How would you balance him?
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How would you balance him?
>>339652423
Remove the roll reload, there now he doesn't face roll all tanks in the game.
cooldown on FTH similar to lucio's blast
flashbang blinds rather than stuns
Remove the roll to reload. That's bout it. You can keep the roll mechanic Flash n fan is doing exactly what it's supposed to do. The extra chance to unload 200+ damage is bs tho
>>339652423
Make it so that he never needs to reload, and his flashbang has a 1 second cooldown.
Give more health to Solder 76 and Pharah, like 50 more. It'll make McCree a more glass cannon pick.
>>339652603
doesn't than mean if you fan you fan forever
Increase the flashbang range to medium instead of short range. Now if McCree chooses to flash in close range he'll get flashed as well. If the enemy is flashed in medium range he can't rely on fan the hammer to get kills anymore
Give him about 100 more health.
Fan the Hammer deals less damage. 50 each bullet
Replace flash bang with fan the hammer as an ability.
Stuns have no place in shooters.
Remove fan the hammer and instead have secondary fire draw a second revolver, granting him additional shots temporarily while increasing his rate of fire.
Flashbang could stay as is but have a 20 second cooldown
Remove the reload on roll, increase the distance rolled
>>339652423
With another McRee
>>339653385
and that is why you don't make games
High noon's bullets can pierce through walls if they initially locked on.
Give him a gorilla costume. Give him the ability to lynch 4 year old african children.
>>339652423
if he directly hits someone with the flashbang projectile they stay stunned for as long as now.
Just half of that time if the aoe hits you.
>>339653529
but it works
Flashbang doesn't stun, but mutes sound and whites out the screen.
>>339653281
All the better.
ITT: Lets make McCree unplayable.
Stay away from my husbando
Black out your screen when you use flashbang
20 sec cool down on hammer
>>339652423
Give fan the hammer a 200 damage cap.
Double flash-bang cooldown.
Now he can kill most heroes 1v1 but won't kill tanks instantly and take out multiple opponents in seconds.
Flashbang interrupts channeled abilities and applies a 2 second cooldown on all skills.
stronger situationally? fuck yes
the cooldowns make it so tracers and meis and junkrats and shit cant just reflex escape but they can still fight back.
works the way it was intended to fuck up a guy overextending, but isnt a guaranteed instant gib.
>Being close enough to Mccree that you get flash comboed
>This needs to be nerfed
>Bastion is fairly durable and can do very good damage at a long distance
>Fine
Snipers seem to counter them both though.
Flashbang slows and disables movement abilities so he can still fuck Tracers and it's not a completely free kill. Fan the hammer does less damage with each additional shot landed on the same fag so tanks don't get raped.
>>339654190
>bastion in a hallway
>mccree has no actual way of dealing with it at all. He cant outrun him, cant find a way around, cant jump over, cant even ult because he'd be dead in a fucking second, mccree is completely fucked
>bastion isn't picked vs a full mccree team because "lol bastion sucks"
>mccree then considered overpowered
>>339654190
>implying mccree can't fight well at medium/long range as well
if you honestly think bastion is more of a problem than mccree, all i can really say is
GIT
GENJI
flashbang only stuns when you hit the target and doesn't stun you from across the fucking room
reeeeeeeeee
In game clock frozen at 12:01
>>339654470
>GIT
>GENJI
He can just shoot at someone else or wait you out, it's a soft counter at best.
>>339652423
>Ultimate
you have to actually hover into the enemies to 'tag' them during the channel before releasing the trigger
kinda like tagging people with your binoculars on Far Cry 3
Make fan the hammer a charge ability (2-6 shots depending on charge length) that's more effective at longer ranges than it is presently
Make flashbang an actual grenade that can bounce, have it blind and deafen, and McCree can flash himself if he fucks up.
Roll doesn't automatically reload, instead McCree can start a reload and roll without interrupting it. Increase range and decrease cooldown.
You have to right click really fast to work fan the hammer.
>>339655670
That's a horrid idea
Higher cooldown on flashbang.
Retarded spread on FTH.
>>339655938
Why? It makes it harder to use.
>>339655430
>completely gutting the hardest counter to tracer
lolnokiddo
>>339652423
by telling people to stop running off on their own when they see the enemy team has a mcree
if anything fth is getting nerfed somehow (pc gamer interview i think?) but only so he cant melt tanks in 2 seconds. the flash fantheskill combo and being a counter to squishy flankers will stay.
Step 1: Fan the hammer now fires wildly and cannot be reliably used on its own
Step 2: flashbang no longer physically stuns but it does interrupt and mark an enemy for 3 seconds
Step 3: Fan the hammer will auto aim to marked targets and deals 25 damage a shot
still good at stopping ults? sure
still good at instant nuking a tracer or weaker enemy? sure
wildly approchable character that fits the overall casualness of the game and "instant kill auto aim 'deadeye'" design of the character himself? yes
no longer able to kill absoluetely everything that moves with no chance to fight back? thats the gist of it
best idea in the thread? prove me wrong
His stun also stuns him if he's in range. That way it's still useful when working as a team but doesn't give him a free I Win button against everything in the game.
>>339652423
>Not playing D.Va
There's your problem.
Give Fan the Hammer a 5 second cooldown
Increase Fan the Hammer's spread or damage falloff at midrange
That's it. The entire problem with McSkill is Fan the Hammer.It's also the fact that he provides more consistent DPS than both 76 and Reaper at their respective ranges but fan the hammer is a big part of why. That said his left clicks do insane damage and McCrees that can actually aim are aggravating.
>>339652423
nerf his aim range to start. he shouldnt snipe from full screen. huge spread after 20ft or some shit. like length of objectives. he is 1v1 man, not widowmaker and hanzo. no reload on roll but shorter cooldown and invulnerable during the roll. ult needs to be 5 seconds long, not 10. you can activate it and clear the objective for 10 full seconds and not even be near it - thats how insane it is currently. it should not lock on while moving at all. no walking out from cover as it brings up his arm animation and getting lock ons with the way the netcode works before you are visible to others. the stun grenade should only stun if it hits, not if you miss and hit the ground. only 1 person can be stunned. longer cooldown on the stun.
>>339652423
How many of you actually play mccree? I have started playing him to get an objective understanding of him as a character.
Basically his learning curve is the recoil on fan the hammer but once you get used to that you can just about spam it and get free kills on almost anyone. With his reload time as fast as it is, there is no reason not to stay in a tight space and move close to fan then back up to reload then close to fan.
His biggest weakness is his lack of mobility but that can easily be overcome with proper positioning. Know your environment and stick to your strong points.
Personally i would lower the fan damage just a little bit and make his reload time longer. Even without the double fan with roll he face rolls anyone who is not a tank. Make his fan do enough to kill 200 health players but require him to get heads hots or incorporate melee attacks to finish off 250 health characters. Going for headshots should be high risk because of the recoil but not make it impossible for him to kill medium health with good aim.
>>339652423
i would balance myself on his fat dick
Simple, make fan the hammer unload 4 rounds instead of 6 and put a small delay after the action is complete before he can start shooting again. McCree can work as intended in shutting down fast, lone characters <280HP while still being disadvantaged by tanks. This will also force McCree to get very close to his targets so that he can increase the chance that he can land all four shots.
>>339657653
>playing garbage
>>339653385
that is the most broken idea i've ever heard. We're talking about nerfing Mccree not fucking him in the ass.
>>339652423
Primarily I'm gonna stick to my guns through this and say that I don't honestly believe Mccree needs a nerfing at all. He is a hero with a similar design to reaper, genji, and tracer. He is a monster one on one, but unless you've mastered aim with his M1, he's not much in a fight when the enemy team is in a tight group. He devastates stragglers, that's his job. The problem with Mccree is that it feels unfair when he does so because of his stun. Unlike other stuns in the game which can be avoided by skillfull players and failure to avoid them means you're punished by getting stunned. Mccree stun is instant. if he throws a stun, you're stunned. There is no counter play in that situation unless you can fake him out with a really well timed Reaper fade or Genji deflect. I think the solution is to give his flashbang more of a tell, and a slight delay. just so that it's not an instantaneous *boop* free kill. In fact, maybe even give it a bounce and a blinking light. It would still be possible to stun someone, but the enemy getting stunned now has a chance to react making it feel fair if it succeeds because now it's on you to react appropriately in that situation.
Make Flashbang function like an actual Flashbang.
It supposed to blind you and white out some of the sound around you not stun you. It's not a Stun Grenade.
I like >>339652560 idea of making FtH an ability like Lucio's. Should be around 4 second cooldown but I'm not sure. That might be too much of a nerf.
Remove reload on roll.
>>339658787
Getting used to the recoil on FtH is so easy though, it takes like 2 minutes to get reliable headshots with it.
>>339652423
>Flashbang should blind and slow, rather than stun.
>Remove the speed reloader: Bullets are loaded individually, with a split second barrel lock when finished/canceled. Damage is boosted a bit to compensate
>You have two guns, each with their separate ammo counter: one that you have when you spawn, and a second, hidden one. Combat rolling switches your guns.
>Deadeye damage is capped at 666 damage per shot.
>>339652423
Remove him. I hate playing him and I hate playing against him.
>>339652423
He's already balanced. He has no mobility outside of a short roll with a long cooldown, has low health, and is completely useless while FB is on cooldown.
Widowmaker is the one character that needs nerfs. D.va needs small buffs.
Aside from that every character is balanced.
I'd say buff Zenyatta, but if we could just get those nerfs to Widowmaker, that'd be all the buffs he needed since he wouldn't be getting killed by a bodyshot everytime he tried to leave spawn.
Make everything Middle Weight, since that's what it takes for REAL BALANCING!
>>339652532
>Remove
I agree.
>>339663952
fth can't headshot
>>339652423
remove you
>>339652423
give his alt fire a cooldown
>>339652423
i'd honestly delet him
If you take out his abilty to one shoot people with his fan he'll end up useless
The whole hero design is garbage
>>339652423
Add more RNG?
>>339652423
Reduce fan the hammer damage enough that he can still destroy low health flankers without also destroying tanks. Give fan the hammer damage drop off at midrange to encourage proper use of his primary fire.
>>339667201
Being able to melt squishies is okay, being able to also melt tanks with two button presses isn't
>>339667547
*two additional button presses
>>339667547
It's a problem when literally no squishy can 1v1 him unless he severely misplays, I think they should make flashbang harder to hit or increase the cd.
>>339666252
>He's already balanced.
If he's so balanced then why are there always between 3-5 McCree's in actual competitive setups?
>>339667816
Because he can 1v1 any character. That's his thing. In teamfights he can get one pick and then he is essentially out of the fight for nine seconds.
>>339652423
Change his sex to female
>>339667201
Agreed. The "revolver" archetype in fps is just pure cancer that always has stupid high damage at close range yet is also one of the strongest classes at mid to long because even if other shit can do more damage than them at those ranges they're more accurate so it doesn't fucking matter since you have to be brain damaged to miss.
He needs to have his "turn the corner and mcrees there? oops you're dead" or the casuals won't stop complaining and they need to remove his mid to long range strength or the "pros" will keep complaining. Basically to make everyone happy they need to make him fucking useless.
>>339652423
Make his flashbang a smaller projectile with longer range but a smaller aoe so you can easily miss without aiming and encourage not using fan.
Reduce the reload on primary fire by a .5 second and increase the reload after fan by .5 (make him shake his left hand like it's burnt/out of power)
I personally think he's fine, these would just nerf him for shitty players that need a crutch
>>339652423
A ton of characters that are considered OP would be balanced if there was limited ammo.
Mckree, Mei, and Bastion can miss as many shots as they want because they have unlimited ammo. There should be limited ammo and have ammo pick-ups like the healthpacks, and maybe future support heroes could give ammo to allies.
>>339668186
I agree, if America makes its own Senran Kagura: Tumblr edition, it will sell like hot dogs to the overweight americans, wearing their patriotic jumpsuits.
>>339668464
>Bastion
>Mei
>OP
>>339669007
>considered
Are you implying players don't frequently complain about Bastion or Mei?
There's at least 3 threads about them a day.
>>339652423
Combat roll puts a 0.5s cooldown on fan the hammer per bullet reloaded, 3s if he reloads the full 6. Add a damage drop-off and lower accuracy so he's still king at short range but incredibly unreliable at long range.
>>339668464
That sounds awful.
>>339652423
Make him naked
>>339655670
I'll just bind my mouse wheel to fire.
>>339652423
W, A, and D don't work. He can only walk backwards.
>>339669414there's not enough good overwatch gay porn
>>339669639
I'd be okay with this.
>>339669582
dat noodle arm
>>339652423
remove flashbang AOE, it will take skill to use then
Fan the hammer is difficult to aim and has high recoil and spread
There, easy
>>339669683
It'll roll in eventually. There are too many great husbandos in the game for it not to.
>>339652423
Very carefully. And probably on top of some circus balls.
>>339652423
Revolver is removed, and replaced by finger guns. For every shot he takes 4 more shoot back at him.
>>339652423
Redo his voice acting with Marc Alaimo.
Why did they give the cowboy character a flashbang in the first place?
>>339652423
Give him Tracer's Time Bra
>>339658651
this guy knows whats up
I play genji a lot so its a nice counter, but he is to quiet, you barely hear his footsteps even if hes around the corner. Probably the most silent character in the game atm, add a "boot jingle" and I will be happy.
Also roll reload removed would be nice
>flash bang only works on direct hits
>hitting an enemy in the head with a flash bang doubles the duration
ez
>>339652423
Replace flashbang with dynamite. Give it a 2-second fuse, but let there be a cooking mechanic so you can time when/at what distance you went it do det.
Still lets him whore corners for burst damage without confirming into/synergising with FtH, and it can even be used as a long-range harass option to compensate.
Increase turret health from 1 HP to 15 HP
Apply an additional 25 shields to any friendly hero that uses her teleporter. Stacks with her E ability
>>339652423
Either remove the roll to reload or maybe rework fan the hammer to deal less damage with each successive shot that hits the target.
They said he's meant to punish other offense and flankers, not melt a tank in a single combo.
this shit is controversial, but i seriously believe McCree needs invisibility frames on his roll.
>>339669328
Bastion is just a counter to shitty players.
Mei is frustrating as all fuck and a complete fucking cunt to play against, but she's not OP. Just avoid rolling too far from your team if you know she's in the area.
>>339673629
...is that not what the roll does?
>>339673629
Even if he did deserve this, which he doesn't, his roll lasts like a quarter of a second anyway, why bother?
>>339673675
Mei would be 100% less annoying to deal with if her ice heal could actually be broken
why is she allowed to contest the point for a full 5 seconds with the other team completely unable to do anything about it?
>>339673675
I think the thing about Bastion that irritates people is that he requires a counter in a way no other hero does. Like, you do better against Tracer with Winston, but you don't need one to win, whereas you do basically need a good sniper/junkrat/pharah/genji to deal with Bastion or everyone will keep melting.
>>339674090
a good 76 can deal with a Bastion
one cluster bomb is enough to scare the bastard anyways
>>339673893
that'd actually be interesting. It'd need to be a pretty high number though. Like enough to keep her safe from a single player, but 2 or 3 can break it and kill her.
>>339673629
>Give him a "get out of D.va, Junkrat and Tracer ult. free" card
y tho
hes fine
>>339674210
around the same as Winston's shield maybe?
>>339674356
that'd be pretty good, one player has to be a bursty fucker to drop that.
Maybe penalize Mei if it gets broken, since if she gets off half the duration, she still healed a good amount.
>>339674210
>Same health as Winston's shield
>When the ice is destroyed she shatters with it
>>339674356
For something that lasts 5 seconds anyway, 600hp wouldn't make any difference. I'd put it closer to 300-400.
Jesus people just harass him after he stuns.
He's a one trick pony. And unless he can pull of 2 headshots he's pretty lame against anything with more HP than a Tracer.
>>339673684
Nope, it just reloads the gun
>>339652423
Lower his rotational momentum to 0 and ensure that his center of mass is directly above a point that lies on the line between his two feet.
remove roll reload
add cooldown to fth
slightly decrease the damage of his gun but slightly increase the attack speed to compensate
make flash bang require a direct hit instead of an unblockable aoe
there, mccree is now balanced
>>339652423
Deploy Reinhardt that jumps and looks down at the same time.
EZ
Nerf Fan, most likely a CD, probably 3ish seconds, maybe 4 or 5. That's it.
>>339675220
Flattened Mcree's all around at that point, bu what can BLIZZARD do to nerf him?
>>339652423
Change his Peacekeeper to a Peacemaker.
Reloading one round at a time.
>>339652423
Reduce the accuracy of his gun at long range. He should continue dominating at close range.
>>339675037
there, you showed why random schmucks shouldnt have a voice in balancing
>>339652423
Remove reload from shift. Shift now makes a puff of smoke and Mcree is invisible for 3 seconds or until he fires at/melees an enemy.
Widowmaker ultimate still works on him while invis.
Also flashbang has to hit the target, no aoe.
Everything the same except
Roll only reloads half clip
OR
FtH does 20% less damage total
>>339675220
that trick works once
>>339675460
there, you made a post without contributing at all to the discussion
instead of just saying "i don't like it", maybe try being constructive
>>339652423
The damage from his fan the hammer should have falloff or be more inaccurate. Im getting killed by fanning from 10m away that somehow gets real lucky with the RNG multiple times
>>339667816
This.
You'll see 3 McCree's if there were 2 McCree's on the enemy team just to counter him.
I'm not saying he's as broken as others are (Because majority of those commenting are prob shitters) but there's definitely something that needs to change with him.
>>339675485
Thank god this dumb nigger doesn't do balancing.
Either
>Fan the Hammer now deals 50 damage per shot (down from 70)
Or
>Fan the Hammer now has a 10 second cooldown
>>339675597
No I did. Im saying you're shit and need your hand held. Let's make it so pharah can only direct hit or tracer cant phase through rein shields or junkrats trap can be destroyed by victim or add cooldown to meis right click
>all these shitters who think flashbangs are the problem
Put a fucking cooldown on fan or at the very least add more, like quite a bit more, random spread. As it is fan is too strong and needs to be toned down somehow. Why else would all the comp teams consist of at least 2 McCrees running around spamming fan?
>>339675895
lowering it to 50 doesnt actually solve anything
>>339675916
t. mccree main
Blizzard is already nerfing his damage. They said he is not supposed to take out tanks so easily.
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/overwatchs-mccree-and-dva-could-be-changed-heres-h/1100-6440368/
>>339676046
t. dank memer
>>339671014
You can hear the spurs on his feet. Also, you hear the footsteps of enemies louder than allies.
>>339675549
All the time. So many dead MCrees. Honestly nerfing him and buffing D Va will make my day since I find there is no reason for either to happen. Mcree's easy to handle and D Va on the right maps is a beast.
>Mcree's faces when up against my Rein
>>339675220
what does that do?
>>339652423
>FTH prevents roll until .8 seconds after use
>FTH does 350 total damage point-blank, ignoring headshot damage
>FTH drastically decreases accuracy when used immediately after the previous FTH, and/or after a roll for .5 seconds
Pick any or all.
>>339675220
What does this do?
>>339678053
Well, FTH already ignores headshots, so cross that off your list.
>>339678053
scratch that, maybe 250 is enough, at least to knockout any non-tank
>>339663362
Same. He's fine as he is.
>>339652423
How is he OP?
>needs to be close to do damage
>squishy
>immobile
>shit ulti
>>339653385
I love this idea, McCree fags mad
>>339652423
Remove him from the game.
McCree should lose the stun.
Let Flashbang blind enemies, which still cancels ults, but also silences them for the short duration it has. Still lets him kill close range people like Genji and Tracer with Fan, doesn't let him ruin people's days.
If they keep the stun, rolling shouldn't reload and maybe increase the distance of the roll so he can be a bit more mobile. Let him shoot while rolling too.
>>339652423
Remove AoE of flashbang, hitbox only
>>339678484
He has a stun that can't usually be dodged and if he lands it, he usually gets a free kill while the stunned player can do literally nothing to retaliate.
He's the best duelist in the game because of this and he's extremely overrepresented in top-level play.
Remove flashbang, replace with dynamite.
Then adjust Tracer and Genji so they don't take over the game.
The only way to fix cancer is to cut it right out. Don't bother tweaking it.
>>339667978
>he is essentially out of the fight for nine seconds
Do you even play this game? In what world is he out of the fight just because his flashbang is down? He still has fan for 6 70 damage shots in a second and he still has 70 damage hitscan shots with perfect accuracy with only long range damage falloff.
You are a delusional shitter who thinks that the only way someone can get a kill is with right click because you can't do any better.
>>339662724
What, can't beat someone who isn't standing still?
>>339662724
Lold
>>339653572
no it can't thats just lag and blizz shitty tick rate.
Forget about the flashbang. I'd nerd his fan, specifically giving it a cooldown like lucio's wub blast and increasing the spread on the bullets simultaneously.
This is also the most likely need we'll see
They need to get rid of flashbang as an ability, or at least completely remove the stun. I can't believe that ability made it past the alpha. Like, I don't think I've ever seen a McCree not kill someone after they've been flashbanged. It's way too strong of an ability, especially when coupled with his bullshit roll to reload and fan the hammer.
make it pic related
blurry vision and a super wide reticule when you're hit by it
or someshit idk
Can we remove 300 HP from roadhog and give him 300 armor
>>339652423
Most of his abilities are okay, what breaks him is his stupidly high damage and range for his default shot. It's absurd for a close range-focused character, imagine if Reaper could headshot snipe widows from the other side of the map as well.
>/v/ in charge of balancing
>>339679045
His slow-firing M1 is definitely not the reason he's the top duelist in the game.
>>339653942
i like this idea, maybe just above 200? something like 250 to ensure victory in 1v1 against harassers and flankers but still not effective against most tanks
>>339679008
That would be hilarious
>>339679021
Honestly, Roadhog is already so good at soaking damage that I shudder to think what he'd be like with armor.
>>339679138
It's slow-firing, but it's far from being shit. Headshot damage is ridiculous and, again, so is its range.
Play with people that can actually aim, there's no reason to NOT run double McCree.
>>339679224
Doesnt armor only take off 5 dmg per hit?
>>339679138
But it is why he's overpowered. There's nothing wrong with a character excelling in one area, but lacking a lot in another. It's how different characters fill niches.
McCree is good at just about every range because of his M1 being great. It's why he has over a 100% pick rate in competitive play, he's so good offensively that some teams will take 2.
>All the mcree fags will bandwagon to dva after the patch
fuck who do i use now
>>339679021
>wearing no armour
>just give him armour anyway pham who cares
>>339679292
Yeah, but that 5 damage per hit racks up quickly when 76, Tracer and D.Va are firing at him, the former two being two of his best counters.
>>339679426
reinhardt has no shield despite having a huge shield
>>339679413
literally the whole cast
be a team player you fuccboi
>>339679479
Best counter to the hog is Widowmaker, she's never in the same county as him and can take off half his health in one shot because of his huge head hitbox
>>339654425
>a hallway where you cant go around
there is a reason that doesnt exist in overwatch you idiotic nigger, bastion is a shit tier hero
>>339679242
It's definitely not shit, but it's also definitely not the reason he's the top duelist in the game. That would be the fact that he has a stun he doesn't even have to aim and an alt-fire that does absurd damage on immobile targets. You know, like the ones he just stunned.
Take away his ability to destroy literally any character at close range (by just removing the flashbang, he can keep FTH) and he's a fragile medium-range skirmisher.
>>339679292
Yeah, so it does very little against high-damage weapons but would hugely increase his survivability against anyone who shoots bullets.
But he's already extremely hard to kill. The very first time I played him, I went 16:0 in a 3-minute match, and I'm not even good at the game.
>>339679375
I've always thought of him as a mid-range character, which is why I want his close-range abilities nerfed. His close-range abilities are far more cancerous than his medium-range abilities.
>>339679595
To be fair, Widow counters literally anyone at long range
replace flashbang with fan
replace alt fire with ?????
remove reload on roll
fixed
>>339655081
>wait you out
>pop in and out of cover with nearly 100 damage in shurikens with no damage drop off every few seconds
>wait for bastion to shoot at you
deflect
>deals more damage back at him
>>339679695
Not Genji
>Reflecting headshots onto Widowmaker from across the map
Apex kek
>>339679687
The stun has a cooldown, though, and while the stun+fan combo sucks, that's pretty much his whole original gimmick.
You can avoid those situations with long range characters to counter him. You can't avoid having him headshot you from 300 meters away while you're in the air as Pharah and your rocket hasn't even reached him. And that, my friend, is what's fundamentally broken about him at the moment.
>>339656732
i would prove you wrong
but you're right
>>339652423
Finite ammo.
Get it back through ammo pickups. Buffs D.Va, nerfs McREEEEEEE, and stops the game being a contest of who can spam more through the chokepoint.
I always lose with mccree what am I doing wrong?
>>339679687
>mid-range character
>When two of his three abilities are close-range oriented
S76 is your mid-range character.
>>339679781
Assuming you see her before she sees you, what with her scope and possible infra-sight
>>339679737
And what exactly is the rest of said Bastion's team doing while he is busy denying a large sight-line?
>>339679919
Use cover and shoot randomly until your cooldowns come back, peek from a corner, if there's a guy there use your flashbang+fan+roll+fan/m1 and with that you're pretty much set for life, boy.
>>339673629
frames where he hops on arthas' mount? sounds kinda silly
>>339679736
alt fire is primary fire as is now, it just takes a half second to zoom in or focus in
primary fire has a larger reticule
or something similar
>defense on Hollywood
>teammate picks McCree
>Widowmaker: "McCree is offense, pick a defense hero"
>rest of team proceeds to mock him for being a tard for the rest of the game
sometimes things go alright in pubs
>>339680014
its overwatch
they're busy being fucking retarded
>>339680063
>primary fire has a larger reticule
>Not defaulting the reticule to a small dot
>>339680063
That'll work. alt-fire as a semi-marksman mode is fine. Maybe even lessen the damage falloff if fully zoomed in.
>>339652423
remove roll reload, halve roll cooldown
>>339673675
Mei is definitely more frustrating than anything, yeah. If you fall prey to her there's about 1-3 seconds where you know you're fucked and all you can do is wait for her to finish you off.
>>339679848
You at least need to be able to aim to score headshots.
>>339679971
My friend, who was following the game more than me, hyped up the lack of falloff on his revolver and kept telling me he was a scopeless sniper.
In any case, I'd rather he be mid-range, with more fall-off if necessary, than keep that completely unfun cancerous stun grenade combo.
>nambani
>win on attack
>lose on defence
>>339680131
what so its laser accurate at all times? did you not get what i was trying to do with the alt fire
>>339652423
FTH shot = 60 dmg instead of 70, single shot remains 70
FTH = 360 if all shots land instead of 420, 400 health tank survives
FTH x 2 = 720. Can only miss 2 out of 12 bullets to down a roadhog if within highest effective range and no buffs present
>>339680268
>temple of anubis
>win on defense
>then win on attack
If attackers don't take the second point within like 30 seconds of the first one, then defense usually takes it
whats the difference between roadhog's hook shotgun combo and mcree's flashbang fth combo
>>339680459
literally nothing
>>339680459
About 410 damage
>>339680459
Roadhog has to aim, the hook can be dodged, and if the distance is long enough, the stun will wear off and you can react before he can fire. I've escaped the meatshot with Tracer's E, for example.
>>339654936
Underrated post.
It's pretty obvious who the bads are here. There's a VERY clearly distinction between those who have made attempts to learn the ins and outs of the game and those who haven't.
Giving a mccree a hitscan weapon with absolutely no damage falloff is absurd. Giving him the ability to push out nearly 1k damage in a couple of seconds is a crime against humanity.
i would replace "flashbang" with "pistol whip". melee range, same effect.
McCree is completely fine. you stay away from him so you dont get fried, and currently nobody is that scary in melee range so we could use someone
>>339680592
>Giving a mccree a hitscan weapon with absolutely no damage falloff is absurd.
he has falloff
>>339680585
>the hook can be dodged
I've seen that nigga shit hook me through fucking walls.
>>339680585
>stun duration doesn't start when the victim gets to roadhog
what
>>339680459
Roadhog hook + 2 perfect non-crit blasts = 480 dmg
McRee flashbang + 2 perfect FTH = 890 dmg
Nerf McCree, then castrate every mouthbreather who drops him to main whatever got buffed.
>>339680459
this is actually a good point. Both are instant kills for most characters
Hog's hook is a straight line, he's gotta aim at you with some precision. Auto aim helps, but if he misses, he needs to wait only like 6 seconds to try again. Tanks can survive most of the time, as can some gimmicky escapes.
McCree's flash is an AoE. If you're in range, it will hit you unless the McCree is a level beyond retarded. It has a longer CD. If the McCree is not retarded, even tanks cannot survive the flash fan roll fan combo.
>>339680459
If Roadhog hooks a full health tank, he's in for a fight
If McCree flashes a full health tank, he's already won the fight
>>339680665
does he? ive headshot people from quite far away and have obliterated them
>>339680592
>There's a VERY clearly distinction between those who have made attempts to learn the ins and outs of the game and those who haven't.
>a hitscan weapon with absolutely no damage falloff
Yes and you haven't, dumb shitter
>>339680665
Not on headshots, which is the issue.
You could fix that by not letting him get headshots anymore.But I still think his headshots are better than his flashbang, because he needs to have some skill to pull them off.
>>339680702
That's due to the 20 tick. You think you're behind the wall, the server thinks otherwise. Game takes priority of abilities during compensation.
>>339680940
Fan the hammer does not headshot
His single shot has never been a problem
Fan the hammer and single shot both have range falloff of up to 50%
Stop posting.
>>339673215
>1 HP to 15 HP
Are you trying to make her OP?
>>339681094
>His single shot has never been a problem
Not for me, but >>339679848 sure does think it's an issue, and McCree being good at all ranges, which he is, is absolutely a problem.
>>339681094
Are you fucking retarded? One of the major problems is that he can still deal a lot of damage from a quite long range. You can easily 2 shot people as mccree with some headshots from a good distance away.
Thats the main problem, his hitscan weapon still does a silly amount of damage. I'm sorry you and your friends can't aim which leads you to believe your silly claim.
>>339681095
>81% winrate and she isn't even fun to play
Nice, thanks Blizzard.
Why are supports not named Zenyatta so goddamn boring?
So how about this.
Remove Roll reload, or make it 2-3 bullets.
If Roll reload is fully removed, make it an actual movements skill, 1-2 second cooldown and longer roll.
Make Fan the hammer lock Mcree in place. it fits better with the gunfighter motif.
Make fan the hammer have a 4 second cooldown
Make each bullet do 50 damage.
But, make fan the hammer as accurate as Mcrees regular shots.
This will make it so MCree will retain the advantage in a 1v1 fights in terms of dps, but you will have to time the use of fan the hammer and dodge around and land all of your shots to survive.
>>339681240
unless you can hit headshots he isnt as good as soldier/bastion/torb turrets at medium range
>>339681341
>unless you can hit headshots
Which is why I'd rather he keep the headshots than the flashbang, but there are players who can reliably land headshots and they're going to abuse his M1.
>>339681341
it's a hitscan weapon, it isnt hard
which also brings up the point that its extremely easy to buildup his ult because of that
>>339652423
Slower firing rate (left click) or lower it's damage (it's just as accurate as widowmaker's sniper and has a shitload of damage and firing speed)
Remove roll reload
Change stun mechanics (longer cooldown, slower effect, different effect)
>>339681425
this game isnt CS lad
headshots arent reliable
>>339681340
I like the locking him in place thing.
>>339681340
>But, make fan the hammer as accurate as Mcrees regular shots.
So you want him to keep the cancerous stun but you also want to make FTH stronger.
>>339681312
Uh no, that's how he should be used. If you do anything to his single shot you might as well just remove him and widowmaker from the game.
The only issue is his ability to stunlock and shit out 890 damage in 3 seconds
just remove this dumb character
>>339681340
>2 second roll
>accurate as fuck fth
nah nigga
people with godlike aim would just fucking destroy even more with him
>>339652423
Do you think playing bot matches as Genji would be a good way to learn his playstyle or should I just jump into the thick of it against people?
>>339672407
This
Also make his roll go farther but take longer. Made it actually look like his highlight intro.
>>339681623
bots are either fucking dumb and easy kills or never make mistakes instant lock on
genji is best against players
>>339681597
This post has to be a joke
You can't be this fucking retarded anon, can you? Can you post your overwatch stats just so I can be sure I'm not dreaming?
use masteroverwatch
>>339681623
Unless you're in high elo (does that even exist yet?) you can just jump in and do your best. The game is genuinely not difficult. I tried Genji in the beta and was so bad I never touched him after that, but I gave him another shot a few days ago and I'm not worse with him than anyone else. I still need to improve my Genji play but as long as you remember to E against Bastion and torb turrets it's hard to fuck up.
To all the people asking the flashbang to be removed or altered: Fuck off
To all the people asking the roll to stop reloading: Fuck off
To all the people wanting McCree to be weak as fuck: Fuck off
Give Fan the Hammer a cooldown. That's all you gotta do.
>>339681710
Alright, thanks.
McRee's entire design is based around Flash + FTH + roll + FTH
please stop trying to come up with ideas that change this basic design principle because that's never going to be different.
>>339681779
t. mccree main
Nuke the flashbang and he's still strong as fuck, he just stops being untouchable in 1v1.
>>339681779
He can still instakill anything non-tank that walks around a corner without infra-sight
>>339681615
>>339681596
oh I forgot to say, make his reload take a full 2 seconds. So if he fails in any way he is virtually fucked.
With his range falloff from 50 damage fth shots, at long range they would drop down to 25, so even if you landed 6 headshots it would only be 150 damage.
>>339681908
he really isnt
most close range characters run circles around him or can stun him
his stun is his crutch counter for tracer mei and reaper
>>339681873
He has a hitscan weapon with infinite(?) range and headshot potential. He could be retooled as a medium-range character.
He won't be, because Blizzard is clueless with competitive games, but he COULD be.
You could also remove the second FTH from that combo and he'd still be an amazing duelist.
>>339682028
that still sounds garbage mate
>>339682039
>his stun is his crutch counter for tracer mei and reaper
and the entire rest of the cast as well, which is why it's cancer
>>339682028
Headshots don't fall off and FTH can't headshot anyway.
>WAAAAAAAAAAAH I GOT KILLED BY x CHARACTER SO MAKE HIM/HER/A ROBOT UNPLAYABLE
DELETE
>>339681873
It will be different
dev team said they're gonna be looking at the flash
>>339682197
He can do 800+ damage on his own and has an instant stun. Shit bait, try again.
>>339682172
>headshots don't crit.
Well then. I did not know that. thank you for educating me. I will now proceed to eat a bag of dicks.
Good thing I am better at reaper and like him more.
>>339679494
the fuck? rein's shield has its own health bar when its deployed
>>339682418
You understand all the characters can do 800+ damage on their own. Or in your haste to post your generic smug anime picture you forgot to specify.
>>339682043
> infinite(?) range
nope
training dummies have 200hp
35x2x3=210dmg
>>339682749
you also understand that he can chew through tanks in almost 2 seconds right?
>>339682172
>headshots don't fall off meme
shitters stop posting >>339682940
>>339682749
In the matter of 2 seconds with, again, a stun? Not only that, a dodge roll that makes him immune to damage while it's active. Yeah, he's balanced. That's why competitive teams make sure to run two of him, right? But sure, it's just the smug anime face I wanted to post.
>>339682749
You know damn well what he meant
>>339682940
All this proves is that he has damage fall-off, which I wasn't disputing.
As far as I know there is no maximum range to the hitscan on his gun, which means he can score headshots at any range if he's good enoughand luck is on his side, thanks to the 20 frame tick rate
>>339683025
>>339683090
>HUR WHY DOES THIS HIGH RISK HIGH REWARD CHARACTER DO BETTER THAN ME
Weeaboos are so funny.
Meanwhile you main Genji and bitch when Mcree doesn't shoot at you when you have the reflection on.
>>339683139
>>339683034
>>339682940
Oh, my bad, it's 2 AM and you highlighted the wrong part of my post so I misunderstood you. Someone here said headshots don't fall off so I just believed it. I don't play McCree or Widowmaker so I don't know the mechanics of headshots.
>>339683249
This is very low quality bait.
I'm giving you an F for the semester. You'll really have to study harder if you want to pass this class.
>>339683249
>is someone in your face?
>stun
high risk har har
>>339653472
Maybe not exactly this, but good lord do I ever agree with getting rid of stuns.
Taking control away from a player just so they can watch themselves die every time is poor, poor game design. Same thing with Mei; she can freeze you in place, but you should still be able to shoot. As well as Roadhogs hook; you should still be able to fire your weapon when hooked so Roadhog players would actually have to think about who and when they hook.
>>339683139
>6 (SIX) headshots at max range = 420 damage
>meanwhile, 2 widowmaker headshots = 600 damage
omg so OP
>>339683249
actually i'm a mccree main and even I admit his damage is pretty retarded
>>339683374
>is someone in your face
>stun
>oh shit the other people hes with are right there
>die
Stop playing as a lone wolf or stop playing against retards. Mcree is good a distance good at taking out a single target up close and flanking for high noon.
If you bitch about Mcree next thing you're going to do is bitch about is Roadhog and Mei.
>>339683301
>Someone here said headshots don't fall off so I just believed it. I don't play McCree or Widowmaker so I don't know the mechanics of headshots.
>I don't know the mechanics but let me argue forever about how OP McCree is because /v/ said so
fucking lol
>>339683532
Sure you are and i'm the queen of England
>>339683573
So you're being a retard? Do you also walk up to people with Zenyatta and Hanzo? McCree excels at 1v1 situations, just as Reaper does.
Why does flashbang do damage?
Why does flashbang stun from behind?
>>339683631
But I never said his M1 made him OP.
>>339683573
But Roadhog and Mei are next on the nerfing block after McCree? Or do you think it's okay for a tank to be able to oneshot more than half the cast whenever he wants? Or for a single character to be literally unbeatable 1v1?
>>339683829
Why doesn't the flashbang require any aiming?
Why can McCree FTH twice during the stun?
Why is there a stun in an FPS?
The answer to all these questions:Because Blizzard is clueless
>FUCKING NERF MCCREE HE STUNNED ME AND THEN KILLED ME WITH 12 SHOTS
>meanwhile roadhog has triple Mccrees health, has a long range stun, a shotgun that one or two shots people,heals himself and said one shot shotgun also is viable at medium range
>>339683862
>Roadhog
>that feel when you get hooked by him as Zenyatta
>>339683862
They are? Mei really isn't an issue unless she sneaks up on you and Roadhog has range issues minus his hook. I barely pick him when I can pick either D.Va or Winston instead.
Take 5 damage off every bullet he shoots or make his normal fire rate higher and reduce his accuracy for fanning
>>339684086
I know this is bait and you know it's disingenuous to say he needs 12 shots when the important part is that it only takes 3 seconds.
So here's your (You), now please fuck off.
>>339684086
>Pick Russian dyke
>teammate gets hooked
>apply shield
>get that sweet damage
The only problem is that his health ability isn't canceled easily. It should have a threshold where its shut down after taking a certain amount of health during its use.
>>339683416
Everything you mentioned about firing while having a loss of control of your character is the definition of bad game design.
You lost control of your character. You shouldn't be able to do shit.
CC is healthy for a game like Overwatch.
>You can dodge CC therefore you need to git gud or shute thee fuk up.
>>339684193
>it only takes 3 seconds
In your mind it does.
I'm curious as to why his flashbang stuns half the roster.
>Genji is robot
>Bastion is robot
>Zennyatta is robot
>D.Va in a robot with protective screens
>76 wears advanced tacticool visor
>Lucio black Skrillex used to loud noises and bright lights
>Symmetra uses light as part of her job and wears special visor
>Toblerone has one eye and has a welding mask
>>339684292
>completely losing control of your character for having a shitty Pyro ripoff look at you for a second is good game design in a first person shooter
are faggots really this desperate to keep pubstomping that they try to justify broken characters?
>>339684292
>You lost control of your character. You shouldn't be able to do shit.
That is indeed the problem.
Stuns have no place in an FPS.
>You can dodge CC therefore you need to git gud or shute thee fuk up.
You can't dodge McCree's stun and it's extremely difficult to dodge Mei's if you haven't got an escape ability.
>>339683862
roadhog is an F tier character
he will be buffed if anything
>>339684607
Then why do I see him every game?
>>339681341
he isnt meant to be medium range though
>>339684659
because of the "team needs a tank but i want to play dps" crowd
>>339684659
Because you are bad and play with shitters on console
>>339684368
Its
A
Video
Game
Make the rolling animation a real roll, i.e. screen actually spins.
>>339676647
Christ that art is ugly.
>>339680593
most reasonable idea in the thread is this + capped damage/cooldown on fth so that he cant shred tanks or 2v1
>>339684718
I only use my console for single-player games and fighters. I haven't played a multiplayer FPS on console in years.
>>339684708
The fact that he's so good at both is why I'm questioning the assertion that he's F-tier.
>>339684442
>are faggots really this desperate to keep pubstomping that they try to justify broken characters?
Are you really crying about Mei? Get good.
>Hurr durr what is Pharah, McCree, Junkrat, Roadhog
>What is mobility
>What is countering
>What is balance
>What is..
>>339656732
Only 150 damage for a full 6 shots?
>>339684921
go fuck yourself you unoriginal piece of shit
>>339684659
The hook is fun as hell
>>339684921
I keep saying that Dva is alright as is, but people want her to be buffed.
works for me, but i dont think she really needs it, i've been doing fine with her
>>339684921
The problem with Mei isn't that she's OP but that she's frustrating to play against. Losing against Mei isn't fun and neither is losing against McCree's flashbang or Roadhog's hook.
What do these have in common? They all stun you and then make you wait to die. It's like adding a few seconds to your respawn timer.
>>339685046
Every time they buff her, I laugh and pub stomp harder.
>>339685135
ahhh so its not just me.
>>339685046
I don't think she's that bad, I just find it hard to justify playing her over Winston.
They both kind of fill the same niche. Jump into the enemy backline, fuck a few squishy heroes up, get out.
Winston has an easier time staying on top of who he jumps on.
ayo, HOL UP NOW
*fans the hammer*
*tips cowboy hat*
Thank ya kindly
>>339685207
She fucks up Winston though, Winston simply can't damage her.
>>339685207
Personally, I think Winston is incredibly boring.
>>339684504
>Stuns have no place in an FPS.
That's why Overwatch isn't completely a FPS.
>You can't dodge McCree's stun and it's extremely difficult to dodge Mei's if you haven't got an escape ability.
You can dodge McCree's stun. It's called predicting it and using mobility or utility to block it or not being 5ft infront of him. Oh, man, I've never heard of counter play or balance in a game. Mei's OP. Waaaaaaaah, I'm playing a character with no mobility.
>>339685187
Nothing quite like watching a Widowmaker panic when she realizes you're right next to her.
>>339685274
While this is true, D.Va wouldn't be the usual target for Winston unless his team was nearby.
>>339684086
WHAT I WANNA KNOW IS WHERE'S THE PAYLOAD
>>339685340
>That's why Overwatch isn't completely a FPS.
>You can dodge McCree's stun.
>counter play
>McCree's stun
>>339685046
knowing blizzard if they buff her and realize it was a mistake instead of reverting it they will just over nerf
>>339685058
Losing isn't fun in general. This becomes another git gud scenario.
His flashbang not stunning you but blinding you instead
>>339685465
Just don't let McCree look in your general direction. :^)
>>339685360
indeed, nothing quite like it, and then they try to jump away with their hook, unsuspecting that you are flying right behind her
>>339685506
That's what im fearing, when the first BlazBlue came out, I mained Rachel and was considered the best character, later when they decided to patch teh game, they made her the worst
>>339685465
>be genji
>know a mccree is trying to ambush due to spurs
>reflect flashbang, triple shuriken headshot and nothin personnel teleport for dead flint westwood
>>339685575
Losing is much less frustrating when it feels fair. Dying to a stun never feels fair in an FPS, and it's much worse in the case of Mei or McCree since they don't actually need to aim to stun you.
>>339685678
Haha, good joke! Get out of here if you're not maxing the APM charts. You're too weak for this scene.
>>339685717
What happens when he doesn't flashbang and just shoots you twice?
>>339685934
implying he can aim
>>339685934
You just shoot him twice back.
>>339685934
Then the bullets get reflected instead
>>339685739
only time I get somewhat mad is against Mei, because she freezes you and fucks up your movement, has enough life that it's more likely she will freeze you before you can kill her.
can freeze herself and somewhat heal (i think she can heal herself a bit) for 4 seconds and then suddenly unfreeze herself and setup an ice wall in front of you to get away
makes it feel very frustrating, I just hate playing against her, I dont want a nerf, It just means I need to get better, but I'll be damned if I dont think its frustrating.
>>339685919
I want to impregnate Hana
>>339685575
Overwatch is like a pure example of why shooters dont do these things, they're absolutely fucking infuriating to lose to because you have no control over it. Dying because some guy stunned you and auto killed you is not fun, and its why i cant play for more than an hour without losing my mind.
>>339685934
Reflect still works on bullets.
The real question is what to do when he predicts your prediction and just waits out the reflect.
>>339685739
Like I've said before Overwatch is not your average Call of Duty FPS. It has MOBA like features.
>McCree has to be 5ft next to you.
>Mei aims at you and is relatively close to you
>>339653942
>Damage caps
>Literally lol-tier balancing
Increase flashbang cooldown, increase damage drop off so he can't snipe, and take out the bonus damage flash does altogether.
+Increase Combat Roll's distance from 6 meters to 8 meters
-Stun does not affect someone's back
-Combat Roll does not auto-reload anymore
If you talk to any sensible person, the ability to solo tanks effortlessly is not very balanced. These changes makes McCree choose his battles more carefully than just Stun-Hammer-Roll-Hammering anyone. As compensation, mobility is increased for his roll as a quick escape to reload
manually or to just run away. Left click is good guys, please use it more.
>>339685717
>be genji
>know a mccree is trying to ambush due to spurs
>pop my reflect
>he throws his flashbang at my feet
>can't nothin personnel teleport 'cause i'm dead fairy ninja :*(
>>339653942
I like this
>>339686110
Practice countering said problems. Stop crying about them. Try the said "broke" character for yourself. Find out what naturally beats them. Develop a method for your main or whatever you're doing to beat them.
You shitters advocating the removal of his flashbang realize that would completely unbalance the game right? All but the lowest levels of play would become gengi/tracer fests.
>>339686140
>obese chinese woman wins any encounter with a fat australian guy in a mask just by breathing in his general direction
bravo blizzard
>>339685058
I'd say Roadhog's hook isn't that cancerous
Look at dota. How many people get legitimately salty over Pudge hooking them?
>>339686326
nigger shut up. if you turn a corner and are face to face with a mccree, YOU ARE DEAD. that is why this game sucks.
>>339686140
>It has MOBA like features.
But it doesn't have progression, lanes, items, mana or really anything MOBA-like apart from abilities with cooldowns.
It's an FPS with special abilities and stuns are frustrating as fuck in any FPS. You can keep saying IT'S NOT AN FPS but it absolutely is an FPS.
Mei's gun fires a continuous and fairly wide stream so she has to be mentally handicapped to "miss" the stun.
McCree just has to be near you. That's it. He doesn't even have to aim.
>>339686326
>If you can cope with it it's not a problem
I bet you think Zed is a healthy assassin.
>>339686360
>the only way to beat genji/tracer is by having a stun in the game
Truly the most balanced of games
>>339686369
I don't think Roadhog's hook is cancer for two reasons:
1) He has to aim, unlike Mei and McCree
2) For most of the stun duration, he's tied up in an animation, so it's harder for him to abuse it
It is pretty frustrating to get hooked as any squishy, though, and the reason for that is that it's pretty much down to luck whether you'll get to activate your escape ability before he one-shots you from full health.
The only way I can reasonably compare Mei's primary weapon to something else is if you took Natascha, got rid of the damage penalty, added a mechanic where the Heavy could fire a chunk of bullets capable of headshotting, and made the slowdown mechanic so significant that firing at someone for half a second just completely shuts down out of even using their mouse
It's not fucking good game design
just give fan the hammer a cooldown. it is literally such a simple fix i cant believe how incompetent blizzard is.
>>339652423
Make fan fire slightly slower. It'll hurt his time-to-kill on tanks, even with his roll.
It won't really affect his TTK on 200 or bellow heroes unless you miss a lot.
>>339652423
On my dick
>>339686780
it does have a cooldown, it's called reloading
>>339667816
There's never 5 McCrees. You need a lucio, Reinhardt, mercy and widowmaker, and maybe trade widowmaker for McCree if it's a bad map for her.
McCree is just the best close range dps guy, and that's his role, his weaknesses are made up for by the rest of the team, and 5 McCree's would get steamroller by the other team with a widow on it.
>>339669753
DELETE THIS
>>339686847
>roll
Waow
>>339686945
>rolling isn't on a cd
WAOW
>>339686451
This is how class based shooters function. Removing the ability to immobilize the highest mobility characters in the game means those two have no real counters other than a good sniper.
>I've been watching McCree carefully since we've released. McCree's flashbang plays an important role in being a strong option against very fast/agile teams (tracers/genjis/etc). It is also a nice tool to prevent close range devastating abilities and ultimates such as Reaper's Death Blossom.
>That said, its probably a bit too good at dealing damage to higher health targets such as Tanks and barriers. I don't have any concrete changes yet, but I'm going to be testing some things internally to see how he plays.
Flashbang ain't getting nerfed, Fan is getting the shaft somehow.
If fan the hammer only is reduced by 10 damage and his flashbang no longer does damage all of McCree's problems are fixed without breaking his usefulness
Reduce D.Va's nuke timer by 1s and add 1dmg to the max per pellet
Change 50 of Zenyatta's shields to armor
Change Widowmaker's HP to 150, 50 of which are shield.
>>339675719
Except for the fact that one McCree was changed for a widowmaker who can laugh as she shuts down McCrees.
Flashbang damage removed.
Flashbang cooldown increased from 10 to 12.
Combat Roll cooldown increased from 8 to 10.
Fan the Hammer reload time increased from 2 to 2.5.
It's that easy.
>>339687039
If the point of it is to have a chance against fast characters then just have it slow people down then just flat out stun them.
>>339687105
reducing damage per shot on fan the hammer doesn't really make sense, it's the same bullets coming out of the same gun. what they should do is reduce the speed or give it a hard cooldown seperate from the reload
>>339663362
>"I don't believe he needs nerfing at all"
>goes into detail about how he should be nerfed
Are you mentally ill?
>>339674501
>McRee breaks it in 1s at 420 damage
ok
>>339687252
*instead of flat out stunning them
>>339687252
The idea is to remove the agency from playing tracer since she can just blink in and out without repercussion. Slowing her doesn't stop her from getting away. Flashbang isn't getting nerfed for this exact reason.
I don't think he needs balancing, and everything here people suggest is pretty much going to take him to absolute garbage teir.
And then when teams use say, Reaper instead of McCree, they'll cry about Reaper being good close range DPS and then we start the downward power spiral until everyone can't do anything.
>>339687257
>doesn't really make sense
It doesn't need to make sense it is a competitive video game and TF2 did the same shit.
>>339652423
90% of people in this thread are fucking retarded.
Most of you just want to gut the entire fucking character.
All he needs is a 6 second cool down on his fan the hammer and he wouldn't be broken.
>>339686574
>1) He has to aim, unlike Mei and McCree
>unlike McCree.
Thanks for showing us how much of a shitter you are.
What if flashbang fucked your aim and slowed you a lot? You could still fight back and it fucks tracer/genji still
Decreasing damage with each shot of Fan The Hammer + remove roll to reload + damage falloff at long range.
EZ
>>339684504
>You can't dodge McCree's stun
Yes you can.
>>339687667
McCree doesn't have to aim w/ the FtH flashbang combo
Shit, he can throw the flashbang at his own feet and still stun you if you're within dry-humping distance. And FtH only needs 3 out of 6 shots dumped to kill any 200 HP hero in the game. He could practically spin and still get the kill.
>>339687721
>remove roll to reload
ok, but only if he can roll every 2 seconds
then he becomes mchedgehog
>>339669328
>>339669582
All this stretch and squash disney bullshit is literally animator wank, a 3D environment with semi-realistic proportions does not has the abstraction necessary to warrant such techniques. Most of disney's animation principles were created with cartoonish characters in mind.
Actual good animation is one that uses it's environment and acting to it's benefit, not one that tries to shoehorn tried-and-true concepts as the safest course of action because they don't really understand what made them work in the first place.
>>339652423
remove the knock off thing, its bullshit.
Make the flashbang so that it only stuns from the front. From the back, it slows similar to Mei's slowing effect.. Then give fan the hammer a small cool down (like 1 - 2 seconds). The flashbang is no longer a guaranteed stun, and he can no longer put out over 800 damage with two instant fan the hammers.
>>339676060
>could
I'll laugh if they playtest it, find out he's fine and decide to just put out a tweet saying use Widow, Hanzo, Genji or Roadhog to counter him.
>>339687504
This happened with destiny and the pace of the game's pvp ground to a halt.
>>339687905
>genji
When will this meme stop? No decent McCree is going to aim his flashbang directly at genji, they're going to throw it near him so that it still stuns w/ 0 chance to deflect.
>>339687789
>Shit, he can throw the flashbang at his own feet and still stun you if you're within dry-humping distance
Why are you in dry hump distance?
That's like trying to fight Widowmaker from 500m away and not moving.
Fuck McCree, buff fucking Pharah or turn down the aggressiveness of turrets. No reason I should be getting shot a mile away, fucking dwarf shitter.
fuck off shill
You can't have a circle with a dot in the center w/o bloom as Soldier 76.
>mfw
>>339681095
Her turrets literally rely on surprise to kill people, they are not actually defending anything. When placing then you are hoping they kill whoever goes through before they realize what's happening.
And god help you if it's a Winston.
He will destroy every turret immediately.
>>339688008
>buff fucking Pharah
This. Pharah needs either more direct/splash damage and/or like 50 additional health/armor
>>339688003
Because sometimes you have no choice or say in the matter. Like a McCree that drops down the hole at Nepal KotH and rolls up behind a crew focused on 2 monkies that just jumped in and are going bananas.
>Just have a guy posted at the hole waiting for the McCree
>Just have eyes in the back of your head
>Just Git Gud!
>>339687343
maybe puts all abilities on cooldown for 1.5 seconds?
>>339652423
PEW PEW PEW
>>339687938
Well, looks like the cycle starts anew with Overwatch then.
>>339687994
They do if they panic, especially since you'd aim directly at everyone else so you don't fucking miss them like a retard.
>>339688065
Christ, I'm glad I'm not the only person who feels that way. Circle shaped aiming reticle actually make me aim better.
>>339688202
So your argument is that Genji counters bad McCrees
>>339688167
FtH already has a 1.5s cooldown. That's his reload
>>339688156
Same with Widowmaker, Roadhog, Hanzo, ults and 90% of shit. You never see it coming, and thus you've got no choice in the matter about being in their crosshairs because they're instakilling you from 100m away.
That shit applies for all sorts of things, and is not unique to McCree by any stretch.
>>339653196
Soldier is fine since he has a heal. Pharah's HP is fine as well, though she could use something for while she's ulting, like bastion, and maybe the option to cancel her ult.
have a cooldown on hammer fan so you can only get one off on somebody
decrease hammer fan damage slightly
>>339687714
What is sword dash and double jump
What is rewind and dash
>>339688287
No, I mean the flashbang
doesn't stun anymore, but puts all abilities on cooldown for a bit so Tracers can't just zip out
>>339688093
I agree on more direct. She should wreck 200 hp and under heroes with one direct. Rockets should do more damage to built structures and a bastion in turret mode too
>>339687662
>cool down on FTH
no stop
The entire reason his character has a roll is to reload for 2 FTHs. It doesn't grant i-Frames. It's mainly not for mobility. You don't need it for single shot shooting.
McCree's problem extends from the amount of damage he is able to do in 2s being way higher than any other attacker can do in the same amount of time without ults. Do the math. 890 damage is too much. It needs to be reduced so that one FTH does not kill a Zarya and 2 FTHs will only kill a Roadhog with excellent precision. Setting damage to 60 accomplishes this. Single shot damage does not need to be changed. Flashbang should also not do damage.
>>339688287
They're a bad McCree if they're literally aiming away from their target to where if it's not Genji they'll fucking throw it right past them, or short. Is the new meme that you always throw flashbangs at your feet like a retard?
Get rid of fan the hammer altogether, increase his regular fire rate
>>339674210
have reinhardt able to charge her and roadhog able to hook her while frozen
>>339688337
Except those players have to aim
All of them do
Whereas McCree doesn't.
I'd make some better fucking maps
Constant tiny chokepoints, narrow alleys, small rooms, pitfalls - this bullshit map design clearly favors certain characters over others. Half the reason I think people think most characters are OP are because the maps favor them greatly over others.
>>339688407
>get rid of a stereotypical gunslinger technique from spaghetti western movies on a stereotypical spaghetti western gunslinger
>>339688338
Pharah with TF2 soldier's rocket launcher would be fucking insane
>>339688395
>McCree's problem extends from the amount of damage he is able to do in 2s being way higher than any other attacker
Because that's all he can do. He's pure DPS, McCree's got nothing else going for him. No mobility, no defense, no self healing, nothing. His one and only saving grace is that he is a blender for anything inside of 10m.
>>339688403
You don't have to hit any player directly w/ the flash to stun them. None of them
Not a single character in the game needs the flashbang to directly hit them to stun them. So aiming in their general direction works on everyone, not just genji.
>>339666252
>be widow
>start of anubis
>zen puts an orb on me
>put a bullet in his ass
>orb falls off
>>339688525
This this this this this
>>339688589
>inside of 10mIT'S HIGH NOON
>>339688093
>>339688361
She already does quite a bit on direct and you can shoot 6 rockets before you have to reload
Splash damage seems a bit inconsistent at times, though. More the most part, Pharah is fine. If you encounter a turret or Bastion, just use cover to peak out and fire quickly
>>339688583
Makes about as much sense as making sure a close quarters duelist can't actually win at close quarter duels, which is what 99% of the suggestions break down into.
>>339688646
IT'S HIGH ARRRRGGGGHHHH
I don't even bother moving out most of the time, now I just activate it to get people to hide and let the team move up while they're in cover.
>>339688065
Please blizz, please fix the bloom bug on the circle crosshair.
>>339688501
You really think ricochet arrows or roadhogs shotgun require more aiming than FtH?
>>339688593
It's got an AOE, but if they're dryhumping close you can literally throw it past them and it'll explode behind them and you'll get nothing.
I'll tell you how they're GOING to balance him, based off what they're talking about as changes right now
stun duration inversely proportional to HP
D.Va will be able to shoot her blasters while flying.
>>339688658
The problem with that is that if the bastion/turret is in a certain spot where you have to rocket boost upwards to hit it, you're stuck waiting for that cooldown to refresh and it's slow as shit.
Turn his flashbang into an EMP Flashbang.
Make his EMP Flashbang silence and blind enemies.
Tanks can still do their jobs but the fast assault will have a harder time. (What Mccree was intended to do).
Blinded and silence enemies can still do shit and won't complain about just insta-dying.
They'll still probably lose to Mccree but at least you have more room for counter play.
>>339683416
>Roadhog players would actually have to think about who and when they hook.
You know that will never happen they fucking hook exploding D.va mechs.
>>339652423
Nerf his fan, of course. It should be a backup for him, not his primary attack.
>>339688658
Yeah seriously. She is already incredibly strong.
"That said, it's probably a bit too good at dealing damage to higher health targets such as Tanks and barriers. I don't have any concrete changes yet, but I'm going to be testing some things internally to see how he plays."
Goodman clarified that McCree's flash/fan ability, during which he can hit a target with a flashbang to stun opponents, then empty his entire clip at once, is what Blizzard is looking at tweaking specifically.
"By saying 'it's probably a bit too good at dealing damage to higher health targets,' I mean his flash/fan combo, not the flash itself. Fan is more likely to see changes than flash at this point."
Either Fan's RoF will be reduced or damage will be reduced. Nothing else is changing, fags.
>>339688583
It's a dumb move that ensures that McCree can, unless you're totally retarded, kill someone who's close to you. There's no other character that's a guaranteed death of you run into him at close range like that except for fucking McCree so I don't give a fuck how iconic it is that shit needs to go or be nerfed so that it doesn't mean an instakill for 200 hp heroes. I have a fucking pavlovian response of rage when I see a McCree run up to me, I already know I'm fucking dead. His E + right click combo requires no skill or aim to get kills and it needs to go.
>>339688836
which is why i said >>339687789
>Shit, he can throw the flashbang at his own feet and still stun you
>>339688817
Hanzos split arrow shit can get some cheap as fuck kills, I won't deny that. Roadhog hook requires literally infinite more accuracy than a McCree flashbang.
>>339688838
Honestly, if they even do anything, they'll probably just make it so that each FTH shot is 50 at all ranges instead of the usual shit.
You won't be able to hit shit at long range, so not a big deal, mid range is unaffected, and short range takes some of the sting out of the fan-roll-fan combo against tanks while still vaporizing squishies so he still does well 1v1.
>>339688972
What is Mei?
>>339653385
>implying a good mccree cant fan the hammer from mid range
Try using the DOT reticle. have fun never missing
>>339688972
hold up now
>>339688985
Yeah, but you wouldn't want to get into that habit, especially since it doesn't work well for most situations and is better to throw at your target, instead of just wasting your flash on the off chance you get a genji running around a corner.
>>339687767
When it comes to balancing McRee we like to assume that the player controlling McRee is at least halfway competent and can aim his flashbang.
>>339684893
>The fact that he's so good at both
He's a shit tank tho and so is his dps, The only thing really good about him is the hook.
>>339684292
Except "loss of control" is actually one of the fundamental examples of bad game design, you idiot. In fact, crowd control abilities versus players are one of the major things to avoid when designing pvp. OW gets a free pass because "muh wow arena"
>>339688093
Rockets do 120 damage already, which means 2 for Tracer/Zen and 3 for a lv 2 turret
At most this can go up by 20
>>339652423
Id would remove the area of effect from the flashbang, requiring a direct hit to stun someone.
>>339656185
winston counters her harder
>>339688972
>There's no other character that's a guaranteed death of you run into him at close range like that except for fucking McCree
Roadhog.
He actually will straight up beat out McCree at close distance most of the time.
GET OVER HERE!
>>339689063
Mei is not a 200 hp hero and a non shit McCree can still kill her without much issue.
flash blinds, only stuns if it's a direct hit
fan has greatly increased accuracy and greatly increased damage falloff at every range, you should only kill with it if you're on top of the enemy and it should not be such heavy rng
roll adds 3 bullets
but blizzard are the same geniuses who buffed mei 4 times in a row and will probably buff mcreeee as well
>>339689248
As much mobility as she has Tracer should be dead with one direct.
>>339667386
this. this is the best way to balance him
>>339689184
So once again, you're saying that Genji counters bad McCrees? Besides, in the time-frame we're talking (literally instant react time), can a genji even notice that his enemy is a McCree and trigger the reflect before McCree just straight flashbangs?
We're talking Genji has to recognize his opponent and hit the reflect before McCree just spams his flashbang at whatever and fans. Assuming players of equal skill, I don't think it's possible, and is fluky as shit at best.
>>339689194
Funny, because none of that extends to any of these theoretical opponents.
Apparently it's not that McCree is unbalanced, but apparently people's IQs get cut in half when they see his gruff visage.
>>339666252
>D.va needs small buffs.
Just make it so that Mercy's ult resurrects her back in a mech instead of her worthless zerosuit mode. I fucking hate being the healbitch when she is my only tank.
>>339689331
>mfw when I play winston and give tracers the hot monkey dick
Rewind, shift away, it doesn't matter.
You're fucking dead, kiddo.
Remove him, reaper does his job
>>339689464
What you suggest, throwing your shit at your feet on the off chance of a Genji, is a worse fucking tactic than just going direct throw, which works with the other 20 characters.
You're tactic would get people raped by about 12 other characters that could randomly pop around a corner on the off chance they'd meet Genji.
>>339688356
Thats just as bad as getting stunned since tracer literally cannot do shit except die without her abilities
flashbang now only disarms enemies so they can keep dodging
fan the hammer can't get headshot bonus damage
>>339689629
Well how else do you counter her? Some heroes are supposed to hard counter others
>>339675916
>junkrats trap can be destroyed by victim
i think this should be a thing desu...
>>339689619
you weren't given them guns to toss em around like trash
>>339689624
I'm saying he
>can
throw it at his own feet and still get the stun, and I said that specifically to illustrate that he doesn't need to fucking aim w/ it to actually get the stun
What I'm trying to say to you, is that he can aim near and opponent and still get the stun. If the player is fucking on his jock like no business, he can trigger it and look straight down and then back up, assuming dpi is high enough.
Once again, this fucking genji counters mccree bullshit is basically predicated that the McCree is fucking terrible or the Genji can
SEE THE FUTURE
REFLECT THE FLASHBANG
with his instant as shit reaction time and pro-skills
>>339684659
>Then why do I see him every game?
Hog has by far the least dependence on your team to perform well. This is both his strength and weakness since even a great hog can't really do much actual pushing. I'm still grateful for seeing one on the team if he prioritizes keeping Tracers off our support.
>>339687789
You honestly dont even need the flashbang for 200hp heroes, I legit don't even use single shots I always go for FtH
>>339683416
>junkrat's trap is literally worse than all of those
>nobody ever gives a shit
Seriously it's like 5-6 seconds of not being able to fucking move. That's basically a death sentence, ESPECIALLY if junkrat is around.
>>339689837
Why would genji need to see the future?
Widowmaker better get toned down too.
>2 second charge for massive damage
>No recoil on shots
>Shot shot shot shot one after another in sniper mode
>Slow on E and decent machine gun when not scoped in
>Escape on Shift
She's so strong. She's even stronger when you get a good player who realizes that aiming for headshots isn't worth it for the most part and that bodyshots will work just fine.
>>339690075
All the trap needs is to require the target to actually stand on it, not home in and leap 5 yards in the direction of the closest leg. What the fuck were they thinking with that?
>>339652423
Stop time.
>>339690252
It needs a longer arm time is the biggest issue.
It's literally out and able to trap you in under a second.
As somebody who plays junkrat alot, you can basically toss it directly on people and they can't do shit.
>>339653385
I love that you and the retards that responded to this don't realize that this fucks the balance heavily in favor of tracer and genji and that you'll be bitching about them as soon as this happens.
>>339690216
>Shot shot shot shot one after another in sniper mode
Fuck this shit. So many killcams have been Widowmaker missing 3 or 4 shots in rapid succession trying to hit me before managing to graze my leg twice and kill me. What's the point of making a sniper hero if you don't actually need aim with her.
>>339689243
>Except "loss of control" is actually one of the fundamental examples of bad game design
>>339685058
Roadhog's hook isn't too bad. Fuck, I more often than not manage to escape after a hook.
>>339690519
you fight some shitty ass roadhogs then, I'd saw getting away from one is like a 1 in 10 at best due to it releasing you in a odd fasion
>>339673893
Reinhardt can break it with his charge but that's it.
>>339681319
??
Zenyatta is easily the most boring support to play.
>>339683249
you mean low risk high reward
>>339686228
I'd allow Combat Roll's reload to be sacrificed if the meter range was increased. Beyond that I feel Fan The Hammer should really have an 8 second cooldown to mitigate spam. McCree's damage is satisfactory enough.
>>339691873
True self
is without form
>>339692287
It really is a shame how boring he is to play. His design is really cool.
>>339680120
fuck off
why do people like you always live in stupid fantasies that youre the smartest player in the world and everyone else is fucking retarded
seriously, dont underestimate other players just because they arent you.
>>339693330
Maybe he's a shitter and keeps losing which puts him in the retard matchmaking tier which also makes his teammates retards
>>339693680
forced 50 is real though
>>339692287
>omnic
>shoes
>shirt
yep, its shit
>>339693896
Well yeah, it's a matchmaking system
>get more ranking, play against better people
>don't be good enough to win against those people, lose ranking
>end up at 50% since that's your exact skill level
>>339693979
Dunkyatta is going to be a thing
You know it to be true
PSA PSA PSA PSA PSA PSA:
BLIZZARD HAS SAID THAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT MCCREE RIGHT NOW BUT HIS FLASHBANG WILL NOT BE CHANGED.
FAN THE HAMMER IS MOST LIKELY IN VIEW.
ALL THEY WANT TO DO IS KEEP MCCREE FROM MELTING TANKS, BUT THEY STILL WANT HIM TO BE A CLOSE-QUARTERS 1V1 MASTER ABLE TO COUNTER TRACER AND GENJI WITH HIS FLASH LIKE NO OTHER
IF YOU'RE NOT A TANK YOU WILL STILL GET FUCKED HARD AND WE'RE LAUGHING AT YOU FOR IT
AND BEFORE DVAS THINK THE NERF WILL MAKE THEM SAFE, REMINDER THAT DVA IS PLAYED EXCLUSIVELY BY DROOLING BETA ORBITERS AND SHE'S AN EASY KILL FOR EVERYBODY, NOT JUST MCCREE
>An Offense class shouldn't be able to destroy a bad Tank
>>339691751
he cant break it, it stops him. you might just be charging at the last second
The real problem with McCree isn't grenade or FTH. That's the design of the champ; he's the strongest short range character in the game in a 1v1 situation, but he's squishy.
The problem is his left click. If you've been watching the tourneys or playing the Gosugamer weekly stuff, people are running 2+ McCree's who proceed to sit behind Reinhardt shields and left click everything down.
They just need to keep him in his niche better. Slightly lower FTH's damage, and remove right click's perfect accuracy (or lower damage drastically at anything longer than medium range). That keeps him as the premier short range duelist, as he should be.
>>339694493
>McCree will keep infuriating me by throwing his flashbang 3m from me and hitting through the aoe
Well okay
I can deal with every other cheap shit in the game but that's just terrible
>>339690075
you can still shoot and use escapes in the trap unlike every other example given
>>339653942
Now Genji will escape unless you:
1. Manage to hit all the shots
2. Manage to get the right click off as soon as he is stunned unless you want him to reflect the last few back in your face
It needs a damage nerf, but definitely not that heavy.
>>339652423
make his flashbang on hit, and not AoE
THERE, FUCKING FIXED
>>339684950
Kills tracer who he is meant to counter. Leaves most other squishies at 50-100hp which he can easily take out in another shot or two.
>>339690212
because mcree doesn't need to hit genji with the flashbang to get him in the flashbang aoe stun
so the only way genji could reflect it is if he can see the fucking future and just manage to reflect the flash bang that wasn't thrown directly at him
>>339666252
>I'd say buff Zenyatta, but if we could just get those nerfs to Widowmaker, that'd be all the buffs he needed since he wouldn't be getting killed by a bodyshot everytime he tried to leave spawn.
Hanzo exists.
>>339684086
the problem with roadhog is that even though he's powerful, he has no armor so most of the time he's just feeding the enemy team ultimates
>>339696540
>Leaves most other squishies at 50-100hp which he can easily take out in another shot or two.
After emptying his chamber, retard? Good plan. Nice balance.
So it's a bad idea to charge a roadhog 1v1 right? Even if you hit him with the charge he has his shotgun+hooks
Also, what's the damage for melee attacks?
>>339696857
It's almost like it'll give the enemy a chance and the McCree will need to think beyond "hit FB and RMB"
Also he can roll.
>>339697326
If you dodge the hook as mcree you can kill roadhog in 2 seconds with
E, RMB, Shift RMB combo, busts any tank
>>339697494
I meant as reinhardt, sorry
>>339697557
If you have slash ready you can charge + slash and maybe need to melee and he should die if he didnt react heal. Just make sure he blows his hook on your shield first
>>339697447
> think beyond "hit FB and RMB"
All of the classes are super shallow when it comes to "combos" of any sort. Don't kid yourself.
>>339697662
t. High Noon man
>>339680394
>tfw my double cap achievement was all pharah/mercy on anubis
>right after locking them out with bastreinmercy
>they tried the same shit and got rolled
>>339684086
hahahaha that file name
>>339673776
because then he could roll at widowmakers without getting headshot because she shot where his head was originally. his hitbox doesn't even lower when he rolls, it stays exactly the same.
wait i picked him because he looked cool, does that mean everyone thinks i'm a faggot now?
>>339673629
>invisibility
![tumblr_o6s8ulIOpa1sffcqno1_500[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/EESbvZh.gif "tumblr o6s8ulIOpa1sffcqno1 500[1]")
