tracer clip into her
>she is fucking dead because my aim isn't shit
>>341240278
Hanzo has an immensely huge hitbox to compensate for no Zoom and Mercy has the best weapon in the game in terms of hitbox and damage allowing her to headshot people. It's only a few of them have large ammo hitboxes to compensate how weak they are.
>>341247984
>I actually don't think McCree is as broken as everyone states.
he will win every single close quarters engagement with anyone thanks to Flash Fan Roll Fan (of which he only needs the first 2 to kill non tanks. When he's cool downs are on cool down, he can still Fan to kill any non tank at close quarters.
The Peacemaker's left click is hitscan, dealing 75 damage a shot and only has drop off at long range. There are very few characters that can counter him when fighting him outside of his preferred range, and none that can do it up close.
and one of his best counters is the equally broken Widow maker. How either of these characters made it to live in there current form is beyond me (especially Widow, since McSkill has already had a nerf)
>>341240418
how are you this bad?
a tracer can kill mercy without needing to reload.
>>341240418
weebshits are shit at games who couldve thought
>>341240201
>people still think its only hanzo with generous hit boxes
all the hitboxes are larger than models, but ALL characters but the largest have significantly larger hit boxes vs projectile weapons
>>341239365
>don't expect balance to change every week
>expect it to change 2-3 times a month though :^)
This is the same problem with hots. If you're that desperately forcing e-sports how can you not fucking understand basic balancing?
Someone needs to get fired there.
>>341245820
She had really high concentrated damage with her fast mobility. She could pop behind enemy lines and utterly destroy the supports and then fly out again.
>>341243882
My idea is to give his sentry mode a motor bike mode so I can go zooming around the map and rolling up walls while turreting retards.
It'd be more fun for me this way
>>341240201
>Because Hanzo player need a compensation for his shittiness.
Protip: Widow benefits from the same hitboxes. It isn't quite as extreme as Hanzo, but you can miss a Widow headshot by a good foot and it'll still register.
>Playing with Genji players.
>They jump about and get anally wrecked by anyone they get close too.
>Automatically lose because my team mates aren't good enough to pull Genji off.
Genji is good when played decently but when played by shitters you may as well have one less player on the team.
It's not the same with other characters which can deal damage even if the player is shit.
>>341240008
That probably why I got this potg
>>341240201
Hanzo isnt that bad
>>341247121
It's not really about blocking them infinitely but rather annoying the shit out of them and making them move. Even if you can block their fire for a second or two that's enough to maybe lucio speedboost in and turn the situation into an all out scrum. I don't know if they changed it but putting a wall under Bastion used to knock him out of turret form, might have been a bug though.
The main issue here is the general public is scared of Bastion and refuses to just shoot at him, it's a simple concept.
>>341246407
increase scoped charge time and give a better indication of when her ult is active.
>>341248828
>Hanzo isnt that bad
I am 99% certain that after the widow nerf Hanzo will be king sniper.
>>341249032
if the McCree nerf was anything to go by, she will barely be affected by it
>>341247737
top fucking kek
did YOU ever play widow? maybe you should before flinging shit. it's like your playing a whole different game
60 tick is barely better than 20 tick.
>>341249032
yeah but even if that is true he will still be bad compared to the rest of the roster
>>341249213
So you admit you're bad with Widow then?
I actually don't think Widow should be nerfed at all. She's easy enough to kill once you get up to her.
>But she snipes me to death every time I'm out in the open away form her.
If they have good aim, then yeah, that's exactly what should happen. If you nerf her charge ratio or rate of fire or damage then it's going to be just people getting hit with a bodyshot then having plenty of time to hide behind the millions of corners in the chokepoint filled maps. She'll be fucking useless unless you're an aimbot who can hit headshots every time. This feels like a bunch of people who are salty that there are people out there with great aim and want to handicap good players even more, removing yet another element of skilled play from the game.
With all the movement abilities and closed spaces in the game she pretty much needs to be a monster at long range. If she acted like more of a basic sniper then she'd just be underwhelming and fucked.
Maybe rework her ult or something. Similarly I don't think Mcree is that bad. He fucks people up in 1v1s but I really don't think he's hard to deal with at all if you're playing the game like it's supposed to be played. You know with team coordination and shit. But his damage output is insane so I can see where they're coming from there at least.
>inb4 people accuse me of maining mcree and widow.
My most used characters are Genji and Reinhart by the way.
2 bastions, 1 Soldier 3 Reinhardts would be enough.
How to make the game viable for competitive play:
Reduce hitbox size
Reduce or eliminate headshot hitbox size.
Retain ultimate charge when switching characters
Make all weapons hitscan, or none at all.
Other suggestions I can't think of at the moment, and balancing issues are too many to think of.
>Make all weapons hitscan, or none at all.
>>341248367
> The only way to stop a Widow is with a better Widow
Except that's not true at all.
I'm getting real tired of this meme. Literally 1 in a million widow players can even land 2 headshots on a moving target. Literally 1 in a million winstons are that fucking retarded to come at her right in the face.
literally every single person who plays this game is a fucking moron
torbs on offense, widows on offense, no mics=no communication, often times no heals...
and they call ME toxic for knowing how to play the game and asking them to play it the right way
>>341249489
>hitscan rockets
>>341249367
did that guy have spawn protection
>>341249490
Why are you basing how good Widow is on bad players? Is everyone retarded?
>>341249309
Finally somebody with some reason.
This.
just add a global warning to her ult and gg. Widow is golden (also buff hanzo so he's a viable pick too)
I LOVE D.VA
>>341249489
If you have two teams of extremely good players who will manage to hit every single shot they fire with a hitscan weapon, are those players going to play with a weapon which is slower and does less damage?
No, they'll all play hitscan hero's, which would cut out half the roster.
ergo, all hitscan or none.
>>341249490
>hitscan Hanzo
>hitscan Pharah
>>341249663
If it's the same mongoloid who balances hots expect to have a nerf every patch :^)
>>341249663
Her damage is still absurd.
>>341249707
meant for >>341249489
>>341249707
>hitscan junkrat
>>341249309
Good, snipers in team focused games are always cancer, no ifs ands or buts about it.
>>341249693
Except projectiles do more damage.
>>341249620
You mean like you are doing with brain-dead winstons?
>>341249490
>Literally 1 in a million widow players can even land 2 headshots on a moving target.
Lol no. It is dead easy to land headshots with Widow.
>>341249792
No, it's actually fine. Most non tanks in the game die extremely quickly against most other heroes, and without her strong sniping damage she wouldn't be able to confirm any kills unless she got a headshot every time.
>>341240201
What's wrong with Hanzo? He's situational, but I've found myself starting a lot of defensive games 10-0, and I'm pretty shit at the game. I'd argue he needs a bit more speed, but I enjoy playing him.
>>341249792
It should be. How is she suppose to snipe people if she can't snipe?
Then she's just shooting from very far away with piss damage.
>>341249865
>widowmaker does more damage than Hanzo
>widowmaker fires at the same rate as Hanzo
>widowmaker is hitscan whereas Hanzo has a projectile
>>341249519
>complaining about widows on offense
Spot the shitter
>>341249983
>widowmaker does more damage than Hanzo
She doesn't
>>341249983
>widowmaker can scope
>widowmaker has a better ult
>you can't sidestep widowmaker shots
>widowmaker has a 'get out of jail free' card with her hookshot
>>341249519
You're taking a casual, mindless shooter far too seriously. People just want to shoot shit and get new skins. Wait for the competitive bracket before getting upset.
>>341249918
Sure it is, that's prolly why I've never seen somebody do it besides the 1-2 webms always posted here.
>>341239365
you guys have a general
>>341249663
Funnily enough I actually do much better with Hanzo than with Widow.
I don't know what it is, maybe it's the hitboxes, but I can't aim for shit with Widow but some of my most impressive games are with Hanzo. His bow just feels so right to me, and it's becoming rarer that I miss a shot.
>>341249961
He's a strictly worse Widow, that's his problem. Hitscan with more damage, he on the other hand may shoot telephone poles, but they do less damage and have projectile falloff.
>>341250074
She does, 150 fully charged vs 125 full charged arrow. She also has a higher RoF and a 2ndary weapon that rivals soldier 76's rifle.
>>341250074
Hanzo does less in a bodyshot than Widowmaker does.
>>341250139
where they talk about everything except overwatch
>>341250138
Why would you judge how good a hero is based on webms being posted on 4chan?
>>341249230
>doesnt show latency of player
Howdy
>>341250138
Can you AWP semi-competently? Congratulations, you will dominate with Widow. The headshot hitboxes are so large in Overwatch any idiot can hit them.
If people aren't landing headshots left and right with Widow, you are quite simply playing in dumpster-tier MMR.
>>341250169
I enjoy widow more, because of the gun I suppose. I'd rather have it than that bow.
People say hanzo's arrows have a larger hitbox because I dunno why so they stick easier to targets
mcree will simply have an increased cooldown. he'll still shit all over retards.
widow will do the same, just a slower charge time.
don't get your hopes up
>>341250298
>90% of Widow's problem is that she can land two fully charged shots on a leaping Winston before he even hits the ground
Your opinion is literally from a webm
>>341246737
REMOVE
HER
FUCKING
WALLHACK ULT
>>341250352
i was mainly awping on supreme level in csgo and had a consistent +13 esea rws but i can't play widow.
>>341249961
as a sniper, he is worse than Widow in every single way. He has 2 advantages over here. 1 is scatterarrow, and 2 is that he can still easily do his sniper damage at close range, whereas as most Widows have to resort to using her AR. Neither of those advantages offset just how much better at sniping she is
Hanzo isn't actually a bad character, it's just that you can do so much more for less effort/skill as Widow
>>341250170
balanced by the fact that luckzo's arrows can hit people behind walls due to ridiculous projectile hitboxes
>>341250520
and what ultimate would you give her instead?
>>341250425
>increased cooldown
no they said they're specifically looking at his fan damage
>slower charge time
I disagree, I think they should make it do a constant rate of damage, eliminate the charge mechanic and give her a lower RoF and lower damage on bodyshot
>>341250516
Don't speak for me, I actually play the game and don't judge based just on webms posted on 4chan.
>>341250547
I'd argue that Hanzo can see through a portion of walls every 20 seconds.
>>341250516
>Your opinion is literally from a webm
Not the same guy and I've seen hit happen numerous times. I can do it myself too. It's easy as fuck.
Hell, you don't even need to land two. You can land one fully charged shot and finish him off with the SMG.
>>341249309
>people out there with great aim
Yah man totally, watching my own team mate as widow ruin the enemy team with nothing but quick shots hitting the body in quick succession with no charge time.
>>341250352
I'm bronze tier lvl 84
I get pretty good teammates and oponents. But no widow I had is THAT good. (not to mention they have a giant bullseye over their heads the moment they take the first shot). I can't even count how many times I supported widow instead of the tank because 2-3 enemies are trying to take her out
>>341250615
so turn her slightly interesting sniper rifle into a stock sniper rifle?
>>341250520
Wallhacks are fine, the fact the opposing team doesn't know you used it and the fact it's global is pretty dumb though.
>>341250615
>I disagree, I think they should make it do a constant rate of damage, eliminate the charge mechanic and give her a lower RoF and lower damage on bodyshot
That would make her fucking useless.
She needs all of those things considering the map layout, shields, movement abilities, etc.
>>341240414
This is why I can't stand Blizzard games. They nerf things into oblivion.
>>341250639
Which is at least localized to one area, rather than global and persistant. If her Ult did pulses every few seconds it would be so much better balanced, instead of this real-time update on where everyone is at all times.
Its a retarded ult, and its shitty that it will take them forever to address how bullshit it is.
>>341250639
offset by Widow's global wallhack that is the only ult in the game not announced to to the world, especially considering how quickly a half way competent Widow can build it
>>341239812
>ruin the characters for a while.
Thank fuck.
>>341250725
>hear omlette du fromage
>what could be happening guys who speaks french??????
>>341250830
I would love that if I could hear it.
>>341250830
>hear omlette du fromage
Now here's the problem. Unless she's right next to you, you won't hear shit.
>>341250567
Keep it, but remove "This enhanced vision is shared with her allies."
Fuck that shit. It's like she is guaranteed to be put in every comp team.
>>341250830
>You only hear this if you are within 20 feet of her
>She's a sniper in the backlines
Its dumb, you're dumb. They're dumb.
>>341250678
So she should have to get headshots every time if she wants to kill huh?
Maybe that's fine for a game like TF2, but that would be fucking awful. If she couldn't get those quick kills then there'd be no point in picking her, she'd just be another generic FPS Sniper in a world full of Genjis and Tracers and other heroes that can do a shit ton of damage and run around willy nilly.
I hope you never balance a game.
>>341250701
Charge time is not an interesting merchanic, it wasn't in TF2 and it still isn't
>>341250750
>widow now needs to land headshots with no relation to how long she's been scoped instead of hardscoping a bodyshot
>she's ruined
It would make her better in the hands of a really skilled player but worse for the masses, as a sniper should be. Headshots would still do the same damage, and you wouldn't have to hug your scope for half an hour for them to work
>>341250830
>hear omlette du fromage
except its not a global announcement like other ults. It's an ordinary sound effect as far as mechanics are concerned, meaning you will only hear it if you are close to the Widow when she ults, and it can easily be covered by other noises.
>>341250924
comp teams are usually 2 mcree, lucio, mercy, winston and widow. that's true. but at a comp level you're probably always going to run a sniper in this game. and hanzo is shit long range
>>341240194
>Blizzard doesn't see this. Blizzard will just nerf everything.
Except no. They've already said they're just toning down fan the hammer, probably in damage.
>>341250805
>is the only ult in the game not announced to to the world
Actually... https://youtu.be/vSQaVF5kmdc?t=2m58s
>>341251152
just make it so fan can't headshot. problem fucking solved.
>>341250981
>So she should have to get headshots every time if she wants to kill huh?
It's perfectly fine for a game like overwatch too, good snipers will get more headshots than bodyshots and still be effective.
>>341249032
fucking PLEASE no
i don't get what people see in this character. there's fun characters, there's useful characters, there's people like lucio that are both, and then there's hanzo that's neither
>>341251258
Are you retarded? It can't headshot now.
>>341250987
No, considering all the powers and choke points in this game, I don't think that would work out. Even for people with incredible aim, having to get headshots for every kill in a game like this would be too much too ask.
You're trying to bring her down to the level of a Sniper in an FPS without all of Overwatch's craziness without considering how the game is different.
>>341248120
>>341247910
>>341247728
>>341247517
From how much damage the Traacer took there, I'd say it's not a single arrow but rather a single ricochet of his Scatter Arrow ability, where he fires an arrow that then scatters upon contact with a surface and bounces around with like 5 separate lower damage projectiles.
I only want to play this game because D.VA is cute.
>>341251354
>Even for people with incredible aim, having to get headshots for every kill in a game like this would be too much too ask.
Bullshit. It's easier to get headshots in Overwatch than in pretty much any other competitive shooter.
>>341251258
it already can't headshot
>>341251354
I'd agree if the headshot hitboxes in this game weren't fucking bobbleheads.
>>341251258
Not really, you can still get the tanks without headshots
>>341251354
One widowmaker SHOULD NOT be able to shut down an entire push, maybe one or two players in it, but no way should she be getting team wipes without extreme skill. Snipers are meant to have a high skill floor an an incredible ceiling, right now her floor and ceiling are in virtually the same place, there's little difference between a good sniper and a great sniper.
Not to even mention the ridiculously slow walk speeds and broken hitboxes
>>341245820
Her Shotguns did a lot of damage.
>>341251096
I've heard it's 2 winston 2 lucio 2 mcree now
>enemy team has two widowmakers cycling their ultimates
>enemy team never at any point doesn't have wallhacks
>>341251520
>>341251351
Then I don't understand how it does so much damage, it's just 6 normal shots right?
>>341251598
Blizzard is dumb and made it do too much damage
>>341251598
Dude 6 mcree shots is 1000 damage, and he can roll and do it immediately again for another 1000
And this is equally effective on small characters as big ones because flashbang is so undodgeable
>>341239365
D.va buff when?
>>341251598
That's 6x70. It's a lot of damage.
>>341251202
apart from that video missing a ton of voice lines like Pharah and Reapers friendly ult lines, or the changes to mercy, see
>>341251072
>>341251751
>playing the literal '0 aim required' character and expecting to compete with real characters
Lay in the bed you've made for yourself.
>>341251598
70x6 so 420. Now add roll into this and you can pump out 840 in a second.
Its why Fan needs a damage and cooldown nerf, not just one. Instead of killing tanks after they nerf it, he's just going to cripple them completely and then follow up with another fan after reload.
>>341251751
Hopefully never, in beta before nerf she was fucking horrific to deal with, a literal better tracer in every way.
>this thread
So... Overwatch is shit then?
>>341240559
Mercy needs her ult charge up time increased.
>you've ran into mcree 1v1
How do you kill him /v/?
>>341251598
McCree's Fan right now does 420 if all 6 shots hit, and he can then instantly Roll and do another 420.
Man can do 840 dmg to anyone within the time of the stun from the Flash.
So that, along with the fact that they created him to counter hyper-mobility, leads to them nerfing his Fan later this week.They already said they're not touching the Flash, so no you can't say "nerf the Flash"
>>341239365
Change Ree fan to 300 FROM 425.
Reduce widow body shot damage to 100 FROM 150.
Reduce ultra per shot gained. 7-8 charge shots should give ultra, not fucking 4.
If she dies while ulting it gets turned off. Give her ult some type of light humming noise so the enemy doesn't have to guess.
>>341251846
shut the fuck up
>>341251990
>hook
>shotty+melee
heh.. easy. Looks like he couldn't handle the whole hog.
>>341251990
You hope to fuck your defense finger is a lot faster than his flashbang finger.
>>341251987
That is the only thing that needs to be changed on Mercy, she can ult so frequently.
>>341251970
you've never been to a hots/dota/league thread? this is how we discuss the game
man i played 4k hours of dota and even though i eventually quit, i don't think it was that bad of a game until recently when they fucked it up real bad with the memeback and turtling mechanics
>>341244957
>Anubis point A
>Enemy team is 5 Torbjörn + Junkrat
>All turrets cover eachother
>All of them are inside buildings out of reach for Pharah
>Junkrats die in seconds
>Reaper can't even get into ghosting distance
>Genji can't deal enough damage
>They have 5 molten cores so one is up almost always
>>341251970
yes
but only because of the players
>>341245338
Genji already has the two hardest counters in the game named Winston, Mei and any tank to an extend, he doesn't need another but Cree is far from being a counter to him in my eyes.
>>341252042
>dva shitter with shitty dva tumblr art
neck yourself
>>341251990
Hope he he suffers cardiac arrest before stunning me
>>341252107
>i don't think it was that bad of a game
even though i complained about the valves balance every single patch, i mean
requesting pic of icefrog giving the new patch to a player
>>341252174
Y are u so rude anon
>>341252107
>you've never been to a hots/dota/league thread?
Yeah but I tend to actively avoid MOBA games. Mostly because >>341252135 is almost always true
>>341252054
>Flashbang is faster than hook
>Fan 6 shots into you
>Roll and do it again if you're not dead yet
I haven't died to a porkie yet in a 1v1.
>>341251990
Am I the only one who can somehow always, without fail, get off Mei's Ice Block by spamming the key while stunned, and survive?
It seems like when McCuck Fans me as Mei, there's enough of a delay between the first 3 shots and the second 3 that it leaves me with 40 hp, and I can Ice Block>Ice Wall to get out.
Don't get me wrong, McCuck's Fan is still OP as shit, but I'm able to consistently do this in Mei v McCuck combat.
>>341252452
If you do this he can just walk up to your ice cube and fan as soon as you thaw.
>>341244387
I actually hate Hanamura's first point the most out of any map. Literally a chokepoint and a small window on the upper left side. Like if you somehow wipe the other team, then it's really hard for them to take it back since it's a huge walk back and chances are, they'll just be trickling in instead of pushing as one, but god that first point is such a bitch.
THe second part is pretty nice though, good alternative paths.
>>341245820
Just imagine current Dva, but her guns actually do a lot of damage.
>>341252170
McCree absolutely hardcounters Genji at close quarters due to flash + fan. Yes, Genji can deflect a direct flash, but you can just throw it at his feet and he will get stunned
at mid range, its McCrees 70 dmg hitscan weapon vs Genji's 3x28 projectile burst weapon. Either way its 3 shots for either hero to kill the other, and it's so much easier to land McCree's shots.
long range doesn't matter much for either of them
>>341239365
Oh boy I sure am glad Blizzard is catering to whining scrubs and wants the scrub audience. Very unsurprising to me though, I've dealt with Blizzard's idiocy for years.
Thanks scrubs, bad players have won once again.
>>341252731
>actually do a lot of damage.
Just how much? 3 body shots to 150-200 health characters?
Obviously the easy fix is that Widowmaker takes 50 self damage every time she fires the sniper rifle scoped, and that the charge meter starts going back down if you remain at full charge for more than 2 seconds.
>Makes Widow less tanky than frontliners
>Forces Widow to wait between shots instead of blanketing areas with cover fire
>Discourages camping scoped in at head height
>Punishes bad placement where stray damage can ruin your day
>>341249982
>>341249952
increase the charge time by double AT LEAST
>>341252775
What are you talking about? All the competitive players I watch (seagull, talespin, steel) all agree widow is completely overpowered.
>>341252054
He flashbangs and double fans you before you ever get the melee off.
>>341252775
T. Assblown widow main
>>341252775
McCree and Widow are scrub characters
bastionbuffs when?
>>341244957
>Pick 2 Genji
>overlap Es
>Rein shield gone
>Probably a kill or two
Wew that was hard!
Just switch back to a useful hero once you broke through the chokepoint.
>>341253159
>genji starts shouting moon runes
>stop shooting for 2 sec.
>open fire on the rest of his team
>kill him after
*whistles pertaining to your mother*
>>341253109
Higher HP, lower DPS in turret form or something.
Basically anything to discourage Bastions that sit opposite of a Torbjörn turret and aim at the point. Mobile Bastions are fun as hell.
>>341252898
>3 whole people
Being a competitive player doesn't exempt them from being idiots.
>>341252991
>maining anyone
>maining at all
Thanks for proving me right.
>>341253038
Widowmaker is one of the only characters in the game that takes skill to play. This is evident from how useful or useless a team member playing her can be based upon their performance.
People who cry for nerfs are the true bad players. A good player will adapt and overcome. A bad player will cry that it's unfair and blame the game instead of their own lack of skill.
>>341253109
Just give him 50 energy in turret mode, nerf his damage in turret mode and buff his machine gun.
Probably nerf the damage it does to shields too, because Bastions machine gun just rapes Reinhardts shield for no reason.
>>341253159
>Just switch your entire team around to be super squishy to kill ONE Bastion
>>341249309
Found the McCree main.
>McRee not that bad
Fucking hell m8
>>341253540
How do you adapt and overcome to Windowmaker literally forcing Zen to never be a viable hero.
>>341253425
Yeah. it's crazy. People really underestimate normal bastion mode.
>>341253691
That means Zenyatta needs to be buffed, not Widow.aker needs to be nerfed.
>>341249373
Ult charge is impossible to retain, since some heroes (like mercy) gain ult charge a lot faster than others.
>>341253780
Why not both, widow main
>zenyatta needs a buff
>2 shots any non tank
Patch is probably coming out today, being Tuesday and all.
>>341253780
>Deletes Zen from the game
>Forces the entire game into a crawl
>Makes any tanks not named winston or Reinhardt useless
>>341253979
>1 shot by literally anyone.
>Is basically a super slow shitty Hanzo
>>341253780
T. Someone who knows nothing about balance in multi-player games
>>341253898
>still being this much of a scrub retard
I don't main because I am not a shitter, unlike you. Also the best solution for attaining balance in a game is through buffing things that underperform, not nerfing what is already working properly.
>>341253979
>gets 2 shotted by anything
>>341249373
I pray for you that you're not serious about any of that.
>>341253540
>adapt and overcome wall hacks and 1 body shot killing zenyetta
nice crutch scrub
and you can make the same claim about usefulness when talking about any character
>>341254058
Yes, I know you're someone who knows nothing about balance in multiplayer games
>>341254069
that's the yin and the yang familia
it's insta kill or be insta killed
>>341254064
>buff things that underperform
now everyone needs a buff to compete with widow
she's miles ahead of the rest of the cast, with McCree coming in a close second
>>341254064
>Just buff every other character instead of nerfing Widow
Let go of the nerf boogeyman.
>>341254149
>scrub that can't adapt or recognize when his losses.are his own fault
>calling anyone else a scrub
>>341254092
I'm always awestruck by how fucked up that dudes back teeth are every time I see the gif
>>341254263
>she's miles ahead of the rest of the cast
No, not at all.
>>341250561
I can just tell by the way you use "Luckzo" you are an extremely salty person who keeps getting outplayed by Hanzo.
>>341253979
>2 shots any non tank
Except it's 3 headshots with Discord to kill Tracer.
>>341254318
>adapt to getting killed in 1 body shot
xd dood
>>341254064
A character with a true hitscan weapon dealing 150 dmg per 1.5 seconds is not balanced
A character with an ultra that persists even when killed is not balanced.
A character that requires two dedicated winstons to counter is not balanced.
Stop acting like you know anything or are even remotely good at games widowfag.
>>341254417
Widow main please go, I can shut down an entire team by myself as widow and I'm new to the whole charge mechanic on snipers.
She's blatantly broken
I hope they nerf the shit out of widowmaker making her nearly unable to play.
>>341250981
>Widow so OP she gets nerfed the first month
>You pretend she's fine
>"I hope you never balance a game"
The fucking irony
>all this butthurt from people who play nothing but Widow
Tracer pro here, quit playing point & click and learn a high IQ character like me, my dudes.
>>341254517
Stop getting body shot. If the only counter to Widowmaker is another Widowmaker as you scrubs like to parrot, and if she's so easy, I'm sure a "highly skied" player like yourself should have no problem taking down the other team's Widowmaker.
If you can't, then it must mean the other player is better than you are, which would mean the character is working as intended.
>>341254064
So, we need to buff
>Hanzo, because he's a worse sniper in every way
>Zarya Roadhog and D.va Because Widow can two hit them with headshots that only a retard can miss
>Reinhardt because his shield is destroy by Widow in seconds
>Zen, because he dies to one bodyshot
>Winston, because despite being one of the best counters to Widowmaker is still killed by two body shots and AS damage before even being in range
>Genji,Junkrat,Tor,bastion Reaper and tracer need HP buffs because they die in 1-2 hits from her.
Are you seeing a pattern here, Widow has a supremely long range 1-2 hit killing mechanic with no real weaknesses because her AS is great for deterrent and her hook is an amazing escape.
Let me outline how fucking stupid Widowmaker is
>Highest damage shots in the game
>No slow rate of fire
>200 HP on a hyper backline character
>great mobility
>Built in area defense measures
>Global teamwide ult that lasts forever and takes 10 shots to charge.
>>341254758
Genji here, why don't you work for some of those kills?
ITT: 90% of you are litteral dogshit with the shit that you type, 10% acctally understand the game.
You cunts are a disgrace to this game, git gud fgts
>>341252731
That's it? I thought there were more and that's actually it?
>>341254758
>tracer aka free kills character
>complaining about widwomaker
>>341239365
Why does widow have 200 HP as a back line character, yet Zen has 150
>>341254064
>Also the best solution for attaining balance in a game is through buffing things that underperform
No, you inbred fucking retard.
That leads to power creep like no other, and leads to a game where everyone needs to exploit overpowered gimmicks instead of actually having solid base gameplay.
>>341254864
>Game has set chokepoints designed to force teams to group together to get through
>One class can completely delete another class from the game despite any teamplay the person tries.
>>341254514
What a fucking lie. It's 2 shots. Try it.
>>341254758
>high IQ character
>press shift and e
wew blizzcuck
>>341254910
>Sniper literally stops a whole hero from being in the game.
Hell, Widowmaker basically means nobody can ever have 150 HP in this game unless they have 4 mechanics to avoid people like tracer.
>>341254514
I'm not sure you know what headshots are anon.
>>341252042
Fucking Dva players all are transgender weebs wanting to be a korean 18 year old gamer girl in real life, your all digusting and bad, shes a dogshit dogtier hero that unless overbuffed will never be relevant.
>>341254864
That's enough (you)'s for you.
>>341254965
>free kills
>squishiest, most fast paced character in the game
Dude please no need to get mad, no one will judge you for playing free kill characters aka Mei, Junkrat and Roadhog.
>>341254910
>Widowmaker so strong she literally stopped people playing any support but Lucio.
>>341255146
I'm not a transgender
>>341239812
I don't mind McCree and Widowmaker being nerfed too hard for a while, they don't bring anything interesting to the team. Whatever they do to his FTH he will still be a good counter to annoying squishies, and the game would be just as good without snipers
>>341250567
Wallhack in a small area around her and where she is looking with her rifle, the full map range she currently has gives way too much info (flanker's position, TP position, and so on) given how fast it charges.
>>341254565
>>341254758
>scrubs in favor of nerfing her can't formulate a single argument without blindly accusing anyone who calls them out on their scrubness as being a widowmaker "main
>this obviously outing them as a shitter who."mains" characters in this game at all
Like fucking pottery.
Blzzard wants the scrub audience though, so worry not, you'll be well taken care of in their hands.
>>341246734
Should have Armor instead of Shields.
>>341255146
>weebs
>wanting to be korean
>ifunny.co
Somebody complaining about weebs on 4chan while being absolutely fucking retarded? I'd never have guessed.
>>341255318
YEAH IT'S NOT FAIR BRO
>>341254874
but its not a deathmatch game...she is never really in action and dosnt help the allies much in a brawl around the car or on spot..i played tracer and get her easylie with pharrah also
>>341253554
The guy said 2 bastion.
>Switching your entire team around JUST to break through a chokepoint
This is why you can switch heroes anon. It's clear you're a fucking idiot who just plays 1 hero and keeps dying and wondering why. No wonder you can't get passed point A in Anubis.
>>341255318
>Requires wall hack as a sniper
you're pretty shit desu
>>341254514
Orb does 45 body shot. Headshots double damage, so a single orb without discord headshotting does 90. It'll take 2 headshots /without/ discord to take out a Tracer.
With discord, the headshot will do 135 and the body shot will do 67.5 (Unsure if it rounds up or down).
Why nerf/buff anything? Why not just leave everyone as they are?
>>341255318
>THIS mad your crutches get nerfed
Don't worry man, maybe someday you'll actually learn how to play!
>>341255530
>Switch to Genji
>B-But his E kills bastion
>Bastion stops firing
>Kills you in crossfire
The actual counter to Bastion is called attacking him from two angles, the problem there is the maps limit your angles dramatically.
>>341255668
Because those 2 heroes are blatantly overpowered, especially Widowmaker.
>>341255493
>Widow never in the action
>Can shutdown the cart herself because she destroys all soft targets in seconds.
>>341255668
>bargaining
>mfw widowfags in this thread are following the 7 stages of grief right on póint
>>341252170
>mei
>counters Genji
Any Genji that feels like a Mei has an advantage over him should uninstall the game right now.
If anything Genji is the hard counter to Mei.
Post cute D.va
>three most played are McCree, Tracer and Widow
>glad as fuck that Cree and Widow are getting nerfed
Realize you're wrong and be reasonable. It doesn't make you a worse player, just gives you chance to improve.
>>341255813
There's no reason you and everyone else can't play as those characters if you feel like it.
>>341255974
go back to tumblr and take your shitty art with you
>>341250304
>Latency on a player who is SITTING STILL.
>>341255762
>2 bastion rein widow and tor setup on anubis
>you actually think they will think and not fire when they see a red dot in their crosshair
And evem IF they stop firing, you advance. Jesus how hard is this to understand. The map revolves around that chokepoint. If you can break through, their setup is useless.
>>341256010
>9 hours as Mcree
>3 of which was me having fun, the rest was to deal with Tracer, Mei and genji players
He deserves it, but I'll be damned to let Tracers and Genjis run wild on my watch.
>>341256201
How long will keep this reddit meme going?
>>341255318
you play a class that charges up their shot while using a wallhack
you play the scrubbiest class of all
The only problem is now that they nerf Macree how are we suppose to deal with Tracers and Genjis?
Just imagine that every game will now be filled with 2+ unkillable Tracers in each team, this will be 100x times tedious than dealing with a Cowboy.
>>341239365
>I can't wait for the tears from scrubs who can't play without a crutch
Me too. That is, I can't wait for the tears from all of the shitters who complained when they realize nothing changed and they still suck ass.
Oh noooo, I can't shred tanks anymore! Whatever will I do? lmfao
>>341244264
>I have never played Pharah for more than five seconds
>>341256468
They already said McCree is supposed to kill squishies but not tanks.
>>341255623
Who said anything about her ultimate? At least it still requires you to make the shots, unlike most which are essentially press Q receive kills.
>>341255761
No crutches, and it's hilariously hypocritical of you to be in favor of nerfs and at the same time accusing people of needing crutches.
>>341255878
Why does it feel like I'm arguing with dumb children.
>>>341256010
The hypocrisy here is unbelievable.
>>341256108
>b-b-but you can play OP heroes as well, that makes it balanced
Fucking hell m8. Not everyone enjoys playing on easy mode. You think I feel joy when I fan roll fan and kill the 500+HP tank?
Go fuck yourself m8. Glad he's getting nerfed
>>341256468
Fan the Hammer damage limited to 300 max. Then a short, say, two or three second cooldown on FtH so McCree can't Flash, FTH, Roll, FTH again to still melt tanks with a potential 625 damage.
>>341239812
Coming from someone who played starcraft 2 for a long time, this is exactly how they balance. They're fucking shit at it.
>>341256108
that's the point.
if you wanted to play cowboys vs snipers, you should go play a different game, 2 characters who dominate over all other characters in a class based game with over 20 other characters should not be left untouched.
>>341254985
>actual retard trying to call anyone else a retard
>>341256765
make flashbang only work on direct contact and you have yourself a deal
>>341252110
>>All turrets cover eachother
that's what the japs did with their MG bunkers.
It's what you're supposed to do but overwatch shitters are too bad.
Only nerf widow really needs is a downgrade in bodyshot damage.
McCree's FtH should have a drop off of damage and his flash nade should actually flash, not stun. Make it a blind and move on, if you're gud, you can work with it.
Mei's freezing shouldn't be able to freeze everyone at the same rate nor lock you out of your abilities if you're currently using them/lock your mobility skills. (Pharah's jump, McCree's roll etc)
Change part of Pharah's health to armor due to her fucking SUIT OF GODDAMN ARMOR WHAT THE FUCK
Change bastion's dps in sentry mode slightly(see; by about 10-20)
Raise the cooldown on roadhog's fucking healing to 10 seconds because 200hp every 8 seconds + a pull + a fuckyourbutthole shotgun is a little too much.
Make Lucio's soundblast alt fire be able to push rein while he's behind his shield
>>341239812
>every nerf/buff they did was always complete overkill and either completely gutted the character or made them ridiculously OP
that's literally what they do in hearthstone.
when they think a card is too strong, they nerf it so hard that it becomes absolute trash, to the point where it is completely unplayable.
they did it to warsong commander, to arcane golem, to force of nature, to starving buzzard, and to several other cards i cant even remember because they've basically been erased from the game by the absurd nerfs.
>>341257061
Won't ever happen. He's designed(poorly) to counter Tracer and Genji, two characters who are also poorly designed for an FPS, the AoE ensures he can actually do what he's supposed to.
Blame Tracer honestly, she links back to every terrible design decision they've made.
>Widowmaker nerf
What? She's the only character that actually requires skill to use properly.
>>341257563
2stronk. 200HP, 150 damage bodyshots that charge in under a second, 300 damage headshots, no need to unscope after every shot, hideous RoF, easy getaway tool (grappel) if someone does get on her shit, wallhack ult that you can't hear on the enemy team unless you're RIGHT next to her and doesn't deactivate when she's killed.
>>341257061
Fuck no.
Like it or not, if the flashbang itself got nerfed the game would be ruined by Tracer quicker than she ruined HotS. Mcree just needs to not be able to instagib fucking tanks, a class of characters with a very low effective range so they're all Mcree bait, and we'll be in business.
>>341239365
Widow isn't imbalanced, just stop running down hallways expecting not to get sniped. What the fuck is this garbage?
>>341239365
WIDOW IS NOT GETTING NERFED JUST YET
they are still looking at widow and how they can lower her but not make her useless
>>341257563
that's the point, due to her kit she has the highest skillcap and as it stands currently, 1 good widowmaker can lock down entire teams or force 2-3 people to switch to specifically counter 1 widowmaker. That's terrible design choices. She's literally the TF2 sniper on crack cranked up to 300/100 and the TF2 sniper is still very strong and can shut down teams by himself
>pretty good sniper in tf2
>above average at other classes too
>shit at aiming in Overwatch
Does anyone else feel like each character has different mouse acceleration or something?
Also what's your preferred cross hair?green dot for everyone bar Hanzo, green default for him
I think I need a friend in a private server to help me calculate my sensitivity for each character.
I can hit as Zen and Törb tho.
>>341257869
Yes she is
>>341240418
aka
"guys I don't know how to aim in the general head region"
>>341257837
>Widow is pretty much universally on both teams in competitive
>Widow literally makes it so you can't pick some characters (Hello Zenyatta)
>Widow is the only character who doesn't have an immediate global callout when she uses her ultimate except technically Symmetra and is instead a local callout, which you won't hear unless you're close
>Close
>To the sniper
>Forces minimum two players to counter a good one because a solo Winston will just get absolutely shitcanned by a worthwhile Widow
>Not Imbalanced
Your stupid purple waifu is getting nerfed, deal, nigga.
I'd just be satisfied with her HP being reduced to 150. At least then another Widow could bodyshot her to neutralize her. Then she becomes more about positioning and not "Who can two-tap first."
>>341257430
>flash nade should actually flash, not stun
How can someone miss the point so much?
Played it for a couple days, got bored, won't touch it again.
Fuck off shill.
>>341257430
>flash grenades should flash
>wearing a suit of armor should equate to armor in game
>Lucio should be buffed
>Hog should be nerfed
>>341257563
Yeah, that's the problem.
She's tuned for low skill with console input and when there's someone who can actually snipe playing Widowmaker the fun just ends.
>>341258424
>throw flash at tracer
>she starts panicing and teleporting around into walls while getting rekt or she teleports off of a cliff
>tanks turning around and moving, unable to see where they're going and get fukt by your team+you
Literally only problem i could see is maybe they just start spraying around them to find hitmakers and those could also be hidden + hitting other enemies.
>>341258594
>wearing goddamn armor ingame doesn't do anything, it just looks cool
what the fuck kind of logic is this? Even if it's goddamn 20 armor, i don't care
>>341257494
They really did not hit hearthstone so hard. Lots of apparently overpowered cards went untouched. Shit like BGH, Buzzard and even blade flurry(!) still see play.
>>341258635
Bingo. She was tuned for play with a controller, not a mouse and keyboard. Matter of fact the whole game was tuned for console play, as evidenced by the gratuitously generous hitboxes for both projectiles and hitscan.
>>341258758
>Throw flash at tracer
>She just rewinds and reengages or just fucks off because your slow ass has zero chance of catching her
>>341257963
I just use small cross for everyone.
>>341258204
Sounds like you are playing with shit Winstons. Jump at her, then kill her. She can land head shots on you for the entire duration of your leap as you come at her, and you won't come close to dying. Then casual walk around her and watch as she dies.
She still needs a nerf, but only so more characters can counter her besides Winston or another Widow.
>>341258897
That can be tweaked too, maybe force all skills into a CD phase
>>341244264
console player detected
>playing as genji
>enemies are pushing towards the last point
>completely outplay them and kill 5 of them with only the assist of a zen
>potg comes up
>it was me ulting as reaper killing 3 people and m1ing a roadhog to death all the way back at the first point
>potg
>>341239365
widow needs a nerf, lel scrubs.
mei and mccree need the nerf.
>>341258758
>throw flash at tracer
and then she either recalls or blinks backwards.
>what the fuck kind of logic is this?
It makes no goddamn fucking sense, armor exists for a reason, it's not just orange health. Lots of character wear some kind of protection.
>>341256627
Wallhacks has literally zero counter play and is the scrubbiest ult in the entire game, it's completely brainless
>>341239812
>these nerfs will probably be overkill and ruin the characters for a while.
>I can go a match without turning a corner and being "WOAH THERE"d or being instantly headshot by a wall hacking Widow and her silent ult
Thank fuck
>>341259054
Why not just stun and let it serve its purpose instead of making it overcomplicated and possibly useless?
>>341244264
What the fuck am I reading? Pharah is trash tier against any team with a widow/soldier/mccree which is every team because they're the best damage classes in the game and if you want to spam explosives, Junkrat is better for it.
>>341258957
You haven't played many good Widows then, the whole point currently is that you need 2 Winstons to deal with 1 Widow effectively in a competitive setting because the Widow will see the Winston coming, headshot him then bodyshot him twice and he's done. If he does get in range after being headshot, he does not have the DPS to kill her before she kills him with her AR mode+poison OR she just relocates and Winston has to wait a few seconds to chase her, while she just shoots him again.
You need to cover the approach with 2 Winstons so at least one will get through and harass her long enough to let the team push through. That's pretty terrible.
>>341259160
>>throw flash at tracer
>and then she either recalls or blinks backwards.
see
>>341259054
Yeah they do wear some kind of protection, but how many of them wear literal metal on their bodies like what Pharah does and if they do, maybe they should have armor as well. Goddamn Zen is a robot and half his shit is armor anyway.
>>341259287
because right now it's being overused and should be fixed
>>341259279
Widow's ult isn't 100% silent. It's just the complete opposite of any of the audio design you expect from ultimates
>Incredibly loud map wide yelling with fucking echoes
vs
>Very tiny french whispering that can actually be drowned out by gunfire unlike everything else
I mean I get that's the point that she's a subtle-assassin bitch but come the fuck on
>>341258957
You are aware that her assault rifle is only marginally worse than 76's right?
13 damage with no fall off 30 rounds
7-18 damage 25 rounds
It's literally easier to deal with Winston as widow than 76
>>341259483
It's not being fucking overused, it's a skill and it's being used as the need arises. Maybe we should make Tracer's blink just darken the screen for a milisecond instead of being a short range teleport since it's being overused.
>>341259449
Druid deserved it and they're still pulling the same old shit with C'thun anyway.
>>341258957
>Jump at her
>She immediately 180's and grappels away into her teammates
>Stuck holding my banana while her teammates obliterate my shield
>Faced with the only choice of retreating because there's no way I can jump into her entire team and stay alive long enough to kill her
>>341259483
Its not overused its effective, there is a difference. With how retard hard it is to kill a good tracer flat-stop-gaps like a hard stun need to exist.
>>341259523
Oh I know it actually has a sound cue, but its fucking ridiculous that one of the strongest ults in the game has a sound cue that is literally impossible to hear unless you're balls deep inside the Widow. But don't worry, you'll be sure to hear Mei and her dumpster ultimate from halfway across the universe instead.
>>341259449
If you think that's undeserved I'm inclined to think you're a Comboshitter.
>>341259449
That's a good card with Token Druid and meh in arena
>>341259765
Don't forget that there's no thinking involved, it's not situational at all so you can always pop ult immediately with no repercussions (unless you team wiped them then you wait 5 seconds)
It's also not stopped on her death
>>341259752
If only there was some other way like "disable skills for 2 seconds" that would stop a tracer teleporting around without turning every character in the game into a free kill.
>>341259752
>>341259660
you've convinced me, maybe a different approach should be taken.
>>341260008
What the fuck are doing, this is not how things work on /v/
>>341250561
So can Widowmaker you dunce. It's been said like three times already. The hit box issues don't stem from his arrows it's from the size of character hitboxes.
That's why arrows don't get stuck on walls but do float next to someone's head if you are the same distance.
>playing as genji
>reflect a zarya ult
>ult and kill the 3 people it caught
>potg was the enemy McCree ulting 3 people and then getting a pure skill flash fan
There is no justice
>>341250981
>So she should have to get headshots every time if she wants to kill huh?
Yes, she's a sniper. Unless the target is already low on health in which case she had help.
Snipers cannot have the longest range, the highest damage and anti flanking tools. It's stupid. She should not one shot a member of the cast with no escape tools with a body shot. It's stupid.
>>341260008
>you've convinced me
am i on /v/ or some parallel dimension
>>341244264
>I've never played Pharah
>>341260314
To be fair, your play was 100% luck.Still, it was probably way more entertaining.
>>341259982
That wouldn't serve a purpose at all, the lockdown is the only thing that makes him reliable as a counter. If you had full movement but no abilities you'd be able to either outgun, or run away. 2 things she shouldn't be able to do against her hard counter.
Same logic applies to how bullshit widowmaker is right now. She in no world should stand a chance against Winson, Tracers or Genjis. Instead she has options to gun them down or retreat.
This ain't call of duty, its a class based shooter. Classes counter other classes, if they don't counter what they are supposed to they are worthless.
>Hanzo is a worse sniper than Widowmaker
But Hanzo isn't a sniper. The only thing he has in common with a sniper is that his shots does more than average damage. That's it.
>>341260476
Pharah's a mess right now because shes a character whos design is entirely based on being in the air and flying around like a shit, but being in the air is literally the worst possible place for her.
how to tell how good someone is at overwatchcomplains about Bastion - new playercomplains about Mei - bad at video games, probably plays on consolecomplains about McCree - a decent to high mid level playercomplains about Widow - at a skill level where each side's Widow dictates most of the game, realizes McCree has a fair amount of counter play
>>341239365
I can't wait for the tears of you while trying to come up with the latest excuse for why you are losing your games now that those 2 are nerfed.
>>341260479
Not really, I was far enough that I could react to the ult being shot since I was waiting for it anyway since the zarya had been doing fairly well
>>341244957
One distraction hero who goes behind enemy lines and starts havoc, reinhardt mercy + 2 junkrats push in.
theres your chance of winning. or just play 6 phara for one life and just nuke them away then switch back again to normal. A winston is very very good for the distraction.
>>341239365
Welp now they are no fun anymore.
>>341260650
He's classified as a sniper by the game I don't know what to tell you man
>>341249557
no thats just the netcode and shitty programming in general.
>>341240052
The trouble is, that's just not how Blizzard do it in beta. It's how they do it in live.
>>341240021
This. Also a longstanding WoW player here, and we've seen how they handle classes over something like a decade of balance in a large, multifaceted game.
Blizzard never got the hang of a subtle nerf. It's always nerf into the ground. Then they have to rebuff things they overnerfed. Then they have to buff other things to compensate for that buff. And it ends up, every time, being a never-ending balancing act, such that each and every patch you end up wondering who's getting their turn at being great before they get hammered into the ground.
>>341260578
That's retarded and bad design. "Hard counters" should not exist otherwise there's zero point to having humans playing the game in the first place. I'm glad you have no involvement in making games.
>>341260687
Pharah is a "mess" because she the Hero desides Widow that completely tely on your ability to aim well yet she has to put herself at tremendous risk. Hitscan weapons completely destroy her, she has pathetic splash damage, and her Ult is ambush only.
>>341261381
Nigger thats literally what the game is, that's literally what they designed the game to be.
>>341261553
Pharrah is not a mess, she's just the highest skill ceiling of the game alongside tracer and genji.
>>341261142
The problem with Blizzard balance is that they don't understand that a nerf to X is indirectly a buff to Y and Z or vice versa. So instead of just nerfing X, they nerf X AND buff Y/Z at the same time which doesn't achieve balance, it just tilts the scales in the opposite direction. Of course, there will be occasions where both a buff and a nerf are necessary but there's never a chance to see how just a nerf or just a buff shakes out first.
Anyone feel like Winston is going to be the next whined about Hero?
>Big jump with fast cool down
>Shield
>Literally no-aiming-required weapon that eats 200 health characters for free
>>341260985
Yeah... don't put too much trust in those labels and just think for yourself.
>>341261381
that's OW and thats why we're having a discussion about Widow and McCree as they have no real counters currently other than another Widow or 2 dedicated people stopping them.
OW is basically Rock Paper Scissors but if Scissors beats Rock and Paper, there's a problem.
>>341261702
A high skill ceiling doesn't necessarily mean they can't be counted extremely easily
>>341261840
he has too many counters as is, Roadhog and Reaper absolutely shit on Winston and his damage is so pathetic. He's mobile and annoying, that's about it.
>>341261660
No it isn't. Soft counters are also a thing. For example a reaper soft counters a soldier in close quarters but it doesn't completely take the control out of the soldier's hand. That is the way it's supposed to work.
>>341261840
No, because it still takes a bit of time to actually kill someone with Winston, unlike Mcree and Widowmaker.
Also his ult is shit.
>>341261702
Pharah's skill ceiling isn't even particularly high m8. Pretty much the only thing to learn is how to aim her rockets better, since her air movement is gimped as fuck and rocket jumping is barely a thing. The rest of her is just things you have to learn on literally every other hero, like positioning, and learning to repick if your team isn't countering the non-brain dead enemy Widow.
Pharah should get some type of small buff, I'd be happy with either
>150 HP / 50 Armor
>Faster movement in the air
>Increases splash damage
>>341261975
The only problem is Widowmaker really, for being able to instantly drop her dead without effort. Soldier can be countered by good positioning.
>>341247517
>ult is mapped to page down
They literally shouldn't nerf anyone. There is no such thing as balance. There's just some characters that are easier to play than others. The harder to play characters need more effort to master, but they can be just as effective if you "Get good".
>>341262407
>mccree main
>>341261840
He gets absolutely bodied by pretty much every other tank
>>341262295
>blaster shots
>blaster jumps
>overall rocket aiming
>>341239916
>no Doritos stains
0/10 would not bang
>>341262343
you can't out position a genji. there is literally no way for a pharah and a genji of equal skill to have the pharah come out on top except bottom of the barrel players
>>341262489
Winston beats Reinhardts that doesn't realize his shield can't stop the Zap
>>341262492
You say those first two like they are at all hard to do man. Character movement is totally gimped in this game, and seeing how Pharah has a fucking jetpack, you don't even NEED to conc jump correctly. You can totally botch a jump but as long as you're headed in the right general direction with enough momentum, you can salvage everything else.
>>341262330
Yeah she really needs the splash damage buff, the rockets do like 30 damage outside of a direct hit.
>>341260713
100% true
>>341262295
And aiming her rockets is all she has. Pharah completely and utterly relies on your ability to aim well. She doesn't have face-roll skills like Reflect and Recall, can't self heal, and has no aimbot Ult.
>>341262489
Winston gets bodied by anyone with armor since he has literally zero ways to remove it if he misses his jump.
>>341262407
I've never seen someone so retarded
>hey guys my character only does 1dps, but it's okay because he's got a high skill floor because all the controls are inverted
>sure the guy you're playing does 42069dps and has permanent stunning but just means he's easier to play
>shouldn't nerf anyone, balance doesn't exist
jesus christ
>>341262862
That was sort of my point m8.
>>341262765
>You say those first two like they are at all hard to do man
Harder than any other tech in the game.
>>341262837
I disagree and it's pretty much the last change I'd make for her as it encourages more spam and less trying for direct hits. The best changes for her would be faster movement speed and/or some armour so she doesn't fold like wet paper. If widow gets properly nerfed (longer charge time, slower firing shots) that in and of itself would be a huge buff for her.
>>341239812
Good, McCree is a trash easy-mode character anyway.
I dunno why anyone would wanna nerf Widowmaker though, she's great and takes time to master when trying to predict people's movements. Maybe she's just OP on PC?
Also Tracer needs 200 hp imo.
>>341262669
Genji's got only one dash. Pharrah can set the stage for the fight. I'm not saying is a good matchup, but it's not as bad as you're making it seem,
>people think mccree will be significantly nerfed
You crybabies are going to be disappointed.
>>341255318
Snoipah main here. Widow is bullshit and needs to be toned down.
Hanzo's hitboxes are bullshit and can easily knock arrows at people with minimal effort for kills
>>341240194
It wouldn't be fine because it shits on characters like dva and tracer and symettra who have no choice but to be in close range, as long as mcree gets free kills for hitting flashbang he's going to be op
>>341263498
here's your (You)
>>341244957
Simplest strategy is Symmetra balls all up in their shit. Shitters can go fuck themselves saying she's only useful on the first defense point; Symmetra is a hard counter to Reinhard-Bastion formations.
If that doesn't work because of the Widow, poke her off of the doorway then coordinate moving into the left doorway by blocking with mei walls.
>>341263589
I was already ready to be disappointed based on the last dev comment about him.
>mccree only does ~600 damage instantly now instead of 800+
Wowie!
>Mercy on my team
>It's not me for once
Feels amazing. Too bad no one likes to play her.
>>341263308
Well maybe if she had some better mobility or even recovery options, I just feel like she's an awkward and unrewarding character to play where you get shredded in the air and can only rely on direct hits to do any real damage.
If she did better splash damage in the air, that might be cool.
>>341251990
You don't. Do you always take on Bastion turret mode 1v1 as well? You are not supposed to fight up close with him. It's that simple. He isn't OP or anything
>>341263501
He can also reflect anything she does and he kills pharah faster than she kills him if she misses a single bodyshot
>>341264151
Reflecting is just a cue for getting away. Either way none of this matters, it's pure theorycrafting.
>think Zen is fine if not slightly underpowered
>do well in groups and recently shit on a team of level 100-190 as solo healer
>all I get is hate because Zen sucks and doesn't fit the meta
There were plenty of times where I completely solo'd the Reaper and 76 trying to be sneaky and pop their ult behind us. I don't understand why people hate on Zen so much especially if the Zen is winning and getting gold and silver in across the board.
I just want a Zen buff so people will stop bitching when I don't want to play a boring ass support like Mercy.
>>341264015
If I was going to consider some way of buffing her damage output, it would be a UT style way of "charging" up a couple of rockets to fire simultaneously but I wouldn't even look at that before other changes.
>>341264237
It's not theorycrafting for me, I think the only time I have died against a pharah as genji is when a missile clipped me while I was running from a winston otherwise I usually just shit on them
>>341264335
I think it's just his tiny healthpool that holds him back, 50 more health would help him out a lot. People don't seem to realise how much damage he does or how helpful the orbs are.
>>341264514
I never get damage medals when I play him but I don't know how to aim with him yet
>>341247494
That sounds really good desu.
>>341264514
50 health would make him king of 1v1 fights
I think a speed boost and a minor heal buff would be fair
>>341264335
wow that is an incredibly masculine woman
>>341264514
150 with 25 being armor would probably fix most things
>>341258041
at this point
>>341264742
the secret is the right click almost never lands unless someone is being retarded so just chuck balls in the general direction of the discord target
>>341264934
He either needs one or both of his hp pips to be armor, or he needs another hp pip of shield. Basically, he needs to survive the fully charged widow bodyshot.
Name any game dev who does balance right. Look at Sakurai, his response to Marth being a top competitive character for two games and Meta Knight being broken in Brawl was to make them the second- and third-shittiest characters in Smash 4, and Samus and Zelda's state in 4 doesn't need to be pointed out because everyone knows how awful they are.
>>341262330
I'd rather she have some shields. Like 100 HP 100 shield. So she doesn't have to constantly scramble for health packs whenever she gets hit once. Armor really only works for ground characters since it stops 5 damage flat for every individual hit. Pharah usually gets blasted by one big hit.
>>341263589
Give me a good reason as to why fan the hammer, an almost instant damage ability, should be doing 425 damage. It should only be 300. That way it's not a totally free kill. Because as of now most fan bullets don't even need to connect to kill 2-3 of the six will kill almost the entire cast.
>>341258204
when symmetra puts up a teleporter your team starts screaming about it
she doesnt even make the callout, the dudes on your team just have teleporter intuition
>>341264934
Yeah that would work to, I just want to play him without being bodyshotted
Does Pharah "counter" anyone besides Bastion? Multiple characters seem to counter her quite easily.
>>341265115
even a single point of armor prevents him from dying from a full charge widow shot
>>341265157
Why shouldn't it? It's his thing. Just don't let him get in your face.
>>341265223
Junkrat and Hanzo
>>341265223
junkrat sorta
though the junkrat can just minejump away while she can do literally nothing about it
mercy need a nerf
>>341265223
Not really. I mean you can kind of piss off Meis, but that's because most Meis seem to forget they have a right click.
>>341265115
Potentially a Widow nerf would buff Zen as well. I agree with this guy >>341264335, he's a lot of fun to play and I do well with him, yet people always bitch and moan if you don't take Mercy. Being a top-tier waifu doesn't alleviate that she's dull as all fuck to play.
>>341265327
>Hanzo
Nah, not with Hanzo's auto aim and 4 foot wide hitboxes
>>341265327
>playing hanzo
>a pharah even tries touching jetpack in my line of sight
>arrow in the skull
Moving slowly in the air is just as easy to hit as someone moving slow on the ground
>>341265543
>Justice reigns- Ahhh!
>>341262330
>giving pharah armour
>impossible to take down as soldier without hitting a direct with a torpedo first
>making her better in close quarters too, letting her eat anything fast or even shotguns
>making widow even more important
no, fucking no, there's a reason they don't just give everyone a shitload of armour.
>>341265620
>Pop ult at a bad time
>'JUST-'
>>341263757
Triggered?
>>341265263
He doesn't even need to be directly in your face to kill you with it and he gets two of them. 850 damage in about 2-3 seconds. On what planet does this sound balanced? Also his ultimate resets his ammo count so if your feeling super ebin you can ult cancel and get three fan the hammers very quickly.
>>341239812
Good, they're boring as fuck to face.
>>341251990
I flashbang and fan him down.
>>341265327
>Hanzo
What the fuck
Widows will at least unscope half the time and try and skirmish with you in assault rifle mode
Hanzo will just fire his truck sized arrows in your general direction until either, or both, of you die.
>>341265742
Then 25 Armor
Pharah puts herself at gigantic risk by being in the air yet has nothing to compensate for it. Why do you think Reaper has 250 Health and not 200? He puts himself at risk by getting close to everyone. Pharah puts herself at risk by being in the air due to all the hitscan weapons in the game and she gets nothing for it.
>>341251990
I had a protracted 1v1 earlier when I was D.Va. He popped my mech so I just wrigled around for a while, stole the health pack nearby and killed him eventually, went on to get a Mercy brining up the rear.
Never seen such a bad McRee.
>>341265742
>Armor
>Stopping shotguns
u wot?
It shaves a flat 5 off the damage total, not 5 per pellet.
>>341251990
>Tracer
>Keep blinking to just the side of his view while shooting him
>Blink behind him, headshot him to death
>>341266224
That would still make her obnoxious as fuck against anything automatic if she's got a mercy on her, and she is plenty ridiculous already if she does.
Giving her some shields is better since that doesn't really change how good she is at her best, but reduces the frustration of being in a shit team by a ton.
And you're overstating the hitscan, there's only McCree, soldier and widow who'll consistently hit her beyond 5 yards. Now two of those should be getting nerfed, hard, and that's almost a good enough buff since Pharah can be a goddamn nightmare if she's left to prowl around.
>>341266546
wrong, it's 5 per damage isntance. Each pellet is an instance
>>341266841
*throws flashbang at ur feet*
*fans you*
nice try kid
>>341266546
Incorrect. It halves any damage less than five, and reduces by five any damage greater than five.
Each pellet is an individual shot that has this effect applied by armour. So each pellet that does, say, 4 damage normally will only do 2 damage. If 10 pellets were to normally hit for a cumulative 40 damage, they'll only do 20. Armour is specifically for these kinds of shots
>>341266546
Have you never seen a dva duel? it's the most retarded shit ever
>>341243998
>Eliminated By McCree
>Just dodge his stun
>>341260985
symmetra is a support when she clearly belongs in the defender category.
>>341267189
>>341267064
>>341266980
It seems it was changed from the "flat 5 off total damage" to "5 off per pellet" when the beta ended, so my mistake.
>>341265375
>didn't get PotG too
![Force_of_Nature(237)[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/DdIItcG.png "Force of Nature(237)[1]")
