It had to happen sometime.
/v/ just hates furries, many of whom latched onto Undertale. For the game itself most around here would say, at worst, that it's overrated, which is absolutely fair, a lot of people actually thought it deserved Game of the Year.
It's just a fun Earthbound game with decent battle art and bad overworld sprites, but with great music and a fun story. Neat combat system too, for an RPG.
I like it but I understand why people get mad when it's brought up.
reminder to stop making undertale threads without mentioning the name of the game so it doesn't get through my fucking filter
Reminder that there is literally no reason to dislike a single player game just because the community is dogshit
Polls have shown that the majority of people on /v/ that played Undertale actually liked it.
The shitposters were just shouting loudly.
>>339678353
Reminder that the first post is always right.
>>339678001
We don't actually despise it, it's a solid 7/10. But with all the furfags pretending it's the greatest game of all time, we had to hate it to reach a balance.
>>339678462
The community isn't dogshit, though. It's just the Tumblrites that piss everyone off. I have never run into an obnoxious Undertale fan outside of the Tumblr posts here.
And I have never even played the game, I have no stake in this matter. The worst I see is le ebin Humantale bullshit.
>>339678001
>Reminder that this is every undertale thread that has ever been on /v/
>reminder that no 2 people have the exact same likes and dislikes
>>339678897
Fair enough, but I can see why the amount of praise of it on /v/ in the first few weeks pissed people off
t. someone who liked Undertale a lot
>>339678987
From what I understand, it's a legitimately good game, with the only real weaknesses being the length and the graphics, which is why it's $10 instead of $40 or $50.
>>339678001
Dota
>>339678974
Are you trying to tell me that everyone on /v/ doesn't have the same interests and opinions regarding all subjects?
>>339678974
>>reminder that no 2 people have the exact same likes and dislikes
Don't talk to me or my son ever again.
>>339678353
But Undertale also has a lot of "Fursecutors" as the furfags call them. That So Sorry guy was fucking mocked and derided so much he made not one, not two, but three Tumblr posts whining about it.
The only real furries in the game are the goat people and the dogs. Even then, most people only like Toriel because of the le ebin THICC meme, and Asriel because they're gay/necrophiles/both.
>>339678353
>a lot of people actually thought it deserved Game of the Year.
tbqh it was a strong contender, 2015 was ass
>>339679321
>>339678001
At least Undertale had lore discussions in the threads. At least Undertale talked about their actual game. But neo-/v/ likes Overwatch, a clone that only has fap bait going for it.
>>339678481
Considering that a lot of people have it filtered, I wouldn't call it majority opinion.
>>339678001
sticker star
>>339679080
15 hours is pretty good for $10
>>339679398
To be fair, the only real contenders were Splatoon, Bloodborne, and Xenoblade Chronicles X.
>>339679480
You mean 3-4 hours
>>339679480
That's my point. It's a decent length for the price. Sure, other games can offer more for less, but that doesn't really change much about the game itself. Just because Terraria is worth 800-900 hours for $10 doesn't mean it devalues other cheap games.
>>339679403
I have an idea.
How about we stop talking about Undertale at all for awhile?
>>339679480
>15 hours
Eh, doing a full pacifist run is about 7 hours, genocide's maybe a a few more
>>339679760
i almost put 12-15 hours, that would've been more accurate
genocide took me a while because i'm bad
>come into thread hoping for some hidden gems
>nothing but undertale
And this is why I hate this gameeven though it wasn't bad
>>339679740
But there aren't even that many threads anymore. Certainly more threads than Bloodborne or Xenoblade Chronicles X, but those games are both niche on an already small market that most people aren't a part of on /v/ anyways.
Splatoon, Super Mario Maker, and other 2015 games still get talked about just as often.
>>339678001
gameplay sucks
watered down timed hits + watered down bullet "hell" + watered down whatever you'd call that dialog thing = diluted gameplay
>>339679740
Well, we don't want to spread the fire.
>>339679760
Genocide is actually pretty short. Maybe 3 hours, excluding Sans.
Although there's little bits of story content you wouldn't find in either of those runs, so it depends on just how much of all those little dialogue changes you want to bleed out of the game.
I think Sans' best judgement is when you befriend everyone, but kill Papyrus.
>>339679881
>Certainly more threads than Bloodborne
no. soulsborne gets spammed on this board 24/7 (but that's somehow ok)
>>339679871
>Hate the game because people are calling it shit and others are saying it's not really shit
This is why people hate the "Undertale hatebase". You're more annoying than most fanbases, even the retarded ones like Biodrones.
It's fucking reverse fursecution.
>>339679889
>trying something different is bad
C'mon, man
>>339679979
Who cares? The point of the thread isn't to defend Undertale, it's to list games that /v/ hates
>>339679979
it's the /pol/ effect, 4chan's achilles heel
>>339680031
I'm all for trying new things, but when the result is bad the result is bad anon
Other M
>>339679871
It's inevitable, sadly. You can't really start a thread with Undertale and not expect it to be about that. If the thread hangs around long enough, we might get more posts pertaining to the intended topic.
I see the same shit on /co/. They can't really talk much about Hussie's work without it turning into a Homestuck thread. Ironically, it's easier to discuss Hussie's other works in a Homestuck thread since nobody derails the discussion into Homestuck.
>>339680110
If people didn't call it shit and instead posted games "/v/ hates" (which is a retarded premise in itself), then this thread wouldn't be half split between defending and justifying Undertale.
>>339679979
You are the reason people hate, and will continue to hate, this game. Quit being an unlikable obnoxious faggot if you don't want people hating what you like.
>>339679429
This is the poll everyone refers to. It wouldn't be filtered.
>>339679979
>edgy hate fanart
This shit exists, and their's more of it.
>>339679881
Undertale is still brought up on a daily basis here, usually by fans who keep trying to get /v/ to admit they liked it because apparently they're incredibly insecure about liking the game themselves.
Considering how long /v/ would just constantly spam the board with Undertale threads, from both shitposters and fans, I think a bit of time without any Undertale threads at all is warranted. Unrealistic, but warranted.
>>339680532
hating something to spite someone else is a waste of time and energy
>>339680532
No reasonable person hates the game you retard. We don't care what autists like you think. We aren't being "obnoxious", it's cunts like you who just call a game shit and then complain when people call you out on it.
Learn to accept differing opinions without whining, you retard. People like you are what pushes people to like things more, because they want to make you mad. That's why everyone in America is voting for the "Make retards like this guy mad" candidate. Same thing for vidya. All your doing is softening peoples opinions on Undertale, and pissing off people on the fence.
>>339680605
>hatebase
How to spot a furry with over 200 hours Undertale and a 1.5GB big fanart folder.
>>339680616
post more
>>339680616
>comparing it to the actual fanart
>>339679661
>wife
GTFO Assgore
GET THAT ASS FRIENDZONED!
>>339680748
>No reasonable person hates the game you retard.
Hooooly shit
>>339680748
>No reasonable person hates the game
You're falseflagging, right? Please, god, tell me you're falseflagging.
I don't know about "hate," but I got the impression most of /v/ found Hatred to be mediocre if not disappointing.
I've enjoyed it a lot for what it's worth.
>>339680748
>No reasonable person hates the game
>>339680772
>Im fucking plying
The Overwatch hate base is what annoyed me into even checking out that game in the first place. I wrote it off before every one of you retards pissed your pants in unison. Ditto Undertale. I didn't even try the game until a month ago, and I knew absolutely nothing about it. It was the constant, obnoxious hatebase that pushed me in that direction.
I don't go to Tumblr or /vg/, so all I see are the vocal, annoying "haters" on /v/, whining like fucking babies whenever they see something they don't like. That's every single Undertale thread I see.
>>339680943
Say what you will about Toby, he has foresight.
>>339680963
>>339680891
>>339680889
If you think you're reasonable, you're not.
I'm sure there are reasonable people out there who dislike Undertale, but only retards actually hate it.
>>339680748
>No reasonable person hates the game you retard.
>>339681041
Just stop, dude. I'm full-on Undertale trash but please just stop.
>>339681069
It's true though. Nobody reasonable hates a single player game because of a fanbase. Not even Sonic fans are obnoxious enough to warrant that.
>>339680748
>No reasonable person hates the game.
And there it goes
>responding to bait
Don't do it you fucking retards
>>339680918
Too boring.
>>339681126
>I'm full-on Undertale trash
Sure, whatever you say. I'm a #PS4missile now.
>>339680748
>>339681126
>>339681232
I, for one, identify as a combination inkjet-printer/copier/scanner.
I'm glad I could meet likeminded folk right here, on /v/.
>>339681193
It's not bait, though. I'm 100% serious. If you actually hate Undertale, you are not reasonable, this is a fact. I didn't like Undertale, but I sure as fuck don't hate the game. It's not bad enough to deserve hate.
>>339681330
Mate, you can hate whatever you want
Tastes are subjective, someone may have played the game and absolutely hated it
That's ok
>>339680748
>No reasonable person hates the game you retard
>>339681330
i hated undertale, i torrented it and played for about 30 minutes, the dialog, art and gameplay were awful and i don't like chiptune music, so i quit and uninstalled and i still hate it
does that really sound unreasonable?
>>339680748
this is just epic. congrats my man, +1 replies for you (or as we say on the chan, (You) xD)
>>339680605
>strawpoll
>reliable
dude really
I rig every strawpoll I see to prove how unreliable they are
>>339680748
>no ... person hates the game
>>339680748
uh >>339679889 seems pretty reasonable
>>339681494
>>339681417
Again, no one REASONABLE (key word here) hates the game. Dislike it, sure. It was short, the fights were easy, genocide was more work than it was worth, and it didn't really offer any incentive to play through the other routes, other than for fun. But to outright hate it is impossible for a reasonable person. Believe it or not, the game has upsides to counteract the downsides. It's not irredeemable like Sonic '06 or Battleborne.
>>339681628
>Missing out the KEY WORD of the sentence
>Poster count doesn't go up when this post hits
I wonder who could be behind this post.
>>339681693
>>339681517
>i don't like chiptune music
opinion discarded
>>339681864
>>339681693
>>339681494
>>339680616
>someone spent time making this
Literal autism
>>339681875
well that was a lie, i like original chiptune music not made for video games, but ost chiptune just makes me cringe
>>339681749
The only thing I care about in a game is the gameplay. Undertale has garbage gameplay. Explain how I'm unreasonable in hating this game that wasted my time.
>>339681864
>>339681661
It absolutely is not.
>Gameplay sucks
Not a legit complaint. It's completely unsubstantiated.
>Watered down timed hits
Are not a core component of the gameplay, and how exactly do you water down "timed hits". What the fuck does watered down even mean in this instance?
>watered down bullet "hell"
Again, what does "watered down" mean? The regular fights don't have too much bullet hell, but some fights, like Sans or Asriel, are legitimate bullet hell fights.
>Watered down whatever you'd call that dialog thing
How can it be watered down if it hadn't even been a thing that was common beforehand? There aren't any other prominent examples to compare it to and say it's watered down.
That post is 100% buzzwords. That's not reasonable.
>>339679889
Anon, please go develop a similar game with limited knowledge of programming and report back to us when you have a better feel for gameplay.
>>339681957
Why the hell?
>>339681749
>no reasonable person can hate the game i like
>but reasonable people can hate games i don't like
Are you really so oblivious, or is this some sort of elaborate bait?
>>339681959
>Undertale has garbage gameplay.
Undertale's gameplay is fun. More fun than OFF or LISA's gameplay by a long shot.
>>339681989
>but some fights, like Sans or Asriel, are legitimate bullet hell fights.
Have you ever played a bullet hell game?
>>339682015
chiptune in video games is too upbeat for me and it sounds disingenuous, i like depressing chiptune
>>339681956
>their's more
To make it worse someone thought it would be a good idea to add an edgy OC into them.
>>339681959
>Undertale has garbage gameplay
How is that a reasonable opinion to have? The fights were easy, but it definitely had good gameplay.
It's not reasonable to hate a game for one particular reason, either. I like good story in video games, but my favorite games don't even have anything beyond a basic "story" (Doom and Terraria).
>>339682012
>let's see you do better as an argument
are you actually serious
this is the kind of shit that gets made fun of all the time and you use it
>>339682081
I've beaten Touhou 8 - 11, minus 9.
>>339682135
Hard Mode when?
>>339682121
>video game chiptune music is "disingenuous"
lol. try your luck at >>>/mu/ but they'll probably kick you out too
>>339682206
>he can't beat PoFV
you what dude
>>339682128
And that's the end of this "fanart."
>>339681957
>>339682121
you managed to be dumber than this retard >>339680748, congrats
>>339682038
Are you? Because those games have legitimate, huge, glaring fucking flaws that severly impact them. Sonic '06 is outright unplayable in several parts, where you can fall through the level, or be stuck in an infinite loop (the Silver fight).
People have written entire, hour long reviews of the game, pointing out every single flaw in it. Undertale, for all its faults, is still playable and works just as intended.
>>339682121
We've got an edgelord here.
>>339682262
i never browse /mu/ why would i start now
>>339682121
>i like depressing chiptune
>>339682158
>states gameplay is shit
Do you have an appropriate response or will you just get shit on over and over by a guy who doesn't even understand C?
If you know what good gameplay is, it should be easy for you to make a similar game.
>>339682285
I didn't beat Yukari, so I don't consider it having been beaten. Just me, though. 12 I just gave up on because I had better games to play at the time, and I didn't have the patience to sit through Shou's gay lasers after dealing with Orin's bullshit the week before.
>>339682483
>PoFV
>Yukari
excuse me
>>339678897
The community is dogshit though. Within days there was no discussion left and it was just furry shitposting. It's not just tumblr, /utg/ was complete and utter cancer.
>>339682372
Of course I was right. It's like you people are stuck in your own little universe where you don't notice unreasonable hatebases pushing people to the other side.
It's a real, observable phenomenon. Of course, after having seen hours upon hours of people shitting on Undertale unjustifiably, I can't honestly say that I've heard a single reasonable opinion on why the game is bad enough to deserve hate.
>>339682325
>>339682529
>It's not just tumblr, /utg/ was complete and utter cancer.
>implying /utg/ wasn't just tumblr with a different posting style
>>339682518
PCB I mean
PofV is dumb unless you have friends to play it with.
>>339682409
edgelord, usually it's hipster
>>339682448
yeah, haven't you ever heard of WMD? i love his music but not really any other chiptune i've heard
https://wmdchiptune.bandcamp.com/album/melancholy
>>339682635
>I can't honestly say
OK then, I'll take your word for it :^)
>>339682690
>moving the goalpost
>I like this thing
>ok
>I hate this thing
>WOW YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO BACK THAT ARGUMENT UP I'M GONNA NEED AIR TIGHT PROOF THAT YOUR CLAIM IS VALID HATEBASE HATEBASE
die
>>339682742
Just look in this thread. Find me a reasonable opinion on hating Undertale. Most of it "I didn't like this one thing about it, so I'm """"justified"""" in hating it."
You have chiptunes guy and "but I just didn't like the gameplay" guy. Take your pick.
>>339682893
why is disliking the gameplay a bad reason for disliking the game?
>>339682832
>Goes from like straight to hate
This is where you've fucked up. It's not just a binary. You can dislike a game without hating it.
If you hate something, you better have a good reason for it. You don't have to justify not liking something.
>>339682386
I'm gonna break this down for you so try to follow along.
Hate is a strong feeling of dislike for something
Liking or disliking something is a matter of preference
Different people have different preferences when it comes to almost anything, including video games
Some people may strongly dislike a game because it is not the type of game they enjoy (i.e. it is the kind of game they dislike)
They could be said to hate that game because it is not something that fits their preferences, not because of some objective truth of the universe, because hate is a preference
All you've said, once again, is that people cannot hate the game you like without being unreasonable. Being broken or buggy are legitimate reasons to hate a game, but so is it just not being an enjoyable experience for you. A game being playable does not make it immune to hate. This is coming from somebody who enjoyed the game, by the way, you're just an idiot.
/v/ has cooled down on Undertale a lot. Initially it got a lot of hate for being popular. Only people who actively hate it on /v/ anymore are idiots who still try to do the "I le troll the you!" shit. Not to mention it was pretty obvious that people started posting Undertale threads all the time just to troll the people who hated it.
>>339682774
I literally saw people on tumblr discussing going to /utg/ to post more freely, it still seemed to be mostly Tumblr's audience in /utg/.
>>339683082
Go back to tumblr.
>>339682975
Because disliking =/= hate.
This is what everyone missed. There's no reason to hate a single player game if it works perfectly, is a reasonable price for the length, and doesn't do anything outright retarded like forcing you to fuck a faggot or never see the character again (DA2).
>>339682635
The graphics are inexcusably poor, the gameplay is hollow and repetitive, the writing is juvenile, and the theme is forced as fuck. The best its got is an interesting premise, a few songs in the soundtrack, and a few likeable characters (before their personalities are crammed down your throat over the duration of the game).
>>339683018
It's still the butt of a lot of jokes, but you're mostly correct.
>>339683018
>/v/ has cooled down on Undertale a lot
And yet it's flared back up again for some reason. We went through like 2 months of almost nothing about it and now there's Undertale threads at least twice a day again, did something happen or was it just a slow progression?
>>339682690
/utg/ is a bunch of thirsty nerds who only want to talk about fucking a skeleton and goat kid.
/v/ threads are about wanting to fuck a robot and a fish.
>>339683145
it's easy to grow people's dislike into hate if they are inundated with the thing they dislike in their favorite laotian basket weaving community center every day, which is what happens with many new releases
>>339683013
Listen here, idiot, there are different levels of justifiability. If someone says "this is the best game ever" people are going to call bullshit unless he can say why. If he can't, his praise is unreasonable.
Then why is it so hard to expect the opposite standards to hold true for hating something? You can dislike something justifiably. It just doesn't suit your tastes, or you didn't like the music, or the graphics turned you off. Fine. It's perfecetly reasonable to not like it for that. But there is no reason to actually hate the game. It works as advertised, it's cheap, it doesn't try and rip people off, there are no glaring bugs that ruin the experience, and it isn't made in the place of another game.
There is NO reasonable person who hates the game. As I've said, you can reasonably dislike it, but not hate it.
>>339683248
probably the yiik/knuckle sandwich/motherlike spammer who the mods won't just fucking ban already
>>339683248
Twice a day seems pretty common for most popular games. Even if they're a year or so old.
>>339683482
What is Knuckle Sandwich? The tumblr/SU version of LISA or something? The artstyle is extremely offputting.
>>339683378
Yes, but would you say that's reasonable? Even I realize I'm being unreasonable when I say I don't want to hear about Bloodborne or DS3. I just ignore the threads, even when they're everywhere.
It's easy to grow to dislike it over people talking about it and hyping it up 24/7, but that's not a reasonable opinion. It's a glaring fault in human psyche.
>>339683145
>There's no reason to hate a single player game if it works perfectly, is a reasonable price for the length, and doesn't do anything outright retarded like forcing you to fuck a faggot or never see the character again (DA2).
This is what kids raised on modern vidya actually believe. My god.
Your standards are so low you consider ordinary polish/quality and a fucking length/price ratio as things to disqualify the ability to hate a game.
>>339683212
>The graphics are inexcusably poor
Yeah. The battles have a cool artstyle to them though, but the rest of the game largely looks like shit
>gameplay is hollow and repetitive
I guess I never really felt that. I loved Undertale's gameplay and I've played bullet hells before. I was expecting something easy and I got that, along with having some near mechanics and some charming attack patterns that were pretty unique for the style of gameplay. I understand why you could see it as shallow though.
>the writing is juvenile
Eh, in most cases yes, and that helped with its odd tone, and a few places the writing wasn't the best (new home monster segment) but in other places it felt quite solid. True Lab, the Waterfall walls, Flowey's dialogue in Genocide, etc.
>theme is forced as fuck
Understandable, but I guess I just donmt find stuff like that too terrible.
Only real problem I had was that Alphys never got reprimanded for her mistakes. Sure her actions eventually led to the destruction of the barrier, but she needed to be taught a lesson from all of it about her lying and annoying tendencies.
>>339683569
I think it's perfectly reasonable for people to express their frustrations anonymously on /v/ as long as they're video game related, this website and the idea of anonymity behind it has always been about expressing the feelings that want to bubble up from inside you but are usually suppressed
>>339683212
>The graphics are inexcusably poor
You wot? They're pretty good considering it was produced in 2 years by one guy working off of only $55k in that time. Sure, it's pretty ugly, but not "inexcusably poor".
>the gameplay is hollow and repetitive
What the fuck does this even mean? "Hollow"? What are you on about. I played the game. Sure, it was repetitive if you went through the genocide route, but that was entirely the point. You don't expect the game to change up the rules on you, especially not when it's a 3-4 hour game.
>the writing is juvenile
More unsubstantiated claims. What's "juvenile" about it?
>and the theme is forced as fuck
No it isn't?
>(before their personalities are crammed down your throat over the duration of the game).
Nigger, you what? Most of the characters have less than 10 lines, and even the important main characters you only meet like 4-5 times throughout the entire game. How is that "forced down your throat"?
Come back with some REASONABLE opinions.
>>339683567
Another "Earthbound-ish" RPG, which pretty much blatantly copies it, not even just "inspired". It's infamous for constant shilling.
>>339683658
Get off the computer grandpa, it's time for your applesauce.
>>339683870
0/10.
Come back after you take Bait 101.
>>339683658
Because that was an unreasonable opinion before hand? You realize Undertale is more polished, higher quality, and longer than 95% of the NES library, right? No one hated them before, even though they could be sold anywhere from $60 to $200. Undertale is asking for 1/6th to 1/20th that.
You aren't reasonable to hate on games that you simply dislike. That's retarded and UNREASONABLE. I dislike plenty of games, I even hate a few, but Undertale has no reason to be hated when it is an innocuous little game that no one forced you to buy, and you the creator isn't even cracking down on pirates of.
>>339682663
>tries
nice joke.
>>339683930
We've really started getting a ton of Earthbound type games these past few years, haven't we?
I for one blame Yume Nikki for starting this.
>>339684054
I know his post was bait, which is why I only tore apart some of it instead of addressing the entire thing.
>>339683930
>indie game that's already way more popular than the creator wanted/expected
>shilling
what
>>339683870
How much do they pay you to shill here? I want in
>>339684123
You should probably blame Mother 3, which inspired Yume Nikki and came out almost a decade ago.
>>339684087
>Undertale is more polished, higher quality, and longer than 95% of the NES library
>>339679480
>15 hours
Thats almost 7 playthroughs of the same game
>>339684171
1/10, that's a little better, tugging on the lure is a good thing to practice.
>>339679760
You guys really took 7 hours for pacifist? I took like 3 or 4
>>339684240
Yeah, but Yume Nikki started the whole fan made game stuff. If we never saw the rise of indie stuff come around, Lisa and Undertale still probably would exist as freeware games instead.
>>339684203
What the fuck are you talking about? Calling someone retarded for their retarded post isn't "shilling".
>>339684246
It's true, though. Most NES games are less than an hour long. The only outliars are RPGs like Final Fantasy, and big budget games like SMB3. The original Metroid is only 4 hours long, and it was one of the longest NES games.
>>339683438
Hate is quite literally dislike to a greater degree. If you concede that people can dislike the game then they too can hate it.
All you're saying is that people's opinions don't count because you say so, which is fucking retarded because whether or not you like a game is totally based on opinion and not empirical fact.
There are plenty of people who hate Brussel Sprouts, they simply cannot stand the taste. You could get them a brussel sprout that embodied the platonic ideal of the vegetable, there is nothing at all wrong with it and it is absolutely flawless as far as brussel sprouts are concerned, and they still wouldn't like it because the thing they hate about it is fundamental to it being what it is. The same is true for video games. If there is a genre of video game you find no enjoyment, and even displeasure, in playing then that is a perfectly reasonable reason to feel hate towards it, no different than despising the taste of a food.
You do not understand this feeling because you do enjoy it, but your understanding does not dictate what other people's preferences are allowed to be. You cannot say someone isn't allowed to hate a particular food regardless of how vile they find the taste just because you yourself do not agree that the particular quality in question is a negative and not a positive.
I won't be responding further because if you don't understand at this point then you're beyond the help of anyone here.
>>339684123
>I for one blame Yume Nikki for starting this.
Why? Yume Nikki released like 12 years ago or something, we've only been getting lots of Mother likes after 2014, like Lisa, Undertale, and now the many new ones like Knuckle Sandwich, Yiik, Omori, and Mother 4.
>>339684240
Shut up. Yume Nikki was like 2004, Mother 3 was 2006.
>>339684087
>You realize Undertale came out in 2015 and is still barely more polished, h̶i̶g̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶q̶u̶a̶l̶i̶t̶y̶,̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶l̶o̶n̶g̶e̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶n̶ ̶9̶5̶%̶ of the NES library, right?
>>339683845
I don't disagree that airing frustrations is natural and reasonable. I started this with airing my grievances.
However, there's a difference between disliking something and hating something. A lot of hate is unjustified, and simply due to overexposure. It's not really a reasonable position to hate something just because you see it a lot. It's rather foolish, and something more people should admit to themselves.
>>339684087
Avoid capitalizing the buzzword of the thread, it spoils the bait.
>>339684397
That's a weak-ass attempt to play off an accusation of shilling. You should go practice in front of a mirror, it could help.
>>339684464
LISA is actually good don't compare it to the rest of the shit in that list.
>>339684547
there is nothing wrong with hating a video game for any reason, and so it goes vice versa
>>339684410
>Hate is quite literally dislike to a greater degree. If you concede that people can dislike the game then they too can hate it.
>What is false equivalency
Yes, hate is extreme dislike for, but that doesn't mean that hate isn't often unreasonable. Quit waffling on about shit you don't understand, you retarded absolutist.
It's a linear scale, not a binary. You reach a point on that scale where your like/dislike for something needs to be justified. Hating something unreasonably is the same as liking something unreasonably. You can do it, but don't claim to be reasonable about it. It's having your cake and eating it too, in that case.
>>339684464
nah, I used to stick around the freeware circles and there was a lot of Mother inspired stuff being made in that 2007-09 period.
Also a lot of Cave Story, which I honestly see a lot more of in Undertale than Mother.
>>339684679
Yes, but that's not reasonable, which is where everyone shit the bed. You can dislike something unjustifiably, and so it goes in the other direction.
>>339684613
Oh I know, I love Lisa, I thought it was one of the better games of 2014. If it had just slightly better combat I might've liked it a bit more than Undertale but as it is they're about even for me.
>>339684839
but I hate the game because of the bad gameplay, bad music, bad writing and furries and all of those sound reasonable
>>339684507
Yeah, but Undertale is literally made by one guy with art help from his girlfriend, as opposed to teams of people working on them.
>>339684547
I hate Undertale for its writing and gameplay. Even without the fanbase in the picture, the game by itself is pretentious and saccharine, and the gameplay is constructed in subservience to the story instead of the other way around, and I hate that.
>>339684938
Just calling the gameplay, music, and writing bad is unreasonable. You can say you didn't like them, but it isn't reasonable to say they're bad.
And there is the crux of the issue.
![maxresdefault[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Z3XRapB.jpg "maxresdefault[1].jpg")
>that complete cop-out of an ending
>literally no questions were answered
What the fuck
>>339684768
>Also a lot of Cave Story, which I honestly see a lot more of in Undertale than Mother
I never saw any of this. Besides the obvious Mimiga = Dreemurr family, none of the connections that those posts saying Toby Fox plagiarized Cave Story ever seemed to hold any water.
Mettaton crashes through a wall once but he has nothing else in common with Balrog
>>339684262
>7 playthroughs of the same game
Completing a pacifist run in less than 3 hours would be close to speedrun time
>>339684968
Another World was made by one guy without help from his girlfriend, much less a simplistic toolset useable by people with literally no knowledge of actual programming languages. So what.
>>339685202
The game is short as fuck you can literally just run from every battle in pacifist
>>339685026
>the game by itself is pretentious and saccharine
In what fucking way? Telling a story isn't pretentious you twat. That's a ridiculous position to take. It wasn't even really trying to drive home a message.
>and the gameplay is constructed in subservience to the story instead of the other way around, and I hate that.
How? I know that the adventure is subservient to the story, but the gameplay is not. It's a separate entity. You don't have to kill/spare exclusively, you can just carve your own way through the story, killing and sparing whoever you please. That's the opposite of what you're implying here, that the game bends the knee for the story.
>>339685026
>and the gameplay is constructed in subservience to the story instead of the other way around,
Toby has gone on record to say that the opposite is true. He constructed the battle system before anything else and branched out from that, the sparing mechanic was built first and then he came up with ways to incorporate the story into it.
>>339685071
why is it unreasonable? it's obvious little to no effort was put into the art, music or gameplay, as all three are styles that require the lowest amount of skill to produce: pixel graphics with no appreciable technique or depth, chiptune/electronic music, and combat that came from a newgrounds flash game
I don't like the story for reasons more tied to my preference because nothing about it held my interest or hooked me, and finding furries repulsive is again my preference
>>339685192
Of course it's not plagiarism. Anyone saying he plagiarized anything is stupid. However there are some pretty obvious connections there when you look at the games side by side.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpQsMFkzQNg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKRCbGdiLLQ
Papyrus is our Balrog, not Mettaton. Also even just the title is a play on Cave Story.
>>339685319
That's if you want to miss out on all the details the game has
Not judging, if you like to complete games very quickly that's fine by me
>>339685324
>It wasn't even really trying to drive home a message.
Not him but did you even play the fucking game? The message of saving and using mercy is literally the theme of the game, and it completely falls flat once you realize self-defense is a reasonable and logical reaction to external violence.
>>339685701
There really isn't any pacifist mentality message about the game. The only message it's trying to make is one about completionism.
>>339685701
>The message of saving and using mercy is literally the theme of the game, and it completely falls flat once you realize self-defense is a reasonable and logical reaction to external violence.
Did you play the game?
The self-defense argument is also pretty weak since you're basically a god. It's justified but also pointless.
>>339685561
>it's obvious little to no effort was put into the ... music
>chiptune/electronic music
Did we play the same game?
Maybe a quarter of the game's soundtrack was chiptunes, and even when it was it was extremely well composed.
>>339685561
>it's obvious little to no effort was put into the music
Toby Fox is an amazing composer you twat. One of the first songs in the game is in 6/4 time, highly unconventional for electronic music standards in general, and he weaves the leitmotifs of his music into fucking everything. Not only that, but his style of chiptune is unique, not very many people do swing-style chiptune music like in Spider Dance, or almost imperial-sounding chiptune like Metal Crusher (besides Mother 3).
Lastly, if you're seriously saying electronic music takes no effort, you're a fucking loon.
![e493782d6d4fce1606429d493c76c9aa[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/u6mjBzF.png "e493782d6d4fce1606429d493c76c9aa[1].png")
>>339685848
>>339685701
But the player and avatar are aware of their ability to constantly reset, and they know they can avoid violence.
Sans even poses a question that if you are entirely capable of going back and guaranteeing the best possible outcome where nobody has to die, are you obligated to do so?
You're allowed to say no.
>>339685701
>The message of saving and using mercy is literally the theme of the game
The existence of the many neutral endings and the genocide ending disprove that
>>339685561
> it's obvious little to no effort was put into the art, music or gameplay
How is that unreasonable? Toby put in a lot of effort into it. For a literal one person team, he put in a lot of effort, creating almost everything by himself.
Just because they're the easiest (and even that's very much debatable) to produce doesn't mean that it doesn't take a lot of effort to do so.
>combat that came from a newgrounds flash game
Combat isn't all of the gameplay. It's not like shmups and rpgs haven't been around since the early 80's. Undertale is the first to produce a marriage between both systems.
Pretty much the only thing that isn't subjective there is the graphics. They don't look the best, but hating a game because it looks bad isn't really reasonable unless the game was sold on its visuals. Undertale was never sold on its visuals, it was pretty much only going out on its battle system and story.
But I won't say anything about you subjectively disliking the stuff. That's fine. But there's a step between "this doesn't appeal to me" and "I hate this". It's the difference between a small wave and a tsunami, a mountain and a molehill.
>>339686009
Nobody has to, not nobody can. The selling point of the game was that you had the option
>>339685701
Except you can rewind time. Why would you kill people and continue onwards instead of finding a way of resolving the conflict without killing them? Is it because it was easy for you?
>>339686009
but they don't. the only reason to kill them is to see what happens (kill them all to get the true ending)
>>339686065
>they know they can avoid violence
But you really can't though. Violence finds you. Why is it only wrong when the player does it but when the entire underground tries to kill Frisk, including Asgore, Undyne, and debatably Alphys, they get a pass and are allowed to roam the surface? And your argument has no legal basis at all. If someone attacks me with a knife and I have a taser and a gun, I still have no obligation to use the taser.
>>339685701
>Pacifist endings
2
>Neutral/genocide endings
5+
You're free to choose whichever you like. The only message it's forcing is that about grinding shit out just to see numbers rise: a Skinner's box.
>>339686009
Right. Nobody has to die, but you of course you would kill them anyway, right? You gotta experience that genocide route and "100%" the game, even at the expense of its inhabitants.
Thats all the game is trying to say on the topic of "morality." It's not necessarily trying to tell you "omg why would you kill the spaghetti skeleton he was a good boy didnt do nothing"
>>339686275
the same reason kicking a five pound dog across the room when it barks at you is considered a little much, you are not on the same playing field at all
>>339686165
Frisk can die an infinite number of times and even Sans recognizes this, it's just not permanent.
>>339685983
>>339685994
yes electronic music is the easiest genre to compose for, it's the go-to for low effort amateurs and anyone fresh out of music school precisely because of that
>>339686124
I think you're the only one creating a mountain out of the molehill when someone says they hate the game you love
>>339685701
Yes, self defense is reasonable, but that doesn't mean that there can't be a better way out. The game isn't judging you, you're judging yourself.
>>339685561
>bad music
Post discarded :^)
>>339686009
I'm not going to make the point three other people have already made, but that was a selling point, not a message. Something to make it different from other rpgs.
>>339686275
But if you lose the fight you can just respawn and do it over
Hell, you can decide a week later you'd rather let the thug live and have a do-over.
it's up to you nigga. you are a fucking god and you know it
>>339686124
>It's not like shmups and rpgs haven't been around since the early 80's. Undertale is the first to produce a marriage between both systems.
Not that guy but no it isn't
>>339686349
But I didn't make it a mountain. People flipped their shits because they took one line out of context, and then I defended my position.
>>339686340
So all humans have the save power?
>>339686476
you've made a mountain out of it this entire thread dude, take a step back and look at your posts
>>339686349
>yes electronic music is the easiest genre to compose for, it's the go-to for low effort amateurs and anyone fresh out of music school precisely because of that
Because they don't have access to entire fucking orchestras
What would you rather they do, make MIDI music?
>>339686442
The only one of it's kind. I guess you could argue that games like Gradius are technically part RPG because of the options system, or flash games where you can upgrade your ship after every wave on ArmorGames, but Undertale is the only "real" RPG/Shmup.
>>339686439
If your argument is that the game is being meta and that the player is essentially god and cannot be harmed, then your entire moral argument is moot because the characters aren't real.
>>339686563
But I haven't, I was just defending my position. I didn't decide to flip out about one innocuous line. I made a claim and backed it up.
>>339686518
try playing the game
>>339686598
Sigma Star Saga
>>339686598
I'm pretty sure there actually was a game with turn-based dodging mechanics like a bullet hell on the DS or something but it kinda sucked.
>>339686349
>yes electronic music is the easiest genre to compose for, it's the go-to for low effort amateurs and anyone fresh out of music school precisely because of that
Are you trolling when you say this? Because this is the exact kind of thing someone says to rile up people who make electronic music because they know it's bullshit.
>>339686619
in the in-game universe the first item is true (explicitly so) and the second is not.
>>339681008
I don't know why anybody would say anything bad about Toby, he's such a chill dev.But fuck this dog why can't I kill it
>>339686715
It was a rhetorical question about the fact that the same monsters who tried to kill Frisk are allowed to roam the surface. Not every human on the surface has the power to save so the same standards that apply to Frisk are not valid.
>>339686619
That's not the point though, in the game, the Saving and reloading mechanics are part of the storyline and are part of the main character's power.
>>339686662
you aren't defending your argument you're trying to pick apart everyone else's reason for disliking the game by saying "you're not allowed to say the gameplay, music or art is bad because it was only made by one guy" which is supremely stupid
>>339686752
funny because I've heard the exact opposite from people who make electronic music when they agree that it is very easy to make compared to other genres
>>339686349
I never said I loved the game, either. I've been critical of it, and have openly said so.
It's really not my fault people completely mistook what I said.
>>339686815
Oh you were talking about the in-game universe. I thought you were talking about the person literally playing the game.
>>339686913
This raises an important question. What do you define as electronic music? EDM-style, or music of varying genres that happen to have synthetic instruments?
>>339678417
Cry less you whiny manchild, you probably think you're too hardcore for undertale meanwhile playing babby tier shitlike dota, tf2 or overwatch unironcally
>>339686835
that's a different situation entirely, and in that case, they wouldn't be valid
>>339686349
It seriously seems like you're either very butthurt or baiting, not trying to offend though
Did we listen to the same soundtrack? As easy as it might be to compose using chiptunes Toby did manage to make some catchy tunes and effort was undeniably put into it. I have been playing piano for almost a decade and I've composed some music myself and it's not so easy to come up with decent melodies. Unless Toby is some kind of musical genius it most likely took quite some time for him to compose the soundtrack
>>339686752
depends
dubstep has a learning curve due to the programs but most electronic is easy as piss
a couple light melodies and a drum track and youre done
>>339686913
Are you retarded, or do you just hear what you want to hear?
And no, you can't really say the music or gameplay is bad. Those are subjective as hell, especially when both the music and gameplay have merit, and millions of people have taken to them like flies to shit. They very obviously aren't objectively bad when more people like them than not. You're going to have to substantiate your claims.
Which was my point in the first place. No one substantiates their claims, and just say they hate it because one thing or another displeases them. Which is perfectly fine to do, you can have preferences, but it's not reasonable to hate a video game that has some semblance of quality.
GUACA
FUCKING
MELEE
Like I can understand being mildly miffed by the memeshit billboards that show up in the background every so often but /v/ takes that annoyance to an absurd degree and completely writes off an excellent metroidvania with a damn fun combat system that for the most part doubles as your advanced movement options.
>>339686349
Audio engineering is infinitely more complex than playing an instrument.
>>339687223
I don't think many people actually hated it. I know I was disgusted by the memes, but I loved the rest of the game.
Many people like the game, many people don't. It's pretty 50/50. Metroidvania/fighting doesn't jive well with some people. Those who outright hate it are usually unreasonable retard memers themselves.
>>339687294
yeah? then why are no "electronic music artists" in the rock and roll hall of fame?
>>339686349
Jesus Christ, this post. Maybe that guy who said the Undertale haters are unreasonable is somewhat right.
>this thread
I can't believe this is what /v/ has come to. No real gamer likes Undermeme, it doesn't even have gameplay. Literally all it is is some "le retro xd (not because I'm too bad at art to make a real 3d graphics I swear!!!) pixelshit trash where you read a story. No gameplay, just "deep" "artistic" bullshit, with a healthy dose of pandering to furries so it would actually get sales.
In 2009 posting on /v/ meant something. It was something you could feel proud about. Now it's....THIS! Unbelievable.
>>339687541
Nice bait.
>>339678001
I gave up after 15 minutes when it was doing nothing but Aonuma Zelda puzzle crap stuff.
>>339687607
That was literally the only time it even happens in the game.
Literally the only time.
What a mess we made, when it all went wrong
>>339687361
Why are there no apples in the oranges hall of fame?
Your argument is invalid anyway because for an artist to be even considered for the R&RHOF they have to have put out their first album 25 years ago. The technology we use today didn't exist 25 years ago.
>>339687607
Somehow you're too retarded for fucking Undertale of all games.
Congrats.
>>339687294
That's the kind of shit said by someone who's never done either. Like fucking jesus, they're completely different skillsets.
>>339687794
electronic music has been around since the 70s
>>339687171
Yeah, but you still have to actually MAKE THE SYNTHS. It's not like you can just click "Sawtooth" on your DAW and make it sound like a banging electrohouse track, or click "vomit" and make it sound like Snails and Tipper. You have to build these synths and learn how to manipulate them.
There is no electronic music genre that is pathetically easy to make. You have to put in work beforehand to learn how to do shit. Even fucking house, the simplest of electronic music, would still take time to learn.
https://soundcloud.com/matzo/turn-up-the-funk
This took Mat Zo like 30 minutes to make, but learning everything he does to the track to make it sound like it does would take hours of understanding your workstation, and this was just a joke track to make fun of the onslaught of "big-room house" in the electronic scene at the time.
>>339687684
Miyamoto is the one who said that first impressions are the most important. I may give it another try.
>>339687361
Because complex =/= good you idiot.
>>339687865
1) Back then it was mainly niche experimental stuff
2) It wasn't easy at all to make back then. The earliest "electronic" music was made by recording machinery producing certain tones on magnetic tape and cutting/stitching it together until it produced a melody
>>339679331
>so sorry isn't a furry
Congratulations.
You're a retard.
>>339688176
He's a "butter dragon" so I think it qualifies as scaly
but thats just splitting hairs about which anthropomorphic animal you're fucking
>>339688159
no wonder it sucks. they should learn to play an instrument instead
>>339687347
>Metroidvania/fighting doesn't jive well with some people
I can't see why it wouldn't, it works perfectly in the game. It's absolutely rock solid.
>>339688060
Not Anon, but Miyamoto is a talentless weasel.
>Inafune
>Miyamoto
>Nomura
Name 3 people who were character designers before being promoted because they doodled a popular character for revolutionary game's programmed and created by other, lesser known people.
Stop giving these fucks celebrity.
