So what was it about? Did she actually kill herself in the end or was it a dream?
>>340346680
Dunno
I got interested in the game and played some of it, but I just got bored and confused after a while
This thread just made me think of what Yume Nikki would be like as a hollywood movie.
The "game" was a dream and she kills herself at the end
>>340346680
She was a loner who was raped and then killed herself due to nightmares about it.
>>340347372
No.
>it's another Undertale thread
>>340347619
>She was a loner who was raped and then killed herself due to nightmares about it
good riddance
>>340347665
>it's a wojak poster
>>340347859
there's that fucking picture again. is that an actual JFK quote? where does that come from?
I don't think this is a game you're supposed to think too hard about. I've read plenty of theories like how the faces that look at you in the tunnel of the forest zone are supposed to be vaginas and how there's rape connections throughout the game implying Madotsuki is fucked up from trauma. Or how the bird women are supposed to be nurses and you're actually in a coma. These are all good theories, but I feel like the creator didn't put as much thought into this kind of stuff as people would like to imagine, you're just looking too far into a game that's not supposed to be looked deep into.
>>340348019
from 4chan of course.
>>340348128
but why is that quote paired with that picture of JFK?
Im about to play this game for the first time, any advice? What should I expect?
Yume Nikki is a collaboration of themes, if you will. You can only really analyze individual meanings of individual events in the game; trying to put them all together to form a coherent plot is impossible because KIKIYAMA wanted to include many different psychological themes in his game. You are supposed to take everything in as it comes, like a dream.
>>340347859
>>340348019
>We are riding on the edge of World War 3 everyday
This- this still holds true.
>>340348640
The face fits the message
>>340348640
/pol/ meme
>>340348668
You should expect to be disappointed. No seriously. I liked the game, but it is a walking simulator with no plot or hints on where to go. Most people will spend about 10 minutes walking around, get bored, and never touch it again. It's not for everyone. But if you like exploring an interconnected world of dream like aesthetics, than you'll like Yume Nikki. Also, finding the last effects can be very hard, as the world is very large and if you're just looking for one effect, it can be really annoying.
>>340347619
>loner
>was raped
Hmmmmm
>>340348668
Also, if you find the Bike, use it basically all the time, it's EXTREMELY useful.
>>340349004
>>340347619
Take your teenager fanfiction elsewhere
>>340346680
Yep. Killed herself.
People will make theories to try to pretend otherwise, but she committed suicide. Even though she is a fictional character, she longed for peace and an end to her suffering and she got it. Shame she probably traumatized the people on the ground though, but everything we do in life affects others.
Why did she do it? Because life is much more pain than pleasure. We wouldn't need to constantly distract ourselves from the reality of life if it was a good thing. If it wasn't for our ingrained self-preservation instincts, we would all have been dead or killed ourselves long ago. It's simply the logical thing to do. And don't give me the bullshit about the Myth of Sissyphus and having to pretend he's happy. That's living life in bad faith and embracing an illusion and a lie.
Like I said, misery largely outweighs happiness which are like splatter of stars on the pale night sky. The beautiful exception to the norm. It simply isn't worth it to many people. It all has to do with costs versus benefits.
I speak from two suicide attempts, and I just couldn't make that final push because the brain will do anything to convince itself to stay alive and that things will be alright, even when in reality they won't. Doubt I'll ever have the balls to do it and I am fated to this shit existence until I finally die of natural causes. My family will die and I will probably be locked in a psych ward all my life because I simply cannot get better.
Oh well. At least I take some comfort that some day I have to die and this universe will die too. This hell has to end one day.
By the way YN is one of the few games that really made me cry. It resonated so much with me.
At the risk of sounding pretentious and melodramatic, I leave you with o e of my favorite quotes:
>“We Only Arrive At Ourselves In A Freely Chosen Death” Jean Amery
>>340349216
best area
According to the "official" manga her jumping off the ledge was also part of the dream and was,actually her waking up. I do agree that much of what is in the game does not actually have meaning behind it.
>>340349182
>at the point where my brain is trying to convince me suicide is the only option
Nig even animals kill themselves. The worst thing is suicide is completely natural. The idea that the matters of strife in life is pain versus pleasure is retarded though, this is why character integrity is a thing.
>>340349182
no wonder people hate you. kill yourself.
>>340348979
Yume Nikki is bad if you approach it with the mindset of this anon and also metagame it with a guide. It just doesn't "work" when you know 100% what to expect before you even play it.
>>340346680
The game is about depression
Life is tiny and pointless and unwinnable (Nasu) and goes nowhere, and all you want to do is sleep. But no matter how hard you try you can't ever fully make sense of anything, and your dreams have become nightmares, and you're lost, and all you're really working toward is killing yourself
>>340349182
If the purpose of life was to avoid pain, we wouldn't be able to feel it in the first place, you hypocrite.
>>340349764
>>340349182
>>340348095
>>340347619
The meaning of the game, from the creator own page
http://www3.nns.ne.jp/pri/tk-mto/kikiyamaHP.html
>>340349816
That's not at all what I said.
Life is painful. Life is objectively more pain than pleasure. Significantly more
We only live in spite of that because it is evolutionary instinct to do so. Our instinct to survive, fuck and make more babies to continue our species survival.
This isn't some groundbreaking, new or some fucking epiphany few people realize. We all know this to be the truth, we just ignorance and pretend otherwise. Like how we pretend free will actually exists.
>>340350069
Looks like we will need a moon-rune scholar to evaluate these runes
>>340349182
You should take some acid
>>340350195
Choose to be ignorant of it on purpose*
>>340350069
Honestly he really should have left the suicide scene out.
>>340349764
CRAAAAAWLING IIIIIIIIN MY SKIIIIIIIIN
IT WAS ALL A DREAM
>>340350213
Check the image fampai, second line
nothing
Obscure so it's intentionally unclear and people talk about it
>>340349816
The purpose of pain is so you can avoid it you XBOX HUEG dumb fucker.
>>340350069
He said the game didn't have a story (and it doesn't, there's no narrative structure of any kind), not that it didn't have a point.
If the game was just about surreal wandering he wouldn't have bothered with the ending or the "overworld" to begin with, it would have played like LSD.
He may not have known exactly what story he wanted to tell but there's an underlying idea there that he's dancing around, even if inadvertently.
>>340350069
I fucked up, here's the actual url that screenshot is from
http://www3.nns.ne.jp/pri/tk-mto/game1.html
>>340350213
You might be saying that jokingly, but I always thought this.
Its like, come on, these are the only words the developer has ever publicly said about the meaning of his own game, and yet people haven't translated the text on his website accurately as far as I know.
>>340350195
You said that suicide is the only logical thing to do, and you said this because you think the purpose of life is to avoid pain.
>>340350195
free will does exist you idiot. It just in no way makes determinism false. We have the ability to go in any direction we want, but there is no guarantee that we will get where we are trying to go.
>>340350195
>pretend free will exists
I was okay with you at first but now you are just getting into teritory that has never been proven or debunked. Be sad all you want and draw whatever conclusions you will, really suicidal tendencies nature has changed in modern times, the reason you don't commit suicide will likely elude you until you actually have your shit actually pushed in to the point where nothing even means anything anymore, then you can see just how relevant the mind is to what it means to be a person. Mind isn't end all be all or the totality of being. Meaning is way more ambiguous now for modern man.
>>340350473
The purpose of pain isn't to avoid pain, it's to avoid something else.
Anyone who thinks she actually dies at the end is either edgy, not paying enough attention, or a retard.
When she's 'awake' she walks around with her eyes closed for fucks sake. Not to mention her room as some impossible geometry when viewed from the balcony. The steps that appear at the end come out of thin air.
She's clearly dreaming throughout the whole game (even when she's 'awake') and simply interacting with beds transports her somewhere else in her dream, you can even go to sleep again after doing it the first time and it sometimes takes you to the hand staircase.
>>340350567
What no?
Just that the misery and sadness in life largely outweighs the happiness you get. Suicide is perfectly logical.
But our species doesn't base itself nor does it exist because it's logical. We are fucking illogical if anything, we are instinctual creatures, and that is all. And the instinct to stay alive is the strongest thing you can imagine.
>>340350919
>free will not real
I can choose whether i want a double cheeseburger or a BMT, checkmate faggot
>>340350525
He doesn't say shit about the "meaning" of the game, it's a brief description of what it is/how it works to help new players understand what to do.
"This is a game about a dream world with a dark atmosphere. There's no story or objectives, you just walk around. You can collect objects which change your appearance, some of which do things if you press a key. Press that key again to deactivate an active item".
That's got nothing to do with the emotional or allegorical purpose of the game, it's just a simple description of how it plays.
>>340351020
>Just that the misery and sadness in life largely outweighs the happiness you get. Suicide is perfectly logical.
That DOESN'T FOLLOW unless you believe that the purpose of life is to make happiness greater than sadness.
>>340350841
>>340350919
Define free will.
>>340351061
I never said it wasn't real you stupid bitch I'm saying he's an idiot for trying to make claim to something that scientifically hasn't been proven nor debunked. You can't say shit on free will right now and call it a favtllct, this goes for people against free will as well.
>>340350841
>>340350919
>free will does exist
No, it doesn't.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/theres-no-such-thing-as-free-will/480750/
Neuroscience is clear on this. But we have to pretend and live under the illusion that it does exist, if not jt simply would be disastorus to our species.
>>340351129
Pretty much what I expected, it just sounds strange in the machine translation, which makes it seem like he is saying that "there is no purpose" as in, "there is no purpose to the events in the game, so therefore no meaning". But really, he is just saying that there is no objective.
>>340351205
Except i just proved free will is real
>>340346680
is this udnertale?
>>340351176
>trying to think there is a manner of defining something such as that.
Nigger you don't even understand the fundamentals of the argument. Part of the reason it's not been proven or debunked is due to the ambiguous nature of the idea of free will.
>>340349182
The young boy stood very straight, his chin raised high and proud, and said: "There is no justice in the laws of Nature, Headmaster, no term for fairness in the equations of motion. The universe is neither evil, nor good, it simply does not care. The stars don't care, or the Sun, or the sky. But they don't have to! We care! There is light in the world, and it is us!"
>>340351321
Then go take it up with a scientist. I'm not even arguing on free will or not. I'm saying to say you have an answer right now but yet you still haven't taken this scientific discovery to the ongoing forum of this debate is retarded.
>>340351020
You need pain to know what pleasure is and truly appreciate it. I had a horrific experience when I was young, but the happiness of getting through it and that I have been given a chance to enjoy life outweighs the things that happened back then. Even people who I lost I can be glad that they had to chance to exist and I can remember them fondly. There is no right or wrong, the human mind is a blank slate and anything can be impressioned onto it, your reality is entirely different from mine and the same rules don't apply to both of us. I could never consider suicide after being given another chance.
>>340351374
Nigger do you know how words work? If you don't have a definition for the strings of symbols you smash into that keyboard you might as well be rolling your face across it.
>>340351313
Adding onto this, I think the machine translation of the game's description is why many people say "SEE? ITS ALL JUST RANDOM EVENTS STOP MAKING THEORIES GUYSSS"
>>340351263
The concept of free will isn't inherently incompatible with determinism.
Free will simply means that you can choose to act in one way or another. The fact that your choice is contextually predetermined doesn't mean that you didn't make it; the act of "choosing" is far more abstract than the chemical reactions underlying it.
If you were programming a vidya AI, you might (reasonably) talk of how it polls the distance to a nearby platform to decide whether it should jump. Nobody would say "um excuse me but AIs don't decide anything, all of their actions are predetermined by the underlying code" because that's not what words like "decide" and "choose" mean.
To "not have free will" would mean that your actions were occurring regardless of your choices, not that your choices were arrived at without any external influence shaping them.
>>340351263
Then why is there still an ongoing debate?
The fact is free will is a very ambiguous thing.
>>340351176
>That DOESN'T FOLLOW unless you believe that the purpose of life is to make happiness greater than sadness.
Because you're fucking stupid and are unable to grasp what I'm trying to convey.
There is no inherent meaning to life. And in life misery largely outweighs happiness. We try our hardest to avoid suffering, any living being does, but life is filled with suffering. Thus suicide is a perfectly logical solution and probably the only one to this problem.
>>340350979
Does this mean that the undertale person is living in a constant dream?
>>340347619
>raped
no kill yourself
>>340351607
That's why religions are all the same right? There totally aren't multiple ideas to many things that are often given one word to identify it.
>>340351937
Now .flow, THAT was a game about a girl who was raped.
>>340351719
Would you be okay with someone else killing you?
>>340351719
You are still implying that the goal of all life is to avoid suffering.
>>340351767
Different artstyle, in YN there is sprites to be compared to, particularly Poniko and Monoko's clearly visible eyes. Theres an argument to be made about Monoes eyes and them just being Asian or something but Madotsuki's eyes (and mouth with the cat effect) are much lower on her face, implying her head is tilted down like a sleepwalker.
>>340352220
He won't understand what you're saying. His line of thought is an attempt to evoke a sense of deepness in ambiance he uses to avoid killing himself.
>>340352059
it was actually about cancer/whatever disease
>>340351710
Wow nigger. It's like you didn't read the article.
>Many scientists say that the American physiologist Benjamin Libet demonstrated in the 1980s that we have no free will. It was already known that electrical activity builds up in a person’s brain before she, for example, moves her hand; Libet showed that this buildup occurs before the person consciously makes a decision to move. The conscious experience of deciding to act, which we usually associate with free will, appears to be an add-on, a post hoc reconstruction of events that occurs after the brain has already set the act in motion.
Yes you technically made it. But it isn't a "free will" decision in any meaningful sense.
You typing and replying to my posts was predetermined milliseconds before you actually decided to do so. It isn't authentic "free will".
But it is a necessary illusion to believe in. Otherwise we would collapse as a specoes if we acknowledged that our actions are pretty much all predetermined for us.
Authentic free will does not exist. Science is clear on this. Deal with it.
>>340351503
I'm glad you found some happiness in life but it really does not negate that our existences are objectively more pain than pleasure. I wish you the best of luck in life though.
>>340352059
Was .flow any good? I was trying to keep up on 2kki but it just seemed to never get finished from what I remember, and I just never really looked into .flow, although I heard it's supposed to be more dark.
>>340352417
If I feel like it has, what difference does it make? I feel happy. Thank you, though
>>340352417
>Science
kek, I think it's time you read some Locke or Descartes
>>340351263
It does. That argument is one of semantics. The mere fact that someone would kill themselves, something that goes against every thought and idea of natural instinct, proves that. We can argue that because we have a build up before our mind comprehends making a decesion that we don't make decesions, but we do.
Granted we may have predetermined behavior and bias, but to pretend we are totally without will is silly.
>>340352417
Didn't even read this article but tell me what you think.
http://www.medicaldaily.com/free-will-exists-even-though-our-brains-know-what-were-going-do-we-do-it-304210
>>340352339
There's quite a bit of fairly... Uterine imagery, we'll say
The game has some sort of sexual-organ component, I don't think that's up for debate. The fact that Sabitsuki has an inner violent rage also doesn't mesh well with the illness theory.
>>340352417
>really does not negate that our existences are objectively more pain than pleasure
I'm not going to say my life has been more happy than bad, but this isn't really true. Some people have great lives, and are very happy and aren't sad at all.
>>340352220
No. There is no inherent goal to life. Ot's an absurd meaningless existence. We just exist in spite of that because of instinct.
But do you agree that suffering is bad and should be avoided as much as possible? We know suffering is objectively bad, our bodies react negatively to it. Put your hand on a hot stove and see what happens.
The thing is that life is just more suffering than pleasure. It's better to have not been born. Read Benatar.
>>340352417
>Oh no , there's a bit of lag. I guess we have to throw away an entirely different concept because there is some input lag.
>>340352417
But that experiment completely takes out the idea of dwelling and thinking on something. The person could have thought of whether or not to move their hand before and made a decesion. Then they could have changed it. That experiment proves little other than our brain lags behind reaction and some split second choices.
>>340352857
>objectively
subjectively
>>340352857
I agree with you. You should kill yourself to avoid more suffering.
>>340352417
Yeah, no shit.
But I experienced the act of choosing, and then experienced actions which carried out my choice.
So it's free will, at least in meaningful human terms.
Free will does not mean "the ability to act with complete and utter randomness", we're not walking photons undergoing perpetual wavefunction collapse. Of course what we experience as a "choice" has a precursor in environmental effects that lead to the brain selecting reactions, and of course the brain has to start processing these reactions BEFORE we experience the sensation of "consideration"
So what. We choose and we act in accordance with those choices, which means we have free will. What we will choose is predetermined, true, but we still perform the act of choosing.
>>340346680
>Did she actually kill herself in the end
she dead nigga
>>340352417
I am sure that you are a faggot entirely of your own free will.
>>340352608
Nah. Analytic.
>>340352628
You arw not gettibg it.
Every action you do, piss, shit, fap, game whatever is decided in your brain before you actively decide to do that very thing. Yes we have will, but it isn't truly free will.
The consensus amongst neuroscientists is already clear on this. It's perfectly fine and healthy to believe in the illusion that we possess free will, but it is an illusion.
>>340352089
Wouldn't mind tbqh
>>340352857
You can't say that everything is meaningless then start claiming some views are objective. You also seem to be mixing up suffering with things that can cause suffering.
>>340353457
>the existence of the subconscious somehow makes an argument against free will.
Holy shit nigger.
>>340353457
>is decided in your brain before you actively decide to do that very thing
...what?
Your brain is not a separate construct external to the idea of "you"
When "your brain decides" to do something, you are deciding to do something.
The conscious sensation of making that choice just lags behind the electrochemical reactions that underly it slightly. That's neither surprising nor relevant to the question
>tfw you will never explore a world like in Yume Nikki
life sucks, drop out
>>340353109
>But I experienced the act of choosing, and then experienced actions which carried out my choice.
But it wasn't free will in terms of positive liberty. Your decision was already made for you before you conciously made it. It is only free will in the sense tat you were not hindered by external forces in making that decision.
I tire of explaining this simple concept to you.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/free-will-could-all-be-an-illusion-scientists-suggest-after-study-that-shows-choice-could-just-be-a7008181.html
Science is clear on this.
Comfort and suffocate yourself with your illusion m8.
>>340353949
>Your decision was already made for you before you conciously made it
So?
The fact that a billion simultaneous external factors come together to shape every single event in every single instant in the universe is not a depressing thought, it's kind of cool.
I FEEL free to choose, that's as far as it matters.
>>340351374
There is not a SINGLE other term in all of existence that I can inquire for a definition to and get a reaction like this.
It's fucking undefined. Anyone who uses the term free will seriously has been meme'd. It's a ruse that has been going on for over a millennium.
>>340353949
As stated before, your argument is the definition semantics.
Also
>Science is clear on this
>Links to an article from the Independent
Maybe you should suffocate yourself.
>>340354201
>There is not a SINGLE other term in all of existence that I can inquire for a definition to and get a reaction like this.
Try "capitalism" or "socialism"
And watch the shitshow unfold
>>340354201
>no other term
Reality
What was her problem?
>>340353702
>>340353738
>Humans are convinced that they make conscious choices as they live their lives. But instead it may be that the brain just convinces itself that it made a free choice from the available options after the decision is made.
>The idea was tested out by tricking subjects into believing that they had made a choice before the consequences of that choice could actually be seen. In the test, people were made to believe that they had taken a decision using free will – even though that was impossible.
>The idea that human beings trick themselves into believing in free will was laid out in a paper by psychologists Dan Wegner and Thalia Wheatley nearly 20 years ago. They proposed the feeling of wanting to do something was real, but there may be no connection between the feeling and actually doing it.
>In one of the studies undertaken by Adam Bear and Paul Bloom, of Yale University, the test subjects were shown five white circles on a computer monitor. They were told to choose one of the circles before one of them lit up red.
>The participants were then asked to describe whether they’d picked the correct circle, another one, or if they hadn’t had time to actually pick one.
>Statistically, people should have picked the right circle about one out of every five times. But they reported getting it right much more than 20 per cent of the time, going over 30 per cent if the circle turned red very quickly
Freewillfags utterly btfo and continously btfo
Enjoy denying science
>>340354325
>>340354359
I have seen definitions for those given plenty of times.
>>340354384
Super AIDS
>>340354646
That's why the idea of reality being a hologram and the like have been entertained still to this day by science right?
https://youtu.be/8M0bjfoNdfMaesthic
>>340353909
Drugs + (lucid) dreams. Should work.
>>340347619
>who was rapedI prefer the theory that says she's lesbian because it panders to me.
How autistic do you have to be to like autistic trash like this?
>>340354738
Defining something and creating a model of it aren't the same thing. Saying what a bicycle does isn't explaining how one works.
>>340354913
What games do you like then anon?
>>340354451
But that doesn't really prove the point so much as it confirms something we already know about selection bias; your memory wants to remember you being right and will happily distort your recollection of events to maintain that self-image.
This is the same reason you get people who were falsely accused of murder and spent 30 years on death row saying the experience was a blessing once they're exonerated and they'd do it all over again if they had the chance. Or why the Ben Franklin Effect exists.
>>340354996
Real fucking games, like Overwatch and Uncharted 4
>>340354996
Actual one's with goals, and don't look like 80's pixel puke
itt
>FREE WILL IS A MYTH
>RELIGION IS A JOKE
>WE ARE ALL PAWNS
>CONTROLLED BY SOMETHING ELSE
>MEMES
>mfw Monsoon was right
>>340354964
>Reality is ambiguous but saying the matter of free will isn't when there are also many different schools of thought on it making the idea also inherently ambiguous is somehow means of dismissal
am·big·u·ous
amˈbiɡyo͞oəs/
adjective
(of language) open to more than one interpretation; having a double meaning.
"the question is rather ambiguous"
unclear or inexact because a choice between alternatives has not been made.
"this whole society is morally ambiguous"
synonyms: equivocal, ambivalent, open to debate/argument, arguable, debatable;
>>340355058
>>340355112
Name three please.
>>340355157
*free will is
Tired as fuck desu senpai
this game is literally a meme for weeaboos
>>340346680
the game was never finished.
I thought kikiyama came forward and explained it was incomplete and the ending wasn't final
>>340355168
Literally any actual game is better than your meme indie non game trash
Bejeweled for example would be marginally better and more fun
>>340355157
*reason for dismissal
I am quite tired af.
ITT: People who have never opened a book on philosophy
>>340347665
Pretty surprised this bait was so unsuccessful. It is pretty good bait, at least a 6/10 so you deserve this (You)
>>340355441
Philosphy is for faggots
>>340355414
Anon. The names.
>>340355441
>open book
>suddenly know what the book is about
>>340355157
If a statement is ambiguous, it means the speaker failed to be clear.
>>340354913
How autistic do you have to be to post something like this?
>>340355628
The statement wasn't ambiguous. I'm saying free will is ambiguous just like how reality is. There are many different models for the idea of free will.
>>340355441
Philosophy is the art of thinking really hard about questions barely worth thinking about at all
>>340355032
Look man free will just doesn't exist.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1460-9568.2008.06525.x/abstract;jsessionid=E713F65551DF70C48C7F322BB3BD4402.f03t02
You are a denialist. Just like the anti vaxxers and global warming deniers.
science is clear on this. Deal with it
Free will is a perfectly healthy illusion to believe in but it technically does not exist.
>>340355115
>>340355817
Any statement that contains free will is ambiguous, because free will is a useless term that doesn't refer to anything. There is no meaningful statement that requires the use of the term "free will" to work.
>>340355838
>It's a healthy illusion
>tries to make peo Pl le believe it doesn't exist when it's already been called by you a healthy belief
Nigger, what the fuck is wrong with you? You are actively telling people to practice double think. If it's healthy and good for them to believe in it then you DON'T actively go around trying to make them not believe in it.
>It's a 14 year old just links articles to prove his edgy philosophy thread
God, to be young again.
>>340355838
If by "technically" you mean "your decisions are not prime movers, they are in fact set in motion by past events like all other things that happen", then I agree.
I just happen to think it's stupid to conflate that fact with being a mind-controlled puppet incapable of choosing.
>>340356009
Bullshit, the same can be said for reality. Something being ambiguous doesn't mean it has no definition, it's rather that the meaning of it is debateable. It's the same thing with psychological models. You don't understand what you are talking about.
>>340356140
oh anon i wish i was as mature as you
What are some good fangames
I've played .flow, lcddem, 2kki, me, answered prayers, yume nisshi
>>340355838
>free will just doesn't exist.
You have fallen for the free will trap, which isn't about whether it or not it exists, but whether or not it's even a term that means something. Your statement has validated it; it has agreed with the idea that the term free will means something. And because of that, you have already lost. By merely daring to entertain their incoherent noise, you allow yourself to be trapped in an unwinnable argument.
>>340356035
*people
Tired af and I'm phone posting
>>340355115
How about "full of shit"?
Is that a meme?
Philosophy aside, you guys had any dreams lately? I only dream a few times a year and they're not really memorable.
>>340356279
Witch's house
Be sure to watch the 2 endings
>>340356214
Somebody says reality, most people can get what they are referring to. Somebody says free will, nobody understands what they are talking about.
>>340356279
well, you could always go for the other games that might be inspired by YN but play completely different like Witch's House and Ib.
Or if you're really in the mood for something...different...try Toilet in Wonderland.
>>340356350
Where is the Yume Nikki? You promised me Yume Nikki thread faggots.
>>340356440
>>340356460
Yeah, I've heard about Witch's House. I'll take a look at that, thanks.
>>340346680
It was a dream, but then she woke up and an heroed irl because the dream was too scary.
>no one posted bird girl lewds
C'mon /v/
>>340356564
Cool. Make sure to get all the endings and go in completely blind.
>>340356454
>most people get what they mean
Yeah that's why there are many different models for the universe right and why the topic is highly debatable?
I want to take them home
>>340356740
I want to picnic with them
>>340356390
i had a dream where i was a pre-teen and had sex with my male school teacher in the bathroom
i also had several dreams about being raped and being the star of some TV show on child abuse, also several dreams involving sexual things with my family members
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLWHdrNV9B8
>>340356735
The word is meaningful enough to use in casual speech without devolving into an incoherent mess. Which is more than can be said for free will. You can literally start a shitstorm over semantics by posting a thread with only the words "free will" in /lit/ or /sci/. Nothing else can do that.
>>340356875
Mado go back to bed
>>340354751
>Drugs + (lucid) dreams. Should work.
Never been able to lucid dream, my sleeping issues make it a really difficult task, tried for years and with different ways.
Never had any drug besides weed.
>>340356390
I don't usually remember my dreams, but in this one I had recently I dropped a turtle down the sink somehow and tried to get it out. I couldn't do it before I woke up. The turtle wasn't really small and the sink in question certainly did not have a big enough opening for it so I don't even know why that happened in the first place. I only remember it because I woke up still feeling like I wanted to save the turtle but then I laughed at how dumb my dream was.
>>340356980
You can start a shit storm over reality. The fact is free will as shown in this thread is a very understandable term, just because you don't understand it doesn't mean shit. I've seen plenty of arguments made over the nature of reality and it itself has been able to be a very provocative subject.
>>340356873
I like the "I'm not supposed to be here" look on Mado's face. Perfectly fits.
>>340349182
These are clear signs of depression, anon.
I know what you said is objectively true. But it's not everyones experience. Your brain is just a little fucked up. You're probably born with depression which has dulled your experience of life.
I myself am a very happy person that loves every moment of my life. It's just how my brain works.
I have a crappy life. Grew up poor without electricity and heating. But for some reason my brain always was just happy.
I think people like you are just unlucky and born depressed. Some people are born happy.
I don't really think experiences in life determine if you're happy or unhappy. It's literally how your brain is wired at birth.
I think this because I know a lot of people with great lives that always have been depressed. And people like me and my parents that have had a absolutely trash lives and are the happiest people I know.
Like another guy said. I suggest taking acid since it's proven that acid can rewire the structure of your brain with some luck changing the depression wiring into that of a happy person.
TL;DR
People are born happy or unhappy, you're just unlucky due to genetics to have been born unlucky. Don't assume that your experience is that of everyone. Because for people like me life has more pleasure than suffering. Making it worth it by a LOT.
Has everything in this game been discovered? Is there possibly any other secrets in the game?
>>340357278
Casually using the word reality will not spark a debate over it.
>The fact is free will as shown in this thread is a very understandable term, just because you don't understand it doesn't mean shit
I'm the biggest idiot in the world. Please explain this extremely simple term to me. It should be easy to do using only formal wording.
>>340357561
I don't think an RPG maker game can be encrypted enough (if at all) to hold secrets for so long.
SNAKE EATER
BUM BUM BUM BWAAAAAA
You know, some days ago I realized something new in .flow.
When you turn on the TV while on the "real" world, it doesn't show something normal, or static (like mado's TV), but instead some rust/blood columns.
Which basically means the "real" world is just another layer of the mindfuck
>>340357804
Ok, so at this point people have probably thoroughly analyzed the code and have found everything?
>>340357943
Most certainly.
>>340351263
>if not jt simply would be disastorus to our species.
What difference would it make?
>>340357774
>will not spark a debate
Oh so there's no scientific debates going over that anymore huh? Most people leave thinking on reality to others because they know it is an ambiguous idea.
Free will can be more confusing due to how it is that people define themselves and the like but free will isn't as volatile a subject as you are making it out to be, just because the places where you go it's volatile doesn't mean a damn thing about the entirety of the actual world. One board of faggots does not define all humans.
Also for the definition of free will just read through the thread. I myself am not going to sit here and write out something that could actually do it justice for an hour for you, so please for gods sake just fucking read the thread, someone gave a simple definition for it that is a commonly understood one.
But yeah just like reality you can say reality and there is good potential no one will know what you are talking about because beliefs on it as of right now are very subjective, so I say reality and you think you know what I'm talking about but you don't unless you understand my specific model. Same with free will.
>YN Novelization is half way translated
>Last update: April 22, 2015
>April
>22nd
>2015
>>340358382
That wasn't a formal definition. A statement isn't formal if it contains I/you/me/my/one's/someone's/person/people. This is basic English.
>>340358970
We'll never know
A shame, I was waiting for the full translation. I heard it touches on Jung's Collective Unconscious
>>340359040
Did I say it was formal? No I didnt. I said that's a basic definition commonly understood by people for the term of free will. I'm reffering to it as a layman's definition .
>>340352491
I liked it more than Yume Nikki myself, but maybe I'm in the minority for that. I'd say at least try it.
>>340353909
What do you mean? Go play YN right now, with enough delusion anything can be real.
Yume Nikki is the single game that legit freaks me out. I cant even play it for more than 20 minutes.
I guess it was too early for a Yume Nikki thread, they're usually so much calmer and more enjoyable than this one.
>>340360041
I'm the complete opposite I didn't even realize Yume Nikki was supposed to be scary.
If something doesn't have jumpscares I can't be scared at all.
The only thing that makes me scared in horror games is anticipating jumpscares.
>>340359316
But if it's not formal, it's not useful because you're involving a black box in the definition. Do you understand the amount of semantic weight you just casually throw out when you carelessly include agent indicators in a statement that somebody is trying to analyze?
I know what people mean. The issue is that people don't know what they themselves mean. And they never will know if they don't get rid of this semantic trap and switch to more pure terms.
One last Sabi before I go to sleep and dream of aztec rave monkeys
>>340351937
>>340349158
>>340354751
There are too many images related to pregnancy, cocks, blow jobs and groping for it to not be related to sex.
The girl dreams about cock monsters and eyeballs and then kills herself, gee what could that mean?
>>340360680
I want tohug_her and make hersmile.
>>340360635
>free will is commonly understood as agency and the expression of said agency
>you can't include agent indicators
>>340360959
>smile
If free will doesn't exist, neither do you or I.Good thing it doesn't.
>>340361024
You just defined it without including them.
Also, you don't actually believe in your own definition, or at least not consciously. Do you realize how big of a deal agency is? Our basic understanding of the universe is that all matter is "moved", so saying something is "moving" carries tremendous implications.
I didn't expect a YN thread to turn into a debate on free will.
>>340350956
death, it's to avoid death
we are our genes best attempt to avoid dying
everything is to avoid death
>>340346680
http://gamejolt.com/games/yume-nikki-3d/18055
>>340361981
well wez can't talk about no gameplay so...
>>340362231
It's not that simple. It's more like everything is to create God.
>>340359816
I like it more than YN too, it's probably a faggot thing to say but I connected more with the locations and general atmosphere of .flowI first found to the children's hospital area at night while the lights in my room were turned off
>>340361764
Nigger I'm bored af I'm just saying you can draw something simple from the layman's definition even if it has agent indicators because the matter is agency itself. You can think for yourself can you not?
Also since I'm tired please tell me what the factor of matter moving has to do with this. If you are trying to say specifically that agency can only be defined by movement when the concept of a thought crime is now a commonly understood thing then that's shit desu. We still don't know at least in what sense is it that a person exists. The argument that there are milisecond calculations done before you do anything means nothing in certain models where the personality/consious mind is understood to not be the person itself and rather that all of those calculations actually are. Common things can even be seen in mystic ideas that had to do with coming to understand what people are, the thought was for some that the base idea of self consisting of personality is an illusion. Anyways here is basically where the argument can actually go somewhere I guess, will itself is also an ambiguous term. At what speed is it that a person exists? Is it only at the speed of bodily expression?
>>340362527
When a person feels themselves "act" or "choose", their body is being influenced by something. The body is sensing and reacting to something that current physics and neurosciences have no model of. This is what is really happening; this describes the in the simplest way anomaly present in common human perception. The term "free will" leads thoughts astray and replaces the truth with something unrecognizable.
>>340362364
You can't convey the same feeling in 3d
>>340346680
There are implications of gender confusion, potential rape/molestation, and whatever you choose to see kyu-kyu-kun as.
>>340363283
Kek. Just kek. Some would say that that's the soul and all of that in religious ideas and the factor of it leading people astray has to do with the level of information they have or connectedness to the macrocosm. Either way if you dont have person, will, or this other factor totally defined you can't make arguments about the definition on any of these things which is why it's still taken as a debateable topic in scientific communitys. Quit playing around with your definitions as the truth of reality when we don't even know all of its parts. Science is still an ever evolving field, this means things are subject to reunderstanding upon revelation of new meaning.
>>340360041
Really? I re play the game sometimes just for the comfy exploring
>>340355838
This is the same type of pseudo-scientific babble people go on about when they say we can't prove we actually exist. It's just stupid, pointless drivel that is continouspy proven wrong in common sense, but given that its relatively I provable either way is still spouted. How do I know the red you see is the red I see man?
Free will, as far as it can be described , exists. All these articles prove is that our choices are made based on experiences and how we perceive them, a fact that is extremely obvious.
I think therefore I am.
I choose therefore I have a choice.
Regardless of whether the conscious brain lags behind our subconscious thought, free will exists in the form that matters, which is me making a choice.
But go on and spew your 'science' backed by 2 articles and a few obviously bias experiments that test something other than what was intended.
>>340363283
But a choice is made by our understanding of the situation. Regardless of if our brain can truly comprehend the speed at which the decesion is made, it is our decesion made by our body, and at any moment you can simply stop or change direction. I mean even knowledge of this subject can change your decesion. This is an argumenof semantics and what defines conscious decesion and it is silly. For all intents and purpose we as people have a choice and make choices.
