>This game is great!
>Why?
>The story's pretty good!
>Uncharted 4 was pretty disappointing compared to 2
>But hey, at least the story is touching
Story is just one aspect of what a game can offer. Games are products and if a game isn't fun, it isn't a valuable product.
Post more robuts
>>340139023
I LOVE JENNY!
I'M GOING TO MARRY JENNY!
>>340139023
Why is this not a valid position?
>>340139023
well, if they say
>this game is GOOD because of the story
that's wrong.
if they said
>I LIKED the game because of the story
that's reasonable.
I hate when game "reviewers" give games like Uncharted 10s and 9s when it's just yet another tps.
>>340139475
Nice quote, moron. You and him both know exactly what I mean. Fun is when you input some kind of command into the gameplay mechanic and you are entertained. I am tired of these pseudo-intellectual academics acting like video games are some enlightened form of art. They are products. Products aimed to entertain. Please, come up with your own opinions before you post in a discussion. Thanks, kid.
>>340139475
>plenty of categorically unhealthy things are "fun"
sounds like videogames alright
>>340139490
Because the primary objective of a video game isn't to tell a story. The primary objective of a video game is compelling gameplay.
Video games aren't novels.
Video games aren't cinema.
Video games are video games. Their whole purpose is interactivity. The interactive parts of the game should be the most polished and the most enjoyable. The interactivity of a video game is the appeal to its market.
A good game will bury the story in the interactivity. A good game will incorporate the player into the story and make the actions a player takes a part of that story.
A bad game will throw in gameplay completely irrelevant to the narrative, and then spice in a cutscene periodically to give the illusion of something consistent that the player is working towards.
A good game, and watching someone else play a good game, should compel someone to play that game. A shitty game with a good story does not compel anyone to play it. That shitty game will illicit just as much, and likely more, enjoyment from a person if they were to watch it be played; but it won't spark that desire for the person to be in front of that screen and holding the controller instead of just viewing the game being played.
That's why "but the story is good" is an invalid position for determining the quality of a video game.
context can do a great deal to improve a game tremendously
imagine DMC3's final bossfight if there was no context and dante and vergil weren't brothers but instead some random hero/villain pair that have nothing to do with each other
>>340140095
>Because the primary objective of a video game isn't to tell a story. The primary objective of a video game is compelling gameplay.
Who are you that you get to decide that?
It's not enough to save a shit game, but a good story can carry an average game and make it a meaningful experience. You might compare games to movies or novels but they use a different kind of storytelling method and so it's not really fair. In games you can interact with the characters and world and it allows you to use your own imagination to feel like you're an actual part of the story. Because it's a newer and less developed way of telling a story, it's a lot cruder, but it has a lot of potential and even a slightly dumb story can feel meaningful because of the interactivity aspect.
>>340140163
That's the objective truth of the medium.
The primary purpose of a novel is to tell a story.
The primary purpose of cinema is to tell a story.
The primary purpose of a video game is their interactivity; and the story, if there is one, comes a icing on the cake and not as the entire dessert.
The medium is ill suited and not intended for focusing on story above all else. There is no point to picking an interactive medium if the main focus is to tell a story; because there are stronger mediums for telling a story such as novels and films.
A good story is good for a game, but it should not detract from or overshadow the gameplay.
>>340140370
>That's the objective truth of the medium.
again, who are you?
![maxresdefault[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/lQTqdDY.jpg "maxresdefault[1].jpg")
post games with good stories that don't get in the way of the gameplay
>>340140095
So, Undertale is a masterpiece?
It does everything you pointed out as a "good game"
>>340140404
There was a story in that game?
>>340140398
I'm a guy posting on /v/. Try addressing a point made instead of panicking at the logic and attempting to go straight for the ad hominem so you can pat yourself on the back for dismissing everything I've said without ever giving it consideration.
>>340140469
If you read the mission briefings/debriefings, yeah
>>340140508
>I'm a guy posting on /v/.
exactly
no further argument needed
>>340140451
Undertale is a good game. The "tumblr fanbase" really tore apart its reputation with all the fanfiction that was being parroted as canon to the game. Anyone who has played Undertale is being disingenuous if they claim that the gameplay wasn't enjoyable, and even if they attempted to call the story hamfisted. It's a quality game that received hate not because of anything the game did, but because of its often obnoxious fanbase.
Is "story doesn't matter" the new "graphics dont matter" meme?
>>340140723
story does matter because it's timeless
graphics are not, therefore it doesn't matter
>>340140723
It could also possibly be "sound doesn't matter", or "gameplay doesn't matter" or any other ridiculous argument just for the sake of arguing
>>340140723
Yes
>>340140542
You must have a really easy time making friends and having discussions. I especially enjoyed the bit where I predicted that you would rather dismiss me than address my points, and then you did exactly that.
The delicious irony is that you don't see your hypocrisy. You'll ignore what I say for no other reason than that I'm who I am, yet you're holding fast to your own position for no other reason than that it's what you want to believe.
The function of discussions is that one party makes arguments and points and then a different party provides their own arguments to address those points. From there a back and forth will happen and everyone leaves with a little more insight on a subject. It's literally why the human species is as successful as it is.
But you're not a part of that progress because you refuse things you don't already believe, so you stay stuck a bubble of your own never changing opinions, and you ultimately end up as a narrow sighted simpleton with nothing of value to add to any discussion; because you refuse to have discussions.
>>340140723
Both of things are true.
>>340139380
>like football like a normal American
>instead of watching the game or playing it with friends, I look up the histories of professional players and how they got there
>the game part of the football is secondary honestly
>This game is amazing holy shit!
>What's good about it?
>Oh man it has the greatest graphics you gotta see it
>What about the gameplay?
>The what?
Every night when i go to sleep i hope that by the time i wake up all the normies and casuals are dead.
>>340140542
not him but why would you make a videogame to do something that other mediums can do better?
there are some books that tried being interactive (like Choose Your Own Adventure). but they didn't focus on the interactivity, they still focused on the story telling. why? because books are good at that, and if they tried to make interactivity the main aspect they'd be really boring.
why should videogames do the opposite? games are good at interactivity, focusing solely on the story makes for a "lame" game.
they're different mediums and should be treated as such.
Playing games for the story is like reading books because you enjoy flipping the pages.
>>340140723
"Story doesn't matter" is a poor way to state the position that story comes second to gameplay.
Story obviously matters, whether that's the absence of a story of the presence of a story that harshly overshadows gameplay, and anything in between, depends on the game.
Determining the quality of the game based on the story means looking at video games as a medium and evaluating if the product, gameplay and story and everything else, balanced those factors well. A video game shouldn't come off as more of novel or more of a movie than it did a game.
>>340141092
>not him but why would you make a videogame to do something that other mediums can do better?
because they can't, no other medium can connect a story and the consumer on a level of interactivity quite like games can, it can be the least "on rails" of all of them
>focusing solely on the story makes for a "lame" game
if the story is good enough then I really don't mind the absence or mediocrity of gameplay, like telltale's TWD1
>they're different mediums and should be treated as such.
exactly, games are a medium that incorporates all other mediums into a single entity and adds player interaction to it
I really don't know why you people want to argue one over the other, I demand both story and gameplay to be great in the games I buy
sounds to me like this is just an issue of "stop liking what I don't like" on a grand scale that was probably perpetuated by mediocre games that focused too much on story and had little to no gameplay, those weren't unenjoyable because they had a focus on story, those were unenjoyable because they were mediocre games
>>340139475
Even if a game makes you feel something it is still "fun".
Even if its only because of a story that makes you cry like a bitch, its still fun
>>340141530
They can but they don't ever need to. The biggest games in the medium are some that have no story at all.
>>340141856
>The biggest games in the medium are some that have no story at all.
and really shallow gameplay aswell!
>>340139023
>you're only allowed to like games for the reasons I say are ok
>>340141926
Which are?
>>340141976
you named them first
why don't you list them?
>>340141951
Stop right there, you can't use words "like" and "game" in the same sentence.
>>340141951
>a game can be 20 hours and play like shit but it's still good because muh story
>>340139023
>This show is great!
>Why?
>I want to fuck the robot!
>>340142018
I don't need to, you tell me.
>>340141530
We are NOT saying games shouldn't have a story (even though some work quite well that way anyway).
>if the story is good enough then I really don't mind the absence or mediocrity of gameplay, like telltale's TWD1
But why instead of making a game with a good story and a mediocre gameplay, they haven't done a good gameplay and mediocre story? Videogames are better on gameplay than on story. They're focusing on the wrong aspect.
And they're wasting potential. And since the developers that do this are more and more everyday, people that started playing videogames for the game aspect are not happy with it.
I still enjoy "story-driven games" but it'd be better if they focused on the aspect videogames do better.
>>340142097
I don't need to, you tell me.
I disliked most of the gameplay of Xenogears, but it's easily one of my favorite RPGs.
>>340140917
You never had a point mate, you just said "games are interactive so they have to focus on that and only that". You're ignoring the advantages that games for telling stories, and the fact that there are tons of people that enjoy playing games for the story
>>340142128
Have you started playing games recently that you can't think of the biggest ones?
>>340142038
he didn't say anything about it being good
he said like it.
>>340139650
If the point of the game is to tell a story, and it succeeds in doing that, it's a good game. You judge a game based on what it's trying to do, not what you want it to be
>>340142232
Then it's not great is it?
>>340142249
Not if the gameplay is bad no.
>>340142120
>But why instead of making a game with a good story and a mediocre gameplay, they haven't done a good gameplay and mediocre story?
because they wanted to do it that way?
what are you going to tell people what games they can and can't make now?
>Videogames are better on gameplay than on story. They're focusing on the wrong aspect.
well it worked out well for them and their game was really successfull and well liked, even here on /v/, so obviously they did focus on something right
>And they're wasting potential.
obviously their potential lies in telling a good story
>And since the developers that do this are more and more everyday, people that started playing videogames for the game aspect are not happy with it.
so it's literally "stop liking what I don't like"
listen, there are plenty other games for you that focus on compelling gameplay that you can play
trying to manipulate every game company to only make the games you like is beyond retarded
>>340142202
no, have you?
>>340142249
No, you judge the game based on what it is. It's a game and should be judged as such. It's not what I want it to be, it's what it is.
>>340141530
>>340141926
>>340142018
Do we really need any more evidence that the people who think story matters the absolute most in a video game don't actually have an argument as to why it matters the most?
They don't have an argument because saying that story matters the most in a video game is like saying that snack cart options matter the most on a flight.
Do good snacks make a good flight better? Yes.
Do good snacks make a terrible flight better? Yes, but you'd be an idiot to use that same airline again.
op pic is actually from pony website
Uncharted didnt start it
Look at games like FFVI and Chrono Trigger people call them GOAT just because of story
>>340142173
You stated my point and then said it wasn't a point.
The medium is focused on interactivity. Stories don't require interactivity to be told. Using an interactive medium for the sole purpose of narrating a story to the player is asinine.
>>340142249
>If a book wants to try and be more interactive, it shouldn't be judged on it's story!
>If a movie wants to try and be more of an audio experience, it shouldn't be judged on plot!
God damn it anon.
>>340139442
Go back to /co/ you filth.
>>340142413
I know you're just frustrated that I won't reply to you anymore, but I know you just won't hear any of it, you're one of those gameplay apologists that play nothing but MOBAs and online shooters
tell me, do you play DMC4SE? the king of action games in terms of gameplay?
do you play fighting games?
>>340140987
A more accurate analogy would probably be looking up team stats like win/loss, super bowl histories, scores, and other sub-surface stuff.
And a good story can make a good game, even if the gameplay itself is sub-par (See /v/'s general love of Spec Ops: The Line, an otherwise bland as fuck TPS with a muh feels story) Now if the gameplay is blatantly absent, thats a different story.
Also see, VNs, Zero Escape, et al.
YOU FAGGOTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE POSTING TEENAGE ROBOTS FUCKS
>>340139023
Sorry I like a story some times you nigger
>>340142407
And you want to judge all games in the exact same way, which is retarded. It would be so pointless to criticise a game for not having something that it wasn't trying to have in the first place
>>340142401
Why do you think you get to decide that?
>>340142532
What is this even supposed to mean? Are you implying that every book/film is judged on its story?
>>340142576
and yet here u are fapping away to jenny on /v/
>>340142465
People call them GOAT because the gameplay incorporates the story. It's gives a sense of writing a bit of the story yourself as the player rather than having events narrated to you, and then you kill some monsters. The stories in those games immerse the player's motivations to play the game rather than act as a "in case you were wondering why you're doing all this shit" announcement.
>>340142617
the time of memes is at an end.
video games are rising up again
>>340142596
Not that anon, but I agree with him. Story of games needs to take the back seat to the gameplay. None of us are saying that games shouldn't have story (Hell, Carmack even says it is expected that story should be there, just that overall, it isn't crucial to making a good game), just that it shouldn't be the first thing that people think of when they talk about games.
>>340142514
>The medium is focused on interactivity
No, interactivity is unique to games. You just want it to be focused on interactivity for some reason
>narrating a story to the player
It doesn't even have to be like that, and again you're ignoring the unique advantages that games have when it comes to telling stories
>>340142676
Because I'm not gonna waste hours of my game struggling to play a game if the gameplay is atrocious. You've failed the most fundamental part of a game, why would I spend my time just for the story?
>>340142676
Books, yes.
I may be wrong about films (I know a lot of films that are really great on their visuals alone). My analogy is crap. let me fix it
>A movie trying to be an audio experience shouldn't be judged on visuals.
Games with fantastic gameplay but actively offensive-to-listen-to terrible stories are still great games. Games that play unplayably bad, but with great story/writing will never be good games
However, I will always look back on games that give serviceable gameplay but great story/writing/chracters/worldbuilding with greater nostalgia and timelessness than games with just pure gameplay.all that said uncharted is a pretty fun game, though the writing/story for it is schlocky as fuck so I don't know why people think of it as anything other than a dumb, video game version of Indiana Jones
>>340142778
This point has been made but that fag doesn't care.
>>340142405
>because they wanted to do it that way?
Then why haven't they done a film or a book if they wanted to do that? Why not choose a medium better suited at that?
>well it worked out well for them and their game was really successfull and well liked, even here on /v/, so obviously they did focus on something right
I said I enjoy story-driven games, they can still be good games, but they'll never have a story well paced as much as a film or a book because gameplay gets in the way. Neither they'll have a gameplay as good as other games because otherwise the story results even more badly paced.
>obviously their potential lies in telling a good story
go write a book.
>listen, there are plenty other games for you that focus on compelling gameplay that you can play
>trying to manipulate every game company to only make the games you like is beyond retarded
It's becoming more and more prevalent. And it's attracting people that don't enjoy videogames. They enjoy films. And films aren't videogames.
Again, I didn't say videogames MUST NOT have a good story. But gameplay should always come first, otherwise you'd better use another medium to tell your story.
Now you're going to ask me who I am to say that gameplay should come first and we'll do a full circle.
>>340142808
>for some reason
Oh geez, it's almost like there should be an incentive to continue playing a game.
>>340142596
>I won't reply to you
>unless it's to say I won't reply to you
Glad that you're still ignoring any argument I've made, but I'll entertain your own.
Obviously I must be an ASSFAGGOTS autist if I don't think story trumps gameplay as a focal point. The only ASSFGGOTS I played was LoL during its beta; and it was an easy game to drop when Riot decided to open their market by, yes, making the game a more casual alternative to DOTA. I haven't played an ASSFAGGOTS since 2008.
>tell me, do you play DMC4SE? the kind of action games in terms of gameplay
Haven't played it, but I'd give it a go. Last DMC I played was DMC3, and it was a very good game in terms of gameplay; and I enjoyed its story as well.
You seem to run on this zero sum logic that if gameplay is more important than story, then it must be that the story isn't at all important. It's more complex and nuanced than taking your black brush and your white brush and slathering paint everywhere.
>>340142778
and why do you get the notion that I'm arguing story over gameplay when it comes to "being a good game"?
I'm arguing a balance, either can make a game great, either can make a game bad, there is no set ranking of importance or anything, games can literally do E V E R Y T H I N G and be good at what they're doing without having to rely on artificial regulations made by people who just enjoy one thing over the other
games should have both gameplay AND story, and I cite again DMC3's final boss fight, if the story wasn't what it was the final boss fight would be way less impactful even if the gameplay stayed largely the same
>This game is great
>lists only one advantage
Sorry, your game isn't great until it excels in several areas.
>>340142808
>again you're ignoring the unique advantages that games have when it comes to telling stories
Again, you're ignoring that a bad gameplay + amazing story doesn't use this advantage.
>story doesnt matter gameplay is king!!
>EVERYTHING LOOKS THE SAME I HATE THE [color present in the game] FILTER AAAUGH!
Well /v/?
I'll always prefer gameplay over story but I still need to defend this game, even though the combat was ass and the puzzles were almost entirely pushing blocks and you were literally invincible during the boss fight, which is completely nuts, because the story was just too good
>>340139475
fun is too subjective
Your definition of fun may not be my definition of fun and vice versa.
I think rock climbing is fun as fuck, but some people may find it too intimidating and strenuous to be enjoyable. Someone may find slot machines fun, but I find them inane and a waste of money.
>>340142978
this whole post is just you telling people what to do and what not to do with their free time
literally stop liking what I don't like
the answer to all of your questions is "because they want to and can", end of story
>>340143086
Because you don't need one in order for a game to still be good, the inclusion of a story is nice especially if it's enjoyable and has fun characters, however it's not a necessity. It could be the most bare-bones thing in the world and as long as the interactivity aspect of it is great, it won't mater.
>>340142891
People give morrowind shit for it's battle system a lot but I also used to see it differently. The system mostly gets hate for being so visually unappealing whereas oblivions is pretty much the same thing but every hit registers and it's a tad bit more shallow.
Morrowind to me is fun when you approach every battle as a puzzle wherein you attempt to beat a stronger opponent using the game mechanics no matter what the cost. It's amazing how powerful the opponents you can beat at a low level are. Starting the game and getting beaten to death by slaves on the road to suran until discovering ways how to kill gods hundreds of hours later blew me away and it still does.
>>340143291
Wasting a potential good story in a video game medium is not the way to go if you cannot back it up with gameplay. You can have the most tear jerking story on grand symphonies but if the game is a slog to play, it is shit. The only genre I argue that story is a must is RPGs. Most other things is fair game.
>>340143178
what about good gameplay with amazing story? would the cutscenes trigger you? trigger you so hard that you'd pretend the gameplay is shit?
>ITT: stop liking games I don't like
there's literally more games made for you than you could ever play in your life and you keep arguing theoreticals on what games should and shouldn't be despite just being the average consumer with no insight into the industry, game design or writing
>>340143291
>i can't refute your argument, so I'm just going to pout
>>340142827
Why are you assuming that all narrative focused games will have shit gameplay? It's more often kept minimal.
>You've failed the most fundamental part of a game, why would I spend my time just for the story
They failed what you think is the most fundamental part of game. The "most fundamental part of a game" is whatever the developer chooses for their work
>>340142868
>Books, yes.
I guess you don't read much
>>A movie trying to be an audio experience shouldn't be judged on visuals.
Are there any examples of this? If the guy just wanted to make an audio track that was meant to be listened to along with a simple visual, then I don't see anything wrong with judging it based on what it was supposed to be.
>>340143197
forgot pic
>>340143448
>shouldn't be
That's not what the fucking argument is you stupid faggot. They can have whatever story you want it to, but they have have to be interactive.
>I don't like story in games, therefore no game should have story and instead make their gameplay magically better
"gamers" think devs are perfect machines, right?
>>340143446
That would be close to ideal. Nobody here thinks that combining good gameplay with a good story is bad, or worse than stand alone good gameplay.
Are you a wall IRL? Because I've developed this nagging feeling in the back of my mind that I'm trying to explain very simple concepts to a wall.
>>340143005
Yeah and that incentive can never be the story ever, because that's just so stupid + for retards
>>340143559
now if you look at this post you will see the average consumer with no insight into the industry, game design or writing
>>340143483
The most fundemental part is the gameplay, it's in the fucking name. Video Games.
>>340143591
I feel like I'm talking to the biggest retarded idiot in the whole world but that's okay because I'm sure you're a good guy and just misguided when it comes to video game opinions on the internet.
>>340143624
If you look at this post you'll see a failed Hollywood hack that think he knows what he is talking about and wants to push is views on a medium he begrudgingly got into.
>>340143291
This is a poor way to say
>you are wrong because I say so
Good argument.
I'm not telling anyone what to do with their free-time.
>"because they want to and can"
We're arguing if story should be considered so important when judging a videogame enough to consider it good only for the story.
Yes they can. But are they making full use of all the aspects of the medium?
No. They're not. In fact, they're partially ignoring the one aspect that makes videogames ACTUAL videogames.
And since they're doing that you JUDGE their game with that in mind.
"Is this book good?" "Yes, I enjoyed flipping its pages. They're nice pages."
That's a retarded way to judge a book, isn't it?
>>340143178
>bad gameplay + amazing story doesn't use this advantage.
Not necessarily, they can still do stuff like branching story lines if the gameplay is "bad". Like TWD, so many people love that game, but the gameplay is awful QTE shit and braindead puzzles
>>340143679
You're clearly are the example for that.
>>340143616
A perfect story isn't incentive to continue playing through bad gameplay. As I've already said, a good game will have gameplay and a story that when viewed by a person will compel them to play that game.
A perfect story + poor gameplay would compel a person to view that game as played by someone else, so that they can get that perfect story without wasting their own time with the poor gameplay.
At that point, the game becomes very little more than a movie; which indicates a poor use of the medium.
>>340143483
>I guess you don't read much
Bullshit. A great book should have a story that reflects themes about society, human nature and nature in general or actually be entertaining.
>Are there any examples of this? If the guy just wanted to make an audio track that was meant to be listened to along with a simple visual, then I don't see anything wrong with judging it based on what it was supposed to be.
I wouldn't know too much, maybe some experimental film, but you have to have the visuals match the mood you are trying to do. Film is mostly a visual medium to tell stories or even themes. Simplifying what film does well instead of playing to the strengths of it is retarded. Same with gameplay vs story in games.
>Captcha: Select the street signs
>The entire thing is one big street sign.
>>340143679
You couldn't more obviously be an angry little man who has wandered too far from their echo chamber.
>>340143957
I was actually the nice one, since walls are less intelligent than retards.
>>340143653
>it's in the fucking name. Video Games.
Oh yeah, I forgot they were called that
>>340143846
>A perfect story isn't incentive to continue playing through bad gameplay
>no one has ever played through something that was boring just because they cared about the story, ever
>>340143880
> A great book should have a story that reflects themes about society, human nature and nature in general or actually be entertaining.
By "story", do you mean plot?
> you have to have the visuals match the mood you are trying to do.
Yeah you're right, we have to look at how all the elements of a book/film/game/whatever work together to achieve what the creator wanted it to achieve, so we can't ignore gameplay in a narrative game - if the gameplay segments detract from the story then that'll be two elements that aren't working together. But narrative games aren't inherently bad
>>340140095
>The primary objective of a video game is compelling gameplay.
In generalized terms, maybe. The primary objective of any specific video game is whatever the creator intended it to be; whether it be tell a story, provide compelling gameplay, teach a lesson, or whatever else.
In the same vein, the primary purpose of novels in general are to tell a story, but the purpose of a specific novel may be to provide a political or philosophical point, or recreate a period of time, etc.
Or the purpose of a specific film may have been because the director wanted a way to force some actress to give him a blowjob on camera.
>>340143749
>I'm not telling anyone what to do with their free-time.
you are quite literally trying to say exactly that, devs should not focus on story in games so they should instead write a book
>We're arguing if story should be considered so important when judging a videogame enough to consider it good only for the story.
oh we are?
because all I'm arguing is that there is no hierarchy of story and gameplay and that a game can be good for either one of these, best if both
also, those analogies are hilariously bad
>Games are fundamentally different from every other medium!
>I know! I'll use a book analogy!
>there are games with good gameplay that are ruined due to their bad story
>there are no games with good story that are ruined due to their bad gameplay
checkmate gameplay fagsgames should just have both, why lower your standards in either depratment for any game
>>340144628
>The last of us.
Then there are games with both lackluster.
>The Order 1886.
>>340144747
>The last of us.
>bad gameplay
it's decent at best
>The Order 1886.
agreed
>>340144567
Did you read the OP?
We are talking about what we should judge a game on and if story is such an important factor that it can make the difference between a good game and a bad game.
>there is no hierarchy of story and gameplay
But a game with good story is still a game, right? And if it's a game we judge it based on what games can and cannot do, and what they do best.
Yes the analogy is bad. It was more a joke than an actual argument.
>>340140641
Undertale is quite lacking in the gameplay department, as expressed in earlier threads. All aspects expected of RPG combat has been gutted (equipment, items, skills, party members) and its touted shmup gameplay is also linear and casualized so that people who normally play RPGs would still be able to beat it. Genocide route is the only route with bosses that give any real challenge.
What Undertale does have is good interactivity. >>340140095 implies gameplay and interactivity are the same thing, but it's not. Games have so many elements to them that gameplay now refers to a specific subset of interactivity as opposed to the entire experience, usually the combat. For example, nobody refers to navigating equipment menus and storage boxes as gameplay, but it's clearly a form of interactivity. Undertale is good (until reaching Hotlands) at how the game interacts with the character's decisions. Grillbys is the pinnacle of this design. Every boss you spare until you reach town will appear at Grillbys to play a card game, and their dialogue changes based on who's still alive, all of them oblivious to the truth. Who you kill can mildly influence a later cutscene. Speaking of cutscenes, the game almost encourages you to experiment, as the game's neutral endings will naturally lead you wonder what would happen if a certain character wasn't alive to take the throne. Unfortunately, the interactivity within the game begins to fall apart here, as outside of editing the ending dialogue there's very few ways to manipulate the world and discover new paths. Hotlands is exceptionally guilty of this, being such an awful place to walk around there's an elevator to skip all of it. What carries the game is its interactivity with the player itself and the developer's understanding of the sort of things players do. This secret, for example, is something you'd only find if you were looking for a secret passage to a specific platform. That's where Undertale shines.
>This game is great!
>Why?
>It's fun!
>>340145103
>literally MGRR
>>340143195
Graphical prowess isn't as important as being a) aesthetically consistent and b) not an eyesore to look at. It doesn't have to beautiful, it just has to be not ugly.
>>340145103
This.
I had fun with a friend playing Dead Island laughing at how shitty it is.
>>340142081
Sounds like a good reason to me.
>games should be just gameplay
>people who care about story should just read books
Is that an actual argument that people have?
>>340147817
But it's in the name! videoGAME not videoSTORY, dumbass
>>340142081
Seems like an accurate description of /a/ a few months ago.
>>340147963
so it's okay for a game to be cutscenes only because it's IN THE NAME
VIDEOgame, right?
>>340145035
You mong, interactivity is gameplay. It's the parts of the game which the player controls.
>>340148839
No because we call them "games" not "videos" for short, fucking retard
>>340147817
You retards all do the same zero sum bullshit.
A game should be gameplay first, story second. This doesn't somehow mean that a game should be gameplay only, story never.
If you're misrepresenting arguments, then fuck off back to l eddit/t umblr; where your bullshit gets thumbs up or whatever shit.
>>340139023
>This game is great!
>Why?
>because i casually like it
an actual crime i'll tell you
>>340139475
why does /v/ (by /v/, i mean the majority of users) hate fun?
Tetris has my favorite history
>This game is great!
>Why?
>Because LoL is the most played game
Entertainment is the sole greatest aspect to a game.
If the story is engaging, that's fine. If the characters and dialogue are enjoyable, good. If the gameplay is fun, that's ideal.
If a game is boring, it's not worth your time.
If you enjoy playing the game, it's good.
This isn't a hard concept.
>>340150529
>You have to play the games for the reasons I tell you because I say so
>>340150636
You should play a game because you enjoy playing it.
"It's fun" or "The story is good" is enough to recommend a game.
This isn't a hard concept.
>>340150765
People can and do play games for whatever reason they want, not necessarily enjoyment.
This isn't a hard concept.
>>340142291
>my opinions are facts!
Never change, /v/
>>340150876
You wouldn't honestly recommend a game you didn't enjoy on /v/. You'd just call it shit or complain about some nitpicked issue or something.
