Can anyone tell what "game sense" means?
http://boards.4chan.org/r9k/thread/29143447/be-me#bottom
Ctrl + f 'game sense'
This dota 1 player keeps bringing it up
common sense in terms of game mechanics for a specific game
>>340447250
Game sense in dota is probably a mix of map awareness, mechanical knowledge and gut feelings that let you know when you can farm, when you can't farm, when you can push, when you need to run away, how far back you can go till you're safe. Basically if you have no game sense you're that retard that keeps getting initiated on by a blink dagger slardar
>>340447250
game sense is the able to read the map, your team mates movement/ style of play and the enemy.
Though communication is key for more competitive play.
>>340447250
>not linking cross-board threads properly
>image.jpg
hello sweet summer
>>340447509
hello autism
>>340447461
>>340447421
>>340447335
So it's meta
>>340447461
>tfw you see that the riki is missing
>you spam the mid to back off because riki is missing
>he feeds first blood
>blames me
>tfw enemy team feels sorry for me because I'm a support phoenix and my team is full of idiots who can't buy initiation items
I hate dota so much sometimes
>>340447830
Meta is what game sense evolved to. That r9kuck will get destroyed if he played dota today
>>340447830
If you mean meta in the metagame sense, maybe. If you mean meta as in the currently favored strats and picks then you're retarded.
>>340447624
You're still bumping the thread idiot.
>>340447335
>>340447421
>>340447461
If game sense is so important then why is talked about so little compared to meta? dota2 players are better players on average so why isn't game sense talked about as much as meta?
>>340448324
because it is not that interesting to discuss, mechanics are mechanics but there are some nuances and details to a meta and how it changes
>>340448324
Because game sense isn't a tangible thing. It's an intuition that you acquire after spending hours upon hours playing the game. Anyone can learn the meta, but being actually good requires a fuckload of time, patience, intellect and skill. If you're basically a 4k or above, you have a degree of game sense, and if you're 5.5k or above then your game sense is at its peak.
Game sense I think refers to a sense you get over time from map awareness and character knowledge that lets you get a feel of when things are going to happen and what you can achieve.
It is basically game experience.
>>340448562
How many hours are we talking here to acquire game sense? The guy claimed 8000 hours before quitting. He's obviously not very good if he isnt at competition level after 8000 hours
>>340448973
If he played today's dota, he'd be 3.5k at best.
>>340448973
It varies from person. I've got some 2000 hours in dota and I'm at a 5k level, which is, according to yasp, better than 97.5% of dota players. I'm still nowhere NEAR competitive level by the way. Basically when I started playing ranked I was at around 3.8k, and I just play it now and then. I do recommend playing a lot of unranked before you move over to ranked though, because people are a lot more annoying in ranked.
Being able to make accurate guesses at whats going on in the game at any given time, and knowledge of how certain things will go down.
A simple example is when the entire enemy team is off the map, they might be doing rosh.
Someone with more game sense will be able to pick up on the enemy supports patterns and more accurately deward, or have a better guess at where the enemy has truesight.
It also falls into knowing how fights will end up. A player with no game sense will have no idea how slark vs troll warlord simply right clicking each other until one dies will turn out. A player with a lot of game sense can make informed guesses of how entire teamfights will turn out depending on how people act, and therefore they know who they should target and whatnot.
At least thats my understanding of it. A more intuitive grasp of the game, rather than simple knowledge.
>>340448973
You obtain game sense by playing the game and tweaking your intuition. Thats why i said dota guides are stupid. Dive in heads first. You can learn everything just by playing.
You can dabble on literature e.g. Mechanics once you've familiarised yourself with the game
>>340449134
Well you're right. Im just not that competitive. I dont see how you people can play 3 - 5 balls to the wall hard out games in a day. If i play one completely serious match i need to get away from he computer for a while
>>340450313
I wish I'd read a simple guide before diving in.
I'd never played a game even remotely similar to dota, hadn't played an RTS in years even when I started.
Pic related is how it turned out. Didn't have a clue what I was doing until I started playing Lycan a bit.
>>340450313
So you're pretty much advocating for new players to go into the game without knowing what the fuck they're doing?
>>340450953
fuck, forgot pic
>>340451020
All you need to know is what dota is about and thats it. but if you've heard of dota then you've already completed this step
>>340451062
Just keep playing the game. I used to get linkins sphere as a main build for rikki. But then i grew up and got myself a dagon instead.
>>340448324
Game sense is essentially "You don't do stupid things".
You can just outright skip reading the guides and watch some competitive match instead. Learnt so many things i wouldnt have known if i just dive in head first. Hearing commentator discuss from A to Z is another good way to learn
>>340447250
knowing what you should be doing and what other players are doing without actually knowing.
aka it's something you either have or you don't you cant build it.
>aka git gud 2k shitter
>>340451062
>Normal Skill
>>340451654
>rikki with dagon
Yeah, you would get rekt by today's players, unless you started playing dota when dota 2 came out
>>340447250
Watch pro games, there are times one team cannot physically know where another team is based on vision and information, but they have an idea where they are from experience
Also Dota is a game of numbers, but you cant crunch them all on the fly, you geneally need to have a feel of how much dmg you do compared to resistances
>>340452168
>he never considered that part of the reason i played dota was because it was built from wc3
If i were 14 in 2016 I wouldn't play dota. Ill download it and just it to see why it's the most popular steam game, play a few matches and uninstall without being able to appreciate the game.
Is it surprising i stopped playing dota in 2013 which was when dota was officially released and the population on the private pvpgn wc3 server i go to plummeted.
I never bothered with dota2. I played 2 games on it though and no i just couldnt be fucked getting used to the new layout
>>340447250
For me at least, 'game sense' has always been a mix of experience and map awareness.
Knowing how the enemy team is going to move from just taking a look at the minimap or knowing how different scenarios are gonna play out, such as lategame transitions and whatnot.
It's more complicated than simply looking at the minimap, see 5 missing and figure you're getting ganked.
>>340451654
Riki is currently played as a support, information is key in current Dota.
He essentially plays like a roaming ward
Dota2 players and other MOBA fans constantly make up shit to justify playing a horribly broken and unfun genre. Ignore them.
>>340453075
Game sense was a dota term way before the term 'moba' even existed.
>>340453075
>horribly broken
>current tournmanet had 95 out of 112 heroes picked
Naw man its pretty balanced right now
>>340453039
According to the r9k thread. Today's player prefers to farm as hard as possible.
>rikki
>support
I don't know what to feel anymore. Pic related
>>340453075
I unironically believe that dota is one of the most balanced and diverse multiplayer games out there. The game has a massive hero pool and massive item pool, with each of those being useful, some more situationally than others, but none of them are flat out broken.
>>340453039
How the fuck is riki played as a support? Riki is a utility hero, great at position 3. Riki gains almost nothing from supporting, his ult in particular is utterly trash if you're not farmed.
>>340453737
With this patch id say youre right
but last patch was a shit show
>>340453505
Dont get me wrong his kit is very carry oriented, but pros play him like a more annoying bounty hunter currently
>>340453195
>dota term
>before moba existed
But Dota has always been a MOBA, even if it wasn't called that, you dense motherfucker. Do you think Doom didn't have elements of FPS even though it wasn't called an FPS back then?
Jesus fuck, MOBAfags.
>>340454025
Yeah, 6.86 was a nightmare, but you know what, I'll take a bad patch (or 3) to the stagnant, dying shitshow that is the LoL meta.
>>340453505
>Drop smoke cloud correctly
>Literally free kills
Jeez
Dota 1 play style vs dota 2 play style.
Can their game sense save them? Or will dota 2 meta reign supreme?
>>340448324
Game sense is basics m8.
>watching the map and realizing a gank is coming, so you avoid it.
>not overextending and dying
>playing your role
>going into the proper lane in the early game
>knowing when to tp in to a lane for a fight
>carrying a tp at all times
>building items that contribute to the match
>not stealing farm from your carry or other players that will make better use of it
>grabbing runes
>not initiating team fights in bad positions
>not making a bad hero pick that's either already hard countered or not needed by your team
>>340453984
Tranquils, Orb of Venom and wards, you sneak in and place wards everywhere while scouting everything
His cloud is way too good, and ruins most carries
>>340454025
>but last patch was a shit show
Every patch is shit when below Very High Skill.
A lot of heroes simply are not good when played incorrectly, and a lot of heroes is very mechanically strong when nobody is bothering to counter them
Its almost as if Omni Knight is a free win at low enough level, because his ultimate SHITS on initiation.
>>340453984
Riki is literally just a roaming ganker. Hes not a hard carry, or a laner. If you're not rotating, buying wards, and killing overextended enemies constantly, you're a failed Rikki
>>340448973
>How many hours are we talking here to acquire game sense?
As many as it takes to grasp the mechanics and the habits of your partners and opponents. I'll use my fighting game knowledge as an example.
>Fighting a guy
>His character is rush-down oriented
>Mine's well rounded
>His health is very low, mine is not
Being low, most people would fall back and camp. However, he's playing a rushdown, has defensive options, and is more likely to win if he goes for some offbeat YOLO strategy. Based on what he's done earlier in the round, I can get an idea of what his next move is, and how well he understands his character. Game sense is taking everything you know and applying it in the moment
>>340454425
He makes for a good position 3. The reason why he can't be as good a support as gondar is that he can't gain as much gold from encounters, which means he doesn't scale as well.
>>340454637
You can play him as an effective carry because he's got high physical defense and he does an obscene amount of damage with the right lineup. I mean, I just had this match http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2415642944 the other day. Granted I was up against a nyx in the lane who I completely destroyed, but still. I still think that Riki makes for a better position 3 than position 4, but whatever.
>>340454563
>play omni with tidehunter
>tide initation with aoe stun
>once stun is gone, omni ult
We won in less than 30 minutes. They gave up after 15 minutes because we 5 man pushed everything and they couldn't win a single fight, or even kill one of us.
>>340454875
>has zero* defensive options
Game sense is basically having a grasp on the fundamental mechanics and strategies. Just like you can't beat a better fighting game player with learning combos alone.
>>340454563
Naw OD and Invoker were way too strong last patch.
They received nerfs but theyre still very viable.
>>340447830
not at all...
>>340454882
its the opposite, with some matchups he's a better Gondar.
Track kills are nice, but aoe silence slow means guaranteed kills
>Echo Sabre on Slark, Sven, Tiny or Slardar
>>340455786
Yeah but riki is an item dependent hero, at least somewhat. If you don't build damage on him, you need blink/force staff, and position 4/5 don't get that. Riki gets destroyed against a prepared team, so you need some of those items
>>340447250
understanding the flow of the game through all available info to predict enemies moves and the optimal course of action you can follow
in dota it refer to knowing when to push, retreat, farm, smoke, fight, when you're about to get ganked etc...
>>340450157
The best explanation right here
>>340455993
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2420586461/combat
>item dependant
>wins the game with a late diffusal only
It was such a problem Newbee had to ban it in the first round
>>340456546
u wot, he had a crimson guard and midas and a gem
>>340448324
Because it's your gut feeling. How the hell is your gut feeling in one match that someone will come kill you soon going to help someone else in another match? Only way game sense can truly be discussed is after match when someone can say "oh I just felt like they were going to get me" and that's how he evaded them.
>>340456698
Hes a position 4, his midas came at 16 mins, his diffusal at 27 mins
go look at the build timer on dota buff
>>340451654
>>340452149
They were my first games back in 2012. I'm much better now.
>>340456964
Well I guess I'm behind the meta once again.
best doto thread in a while.
i'll drink vodka and play dotka at this special occasion.
may the mad moon curse be upon you, gulagites.
>>340457553
>tfw I'm a 5k and I'll never know the pains of being in the gulag
feels good man
>>340457753
>4k and crawled out of the gulag
man the gulag is fun, You can dominate lanes but lose games.
but the sheer power you feel you have in your lane makes up the loss
Why do my good Dota friends (4k mmr+) humble and say they're shit, and my shitty dota friends (<3k mmr) always talk about it like they're secret pros being held back by their teams?
>>340458023
Because the moment you realize that you're bad is the moment when you start improving.
In other words, ME OOGA TEAM BOOGA is a loser mentality.
>tfw could maybe climb out of 4k but too scared to solo queue
>>340458023
the greatest inner truth in dota is get gud.
you can blame teammate, that don't make you better.
you can't control how you get matched.
the only answer is get gud.
a 4k knows best.
>>340458336
>>340458023
Aui said it well in one of his videos. If you're at a 4k level, you are getting ranked with other 4ks. Your skill bracket represents your skill level, so as long as you're staying where you are, not going up or down, you are being matched with people of YOUR skill level. The moment you accept that, is the moment when you can start to improve.
>>340447250
Essentially a powerful intuition built up over many years of experience.
