Has he got a point?
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Has he got a point?
>dat backpedaling
>>341076369
>putting his opinions as facts and wondering why people are saying he is shit
>>341076369
Pearl clutch somewhere else, shithead.
If all you see in an action game is "killing a bunch a people" then you're choosing to ignore context.
>>341076369
>gross
How old is this guy?
>>341077173
How did he post them as facts? They clearly just opinions.
Talented devs make interesting games.
As it so happens, no one at E3 this year is talented.
>by an obviously true statement?
jesus, I can smell the smug from all the way over here
>>341077425
An opinion isn't "a true statement", it's an opinion
>>341076369
these faggots keep whining because video games are always about beating and/or shooting the fuck out of people but I've never seen one of them come up with other ideas that weren't shitty walking simulators
>I am not saying anything about video games causing violence of not
what's the problem then you fucking dipshit, there are some games out there that don't involve killing people, if you can't enjoy those either just stop playing video games and do something else, there is so much stuff you can spend your time on but instead you're forcing yourself to play/screech about video games you don't seem to enjoy
fuck off already
>>341077425
>by an obviously true statement
>>341077425
the part where he says
>by an obviously true statement
>>341077707
I didn't even see that tweet, i'm a fucking idiot.
>>341077425
He literally called his opinion an obviously true statement are you blind
>>341077425
>Why are so threatened by an obviously true statement?
>>341076369
Why should he be the arbiter of what kinds of fantasies are or aren't 'gross'? I think scat stuff seems gross, but I wouldn't give a damn whether or not video game companies catered to scat fetishists or not. Just because I find it repugnant doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. The exception might be child porn stuff. I heard somewhere that that sort of stuff is more likely to make pedos molest kids than keep them from molesting kids.
>>341076369
I think he blows something else aside from Jonathan
>>341077820
>>341077821
Yeah I fucked up>>341077896
Post games that aren't murder simulators. Here, I'll start.Blow can relate to Rusty, I'm sure.
I'd rather play a game where you murder people over a line puzzle book.
>>341078285
Jackie Chan
>>341076369
It is pretty fuckin' cool, though
>>341077239
>implying basement dwellers on a Lao etching board are more mature than a guy who runs his own game studio
hey, guess what, I have testicles
I quite like playing games where I murder niggas
>>341078285
Any of the dozens of stealth games where you can beat it by only stunning enemies instead of killing them.
>>341076369
>why do people make murder fantasies fun
>actually tweets that he enjoys playing shooters
He deserves all the shit he's getting for that bullshit.
>>341078604
The most worthless camo paint application ever
>>341076369
>Like, is it so hard to at least allow a question about whether something is a good idea?
I wasn't aware being called an ignorant jackass for trying to pass off ignorant opinions was making it "difficult" to ask questions.
>>341078687
At least we aren't trying to be the pontificates of morality.
>>341077442
I laughed way harder than this idea deserved, but it's sort of true. The industry (maybe all culture) is stuck in a creative rut where nothing is happening. No one in power has a sincere vision that isn't about printing normiebux or pushing a political agenda.
Post Notchs response
>I'm saying, if you enjoy fantasizing about stabbing people in the neck, that is kind of gross
>>341076369
>20 years ago, radical conservatives wanted to get rid of video games
>now, radical left wingers want to get rid of video games
what the fuck happened
I'm not fantasizing, only simulating. Are actors gross too?
>>341076369
wow.. really makes you think
but what if I like killing people?
>>341076369
I do infact fantasize about stabbing blow in the neck.
But I expect thats common
Why does he even make games then? Get out of the industry if you hate it so much.
Did you guys know that violence happened before video games existed? Weird, right?
I like to read. It's probably the only hobby I spend as much time on as vidya.
When I was about 16 I read Don Quixote. It was my father's favorite novel, and so I read it, and enjoyed it. It was a bit of a slog at parts, after all it's a 400 year old Spanish novel translated into English with 3-4 footnotes on every page. I still laughed a lot and was surprised at how well the humor holds up. It's a fucking important piece of the history of literature and deserves respect...
When I was in college I took a literature class as a blow off. Something to pad out my average and unwind, since I had always loved reading. The teacher (who introduced herself as a feminist on the first day) asked us what our favorite novels were.
Now, back then I was a little insecure. I was 19, in a new city with new people, so I wanted to sound smart. I said Don Quixote. The real answer at the time was Snow Crash, but I thought mentioning such a classic might make me seem smart. It was pretentious and I've grown up since then, but that's what I did, sue me.
The teacher went into a ten minute long condescending discussion about how problematic Don Quixote is. How worthless it was. How the fulcrum of its comedy was laughing at a man who is suffering from delusions, and how him being the subject of comedy is damaging to the mentally ill. She tore down an important piece of the history of literature because it didn't fit within her modern liberal sensibilities. It didn't matter that the book had so much more, in her mind it was garbage because the joke was a mental illness the author couldn't have even known existed.
These people are fucking maniacs so detached from reality they might as well fight some racist windmills.
>>341079573
Nothing. Radicals despise all forms of media and expression because they are a vehicle for ideas that are not their own. And they wish to quash those opposing ideas so that theirs are the only ones and can be forced upon others.
This is true no matter where they fall on a political spectrum
>>341076369
>>341079369
https://twitter.com/notch/status/742254757864038400
>>341076369
Fictional Morality is a thing, there is nothing weird or twisted about it.
>>341076369
What a typical beta faggot.
>>341076369
>dat gradual backdown
Until what he's saying is completely aside from what he once said.
>>341078803
The games still have killing in them, doesn't count.
Burger Time doesn't count because the burgers used to be cows and they were killed.
Tetris doesn't count because you're mercilessly destroying those blocks.
Dance Dance Revolution doesn't count because you're killing it on the dance floor.
>>341076369
Is this even real?
I wouldn't normally say something like this, but holy shit what a fucking cuck.
>So far EA has been the only ones not wear those rainbow ribbons
That's some pottery right there
Fuck guys, after playing Braid I feel completely amazing. I crushed some dudes head in and then reversed time over and over to do it again and again. This is a great game to appeal to sadists such as myself :D
>>341076369
>gross
that's the SJW word
>>341079573
It's funny how quick it looped from everyone kicking out Jack Thompson with "We want our violent games! It's just pixels, it can't hurt you" to Anita "Remove this filth, it shames women" right back to "This game is violent, we're raising mass murders! Ban this shit" but all the journalist just go along with it without realizing the irony
>>341079573
The liberal cuckold movement happened.
>>341079271
What you call pushing a political agenda is only seen negatively because it's done poorly, in a crass and blunt manner. If a work raises questions and then answers them it's not necessarily pushing an agenda, just getting the author's own opinion or worldview across to an audience.
Written like a true shithead, but yeah, pretending to kill people is a mildly fucked up hobby to have.
I'm even willing to bet that there is in fact some shaky correlation between video games and IRL killstreaks, just like there's a correlation between gluten and some people shitting their brains out. You have to have something weird going on in your ass to be suscepitble.
Still, it's wicked cool
>>341076369
but i don't fantasize about that kinda stuff
i just like vidyagames
>>341079904
Damn. My English teacher just let us watch movies in class since he was a reviewer.
>>341080102
>you will never shitpost and laugh at retards on twitter with notch while stuffing your face with the mountain of candy he has in his mansion
>>341080513
Oceania was always at war with Eurasia.
>>341076369
I wanna stab that cunt in the neck. How much of a bitch do you have to be to make these kinds of posts and actually believe them? Geez.
>>341076369
>People like things I dont like. Waaaahhhh!!
>>341080469
>I have to exclusively use subjective language when discussing an objective "fact," because everything I say is just vague justification for my agenda, with no regard given to the details of how or why I come to my conclusions.
These people literally use the [STEP 1, ???, PROFIT!] formula.
>>341079904
I respect you because you actually read El Quijote,Anon
>>341080227
>Dance Dance Revolution doesn't count because you're killing it on the dance floor.
>Implying Braid wasn't a fluke.
>Implying Jonathan Blow wasn't always a pretentious numale on a high horse.
Link related:
http://insomnia.ac/reviews/xbox360/braid/page_01.php
I want to punch Blow so hard.
And Jesus Christ, that last name is just so limp-wristingly faggy.
>>341080852
This is reversing the chain of events. People who are already fucked up might enjoy killing people in video games then graduate to actual killings.
But correlation is not causation.
>>341079573
sjws happened but according to some in /v/(don't know where they're really from)
Sjws are just a boogeyman
>>341079904
I worry about the next generation of English professors. The only ones that are cool are the really old ones that care about teaching historically significant and influential works, and what is good prose. And those ones are retiring and dying off.
If only profs could choose their successors.
>>341081791
>Not that you'd know.
Based fat guy.
>>341076369
i think anyone that wants to talk about ethics of video game violence needs to beat drakengard
>>341081791
I wanna retire and just shitpost on twitter all day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTdgHsifK38
>>341081791
>Not that you'd know
>Hey guise Im gonna talk about vdya developers making mass murder fantasy games in teh wake of an actual mass murder in the same country and then wonder why some people might take issue with the timing
Jonathon, if you're reading this, you're a fucking faggot.
>>341080785
It is an issue of bad writing/world design, with zero subtlety or nuance. They may as well have morality tutorials, secular sermons on the word of the crowd as truth and light to lead the way.
>>341076369
>Demeaning the death of 50 people to push your garbage political beliefs on the public, then not even being able to stand beside your turd.
Wow what a fucking faggot. Fucker doesn't care about the people that died, he just cares about people liking what he doesn't like.
>>341081791
Fucking Notch. Living the dream
>>341081791
wow Notch is really handing the BTFOs left and right.
how can one person be so based.
>>341082339
We all do, man.
We all do.
>>341076678
>that reading copmprehension
At no point did he backpedal
That being said i disagree with him, there's nothing wrong with having fun killing people in a video game
>>341081791
I really like notch now that he's retired.
>>341081791
Holy fuck.
Blow is going to need medical attention after being rekt that hard.
>>341076369
If he thinks his first statement, and his last statement have anything to do with each other, then maybe it HIM who has something wrong
>>341076369
His last name is Blow.
He has no credibility.
>>341081791
Based notch, singlehandedly saving Sweden from complete cuckoldry.
Liberals are the people who are more offended and worried about people killing digital humans in a video game than muslims/non-whites murdering people in real life because one of those things conflicts with their obnoxious world view and the other doesn't.
>>341081481
You remember wrong anon, Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.are you a spy anon? Thoughtpolice says you are
>>341080102
blown
the
fuck
out
>>341077239
>gross
Why do you guys get so triggered by this word.
>>341081791
did he hire someone to do twitter for him? He never had a sense of humor before last week
>>341076369
>Like,
is he a 16 year old girl?
>>341079904
Did you read anything by Doyle? Currently reading The Sign of the Four. Shit is great.
>>341082596
>how can one person be so based.
He doesn't have to worry abour upsetting some PC faggot SJWs who michgt try to get him fired.
So he can basically say exactly what he thinks with no fucks given.
I envy notch. With all those billions, comes freedom from Politically Correct slavery.
>>341083169
Yeah, I've been wondering the same thing. The tweets are great now, but the change was so sudden.
>>341080102
>Don't drag me into your mire of intentional delusion.
Beautiful.
Who the fuck is Johnathan Blow?
>>341083169
>He never had a sense of humor before last week
Notch isn't joking.He's stating facts.
>>341082787
Also, games don't sell the mass murder fantasy. They sell the treasure hunter fantasy. They sell the espionage fantasy. At "worst" they sell a war fantasy. Only one game in recent memory sold the mass murderer fantasy, and that was hatred. That games got tons of shit. So I don't understand how he can say that.
>>341081791
While I appreciate the burn, the two statements:
>Studios are working hard to build fantasies about how cool it is to be a mass murderer
>Studios want to make money and make games people want
are not in any way in opposition. If JBlow was trying to imply that it is the studios who are pushing their agenda of violence and murder than Notch's comment would be accurate, but I'm not sure JBlow was implying any sort of causality here.
>>341083751
Guy who made ONE (1) good game by accident and now believes he is the messiah of video games as an art form.
nothing wrong with that
killing people is a lot of fun. im sure the kebab had a blast killing those faggots
or atleast, he would had if they didnt killed him before he armed the bomb.
Man I like JBlow and his games but he sure does say some dumb shit sometimes.
>>341083751
He spent ten years making a grid puzzle game for mobile devices.
>>341076369
All the people that say this kind of shit always forget to mention movies, books and even music, all of which glorify violence. Millions of people love Game of Thrones and the Marvel movies, both of which have gratuitous levels of violence and wanton destruction but yeah, lets not talk about that, ITS THE VIDEOGAMES.
>>341076369
Has there ever been a more accurate last name for a person?
Also, what is the fuck is going on with pic related? Are the jews finally coming to take me away?
>>341081791
That "review" is setting off my Poedar something fierce.
Killing people is manly.
Men play video games.
Despite being losers, they can't deny their nature.
Therefore, they enjoy stimulating their inherent manliness by killing in video games.
Not that a limp-wristed fuck like Blow would know anything about manliness.
>>341076369
>that thing you like is icky
Kinda like suckin dicks, like OP/blow.
>>341076369
>you live in a time era where full horseshoe effect is in place
Where my late 20's/early 30's bros at?
Remember when batshit conservatives were the ones concernes with vidya violence and nudity.
How the tables have turned.
>>341081791
What a legend
>>341076369
I take the opinions of random people on twitter very seriously, more so than I do actual scientific studies.
>>341076369
Wow. He seriously went into damage control and walked his position back since yesterday.
Have you niggers been fucking with him?
>>341083124
Because it's emotionally charged that masquerades as rational criticism and it also is phrased as such to shift the burden of antagonistic blame away from the offended individual and toward the subject they are criticizing.
It's people with problems trying to say they're fine, and it's just fine things that have the problem.
I get "triggered" by it because it's sophistry at it's worst.
>>341083523
Nigga, I know you didn't just compare pulp adventure serials to Don Quixote.Doyle is pretty good so long as you understand that what you are reading has no real significance or social commentary in it. I liked The Lost World a lot more than most Holmes stories
this is actually kinda.... true...
>>341079904
this totally happened.
with every bullshit post like this, you just fuel the alt-right retard fire please stop
>>341082596
>That dirty Notch! I'm going to call his employer right now to get him fired for disa--oh wait
I love to murder.
>>341076369
Does he harp on violent movies and tv shows? If not then he's a faggot
>>341081983
That's why I selected the term I did.
I also don't think that mass shooters use video games as a subsitute for what they really want. They were probably already immersed in video games, action movies or gun culture long before they developed a politic or psychosis that leads to real violence.
I'm just saying that there's probably a social price for all the things we personally enjoy, that we can't justifiably deny to those people who it might be unhealthy for. Same as everything else in the world ever.
>>341084551
The author was a convicted felon who fled from the US and hid the content of his website behind a paywall. He's rumored to had died in a car crash last year. He was vocally critically about SJWs (he called them artfags though) and game journos long before GamerGate was thing though.
>mass shooting happens
>immediately jump on twitter to try to shame people for liking vidya
What goes through these peoples brains and hearts is beyond me.
>>341079904
That'a a very illustrative story, thanks for writing it.
>>341083169
A man has been uncucked
>>341085196
they get attention for doing it
>>341083123
>>341081791
He's crafting a mine...inside my heart.
>>341081791
Notch is great
>>341084747
You're right anon, JBlow does have a point. As a child I was never interested in gun violence, nor glorifying police officers/soldiers for shooting bad guys until I played video games. Honestly, playground games like Cowboys and Indians and Cops and Robbers were probably based on some obscure NES game or some shit.
>>341076369
He's just mad that no one wanted to play his pretentious grid puzzle game.
>>341076369
Not at all, fucking pussies removed so far away from their nature they're unfit for human beings.
>>341084530
You've been chosen anon
10837443 THE KING COME DOWN
>>341085438
>trading bants with fucking rock cock 64
holy fuck
>>341085196
>>341084747
bodies ain't even cold yet and already the spin crews are hard at work
fucking vultures
>>341085196
I to hate how WWI glorified guns. Why couldn't we have a WWI game were we hold hands and hug the enemy until the war is over. Historical accuracy be damned.
>>341077804
i think he's trying to say that people who enjoy violent video games are people who fantasize about violence. even if they don't act on their violent fantasies he is morally superior to them because he doesn't enjoy violent video games.
i think he's wrong.
https://twitter.com/Totalbiscuit/status/742311630520909825
>>341085628
>pretend it didn't happen
>every presenter so far has been wearing ribbons and expressing condolences
>>341085196
People use tragedies all the time to push their agenda. Politicians escpecially It's fucking disgusting
>>341085416
>>341085196
>>341084747
You know what I did after the shooting? I PLAYED A SHOOTING GAME. No amount of real life murder will ever make shooting games not fun. One of the biggest games at E3 right now is a shooting game that glorifies the deaths of real people in history. GO BE FAGGOTS SOMEWHERE ELSE.
>>341082662
He backpedaled a whole lot and then contradicted himself on it later like most of diseased faggots like him.
>>341076369
lots of people enjoy violence, which is why violent games are popular. and violent movies, violent books, etc. the fact society isn't a bloodbath proves that most of those are good people who can control themselves in everyday life. and even then, most of violent games have the pretence of some acceptable context (like fighting an alien invasion) specifically because people don't like doing the wrong thing even in video games.
being good or bad is not about your feelings, it's about having control of yourself. the only people who want to push the idea that having bad thoughts or feelings is equivalent to actually doing something bad are control-freaks who want to police your mind.
>>341076369
so many pussy indiedevs trying to cater to the sjw crowd
I'm pretty sure Notch just hired some witty dude to ghostshitpost under his name.
Notch NEVER had a sense of humor, and his grasp of English is just slightly above par, not enough to make puns and jokes of this caliber.
>>341080785
An opinion or worldview could be called an agenda too, but only if you disagree with it
He would have a point if the Orlando shooting had ANYTHING to do with video games, but it didn't. It had to do with homophobia brought on by religion.
>>341085881
SJW's always act shocked that the video game industry doesn't immediately shut down after every shooting
I dunno. I mean, playing Skyrim never made it seem like getting into a fight with a bear would be super fun but it did make me want to beat the shit out of Todd Howard. It could go either way.
>>341086076
LOL, this.
This shit is getting way too much attention from the video game market.
>>341085628
>they could be helping the families of those affected and actually accomplish something
>instead they will blame videogames
Why even bother pretending like you give a shit then?
>>341085196
#FullMcintosh is at it again.
>>341078438
>>341076369
Had to look up who the fuck this was and why its allowed on /v/. Glad I didn't buy the Witness. I was planning on it, then figured I'd wait for reviews. A lot of people didn't seem to like it so I decided not to get it. Fuck people like this.
These actually seem like pretty reasonable assumptions if you ask me.
>>341079904
I'm going to reply to this with memes. Well earned.
>>341084747
movies, books, and tv shows all glorify gun violence.
>I like shooter games, but have zero appetite for them after events like this
it's not like they've been planning E3 for months, and they aren't going to change anything just because there was a mass shooting. Yeah, it sucks. People died. People were hurt. Shit happens.
it's like saying:
>how could they have not seen this shooting coming??? wtf gamerz???
if it didn't happen no one would be making these asinine tweets about muh shooterz = violence
>>341084678
Because a lot of neckbeards have been described as 'gross' and it triggers them
I guess it's nice video games give people an outlet so they might they deal with their violent urges through catharsis, rather than, you know, act it in real life.
Video games allow you to shoot people without harming them.
If everyone in real life was an immortal being we would be shooting at each other all the time just for shit and giggles.
>>341086076
But anon, killing soldiers in WWI in the new Battlefield trailer is just like a terrorist shooting up a Gay club in Florida. How can you be so blind to see the similarities!
Over three thousand people died as a direct result of the existence of CARS just in the last twenty four hours.
And here we have these INCONSIDERATE WHITE MEN ADVERTISING THE NEXT FORZA GAME, FEATURING CARS. THEY HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN SCRAPED OFF THE ROAD YET AND YOU'RE ALREADY MAKING A GAME ABOUT IT. I AM BEYOND TRIGGERED.
>cecil the lion is kill
>go to zoo to cheer myself up
>see lions in cages
What the fuck zoo industry? How can you promote this senseless violence?
>>341085971
I'm not even mad desu
>>341084825
>if it doesn't fit my narrative then it's obviously bullshit post
Nobody fuels the alt-right fire harder than retards like you
>>341086617
I'd be mad too if something used as an insult was used as pseudo-intellectual criticism.
>>341080469
Great now I have to make sure I don't use that in a post so I don't get a million SJWWWWWWWWWW replies
>>341079993
eloquently put anon
>>341084747
>muslim born and raised in the states is radicalised and murders gays in the name of his religion
>"Well guys, I think we all know what needs to be criticised after this tragedy....
>"video games"
>>341084747
why have ellipses become the calling card of mega retards
>>341081791
I thought notch is a sjw. And a real one.
>>341081791
All that shit /v/ talked(talks) and I have nothing but respect for his sick burns.
>>341078687
>The Witness
>Game
Pick one
Oh shut the fuck up, Blow.
The only real talents you have are concealing your obscenely conceited and pretentious nature a bit better than others that are just as conceited and pretentious as you are. Also, you have some skill at picking decent artists and musicians to make your games appealing to a decent degree. You struggle constantly from becoming forgotten on a daily basis because you're the poor man's Molyneux and guess what? He dropped out.
Follow suit.
>people unable to compartmentalize
>drag their conversation of a tragedy into everything
I doubt any of these people have ever had any interaction in the orlando lgbt scene, let alone had anyone they know die in the shooting.
>>341083124
>>341086617
>le trigger meme
literally any and everything is a "trigger" now. People figured out that "u mad?" is the perfect thing to say. Either they are, and they lose, or they aren't, and get mad trying to prove they aren't. Hell, you can even try it with "triggered". The more they say "i'm not triggered" the more you can say they're a creepy obsessed weirdo harassing you.
>>341087149
because it's the laziest way to add emphasis to a sentence
>>341087143
it wasn't a muslim guys
he was obviously a gaymer
U G H
G R O S S
>>341087149
Even simple thoughts come difficult to those who hate thinking.
>>341076369
>Has he got a point?
No. What I want to do in a gsme has no basis in reality and that is something he acknowledged in his tweets. If I feel some sort of joy from running and gunning down civvies in GTA, but it doesn't influence my behavior or beliefs at all, why does it matter?
Furthermore, most games are not just limitless slaughter. They follow stories and outside of a very few you are hardly being a mass murder. His use of the phrase is an obvious emotional play.
Finally, this whole idea that the videogame is beholden to the moral whims of society is absurd. If it sells that's all that matters.
Lefties can't tell fiction from reality. More news at 11.
For real, I hate the asinine train of thought that violent video games somehow make folks more violent in the real world.
The shitskin that shot up Orlando certainly wasn't an avid gamer. So, what's the dude's point? What's his argument? I'm not saying it wasn't a tragedy and all that, but somehow saying the video game industry is even remotely responsible or liable for this is beyond retarded.
>>341087281
You know he can't hear you, right?
>>341085438
Probably still pissed about that minecraft review by RC64.
>>341085043
Is Icycalm really dead?
>>341085628
How do you profit off a mass shooting? Link it to gaming.
>>341086334
Is he gonna pull another "I was just pretending to be retarded!"?
How bad did The Witness flop?
>>341076369
Yes, let's ban games. Now that I think about it movies are also violent, ban them too. Fuck it, let's go full orwellian, ban the Internet and free thought too.
>>341087281
he cant read your post you autist
>>341088051
don't forget books anon. it would probably be best to burn them so that they don't get reprinted.
>>341087281
I remember when it was becoming increasingly apparent that there was a gap between vidya consumers and journalists they threw Molyneux under the bus to try and prove "Nuh uh! We aren't people who use our podiums to give coverage to our friends and act as another branch of corporate PR! See we can be critical of game devs, look how savage we were against Molyneux"
>>341077442
>Talented devs make interesting games.
Not true.
Interesting developers make interesting games.
In order for people to be interested, you need to be interesting.
>>341086348
There's literally nothing wrong with guns in video games. The only people who would decide to shoot up a place because of video games would be someone who can't distinguish reality from fantasy, and at that point it's not vidyas fault, it's societys for letting this mentally ill person in the world without help
Do these people honestly believe that there wouldnt have been a mass killing if our culture didnt value the right to self defense and the entertainment value of firearms? Have these people never heard of bombings? Are they completely oblivious to ideological killings that happened before firearms or even explosives existed?
Are we going to start shaming cooks for valuing large knives in the preparation of food because millions were killed with blades in the crusades?
>>341084747
This is fucking disgusting. What goes through someone's head when they use a religiously motivated hate crime and the deaths of civilians to push some unrelated agenda
>>341084747
>now every call of duty has a sad, slowmo of the guy you shots life playing out before you can continue you play
>if you throw a grenade it gets all jumbled
>>341087292
I had a gay friend of mine discuss Orlando with me and at one point he mentioned that it hurt more being a part of the group being hated against. I was dumbfounded because, as a human, I'm a part of every tragedy that befalls mankind . But no I guess we should only care when our sexualities match up.
Stabbing fools is cool as fuck, in my opinion. It's especially cool when I'm not actually killing a person for real since I don't have to deal with the whole "Oh, I just took away a human life" issue.
>Johnathan Blow blaming video games for societal woes
into the washup bin he goes.
>>341076369
I would love if there was a good detective game where you could solve crimes and piece together a conspiracy. I don't know how that could be made into a good open ended game though.
>>341085782
Funnily enough, during the first Christmas of WWI, allied and German troops ended up calling a ceasefire (disregarding orders from their superiors to do otherwise) and sang Carol's and played soccer in No Man's Land. I think it is called the Christmas miracle of 1914?
Quite the interesting event. Eventually, some officers had to shoot the enemy soldiers to get the to start killing each other again.
>>341085951
He actually didn't back pedal at all, at least on the OP's picture. He said "fantasies about murder" are fucked up, not once did he say that it would somehow make real murderers.
He's wrong, but consistently so.
>>341086334
>violence is inherently patriarchal and male
This guy has problems.
>>341087742
His Steam account had no activity since last August and his last forum posts on both of his sites were from around that time period. If he's not dead, he's probably in jail or on the run.
>>341076369
The only thing that might generally constitute a point is the fact that the Shooter market is bloated and there is a severe lack of quality puzzle games.
However that point gets missed badly by the person trying to make it and instead goes MUH MURDER SIMULATORS.
Seriously, Try playing The Island of Doctor Brain or The Seventh Guest then come back and tell me that your walking simulators are high quality storytelling mediums.
>>341088635
Maybe we should start insinuating that all these people linking it to games might be gay for their need to bring it up.
>selling a game about walking very slowly around one island solving puzzles for FORTY
>FUCKING
>DOLLARYDOOS
No thanks. I'd rather play games about shooting people.
>shooting happens
>suddenly ppl want to raise awarness for an issue by scapegoating vidya
>if the shooting didnt happen nobody gave a fuck
funny how that oppertunism works to push selfish agendas
Honestly though, why ARE most games about killing? I don't have a problem with it, I just don't know why I like it
>>341088758
John Blow is a faggot, but you're an illiterate retard.
>>341076369
>Blowhard being a Blowhard again
What a surprise.
"Hurr why aren't people making more connect the dot games where ther reward is an FMV cutscene of me".
Fucking retard. If JAI turns out to be shit or badly managed he's basically done.
>>341089210
because it's an engaging way to solve conflict that is almost universally understood
>hunting and killing is an inherent biological imperative to any non-vegetarian species
>why do people enjoy violent games?
>>341086334
Maybe he just doesn't want to face that violence is inherently exciting for humans and therefore makes for easy, exciting gameplay. It doesn't matter if you are shooting people or robots, you are still being destructive and violent and that's fun.
>>341089029
It's just a power thing. Humans love telling other humans how they should live their lives. We're going back to an age of segregation under the guise of unity. It's fucking mind blowing.
>>341084747
Because shooting people IS fun. Or at least, simulating it.
Why do kids play robber and gendarme with sticks? Why do adult get into arguments, not always successfully restraining themselves?
Because humans are to some extent violent creatures and videogames appeal to that nature in an altogether pretty socially acceptable way.
>>341076369
the world would be a much better place without niggers
2bh we should kill all niggers
>1990s
>politicians whine about video games being 'murder simulators'
>game developers and journalists mock them
>2010s
>game developers and journalists whine about video games being murder simulators
ayyyyy what the fuck
>>341076369
>why are you threatened
He never let any one answer him. He think disagreement is being threatened
someone explain to me how the FUCK do you manage to shoot 50 (fity) people without someone putting you down, police forces or someone else
thats a fuckload of shooting
>>341088206
Yes let's burn books, it's totally a very progressive way to show progressiveness, totally not done in the 15th century in Florence by the extremist catholic church!
>>341089590
SHHHHHH VIOLENCE IS AN ARTIFICIAL STATE A PERFECT UTOPIA WHERE EVERONE IS ALWAYS FRIENDLY AND NICE IS POSSIBLE SHUT UP SHUT UP STOP BEING PROBLEMATIC
>>341089157
>Normal person
>50 were killed? That's horrible, I pray for their families. This is a tragedy
>Liberal
>YES! TIME TO BLAME VIDYA FOR THIS. I FINALLY GOT SOME AMMO FOR SHIT OUT A ARTICLE. THANK YOU, TRAGEDY
What is he talking about? This E3 has had nothing different than previous ones with regards to violence. Must be an American thing because it's the only 1st world country that has a mass murderer problem.
>makes inferior puzzle games that people buy solely because he gets PR from his in-crew
>whines about different genres of games when he can't make even a single good one in his own
Okay?
>>341086334
>Ininuating I might enjoy tea, cupcakes, or hugs
All this shit is good so of course he doesn't like them. He doesn't like anything.
>>341089851
They were in a gun free zone.
>>341089851
Aren't nightclubs guarded as well? Shouldn't someone on staff have had a gun?
>>341089851
Only one person tried to attack him from the reports.
Video games aren't going to stop Muslims from killing everyone they don't agree with
>>341089851
Killed 50 and injured 50 more.
Have you seen how many people you can pack into a nightclub? That shit was probably packed and loud as hell. Nobody probably realized that there was shooting at first, until it was too late.
>>341076369
big words coming from a man who fantasizes about being stabbed in the butt
>>341080785
That's a propaganda game right there buddy and that's why people don't like that.
>yield constantly to a religion that goes against everything you stand for because it's mostly comprised of brown people
>said religion brainwashes a brown person into murdering your precious homos because that religion hates them
>scramble to find a way to make this about anything than what it actually is so you can somehow point the blame at the same targets (LE NERDY CIS FUCKING WHITE MALES) that are easy to bully and won't kill you and so your world view isn't challenged at all
Every person who discusses this shooting without mentioning Islam at all is basically too far gone into the liberal cult to talk about anything with.
>>341089851
Faggots weren't carrying, and it was a nightclub so they were all drugged up, lots of noise going on.
Nietzsche was a goddamn prophet.
Remember all the ridicule he got?
>>341089303
>don't have to read to know he's full of shit anyway. Libtards don't use english by its oxford defined words. they made bullshit up with existing words with new meanings
He saying murder fantasies is a bad idea is saying video games causes violence outside video games. he's pissing in the beehive.
>>341077425
Loaded questions. Like my asking you: Are you single or have ever raped babies?
>>341090242
From the casualty maps, people found out right fucking quick. There was only one body on the dance floor, and unless he dragged the bodies around, most people died in the entrance probably trying to get out.
>>341089851
Because everyone ran off and tried to hide inside a club, or a building where most doorways inside don't have doors, much less locks.
>>341089851
Nightclubs are insanely packed. Especially on a saturday night.
Haven't you ever seen that nightclub fire video?
>>341090479
he still deserved it, and so does everybody else today touting his same message.
>>341076369
>>341078438
literally and figuratively basks in the smell of his own farts
I don't have Twitter but make the point that the purpose of terrorism is to terrorise populations and damage their psyche and ability to function.
9/11 was partially successful not for knocking down two towers, but for financially devastating airlines for months afterwards, ushering in TSA abuse, patriot act, Iraq war fervour etc.
If you change your gaming behaviour after an Islamic terrorist attack, you're caving in to what the terrorist wants, which is submission and behavioural changes. You're literally letting the terrorists win, if you can't stomach playing FPS games that means you've been successfully terrorised.
>>341076369
I agree with him when it comes to the industry at large, but I don't give much of a fuck about E3 so I wouldn't know how the event goes.
>>341089851
so many drunk and wasted people with all them drug and alcohol m8 go out and live a little some time soon... hopefully without a shooter to bring you down from it to quickly
>>341089851
He had one of these and shot the one armed guard coming into the building.
>>341090171
>get mowed down in a gun free zone
should have stayed home anddodged a bullet
>>341086994
Or to form an opinion. Because that's all it is. Pedophilia is gross, Furries are gross, Fanservice is gross. Gayness is gross These trigger so many people.
>>341090634
Also, one guy who was escaping blocked an exit behind him so the gunman couldn't use it....subsequently locking a bunch of other people in as well.
>>341080227
>Dance Dance Revolution doesn't count because you're killing it on the dance floor.
Under-rated post
>>341089851
Nightclubs are dark, loud and full of drunk people.
>>341076369
maybe
people literally fuck people of same sex in the ass though, that's kinda weird too and yet they're not ostracized nowadays
>>341087576
>I'm not saying it wasn't a tragedy
But it wasn't. Only degenerates died. If anything, we should celebrate it with more guns and more fag removal.
>>341090954
Did he? I didn't see any armed guard reported on the casualty map. I assume it was a doorman and not just a wandering guard. Also the only reported resistance was one off duty cop who didn't even have a gun.
>>341091035
literally something Homer Simpson would do.
Don't these faggots literally say the same shit every year?
>T-t-t-too much violence
>>341084825
>alt-right retard fire
I'd love to know what alt-right is. People who used to be liberals but got fed up with all the bullshit rhetoric?
>>341090501
No, it isn't. It's two ideas that can match up but don't necessarily.
It's no different from me saying that if you believe in democracy, then that must mean you'll be voting for Hillary Clinton.
>>341089535
Telling humans that violent video games and loli media is acceptable is telling people how to live their lives
/pol/ anti-sjws and the alt right is infinitely worse than sjws and muh liburl boogeymen
>>341091232
>that's kinda weird too and yet they're not ostracized nowadays
Ummm....
No, see pic related. Porn has the same effect.
The prudes are pro-violence and pro-rape.
>>341091035
Oh THAT'S why the entrance hall was a fucking bloodbath.
Jesus christ.
>>341091430
pretty much. whoever doesn't fall into the left or the right is alt-right, funny enough. it still puts them on a side
>>341091303
He did in one episode.
>>341084747
>shooting that happened for reasons that weren't video games
>hey, we should stop making shooters because that will totally stop people from murdering
How did video games even get into the argument? Might as well blame movies, books and tv shows while he's at it.
Why the fuck aren't we pass this already? People don't kill because that shit. They kill because they're fucked in the head. Stop looking for goddamn scapegoats.
Fuck I mad
>>341090954
>hiring a one-armed man to guard your club
Jesus what were they THINKING?
>>341076369
Violence is cool and simulating it in a harmless environment seems like a pretty good idea. It's the same deal with sports.
>>341091430
I'm pretty sure it's just the term the cool kids use for retarded (read: all) /pol/fags
>>341090954
>>341090242
>>341090336
>>341090671
>>341090896
>>341091153
so you are telling me, a guy comes up with a fucking with a assault rifle and a crapton of magazines and no one was even SLIGHTLY suspicious?
>hiding an AR as bulge in your pants for a gay nightclub
>>341091278
Well, the only reported resistance before the cops arrived.
>>341091492
democracy is dead. it's an oligarchy now. and the oligarchy prefers Islam over the gays now.
>>341076369
>ugh, stabbing people in the neck, gross mom
>>341076369
No none of these guys from good ole' Jack Thompson until now have had a point other than getting attention and making careers for themselves.
>>341086334
>doesn't enjoy tits, violence, or masculinity
>doesn't enjoy tea, cupcakes, or hugs
what the fuck does he enjoy then??
>>341091525
Fuck off faggot, everyone's trying their best to please your degenerate ass
>>341091525
well they're getting shot and im getting bullied on twitter
according to some that's literally the same if not worse
>>341090819
He is right there is something called the Bozo doll experiment which is like psychology 101. It has been reproduced a billion times and clearly shows that humans imitate the behavior of others to some extent, even if they only see it on screen.
Video games and violent imagery do desensitize you towards violence, too, the army has been using this trick for decades. It doesn't mean anybody who plays a video game will become a killer. It just means that some will be influenced negatively, towards violent thoughts.
But god forbit someone critizies your hobby.
>>341091828
They were distracted Anon
>>341091650
a nuclear meltdown drill, but still same fucking effect.
>>341091869
>Can't even keep track of a discussion without derailing it into some sort of retarded rant
Take your pills, you schizophrenic retard.
>>341076369
>Gross
Why do americunts love this word so much?
This coming from the guy who made a game whose themes consist of fetishizing the Manhattan project and Nukes.
Counterpoint from a far more successful faggot.
>>341091430
Not even close. The alt-right is people who feel that "modern conservatism" is basically just a lighter shade of liberalism. And because of that, they feel that it is doomed to failure because the liberalism of today is the conservative of tomorrow.
liberal would accused a conservative of being a fascist and a racist. And the conservative would spend time saying "No I'm not" and waste time by being on the defensive, hence their nickname of "cuckservative". An alt-righter would say "Yes I am, so what? What is wrong with fascism and racism?"
>>341092121
don't say bullshit that can take the discussion into places then, retard. your metaphors mean nothing.
>>341079904
students in yale are petitioning to remove white famous poets. They are claiming minorities are literally walking out of class because of it.
Interesting times.
>>341092050
Bozo doll is about ACTUAL people, not fantasy. It's about following what you perceive others to actually be doing, which requires ACTUALLY BELIEVING WHAT YOU SEE IS REAL.
DURR HURR DUUUH VIOLEENCE IS BAAAD HUUUR IM A IMPORTNT GAME MAN
>>341092095
Apparently wasn't from there though. It's a joke account posting lots of stuff like that.
>>341091654
>Why the fuck aren't we pass this already?
Because journalists make too much money off of easy clickbait. The minute they run out of things to complain about they'll lose their jobs
>>341092207
Why are you so obsessed with countries as to randomly bring one up?
>>341091921
Conning feminists and nu-males out of money
>>341088019
Self loathing and femdom
>>341092050
Bozo was a novel doll. Try doing it with a person, when the kid has experience and knowledge with what can and cannot be done to them.
>>341092585
I know, I just wanted everyone to admire his ability.
>tfw can't suck own dick
>>341090479
Here's a fun experiment. Tie Thompson to a quote from these nuts jobs and they are 1:1 to him.
>>341092354
How does this counter what he said at all
>>341083124
It's a non argument word. Otherwise sane people who like violent video games do not often fantasize about stabbing people in the throat specifically believe it or not.
>>341076369
>I'm not saying anything about not distungishing fantasy from reality
>but I am saying you are horrible people because I can't distungish fantasy from reality
>>341092441
It's the same thing as saying "you said you liked reading so that must mean you love The Catcher in the Rye"
Better, you dipshit?
>>341092050
generally speaking anon people only appreciate criticism that comes from a place of mutual understanding and enjoyment
saying stuff like UGH VIOLENCE isn't a critique, it's just blanket shaming.
>>341076369
twitter is not a video game
>tfw SJW's tried to infect metal and it failed hard
>tfw they also failed with horror movies
>oh man, no one liked my shitty line puzzle game
>is it because I make shitty, boring games?
>NO, its because they are dumb sick fucks who just like killing!
blow it out your ass, john
>>341091430
Neo nazis
>>341092930
"Thompson or Twitter?" would be an amazing website.
>>341079904
You read any of his other stuff? I really liked his exemplary novels.
>>341082662
>and I'm not against it
>that's kind of gross
What's obvious is he is against it. His "obviously true stament" however could and will be argued
>>341084747
There is no way in hell anyone saw this coming, and they would just up and decide to change their presentation they have been working on for months in order to please some literally who gaming journalist faggots.
>Nothing but strawman arguments
>My emotions are more important than your factual arguments
How does this hack have a job?
>>341093082
But i do like The Catcher in the Rye.
Now you confused me.So you like Sex so here are 6 niggers to rape you.
>>341092454
No that is simply untrue. The children in the experiment saw a >role model< beating the doll and imitated their >behavior<. It is not about "fantasy" or "reality", those words didn't come up in the experiment. It is about children consuming violent media in which a role model acts violently. It is pretty straight forward.
And as many children are consuming a lot of media with role models acting aggressively it is pretty clear the effect will carry over to some extent.
I work in an elementary school and could give you loads of anecdotal evidence, but I think the Bozo experiment is enough for a solid argument.
>>341089851
Do you really think a bunch of lgbtqhdtykssbndsh are going to actually do something courageous? They're used to just complaining to get what they want.
Fuck off neogaf mods
>>341093202
It's not even about feminism anymore, it's about males trying to self flagellate hard enough to gain the supposed approval of women.
>>341090397
probably too long for most anons to read but he called it.
>>341091805
>anyone who disagrees with you is from /pol/
you people are just as bad with your othering.
>>341093164
according to the BBC, it's the number 1 video game ever.
Yes. it's a load of ballocks.
>>341079904
>These people are fucking maniacs so detached from reality they might as well fight some racist windmills.
This is the single best post I've read in months. Not necessarily the politics, even, just well written.
>>341081791
>Not that you'd know
>>341093202
A shame, the less of those the better
>>341092050
It's not really like that for me. I just want more variety from AAA studios, because I resent largely having to choose between AAA action titles, and interesting, but low-budget indieshit. A lot of that effort to accurately represent gore and dismemberment feels misdirected to me.
>Blow
>the guy that made Braid
>Braid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSXofLK5hFQ
>>341093445
Maybe we should somehow restrict these things until the human mind is developed better in adulthood. I don't know, like with some kind of letter based rating system based on the content of the media. God, but where would we begin to implement such a system? If only it was already in place.
Reminder that if you aren't anti-/pol/ you are /pol/.
>>341093445
Again, see if you can get them to beat a person.
>>341076369
No, he does not. This is just the second step on the left's plan: first they filter our speech, then they filter our thoughts.
>Liberals are the new conservative bible-thumping soccer moms
This is why I'm a moderate independent.
>>341087143
How long until they start blaming gamergate?
>>341093445
It's "bobo doll". Maybe you should read up on the experiment again, seeing as you can't even remember its name.
>>341091430
Me and some mates are working on this as an explanation
Spoiler image because it's off-topic political stuff and I don't like posting that stuff outside of /pol/ because /v/ is for video games.
>>341093296
Make it happen.
>>341079993
Yeah, pretty much. After all, that's why they are radicals
lulz, isn't john blow that faggot who tried to charge $40 for what amounted to a book of line mazes for 5 year olds?
you could get the same "experience" as that piece of shit with the hubris to call itself a Myst-alike, off a Mickey D's placemat.
>>341076369
>Yfw liberal SJWs in 2016 are literally where bible thumping conservative nutjobs were in the 90s
>>341093831
reminder if you're not rational you're this guy
>>341093506
That's exactly what it is. They don't care if it changes something, aside from true zealots like McIntosh. All that matters is their social posturing.
Bloody violence is beautiful though. Destruction can be beautiful in it's own way and with video games you can witness fantasy destruction and know that when you are done playing it nobody suffered because of what you did because they are all just bits of data. What's so bad about that?
>>341092862
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobo_doll_experiment#Other_relevant_experiments
Read "Futher experiments" if you are interested. The idea that violent media influences you negatively is pretty much accepted in psychology. Somebody has yet to make a study where violent media has a positive influence on people. Why can't you accept this? It is not rocket science. Monkey see monkey do. That is how we survived for millenia. Imitation is how we learn almost anything in live.
>>341093831
/pol/ is the voice of reason in an insane world
>>341093418
There you go, see? Two ideas that can be but aren't necessarily related.
Just like "Fantasizing about killing people is gross" and "Video games cause violence".
>>341076369
>makes bold statement like a big brave boy
>gets some criticism
>goes into damage control mode and starts apologizing
Reminds me of Boogie2988. Can't stand these cunts.
>>341093202
What'd they try to do with metal?
>>341093067
The masses are the ones responsible for games like that being put into the spotlight and selling well and to add insult to injury he says Blow makes games nobody wants.
>>341093925
Mandela Effect. Bozo is an easier word to recall than "bobo"
>>341094002
it's great
best thing is that just like the soccer-moms did shit, they will as well.
>>341093831
Anti-SJW are worse than SJW
But anti-/pol/ is not worse than /pol/
Funny how that works
When Braid Guy fights Minecraft Guy, no one wins.
>I'm not saying anything about violence in video games!
>Spoiler: Yes I am.
>>341094130
>it's pretty much accepted
That must be why most psychological associations say such a link doesn't exist.
>>341079573
Horseshoe
>>341093715
That's funny because that's what Jack Thompson wanted. All he wanted to do was make sure kids couldn't get a hold of it.
>>341094043
In terms of technique, fictional violence can be beautiful. It takes skill and countless manhours from animators, special effects artists, and coders to create a good splatterfest. Just because it is grotesque doesn't exclude something from being art.
>>341094384
Neither of those are true, man.
So he's calling Americans gross? Thats pretty rude.
>>341076369
>Real gunman shoots unarmed people at public place who cant fight back
>Video Game Gunman shoots enemy combatants in a warzone who commonly shoot first.
Context is important.
>>341094025
the funny thing is that when the process fails and women call these guys retards they just respond by calling them traitors to their gender and anti-woman misogynists
>>341094183
but if you think about it, if fantasizing about killing people isn't gross, you're much more likely to commit violence. John Blow still made it appear that playing violent games should be shunned. he is one of those upper crust fuckalls.
>>341093831
I'm anti/pol/ not because I disagree with their viewpoints but because they're a bunch of shitposting retards.
>>341093715
Yeah great argument. Obviously it doesn't work. As I said I work in a elementary school and I know that parents don't care for that system.
>>341093841
You can't do these experiments for ethical reasons. But as I said, go to a school yard and watch how children act in a conflict. It has been getting worse for the past years, too.
>>341093925
It has been a long time since I read about it, my argument still stands though.
>>341076369
He retropedaled so hard he went back to the making of Braid.
>>341094398
You're retarded. He's saying that he's not talking about video games causing violence in real life, he's saying that fantasizing about violence in video games is fucked up.
How can so many illiterate people browse an image board like 4chan?
>>341085438
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV1fUwKMdAI
>>341093445
No, that is not at all the same. Role models are not people in magazines etc, it's parents and people you respect.
>>341076369
He's trying to make a point about violence, while defending that point with both "Oh it just an opinion" and "Well maybe that violence is bad for society (oh but I never said there was link)"
He's both spouting garbage and saying nothing at all.
>>341094384
t. sjw
>>341093941
Well the penis size seems right at least.
>>341094130
>The idea that violent media influences you negatively is pretty much accepted in psychology. Why can't you accept this? It is not rocket science.
Yeah, it's not science, it's social science. For whatever reason they like using Humanities techniques rather than scientific ones. I'll need to read the papers myself, but I wouldn't be surprised if every single one had some significant flaw nobody bothered correcting because it would interfere with reporting a desired result.
How about instead of "attacking" video games and other media they protest wars/governments/massacres?
Why not do what the Hippies did and use their freedom of speech and the right to gather to fight a suppose injustice?
Complaining about it on the Internet towords people who don't matter power wise is stupid and unproductive.
>Holier-than-thou indieshitter
Nothing to see here.
>>341094216
Some metal journalists on Metal Injection or Metal Sucks tried to push articles saying that metal was conservative, metalheads shouldn't use the word "fag" because it was offensive and immature, and trying to push subpar metal bands that had social commentary behind their lyrics.
It crashed pretty hard for them. Metalheads, like any good subculture (especially ones that value technique, DIY ,and individualism) is really good at identifying poseurs and calling them out.
>>341094216
pls respond
>>341085438
oh no
dr connors class
>>341094384
>Anti-SJW are worse than SJW
Well, one is actively ruining games and the other just posts angrily on /v/....so I don't really see how you came to that conclusion.
The contrarian faggots here are really getting out of hand. I get you want to be a special snowflake but dial it back a bit.
>>341094489
But they already can't. No child can walk into a store and pick up an M game without mommy or daddy buying it for them, at which point the blame is on the irresponsible parentage. But again, there's literally no way to stop this from happening. You could attempt to make video games non-transferable like they are some sort of weapon, but that's fucking silly and STILL wouldn't solve it.
>>341094409
Well I studied psychology for like one semester and this topic wasn't really presented as controversial. Most experiments we discussed only supported this link. As I said, find a study that links violent media to positive behavior.
It doesn't exist and as I said like 10 times now, children learn though imitation. That is human nature. If they consume a lot of media they will act differently. Thats why we have labels. To say dumb adults wouldn't be able to be influenced by media is wishful thinking.
>>341095009
Social Sciences need to purged. They can be a valuable field, but the house needs to be cleaned so we can have people in it who actually care about using the scientific method to understand how people and societies work.
>>341093506
Well isn't that what they've always been? These are the same guys who were happy to clean their desired girls house while she sucked of her boyfriend. Now they just self loath while women bang each other.
>>341095159
>MetalSucks
>the literal Kotaku/Polygon of meal
>>341079456
The Iliad is not about fantasizing about killing people. It does present the glory those men felt when they were fighting for their various causes in war but, at the same time it does depict the graphic violence and misery of said war.
>>341084747
We don't need gun control. Other countries with high firearm density do not have the level of gun deaths the US has. What we have is a drug related crime problem, which is a direct result of the war on drugs, a nigger/spic problem and a mental healthcare problem. Fix those and you fix the majority of gun crimes.
>>341094793
>he's saying that fantasizing about violence in video games is fucked up.
How are you able to get across absolutely nothing with so many words?
>>341085438
Notch has style
RockCock Disgraced
>>341095153
because they're not activists, they're bloggers following the "think globally, act locally" mantra. In other words, they don't give a fuck about effecting actual change so long as they can effectively brand themselves as an agent for change.
>>341089851
gun free zones
>>341095153
But complaining about real issues is hard! Is much easier to complain about virtual violence where no real person gets hurt! And I also need to maintain my retweet and followers counts in Twitah!
>>341086334
STOP POSTING HIM YOU RETARD
He was dead and irrelevant. Let him stay there in his pool of irrelevant filth.
>>341095542
The Illiad, while portraying horror, DEFINITELY sees war as glorious and being a wartime soldier as the highest profession.
>>341094967
?
I don't see anything about dick size listed there
>>341093296
Can you guess?
>>341095449
Did they find a link between violent media and violent behaviour, in a longitudinal-well controlled study? Or did they make wild generalizations off of individual results? Because driving is linked with aggression also, as does anything that requires concentration and focus.
>>341095159
>Metal Injection or Metal Sucks
so a bunch of faggots were being what they were, got it.
>>341095895
I think they mean the statue ;^)
>>341094793
Why is it fucked up? Violence has been a part of the human experience since the dawn of our species. It still is, even if white cucks like Blow can insulate themselves from it in padded safe rooms.
>>341095519
Originally the idea of representation and inclusivity was geared towards getting more people to play video games and remove the shame people felt from playing them. When they failed to attract women to the hobby they assumed it was because of all the evil sex and masculinity and not because they're a bunch of autistic failures.
>>341095938
Thompson never went to E3 all those years ago, so this feels easy.
>>341096052
Yeah, comment sections and other metal sites tore them apart. It died before it could even become a thing.
>>341095159
Both are just terrible terrible sites.
>>341094807
And the hero of your favorite game, TV show or even your best friend who is the leader in your social group. Children pick their own role models, and often times heros in any form of media act rather violently. Like super heros. You know how often children will pretend they are super heros and fight? It is all fun and games until they start choking each other. Of course you can discard my words as anecdotal evidence or call me a fag but I see this shit everyday and its baffling to me how some people just can't admit that violent media doesn't influence people. Maybe it doesn't influence you or me, but dumb people or children are different.
>>341076369
People were violent long before media came out. They were violent when writing came out. They were violent when radio, television and video games came out. They're never going to stop because people are violent.
you're the pussy weird one who needs to find a new hobby instead of trying to change an already existing one
>>341096334
>Of course you can discard my words as anecdotal evidence
Yes, we can, because it literally is anecdotal.
>>341076369
>Like is it so hard to at least allow a question about whether something is a good idea?
You're allowed to ask stupid questions, just dont come crying when people laugh at you for being a fucking retard.
>>341076369
Sounds about right if you're a full grown man, and not a kid who doesn't know better.
If you're an adult and you fantasize about video-game violence you're either an intellectually underdeveloped bro-douche or psychopathic.
Past your mid-late teens if you've had a healthy upbringing and educations video games should be a potent source of unexplored narratives about life-experience and meaning (games like Passage, To The Moon, and Douketsu Montesori, aka Cave Story, come to mind).
So yeah, he's got a point, but he's a long way from the full picture.
>>341096334
And when the children start choking each other that's when you teach them that it's wrong, if you haven't already.
>>341096334
so why should we bend over backwards for the sake of some idiots and their kids?
>>341095009
Of course they all have problems. But you can always take away something from them. And the experiment with the bobo doll was really simple and definitely proved that children imitate certain behaviors. How far this effect carries over is not really clear. But making blanket statements about a whole field of science and giving up on understanding human psychology is just dumb.
>>341096557
>Deep stories cant have violence in them.
>Challenging the audience with rougher themes is childish.
You dont really know much about the art of storywriting and it shows.
>>341079904
What if your favourite novel genuinely is is Don Quixote? Why would that be pretentious?
>>341093831
Here's your (((you))), you earned it.
One more post and you'll get a gold star.
>>341096557
>Passage, To The Moon, and Douketsu Montesori, aka Cave Story
>>341093941
That's a terrible chart and I hope I never see it again.
>>341089590
Isn't all form of expression a fight and all beliefs casus belli?
>>341096334
We already rate our media. We already restrict our media. And even after loads of very violent media has piled on year after year, violent crime rates just keep dropping. It's not a very strong link at all.
>>341095651
The thing is it would be easier for them to become activists. If there goal is to become well known and champion of progress(by their definition of progress) than why not become a figure head or leader of a movement. It would add credit to their claims if they got a group together and showed how many people cared.also it would great to see some Vietnam level crackdowns
>>341095960
Probably not in the scale you want. I know that it is hard to find direct links in psychology. But if you are interested just read the wikipedia page. There are some additional experiments that you might find interesting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobo_doll_experiment#Other_relevant_experiments
>that is kind of gross
So is sodomy, but we are told every day that fags need respect regardless, so why can't fags like the one in OP's image leave games alone?
>>341085416
Why is he mad at guns.
He should be mad at gun politics
No, some people like violence, it's instinctual. I can't understand why you would shit talk someone for satiating their violent urges with digital content, would you rather them actually be violent to real people?
>>341096773
>How far this effect carries over is not really clear.
But you will happily exploit that lack of clarity for political reasons.
>But making blanket statements about a whole field of science and giving up on understanding human psychology is just dumb
There are plenty of people doing legitimate work and actual science within the field of psychology. None of them are the pseudo-sociologists who think a p-value measures how patriarchal something is.
>>341096872
Nice goal-post shifting. No-one said stories can't have violence in them, certain forms of violence are actually very worthwhile material for storytelling (particularly sexual violence like rape, or racial violence like racism), but violence in and of itself has no intellectual merit.
>>341095889
Because in those times being a war hero was one of the greatest things men could strive for. They idolized all their heroes like Achilles or Hector. This is not just true for ancient Greece, true for cultures from around the war.
Still wouldnt say The Iliad is about massacre fantasies.
>>341096557
>if you enjoy something you are primally wired to enjoy, you are childish
In other news, everyone who engages in sex is a slave to their libido and people who eat tasty food are disgusting hedonists.
Hasn't violence been glorified since forever? Having stories about heroes killing shit is probably as old as humanity
>>341096885
It's the type of thing freshman college students say to seem cooler even if theyve never read it
>>341097023
war is the father of all things
t. heraclitus
>>341093941
>Things opposed:
>-nudity censorship
>-porn
>>341097506
Very few games are straight up massacre fantasies, if you are going by the strict definition. Most are heroism fantasies that just involve loads of killing
>>341076369
muslims dont get this shit from video games
its from fucking islam
this sort of scapegoating will lead to downfall of western civilisation
>>341096885
He said his favorite novel was a different one than his actual favorite to appear sophisticated. That is pretension. If his favorite novel actually was Don Quixote, there would be no pretense.
>>341076369
Maybe it's because of the shooting lately but more and more I just want more boobies in games and less of all the shooty stabby.
>>341093445
That's what rating systems are for.
>>341080907
That's because you're a reasonable person who just enjoys to unwind. Not an attention seeking tit wank
What makes these degenerate rejects think that removing violence from games will stop Muslims on a religious Jihad?
Genuinely very curious to know.
>>341076369
>radical muslims call for real life murder of homosexuals
>muslim scripture calls for faggots to be killed
>millions of fps/tps players, only few incidents of actual killing
>assailant not even known to play video games
>not a single video game out there that places you in the scenario of killing the gays
he's probably not retarded, but a liberal faggot who want to place blame on "things I dont like" rather than "things I like"
>>341096532
Yeah but any teacher I talked to had the same experience. Children who watch to much Tv on the weekends are easily spotable.
>>341096716
>>341096653
Yeah it is kinda hard if their whole environment is full of aggression. Some things can't be "taught" by a single person. If a child experiences the majority of people solving conflicts through violence, especially the parents, it is gonna imitate that behavior and take it for granted. That is why I dislike violent media, it is an additional influence that troubled kids don't need. And guess which parents let their kids watch to much Tv.
>>341096716
Yeah no, fuck being social, everyone for themselves has always worked the best
>>341097032
Yeah but parents don't care for ratings. I had kids who watched fucking Saw. Violence is so ingrained in our culture that I have to explain to you that maybe, just maybe, seeing a lot of violence desensitizes you towards it.
If you show me pcitures of saggy old tits each day my reaction will be less extreme each day. It is not hard to understand, but hard to accept apparently.
>>341098294
Do you think those Muslims in Syria would still kill people if they weren't spending most of their times playing video games?
>>341097219
Interesting, in that they're awful. For example, the one with the theatre. Any statistics course will explain how worthless a voluntary-response survey is, so even from that we can already dismiss the results as unreliable.
>>341097580
Violence has been around since man started eating. Cave paintings showing humans hunting, and humans fighting.
We no longer need to commit violence to survive anymore, we commit it because it's one of the oldest forms of expression
>>341093941
>opposing porn
Kill yourself.
Another E3 tradition: washed up developers giving inane quotes about "this thing i dont like".
>>341098335
>not a single video game out there that places you in the scenario of killing the gays
Ballad of Gay Tony
>>341098505
Well even with all this rampant desensitization towards fantasy violence, violence is still on the decline. So at worst it doesn't matter.
>>341098609
Violence is better than sex desu
>>341096557
I'm going to call Poe's law on that.
>>341084747
its not fucking video games. its people who fucking grow up not knowing its wrong to kill people. ive played shooting games and know its horrible to kill another human. its mental fucking health
>>341097412
I have not said anything about politics or patriarchy yet. But let me exploit your dumb argument for my sake: You have a picture of me in your head right now. You have consumed so much media that you link certain words and stances to my argument, even though I haven't talked about them.
See? You do learn a lot from consuming media. I am not for censorship, but I do think schools should talk to parents about consuming media. Otherwise the kids will just think in black and white and think some people ar SJW just because they don't like kids playing COD.
>>341098620
Enjoy your premature ED, you porn addict
>>341098505
>Yeah but any teacher I talked to had the same experience.
Oh wow, you talked to a bunch of people? Well that is convincing evidence. Do kids who act the way you're identifying act that way because they watch too much TV, or do they watch too much TV because they have those personality traits, or is there something else influencing both (for example, absentee parents), or are you just subjectively viewing an effect that does not actually exist?
>>341098601
Yeah some of them are pretty useless. They are all pretty old too, so many things we look out for nowadays aren't accounted for. But many have been reproduced with fixed conditions, especially the original experiment.
>>341091430
A small minority of Republicans who aren't Young Earth Creationists.
>>341099194
If you define "consuming media" as "having to deal with humanities and social sciences people" then yes, consuming media has definitely affected me in that I do not have patience for politicized bullshit.
>>341098574
>Ship xboxs and playstations and PCs over the middle east
>have planes fly by and para-drop them over cities and villages
>War and crime drop dramatically because everyone is busy playing WoW or counter strike
>Left is confused
>>341095440
Can confirm. When I was a manager at gamestop I can't tell you how many times a parent would get mad because they bought their brat a gta game or cod and bring it back complaining how it wasn't suitable for their kids after being told by the cashier it isn't or told by me personally. Parents suck these days
>>341099198
>thinking you should make that decision for people
>If you disagree with me you MUST be pathetic and addicted
Ok faggot.
>>341086348
i just dont get it. its like blaming the knife after a serial killer just stabbed a bunch of people
>>341098609
Violence is sport. The Greeks did wrestling, the Romans did blood sports, executions use to be a public event, we can even watch grown men and women fighting on TV in wrestling/boxing matches.
It's cathartic to break something, the rush of fighting/surviving is addictive (because we all want to live).
Humans will create and destroy.
>>341091246
ow the edge
>>341085196
The guy killed the gays because of his religion yet they still make it about video games.
>>341098823
Depends if you get more excitement out of removing something from the world or adding more of yourself to the world.
>>341099194
alright, but what does that concern over kids playing COD have to do with us?
I wouldn't want my son or daughter playing with matches, but that doesn't mean I'm going to campaign to ban fire.
>>341097758
The image is pretty weird at points (support for British Commonwealth, what?) those two things are easily different from the European view.
The American panicking over a nipslip or a nude kid on TV would be funny if it wasn't so weird and suspiciously prude, whereas porn is considered even by regular people to be "degenerate".
>>341099285
Well I will not be able to convince you, but I am pretty sure of my experiences. I keep an open mind, and in my 2 years of work I have seen enough to know that media changes children. Of course the parents who let their kids consume so much are often the root of the problem, but it also happens in good households.
If you truly want to know if I am right or wrong, just take an internship at your local school. It is better than any experiment or argument, just see for yourself and you will get why I have been defending my point for like half an hour now.
>>341099748
That's cultural imperialism you shitlord.
>sees dudebro going through the motions playing the latest CoD Titanfall GTA
Gross. Something is wrong with gamers
>sees pansexual talking about the sex-positive benefits of choking during sex or enacting rape fantasies with their partners
ha ha now this shit i CAN get behind
>>341089139
Could buy that or SUPERHOT.
Yeah, I know what I'd rather get.
>>341092270
>fetishizing
Seems like it was more of a regret story by the end of it
>>341076369
No. Its natural for human beings.
>>341099828
The shooter wasn't white so they can't go off him without looking like Islamaphobe or defend him because it would look like you hate gays. If he was white, they would be going to town on the guy talking about how dangerous white people are and how mentally deranged they are.
>>341097758
Nudity is tasteful and natural
(Professional) Porn is generally scummy, artificial and trashy and also a terrible industry.
>>341097819
This. His argument falls apart because ISIS hates video games as being western/christian media imports.
all i did was say he should spend more time making games and less time being an ideologue on twitter if he wants to sell more games
hes a bit of a salty bitch aint he
>>341099539
>But many have been reproduced with fixed conditions, especially the original experiment.
And I wonder how well controlled they actually were. One of the favorite recent studies people love trotting out implied that looking at sexualized female video games characters was linked with certain harmful attitudes in a post-viewing survey. But it used neutral sitting poses for the 'positive' photos and 3D models in dynamic action poses for the 'negative' sexualized images. Right there, you are introducing more variables that anyone paying attention could have easily corrected for, but nobody did, because that would interfere with the desired political result.
>>341080469
Creepy is the SJW word
>>341100178
Nothing, I have never said anything about bans. I have only tried to prove to you that media does influence people, and as children are the best example I talked about them. How we solve this problem has not been part of my argument.
>>341100528
Misery tourism is a thing anon.
>>341100624
Nope it's official that Muslim feelings are actually higher priority than LGBT rights. Look at how they kill gays in Eurostan. They get away with it as an oppressed group even though they are a majority
>>341081791
More like Jonathan BTFO
>>341095449
>Well I studied psychology for one semester and...
How did you type this and think it was alright?
>>341100276
>If you truly want to know if I am right or wrong, just take an internship at your local school.
Oh, so I can get anecdotal evidence for myself? That sounds like a great use of time. Maybe next I can go get bitten by a corn snake and get anecdotal evidence that snakes aren't venomous, declare what my post number will be and get anecdotal evidence that I'm psychic, or go to a spooky house at night and get anecdotal evidence that ghosts are real.
Open minds don't matter. Reliable data matters.
>Guy literally wastes 50 fags in the name of religion
>Video games take the blame because its politically incorrect to make criticism of this particular religion and ONLY that religion that just happens to be fuel this world wide blood bath
What the fuck is wrong with western civilization?
>>341100992
Again why blame media when parents should be there? Where is the parent? We literally have safe guards and kids controls for this sort of thing. Why is media to blame?
>>341100936
Of course. Nowadays it is really bad because of the abundance of researchers and big companies. But you always have to ask yourself about the general consensus. And generally "bad" media is not linked with "good" behavior. If at all it is linked with "bad" behavior. Which is common sense for me, if you experience a certain feeling for a prolonged time it will influence you in some way. And media can make you feel a certain way rather easily.
He's right that AAA games are all unoriginal
>>341100992
I'm also not the guy you've been talking to all this time. Arguing over the idea that vidya can influence people assumes that influence is negative or that people are incapable of separating fantasy violence from reality.
>>341096557
if you hate violent video games and enjoy psuedointellectual indieshit you're not a man, you're a woman.
What game(s) is he talking about?
>>341098505
>Yeah but any teacher I talked to had the same experience.
I'm a teacher.
The kids in my classes love Minecraft and GTA5, among other games.
They don't put themselves in the shoes of the characters at all though, in truth they aren't really empathic enough to care in that way or ever think, "I want to be like that psycho murderer". They can at most put themselves in the shoes of a classmate who goes through the same things as they do in a day, but they cannot relate to fictional characters in games. In fact, they are very quick to point out when something is impossible, like shooting demons. They'll do it, but with a certain ironic distance.
The only thing that really motivates them to play is the cool explosions and effects, as well as doing something online with friends and the idea of progressing and being rewarded. They don't idolize murderers and they don't celebrate the violence. I don't think the content of violent games (or violent television) really influences kids any more than many other factors allow it to be, and in this case the parents being a positive influence is absolutely crucial. A kid raised by games or TV will undoubtedly have severe problems, but that is not the fault of games or TV in any way, it's the fault of absent parenting.
>>341100685
Didn't they upload a sick GTA5 frag video?
>>341080102
I cant believe Destin fro Screwattack, in the replies, uses the recent shooting as an excuse for this shit.
>>341084747
>I'm not saying that video games caused this
This pisses me off. He's obviously suggesting that video games contribute to gun violence but is too cowardly to be upfront about it.
>>341086335
>yfw you didn't buy The Witness
>>341101779
>But you always have to ask yourself about the general consensus.
No I don't, not when the consensus is composed of people who are either ignorant or actively biased. Again, there are people doing legitimate scientific work in psychology, but for whatever reason they are not doing anything in these studies.
>>341099826
It's an addictive product that causes harm to the user and many of the young "stars". Why should it be allowed?
>>341079573
People believe fascism is okay as long as its in the name of secular ideals rather than bible thumping (Most psychotic right wing ideals were biblical).
Also Bush administration made people real resentful towards the right wing.
>>341100928
Well yeah. Are you really expecting insightful dialogue from some fag who charges $40 for a puzzle game?
>>341091506
Is it? And you would know wouldn't you.
>>341091525
I think (s)he's talking about Europe, not 'Murica.
>>341101704
>What the fuck is wrong with western civilization?
The Left aren't really part of Western Civilization.
>>341091430
In my case I'm an atheist right winger who got fed up with christian cosplayers and honest to god retards.
The guy who invented facism was a bloody militant atheist and yet evangelist retards like to pretend they a monopoly on the right.
>>341096557
>Past your mid-late teens if you've had a healthy upbringing and educations video games should be a potent source of unexplored narratives about life-experience and meaning (games like Passage, To The Moon, and Douketsu Montesori, aka Cave Story, come to mind).
Which totally explains why the most popular, sociable, normie guys with great childhoods and normal adolescences play mainstream violent games without issue, and reclusive nu-males who were bullied in school only play obscure pacifist indie titles....
>>341102831
>only exist in western civilization
>emerged due to events in western civilization
>made up out of westerners
>not part of western civilization
What are they? Andromedans?
"He's obviously deeply effected by the recent shooting"
Fuck off.
Fuck right off. You dont get to use the deaths of others to back your shitty opinions when you didnt know any of them.
Shameless
>50 people die
>LMAO BETTER BLAME VIDYA
I can't wait for everyone to stop being a gun control slacktivist in 2 weeks again.
>>341103037
>most popular, sociable, normie guys with great childhoods and normal adolescences play mainstream violent games
Uhm, no, they don't play video game at all. Dumbass bro-douches play violent video games.
>>341102130
That's retarded and unfair to girls, normal gamer girls don't exclusively play indie shovelware either, they play the same games regular gamer guys do like Left 4 Dead, Final Fantasy and Overwatch
>>341102131
The closet games that could come close to giving glory to mass shootings would be:
>Hatred
>Modern Warfare 2
That's really I all of them that I could think of off the top of my head. The problem with the examples I give is that they are old-ish games
>shooting in the US
<time 2 ban guns
>shooting in france with automatic rifles and grenades
<uhh
>>341103791
You're right, I was unfair against women. They're just plain subhuman.
>>341096557
What about tetrid or video poker on a tiger handheld? What unexplored narratives do those explore you fucking pretentious faggot?
>>341097414
Nothing by itself has, it is the task of the storyteller to bring that merit to it. Themes and subjects themselves dont define whether a story is good or not, but rather how its written.
A story with no violence in it isnt automatically better than a story with violence in it. Using controversial and challenging themes makes handling the story much harder but doesnt mean it cant be just as good as a story with safer themes. Even a story about violence for violence's sake can be done well with a skillful storywriter or storyteller.
>>341103203
>only exist in western civilization
>made up out of westerners
A lot of Leftists aren't westerners but foreigners who moved there.
>not part of western civilization
>What are they? Andromedans?
Parasites. They're no more part of western civilization, a notion they're actively antithetical to, than a bloated tick is part of the host body it survives on.
>>341103742
Give it till the click baits need more trump coverage
>>341086808
God that would be great. Someone should make a game with that premise.
>>341103761
>normals don't plays mainstream games.
Yes they do you fucking retard
I'm honestly surprised no one has started a hashtag over these vulture shits trying to slander others over their and Islam's failings.
#SocialVultures maybe?
>>341103961
>hatred
yeah, but if you played the game you could see it had a macabre tounge-in-cheek style to it, does being self aware about shooting really give glory to the shooters?
>modern warfare 2
I assume your talking about the airport level which was actually optional for completing the game and you were told beforehand that it was graphic, does that still count as glorifying shooters?
>>341104270
it's part of the glory of western civilization that it can stand as the only living civilization on the planet, completely lacking in equals, despite being filled with never-before seen levels of destructive retards
it's like a guy doing marathon world records despite carrying his crippled son on his back
>>341088602
The bodies aren't even in the ground yet.
>>341077442
>a game where you play as a lawyer
>a game where you play as a team of government cheerleaders helping people through their problems via song and dance
>a game where you're a surgeon, basically the opposite of going around killing people
>lots of games where you *can* kill people, but the game calls you a pussy if you do (one of which is a major release later this year)
>>341106091
>surgeon
Did it look any good? I love surgeon puzzle games those shits are fun.
>>341083169
he has been like this ever since he sold Minecraft and started to deal with his depressions of being alone.
>>341080513
In the end I don't think it matters, sex and violence sell games and there's nothing they can do about it.
>>341105814
I've honestly never seen a game glorify. I mean actually glorify gun culture or gun violence. In a lot of games it's grim settings and shows the brutality of war.
>inb4 muh point system. That's not glorifying though
>>341086808
And that's why Paintball and Airsoft exists, to shoot people without killing involved. I haven't heard anyone demonising them, yet they are the most real ways to shoot at people and to glorify violence.
>>341106654
misquote?
>>341096557
>if you've had a healthy upbringing and educations video games should be a potent source of unexplored narratives about life-experience and meaning
You want meaning, dude? I'll give you a fuckin' meaning. Gears of War has meaning for you. What meaning is that? That killing aliens is your only option if they are out to kill you first.
What? You don't think that's meaningful ? What are you, a communist? Alien sympathizer?
You think Wolfenstein 3D has no meaning? You think that killing a castle's worth full of evil Nazis is not a worthwhile cause? Have you not heard of something called "THE HOLOCAUST"? Have you never considered that perhaps we could have saved all those billions of poor Jews if the French, instead of watching their artfagotry existentialist artfilms with their emo ghey angsty messages, had been playing Wolfenstein 3D instead?
And what about Space Invaders? What about it's narrative, "Protect the Earth even if the future of the Earth is uncertain"? And who is to say that one narrative is less important than another? For fuck's sakes dude, what could possibly be more important than the survival of the human race?
And don't tell me that all those narratives found in action games are very similar. What, do you think all those tens of thousands of emo artsy movies have different meanings? I've got news for you sonny, at the end of the day there's only like a dozen fuckin' meanings, and all that happens is they just get repeated ad nauseam with different graphics. The only reason some messages are heard more than others is because they ARE MORE IMPORTANT for fuck's sakes, and they have to be drilled into your brain from a young age, otherwise when the aliens attack you'll be all like, "Please, I don't wanna die! I surrender, but please don't take my Gardenia augusta flower arrangements and Barbra Streisand CD collection!"
![new-oxford-iliad[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/RJVtzEz.jpg "new-oxford-iliad[1]")
![1465745600500[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/39nQ39x.png "1465745600500[1]")
