Can we all agree that he did more harm than good to the PC gaming industry?
t. underage
>>339618019
No.
>>339618019
Seriously, how fucking ignorant do you have to be to remotely even believe this. I don't even have to explain shit just look at was PC gaming was then compared to now. Because of him PC gamers can pretty much skip the idea of having to get a console.
>>339618019
You may dislike steam as a platform, but thanks to steam stuff like gog, humble bundle, origin, etc. got it easier to start up, since it helped indie game studios and aaa studios/publishers get on somewhat even ground, as well make a standardized method for buying and downloading games.
>>339618273
>Om nom om oh gaben cock tastes so good
This fat fuck had literally nothing to do with the growth of the PC industry. It happened as console hardware became more and more similar to PC hardware allowing publishers to make easy money creating ports of existing titles on a new platform, which became more important due to rising development costs.
God I fucking hate you gabenfags.
>>339618019
No.
you're a retard
>>339618019
>Valvedrones in this thread
>>339618093
>t.
>>339618802
>literally nothing to do with the growth of the PC industry
You can't honestly believe that can you? That valve and by extension steam didn't affect the growth of pc games?
>>339618019
What exactly did he do?
>>339618019
Hes pretty much video game jesus
no one remembers all the hl2 backpeddling, sad days
+Golden source engine games
+Source engine games
+Is pretty open to modding unless It comes to knives
-Disgusting unbox system that ends up being really well disguised gambling that grows on underage and retards
-Lazy fuck lately
-takes too much credit for other people's work
-meme console
It's a love-hate relationship.
>>339618273
°wow extremeist over here
the contrast between 2010 /v/ and present /v/'s opinions on valve and gabe is hilarious.
>>339618019
>he did more harm than good to the PC gaming industry?
Curbed pirating due to Steam seasonal sales, where people would buy games that they had no intention of ever playing due to the prices.
Gave PC gamers the auto-detect tools to set up games quickly, without compatibility problems.
Made PC gaming relevant again
Before...
Influencing companies to increase prices during seasonal sales.
Introducing the refund program in a way so excessive that he'll be able to use an excuse to heavily regulate refunds in the future (enjoy it while it lasts)
Pushed hard for paid mods, in which publishers and Valve take well over 50% of the profits for themselves.
Created Steam controllers and introduced the heavily deceptive concept of a "Steam Machine", in which third-parties can sell vastly overpriced PC hardware to suckers.
>starbucks
>starbucks bottled coffee no less
Only men with no taste drink charbucks
>>339619374
No wonder. Anyone who'd been here for 6 years would hate literally everything
>brought Steam and games to GNU Master Race and gave people a real goddamn alternative to Windows and Mac botnets
GABE IS A FUCKING SAINT
>>339619276
>-Lazy fuck lately
People keep calling him a lazy fat cunt that does nothing but eat shit and swim in money but does anyone outside of valve have any idea what he does every day?
>>339618019
>starbucks """""coffee"""""
Even Wawa is better than that swill
what the fuck is up with valve hate threads lately? theres literally 3 on right now
>>339619907
it's because of GOG connect
>>339618019
He helped make PC gaming larger than its ever been, which helped bring many games that would have been console exclusive to PC. Worth it IMO
>>339619907
gog shills
>>339618019
Having a centralized distribution platform isn't bad as such.
If there's anything bad about Valve and by extension steam it's the unprofessional manner in which they run their business.
It took them forever to implement refunds and it basically took legal action for that to happen.
If there's one thing I think that characterizes far too much of Valve it's implementing/releasing or breaking something big just before a weekend and then not releasing so much as an official statement over the weekend.
I agree.
People like their revisionist history of "Steam saved PC gaming" but the way I see it it's more like it acted like a phagocyte parasite, draining the vitality of the platform to its own gain.
For one, Valve made DRM accepted on the platform. For that alone the company deserves to die.
Undoubtedly
>>339618019
You wouldn't even be able to use the word industry today if not for this guy.
>>339620228
But think of all the multiplats that never got ported before steam got big.
>>339619907
I don't know, been there since valve made online activation mandatory for retail bought games, so almost a dozen years by now?
I just like to think people are catching up on how they're not a good thing at all. And I'm not going to complain if they do.
>>339618802
I'm glad to see you're even too retarded to simply understand that everything you mentioned would have never happened without a platform like steam to flourish on, never ever. If Steam wasn't there then something else just like it would have been needed to come along.
You go ahead and believe that all the major publishers that brought over their titles to steam would have done the same without such a platform however that will remain your pure delusional fantasy.
For fucks sake even the publishers themselves have expressed how Steam is what made them come along.
If steam was as bad as you claim it is then publishers wouldn't use it asswipe. Remember how EA and Ubisoft wanted to do their own thing? How did that go for them? How about all these smaller devs that would have never found the audience, the push or the security they looked for to start their project?
You're free to hate Steam all you want but to think that it did more harm than anything else to PC gaming is nothing short of a boring troll.
>>339618019
Fuck you. Praise Gaben!
>>339620282
...?
i think the console market did most of the footwork to creating an "industry"
He made it live in those dark ages of the mid 00's. He was honestly the hero PC never deserved, and made it flourish in an age of 150 million PS2s.
But like all things, he finally became the villain 10 years later, becoming the jew and stopped making any games.
Steam is still a fundamental good, but it is not nearly as good as it once was.
>Valve
>>339620383
a) You're telling this as if it's a goof thing.
b) I'd say Microsoft releasing a console with similar build to x86 platform and standardizing things across the board has more to do with it.
Not that I'm going to defend MS either, given how they shat on both PC and consoles.
>>339620634
>imgur
>>339618273
Steam is literal trash. No quality controls, shady business practices, and every valve game has thinly disguised micropayment systems (muh hats)
Just admit it, valve is cancer. Right up there with other PC developer/publishers like wargaming and blizzard
>>339618019
Yes.
>>339619691
He dicks around the office a lot apparently, doing odd jobs when it comes to programming. That's besides all the other stuff he does, meetings and the like. He's probably working 60 hours a week minimum.
When will this fat fuck get an heart attack so someone who actually loves video games could take over?
>>339618019
>>339620228
>GOG shills think if Steam was never made then we would be living in a DRM free paradise.
Give it a fucking break. DRM is the result of all the large publishers and developers wanting that. Here were the alternatives to Steam:
1. companies accelerate development of proto-Denuvo tier shit like Starforce
2. all large publishers just make their own client that's just a shit tier version of steam (e.g. Uplay, but now you have to have about 6 of them)
3. most games just don't come to PC
Why do you retards even do this? Is it because its just easier to attack Steam as a singular target, rather than every publisher that want DRM (basically all of them?)
>>339620461
>You go ahead and believe that all the major publishers that brought over their titles to steam would have done the same without such a platform however that will remain your pure delusional fantasy.
Yes, clearly, when Ubisoft couldn't implement its always online DRM schemes, it abandoned the PC platform altogether... oh wait, no it caved in because there was still money to be made, and they're a company in the business of making more.
If people had resisted those shitty client infrastructures, publishers would have swallowed their pride and continue to publish. Because the money would still be there to be made, whatever they may claim to the contrary.
>>339619691
he talks about his lifestyle in this interview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdSKWKZFdrU
>>339620776
>Steam
>>339620936
I'd really like to know how he feels about the steam machines. They don't seem to be selling at all
>>339619570
Been here since the beginning. I love /v/ for being so off-topic while still focusing on the boards topic vs boards like /co/, which heavily enforce rules even when discussion is within board rules.
>>339620967
I call bullshit on all three. Per >>339621021.
If there's no other way to make money, you think publishers are just going to stop publishing? Close the company, or tell share holders they're abandoning the biggest potential market because DRM isn't accepted?
It's impossible to tell without somehow looking at PC gaming without Valve rising to take it over
At his current state he's certainly taking steps to hurt it, but I'm not sure where we'd be right now without Valve propping up the market.
>>339620967
interesting point but many companies choose to use their own DRM and steamworks at the same time. so really steamworks is just another DRM service. additionally the steamworks DRM is bundled in with other steam features, so it often ends up in games that it might not have otherwise been in
>>339619374
2010 was when people still had a glimpse of hope for Ep3, Valve were still producing singleplayer games, and economy bullshit barely existed
>>339620967
Maybe if you valve dicksuckers weren't so obnoxious it wouldn't happen so much
>>339620967
By the way, Valve is only being singled out here for being the biggest and most successful, but any company that does the same obviously deserves the same treatment.
>>339621710
>Valve is only being singled out here for being the biggest and most successful
No, it's because they tried to sell mods, pushing for skinnerboxes in dota 2 and tf2 and NOT MAKING GAMES anymore
>middleman controlling the market earning billions for castrating consumer righty
>people on /v/ hate jews like EA or Ubisoft for creating cashgrabs but gobble down Gabens cum like no tomorrow
>>339620870
>No quality controls
What does that even mean? Are you saying Steam should have QA over every single title that they post on there? Of course not, it falls on a publisher to make sure their own game works.
>shady business practices
Again, another empty point, if you want to talk about that then be more specific otherwise your argument means nothing.
>every valve game has thinly disguised micropayment systems (muh hats)
Whether you agree or not on micro transactions of a very few games owned by Steam it has very little to do with the original post that stated that Steam, as a whole, had made more harm than good to PC gaming. You're pointing out a detail you don't like about a very specific game and that's all good and dandy but it doesn't relate at all to the subject at hand which is the WHOLE PC INDUSTRY.
From my point of view you just had a very bad experience with a few Steam made games and decided to take it out on Steam, as a publishing platform. You seem to have legitimate issues, but it's just not what's at hand here.
>>339621076
I don't really know what the point of them is in the first place. I can already easily hook up my PC to a TV or other broadcasting device. And I've already got a controller as well. Why would I want a steam machine?
>>339618019
No
>>339621882
Ok, let me rephrase.
>By the way, I'm only singling out Valve here for being the biggest and most successful, but any company that does the same obviously deserves the same treatment.
As said upthread, hated what the company wanted to achieve since it made online activation successful. Never gave them a cent. Fuckers. nd they have the hypocrisy to complain about Microsoft trying to close up the platform. Pot calling the kettle black.
>>339621229
>If there's no other way to make money, you think publishers are just going to stop publishing? Close the company, or tell share holders they're abandoning the biggest potential market because DRM isn't accepted?
No they will just focus on consoles and let PC fall by the wayside.
Valve did basically save PC gaming, although for reasons that are different than what you normally see.
Imagine the last 10 years where basically every complaint about PC gaming from the early 2000s is amplified X100. That it's fiddly, hard to get working etc.
We would have just had a decade where every publisher forced gamebreaking shit like starforce on everything regardless of how illogical it is, to the point where PC would almost be unusable as a gaming platform.
He did a lot of good, but also a lot of bad. It would be a lot worse if the paid mods actually went through though. I really don't understand how a man that started up a company solely based on mods becoming full games thinks that money is the only motivation for modders. How does one lose touch with oneself so much that you go against the opposite of who you were?
Yes he turned PCs into console shit
Steam is fucking garbage
>all these underage hating on the unbox and cosmetic systems of TF2 and CS:GO
Oh boo hoo, someone's making money! Crucify them!
Pay no mind to consoles and season passes with day 1 DLC, subscription fees for online, and top dollar amiibos which lock out even more cosmetic content. Valve is the bad guy here
>>339618019
The best business decision he made was convincing his consumers that he's their friend. He could sell your mom into slavery and you would still defend it.
>>339622547
Hi, rat. Thankfully I'm not a rat :)
>open steam
>99.99% of all games are indieshit shovelware with half of them over 10 dollars for pixel garbage nobody should ever be forced to play
>Triple A games you could get in physical form cheaper & steam application free
the thing that bothers me is that Gaben has stopped giving a fuck and holds everyone hostage since they own the PC market
>>339622220
>No they will just focus on consoles and let PC fall by the wayside.
Which again, is nice proposition and all, but one I find unsubstantiated given the very behavior of publishers. There would still had been money to be made on the platform. Some publishers would have filled that void to make that money.
A net positive would probably have been that we would have had less port from console games and more games specific to the platform. Hopefully preventing the averaging out of PC and consoles we've had to suffer those past 10 years. In no small part because of Valve.
>We would have just had a decade where every publisher forced gamebreaking shit like starforce
The idea was that Staforce too would be refused. Just fucking don't buy those shitty DRM-filled games. Again, are publishers going to tell their shareholders they're not targeting the biggest market becasue DRM ar being refused?
>>339622547
>if you don't suck Gaben cock you're underage
Quite the opposite, bub.
>>339622850
What the fuck kind of argument is that?
>>339622884
should stop buying those bundles
i know . i made the same mistake of buying a shitty bundle with 10 games to try 1
>>339621021
>If people had resisted those shitty client infrastructures, publishers would have swallowed their pride and continue to publish. Because the money would still be there to be made, whatever they may claim to the contrary.
This is where I disagree. While AAA companies like Ubisoft might have continued to money sink and stuck to their own thing the major of publishers would have found little interest in an extra investment to protect their games and simply would have preferred/stuck to console titles. I'm talking about a majority here, not just a few games here and there. If you go around and look at how publishers see Steam I'm sure a lot of them would never be on PC without it.
Does that make Steam perfect? No, as I stated before odds are if it wasn't for Steam somebody else would have came along. But in order for the platform to flourish the way it did over the past couple of years it needed an umbrella, one that was fairly cheap and didn't take away any of their I.P. Without it the biggest AAA dogs would really have a word on the market today and home consoles woulda just made that much more money.
>>339623104
>>339622850
>they say as they blindly support Nintendo and sony's abhorrent practices
I mean, yes, you have every right to complain about Steam greenlight and the paid mods which he tried to push, but your complaints completely fall flat if you'll turn right around and praise Uncharted or Mario Maker or Halo, since those """""games""""" are even worse for the industry and promote cancerous practices that drag down the quality of games in general.
>>339623119
You're the rat. Look up skinner box
Valve used to be good but they've fallen from grace really hard
The paid mods situation solidified Gabe as nothing more than a greedy cunt
>>339622547
Clearly, Microsoft is the bigger evil, we owe them so much of the shit that plagues the modern video game market.
That doesn't make Valve the good guy. Just the slightly less evil one, and only by virtue of holding less power other the platform and the market.
People always seem to forget where Newell worked before funding his company. The Valve apple didn't fall far from the Microsoft tree.
>>339623119
Obviously you like to be treated as a rat in a skinnerbox by your valve overlords, the rest of us that aren't cucks don't however
>>339623232
ebin strawmeme
>>339623371
>>339623313
Interesting argument. Pray tell, what games did you like this year that somehow don't have any bad practices involved in them?
>>339623212
>If you go around and look at how publishers see Steam I'm sure a lot of them would never be on PC without it.
We'll have to disagree on that one then.
If you look a it from a corporate perspective - at least that's what I got from my first-hand experiences, DRM isn't really a problem of money, it's a problem of control. Money is just the excuse. It would still be there in sizable amount without the DRM.
But then if the company have to relinquish control to make more money? Well it wall have to.
>>339618019
Nope.
>>339618093
>>339618121
>>339618273
>>339618851
>>339619119
>>339619218
>>339619616
>>339619667
>>339619907
>>339619981
>>339620282
>>339620516
>>339620461
>>339620967
>>339621710
>>339622049
>>339622104
>>339622547
>defending a company who literally shit on its fans by saying they see no need to make games anymore
>defending a company who gave rise to the judgmental pretentious indie developer scene
kill yourselves Valvedrones
>>339623232
>b.b.bbut Sony & Nintendo
Those compamies fucking wish they could pull schemes like steam does.
People are paying hundreds of dollars for skins and hats, you can't even play games you've bought if you get banned and you can do nothing, even when you just critisized it, shit games can be removed and re-released under a new name.
It's basically vaporware.
>>339623939
Quick question,do you even like video games?
>>339623998
>People are paying hundreds of dollars for skins and hats,
That's not my problem. When it involves content that affects the game, like weapons and powerups, and I can't get them through any means, then yes it can be misconstrued as unfair. But it's just cosmetics. It's the same reason why I dislike Nintendo's amiibos, but I'm willing to tolerate them as long as they never lock actual content behind them, just cosmetics. It's not afffecting my experience.
>you can't even play games you've bought if you get banned
Offline mode.
>shit games can be removed and re-released under a new name.
How is this steam exclusive?
>>339624173
Quick question, do you eat shit?
>>339624391
You didnt even answer my question
dont cut yourself on that edge boi
>>339623939
>>defending a company who literally shit on its fans by saying they see no need to make games anymore
So I should just '''punish''' valve by not buying games anymore and basically giving up gaming then?
>>339624340
Actually, I'm against even cosmetics myself. If only because I'm a proponent of game as product rather than service.
The issue is that cosmetics and DLCs detract from the end product in dissolving it. Instead of a complete gestalt we end up with a work where everything can and will be dislocated and inconsequential.
To be fair, it *can* work for some games, but I would say they're a minority, and the success of those economical practices stir development toward those types in a negative influence overall.
That's the thing with "vote with your wallet". A plutocratic process doesn't care about the majority. It only cares about a minority that can pay enough to make whatever the process at hand happens to be worthwhile.
>>339625073
>so I should vote with my wallet if I disagree with a companies decision
If it pisses you off like it does others, then sure.
>>339625086
>Actually, I'm against even cosmetics myself. If only because I'm a proponent of game as product rather than service.
I don't mind games being a service if they have continued online and continued support. If cosmetics pay for free updates, free balance patches, and overall support for up to a decade after release, then I don't see the problem. Worse comes to worse, games like Tf2 allow free modding, so I can just make a vanilla mod with no hats and no new weapons, and just enjoy a private server with friends.
>Instead of a complete gestalt we end up with a work where everything can and will be dislocated and inconsequential.
Yes, a bad game can give this feeling when they blatantly chop out content and resell it to you at top dollar. However, adding more content into a game is almost never a bad thing. At worst, just ignore it or disable it in your hud. Look at Terraria, FTL, Shovel Knight, and etc. More content usually doesn't hurt.
>>339623890
But what do you do about consoles then? Why would you resort to losing either money and control when you can just make a console game and keep both? Remember a big part of PC gaming being as big as it is right now is about console games trying their hands at the PC market. I don't see how that would have taken that risk if something along the lines of Steam would have not been there for those publishers.
Also remember the initial argument is that Steam did more harm than good to the PC industry. And while I personally don't think Steam is all that great I fail to see how it did more harm compared to all the good it provided to devs/publishers out there as I mentioned previously.
If you want to state that Steam has faulty issues be my guess. But again the argument is how those issues has caused more evil than good to the industry as a whole and I just can't see that being anything close to remotely true.
Don't take it as if PC gaming wouldn't exists without Steam, but it certainly wouldn't be where it is right now.
>>339625204
>PCgaming
>voting with your wallet
Oh god this is another GOG sales pitch isn't it?
>>339618019
More like saved it and made it commercially viable for devs to port their games to PC. The PC market was nearly dead between 2005 and 2008. Massive spark in interest around 2009.
>>339625436
>However, adding more content into a game is almost never a bad thing.
I think it holds true of any craft, and it especially true of game design: more isn't better.
You want appropriate. You want accurate. Put too much and you can easily end up with too much noise in the signal.
>>339625556
>But what do you do about consoles then? Why would you resort to losing either money and control when you can just make a console game and keep both?
Because you'd be making less money in the process. Because not all publishers would have better ROI by focusing on consoles, meaning we'd have others forced to work on PC for survival's sake?
This holds especially true given the strategy of big publishers these past 10 years or so to kill small and medium ones by adopting a hit-driven market strategy on consoles that then spread to PC. Had it remained segregated on consoles, the smaller publishers/developers could have made use of the more agile, open market left vacant to them.
>Don't take it as if PC gaming wouldn't exists without Steam, but it certainly wouldn't be where it is right now.
Well certainly. And if you think where it is right now, isn't by any mean a good place well you have to blame Valve and Steam for their role in making things the way they are.
>>339623939
Their business model changed, so now they're bad? I assume you also hate Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo, then? Why are you even here?
>>339626386
>Well certainly. And if you think where it is right now, isn't by any mean a good place well you have to blame Valve and Steam for their role in making things the way they are.
Right, but my point is I still haven't heard anything regarding how PC gaming got worse since Steam got here. Does the steam platform bring it's own issue for it's consumers? More than likely. However the greatest thing I know right now is that since Steam got here players now have access to an infinitely bigger array of content, which is by far, the biggest argument anyone can discuss, and unless someone can counter-argue that Valve made things worse since appearing or that that the industry would be in an even greater place without it I'm inclined to stick to my original statement in that OP is full of shit.
>>339623939
maybe its getting worse, but think about where we would be without this guy or more valve.
>>339618019
He saved PC gaming but at the price of forcing people to deal with incredibly intrusive DRM bullshit.
>>339626763
You can love games as a medium, and hate the companies that make them for their politics and behavior. And think they need to be put in their place as much as possible.
Nintendo forced price-fixing for years when it had the lead in the market, hurting small local shops a lot in the process. Sony predatorily gamed the judicial system to kill the competition, even when knowing it was in the wrong (see Bleem!). Microsoft has been literal cancer for gaming both on PC and console with paid online, DLC, forced standardization with EEE undertones...
Just because they sell you stuff you enjoy doesn't mean you have to cut them some slack.
>>339627592
It imposed a DRM client that is acting as a walled garden in what once was a purely open platform, and redefined possession of games at a loss for customers across the board. It contributed in the averaging out of PC and consoles as platforms. Its success inspired copycats (more made them necessary by virtue of Steam's service keeping the shop's customers base captive, turning it in both the wallmart and GameStop of the digital platforms; publishers didn't really had a choice, their creation of private clients is similar to Valve sudden support of Linux - a safeguard strategy).
Where did it all go so wrong?
>>339628241
imposed a DRM client that is acting as a walled garden in what once was a purely open platform, and redefined possession of games at a loss for customers across the board. It contributed in the averaging out of PC and consoles as platforms.
Right, so this would put us back in the "Imposed DRM vs. The amount of content PC gained" argument. I still personally think in my version and feel it's fueled just by comparing the problems and the plague that was PC piracy before DRM but I'll respect your hate for it. In the end as a business I probably couldn't take PC gaming seriously without including the benefits that Valve brought to the dance. Then again it's also really hard since we can only imagine, without actual data, what kind of place PC gaming would be without Steam today.
I feel like we could go back and forth for another dozen post easily but I plan on leaving this thread for now. I did appreciate the good time though, cheers.
>>339618019
Valve are scumbags because of crates/treasure boxes.
They say it isn't gambling but it's the exact same shit.
>>339631067
That's another issue, but yeah. We're basically allowing those companies the power to do gambling unmonitored while also being able to create their own currencies and game their own market at the same time.
All that unregulated.
>>339631067
I'm not a fan of it, but there's dumbasses who are. If those idiots fund free content for the rest of us, I can usually turn a blind eye.
It's if they go full retard shit like Payday 2 did (now undone, thank god) that's when it becomes a huge problem.
>>339618019
Best thing he did was getting Jap devs to notice the IBM-compatibles personal computing platform.
>>339622220
>Valve did basically save PC gaming
Yes, and Nintendo saved video games in 1985.
All Valve did was making digitally delivered games acceptable by forcing Steam on people who wanted to play HL2 and filling them with false promises.
>>339618019
The pc market was on the verge of death before. I don't like steam and their green light process is complete shit compared to itch.io but developers would of stopped a long time ago if there was no steam. It was like the wild west before
>>339632850
>The pc market was on the verge of death before.
A thing I keep hearing, but I don't really agree on the data analysis.
>>339633219
Piracy was on epidemic levels before Steam caught on. Publishers were straight up pulling PC support or putting bullshit like Securom in there.
Steve jobs invented the modern smartphone, then there was no more use for him so he died.
Gaben saved PC gaming back in the day, now Steam is more of a cancer than anything else.
>>339633375
Yeah, but if anything it's SECUROM that was killing the sales, not piracy. And more importantly the war between retailers and PC publishers that resulted in a drought. That was then re-categorized as symptom rather than cause.
Hell, if you look at the data we have for piracy today, things aren't any better or worse than they used to be as far as we can tell.
Valve DID save gaming.
But not because Valve is good in anyway, but because they were the first.
They head the first centralized "APP STORE" for PC games, and pc gaming saved itself.
Like iTunes saved digital music in the 90's and curently is the one of the biggest cancers of the music industry.
Thats what steam is: itunes for games and its time to move on.
Gabe isn't even that much of a big deal. Well he physically it, but not in terms of relevance.
Carmack had way more impact on PC gaming as a whole than Gabe.
>>339618019
I don't know anon, PC gaming is objectively fantastic now.
>>339634224
ID deserves more credit for the existence of PC gaming than Valve does, they even coined the term "deathmatch"
>>339634224
Yeah, RAGE was bretty gud
