So now that the dust has settled, is The Old hunters still the best Expansion pack ever made?
Yes. But stop making this thread.
>>339821480
Nope, Even Artorias of the Abyss was better and that wasn't anything special.
>>339821754
I thought TOH was way better than AotA
>>339821825
That's fine. Both have 2 good bosses but I prefer the setting, gear and level design of Artorias of the Abyss.
>>339821480
Yes.Post YFW "Ah... you were at my side all along"
>>339821754
But Artorias of the Abyss was shit aside from bosses
Zones were mostly linear, especially the forest and chasm sucked fucking dick and didn't have any good level design. I think you need to replay AotA
>>339822208
Exactly how I feel about ToH.
if you're an underage consolefag who first got into gaming with bloodborne, sure
>>339822437
All dlc is cancer fellow """""""old fag"""""""
I still haven't finished Bloodborne. Cleared amygdala and logarius but I am just after the red moon. 40 Str build(I know I fucked up)
Should I restart?
Also how do I access DLC? I bought it from sale but haven't had the chance to play it.
>>339821754
>AotA
Royal Wood is a shit area. Bosses are all good.
>ToH
Hunter's Nightmare, Research Hall, AND Fishing Hamlet are all among the best areas in the game. not to mention all 5 of the bosses are really great, with two of them being god-tier.
>>339823128
Nothing wrong with a str build dude. You can complete the game with any weapon.
Once you've got the DLC you get an item from the messengers in the Hunter's Dream just like when you get the starting weapons, you can't miss it. The item description will tell you what to do with it.
In fact some of the str DLC weapons are some of the best in the game.
>>339823128
nothing wrong with a 40 str build dog, you can make that work with a ton of weapons, especially the DLC ones. Don't think you have to restart.
go to the place where you got the second set of Hunter's gear outside of the Cathedral Ward lamp and stand there for a few seconds.
>>339823269
We're arguing about preferences here really, but I think research Hall is the only good area in the whole expansion. Rest are too short, especially fishing hamlet which was visually the most interesting one and you ended up going through it in 15 minutes and find everything there is to find.
AotA had same issues with length but they were not as bad as with ToH and I prefered Royal Woods and Oolacile Township over anything in ToH.
>>339822101
>gear
Nigga what? The Old Hunters had some of the best weapons in the series. Holy Moonlight sword, Saif, Church Pick, Whirligig Saw, Rakuyo, Bowblade...
What makes it truly great is the Playstation™ exclusivity. It just won't feel right on any other platform.
>>339821480
Not even close
Yes. I hate AotA shills, the only reason that DLC seemed so good was because of how mediocre Dark Souls 1 got towards the end
>>339823936
Hunter's Nightmare, while technically a reskin for it's first half, is aesthetically one of the pleasing areas in the entire series. Only thing I can think of that matches it is that one amazing area that I've seen screenshots of in Dks3, Ihyrll I think. Nothing in the game rivaled exiting out of that cave and looking up at the eye of the blood drunk hunter in the sky behind the astral clocktower. Royal Wood didn't have anything that compared to that.
Fishing Hamlet is also fantastic and I just think it doesn't overstay it's welcome. It's short and sweet, with good enemy variety, good loot, and amazing atmosphere.
Ludwig did nothing wrong
>>339825914
Best boy.
>>339822208
Wow sounds exactly like Old Hunters
>AotA and OH
>great bosses, bad level design
>DS2 Crowns Trilogy
>great all around
It's time to apologize, boys
>>339826906
>OH
>Bad level design
Is there a more pleb opinion?
>>339821480
Ye.
In fact, BB even has the best fan art.
>>339827113
>recycling base game levels and duke's archive, also completely linear
>good
Apologize.
>>339826906
DS2 DLC is far from flawless, in fact it still follows a lot of the main game's shitty design, the art direction also still look empty as all fuck with few exceptions, and the main enemy repeats through all of them, with an elemental variation.
It just feels like a non-shitty extention of DaS2, which isn't saying much at all.
>>339821480
Overpriced for what you get but what you get is fucking incredible.
>>339827407
please end you life, Dks2 sympathizers
your game is trash and so are your argumentative skills. your DLC has some of the worst rooms and areas in the series. Brume Tower is garbage aesthetically from the inside and contains some of the most offensively undetailed rooms ever, with disgusting flat textures and the same terrible lighting from the base game. Iron Passage isn't even accommodating to melee builds and has another horrendously offensive reuse of a boss, something Dks2 is great at. Frigid outskirts is horrendous and ugly, with the same "add more enemies to make it harder without giving the player tools or abilities to deal with these situations" mentality that the rest of the game follows.
and fuck, that one fucking room. went to my steam profile to fetch a screenshot just to show how terrible it is. This fucking room is such outrageous bullshit. fuck Dks2, fuck it's DLC, and fuck you you fucking Dks2 apolgist memer.
>>339827407
you fucking stirred up the beast now nigger
bask in the shitty ugliness of your game
>>339827407
> and duke's archive
Go home Superbunnyhop, you already got blown the fuck out by your own fanbase
>>339828197
You probably just run into that room trying to hack away at everything.
>>339827407
not to mention, Hunter's Nightmare is only similar to cathedral ward in it's first 1/3rd before it completely diverges, and looks fucking amazing and finishes with the best boss in the series.
and if you really think that research hall is a rip off of duke's archives just because they both have platforms on both sides of a spanning area, well then, there really is no hope for you.
>>339828197
>>339828292
but does your game have bonfire aesthetics? or get different in NG+?
no? fucking memezaki
Apologize.
>>339828197
The coop routes (Iron Passage and Frigid Outskirts) weren'y even developed by From, they were Namco interns since Namco thought that areas made specifically for coop in like a day were a good idea. Theyweren't balanced around solo and were never meant to be played solo. They're still awful but juat pointing it out.
Best DLC for the best game
POTTERY
O
T
T
E
R
Y
>tfw even Superbunnyshill (the biggest Witcher fanboy I've seen) acknowledges Bloodborne as the best current gen game
>>339828197
How can you not figure that room out?
>enemy who shoots lava out of his pits every few seconds
>idol that Nagasaki's one side of the rook if you get close
>undead carrying gunpowder barrels that you can herd and direct into fire for massive explosions to take out groups of enemies
Literally only a toddler with an extra chromosome couldn't figure this shit out.
>>339828524
I played them, and finished them. How was I meant to know they was co-op areas?
>>339828489
>different in NG+
Yeah all those extra enemies and red phantoms, sorely needed. A big spider shows up early. Some bosses drop an extra Souls. WoW. The rings were good, and they're in DS3.
>>339828694
B while Weidman really likes BB he didn't think that highly of the DLC
>>339828765
The big idols in the rooms before hand and developer messages saying 'HEY THESE SIGNS ARE FROM SOEMWHERE FAAAAR AWAY WONDER WHY THEY'RE HERE HMMMMMMM WONDER WHY'. They said prerelease that they were coop areas so if you only got into the series semi-recently then it's understandable.
>>339828975
Which further confirms that he's always throws in some random contrarian opinion to prevent people from thinking he just parrots whatever he hears (which he does do).
His assessment of Bloodbornes DLC was so wrong and objectively false. Even his own fans were slating him in the comments section.
>>339828407
as opposed to what? Cheesing enemies with ranged attacks from a distance like a little bitch? The game is not accommodating to all builds, melee users get fucked throughout certain parts of the game, the balance is horrendous. for a game you fags praise so much for having so much build variety, half of it isn't even viable. Every enemy in that room is aggroed almost immediately and buffed by the ashen idol. it's ridiculous and terribly designed.
>>339828489
>aesthetics
you means "ascetics"? do those fix the terrible bosses, or just allow you to fight them again? seriously, I can count the good bosses in Dks2 on 1 hand. Maybe less. if I wanna refight some actually good bosses in bloodborne, I go help some niggas out as a selfless confederate, or beat the game and play it again.
>>339828524
really doesn't excuse the piss poor design, regardless of who made them. Sunken King was the only remotely good DLC, hindered by shitty enemy variety and terrible lighting once you reach inside.
>>339828710
i'm willing to eat some humble pie and say I never attempted to herd the barrel carriers into the room, I'll be sure to try that next time i try to play the game, although I've gotten far past that now through brute force.
>>339823128
str build is fine, especially with the beast cutter you get near the beginning of the dlc
>>339828710
Nigger, you gave no argument why that room is good. Its just another ganksquad like the many others in the game.
>>339829049
Yeah only got into it june last year.
>>339829276
I didn't say it was good I just said it wasn't difficult to figure out.
>>339829324
Fair enough then, the coop routes are pretty much universally considered bad ideas. I've never seen someone unironically try to defend them.
>>339822301
>>339826704
>Research Hall
>linear
maybe you should play it first, talk shit later
Why yes, OP!
Not only is Bloodborne the greatest game ever made, but it also has the greatest expansion of all time!
And to top it off, all this is only available on the greatest console of all time, the PS4!
>>339829380
That other guy didnt say he could not figure it out, he just said it was a bullshit room.
I'll just leave this here
>>339821480
Nope Conquerors exist
I find PTD better than OH also.
>>339829518
Just because you go up rather than straight forward doesn't mean it's not linear.
Just apologize already.
>>339829507
>weebnigger
the worst of the worst
TOH > AotA > Crowns
>>339821480
PTD still is the best
>>339828197
>>339829769
>Bloodborne losing to Ori
>witcher 3 losing to Rocket league
Fucking Neogaf had a better GoTY listing that this shit show.
/v/'s taste is unbelievably bad. Bloodborne deserved to win
>>339830171
You were doing great until
>Bloodborne
You exposed yourself.
>>339821480
>the best Expansion pack ever made
Nigga that ain't Lord of Destruction.
>>339829769
where's the shill that always posts cities skylines in bloodborne threads now
>>339830247
>Bloodborne
Why? Because I think Bloodborne should have won?
Why is my opinion seen as "exposing myself"?
>>339830171
>Bloodborne losing to Ori
nothing wrong with that
>witcher 3 losing to Rocket league
again , nothing wrong with that
i prefer W2 alot more than W3.
>>339830480
>nothing wrong with that
Screencap your copy of Bloodborne with timestamp
>>339829769
>That final thread where all the assmad Bloodborne fans were losing their shit over Bloodborne not being in the finals
>All that finger pointing that /v/ is in love with the Witcher series and shills it 24/7
>Witcher ends up jobbing to a low budget multiplayer game
Is there a worse community on /v/? Even Undertale fans fucked off pretty hard after a short while.
>>339830572
it's because bb is babbys first souls game. they're so used to playing garbage that an above average game is seen as a masterpiece to them.
>>339830542
>Screencap your copy of Bloodborne with timestamp
Oh you are one of "those". Back to /bbg/ you casual piece of shit.
>>339829276
It's a puzzle room. The "gank squad" is the punishment for not solving the puzzle correctly. The game has shown you barrel carriers that explode on fire, it's shown you idols that power up enemies, it gives you a one-way drop into the room and several vantage points so you should know not to rush in. It's a shame BB and DaS3 don't have any similar puzzle rooms, just dodge and mash R1 lmao
>>339828975
Yeah it's weird considering how much he gushes over Lovecraft in the other Bloodborne video and then doesn't comment on TOH's fishing hamlet, which is literally Innsmouth.
>>339822110
>>339830542
Didn't think so
>>339821480
No, not unless you are really sheltered in your gaming experience.
It's not even the best DLC/EXPANSION in Souls, that has to go to Artorias of the Abyss just because of it's consistency, it has four great bosses that don't reiterate on the mechanics you find in the actual game, and all present unique and challenging gameplay scenarios for the player.
Comparatively, Ludwig and Orphan are some of the best bosses in the series, Orphan takes my position for the hardest, but, Living failures, despite their good lore and position, still felt kind of iterative of celestial emissary, by their very nature, Maria felt iterative of Humanoid boss fights, and Laurence, who takes my position for the third worst boss in Bloodborne, both aesthetically wastes an incredibly important character through his reskinned visuals, asides from the third phase, and is mechanically iterative of the games beast bosses through this, apart from his third stage, he doesn't really do a lot to set him apart, it feels like the developers got lazy, and just tried to make a hard boss as cheaply as they could with a huge health pool and aoe's on a ton of his attacks post phase 2.
The NPC moments were one of the most disappoiting parts of the Old Hunters, Saint Adeline is the standout, and she's certainly a refresher over the many shitty npc's like Adella in BB's base game, but she still leaves none of the huge memorability factor and impression that Chester in his Machiavellian glory, or Hawkweye gough, the stoic and surprisingly noble sounding giant, his wonderful cutscene and lines following, "a truer shot was never loosed".
In addition, TOH's world did not flow very well organically, it didn't interconnect like Artorias's DLC, and suffered as a result.
And in comparison to expansions seen in the past, both pale to the best ever released, things like Blizzard's Lord of Destruction for Diablo 2, it's new act and huge changes to the game.
>>339830807
Didn't think so
>>339831091
> that has to go to Artorias of the Abyss just because of it's consistency
Kill yourself, Arotrias of the Abyss had for the most part two mediocre areas out of 3. Kalamheet, manus and Artorias were great bosses but Ludwig/Orphan were not only great but literally GOAT>
AotA only seems good because of how mediocre Dark Souls 1s final few acts were in terms of their design, art style and boss fights whereas ToH is fantastic despite Bloodborne remaining more or less consistently great throughout.
You're the faggot from /dsg/ yesterday who was getting BTFO, weren't you?
>>339831314
I fully explained why I thought your comparison was useless, due to Bloodborne similarly having huge quality and pacing drop offs in it's late game, especially with forbidden woods, byrgenwerth, yahar'gul, frontier, mensis, cainhurst, upper cathedral ward having either incredibly disappointing level design, reiterative level design, or shitty bosses, or both.
You can go read it again if you'd like, I'm not going to bother fishing it out.
TOH is good, but to claim it's the "best expansion ever made" is a sign of absolute lunacy.
>>339831584
I should add that it's also a sign of ridiculous short sightedness.
>mfw Orphan
started to fight him yesterday, wasted all my bullets.
I can get to phase 2, but then he spams out and I can't learn his moves because phase 1 is so tedious.
Should I equip all those visceral runes for backstabbing?
>>339831584
> "best expansion ever made" is a sign of absolute lunacy.
It's a sign of personal preference.
>especially with forbidden woods
Forbidden woods is a top tier level and you got literally shut out when you tried implying otherwise. Its map design was god like in complexity and variety (as it came in a moment where the victorian streets may have started to grow tiresome). Cainhurst is also the best optional area of any Soulsborne game
I remember you bitching about the "snakes" or some nonsense in the /bsg/ general, take your shit taste elsewhere faggot
>>339832146
On all the DLC bosses besides Lawrence and Ludwig, the parry heal one you get from beating the crow fuck is a godsend.
>>339832146
literally just parry his phase 1, it makes a moderately challenging phase ridiculously easy
You shouldn't be using and blood vials onn the first phase, some good moves to parry/backstab are the double circling mace move (backstab or parry), the overhead slam (very easy to parry).
The only to move to watch out for in his first phase is the running attack, or the goo throw, as they can catch you off guard.
In his second phase, you can either get used to waiting for an opportunity to attack, his slam combo's offer a good opportunity, and the last jump he does gives you a chance to backstab, and the other jump gives you a chance to backstab as well.
For his double throw, I usually just dodged backwards twice.
>>339831091
>did not flow very well organically
Artorias had some of the shittiest shortcuts in the game. Shut the fuck up, loser.
>>339832484
>>339832556
thanks, noted
>>339822208
>shit aside from bosses
In a game about BOSS FIGHTS. Holy fuck you're retarded.
>>339832384
I explained why I thought the forbidden woods had good level design in structural essence, but also why I thought it failed to be an interesting level, the repetitive visual theme, the beasts/villagers in the first half presented in similar encounter design to the game you've already experienced, the shitty encounter design with the smaller snakes, which gives the player no incentive to actually fight them, and the large snakes being both far too tedious in design to bother with, and far too easy to just run past, the fact that a pig is the final encounter moment in the area is pretty funny. I also thought the snake head men were shit, and unfun.
By comparison, I could easily say the dukes archives, tomb of the giants, and new londo are perfect areas, but I have huge fundamental design issues with them.
To me as well, Nightmare frontier feels just as unfinished as Lost Izalith does, despite the visual aspect of it being fairly well realised, the area is completely and utterly useless when it comes to the main game, the amount of useful items here is low, and prevents the area from ever being worth exploring on later playthroughs, in addition, it completely wastes the amygdala fight by presenting it in a bright sort of space, which completely detracts from the very threatening feeling the Yahar'gul and defiled ones offer.
>>339827247
Go back to deviantart you stupid faggot.
>>339833000
>but also why I thought it failed to be an interesting level, the repetitive visual theme, the beasts/villagers in the first half presented in similar encounter design to the game you've already experienced,
None of this is true.
>the shitty encounter design with the smaller snakes, which gives the player no incentive to actually fight them
Except for their potential gem drops maybe?
>and the large snakes being both far too tedious in design to bother with
Literally git good.
>I also thought the snake head men were shit, and unfun.
Literally how? They were fun with numerous attacks yet still had potentially enough moves to keep you on edge while being very beatable (their grab attack is a 1 hit kill potentially).
All of this is doing is showing me how shit you are at the game.
>dukes archives, tomb of the giants, and new londo are perfect areas
Ok, forget I said anything. Not wasting my time on you any longer.
>>339833150
Wew, pulled a nerve, huh?
>>339833000
Giant snakes are only tedious if you're a giant pussy. And the snake men are really good actually, because you have multiple options for dealing with them.
>>339833229
Thanks for proving that you are too retarded to even fully read my post.
>>339833000
>3 worst areas in Dark Souls
>perfect
>anything in any Souls game as bad as Lost Izalith
Stop shitposting
>>339829769
Yeah. I hope DaS3 DLCs will be just as good.
>unironically defending the cancer that was das 2
>>339833387
>>339833287
Literally the end of the sentence.
Are you bootyblasted so much that you can't even read the end of the sentence?
>>339833287
>Thanks for proving that you are too retarded to even fully read my post.
Nothing you've said is objective criticisms. All your complaints relative to the Forbidden Woods is "I got lost and rekt by some snakefags because i'm shit".
The cherry on the top of your giant pile of shit taste/opinions is the fact that you think New Londo, Dukes Archives(the exact moment Dark Souls 1 goes to complete shit due to its linearity and retconning of its own established rules) and Tomb of the Giants are even serviceable, let alone "perfect".
>>339833391
holy shit this is my ranking as well.
>>339833596
By comparison, in dukes archives, the level circles around itself and uses the revolving staircases in an interesting fashion to make later parts of the level flow into the earlier parts in a very organic fashion, however, the enemy design is both lacking and uninspired compared to what you have seen so far in the case of the crystal hollows (beast men, beasts), the mages are both tedious and frustrating to bother with (snake men), and the area relies on horde encounters in the case of crystal hollows, golems and pisaca's (snakes, beast men) rather than progressively difficult and engaging level based encounter design.
If you actually read the post, I said, "I could easily say", this is in comparison, to how on a surface level, you can just say the level is great without much argument, not that I actually think the levels are good.
What amazes me as well, is that people actually say the forbidden woods-central yharnam shortcut is amazing "mind boggling", the sheer amount of ways a player could find themselves returning to firelink shrine over the progression of the world was sevenfold BB's implementation.
>>339831091
Just curious, what bosses do you think are worse than Laurence?
I think he's absolutely far and away the worst boss in BB
>>339822110
>Been slowly taking my time with massive gaps in between play time of Bloodborne
>finally get to Ludwig yesterday
>8 tries later I beat him
My god......I don't even want to continue since I feel like nothing will even come close to that fight. Everything about it.
>>339834801
Chalice Dungeon bosses Maneater Boar and Brainsucker
>>339834801
Laurence can't be the worst boss in the game because of that soundtrack. Saves the entire fight really.
>>339826906
>DS2 Crowns Trilogy
>great all around
There were some fucking awful bosses, probably the worst in the entire series.
>>339821480
What so good about it? It's just more slashing through generic enemies until you get to the boss fight where you use the same tactics you have used in the 10 previous ones.
That's not an expansion.
>>339833968
>By comparison, in dukes archives, the level circles around itself
In Dukes Archives you have:
>A boss you HAVE to die to and literally cannot damage (even with ranged)
>a gimmick invisible floor level that serves no purpose and ulitimately hinders what could have been a fun area with unique enemy types to fight
>Are encouraged to do something the game has discouraged you from doing throughout of the game (hitting an enemy through a wall)
It's just a farce of a level and in level design. Its linearity is pitiful and all round it's just a mediocre level and kickstarted the pitfall of Dark Souls 1s decline to mediocrity.
Bloodborne saw nothing anywhere near as bad as Dark Souls 1s worst levels.
>>339835187
I agree that blue smelter, lud and zallen, and the graverobbers were uneccesary.
Elana and Aava were okay
Burnt Ivory King, Fume Knight, Sir Alonne and Sinh were all pretty great though familia.
The level design is the true joy in the DLC's though.
I'd go as far to say it's the best in the series.
Starcraft Brood War ushered in eSports on a much larger scale than anything before it.
Diablo 2 LoD is literally the Michael Jordan problem of ARPGs.
Wc3 TFT is indirectly responsible for training a generation of designers about development and even whole genres.I miss Old Blizzard.
>>339835585
I think Elana and Sinh were both fucking awful as well. Elana was just Nashandra with an inferior moveset who had to summon a literal clone of a previous boss to make it a decent fight, and Sinh was just Kalameet except he spends way more time in the air and breaks your weapon if you hit anywhere but his chest.
>>339835545
Meanwhile in mensis you have:
>an utterly frustrating and poorly thought out frenzy gimmick at the entrance, followed by enemies with bloated health pools and giants that you are better off running past, spiders, and a small floor area full of useless enemies, then an elevator up to an awful boss, then mergo's loft, which is both painfully short and underutilised for such a big area potential when you look at mensis from outside, but also has one of the most tedious and poorly thought out side routes in souls history, the winter lanterns aren't engaging on a fundamental level in either a fun or challenging way, they define tediousness.
And wet nurse is a let down as well
I absolutely think that levels like Upper cathedral ward, mensis, frontier and yahar'gul are all just as disappointing as dukes archives, tomb of the giants and New Londo because they are littered with poor game design decisions.
>>339829138
The DLC isn't that good though. BB was my fucking GOTY last year and even I thought the DLC was a little underwhelming. Boss fights are basically not beatable on first try (something Bloodborne had managed to avoid in main game) and Laurence and Orphan of Kos is some major bullshit. Even high level is not easy to get through TOH. It feels like it wasn't thoroughly playtested.
>>339836040
I agree with you on some points, the difficulty was a bit weird, Ludwig's ceiling attacks were a bit too unpredictable, and his charge was absolutely unnecessary and had the same problems as Ebrietas (whereby dodging and hitting even a tiny side small part of the boss would cause full body damage for some retarded reason), and Laurence is just completely and utterly poorly made.
But I felt Orphan was generally a good fight, even if he was really difficult.
>>339823128
You're good. Have you gotten the wheel or Ludwig's holy blade? Both of them are great for str.
>>339836408
Don't get me wrong, I still adore BB and I think the DLC is worth it 100%, but I think compared to the main game its more flare and less polish. It doesn't feel good to beat the bosses, it feels like I got lucky.
>>339836497
>not using kirkhammer
>>339822110
Moonlight Greatsword is my main weapon in Dark Souls I, when this got pulled out in BB, I honestly got chills. Everytime Ludwig says "My guiding moonlight..." I get hyped.
>Finally just beat Ludwig level 4
>Music picks up just when I'm finishing him off with a visceral
I'm giddy.
>>339823128
> 40 Str build(I know I fucked up)
STR is very good in BB
Nigga if you dump points in Arcane too you have the best quality build in the game
Also use the kirkhammer, the good ol' wheel and the pizza cutter.
>>339823269
Enemy placement in Fishing Hamlet sucks donkeydicks, son. I just ran through this shit.
>>339836992
Not him, but all my stats are at level 40. BL is like 190 or something. Is it worth leveling up anymore or should I stop?
>>339834953
>"Ludwig? Manus? i piss on everyone".
Cheeky, sack of - good -for- nothing piece of cheap spamming, fuck-mouthed, rotten cunt.
Even after finally beating the piss out of this thing after months i'm still jaded by how miyazaki really wanted this fucker to be the end all, fuck all faggot of the game and by proxy, even souls as a whole.
>>339837213
I wonder if they will make a harder boss in the two ds3 dlc. I wouldn't put it past them.
>>339821480
Sorry m8 that would be Frozen Throne
>>339827587
Take this
>>339837213
EEEEEEYAAAAAAAWWWWW!
>>339836008
stop parroting what george says jesus christ
>>339837553
>you will never be in the recording studio when they were capturing the audio for the OoK fight.
God that must have been surreal.
>>339836040
oh my god
form your own opinion and stop getting so influenced by your favorite e-celeb
>>339838238
>stop parroting what george says jesus christ
Except that's how I genuinely felt.
Thematically the area felt like an unnecessary extension of Bloodborne's main game's themes.
A nightmare area could have literally been "anything". Absolutely anything.
It just feels wasted, with shitty bosses and shitty enemies, mergo's loft especialy is awful.
>>339838340
> stop getting so influenced by your favorite e-celeb
I wasn't aware I was an e-celeb
>>339821480
It is. For Bloodborne that is.
>>339838397
>. Absolutely anything.
and it was a river of blood leading to ludwig, a madhouse and a fishing hamlet
what did you want a circus?
>>339838397
>It just feels wasted, with shitty bosses and shitty enemies
ok shitposter confirmed
>>339836008
So what you have is something that rekt your shit?
Your straw grasping truly is hilarious to watch
>>339837079
You're far past the point of no return. Even 150 is past the meta. You won't be co-oping or invading anyone. Might as well just keep going.
>>339839142
That's the dlc though, I was more describing the shittiness of the nightmare areas on release.
Even then, research hall isn't that amazing, and fishing hamlet is short as fuck and underutilised.
Imagine what they could have been if they were actual "nightmare" areas, areas which instiled true dread, or otherworldly oddness, if they truly felt like weird extensions of the great ones influence.
>>339839224
Micolash is shit, wet nurse is disappointing, the winter lanterns are some of the most poorly designed enemies in the series, and apart from the hybrids in the loft, it feels like reiterative rushed content in terms of enemies
What's left to understand?
>>339839312
If you can't see how the winter lanterns are poorly designed, then there's no reason to take your opinion seriously.
If an enemy is designed so the best way to fight them, is to never fight them, without that being a core facet of the games design like Amnesia or something like that, then they are awful in design.
>>339822208
Why do people call the levels linear as though that's bad? Dark Souls 2 is probably the least linear, but also the worst. I'll take a large segment with interesting moments and good enemy placement over the jumbled mess 2's levels were.
>>339821480
Didn't play it, but I played the base game and I don't see how some dlc could make it much better.
Also Frozen Throne and Age of Conquerors are easily the best expansions that exist.
If it has to be DLC then it goes to muramasa rebirth
>>339840170
People in this thread have most likely not played pc expansions
I'm not even that sure why Old Hunters is even referred to as an expansion, it's much more like a DLC by most games standards.
>>339840047
>Dark Souls 2 is probably the least linear,
2 has the least amount of shortcuts in the series
>>339833391
I agree with your ranking. It's a shame that so many people get blinded by nostalgia that shouldn't exist that they can't even notice the very blatant improvements.
>>339839728
>That's the dlc though, I was more describing the shittiness of the nightmare areas on release.
oh ok then i thought the dlc ones
yes they could have been something more clever instead of a generic building i agree
>>339840346
I meant in the way that it opens up very early.
>>339840429
literally every path is locked off until you beat the next both. There is no sequence skipping.
>>339840559
you have over 9 different first bosses. even if you dont count the tutorial bosses in the other games as the first thats still more than double the options of any other game
>>339840682
>you have over 9 different first bosses.
Gonna need some proof there son.
>>339840682
>more than double the options of any other game
That's blatantly false
>>339821480
>tfw youll never beat ludwig
>>339840939
He must be counting tutorial bosses.
>>339840791
Not him but
>last giant
>ornstein
>dragonrider
>whatever boss is first when you drop down the hole. Royal rat vanguard?
>pursuer
I'm really stretching there but I think those are all the "first" options available. I fucking hate that game but I do acknowledge that it's the most open ended early on.
>>339840791
I don't like dark souls 2, and I'm not the guy you responded to but:
>dragonrider
>old dragonslayer
>the rotten
>rat vanguard
>najka
>the pursuer in technicality
>last giant
>darklurker in technicality
>twin dragonriders in technicality
>aava
>lud and zallen
I might be missing some, who knows
>>339840791
>last giant
>persuaders
>dragon Rider
>dragon slayer
>the rotten
>rat vanguard
>dragon rider duo
>najka
ok I exaggerated there's 8
>>339841285
>>339841237
or not. forgot about dark lurker and forgot when the dlc was accessible
>>339841107
Ornstein can't be a first boss, you have to beat Pursuer or Last Giant to get to him.
NOT TO MENTION, progress is completely linear. Old Dragonslayer is optional with no real reason to beat him outside of 100% completion. It grants no progress. Dragonrider is mandatory unless you beat pursuer.
>whatever boss is first when you drop down the hole. Royal rat vanguard?
You can't drop down the hole until you get the cat ring which is locked off for a while.
>>339839728
>If an enemy is designed so the best way to fight them, is to never fight them
Literally every mob in any Souls game is designed this way.
Your arguments show no issues with Bloodborne but rather issues with your own personal skill level at handling these specific enemies.
Literally git gud
>>339841237
>najka
>darklurker
>twin dragonriders
>aava
>lud and zallen
All preceded by previous bosses, what the fuck are you on about "first bosses".
>>339841285
And Dark Souls has 7. That's not quite double.
Saying Dark Souls has 1 because of the tutorial boss is silly, the game opens up after 5 minutes.
Living Failures is the best "cinematic experience" boss in all of from games.
Prove me wrong.
>>339841491
Can't you go straight to Heide's right off the bat? What does Last Giant or Pursuer unlock that allows you to access ornstein? Pretty sure he can be taken on first.
>>339840332
>3 new areas
>fuckload of new weapons/armors
>5 bosses
>12-15 hours of content
>not an expansion
>>339841498
You can get through the Shrine of Winter if you farm a million souls without killing any bosses, duh. This totally makes Dark Souls 2 the most open-ended.
>>339841237
by comparison, and not including tutorial bosses:
dark souls 1:
>pinwheel
>four kings
>quelaag
>taurus demon
>gaping dragon
>capra demon
>gargoyles
>sif
>moonlight butterfly
>stray demon
dark souls 3
>Vordt
>Dancer
Bloodborne
>Cleric Beast
>Father Gascoigne
>>339841285
>the rotten
nigger are you serious
>>339841613
Oh, I actually didn't know that. That's fucking retarded and monotonous and I don't see why anyone would ever do that outside of NG+, but interesting nonetheless. Guess you could theoretically take on Drangleic Castle first on NG+. No one would ever think to farm that many souls on a first play through though.
>>339841664
You can't fight Gaping or Four Kings first, you you can't get to Gaping from the back entrance to BT and you need to kill Sif to get to 4K.
I have question for Bloodborne veterans. Just finished my first playthrough as quality with Beast Cutter. What is most fun weapon to roll around with doing an arcane build?
>>339841749
The number of souls you need goes up for NG+ too, not sure by how much.
>>339841851
space brocoli and parasite of kos
>>339841851
Holy Moonlight Sword, obviously.
>>339841931
might be 2 million, but that's not too hard
>>339841951
Anything decent to hold me over until then? I doubt I could just roll into the DLC and take out the orphan as soon as it becomes available.
>>339841610
NO. Jesus christ you DaS2 defence forcers are fucking retarded. You need a key to get to Heide's Tower. Or you need to beat the Pursuer.
>>339841612
>12-15 hours of content
What?
The entire thing took me around 4-5 hours and that's even with a heavy amount of deaths on Orphan and Ludwig.
Hunters nightmare was over with quickly, and relatively straightfoward in progression, despite being the medium sized area in the dlc the research hall took me the longest to get through, and fishing hamlet was the shortest, the second area was useless.
Laurence, Living failures, Maria were all in the 0-5 death range, whereas ludwig and Orphan were 15+, there were only like 7-8 new armour sets.
They were more generous with the 10 or so new trick weapons, and 4 firearms, but this is still just "good" for a DLC, it's not exactly on tier with an expansion, and if anything only demonstrates the relatively mundane nature of the trick weapons on release, nothing felt like the bloodletter, amygdalan arm or kos parasite.
>>339842159
That's either new in Scholar, or just not true.
>>339841497
Considering you seem to believe that winter lanterns are well designed enemies, there's no reason for me to even continue this discussion.
>>339841498
Najka is blocked by a statue you can get rid of through black gulch's item.
Darklurker is the shrine of winter souls thing
aava and lud and zallen similarly
>>339842132
Almost any weapon with fire or bolt gems
>>339822110
>>339842159
you need a key to go to harvest valley, Heide's tower was the first area I went to on my first playthrough.
>>339841802
Yeah, you're right, I haven't played it in a while.
Still a good amount of bosses though.
>>339842132
tornitus and boom hammer
>>339842194
I never played scholar numbnuts, there's a statue blocking the entrance in the gate to Heide.
>>339842487
There definitely is not. Not sure what you're confused about.
>>339842474
I still need to use the boom hammer, I've got mine at +10 but I haven't actually used it oncemy main character has like 12 weapons at +10
>>339842132
You can kill Eileen for the burial blade
>>339842767
Eileen unlocks Blades of Mercy
Killing Gehrman unlocked Burial Bladewhich you can use in NG if you die on Moon presence or hunters mark out
>>339842763
i have every weapon at level 10 and the only one i didn't use or letss ay mastered is the logarius wheel
which is one of the best weapons
>>339821480
>best expansion pack
Maybe it's the best souls dlc but there are way better expansion packs that could have been considered complete games like rdr undead nightmare or shivering isles.
>>339842894
I always get the names mix up sorry
>>339842175
>
The entire thing took me around 4-5 hours and that's even with a heavy amount of deaths on Orphan and Ludwig.
And that's just an outright lie
https://howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=30315
>>339838329
The screaming is from stock sounds. I can't find it anymore but someone posted a video of some cartoon screaming sfx and one of them was the exact same one.
>>339841664
Bloodborne doesn't have a tutorial boss
>>339842959
I can't use logarius wheel on my main character because it needs too much strength.
>>339842363
>Considering you seem to believe that winter lanterns are well designed enemies, there's no reason for me to even continue this discussion.
Says the guy who described New Londo, Dukes Archives and Tomb of Giants as "perfect".
>>339835545
>Are encouraged to do something the game has discouraged you from doing throughout of the game (hitting an enemy through a wall)
What part of the game was that?
>>339843108
https://howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=20578
>7 1/2 half hours, 10 for completionists.
And yet I can very easily be done with the Artorias of the abyss DLC in around an hour and a half.
I wouldn't be surpised if half the time ratings for the old hunters came from people who hadn't played the game in 6 months and forgot everything, because I can genuinely not understand how someone could spend so long in the areas, nightmare was relatively linear in terms of progession, and fishing hamlet was short.
>>339822110
I fucking came
>>339843368
The part where you can't attack Seath and have to hit an enemy through a gate to obtain the key.
>>339843376
>And yet I can very easily be done with the Artorias of the abyss DLC in around an hour and a half.
Suuuuuuuuuure
>>339843225
this boss weakness is its face and you can easily stagger him with executioner arm
>>339821480
Sunken crown was the best in terms of quality, the only problem was that it was short
>>339843281
Once again, you have proven of your inability to have read my entire post.
I said New Londo, Dukes Archives and Tomb of the Giants are fundamentally flawed in the same sentence, detracting from the "I could call them perfect" remark.
Are you blind?
Honestly.
New Londo especially has tons of moments where the level connects to itself, and along with firelink shrine, is a centerpiece interconnection for the entire game world, but, the horde enemy design with ghosts, and lack of a bonfire makes the entire experience less enjoyable and far more tedious.
>>339843550
I know, I have killed him probably 20x
Anyone wanna help me take down geherman? I really want to beat bloodborne before work today. No password I'm in hunters dream
>>339843751
>having trouble with Gherman
dude don't play the DLC. You'll get wrecked.
>>339843751
if you still need help in an hour or so I'll be off work and I might be able to help you
>>339843854
Sounds good
>>339843645
You fucking described them as perfect, that's literally the end of it. Just because you said "despite their flaws" doesn't mean you didn't imply that they were even good when they are outright shit areas.
>>339843751
>gehrman
literally just parry
the fight is easy as piss
>>339843914
The original criticism was directed towards a poster claiming the forbidden woods was an excellent level because of the level design.
I then claimed I could call the areas perfect, but that would be wrong as they are fundamentally flawed, just as I felt forbidden woods was when it came to an engaging and motivating effort of game design.
>>339843751
How do I get summoned in I literally have never bothered to do any of that
>>339844113
> forbidden woods was an excellent level
And it is an excellent level, so excellent everyone of your complaints could be summarized into "I didn't know how to effectively beat this enemy so its shit".
>>339833000
I very heavily disagree with you on the point of Nightmare Frontier. Sure, there're hardly any useful items there but the level design and combat situations are wonderful and the whole area is just rife with exploration and danger at every corner. Nightmare Frontier is fucking awesome through and through. It's not really worth doing more than once because a big part of the fun is in the suspense and surprise and, like it's been said, there's not really anything useful in there, but damn was it fun my first time through.
I also feel like the bright daylight theme made for a huge and welcome change to the dark and dreary mood throughout the vast majority of the game. It actually felt more unnerving to see the world as so bright because it felt like it didn't belong and it worked well as an alternative version of Nightmare of Mensis.
>>339843512
Oh. I usually hit enemies from behind thin walls on purpose if I am getting ganked.
>>339833391
I say that DS3 is greater than BB, DLC or no, but overall that ranking is spot on.
30/18/25/16/9/6
Currently at Brygenwerth maining Ludwig's holy blade. Should I raise arcane? I don't know where I'm going with this.
>>339821480
That's not Opposing Force
Just wasted some insight summoning a guy who got one shotted 10 seconds into the fight.
>>339843914
Hey would you like it if I gifted you hooked on phonics? I believe it can help you with your reading problem.
>>339821480
first playthrough here
>level 80ish
>50 str, 20 end 40 vit + rest on starter
>kirkhammer+10
will i survive?
>>339841107
>>339840682
Never thought of it that way but yeah, it's a good point. It's also worth mentioning that while Huntsmans Copse is clearly meant to be a mid-game area, you can skip right to it by only defeating one boss, Dragonrider. Then, after Skeleton Lords, you're right at Earthen Peak and on your way to a late game area, The Floating Volcano Castle.
Granted, there's no true "sequence breaking" since you HAVE to beat specific bosses eventually but it's impressive how many different paths you can go down. I'm sure this was very intentional to make multiple player's first playthroughs at least slightly different from each other. Too bad it didn't help the actual game.
>>339842487
>>339842159
>calls others names
>spreading misinformation
You may apologize at any time.
>>339844978
I'd get arcane to 15.
>>339844368
Nightmare Frontier was a great place.. until you are actually there. There's nothing to discover and nothing of value it adds other than atmosphere.
>>339821480
Not even close. It just doesn't have enough content. I mean compared to 90s expansions with all the content that matched the quality of the base game or better as well?
Hell in comparison this game's "expansion" is nothing but a measly DLC at best.
>>339845384
Yes.
>>339842132
fire saw spear is insanely broken and easy to gem
>>339821480
I unintentionally started ng+ and got mad at the new balanc, then left bloodborne until the dlc came out
I made it to ludwig then gave up
All the new items/weapons so far are ridiculous dumb wacky anime shit
should i head back in and keep playing?
I keep getting the same dude on the geherman fight and he's garbage.
>>339845623
That's a reality of modern game development. It's like criticizing older expansions for not being as graphically impressive.
>>339845548
The point is in the area and the journey itself. Don't think about what you could find in terms of items. Do you play Mario Bros and get upset when there wasn't a single power up in a level? Nightmare Frontier is a great level in and of itself. Who cares if there's a great weapon hiding in there? It's worth playing through just for the experience.
I just started replaying Bloodborne with the DLC for the first time. I hope they never make a BB2, because my heart couldn't take it. This game is 2spooky4me. Also, the beginning is pure suffering with a Skill + Bloodtinge build. No gud weapons until you manage to kill Amelia and Simon or clear Cainhurst.
how do you fight the humming dudes with many eyes without frenzy basically insta killing you?
>>339826906
If you honestly think Eleum Loyce has better level design than TOH areas you have mental problems.
>GO IN A CIRCLE
>GO IN A CIRCLE AGAIN LOL, HOPE YOU LIKE POINTS OF NO RETURN
>>339845929
Carry sedatives. It's also possible to avoid frenzy damage if you time a visceral with the moment your bar is filled.
>>339836040
>Boss fights are basically not beatable on first try (something Bloodborne had managed to avoid in main game)
But I beat every boss my first try except for Orphan.
Go fuck yourself.
>>339846060
What do sedatives do? You don't take frenzy damage? Shit man I wish I had known about this the first time I tried beating those creeps.
>>339846228
Resets your frenzy buildup.
>>339845929
You mean those giant brain things? Gotta rush 'em instantly and kill them very quickly. Thankfully they get staggered easily but that doesn't help with frenzy buildup. If you can't survive a single frenzy and your frenzy resistance is simply too low, then you're going to have a very, very hard time. Of course, sedatives are helpful after you kill it but there's not much point in using it if it's still alive.
>>339846228
it just depletes the meter. like eating moss when poison hasn't procct yet.
>>339846060
so this is he only way, huh. thought you can dead-angle them somehow
>>339821480
I'm honestly kind of tired of hearing the souls games DLC as being "expansions". You people must not be old enough to know what an expansion really was.
These "expansions" for souls games only have about 1/5 the content of the base game AT BEST. Most have less than that. No the best 90s expansions had almost 1/2 the base games content. Some had more like Frozen Throne or Brood War.
This "expansion" meme needs to die. You got ripped off, we get it. Stop showing your blatant buyer's remorse by shilling so hard to justify your purchase.
>>339845817
That's bullshit though. It's a perfectly valid criticism. They only get away with it because people like you accept it. And as for visuals, those old games were the best visuals available... and yet they still provided as much content while meeting the industry standards at the time.
>>339845884
>The journey itself
Why can't people say the same about lost izalith then it's the same thing. You go down some funky hills into a toxic pit/lava pit and run from enemies you can ignore to fight a gimmick boss.
>>339843225
Chalice dungeon coop is fucking awesome.
>>339846393
The industry is a very different place these days. This is what an expansion is now.
>>339845542
Okay that's just for hunter's bone right?
So I'm aiming for a more or less quality build of 40/25/9/15 using luwig non elemental. Is this at all retarded?
>>339846393
they're still good tough, even if not as extensive as they used to be. beats the shit out of single mission or weapon dlc you get elsewhere. in modern day, those are the closest you get to actual expansions. we got ripped off compared to the 90s, but that we got anyway thanks to inflation.
>>339846653
It's still not an expansion... no matter how much you want it to be. It's a simple DLC pack.
>>339846574
Industry standard at the time didn't require the same kind of resources they do now.
>>339846393
Except ToH was a true expansion as it basically doubled the weapon count, added two transformations, and could be accessed pretty much right at the start.
It fleshed out BB in a way that AotA didn't manage to do for DaS1.
>>339843751
>How the fuck are you expecting help with no password?
>>339846657
You also get Beast Roar and Augur at 15.
Okay seriously can anyone help me fight Gherman I keep getting the same fucking guy who rushes in and gets one shotted
>>339822110
Was rock hard tbqhwyf
>>339845623
> I mean compared to 90s expansions with all the content that matched the quality of the base game or better as well?
Such as?
>inb4 he compares some fucking 100+ hour long sandbox to what is essentially a classic Castlevania like game
Bloodborne offers a great amount of content and it's literally not only better than the base game but better than the entire series.
>>339826906
>gabk squad boss
>reusing smeltor without giving him anything new besides a color
>shit areas that are meant for co-op
No
>>339827247
Pretty cool photo senpai
>>339846393
> Stop showing your blatant buyer's remorse by shilling so hard to justify your purchase.
Way to out yourself PCuck.
>>339846393
>>339846845
I'm just going to remind you soulborne fans that Armored Core, made by From, had bigger expansions with their titles:
Armored Core 2 = Another Age
Armored Core 3 = Silent Line
Armored Core Nexus = Nine Breaker = Last Ravens
Armored Core 4 = 4 Answers
One can argue these are whole games but they were expansions especially when carrying over your data.
>>339821480
>le expansion meme
good goyim
>>339847480
Bigger=/=Better, or DaS2 would be the best game in the series.
>>339844652
Screencap your copy of BB with timestamp
