Nero
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You are currently reading a thread in /v/ - Video Games
You are currently reading a thread in /v/ - Video Games
Why did people hate him?
IIIIICHIIIIGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
he wasn't "anime though guy" enough
>>340569674
Yeah instead he's another anime trope.
He's not Dante.
I can't ACT. I tried it for a week and I just gave up.
>>340569430
There are a couple of reasons.
>Edge
His attitude screams darker Dante. He's more sarcastic and broody than Dante ever was. It also got a little over the top when Kirie was involved.
>Simple
His playstyle is cool, but it got tiring hearing SLAMDUNK every few seconds since his playstyle revolves around using his arm though charging the revolver is where it's at.
>Presentation
Has a little bit to do with his edge, but considering that he is blasting metal during a sermon after kicking demon ass, it might put people off because he's trying way too hard.
>Johnny Yong Bosch
Some people just hate his voice.I like JYB, but he is better-sounding when he is playing someone less hot-headed like Adachi or Lelouch
Take your pick.
>>340569430
I found him way less fun to play than dante. DB and ACT is decent but it doesn't make up for having a bunch of weapons and styles to switch between.
>>340570417
>more [...] broody that Dante ever was
Did you not play DMC2?
>>340569882
Story wise, he's a retread of dmc1 Dante, except he's more petulant. He only exists so they can pull ohnodanteisevil bullshit but no one is going to believe that.
Design wise, we already have two white haired dudes in this series, why do we need a third?
Also Nero can't do shit, uncle Dante cleans up his mess, kills the bosses and does all the real work. Dmc4 is neros first bike ride with training wheels on.
Also his combat style is boring and not CRAYZAY enough
>>340569430
He was pretty good, I liked him.
>>340569430
I don't really know, I liked him quite a lot
I dont hate him. but his game was a big letdown.
>>340569430
muh KEEREEAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
>>340569856
Literally this. He wasn't Virgil or Dante and people kinda want to play as those two.
>>340569430
Because he wasn't Dante.
Then we were given Donte and we wanted him back.
Because he wasn't dante. They came in herw for dante and they got nero instead. Granted, he shits on donte, and he's not THAT bad, but he's completely out of tune with the nonchalant cutscenes of dante/gloria.
IT WAS MY ASSUMPTION
THAT THESE DEMONS WOULD BE ~FAR~ INFERIOR
IN THE FACE
OF YOUR
TACTICS
>>340572063
Muh pulls
Muh red queen revving
KYRIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Because he wasn't Dante
Because he's way too simple gameplay wise compared to Dante
The whole Kyrie shtick goes overboard later in the game
Don't get me wrong, I liked him but there were some legit reasons. Also his SE costume is great.
>>340572063
>we already have two white haired dudes in this series, why do we need a third?
Sparda's genes nigga
As DMC4 introduced switching dante styles, DMC5, should introduce switching between Dante and Nero.
This would give a better chance for the character to grow.
>>340573038
Honestly, if you just gave Nero 3 more weapons, including Yamato, and Vergil's summoned swords (accessed via the D-Pad and the unused trigger button respectively) he'd be pretty fantastic.
>>340569602
>watching dubbed anime
>>340573341
i guess i'm just a pleb but i like to hear it in my own language. you pick up on tones and implications better
THEY WILL SEE
>>340573519
WE'LL FIGHT UNTIL ETERNITY
>>340573519
NERO CAN DO A DROPKICK!?
>>340573708
hit the taunt button during a sprint
>>340573797
>>340570417
>I like JYB, but he is better-sounding when he is playing someone less hot-headed like Adachi or Lelouch
I like him best as hotheads like Nero or Yukimura. His battle cries are pretty solid.
>>340573280
A couple of new guns would also be nice, firing Blue Rose gets old after a while.
>>340571374
>mfw Nero says FUCK YOU when you DT DB the Angelo captains
>>340576163
It's actually "ROCK YOU" or something.
I seriously hope we have the 'Pick 2 Devil Arms and Guns' system from DMC3 in 5. I hate having to cycle through EVERYTHING to get to the weapon or gun I want to use in my combos.
He's the generic cool future silver the hedgehog/raiden/trunks character that's why
>>340569430
His fighting style is boring and not crazy enough
>>340576163
>yfw Nero's guitar riff in his taunt is from DMC2's mission select theme
>0:17
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAoXJREmvGo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgvFmhP7GMs
>>340576497
>wanting less options to combo with
Faggot
If I could add one thing to DMC5, i'd be character switching on the fly, with Dante and Nero having four styles each.
Nero styles:
>DARK BRINGER
Basically his DMC4 playstyle.
>DARK STRIDER:
His version of Trickster, borrowing heavily from his fathers Dark slayer style, with his own flairs like multi-hit teleports and grapples
>CRIMSON KING:
Nero two-hands his new sword, the Crimson King, that allows him to have super armor on many of his style attacks.
>REVOLVER SAINT
Basically Gunslinger, but with the added bonus of controlling homing bullets for all of his guns. The Revolver charge animation is x3 as fast and changes to twirl the revolver.secret easter egg: when in the character change menu, pressing select causes the two to play a short taunt animation that changes depending on their style
>>340576907
>wanting to combo with useless weapons that aren't even flashy
Yay
>>340577297
>LUCIFER
>NOT FLASHY
I S S H Y G D T
>>340577446
More impractical than anything.
On par with Nevan.
>>340577717
If something is fun to use, then it's fine. All DMC weapons are fun to use except Nevan, and that's mainly because it's hard to use
>>340577297
>any weapon in dmc4 or dmc3
>useless
>not flashy
>>340577902
Where the fuck did I say the weapons in 3 were useless and not flashy?
>>340569430
He wasn't Dante
![maxresdefault[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/4RswNjL.jpg "maxresdefault[1].jpg")
>>340573686
come with me
>>340578318
>that belt clipping
There were people spending hours creating this image and countless people saw it and approved it and NOBODY noticed that eyesore.
>>340570124
>I can't ACT. I tried it for a week and I just gave up.
I get max act like 20% of the time.
It's tough as nails.
ex act is a lot more forgiving though, I manage that like 90% of the time at least.
>>340577717
https://youtu.be/YiXNYUEBoUw
Git gud
>>340578764
>spending any amount of time trying to get better at a useless skill
I bet it makes their panties wet when you show the girls you bring over to your mom's see you sweating up a storm with your sausage fingers flailing all over your controller like that.
>>340577856
>Nevan
>lightning guitar that shoots bats
>not fun
no u
it's hard to use, but goddamn is it stylish as fuck
>>340578949
>calls nevan impractical
>gets called out
>resorts to ad hominem
Fuck off.
>>340573442
Fucking no you dont
>>340578502
to busy looking at titays
>>340578949
>getting triggered by truestyle videos
Shit nigga, how bad are you at these games? I could do about half of that after an hour of practice.
>>340578502
I don't see it
>>340579381
>I could do about half of that after an hour of practice.
Uh huh.
>>340578949
You dont fucking belong here faggot
>>340579456
Look at Trish's thigh.
>>340579520
Not him but with a&g that's easy so yeah about half of that. Nevan is the only challenging bit there
>>340579589
Oh no now he's name calling. I'm shaking at my desk in anger. I'm sorry I ever impeded on your elitist hardcore beat em up game :(
>>340578318
>zoom in to look at them fun bags
>notice they actually put scars on Lady's legs
>a scar from the wound Arkham gave her is there as well
>>340569430
Because he's the co-star of a half assed game.
>>340578318
Lady is objectively best girl and nobody can deny that.
Arm like a fucking monitor lizard.
>>340581951
at least he will never have a cold slice of pizza
>>340581951
had a laff
He got his own campaign despite his simple boring playstyle while all Dante got was scraps not balanced around his abilities despite being incredibly fun to play.
>DMC5 pretty much confirmed
It's the only reason I haven't killed myself yet.
http://wegotthiscovered.com/gaming/devil-may-cry-5-leaked-on-voice-actors-resume/
http://nichegamer.com/2016/06/09/voice-actor-lists-devil-may-cry-5-on-resume/
WAKE THE FUCK UP YOU CUNTS
>>340585959
>Nils Hognestad
>literally who
>never did vidya VA
>a lead character
take this fake shit outta here
>>340569430
KYYYYYYYYYYYYYYRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEI liked him.He feels like a natural evolution from VergilI really don't care about DMC's story because they're all tryhard edgelords anyway except for one main character
>>340569430
People think he's not as deep as DMC3 dante, he represents everything people disliked about DMC4
>Slow
>Limited number of attacks
>Reliance on 'brutality' executions using his devil trigger for proper damage
>Not very technical
>moveset feels rushed and incomplete
I love Nero. He's one of the shining joys I have about DMC4 because I don't like the way Uncle Dante plays at all. Uncle Dante is really only good if you memorize how to complete several frame-perfect tricks in a row which require you to have three thumbs or a special controller.
That said, DMC4SE's Vergil blows them both out of the water. Lady is a close second.
>>340569882
Que te jodan!
>>340570417
>His attitude screams darker Dante. He's more sarcastic and broody than Dante ever was. It also got a little over the top when Kirie was involved.
So he's more like Vegil? Makes sense since that's his dad.
The whole Kyrie thing was overblown by the fandom he only does it twice in the game
>>340569430
Cuz he's black.
>>340587786
>Dante's guns
>having to reload
>>340590340
You're not wrong.
Johnny Yong Bosch is coming to a con that I'm heading to. Anyone want me to ask any (safe) questions?
>>340590909
Ask him when the release date to DMC5 is.
>>340591521
He'll probably either avoid it entirely or throw the NDA out there.
>>340590909
Ask him if he knows what the fuck any of the character's last names are.
>>340591610
Ask him what he'd like the release date to DMC5 be
>>340591631
This one is good.
>>340591654
This is a much better alternative
>>340569430
>Why did people hate him?
1 (ONE) BUTTON IS *LITERALLY* UNUSED
This is a war criminal-tier waste of controller space.
Also he has only one weapon which is again crime against common sense because he has Yamato but it only activates during DT.
Otherwise he's an kinda alright.
>>340590909
Ask him when is the Trigun CUHRAZEY game is coming out
>>340590909
Ask him how it feels to have done such a shitty job he killed DMC.
>>340592032
He didn't work on the reboot
>>340591910
Ok.
>>340592032
You sound salty faggot.
>>340590909
Ask him where we can play his new Pachinko game.
SLAM DUNK
>>340585959
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtN_kBiF8B0
>>340592359
He has a new pachinko game?
>>340592504THIS is what the mocap and VA was for.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt4DIs4vXEw
>>340592580
Fuck, that's just as bad as the new MGS one. But they're in the business of making money and pachinkos make a lot of it. Still though.
>>340592580
Nobody ever actually said that's what the mocap was for, people just assumed it.
>>340577179
Jesus christ, do we really need to bloat these games even farther with more stance-switching shit?
>>340592963
>WHAAAA TOO MUCH CONTENT, TOO MANY TOOLS WHAAAAA GO BACK TO OLD DMC WHERE YOU WERE SLOW CLUNKY AND BARELY HAD ANY SUBSTANCE!!!!
This is what you sound like anon.
I want to buy the DMC4 SE on G2A but what is this thing about region lock?
https://www g2a com/devil-may-cry-4-special-edition-steam-cd-key-global.html
Can I just buy any of those key offer and activate it on steam? Why is there a country flag?
>>340592790
>But they're in the business of making money and pachinkos make a lot of it
The problem is that it's not sustainable. These mega-million dollar companies are dismantling themselves for a Japanese flash-in-the-pan trend that will come and go as quickly as leather pants or the skip-it.
And what's worse: they can't even sell the things outside of a few places in Japan because they're regulated the same way as video poker due to the nature of buying and selling balls.
It's what really has so many people mad: These international companies are tying their own noose with things that isn't for them, can't ever be sold to them, and will eventually result in them crawling back when it all goes pop.
>>340593158
Reading your post makes me feel like I have just learned Japanese Business 101.
>>340593067
>I want fifty different forms of combat gated behind a bunch of obtuse controls so that I can pretend I'm hardcore.
I guess they should add the ability to switch games on the fly so I can fight enemies from 5 different games with 20 different weapons at the same time, because obtuse as fuck complexity is always better.
>>340569430
KYRIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEhe wasn't bad when he was away from her, but he stole the spotlight from Dante and I don't think he was a necessary addition to the series. He is also kind of boring to play as compared to the others.
>>340593264
I know you're being a sarcastic little twat but honestly, if you can't grasp 4 to 5 different play styles between characters, some you don't even NEED to use, maybe this is the wrong genre for you. Perhaps you should play something a bit more simple.
>>340593481
>Genre
I think you mean a single game.
DMC4 is the only game that shoves a plethora of common action-game moves behind D-Pad commands you dunce.
>>340593619
>I think you mean a single game.
Yes I don't know why said genre, I realized after I posted.
Come the fuck on guys. Nero needs more weapons and playstyles. But if they bailed out and totally copy Dante's or Vergil's style, it would be very boring.
>>340593264
>obtuse controls
git gud you fucking pleb
>>340593234
I'm honestly just baffled that these companies are falling for it. The same thing happened with arcade cabinets in the late 90's.
Japanese arcades are still doing great, but if you ever been to one: You'll notice most of the games are from the 90's and early 00's. That's because the cabinets consume physical space, so the parlors are only obliged to keep the best of the best, the most popular of the popular.
I'm genuinely shocked that Konami and Capcom, two companies that lost their arcade cabinet division within the last fifteen years, is turning back to the equivalent of arcade cabinets.
>>340578949
Nevan is a fantastic weapon and to get a lot out of it literally all you need to know how to do is forward + attack and how to do that huge AOE mashing combo.
This is literally it and it will carry you all throughout DMD as a fantastic support weapon to whatever you do actually want to use.I use it over Beowulf because I don't like the claw feet and it makes those Archers completely trivialized due to Nevan working kind of like a shield. 11/10 support weapon
>>340592963
the problem is not that they have stance- mode-switching, it's that they went way overboard with it
By iteratively adding more and more and more to the same old ship that they are too afraid to change, they arrived to 4 modes each of them stackable and combineable on top of each other:
-- trigger: two states
-- melee weapons: three states (2 in DMC3)
-- gun weapons: three states (2 in DMC3)
-- style: five states
Controller space is DOMINATED by buttons that switch between modes instead of actions themselves, thus significant portion of time you have to switch to mode and THEN do the action
Constant need to switch is also determined by relatively short attack strings because you can't reach too much diversity of action by simply repeating pressing melee button
>>340593895
But there's zero reason to. You can sit in a single style all game and do fine, even getting SSS.
These people that autism their way through the controls and act like they accomplished something because they learned a few frame-cancels and jump cancelling are delusional, thinking that shit actually adds to the gameplay somehow.
>>340573686
where the hell do you even get this webm from?
>>340594967
You're an idiot if you think that it doesn't. IF anything it sounds like you're just a stubborn cunt who refuses to actually give the game a chance, if you think it's pointless go to /lit/ and waste your time there.
>>340593695
BROTHER NERO
>>340594967
That's like playing a driving game where you can win by holding down the gas and making no turns just drive in a straight line. OR you can take that mountain road that has bends and turns that allows you to get the maximum enjoyment out of a driving game.
Why? Why just drive down a straight road and have no fun? I think you're the autistic person here friend.
>>340594967
Where do you draw the line on what is useful and what is not?
Pretty much every mechanic that a player can use is useful and I am having issues trying to think of something that isn't helpful.
>>340595269
>Why? Why just drive down a straight road and have no fun?
>Why? Why just hold down square to shoot and have no fun?
I ask the same thing to the people that bash DMC2.
>>340569430
People hated him? I guess it must've been Raiden syndrome.
No, but seriously though his gameplay is fun but it's not as deep as Dante's.
The fact that he exists also divides the game in a really weird way to where you play 3/5 of the game as Nero and the rest as Dante, but you switch somewhere in the middle and then go back at the end. It's really fucking retarded.
>>340595459
What did they say?
>>340595459
DMC2 is a shit game anon get over it.
>>340595525
That the gameplay is shit; you can just shoot everything to death without using your sword once.
But the faggots that do this will NEVER experience this amount of fun:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuBBXknA_-E
Did they ever explain the reson for his stand?
>>340576497
It'd work better if Capcom did a system where you could switch between two sets of two devil arms and two firearms I don't know uh by press R3 and L3 to switch between the two sets that way it's easier to swap between weapons and give more options (especially if Dante got access to the style moves from 3 and 4 along with new ones). The problem is Dante doesn't have a lot of room on a controller going by DMC4s configuration for an example.
>>340595675
donk mem frend
>>340583954
>It's DmC2:dMc
>>340595717
>Have to trudge through a boring game just to fight apretty fun boss
Unfortunately it's just not worth the hassle.
>>340595810
>the truth is a meme
I want to suck his dick, I dont know why I love his design so much
>>340595861
>the truth = opinion
>>340596017
You DMC2 apologists are insane if you think it's remotely servicable.
>>340569430
Bait and switch with classic protag who has none of the depth gameplay wise.
I like Nero personally, but I can see why others wouldn't.
>>340595845
>Unfortunately it's just not worth the hassle.
I wonder what other parts of your life you apply that to.
I liked him, the air game he had with his sword stuff was simple and fun, and grabbing, table hopping and getting those exceeds made him interesting.
Imo
DMC3 dante > nero > virgil> dmc4 dante
dmc4 dante just felt like "LETS ADD EVERYTHING AND EXPLAIN NOTHING!" while dmc3 dante was the perfect creation of avatar growth in an action game.
>>340593619
You can do everything you need to do without ever switching styles. Styles are only a way to add to your basic moveset. That's why DMC3 and 4 have the biggest amount of moves in any stylish action game ever.
>>340573002
We've got Vergil's son, now Dante needs to have a daughter.
>>340596127
And you're a hopeless sack of boring parroting shit if you think it's "one of the worst games ever".
>>340596154
Not a lot.
I wouldn't apply it to DMC2 but Stinger and fighting in general just feels very lackluster.
DMC2 makes me miss the weight of DMC1's attacks.
Helicopter boss is also THAT LEVEL to me.
>>340595139
>You're an idiot if you think that it doesn't.
Feel free to explain why stance switching matters when I beat the game twice before learning how to do it.
Oh wait, it doesn't.
>>340595269
>Why? Why just drive down a straight road and have no fun? I think you're the autistic person here friend.
I said why right in the post, because the game itself doesn't benefit from it. You're doing the same shit either way, beating the shit out of a stun-locked enemy and pretending you're hot shit because you're doing the same thing any other player is doing without stance-switch is retarded.
The game simply doesn't reward that kind of playstyle.
>>340595375
>Where do you draw the line on what is useful and what is not?
I'm talking about what the game requires from the player.
As it stands the stance-changing mechanic was horribly implemented and mastering it barely increases your ability to do well in the game.
>>340596412
>virgil
Which one, 3 or 4? Where is the other one?
>>340592580
HIT THE LEVER
I swear if this was what the mo-cap was for I will hate Capcom to deathas if that means something and I didn't already do that with DmC.
>>340596412
3 would be after dmc4 dante because his movelist is way too barebones. 4s is perfect..
>>340596595
>Feel free to explain why stance switching matters when I beat the game twice before learning how to do it.
Because if you actually played the game past human you'd understand that it actively punishes you for not using the correct style for the situation, hell, I doubt you actually didn't know about the mechanic and just stayed in one style out of the desire to be stubborn.
>>340596543
So you can't actually defend the game?
>>340596887
DMC4 Dante removes a lot of moves from DMC3 though.
>>340597159
I meant to reply to this guy about virgil
>>340596624
>>340597128
Can you tell me why it's a shit game?
>>340595717
i don't know if i should be sad or impressed that someone took the time to get good at DMC2
>>340597480
You should feel bad that you don't have the ability to find fun in """"bad"""" games.
>>340597269
How about the lack of an interesting plot, the lack of weight behind the weapons, the poor bosses and no atmosphere, maybe the lack of Dante being interesting or there being any compelling characters.
>>340597042
>Because if you actually played the game past human you'd understand that it actively punishes you for not using the correct style for the situation
No it doesn't. You never need to Royal Guard in DMC4, ever. I sat in Trickster and rolled everything passed DMD.
>I doubt you actually didn't know about the mechanic and just stayed in one style out of the desire to be stubborn.
I knew about it, more accurately I just didn't learn to use it on the fly because there was no reason to.
Once I actually started getting good at switching stances on the fly I realized that I wasn't actually doing much better than I was before with just jump-cancel chain stunning everything to death.
>>340573341
Apparently burgers have trouble reading. When you struggle to read and comprehend less than two lines of text a second, well, I dunno.
Maybe... kys?
>>340596595
>the stance-changing mechanic was horribly implemented and mastering it barely increases your ability to do well in the game.
I feel that Dante needed to make use of at least two styles at a time to do well.
Like those guys with the shadow cloak and claws?
Gunslinger and Trickster to deal with the shadow cloak, then Swordmaster/Dark Slayer for dealing damage unless we're doing Distortions
I also felt that stance swapping was really to make up for how badLuciferis.
I didn't like the other weapon so much either but it hurt a lot.
>>340598009
Even if you were telling the truth you come across as a very boring person who's incapable of actually enjoying experiencing new things because you'd rather do the quickest way to get through something, which isn't what DMC asks for at all.
>>340597856
>why doesn't my B-movie beat em up have a good story
The weapons have the same weight to them as DMC1. You can still feel the hits you're dealing to your enemies,unlike DMC3.
>poor bosses
What makes the enemies "poor", in your opinion?
>no atmosphere
Explain.
>Dante not being interesting
His character was already established in the last game. We already know how badass he is, and so does he. He doesn't say much in the game, but when he does, it's great.
>no compelling characters
Granted there are only 4 characters in the game (not counting a couple bosses). But I thoughtchocolate waifu Luciawas fine. I'm not even sure she was even meant to be a real interesting character. If I remember correctly, CAPCOM only refers to her as "THE INCREDIBLY SEXY LUCIA" on the boxart. So she was probably just eye-candy. Arius is your average cheesy B-movie villain, nothing incredibly special about him, but his mannerisms and design and the way he just chills and sends demons to fight you in his boss fight makes him a memorable character to me. Matier I agree has no character. Typical wise mother mentor figure to lead Dante and Lucia in the right direction.
>>340578502
Capcom has a habit of not caring much about clipping for some reason.
>>340598108
>Gunslinger and Trickster to deal with the shadow cloak, then Swordmaster/Dark Slayer for dealing damage unless we're doing Distortions
This is really the only time I remember actively changing out of trickster though. That and maybe the Blitz enemies.
>>340598193
It's like you can't read.
I said, in so many words, multiple times, clear as day, that the game gates movesets behind D-pad inputs for virtually no reason, and it's obtuse and shitty for how much effort it takes to master, when you simply don't need to do it to do well in the game.
It's so fucking bad that no one else in the very game it's in even has it, or anything like it, and it will likely be removed entirely if they ever do a real sequel.
Gating shit behind the D-pad is simply not needed. See: Every other action game and every other character in DMC4. So gating more shit behind more commands is fucking retarded.
Period.
>>340598736
So you're not using the other styles because you're too lazy to hit the dpad? Also don't even act like you're given near as many options with any of the other characters in 4 as you are with Dante, it's not true at all.
Are there any other action games that have half-way realistic animations like DMC games? Most games take easing too far where you'll have like 20 frames of startup, 2 active frames, and 15 frames of cooldown. That or every attack is only slightly slower than million stab.
>>340598871
I'm now under the assumption that you just straight up can't comprehend what you're reading.
>>340599112
No, you're bitching about movesets being "gated for no reason" because you can't comprehend the idea that you're given too many options per style to where if you threw all 5 of the on at once, it would be an even bigger clusterfuck of a design. I don't understand how you can fail to see that.
>>340599670
Have you played a single other action game? Bayonetta for instance? She has access to all of Dante's moves at all times, save a few random Swordmaster and Gunslinger moves.
The skill requirement for mastering the shitty D-Pad mechanic is too high for how poorly it was shoved into the game.
Now's the part where you say every other action game is shit because you said so, so DMC4 shouldn't take a cue from them.
>>340598580
whatever cuck
>>340599961
No she doesn't. In the best case where she does, it's often stuck behind an extended combo - The ability to instantly switch styles means that you have direct access to a new move on the fly, IE you have the freedom to chain them together as you wish rather than having to go through an entire attack string to find the one move with the property you want.
>>340599961
DMC4 is incapable of changing because the fact that Bayonetta came AFTER the game was released so I don't even see how that's relevant to the conversation, and no, Bayonetta does not have access to Dante's moveset, hell, Bayonetta is a fundamentally different experience than DMC4
>>340598934
Bayonetta.
>>340600307
>>340600341
All of Trickster and the vast majority of Royal Guard are in Bayonetta's basic moveset.
>>340600518
>Trickster
You mean she can dodge, just like Dante can dodge without Trickster.
>Royal Guard
Bayonetta can't block though?
>>340590909
Ask him what it's like to be such a popular voice actor but have literally no range.
>>340601493
I haven't even played Bayonetta and I know there's blocking/parrying.
>>340601804
It's not part of her standard moveset, she requires an accessory to do so or if you have the WiiU version the Link costume.
>>340600518
>>340601804
Umbran Spear and dodge is not equatable to Trickster. And Moon of Mahaa-Kalaa not only doesn't have half of RG's functionality, it's also an accessory and not a "basic move".
The control layout in Bayonetta is also lacking a lot compared to DMC. I mean binding an entire button to dodging (Was it two in 1?) with no other functionality besides beasting is a bit of a waste, especially when they had an alternative input in the first game that may as well have rendered it pointless.
And the D-Pad? Who the fuck uses items in the first place? That's four worthless buttons.
Bayonetta 1 and 2 HD for PS4 when
>>340602931
>I mean binding an entire button to dodging (Was it two in 1?) with no other functionality besides beasting is a bit of a waste
You literally just admitted that it has TWO uses.
And besides that:
-- there are two distinct tiers of dodging -- regular and Bat/Moth Within
-- dodge offset
Game is literally designed around dodging and weaving dodge inputs in between action commands hence it's a crucial function more than worth dedicating an entire button to.
> especially when they had an alternative input in the first game that may as well have rendered it pointless.
Alternative input was only there for DMC-guys who are still clutching lock-on. Compare lock-on+directional tilt+jump with just tilt+dodge or just dodge for default back dodge.
Bayo is designed so you don't have clutch lock-on constantly because if you have to keep pressing it nearly constantly -- then whats the point then?
> Moon of Mahaa-Kalaa
is still more than than just one function because it incorporates regular blocking AND counter/parrying on frame perfect tilt.
But yeah direct comparison between Bayo and DMC are kinda silly since combat philosophies are very different
>>340603924
whatever cuck
>>340603924
It's hard to call Beast Within very useful. Panther is mostly used to run through the levels and Crow is mostly good for platforming, though it does have a measure of combat application. Bat is just a facet of the dodge. So it's more like it has one and a third uses or something.
>-- there are two distinct tiers of dodging -- regular and Bat/Moth Within
Ultimately the two types aren't that "distinct" other than how some enemies and bosses will only be affected by a bat dodge instead of a normal one, but the end result is still the same.
>Game is literally designed around dodging and weaving dodge inputs in between action commands hence it's a crucial function more than worth dedicating an entire button to.
But it's just not necessary, you don't need to dedicate an entire button to it when lockon->Jump->left stick already works perfectly and isn't cumbersome in the least.
>Alternative input was only there for DMC-guys who are still clutching lock-on.
It was actually there because Beast Within's input meant that you could often pop into panther or crow when you simply meant to dodge.
>Bayo is designed so you don't have clutch lock-on constantly because if you have to keep pressing it nearly constantly -- then whats the point then?
Very obviously, to give you access to more moves like Stiletto, Heel Slide, or a launcher.
>is still more than than just one function because it incorporates regular blocking AND counter/parrying on frame perfect tilt.
Yes, but it still doesn't have as much functionality as RG, which is only possible because style switching changes the entire state of what the button does rather than having it be a single move.
It also doesn't help that most of Bayonetta's moves on the ground and in the air are identical.
>>340569430
Because KYYYRIIEEEEE!!!
>>340606749
whatever cuck
>>340596463
I ship Dante and Bayonetta.
>>340573708
fun tip
every cool move you see nero do in cutscenes, you can do it in the game
>>340605752
>It's hard to call Beast Within very useful
Crow Within is sort of a mode by itself because summoned swords are tied to it.
> isn't cumbersome in the least.
after 10 years of playing DMC -- sure.
lock-on+direction+jump kinda works in DMC because of how rare you actually need to use roll dodges.
It is exactly because rolls is so cumbersome to execute neutral (double) jump has become the standard dodge move instead.
And further on this inadequacy in DMC's basic movement option further facilitated creating a entire style dedicated to dodging because vanilla was not enough for more faster and simpler dodging -- because jump is consciously limited during certain attack animations
The mere existance of trickster style and how all player just use empty jump for i-frames is a proof that lock-on+direction+jump is not cutting it. It is extremely rare that you actually NEED to roll.
Bayo's dodge is more akin to Ninja Gaiden's dodge -- it's instant and can be inputted at any time without limitation put on by your current attack animation and you can do it the air (while you obviously can't do it with rolls).
Bayo's dodge is inputted CONSTANTLY -- before attack, after attack and even DURING attack (thanks to offset).
There is no point to use archaic and inadequate shortcut for such an important and constantly used function.
>Very obviously, to give you access to more moves like Stiletto, Heel Slide, or a launcher.
But that's wrong. All these moves have lock-on less alternatives.
Yes, even launcher (paused punch at the tail end of every attack string works as launcher).
DMC muddles lock-on function creating confusion that it is supposed to be more than LOCK-ON -- a mode to concentrate attacks on one particular enemy.
It also uses lock-on as a modifier (like Ctrl- or Alt- buttons on keyboard) to widen moveset which confuses player who only play DMC into thinking lock-on is supposed to have more functionality than what it was originally designed.
>>340607429
You can't ride enemies with Red Queen like he does in the beginning of Chapter 2.
>>340597856
Also ebony and ivory are on a set fire rate and it doesn't matter how fast you mash
>>340607429
> implying Nero can ride enemies
Did you even play these games?
>>340607876
cont.
Removing unnecessary barnacles that lock-on has collected over the years in DMC series was a conscious design goal by Kamiya who looked at games who have no dedicated lock-on like God Hand and NInja Gaiden (they do lock-on mechanic but it's fully automatic)
His solution was on several levels:
-- provide DMC-style roll shortcut for dodge, for old school stalwarts
-- use Ninja Gaiden style auto lock-on with switching targets on stick tilt (instead of using a dedicated button for it like in DMC, speaking of wasting buttons)
-- use alternative lock-on by shooting guns -- if you shoot guns -- game considers it a form of lock-on. Because of the way game is designed around shooting guns constantly lock-on stays on simply because you keep pressing punch and kick buttons to offset them and without any need to actually clutch lock-on button.
-- design moveset with both lock-on and lock-on less variants. The only move that outright requires lock-on is melee Tetsuzanko/Heel Stomp for distant targets.
>>340607950
>>340608609
but he can ride enemies, there's a combo for it i remember doing it too
>>340609160
Nope. You're thinking of DMC3.
>>340605752
consider this dodge offsetted attack string:
P - P (attack incoming -- need to dodge) - Dodge (last P button is still held) - P and so on
If you had to do it without dedicated dodge button you would have to hold one face button while also pressing another face button to input roll/dodge shortcut.
This is exactly the kind of finger tangling bullshit Kamiya was trying to avoid.
>>340607876
Yes, but that is far and away it's main use. Beyond that, the button is underutilized.
>after 10 years of playing DMC -- sure.
I wouldn't say that, it's intuitive even if you're picking it up for the first time.
>It is exactly because rolls is so cumbersome to execute neutral (double) jump has become the standard dodge move instead.
The rolls are weak not because of how you execute them, but because of how they come out - They're short, slow, and have a delay at both ends. Bayo's dodge doesn't have such issues.
>And further on this inadequacy in DMC's basic movement option further facilitated creating a entire style dedicated to dodging
But Trickster isn't dedicated to dodging, it's dedicated to movement. Things like the dash have I-frames and so can act as a dodge, but overall the style is intended for mobility - This is why the teleport doesn't move you away from an enemy, but instead right in front of them.
>Yes, even launcher (paused punch at the tail end of every attack string works as launcher).
But that's flawed. It's better to always have it available for instant use rather than having to input another animation first.
>It also uses lock-on as a modifier (like Ctrl- or Alt- buttons on keyboard) to widen moveset which confuses player who only play DMC into thinking lock-on is supposed to have more functionality than what it was originally designed.
That makes no sense. How is using it as an additional variable to augment your moves confusing rather than beneficial? It's simply widening everything the player can do in a given instant.
>>340608609
That sounds an awful lot like DmC's design justification for not having lock on - And just like in that game, not utilizing lock on in Bayonetta results in more imprecise gameplay.
If your intent is to have the combat system as tight as possible, it makes sense to give locking on added functionality to augment gameplay, rather than having redundancy with moves that can be input in two different ways but come to the same result.
>>340569430
not enough movesets
>>340569430
he's just try hard and more whiny
>>340571374
>dat fucking webm
Literally raiden of devil may cry
>>340573038
>DMC5, should introduce switching between Dante and Nero
suddenly i remembered Genji: Days of the Blade
>>340573002
We Metal Gear Now
>>340583954
MGSV all over again
>>340585959
>This has been totally debunked, by the way. Not only was the resume from 2013, somebody e-mailed the actor and asked him about it. He said it was for a role he couldn't make due to scheduling, seems very likely he was just cast as Donte in DmC then didn't have time to actually do it.
>>340569430
I would have liked him more if after you played as Dante they gave him 2 more weapons of each type or something. It was really disappointing to play the kid-mode character then swap to the best Dante ever then back to kid mode again.
The exceed system was pretty fun, but he's just shallow, in nearly every way.
I really do hope in DMC5 that they allow him Dante and Virgil to all be playable characters, but with all of them having a shitload of styles and abilities.
>>340597747
nigga, I never said it was bad. I just don't have the energy to play through the tedium to get to the good stuff aka DMD. Especially, when there's DMC 1,3 and 4 that are way more fun from the get go.
>>340609987
except target switching is flexible in Bayonetta -- tilt left, tilt right -- switching is two-way, instead of uni-directional like in DMC.
>>340609597
you're ignoring my point about dodge offsetting turning into finger tangling mess if you don't put dodge on dedicated button
Kamiya intended to marry Ninja Gaiden and DMC and that's why he made a compromise with allowing shortcuts from DMC for old-school
If he didn't -- this argument would have even happened, could even probably because you wouldn't have given his game a chance
But he did -- to build bridges
> How is using it as an additional variable to augment your moves confusing rather than beneficial?
It is beneficial within DMC combat which as time went on convinced itself that clutching lock-on nearly constantly is a way to go, even if it ultimately makes that button redundant.
Are you aware of information theory, my friend? There, if one part of a signal is constantly giving the same value (lock-on=pressed) it becomes redundant signal that is not worth transmitting.
Same way how if you create a text file with million "A" in it and then zip it, it packs into minscule file that basically says: "repeat A million times".
Ideally to use opened channel (here we think of controller/human interface as data channel) each distinct pieces of information should be equally redistributed on a tree of possible states with each "weight" of state on each level ideally reaching 50/50 (if it's a binary signal)
For lock-on "weight" values is skewed very far from ideal 50/50 because majority of moveset requires it being held.
>>340608609
Dedicated evade button is alright for Plat games, but in DMC there's so much more defensive options than wasting a dedicated button to one move.
You can Royal Guard, Royal Release, Trickster through, Trickster-RG cancel trough, Guard fly, use i-frame properties of various moves (such as Gilgamesh back triangle and Darkslayer backdash judgement cut) all the way to the most casual one which is jump/roll away.
Lock ons create axis in which you're allowed to execute and string "command" moves like Stinger, Streak, Roulette, and Calibur. This yields an interesting use of such command moves combination because you can pull them out near instantaneously.
In Bayo (and to be fair a lot of moves added in DMC4SE, especially Trish's) a lot of moves are locked behind combo string, which makes the gameplay kind of stale. For example, Bayonetta's stomp to crumple enemies is locked behind the third move of square triangle triangle, same deal with Trish's spinning bird kick.
Because she's a whore version of best girl.
>>340569430
We must go to the place of our genesis.
>>340611459
>clutching lock-on nearly constantly is a way to go
But it's not. It's not fucking Dark Souls, you're not supposed to clutch lock on constantly. Due to slow combat of Dark Souls, you have the leisure to press R3 button to switch target. In DMC release and re-lock on is the way to go when you're fighting multiple enemies
>>340611606
>Bayonetta's stomp to crumple enemies is locked behind the third move of square triangle triangle
it is literally Heel Stomp -- back forward kick (optional lock-on if enemy if too far away)
There is only ONE move that is hidden deep inside long attack string:
leg sweeps inside PPPKKK string
All other moves can be done by DMC-style shortcut action commands
>donte happened
>it's trying to be dmc3 dante
>nero was created to fill that role already
>therefore we got a reboot of a character with a 2 title difference that already had the role refilled
WHAT WAS THE FUCKING POINT?
>>340611459
Thing is, target switching in DMC is also a non-issue. In fact it's tighter and more reliable to manually switch than to rely on autotracking to do it for you.
>you're ignoring my point about dodge offsetting turning into finger tangling mess if you don't put dodge on dedicated button
It doesn't matter what the player has to do, as long as the results they can achieve are as precise as possible. That's when it comes down to player skill - Bayonetta has a more simplified and comfortable control scheme suited for it's mechanics, but as a tradeoff it sacrifices precision and the upper tiers of player freedom.
>It is beneficial within DMC combat which as time went on convinced itself that clutching lock-on nearly constantly is a way to go, even if it ultimately makes that button redundant.
The button isn't redundant. In fact there are certain things you can ONLY do if you let go of the lockon, even if it's beneficial to hold it in the vast majority of cases, there's still benefit in it's existence because your gameplay can be altered by whether or not it's being held.
>>340612254
So why the redundancy? Why not just have those moves be for the lock on and have other, new moves in the strings?
>>340612753
>In fact there are certain things you can ONLY do if you let go of the lockon, even if it's beneficial to hold it in the vast majority of cases,
Exactly.
"Certain" rare things.
Ideally pressing/not pressing modifier button should divide your moveset squarely in half
But in DMC you need
> to hold it in the vast majority of cases
Because DMC series has muddled the waters and made moveset modifer and lock-on one and the same
BROTHER NERO
>>340612913
> Why not just have those moves be for the lock on and have other, new moves in the strings
You are confused. Again you keep thinking that lock-on is necessary for action command shortcuts because that's how DMC trained you over the years.
Heel Stomp action command doesn't require lock-on unless it's for specific distant targets.
If Bayo locked some moves in deep attack strings then you yourself would complain about it:
>>340611606
> in Bayo (and to be fair a lot of moves added in DMC4SE, especially Trish's) a lot of moves are locked behind combo string, which makes the gameplay kind of stale
What you perceive as redundancy is just flexibility and options.
>>340612753
>In fact it's tighter and more reliable to manually switch
but target switching in DMC is strictly unidirectional making slower than bi-direction target switching in Bayo.
>>340613019
What? It should obviously not divide your moveset in half, because then half your moves are left without the precision of lockon.
>>340613650
Lockon just happens to be the most expedient and precise way to enable the input of moves, especially ones requiring directional inputs, and once you include that in your design the available range of options skyrockets, whereas otherwise you're too limited.
>but target switching in DMC is strictly unidirectional making slower than bi-direction target switching in Bayo.
It's not slower if you're good, and it will always be more exact.
>>340614582
>What? It should obviously not divide your moveset in half, because then half your moves are left without the precision of lockon.
Again. You not listening.
That is because lock-on is ALSO used a modifer.
Ideally modifier should split your moveset evenly to be efficient and for your tree of inputs to look symmetrical and even.
But because moveset modifier is coupled to lock-on it leads to slanted tree of states creating inefficient control layout.
> Lockon just happens to be the most expedient
It just happens to be the most expedient
In DMC games.
Are you aware of games without manual lock-on? God Hand? Ninja Gaiden?
Platinum is slowly moving away from dedicated lock-on button. This started with Bayonetta, only it went half way in and still retained some bridges for old school DMC people.
>>340614582
>It's not slower if you're good, and it will always be more exact.
Sorry, but you're literally wrong.
Consider you have five enemies: A, B, C, D.
You press lock-on and it picked enemy C. But you want enemy B. You press switch target input but according to some internal order it switches you to D. So now you press it again and it switches you to A. You press it again and finally it has now switched to B.
In Bayonetta, you can can switch targets in 2 directions -- left and right and can see exactly to which enemy it will switch to simply based on their location relatively to you.
>>340576832
I don't know what to make of it. It kind of sounds the same, but then again not really.
Is this true, did they really reuse the melody for DMC4 Nero's taunt?
I don't see why Nero being simple is a bad thing. It'd be bad if Dante didn't exist, but he does. If you don't like Nero's simplicity, just play as Uncle Dante.
Though admittedly, it's rather lame that you can only play half the game with each.
>>340614960
The thing is lockon at least triples your possible moves all available simultaneously (In addition to styles, guns and weapons obviously). There's practically no other way to do such a thing. It doesn't matter that the inputs don't "look symmetrical".
>Are you aware of games without manual lock-on? God Hand? Ninja Gaiden?
Both games are still constrained by either having you manually change the functions of your buttons and what attacks come out when you press them, or have your moves be set depending on string - "The xxx and the yyy", if you know what I mean.
DMC's system is the only one that allows you every possible option nearly instantaneously.
>>340615316
It's set from most center of the screen, to nearest, to farthest, and the switching occurs instantaneously. If enemies are equidistant (Or off screen, say behind) you can manually select a new target just by turning. It's not some kind of slow process.
Moreover, DMC's combat is much more suited to NOT switching targets, and instead focusing on a single one. More advanced players can switch, but why even do it?
>>340616973
>Both games are still constrained by either having you manually change the functions of your buttons and what attacks come out when you press them, or have your moves be set depending on string - "The xxx and the yyy", if you know what I mean.
These constraints are nothing more than systems to redistribute as many options on limited controller space.
>DMC's system is the only one that allows you every possible option nearly instantaneously.
> nearly
Except you need to make sure several modes >>340594641
> -- trigger: two states
> -- melee weapons: three states (2 in DMC3)
> -- gun weapons: three states (2 in DMC3)
> -- style: five states
are set to states that allows tihs particular attack to be executed.
You can't do aerial rave right away, you need to switch sword master and only then are you allowed to do this move.
While Bayo still has full moveset of currently selected weapon (except leg sweeps >>340612254) on action commands that doesn't depend on any artificial mode or current step in attack string.
That's exactly why moves are set to both shortctus and placed inside attack string.
If you're going to praise DMC4 for allowing "nearly" full moveset, then you should praise Bayo even more by your own criteria.
>>340618072
Dante has a greater variety of moves at once though.
There's some major autism going on in here.
>DMC controls were great. Deal with it.
>>340618072
Having the option to use anything and everything at any time is preferable to only being able to use a certain set of things. Why do you think the Style Switcher mod in DMC3 gets so much praise?
>>340570565
Did you? He was quiet, but not anything like KYRIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>340618467
>at once
If by "at once" you meant "without any switching" then no.
Within one weapon, Bayo still has access to it's full moveset through shortcuts.
Dante can only press one melee button and then he to output different action he needs to switch or go deeper into his melee attack string (a practice which you condemn in NG/Bayo despite it a thing in DMC as well).
>>340590063
Reminds me of the in inuyasha kagome skits from AS
>>340577179
How about instead of styles, you just give the poor kid more moves?
Like Bayonetta. Moves and combos on everything. Huge amounts of inputs and chains.
>>340618072
And DMC's system also plays into controller space, except it's faster and offers the player the most freedom.
>Except you need to make sure several modes are set to states that allows tihs particular attack to be executed.
And that is where player skill enters the fray. A bad player may be confused and have to cycle through weapons multiple times or choose the wrong style, but once they learn how it works such issues go away.
Once someone fully takes advantage of how the system works, switching becomes utterly instantaneous and the full depth of the combat is laid bare for the player to do with as they wish.
>>340618808
Nero's supposed to be simpler and easier to use than Dante. Why do you guys want to make him more complicated? You're basically taking away his reason for existence.
>>340618628
>Having the option to use anything and everything at any time is preferable to only being able to use a certain set of things
If you truly believe in this notion then you should agree that style-switching severely restricting moveset is not a good thing even besides it's awful ergonomics.
>>340618884
Is that why everyone loves it so much?
>>340593234
>>340593920
Went a little too far with the compliment
>>340618696
>replying to a 10 hour old post
>>340618884
But style switching doesn't restrict you, it offers vastly more options at once than could exist otherwise.
>>340618828
>except it's faster and offers the player the most freedom.
You need one additional input to switch style before you actually can enter command?
It's not faster at all.
Significant percentage of your inputs is just you setting some artificial modes -- these inputs do nothing except set some arbitrary value inside the engine, actual action can only happen after you made sure states are set. This is a huge overhead.
Imagine that alphabet is divided into four parts and before entering each letter you first have to enter number of the part this letter belongs to.
What's worse -- is that division is not even and some parts have only 1-2 letters in them (dark slayer).
This is a huge waste of time and space.
>>340569674
dante isn't anime tough guy. he's basically a ninja turtle character in a world filled with edgy demons. the entire point of the character was juxtaposition to the more edgy world he was placed in(this goes for DMC1 too, even if it became much clearer after 3. the only exception could be dmc2). I hate when little faggots like you call characters edgy or rough because they're too fucking dense to analyze a character and shouldn't speak on these topics at all. Or because they're assholes that never played the games and judged purely on marketing
>>340618870
Not more complicated. Just give him more in general to do.
Again, like Bayonetta. You don't need to use 30 different combos in a row, but you can.
>>340619070
> a system that divides character moveset into four parts
> doesn't restrict you
>>340619173
Yet, can Bayonetta use multiple combos with multiple sets of weapons with multiple movement-categories that would, ordinarily, take more than the number of buttons that a DS controller would allow, in a single mission without having to switch between them through a menu screen?
This is what we love about Dante in DMC4. The ability to do all those things at any time without menus. Dante can cut things, shoot things, cut things more, shoot things more, dash, guard and counter, use three different melee weapons and three different ranged weapons, at any time with the press of a button. No menus. No switching things between missions. Few other games give you so many options in a single mission.
>>340619173
It's faster if the PLAYER is faster. The Devil May Cry system means that the player is never left waiting on animations, they don't need to go through any additional steps with the game itself. As fast as they can press the buttons, that's as fast as style, guns, and weapons switch. There's zero downtime for a good player.
>>340619345
>a system that gives a single button 20+ moves on demand
>not the least restrictive thing possible in a physical universe
>>340619287
Nero was designed to be an alternative to Dante. He only has one style, one melee weapon, one ranged weapon, and a special tool that's versatile, yet context-sensitive. Dante's the one with all the styles and weapons, whereas Nero's the one who doesn't need nearly as much mastery. That's what they're supposed to be.
If you give Nero four Styles or multiple weapons, it takes away from his simplicity and straightforwardness. It eliminates the point to his character. Why bother even having Nero then? You may as well just give Dante a dozen styles and weapons and allow him to pick and choose which four Styles and which sets of weapons you want to use in-between stages. The added customization would be preferable to making Nero just another Dante.
>>340589654
>Makes sense since that's his dad.
>since that's his dad.
>his dad.
>dad.
WHY DIDN'T I KNOW THIS
>>340619480
>Dante can cut things, shoot things, cut things more, shoot things more, dash, guard and counter, use three different melee weapons and three different ranged weapons, at any time with the press of TWO-THREE buttons
fixed, you need to set style and current melee/gun weapon first
If i pretend that Bayo only has guns, shotguns, sword and whip and equip all of them -- i could tell the same.
The problem is that Bayo has more than four-six weapons.
To achieve complete moveset without menu switching DMC4 reduced weapon number until they fit into memory.
>>340619725
I didn't say I wanted multiple weapons or styles anon, come on
I just want him to have more possible moves, he has TWO sword combos, TWO
You've played Bayonetta, right?
>>340619740
Really nigga?
He literally starts the game by impaling Dante on his own sword. Again.
>>340619592
>The Devil May Cry system means that the player is never left waiting on animations, they don't need to go through any additional steps with the game itself
So you agree that Bayo system is superior because while Dante has to do additional steps with the game itself to set style, Bayo can enter shortctus ficing her full moveset at any time without waiting on any animations?
>>340619961
God, you are one self-absorbed Bayofag.
>>340619961
>ficing
* giving
>>340619891
But there are four ground Red Queen combos.
>>340619885
Dante only has that many weapons because the game itself is unfinished. They could easily give him more if it was complete.
>>340619891
Two? He has four basic combos on the ground with his sword. And they can all be augmented by three levels with revving.
I mean sure if you want him to be a more Bayonetta-like combo character that's fine, but it's not just two.
>>340619998
i just played more than just DMC games
I am very open-minded and can easily be persuaded that i am wrong if you can present your argument without repeating ones that you himself already shown to be wrong.
>>340620072
I'm not the guy you were arguing with. I just think you're an arrogant jackass.
Only an arrogant jackass could tell countless people they're wrong for liking a thing.
