MMO THREAD
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You are currently reading a thread in /v/ - Video Games
Let's have a general MMO discussion.
What ruined MMOs?
How do we fix them?
What would your ideal MMO be like?
What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
etc etc
>>340871891
>What ruined MMOs?
communities, PBEs and sites like MMo champion
>How do we fix them?
we dont
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
RoR and despite being buggy as fuck its nice to play, but Im sure thats just because I like Warhammer.
>>340871891
They're all the same
FFXIV elite fags hate you if you've never done a single dungeon before, implying they knew how to do it before it was released
FFXI is still the best
fuck you
>What ruined MMOS
The players, MMO players are by and large casuals endlessly asking for hardcore MMOs and then balking whenever any game with low drop rates or open world farming comes out.
>How do we fix them
You can't, the normal people that MMOs depended on for the social aspect left for social media and MOBAs to get their attention fix, leaving MMOs to be inhabited solely by the min-maxers that couldn't give a damn about socialization or anything else that distinguishes an MMO from other genres, resulting in the solo quest grind to max level gameplay in most MMOs.
>Ideal MMO
I always liked Mabinogi so a re imagining by a different company would be great.
>MMO playing right now
Tree of savior because I have no standards and I enjoy it.
>>340871891
FFXIV is pretty good senpai
>>340872407
Don't play on that shitty ERP server everyone on /vg/ plays on and you won't have that problem.
>What ruined MMOs?
Pandering to the lowest common denominator to the point where every single MMO is uninteresting and unfun to anybody with a triple digit IQ.
>How do we fix them?
Smaller projects lead by people taking the genre back to its roots. Camelot Unchained, Pantheon, Project Gorgon. Support projects like these, ignore AAA status quo trash.
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
Sandbox-ish, open world, PvP focused, pseudo-infinite class/spec/gear/comp variety to keep players occupied forever with theorycrafting and horizontal progression.
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
The above mentioned small projects. Currently fucking around on the f2p Project Gorgon alpha, it's pretty good.
>>340872628
I wish this argument would work in real life.
Are there any old MMOs with official servers still open that haven't casualized?
How about fun niche MMOs?
why do people refer to MMO games like it's its' own genre? /v/ talks about MMs like it refers exclusively to themepark MMO's and generic WoW clones. What about all the games that didn't fall into this ccategory? What about EVE, SWG, and others that weren't like this?
>We can't fix them
Creativity alone can achieve attraction of the MMO communities that have migrated to other games.
Most designer teams have weird setups. Blizzard won with WoW cuz they went to uni together and could collaborate well enough to look past job titles.
>>340871891
>what ruined MMOs
WoW ruined MMOs and every MMO now wants to be like WoW but with more pay to win bullshit
>how do we fix them
get devs that have to money to make a good MMO make something original and goodyeah right.
>what MMO are your currently playing/waiting for
phantasy star online 2
How's Icarus? Some friends are playing the beta and they say it's good, but I don't believe them.
After Tera and BnS, I have no more faith in Korean MMOs.
Playing Dofus. 6 years, 4 months, 5 days of accumulated subscription time.
>What ruined MMOs?
Jews. And where the money goes - its easier to make/run ASSFAGGOTS since they cost less to develop, maintain, and """kidz""" love them. By kidz I mean the new generation, people below early 20's-ish (gen Y?)
>How do we fix them?
we need to see a rise in the indie MMO market if anything can help pull it out of the grave/rut. Buying the shit MMOs like gloryia victus and Albion lets indie devs know theres a market for their crappy idea, and one in one hundred will end up being good
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
PVP focused. Shards live and die, and have different themes / rules accordingly. Like a server stays up for a month or two and all it is is just a big, long war. Maybe it can end early if one side is too good. Skill XP gains depends on the server rules and how many people play, so if there is a deficit in a certain skill for one faction, new players or skill-based characters would gain much more XP in that deficit skill.
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
None. Last one I played was OSRS for a month before boring out of it.
>>340873089
MMOs are their own type of video game. Unlike other genres, MMOs need to surrogate a large populated world than an individual can immerse themself in for months or years.
>>340871891
>What ruined MMOs?
Casuals who only play 2 hour each week and want the same gear as NEETs.
>How do we fix them?
Is dead, Jim.
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
Pre-renewal RO with balanced acid demonstration.
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
None. The dream is over.
>>340871891
>What ruined MMOs?
When they went all care bear. Anyone else remember when UO was new, what a fucking asshole you could be? Restricting PvP, stealing, corpse looting, etc ruined MMO's.
>>340871891
>What ruined MMOs?
Modern MMOs are designed to please a new audience. Old MMOs are good because you shared the same taste of the old audience.
The modern audience demands certain features that had nothing to do with old MMOs, like streamlined solo leveling all the way to the level cap, instanced content with party queue for easy-to-set-up runs, lots of button pressing with little to no communication required (everybody should read a guide and act exactly like they are supposed to based on their own roles, like NPCs), etc.
>How do we fix them?
No pointing in trying to bring back a dead community, so devs should improve their game based on what they already have.
Remove the "Massively" part and accept that online open world is an expensive gimmick nobody gives a shit anymore, and invest dev time in better gameplay mechanics, itemization (far more important than combat in my opinion, it can make even the shittiest grindfest enjoyable), dungeon design, etc. With things like party finder and instanced dungeons with huge EXP bonuses, the world will always feel empty and pointless.
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
A game based on the ideas of Reccetear's world: Two types of roles, adventurer and happy merchants. Merchants pays adventurers to explore dungeons with them and buy their loot, and adventurers buy crafted gear from happy merchants. All the fancy stuff included (lots of subclass mixing, DFO's "dps/buffer, dps/debuffer, dps/holder" instead of holy trinity, housing, crafting system similar to FFXIV but not so pants-on-head retarded, hats, etc).
It would never work but that is usually how "ideal" things are.
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
Dungeon Fighter Online.
Maybe I will do my semiannual visit on FFXIV this month (I'm not hardcore enough to be able to shit on welfare updates and raid on day 1, and not horny enough to pay a monthly fee just to ERP all day long, but I enjoy the story, the soundtrack and the boss fights).
>>340874192
Yes but saying MMOs are a genre is like saying single player games are a genre.
>>340873202
You probably have the type of friends that don't actually judge things they call it "good" because it functionally works
>>340873202
Combat is slowish but pretty, quests are a literal mess, like they make you walk back and forth so much it's not even funny.
Ocne you start flying it's kinda okish, but still repetitive, I quit before hitting end game, but I imagine it's still shit.
>What ruined MMOs
Companies trying to copy WoW's success instead of trying to be original. Look how fiercely loyal EVE online players are
>How do we fix them?
Get away from the WoW model
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
Open world, multitude of races/classes with race specific classes, and an RvR/PvP system similar to WAR's where battles mean something (IE A keep defense/occupation)
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
Currently playing non but I return to TOR every so often. Haven't touched FF14 or Rift in ages. I am cautiously optimistic for Camelot Unchained. It will be interesting to see if Jacobs truly does have that MMO magic, when not being oppressed by EA, or if DAoC was a one off success.
>>340874827
MMO typically means MMORPG, and MMORPG is its own genre m8.
>>340872632
>Project Gorgon alpha
I just downloaded this and tried it out. It's pretty interesting, giving me a lot of Runescape vibes. It's a shame the controls are so clunky though.
After ToS being a failure my life feels so empty
I don't feel interested in any game anymore, I'm even considering playing shit like Ryzom, help me bros I need a fun mmo but I think I've played them all and they're all shit.
>>340875861
I described it in a previous thread as a cross between GW1 and an Elder Scrolls game. It's got a lot of great concepts, but shit like targeting enemies, moving your character and combat is just so unresponsive and frustrating. It's early alpha though so hopefully that stuff gets ironed out.
![1499[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/4htb2gL.gif "1499[1].gif")
Are there any actually good, fully open sandbox style MMOs?
I tried out Mortal Online a while back, and though it was fun for a while, especially since it felt like a true sandbox, it was far too unfinished to have a lasting entertainment factor, plus a bunch of annoying bugs.
You guys know any games like that?
>>340875989
What kind of gameplay you like? What exactly you are looking for in MMOs?
You can read the thread and see what other anons are playing.
>MMOs want to be liek wow
>None can copy smooth flow of combat from it
I do not understand
>>340876428
Tibia is answer to every sandbox mmo question
>>340876658
Tibia is a little too basic for my taste, mechanics wise.
Plus the artstlye looks like shit.
>>340876565
WoW combat is smooth because the animations are jerky and non consistent, it may play good but it doesn't look good.
>>340871891
>What ruined MMOs?
Focus on linear treadmill power-progression gameplay which wastes the time of both players and developers with content that will be replaced, as well as reduction of community aspects due to dungeon-finder features, cross-server features and generally an increase in solo/easy content.
>How do we fix them?
Return to sandbox-style open-world gameplay where the primary objective is not personal character progression but rather competing with other players for territory/resources/items. Make grouping with other players mandatory for most forms of content and limit "auto party maker" tools.
>What would your ideal MMO be like
- Large world where most territory is up for player control and development.
- Players make their own goals, but metagame is competing with other players for territory control
- Action combat. Special abilities still exist but basic damage is done with proper combos, hitboxes, etc. instead of having a "rotation". Multiple different playstyles like Monster Hunter.
- Power progression is heavily stunted or removed entirely. Progression instead comes in the form of unlocking more abilities/builds which allows you to try more things.
- Large amount of build customisation. Characters can make builds which cover a wide variety of roles. Roles are not rigid or strictly enforced.
- All items except very basic early-game stuff must be made by players by collecting materials and producing it with crafting classes and facilities.
- Items and buildings/facilities can be lost or destroyed through combat.
>>340872608
>I always like Mabinogi
For what reason, Mabinogi is the only MMO that I can get into for any period of time. I just wish it didn't run like shit and didn't look like shit.
>>340871891
aion used to be the shit
>>340877034
Artstyle takes time to get used to but the sprites really look nice after you give them a try
But yeah mehanics are very simple and haven't really changed in last 15 years except for elemental resistance change in 8.0
Currently playing FFXIV because it doesn't run like shit and it actually gets content at a consistent schedule. For some reason MMOs run like shit most of the time and they take 8-12 months to release new battle content.
Anyone play Perfect World? Its not bad but god damn its hard to level up. You cant do certain quests without getting help from players pr going to dungeons which sucks because I just do quests. Screw pvp.
Also the music is incredible.
![1082[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/DxYxSUO.gif "1082[1].gif")
>>340876336
>>340875861
>>340872632
>Project Gorgon
I'm checking out their site now. The amount of skills and shit sound almost too good to be true.
What's the actual gameplay like? Sounds kind of interesting.
>>340877906
Yeah FF14 is one of the most recent MMOs I can recall that has a stable client. Wildstar, Black Desert, and BnS all ran like shit even on good PCs ranging from FPS lag spikes to texture popping.
>>340878004
I've installed it like 12 different times during various patches and different versions, betas etc.
I hate how the game forces you to do stupid dailies to progress at some point, and no one ever does the fucking dailies anymore, or they just want one of the bosses and leave the dungeon after killing it, and you're stuck in there because you didn't get to kill what you wanted and now have to go back to town to get people again.
Furthest I got was like 80 I think, I remember building an ultra OP fairy that 1 shotted any non tank flying in the air, a friend quit the game and deleted me from MSN and never heard about him again because he got so mad about getting insta raped by a fucking fairy, I still miss him.
>>340872632
>Sandbox-ish, open world, PvP focused, pseudo-infinite class/spec/gear/comp variety to keep players occupied forever with theorycrafting and horizontal progression
Chronicles of Elyria sounds like it might just be the kind of game you'd be interested in. http://chroniclesofelyria.com/
>>340878358
>What's the actual gameplay like? Sounds kind of interesting.
Standard tab targeting like WoW, but a fuckton less smooth and enjoyable. One thing about the game that interests me a lot is that each NPC has a favor system where you do favors (mini quests) for them, give them gifts, make small talk, etc. in order to get additional dialogue options and better prices and shit. Gear isn't just boring stats either, there are a lot of interesting bonuses that you find.
Here's to hoping the glaring flaws get polished up.
>>340877906
this
is it so hard to ask for a MMO that looks good, doesn't run like unoptimized shit, and release actual content instead of cash shop shit regularly.
>>340877269
Have you seen the new animations, per chance? It's only with melee classes so far but I quite like it.
has anyon here tried Landmark?
Seems interesting, I don't think there's any builder game like it, and it's only 9.99, but the steam page doesn't even have a video, and the reviews seem kind angry.
>Project Gorgon
Isn't that shit you could hear about like in 2008?
>>340878486
Ive been lv 63 for 2 months. Thats how bad it is. No one wants to help kill bosses.
>>340878694
>Oh you like these principles and philosophies? X game is totally what you're describing XDXDXD
That's an interesting assumption, anon. seeing as their implementation of mentioned fundamental systems is absolutely fucking garbage.
There's literally no hope left for this genre.
>>340879124
hows the pvp
>>340879353
Don't it's shit
>>340879353
You're retarded, literally every review tells you why it's a scam and you shouldn't buy it
>>340879702
they're all just made because they bought early access for like $50-100 and EQ next got cancelled, and yet they have like 400+ hours on it, if it was that bad they wouldn't play it so much
I just want someone to make a dnd mmo.
You would think its the easiest shit to adapt. Minimal focus on gear, and more focus on leveling and character progression through talents. Have enough open world shit to encourage RP.
I played ddo for a bit, but it was already super dead by the time I got to it.
Honestly if someone just made a pure clone of gw2 with actual bosses that aren't health sponges, writers who actually give a shit, and pvp that wasn't imbalanced as fuck, that'd be perfect.
>>340879634
Haven't played long enough to experience any. Not even sure there is PvP yet. If there is, it'll be utter shit just based on how the combat functions currently.
How much do you guys value story/lore in MMOs?
WoW will always have the upper hand here considering the Warcraft legacy it was built on so it's pretty difficult for new MMOs to compete.
>>340871891
>what ruined mmos?
WoW
>>340879290
the animations look better, but they are still jerky because of the way combat works in the game. the GCD finishes before the animation finishes and there are no animation locks so you start clipping ability animations into each other which plays good but looks bad.
>>340880127
None at all, I just like killing stuff and going places, the "lore" can be anything at all, as long as the setting is nice
>What ruined MMOs?
Datamining/wikis, powergamers and normos who want instant gratification, and streamlined rollercoaster approach to design that caters to these categories. MMOs are now all about getting to max level as fast as possible, following net builds and grinding raids or doing muh epic PvP plays. They could as well be ASCII spreadsheets at this point. The sense of adventure, exploration, the social aspect are all gone from MMOs now. Any content is datamined faster than devs can put it out and turned into easily digested numbers for people to add to their statblocks and continue on their pointless daily grind.
>How do we fix them?
We don't. There's simply no cure for the state of the gaming community. If you want ye olde MMO feel, look into and support small indie projects as well as private retro servers.
>Ideal MMO
Hard to say. Huge world. Exploration. Diverse playstyles. Design that discourages the Farmville mindset. Dynamic content. Encourages players to interact with each other beyond clicking a LFG button.
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
None. Used to play a shit ton of them though. EQ II is my all-time favorite.
>>340880127
WoW's story is shit because it literally shits all over Warcraft RTS lore to appeal to normalfags.
>>340871891
Best current MMO is FFXIV hands down
Themepark MMOS > Sandbox MMOs
deal with it you niche losers.
>>340880686
This
Neets screaming "muh sandbox is better guys" sound the same as the faggots screaming "muh open world games are better"
>>340880686
>t. Cuck
Quick lesson for the young ones.
>>340880686
>Themepark MMOS > Sandbox MMOs
sure, if you don't actually want to play an mmo and just want a singleplayer game you pay a monthly fee for
![Unpinning2[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/kihAFnl.gif "Unpinning2[1].gif")
Guise I have 2 questions.
1. What MMOs have good action-oriented combat? As opposed to tab-targeting.
2. What MMOs have physics-based ragdolls?
>>340880504
61 replies without ffxivshitters
wew
>>340881242
>61 replies without ffxivshitters
try 3 you illiterate retard
>>340871891
I miss Aion, NCSoft korea turned it into shit, and NCSoft US made it even worse.
What's left of Aion US community is a bunch of cucks who spends 1000 bucks on mt bullshit.
>>340880686
if sandboxes were any good, they wouldn't be extinct or kickstarter only by now.
>>340881379
oh shit
>>340881025
>waaah people are better and more dedicated than me waaaah exclusivity sucks!!!: the image
>>340881216
>What MMOs have good action-oriented combat? As opposed to tab-targeting.
Tera is really the only one that has a decent population and fits that description.
>2. What MMOs have physics-based ragdolls?
None.
>>340880686
>>340880847
This is entirely a matter of personal taste and what kind of games you like to play.
Personally I find sandbox style MMOs a lot more engrossing.
>>340881545
Tera uses tab target combat except it's done automatically when you aim at a target.
>>340881401
They're extinct because it turns out the sheer amount of brainless troglodytes who enjoy hollow gear treadmills makes themeparks more profitable.
>>340881242
Sorry that I triggered you anon but you know it's true.
>>340881671
lol no.
if there was a audience for sandbox MMOs even a small one, it would be profitable enough.
but sandbox mmos are so niche that they can't even get a profitable small following. everyone would rather play sandbox inspired games like minecraft or ARK than some shitty sandbox MMO.
>>340880374
This is all correct. MMOs became the way they are because the people who spend the most money on them want them this way.
It's a gamble, but I think devs should be looking at ways to provide new multiplayer experiences. We've done the 5000-players in a huge world thing for a while now and it's in a rut. But what if we had 100 players in a smaller, more detailed world like that of an Elder Scrolls game, where players existed as a part of the world and not its focus? What about a game where groups of players control fortresses that exist in their own instance and dynamically connect to other instances as players head off into the wilderness? Why has no one else explored the Guild Wars model of MMO towns with detailed, instanced zones? There are so many possibilities, but no one wants to gamble on such a huge investment.
>>340881837
EVE exists.
>>340877601
I'm pretty sure there's a client modification that fixes up a lot of problems the client has as far as stability. You're still going to get frame drops in Dunbarton and packed raids but everywhere else is fine. I'm not sure why no one ever speaks of these things though.
>>340881945
wow 1 game exists in a genre that's gone extinct.
>>340881945
Anon EVE only exist because jews can profit from it, but otherwise it is literal shit
>>340881512
>reading comprehension: the post
>>340873202
>How's Icarus?
I saw it was by Nexon and lost all interest
>>340874142
>PVP focused. Shards live and die, and have different themes / rules accordingly. Like a server stays up for a month or two and all it is is just a big, long war.
Crowfall
>>340882000
Backpedal harder, faget. You said there was no audience, but there is.
>>340881847
video games are about making money with the least amount of development effort and money consumed as possible to appeal to the largest possible spending audience, not catering to a niche audience of NEETs.
>>340882271
But that audience is leaving for other sandbox games that AREN'T mmos
see star citizen, ark, dayz, etc.
>>340882271
so, do you play EVE anon?
>>340882278
>video games are about making money with the least amount of development effort and money consumed as possible to appeal to the largest possible spending audience
like all industries based on creative works this is only half true because it fails to account for independent creators/small groups that are more interested in their creative vision than money
>>340882278
I find it ironic that you're referring to the people who might prefer an innovative experience to a bog-standard gear treadmill MMO as NEETs.
>>340882504
how is that ironic at all
do you even know what a NEET is
>>340882478
>independent creators/small groups
their called indie groups and they are in it primarily for the money too, the creative vision comes second.
>>340881025
What is this trying to communicate? "More content" is a net positive. Less content is a negative, unless the new content is shit. The only way this could be negative is if devs constantly ignored the large portion of its players to cater to a tiny minority (i.e. not how any dev prioritizes resources, ever) to pump out repetitive filler to appease the progression minded. Look at WoW patch frequency and tell me how this design philosophy is in any way at work at Blizzard. The problem now is a lack of current content- in other words, exactly what the guy in that image was complaining about.
>>340882606
>their called indie groups and they are in it primarily for the money too, the creative vision comes second.
no they aren't
if that's true you have to explain all the freeware games that shouldn't exist because they don't make a profit
>>340880504
>Best current MMO is FFXIV hands down
I resubbed for 3.3 because I got the urge to finally play some mmorpg again after 9 months of abstinence
goddamn the game plays exactly like I did when I left it. If you hadn't told me that expert roulette is now two new dungeons I wouldn't have noticed.
Maybe deep dungeons will revive my interest, but other than that there's not a single reason for me to log in anymore.
>>340882504
>innovative experience
>sandbox mmos
lol
>>340882231
>Crowfall
it's not out yet and I'm not paying 100 bucks for early access
![aion_wall_robe[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/cqtcolc.jpg "aion_wall_robe[1].jpg")
I love how someone is repeating this same thread everyday, and everyone is baited into posting their "miracle ideas" that will save the genre, thinking anything they write will ever matter to any mmo developed.
You people keep asking for unrealistic goals, and features that haven't even been invented.
>I want WoW with good combat
>I want Tera with good content
>I want muh sandbox game where I can craft muh brand and sell my line of underwear across the entire continent
>I want to be a pirate on a ship
>I want muh ragnarok grinding but also raid progression
>I want the cash shop to be ONLY cosmetic and the game to survive on the laugh of children and unicorn farts
>I want it to be BR free
>I want the Secret world with WoW combat
>I want my armor to get damaged in real time and having a squire that repairs it while I drink fine ale
>I want a massive open world with dynamic objectives and unique events that will never repeat themselves!
keep dreaming, no one goes into a fighting games thread and start hallucinating with a million features they want in the game, either you like it or you hate it, stop fantasizing about how amazing it would be if it had THAT ONE feature you think would make it perfect.
>>340882759
>I literally did not read two posts up the reply chain to find out what was actually being discussed
>>340882703
if they aren't in it directly for money, they are in it for another gain. I can assure you that the creative vision comes second to that other gain.
>>340882786
just sayin, what you're looking for is coming up
>>340882478
And all the inbetweens. I am sure there are some larger devs that have some degree of passion in their work alongside trying to make a profit. Some more than others. And likely some where certain members of the team are more creativiely motivated and others profit-driven.
>>340882880
those aren't innovative
>>340882797
I love winged girls so much
#1 fetish, Aion was da bomb in terms of character design
flying/gliding really cool mechanic as well
>>340882736
>the game plays exactly like I did when I left it
What did you expect anon? a full blown expansion pack with new classes and skills?
>>340882889
>they are in it for another gain. I can assure you that the creative vision comes second to that other gain.
please enlighten me, oh mr. expert on human psychology
i'm sure the psych 101 course you took in community college was truly revolutionary and explains everything
>>340882736
All they added was more PVE/PVP content, if you wanted the game to drastically change its gameplay and progression formula within 9 months then you're stupid.
>>340883008
better mob and instance design, something of a challenge that doesn't require 7 other people
>>340883005
speaking of, is aion still alive?
>>340883112
What MMO is challenging?
You have five seconds to name a MMO that still has a subscription fee to keep the BRs out, servers still booming with players (1000+), getting new content, and isn't WoW or FFXIV.
You can't.
>>340883390
EVE
black desert currently is the best on available right now
people trying to shill FFXIV, anyone that plays FFXIV will tell you how dead the game is, and how it feels, and how every zone feels like a ghost town with literally no one communicating at all, the entire game compartmentalized into duty finders and raid finders, with no semblance of a community at all
if you want to check out a mmo you can play like a singleplayer game, check out ESO, its got compelling quests and its less of a themepark, you are rewarded for exploring and quests arent all in set towns, you have to go out and explore to get new quests. its a very rewarding game to play
i'd recommend ESO if you ever were a huge fan of skyrim
i'd recommend black desert for anyone else, looking for something special something unique in the mmo genre
>>340882402
lol no. those games are unfinished pieces of shit.
>>340882909
at the pace they're progressing the game won't be finished by 2030 if they want to make it as good as they promise, seriously have you even seen what they've done in the past few months? it's literally nothing, all you have is this pvp shit mini game with some survival mode a la hunger games, enemies take forever to kill, skills are just uninteresting, it's fugly (but yeah sure it's alpha and somehow it will be fixed by release), I'm never getting hyped for an mmo that isn't in a near release state, which is literally never since they always get pushed into launching early when they run out of money.
>>340871891
>What ruined MMOs?
No friends to play with me.
>>340883356
XIV with 7 other people(especially if they are duty finder shitters from Balmung).
>>340883390
EVE, I guess.
>>340883594
yet that are more alive and successful than any other modern Sandbox MMO to date. Shows how shitty MMOs are.
Is crowfall actually fun to play
>>340883501
>>340883687
EVE has BRs and third world ISK sellers who pay for gametime through in-game currency.
>>340881642
You are thinking of BnS. Tera has very very few "tab targeted" skills. Only one which come to mind are 1 healing spell and 1 spell for Archer and Sorc.
>>340882797
I feel that Mabinogi and both Runescape versions are pretty much the ideal modern MMOs as they offer a lot of stuff regarding skills and quests. and that it takes a long time to get to the end.
However they do both have flaws as far as monetary stuff like both games gachashit on top of Mabinogi's pet/outfit cards and Runescape's subs and bonds, but I'm not sure what could re-invent those two games in order to grab more players without ruining the game.
>>340883804
So you just want something region locked to north america?
>>340883390
Oldschool Runescape
>>340883520
>complains about shills
>then acts like just like shill
I hope you enjoy your $0.005 reward, anon.
>>340883112
minimum item level option is there in duty settings if you want a challenge
>>340871891
>What ruined MMOS
I personally can't really commentate or guess as to why they're ruined, I'm just going to throw out that some are just super stale and can't hold up out the gate, either from combat or because they promise far too much than can be delivered.
>How to fix
Harder to say since there's not really a fix all.
>Ideal MMO
Mabinogi 2, an actual sequel to the first one and not Vindictus 2: Arena.
I feel that Mabi actually manages to capture the idea of actual freedom and a charming world that you can explore on your own without being forced around places, there's no rush or race to become the best at something either, you're free to do things at your own pace and not have to worry about level cap.
Mabinogi really just needs a better engine and better graphics and it'd probably be a 9/10 mmo, at least in my opinion and experience with it.
>Waiting for
Actual Mabinogi 2. Also Peria chronicals.
>>340883839
>gachashit on top of Mabinogi's pet/outfit cards and Runescape's subs and bonds
I didn't phase that right. The gachashit is controversial and annoying but both game's main income are alright for the end.
>>340883005
Flying was the worst part of Aion. Gliding only zones were pretty great, and i see why later games copied it from Aion, but flying was just utter shit.
>Combat on a 3D plane with 3 times normal movement speed
>Melee classes can't stay in range for a quarter of a second outside from using their ranged stuns
>Need to grind some materials from the sky
>3 minutes of doing fuck nothing, waiting for your fly meter to charge up for every 1 minute of gathering
>>340883390
>>340883804
WoW and XIV also have BRs and third world laggers, you know.
Old School Runescape is the shit. I wish I had more people to play with though
>>340883973
>that image
Jontron?
>>340883968
>minimum item level option is there in duty settings if you want a challenge
does anyone actually play that setting?
>>340884215
Maybe.Nah, just a fat giant who's also a hero by how legendary his cooking is. Has a place next to the ultimate mage, ultimate alchemist, ultimate bard and ultimate treasure hunterCooking is a great skill
>>340883520
FFIXV is only dead if you play on the lowest population servers like Mateus or Jenova.
Chocobo, Leviathan, Excalibur, Gilgamesh, Balmung, Exodus, Behemoth, Shiva, etc are all webm related right now inside towns and outside.
>>340883520
BDO was such a chore, like the game rewards you for not even playing, so much facebook integration with those points you unlock to link cities and have your slaves gather shit every now and then, and having to afk fish for more money, in a game where money literally makes you stronger.
It's too much effort and no reward, even if you go full autsimo, get to softcap, gear up with the best shit to +15, then what?
Not to mention the stupidly broken cash shop.
>>340883520
>black desert currently is the best on available right now
oh no, it really isn't anon, sure it is fun but it's just so bland and not worth it, you are better off making an account in Vindictus
>anyone that plays FFXIV will tell you how dead the game is
I literally resubed this morning and it is full of people doing shit, gathering and crafting everywhere, the golden saucer has a lot of people running around too.
>i'd recommend ESO if you ever were a huge fan of skyrim
hello shill friend
>>340871891
>What ruined MMOs?
A shifting target demographic. Original MMOs had little room for high execution gameplay since they were either turn based MUDs or laggy pieces of shit (by today's standards). Thus the gameplay had to come from strategy, community reputation, and character management. As things moved forwards, more developed MMOs were created which kept these ideals alive and also had tighter controls and less lag. Enter World of Warcraft, where the difficulty of a raid like Molten Core came not from executing the encounters properly, but instead it came from actually getting 40 bodies in the instance and ready to go at the same time to actually try. You could afford some dead weight as long as they would pound on the boss for at least half the fight, because you just needed the raw bodies to absorb unavoidable damage and debuffs. But it wasnt HARD to do.
It was hard to have the right gear, potions, ammunition, spell components, and coordination to get the pulls going in a timely manner.
Naxx was one of the hardest raids to complete, not because of the mechanics, but because of the sheer difficulty of finding enough people geared enough to set foot in the place. The amount of preparation required to attempt the bosses was so staggering that nobody had a chance to see the content.
To "fix" this "problem", the game started shifting towards a high execution requirement and a lesser preparation requirement. 10 man raids gave better gear than before, 25 man raids were introduced, and entry requirements were greatly relaxed. Gear was aquirable from currencies from easy content as well as drops, cutting time to gear up significantly. Player power at max gear started to become extraordinary, allowing dps slots in the already small raids to be freed up to carry bad players.
Enter Dungeon Finder, Flying while questing, welfare loot, ludicrous power creep, and ever growing popularity of WoW, and all new MMOs followed the format of "high execution, low prep"
>>340883839
I honestly feel that mabinogi's cashshop jewery, at least in comparison to the other ones (Fucking MAPLESTORY) isn't that bad.Is what I would say if I didn't have to scramble for two barding accesories during that event. I miss my puppet theater outfit dammit, but I want to be the best bard ever.
>>340884360
Did people even get the bard card? The cooking and mage skills you get from their cards are awesome and the alchemist has the 2nd best guard cylinder along with a head start in alchemy.
I'm not sure about treasure hunter though, all he really has is the aggro reset skill.
I'm playing a 15 year old mmo. Really enjoying it back in it's original form.
Made before a time when mmo's were just made to attract as many people as possible and cash in hard on them.
>>340884465
wow look at that amazing city full of people doing... nothing, just idling in town because there's nothing to do
I can make a webm with that much people idling on a city on fucking WildStar, show me people actually grouping in the combat fields doing anything worthwhile.
>>340871891
aion was fun
patch 2.0 gelkmaros perma kisk camping in the best kisk spot which takes 2 hours to jump to is the best desu senpai
before i quit i got banned for killing people in the level 51-52 "safe zone" which didn't exist in asian servers only in west for some reason
>>340879918
>Honestly if someone just made a pure clone of gw2 with actual bosses that aren't health sponges, writers who actually give a shit, and pvp that wasn't imbalanced as fuck, that'd be perfect.
Dragons not acting as forces of nature, rather as insidious geniuses playing the Charr, Asura, Humans and Norn into doing stuff for them. Sylvari stick by Mordremoth.
Actually, why so many people claim that it was "casuals" who "ruined" MMO genre?
I keep hearing all those complains like "stupid casuals wants instant gratification, not willing to grind for months to get max level" and so on. I understand, that players wants to have content to play, but would such maximum grind really fun thing to do? I mean, it should be gameplay itself that holds people to the game.
Intense and well designed PvP lets player sink into the game and keep playing mostly for the fun itself, than numbers. Well made dungeons will keep people playing them for fun and enjoyable clearing and combat, instead of that item with 0,00001% chance for drop. If you clear the dungeon for months with different parties solely because of certain item set and dont even want to touch it, once you gather them all, then the gameplay itself is flawed.
The feeling of progress is also important. Any sane people will stop playing, if growth and progress is hard to noticed.
And most important, considering all this "casuals bashing" - not everybody is NEET that can play for 12 hours per day. I, myself, enjoy some MMO playing from time to time, but I can only spend max 2 hours on it per day - Im not a slave to numbers and stats inflation, instead seeking fun. And when devs started to notice this pattern, people began bashing them for "abandoning true core of MMOs". This is ridiculous.
>tfw devcat will never make a Mabinogi 2 that just improves upon everything of the Mabinogi formula and with better graphics
w-why
>>340884783
I want to say that some people might, remember that they all (at least the elites) came with badges that gave 2x training with the select skills.
And training bard/puppetry/cleric all at once isn't that bad for a bard card.
Treasure hunter is..less than okay, the artifact finding and cleaning are less than okay ones and his crisis escape is great but his 3 talents are lackluster (Adventure which requires skill books more than actual training, Merchant which is only 2 skills and gunner which is okay)I'm still mad they turned Treasure hunter from cute brown elf into generic human spic.
>>340884465
>Slutty catfag glamor
Sup Balmung, I see 1/5th playing the market, 1/5th queuing for a dungeon and 3/5th ERPing
>>340884753
cont.
>How do we fix them?
We don't. In the end, the community and preparation based challenges from old MMOs is simply a result of a flawed and low-power platform (i.e. early online pc gaming). End-game MMO content will always revolve around high execution. That's not to say that the high preparation gameplay doesnt exist, even in current World of Warcraft, but you wont see it unless you are leading your own Heroic or Mythic raid group. Organizing buffs, strategies, holding meetings to resolve social issues in your group. You have to actually be leading your own community if you want to have that be your MMO experience.
>>340885292
>Slutty catfag glamor
He's level 1
Are you calling my racial gear slutty you fucking racist?
>>340884869
I went outside of town and found a shit ton of people questing outside, doing hunts, fate quests, beast tribes, leves, etc.
this is on a medium population server btw. not even close to overcrowded servers.
>>340885005
>but I can only spend max 2 hours on it per day
anon that pretty much invalidated anything you said
Basically you want mmos to have like 20 hours of content because you can't play more than that and have other stuff to do, why don't you just stick to the 10 hour single player games or something, why do you need to make the inmersion games be shit just so you can enjoy them without feeling weak? go play a moba, or dragon age, or any arena casual shit I don't know.
It's like me going to a football match and asking them to finish the game after the first goal because I lose interest after that, or tell them to lower the player size to 5v5 because I can't really keep track of 22 people on the field.
The problem is money is the onyl thing that matters, and videogames survive by baiting as many people as possible, keeping them playing doesn't really make you more money, unless you have a monthly fee, hence why devs decided to make ultra appealing mmos that allowed them to milk casuals like you who don't run out of content as easily. Why must the rest of the world be punished by your shitty standard of 2 hours a day max? there's people with full time jobs that still play 6-8hrs a day and 12+ on the weekends, they have as much right for entertainment as you, but you're just a little entitled bitch complaining about a game she doesn't even care about.
>>340885175
Maybe one day.And then it'll just be arena
>>340879608
>seeing as their implementation of mentioned fundamental systems is absolutely fucking garbage.
It's literally an alpha that just got kickstarted and doesn't even have a majority of those features yet. What the fuck are you talking about, anon? Stop being such a pessimistic little shit.
Their mechanics ruined them, they inspire you to stick around for a gear grind by replaying the same content forever, at least until a new expansion comes, instead of having player replay the content because they enjoy it. That and their gameplay is almost universally boring and shitty.
>want to play MMO
>there are people that play so shit that it makes me want to play mmo alone
>turn off world chat, disable chat, don't talk
>feel lonely
>>340885954
You dont get it at all.
I dont want 20 hours content game - I want 800 hours content game, but where I dont have to grind 24/7 for months solely to reach the point of having best gear and nothing to do, because the whole purpose of the game was to grind and get better gear.
I want MMOs where GAMEPLAY is goal, not GRIND. Where its not how whole game is road to "endgame" - where whole game IS "endgame". I want to play and have fun with people, not having second work, like "hardcore" MMOs are like.
And finally, I want games that are not adjusted solely for very few NEETs (how they get money for living and games anyway?) but for everyone.
>>340871891
>Aion
Was a very promising game, too bad NCSoft and Gameforge butchered it with terrible execution. I want my 3 years of life back.
>>340886712
yeah but that game doesn't exist
or if it does, why aren't you playing it
Try OSRS or UO private servers.
>>340871891
>What ruined MMOs?
WoW with it's themepark MMO design
>How do we fix them?
Go back to games like PSO
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
Like VR .hack but that's impossible currently
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
Currently playing Ephinea PSO server, even though the game is more than a decade old the game's progression mechanics still hold up today. Gear is more important than levels, endgame isn't rushing to the level cap or doing some big raid, everyone can build their own role/class through unique itemization like Diablo.
>>340883759
even if it is are you really going to pay 100 for early access?
>>340885954
>there's people with full time jobs that still play 6-8hrs a day and 12+ on the weekends
Technically impossible, I must also point out.
You need 7-8 hours of sleep per day to operate properly, or you either turn psychotic (this case was well researched) or randomly fall asleep during the day to compensate, since your body NEED sleep.
Lets assume that you have 7 hours of sleep. Out of 24 hours, this leads to 17 hours of activity. Full time job means 8 hours - that leave you with 9. Traveling to and from work - add 2 hours. Add one hour for shopping and another to prepare food for yourself, so you wont starve. Add helf and hour total for cleaning and using toilet, if you are really organized and can squeeze it like that. How much you have left?
4,5 hours. Thats, it, if you dont have family yet and assuming that you squeeze all remaining time into games.
>>340885954
hear hear!
>>340886712
Unfortunately the 2 don't mix well. You listen to people who love these types of games and feel the reward of spending the time and putting the effort in and you want to be a part of that... but without putting in any time or effort.
We've found that out, after millions of failed dollars and years of flopping mmo's that these things are unable to mix.
>>340886843
It existed. GW2, before they went full retard with Fractals and later with Heart of Thorns.
I manager to get out around 850 hours before I got full, tho, so I consider it good investment to buy it with release.
FFXIV is my go to MMO. Easy to get in casually, poopsockingly hard if you care about raiding progression or omnicrafting. Not too hard to catch up if you haven't played in awhile. Multiple servers still locked daily because of the sheer amount of active players.
>>340887354
>Traveling to and from work - add 2 hours
you're trying really hard to be right but you're still failing
>>340887779
How much does it cost? You pay each time there's an expansion and you pay monthly?
>>340872628
>FFXIV is pretty good senpai
It's just WoW again.
There is nothing exceptionally good or special about ARR.
It's just another WoW clone.
I just noticed Wildstar has become F2P. I'd completely forgotten about that game. I remember it being hyped as shit before release.
Is it worth trying, even as a F2P game?
>>340888092
Not really
>>340887962
Base game is like $5-10 on G2A
Newegg was selling the game+expansion for $20 last week
You get your first month free then you pay $12 a month afterwards to continue.
>>340887850
I live in pretty good localization, close to communication lines and need at least 45 minutes to reach my workplace - assuming no jams and such.
Thats how it looks like in big city, anon. I know a lot of people, that are not as fortunate.
>>340888092
Imo it is.
Go ahead and have some fun with it, the end game is fun too but the game is just too dead. And you can just play mostly as one faction since the other one is also dead.
>>340887997
It's WoW but more refined and not 12 years old.
>>340885005
I don't get your post. What "we want casual audience" have to do with quality game design? What grindy PvE have to do with PvP? Are you saying that a MMO without instant gratification can't have good stuff like cool dungeons, fun combat and interesting itemization? That all you have to do is to remove grinding and all other aspects of the game will magically become better?
About your question (the only thing that makes sense to me), the thing about casual audience is that, before WoW happened and indirectly created rules of "how to MMO" (creating the "WoW clone" effec), MMOs are created for a community to work as a community. An easy to spot example is Ragnarok, everything was designed in a way that people will always interact with each other even for the simplest thing like transportation or looking for a specific enemy that don't have a fixed spawn point. Hell, maps had pointless spots for people to chill and talk with each other. And yes, grinding is also in this package, believe it or not. To put it simple and not reach the post limit: if shit is easy to get, there is no reason to work together to begin with.
MMOs designed for this new audience will always try to put all casual stuff on release to instantly please the player as an individual number. So we have stuff like single player progression all the way to the endgame, hand-holding ruining itemization and character customization, datamining and veterans forcing new players to read guides to do even the most basic multiplayer content.
That is the point of a massively multiplayer game if it plays like a single-player game with always-online DRM? That is why the genre is so dead and these instanced games are getting so popular nowadays. This is probably what you are looking for, instanced game always have solo progression and are designed to be played a few hours per day.
You just have to accept that there are other people looking for a completely different thing because they actually enjoy it.
>>340888092
Wildstar is dead as fuck now. They just closed the last PVP server awhile back.
Now there's only two PVE servers.
>What ruined MMOs?
From a design standpoint the problem's become the demographic is too spread out now, where they were previously homogeneous.
You have people who have been playing encounters for 15+ years, and people that are going to start trying content like this for the first time today. As a developer you're trying to design something that entertains both of them -- this is like trying to find a rock climb for someone that this is their first climb, and someone that's a world rate speed climber. Anything you design for the pro will be a complete disaster for the newbie to even touch, and they will quit saying it is impossible to even begin unless you dedicate a lifetime to it. Anything you design to be doable by the newbie, the pro will have no interest in doing.
The newbies outnumber the old pros, and expect to be able to jump the learning curve and compete on even ground, and this was initially facilitated by the dissemination of meta information (data mining, boss strategy videos, etc) that would jump past the experience of figuring out what to do into being told exactly what to do. This makes playing it feel less like you're playing guitar and more like you're playing Guitar Hero; and people lose interest as they become more experienced than the content caters towards.
>How do we fix them?
Contested content is the only way to fix this in the modern day. When you turn it into a competitive environment, information sharing becomes limited, and things like boss strategies turn into guild secrets instead of youtube tutorials.
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
I haven't particularly fleshed one out, but it would be based on contested endgame to keep meta information suppressed, and combat mechanics designed to create major space between the floor and ceiling with a lot more situational abilities and eliminating simple rotations as much as possible.
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
Nothing
>>340871891
>what's the perfect MMO
A massive multiplayer online game where interacting with people is neccessary and fun.
EZ
just give me back prime guild wars 1
>What ruined MMOs
The novelty wore off and you grew up. You are no longer in grade school where everyone and there brother plays MMOs. All them grew up and got jobs while you continue to try to have fun with playing online games with teens.
>What do we do to fix them?
Go back in time
>>340887962
you pay $12 monthly, patches are free, the expansions cost money, so far the game has only 1 expansion, heavensward.
SE releases a major patch every 2 months, with tiny patches in between, I believe we have 2 more major patches before the next expansion is announced, so maybe 5-6 months before they show us something about the next expansion.
>>340871891
>How do we fix them?
Non-shit gameplay.
>>340888625
>>340888363
To be fair it just released on Steam on June 3rd.
Maybe it will help.
I used to play EQ and Ragnarok Online, I treat FFXIV like a retirement home MMO. It's actually pretty comfy.
>>340887997
no anon, it's not just WoW, you gotta admit the music and visuals are better, also most fights are more engaging that WoW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JDvFrnb82w
don't even look at FFXIV if you're not into weeb shit
>>340885925
That's bullshit you fucking faggot.
Those people are there for a hunt, not questing or levelling.
All leveling is done in instances.
All questing is solo'ed.
The only reason people go out into a field is for FATE grind or Hunts.
FFXIV might have some redeeming features, but the fact that 90% of the game is instanced fucking ruins it.
I just want a hack n slash mmo with combat like dark souls but designed for multiple players.
>>340889585
>b-but the game is dead!!
>shows him is not dead
>b-but show them doing something!!
>shows them doing something
>b-but that doesn't count because all is instanced and .. and fate grinding and hunts don't count you fucking faggot!!
Nah you fuck off now
>>340889484
At this point, WoW is more weebshit than FFXIV.
>Fighting ancient dragons and slaying old gods and kings in FFXIV
vs
>Fighting demons that turned holy but are now """"corrupted""""" while also being the senpai of your class hall and faction in WoW
>>340883954
>all those obvious as fuck shill threads of ffxiv /vg/fags who are so desparate for new blood because theyve fucking tainted and ruined anyone actually trying to enjoy an mmo
>>340884535
>fotm shitter trying to make little paltry complaints like he isnt fotm as fuck
you're cancer,. shut the fuck up
>>340884561
>NO IT ISNT
>doesnt explain why
>proceeds to tell me how much of a fotm shitter he really he is by saying he only just now today subbed this morning, when people like myself have been actively playing mmos for months
ESO had 2 huge expansions launch just recently and is fun to explore and take slow
BDO is best sandbox mmo out there period, with tons of new content everyday
FFXIV gets 1 content patch in 6+ months, and even then, they fucked that up and needed to cut content from that patch, because hurrr reasons , with tons of PR cycle and hype for those patch updates, BDO literally gets 10x more content in under 2 months of launch in NA, for fucking free. meanwhile you are paying FFXIV sub money for fuck all because the servers are complete shit and once again, reminding you how fucking dead the communtiy is for the game and how compartmentalized and hallow the entire community has become.
yeah youre cute webm tries to show of population, of 100 people sitting in town doing jack shit, because theres jack shit to do but queue for some compartmentalized dungeons dont get me started on how complete fucking shit the actual gameplay of that game is, and how fucking routine scripted and boring the boss fights are, 100% exactly the same everytime
is EQ2 still worth playing?
back when i tried it I quit because leveling up your side stats or whatever the skill progression was named was hard as fuck, you had to gimp yourself and limit your level, then clear all the content at your range, otherwise if you rush leveling you hit end game and you are at like 90/250 progression points or something, compared to 180-220/250 from someone who actually level capped himself apropiately and then just got the rest of the points form dungeons and raids.
Then the game became F2P and you had a slider to make your character earn exp points, or job points, but if didn't have premium the lider was locked right in the middle, and you would end up pretty much in a similar situation as before if you didn't pay.
I loved the crafting, but that progression cockblock really ruined my fun, anyone still play this nowadays? also pvp servers were a fucking griefing nightmare, hordes of lvl 15 mini dudes with mini horses running at the speed of light gang banging anyone who dares trying leveling in the low level zones.
>>340889930
thats not weeb, thats just corny storyline straight out of ass
>>340871891
WoW was/is the best mmo
all the faggots saying it ruined mmos are faggots who actually enjoy low production value trash
and jackoff to shit """games""" on indigogo and greenlight
probably this thread was made by one of the ad hominem fags in the earlier wow thread
>>340889484
FFXIV is fairly tame was far as weebshit go, korean shit usually is the ones trying to hard to be as japanese as possible.
>>340889585
>All leveling is done in instances
but logs, leves, fates, beast tribes, and more give better EXP and are in the open world and not behind instances
>all questing is solo'ed
the main story FORCES you to group up with people multiple times just to continue
>The only reason people go out into a field is for FATE grind or Hunts.
lol
I can't tell whether you're stupid or you couldn't even get into a good server.
>>340890071
fuck off shill
>>340889816
black desert online looks really good but i don't feel like spending money now
it actually looks like it has every desirable feature for MMOs and i'm surprised no one in this thread mentioned it
>>340888440
I actually played Ragnarok before WoW and I can easily call RO good example of how to make MMO interesting, despite being grindy (this is also the only MMO where I was actively taking part in PvP, mode I avoid at all cost in any other MMOs). Thats pretty much what I had in mind when I said that MMO should make people want to play for the sake of gameplay, instead of for the sake of numbers.
Also, "WoW clone" was stupid name. More fitting would be "Everquest clone", as WoW took many elements from there.
As for "other people" - I refered to how the general reaction looks like, whenever new MMO comes and people start crying over how they want "golden age" back. Wildstar was supposed to be game like that and failed hard.
>>340890071
>25 dollars to be invisible in pvp
>muh sandbox where everything is free and amazing and BR free
Sure anon sure, keep grinding your shit and farming those contribution points and afking waiting for energy to recharge like an android game but now on HD and for only $30.
>>340890396
you have chicks with cats ears and kawai monsters at every corner
it's as weeb as it gets
>>340890568
black desert online is flavour of the month shit.
client ran like ass during the korean beta and still runs like ass now, texture popping issues even with a Core i7, GTX 980, and the game running on a Sata 3 SSD.
endgame boils down to NEET guilds controlling everything from the markets to the contested areas, can't get shit done unless you suck their dick or go solely PVE and that's something the game is severely lacking. it's like a big sandbox but without the proper tools.
anyone playing ufo:online invasion on steam? player economy, limited durability items, drop shit when you die simultaneous turns turn based game.
>>340872232
>communities, PBEs and sites like MMo champion
Why? Communities don't have anything to do with WoW rehashing. Quest helpers and datamining doesn't even affect max level gameplay, and leveling is awful.
>we dont
I'm sure any theme park vs sandbox discussion would have something more to say.
>>340872608
Above.
Low drop rates are unnecessary for deep crafting and interesting combat, which is from what the genre would really benefit.
>>340872632
MMOs aren't really challenging. The idea that pandering is somehow responsible for the rehash, uninspired MMOs that come or all the negatives of leveling and theme park design is underwhelming, to say the least.
>>340873089
EVE's leveling system prevents it from having a thriving end game. The idea that every corp could be a Goons is fantastic, and the progression obviously comes through getting and losing ships, developing ships and items and markets, the intense logistics that come with that, corp development, game knowledge, real piloting skill, etc.
SWG doesn't really exist. MMO is a very specific type of game, which is the definition of a genre.
>>340873193
I can't imagine making a cross-server persistent game and implementing phasing is much of a task, especially if only implementing phasing (for that true MMO feel) after making money. WoW has to phase in players after like 50yds. if there are more than 40-80 players around, as is evident with the larger BGs, so it's standard.
>>340874736
"Casual" is such a copout. 90% of MMOs aren't entertaining or unique.
>The modern audience demands certain features that had nothing to do with old MMOs, like streamlined solo leveling all the way to the level cap
Leveling isn't even necessary for a super neat game, as is mentioned already.
>instanced content with party queue for easy-to-set-up runs
Even if this were true, games can be fun with instanced content but also have free roam design that's what would fulfill most criticisms here.
/character limit
>>340877269
Seems fine.
>>340890597
>instead of for the sake of numbers
People also played RO for numbers. Grinding to get big numbers is a very common thing in MMOs, old or new, because some people actually enjoyed it. But yes, RO was good because it had more than just numbers (but it also had them and lots of min-maxing thanks to itemization and customizable builds, so "best of both worlds", I guess?).
>Wildstar was supposed to be game like that and failed hard.
I honestly don't remember a single thing about Wildstar's development/hype train that was similar to the "golden age" MMOs, it was more about being new and how it looked very fun (and cutscenes trying a bit to hard to be a Pixar movie). I would agree if you said GW2, everybody hoped for a "[r]evolution of the genre" during development.
>>340890071
>FFXIV gets 1 content patch in 6+ months
1 major patch per 3 months with 2 smaller patches every 3-4 weeks after major patch launch.
There's a new raid tier every 6 months but that's it.
>every game is now some kind of fucking action based combat wombat game
>people barely even have time to chat with eachother because you have to mash your keys like a fucking retard just to avoid shit and deal damage at the same time
>also they're allowed to solo for some reason
why even bother
why not just play a fucking singleplayer game at that point
>>340871891
Facebook and other stuff like that.
MMOs were glorified chatrooms.
>>340892230
are people so autistic that they can't use voice chat and play at the same time?
>>340892956
>voice chat
>globally enabled on an MMO
holy shit kill yourself please no
or else
>playing MMOs with friends you already have
holy shit what is wrong with you
>>340892956
voice chat is the worst thing to ever happen to mmos
>>340892230
>why not just play a fucking singleplayer game at that point
Because I want to be able to still play the game if my schedule that week doesn't match up with 5 other people?
>>340893187
>5 other people
Pretty sure most MMOs have more people than that buddy.
But I'll teach you the ancient ways of getting a party:
>Dumbfuck: anyone want to grind big boner?? LV93 BigGuy
>literallywho: sure bruh join party lets get a grind party going
Does anyone remember that one shitty MMO Neo-Steam or whatever? I do ;_;
>>340893157
why is that?
people can't pretend to be a girl anymore?
>>340893660
>I'll teach you the ancient ways of getting a party
I still do that today in FFXIV though
>>340893719
I kinda like the them behind it. 2 factions, one techfags, and the other treehuggers.
Never did get far in the game, just played a little to get a feel and see what the game was about, and when I had the crave to play it again they closed it down.
>>340883695
>other modern sandbox MMOs
>as if they exist
I miss when MMOs allowed you to make cool ass builds and there was no defined holy trinity. A spellcaster character could become a battle mage through proper itemization, not because the game told you you can.
>>340877269
Yeah, Gameplay > "Looking good"
>>340894117
I did too. I remember I walked outside of the starter town to kill some trash mobs and see what class I chose was like and I got one shot by like a slime or something, there were like 20 other dead bodies there too if I remember, think it was some kind of bug.
>>340892230
>why not just play a fucking singleplayer game at that point
I swear, after trying out Tree of Savior I instantly felt horrible for every hour of soloing I'd done in every MMO there ever was, knowing very well that my retarded hours spent playing an online game alone contributed to the making of the solo singleplayer quest based RPG piece of shit that was Tree of Savior.
At least the retarded developers got gooks shitting on them because they forgot you had to be able to actually play with other people in MMOs.
Also image related, Maplestory developers who I would verily like to kick in the nads.
>>340894468
Mortal Online
Xsyon
Darkfall
The Repopulation
Dragon's Prophet
Earthrise
Either you're a MrBtongue cumsucker and believe his lies when he says that EVE is "da only sandbox out der" or completely delusional like the rest of your sandbox kind. Admit it, you sandbox cucksters don't even play your own games despite complaining and nagging so much about it.
If you faggots wanted sandbox games, these would have been doing phenomenally well and just beaming with users.
>>340882678
EverQuest was difficult (time-consuming) enough that most players didn't even reach max level. Constantly adding content that no one would likely see was not a good design philosophy for that game. Plenty of content could have been from level 1 and up and it would have seen incredibly more play.
It introduced the design of "get max level, grind new dungeons" to MMOs, when there could have been a nice gradient of levels.
>>340893719
Yes!! I remade my character so many fucking times to find out the perfect race+class combination....
Then i finally found out the best was rogue+human, because they could stun from range with a crossbow, it was broken as fuck. But the problem was the shots leveled slow as fuck, it was almost impossible to increase proficiency with those attacks, it was a pvp madness machine and pretty strong in pve too.
The other one was a summoner, each time you summoned you earned like 4000 experience job points or whatever, so leveling their job stuff was easy as fuck, but they were complete garbage on pvp since summons were retarded.
I'd play it if it was still available.
>>340895101
Don't forget Mabinogi, amazing game but
??wheres the population in International??
>>340894686
>Maplestory devs
I swear i want to know what is going on in their heads.
They keep removing and nerfing PQs in order to promote leveling zones.
>>340894686
ToS becomes mandatory party after 220+ tho, quests are over and grinding solo is almost impossible, even if you're OP it's way slower than grouping.
you could say the first 200 levels quest chain are basically the tutorial
>>340876565
>>340877269
WoW's combat plays "too smooth". A character can do a 720 degree spin in less than a second with a quick camera turn. When you jump, the gravity feels floaty rather than natural. Animations on abilities override clip into each other when executed too fast.
>I still miss it
I can't put my finger on just why it was so good - thought of a few possible reasons...
>Character creator. Everybody looked different, everybody looked amazing.
>Related to above: because the costumes were such a key selling point, gear just wasn't an issue. Upgrades were done by power, a character could be powerful enough to play most endgame content with store-bought enhancements, and rare drops were random, instead of "need/greed" type grabbing. No competition: better team experience
>Did away with DPS/Tank/Healer mindset better than any other MMO I've tried. Can't find an empath? Grab a dark defender who can sink enemy accuracy to 5% in two shots or a controller who can have the entire enemy squad attacking each other instead of you
>combat was FUN. It wasn't about min/maxing your rotation, it was giant fireballs, scrappers with giant spines sticking out of them, ice tanks looking like snowmen and summoning a ninja army to do your bidding
>Possibly because of a combination of the above, the community was amazing. Most people were there to have a good time, there was no way to "steal" anybody's drops, chances are any 8 players would make a passable team (don't need any class except for top level content) and you'd look amazing standing in a group.
>Still miss it
>>340895226
>EQ
>Difficult
As you said, EQ is time-consuming as fuck. I played through the game in the emulator around summer 2010 and I remember only reaching half a level a day as I got to my 30's and 40's, or deleveling constantly from running from trains.
People don't have the patience for that shit.
>>340895551
>ToS becomes mandatory party after 220+ tho
Nope
Quests are incoming for those levels in the next kToS update, the only reason why people grind in anywhere after 200+ is because the game is unfinished beyond that point.
>you could say the first 200 levels quest chain are basically the tutorial
I love how some retard made this as a joke on the iToS forums and now every second dimshit spews it.
>>340895838
I just hope these guys keep their promise on giving us that nostalgic CoH feel as they like to claim.
>>340895551
>200 levels quest chain are basically the tutorial
>200 levels tutorial
That sounds like the most braindead MMO ever.
>>340881976
Oh shit, seriously? Where can I get it?
>>340895551
It's party grinding because the theme park ends and there's nothing else to do. You literally just grind through unfinished shitty areas that aren't meant for grinding because after TWO HUNDRED AND THIRTY FUCKING LEVELS of solo questing the content runs out.
A MMO needs a subscription fee to get a steady stream of meaningful content and ran by a competent development team (Not Blizzard).
FFXIV is literally the only MMO that does it right today. Which is incredibly sad.
>>340896631
And add jewish as fuck publisher that cant into server management.
That is how the game went from 50k daily players to 15k.
Most of the players are ROfags in denial.
>>340895838
>It wasn't about min/maxing
Oh but it was, but you could get away with min/maxing a shitty combo because of how powerful IO enhancements (and later Incarnate powers) were for builds.
>Did away with DPS/Tank/Healer mindset better than any other MMO I've tried.
It didn't but it added upon it instead of trying to remove parts of the trinity like most current-day MMOs do.
>Possibly because of a combination of the above, the community was amazing.
Over time I learned to hate the community (I was on Virtue, the RP server) because they all became giant circle-jerks that ERP'd in their bases and acted smug about everything and never actually RP'd anymore.
Pic semi-related, it's from CO.
>>340895838
NCsoft shuts down this game to herald in their disaster Wildstar.
I still play Elsword. Come at me fuckers.
>>340896525
90% sure that game is going nowhere or by the time it's actually released we'll all be 40+ years old.
>play blade and soul aka bots and sluts
>get to 40 instantly quit game again because its so fucking boring
>>340895569
Obsession with realism and animation consistency is cancer.
What's important is that when you perform an action, whether it be moving your character or casting a spell, it happens on your screen instantly. Clunky interfaces and poor coding shouldn't fight you as you try to play the game.
Focus on graphical fidelity is also cancer. A game can look like fuckin' Oldschool Runescape as long as it's fun and runs well. Devs shouldn't spend 90% of their resources making sure everything looks as detailed and realistic as possible.
>>340898198
>A game can look like playdough shit and still be good
lol
>>340897268
NCSoft are not devs, they are publishers. A developer goes to a publisher to seek out someone who will host for them.
NCSoft has had a hold as publisher when Wildstar was sub still.
Now you know the difference between developer and publisher.
>>340895838
>>340896525
How does Champions Online fair compared to City of Heroes?
Been wanting to play some hero games.
>>340897086
Don't worry they are slacking now, they got a patch recently that took 5 months to deploy even though it should have only took 2.
is it worth buying hearth of thorns?
I watched a wooden potatoes video back on it's release saying it was just a features expansions with barely any content, I didn't want to spend $40 just for 10 hours of content or so.
So is it good? or they're just doing their whole living story updates with no actual persistent content again?
