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JUST sequels
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You are currently reading a thread in /v/ - Video Games

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>This game killed the franchise
Post em, fuck
>>
Resistance 2.

Codified gameplay and then they killed off hale. Horrible
>>
>>339527530
Saints Row: The Third
>>
DMC
>>
>>339527530
Metal Gear Solid 3
>>
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>>339527530
There is no room for debate.
>>
>>339527530
mgs2
>>
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>>339527530
>>
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>>339527530
postal 3

duke nukem forever
>>
>>339528250
cont. not a bad game though.
>>
ITT games that did in fact not kill the franchise
>>
>>339528220
this is wrong
>>339528250
this is wrong
>>
>>339527530
best example
>>
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>>339527925
Resistance 2 had one of the best damn multiplayers in the PS3 System.

Resistance 3 is what legit killed it
>>
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Dragon Age 2.
>>
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Well, it'll be hard to bounce back from...
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>>339528297
>>
>>339527925
>>339528447
Fight!
>>
Resident Evil 4.png
>>
The only real answer is Golden Sun Dark Dawn
Issac isn't even present in smash after that. McCarthism at its finest
>>
Dead space 3
>>
>>339528245
This is wrong.
>>339528220
This is wrong.
>>
Prototype 2
>>
Fallout 2
>>
Gothic 3. Fuck that game.
>>
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Quake 4
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System Shock 2
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>>339527530
Wo the fuck names their pet Tarantula "Axel"?
Buzz was a fucking faggot.
>>
Team fortress: overwatch
>>
>>339528220
It killed it in that it could not be topped so everything after was a disappointment
>>
>>339527530
Golden Sun: Dark Dawn.
>>
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>>339528967
Just go easy on the Pepsi
>>
Prince of Persia: Warrior Within.
Two Thrones just raped the body.
>>
>Mr. Kojima, your highly-successful stealth-action game is getting a new entry, what do you want to do with it? Should we stick to what works, what the franchise has been for the past two decades?
>Well, I heard people enjoy micromangement menus and Monster Hunter, so let's do that instead
>>
resident evil 4
lost planet 3
sonic adventure 2
FEAR 2
>>
Transformers: rise of the dark spark
>>
Fallout New Vegas. Destroyed what the original fallouts brought to the plate, obsidian shouldve never got a chance with fallout, bethesda has made 4 great (4 being debatable) fallout games and new vegas kinda ruined it.
>>
>>339529119
I wanted to punch that little cunt in the face so much
>>
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>>339529305
>>
>>339529305
This is just my opinion of course, i just thought new vegas was overrated and boring
>>
>>339529305
weak bait but someone will bite
>>
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>>339529305
>bethesda has made 4 great (4 being debatable) fallout games
>>
Resident Evil 4
Bioshock Infinite
Oblivion
>>
>>339528627
this killed my hope worse than brawl did.

only thing worth jack in nintendo is pokemon and fire emblem
>>
>>339528871
Quake 4 was a decent game. Quake 2 killed Quake 1's chance of ever having a proper gothic horror tech sequel. The Q2/Q4/QW series was killed by all those other military alien shooters like Halo and Gears. And Q3A jerked itself off into pro-gamer obscurity.
>>
>>339529362
>Bethesda has made 4 great Fallout games
>has made 2 Fallout games
Holy bait Batman
>>
rollmaster
>>
>>339529376
Its just an opinion, im 23
>>
>>339529305

>Bethesda made 4 great fallout games
>implying Bethesda made all the games but New Vegas

Is this bait or are you 10 years old?
>>
>>339528583
I guess. Shitty controls added tension. By giving the player more freedom of movement you make the game available to a wider audience. But let's be honest. The suck really started in nemesis.
>>
>>339527530
Halo 4.
>>
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RIP
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Chinese ports
>>
>>339529546
Fuller was a fucking faggot.
And I hate Golden showers
>>
>>339529483
>>339529546
>>339529568
>>339529376
its just an opinion guys, chill
>>
Fire Emblem:Awakening
>>
Half-Life 2
>>
>>339527530
what movie is this guy from
>>
>>339529626
it still hurts
>>
Dark Souls 3
>>
UT3 aka Unreal Tournament 3
Now the new one is free and the numbers are still really low
>>
>>339529684
It's not an opinion that Bethesda has only made 2 Fallout games.
>>
Mercenaries 2

Personally I enjoyed it but it was flawed. The only good addition was boats and the fact you could swim (water was an almost instant kill before). They had some good ideas but it didn't have the charm of the first game.

There was talk of a sequel or spin off but I don't think pandemic even makes games anymore
>>
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>>339529728
>>
>>339529305
You're going to cringe so much at your past opinions when you're 18
>>
>>339529728
Home Alone
>>
>>339528220
/thread

Why couldn't Kojima just forget it? It was a stupid filler arc that added nothing to the gameplay, nothing to the story, and nothing to the graphics.

y kojimbo
>>
>>339529704

>buy Awakening
>It's not that bad, but not as good as Sacred Stones
>the fanbase explodes in number, goes full fujo

There's no going back now
>>
>>339528475
At least the TV was funny.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtqYbvs2Nbg
>>
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to be honest senpai
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>>339529672
Thanks WB, now I have to buy a PS4 or jump through hoops just to get it to run well.
>>
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>>339529806
Thats your opinion and i respect it, i just enjoy the fallouts bethesda made, and i think they shouldve just kept with the series
>>
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Regardless of whether or not you liked it, it didn't sell well enough for capcom to continue the megaman series.

also, capcom is stupid
>>
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>ctrl-f
>not this
what the fuck \V\
jesus christ

>you will never be part of a team developing a videogame that will ruining an entire franchise retroactively
>>
>>339527925
exactly. resistance 1 was awesome and 2 fucked it up but some people like the cod shit that happened
>>
>>339529305

Man, haven't been to the bait store in a while
>>
>>339529820
im 23
>>
>>339530027
>that's your opinion
NO IT'S FUJKING NOT AN ONION REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>
>>339527530

DmC: Devil May Cry
>>
>>339530153
you know that this game won't be searchable in this thread, if you didn't mention it name
>>
>>339530153
>\V\
I know you did this on purpose, but you still triggered me.
>>
>>339530153
desu the ending was the only shitty part, and they at least tried to fix it. most companies would just tell the fans to fuck off.
>>
>>339530165
not b8 just an opinion people cant respect

>>339530193
Explain
>>
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WOTLK was the beginning of the end but was also one of the most fun. Cata was just a shitshow and it hasn't gotten any better since.
>>
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Someone involved with this game actually hated gamers, hated Lunar, and hated me personally.
>>
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>>339529983
>>
>>339530153
Except the franchise isn't dead and the new entry is highly anticipated for release in the next year.
>>
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>>339530153
>>
>>339530275
Bethesda have only made 2 Fallout games, not 4
>>
>>339528435
I've lways thought it was strange that there were only two months between release and studio closing down.
>>
>>339530318
It had the worst writing but was objectively the most fun game
>>
>>339529291
FEAR 2 was still alright in a "where the everloving fuck is this game taking me?" kind of way, at least the actual gameplay was still decent.

It was FEAR 3 that was absolute garbage, only way I managed to finish that was by playing it with a friend and making fun of it every step of the way.
>>
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>>339530335
Absolutely savage.
>>
>>339530372
I dont know about that, if you look at fallout 3 and go back to fallout 1-2 you can see the strong influence, or vise versa. I really dont know tho, i just feel the connection? i guess thats the word
>>
>>339527530
Guild Wars 2
Halo 5
Fallout 4
Lost Planet 3
Borderlands The Pre-Sequel

Way to make me upset with life.
>>
Half life 2: Episode 2
>>
>>339530513
am I being memed?
>>
oblivion
>>
>>339530513
Fallout 3 is nothing like Fallout 1 and 2. New Vegas is basically a direct sequel to 2 made by people who used to work at Black Isle/Interplay, who made Fallout 1 and 2.
>>
>>339527530
Diablo 3, fucking Diablo 3.
>>
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>>339529836
>>339529810

Oh jeez, I googled the actor of Buzz (Devin Ratray)
>>
>>339530335
Don't get it
>>
>>339530601
no, i hate explaning this opinion every time a thread like this pops up. Im really serious about it, but people hate me for saying my opinion. I can assure you im being serious
>>
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ctrl+f
>skylanders
>0 results
>>
>>339530551
At least I could stomach Fallout 4 for more than an hour.
Borderlands TPS still gives me nightmares.
>>
>>339527530
I really want to say Fable 2, but Fable 3 was the real crime.
>>
>>339530669
I just didnt feel like fallout new vegas was a lot like fallout 1-2 besides having NCR. Fallout 1 had the tree guy thats in fallout 3, and fallout 2 had enclave ( i think) and that was also in fallout 3
>>
>>339530707
Well he's aged well.
>>
>>339530730
It happened long before this
>>
>>339530723
The ending to ME3 had the choice of three colors: Green, red, and blue. The man was colorblind, thus making all the endings the same.
>>
>>339530730
Spyro was already dead, Skylanders just pulled the plug.
>>
>>339530838
The writing was the same as it was in 2. Harold is the only thing from the first 2 games in 3 and it makes no sense for him to be there.
>>
>>339527530
Sonic 2.
>>
>>339530838
But New Vegas has far more of the role playing elements present in the first two and has writing very similar to the second, Fallout 3 is very few role playing elements with extremely simplistic writing.
>>
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>>339527530
This shit
>>
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>>339527530
GTA will never ever be fun again.
>>
>>339530723
It was a burn implying that if someone was colorblind they wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the three different ME3 endings at all.
>>
>>339530957
I guess, maybe i need to play fallout 2 and new vegas again, I just cant stomach playing fallout new vegas after 3, felt like an overall downgrade besides ADS.
>>
>>339530707
Fuller appeared in that men's movie with Michael cera
>>
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Anyone who says different probably started on Halo 3.
>>
>>339530838
Different anon.
I'd have to disagree with you with Fallout 1 and 2 being good. Sure the references were funny, but replaying it a couple weeks ago they just felt horribly dated. Not to mention New Vegas not only has a lot more role-playing to it, but it also has mods to freshen it up.
>>
>>339531045
Is that baba?
>>
>>339529518
The entire Fire Emblem franchise has sold less than just 1 Donkey Kong game.
>>
>>339529917
Wrong, Halo 3 is best Halo.
>>
>>339531078
I'm not sure how you can think that, but I respect that you do, I guess.
>>
>>339529215

Pokemon was an influence as well
>>
>>339531163
a remake/remaster would be gr8, but it wont happen, or if it did, whoever did it would fuck it up. Shame
>>
>>339531045
GTA V did the ruining. I can't even force myself to play it anymore. I'll still go back and reinstall 4 and do a playthrough every now and then, though.
>>
>>339531135
*meme
>>
>>339529139
>Two Thrones just raped the body.
>Hating on Two Thrones
Nigga what?
>>
>>339528935
how is mgsV? I just bought it.
>>
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>>339531168
It is.
>>
>>339527530
Call of Duty 4
>>
Metroid II: Return of Samus
>>
>>339529139
Fuck off. The sands of time trilogy was fucking great and each game was awesome in it's own way.PoP 2008 and that movie tie in is what killed the francise , althoug 2008 wasn't that bad either, it was just different.
>>
>>339531405
It's good.
>>
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SOTN

It killed arcade castlevania
>>
>>339530271
Wrong. Kai Leng. B-movie intro wih no build up. Literally Who Vega. Cerberus is the enemy in more missions than the Reapers. Jack doesn't join your party. The Quarians are terrible people. Legion originally wanted the geth to choose their own future, rejecting the Reaper tech in 2, only to violently beg you to let him use it to upgrade his race in 3. No choice in how you react to Thessia. Javik being DLC despite being one of the best characters.

The campaign was a god-awful mess. At least the tacked on multiplayer kept me hooked for 800 hours or so. I guess the gameplay mechanics themselves were pretty well-rounded at last, though I think the sound design on most of the guns after ME1 was utter shit.
>>
>>339531789
Nothing of value was lost.
>>
>>339530890
Ah, got it. Thanks.
>>
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>>339531871
FUCK.YOU.
>>
>>339531039
Nah. Halo will never die.
>>
RE4
It was good but any game after it was shit

MGS2
The series should of stayed with the PS1

Crash 4: Wrath of Cortex
Same as metal gear

Metal Slug 4
No need to explain
>>
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>>339527530
Diablo 3

JUST
>>
>>339528310
Postal 2 got a new dlc and postal 1 got a redux on steam though
>>
>>339532075
The story was almost as bad as ME3.
>Halo 4
>excellent story, interesting lore, poor implementation required outside sources to fully comprehend
>shit gunplay and balance

>Halo 5
>the most asinine story, finally with Blue Team, only to sideline them completely for 3 mission and give 12 to the 343vengers; Cortana is revived but claims to be past rampancy while clearly being an illogical rampant mess and is the billain for shock value rather than cohesion
>gunplay and movement options are top tier

Hopefully they'll get their shit together for Halo 6.
>>
>>339529842
>Added a concept of a semi limited inventory and camoflague index, regardless of how crappy the implementation was
>nothing to the gameplay
>Introduced The Joy, whose death became the inspirational point for The Patriots, Outer Heaven, and XOF/Vocal Parasite shit
>Nothing to the story
I'll give you the third point though
>>
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>>339529362
>Hating on based Fuller
Opinion literally discarded fag.
>>
>>339532075
It never died. It just ended. Ended with bungie.
>>
>>339531162
The true JUST sequel of them all
>>
Witcher 3
>>
>>339532485
>enhanced mobility
>a good thing

Go fuck yourself, Halo died with reach because of enhanced mobility ruining map design
>>
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Ok, I'll be honest it was dead after the release of KOTOR 2 but with the release of this fucking shit the chances of EVER getting KOTOR 3 is gone.
>>
>>339532796
>Reach
>enhanced mobility
Only the jetpack and even that was removed from the slightly competitive playlists
>>
>>339527530
Ace Combat Assault Horizon
Battlefield Bad Company 2
>>
>>339532121
this.
>>
>>339532943
I know a guy who plays this still.
It's all he plays.
It's the ONLY game he plays.
This game is his LIFE when he's not at work.
He manages to have a wife yet he spends his time on THIS game than with her.
>>
I am wondering, being an outsider of the genre: what final fantasy could be considered JUSTED, if any?
>>
>>339528476
>someone took that photo
>>
>>339528220
You're fucking delusional
>>
>>339529808
pandemic doesnt exist anymore

https://youtu.be/BFmbGWeZrAM

Nevar forget
>>
>>339533218
None, the series is still going strong.
You could debate the XIII trilogy, but it made money and they still have XV coming along with the long awaited FF7 remake.
If XV bombs then that'd be the JUST game.
>>
>>339533112
I guess he really likes Star Wars
>>
>>339533038
Sprint counts faggot
>>
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RIP Grandia, only 1 good game in the series
>>
>>339529808
>I don't think Pandemic even makes games anymore
Nigga, they dead. The Saboteur flopped and EA pretty much killed them afterwards
>>
All these Mass Effect babies need to go back and play Mass Effect 2. It showed all the signs of the cancer that made Mass Effect 3 suck. The only good thing about ME2 is the Shadow Broker DLC
>>
>>339533389
What if they JUST the remake?
>>
>>339527925
Yes. This. God this.
Resistance 1 was fun as fuck both single and multi, then 2 came along and was just CoD with aliens, removing every good part of the first game. It was so fucking bad.
>>
>>339528474
Inquisition made bank and they're teasing a fourth one.

Try again
>>
>>339533705
It's gonna sell, it's guaranteed money.
XV is the game then spent millions making, and if they don't make it back it'd be a massive bust.
FFVII:R would recover sales, but who knows what Squeenix would do at that point.
>>
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>>339533641
>>339529808
>>
>>339533674
Mass Effect 2 is way better than the original game though.
>>
>>339533994
If you like cancer then sure
>>
>>339533524
Grandia II was amazing, tho.
>>
Anything else than Starcraft II is a wrong answer. You can't shit more on a franchise than Blizzard did to the fantastic story of Brood War
>>
>>339529215
It's a psp game, what did you expect?
>>
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>>339534476
He meant 1 you dumbfucker
>>
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I mean, Borderlands 1 didn't have much going for it, but it had its own charms that made it a good game. But this shitshow here destroyed any potential for the series to develop into something else.

Why can't Anthony "Faggot" Burch be hanged for his crimes?
>>
>>339529472
Yeah someone like you like you you dumb motherfucker.
>>
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>>339534497
I'm willing to say Wings of Liberty was still relatively good, even though it was obvious the story would take a nose dive. But for the most part, it was a solid game.
Heart of Swarm was absolutely forgettable, added nothing and was bland as fuck in general.
Legacy of the Void was just hilariously bad and put the final nail in the coffin.

I'm still at awe just how much they fucked it all up.

>>339534632
Yes, I know, and I'm saying he's wrong. Grandia II was a very good game, so it was no the one to kill the series. 3 did.
>>
>>339534760
Yes, but he won't.
>>
>>339534760
People hated BL2? I thought the """"comedy"""" of the game was cringe worthy, but I still had fun. Basically everything Burch touched was the worst part of the game, but I never played BL1 for the story in the first place so why would I go to the sequel for it?
>>
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>>339528245
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>>339535071
>People hated BL2?
>>
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It wasn't the games fault, it was the company.
>>
>>339528297
You'd think but sonic somehow keeps going, its incredible other series wouldn't even live long enough to obtain such a terrible legacy.
>>
>>339535154
Are you a Lich King baby?
>>
Advance Wars:Dual Strike.
>>
>>339533641

It's too bad cause Sabateur was pretty fun.
>>
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Halo 3 was the catalyst for Halo's demise regardless how many casuals love it via nostalgia
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>>339529749
I came here to post this
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Darksiders II.

Didn't continue the story in the way anyone wanted, loot focus was awful.
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Star Fox Zero.

It was only created to show off a gimmick, when people just wanted a good star fox game.

Until Nintendo can rehash with improvements, instead of rehash for the sake of gimmicks, they will continue to kill off their own franchises due to how stubborn they are.

And before anybody says anything, I own Pikmin 3 and enjoyed it. I own Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze and enjoy it. I own and still enjoy playing MK8, Splatoon, Smash 4, and Mario Maker. Everyone kept saying that "its just like Splatoon motion controls! Star Fox Zero is fun when you get used to it!". Except now that I have experienced it, that's a load of bullshit. In Splatoon, the upper screen and lower screen were not equally important. I could play multiplayer for hours without looking at the gamepad, and do great. In Splatoon, I don't need to watch for tens of hundreds of projectiles flying at me from all directions, its just me vs four players at the most, and usually that isn't the case. As a nintendo fan, I feel honest to god ashamed that I was looking forward to Star Fox Zero as much as I was. Its the second Nintendo game I have bought in a while to disappoint me as much as it did, and the first was Yoshi's New Island. It takes a lot for me to be disappointed in a Nintendo game I bought really, so this was a surprise to me. I can't trust Star Fox now when Miyamoto is involved. Its the same for Paper Mario, its starting to become where anytime he is involved in something, he ruins it. He sees "same, but improved" as a downside. He sees gameplay consistency as a negative. Honestly, I really just want Miyamoto to either leave the company, or die. It would be hilarious if a new developer took over the next 3D Mario and made it like 64, and Miyamoto complained about it being rehashed, only for it to sell crazy well just to spite him.
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>>339535140
Can't be. There's no room for it.
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>>339530275
Bethesda has only made 2 Fallout games you fucking neanderthal. Holy hell I don't even care if this bait at this point I have never seen this much stupidity in a series of posts. Simple facts like this are not opinions you goddamn fuck.
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>>339533112
Is he the guy who plays TOR to make sure his wife doesn't bitch at him for buying a gaming PC?
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>>339535535
Vanillababy actually
though I didn't reach the big leagues until Wrath
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>>339529119
Fuck this kid
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>>339530725
Kys desu senpai
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>>339531832
Mass Effect 3 had the best weapon sound design though.
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>>339536173
kill yourself, i wish my b8 got as many responses as his. got damn it its shit b8 and he still gets more responses then my gourmet b8 fuck you for feeding into it.
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>>339528297
Oh, he'll fucking come back... he always does
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>>339540781
I'll be an old man, and Sonic will be alive and kicking in yet another shitty gimmicky game.
Ah who am I kidding, I'll die sometimes in the next 10 years.
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>Wargame: We want the asshurt yuropoor fans that want their tiny shitholes to be as relevant as superpowers audience.
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>>339532121
>>339533102
?

I mean yeah sure, it's not as good as Diablo 2,
But i bought IT on release day for pc,then.played it again on ps3 and then got platium on ps4s diablo 3 rot.

They are constantly trying to improve it, well i enjoyed this game alot, don't know what kinds of problems you had with it
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Paper mario Sticker Star

game isn't worth looking up a picture for
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>>339536083
subtle
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>>339527530
Command and conquer 4: Tiberian twilight
its like EA took a shit on all its fans
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>>339528080
Maximum pleb
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>>339532943
:'(
Anon please...
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>>339530478
>FEAR 2 had decent gameplay
FEAR 1 had godtier gunplay where everything had a kick to it. Every gun in FEAR 2 was embarrassing. FEAR 3 at least got that right.
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FALLOUT 4
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>>339528297

I fucking love the this design, is so bad.
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>>339529591
this is the truth few admit

good work

ps cvx was good though

pps close the borders

t. wesker
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>>339527530
Age of Empires 3
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>>339529896
Kill yourself my man.
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>>339528080
Reddit is that way faggot.
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>>339542285
>>339544792
SR3 is Reddit: the game

here's to (you) faggot
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>>339530153
>>339530271
Fuck that game was so goddamn awful. Just beat all three in a row a week ago and it really shows how rushed 3 was.
>Fucking awful Intro and ending.
>Dialogue wheel is completely butchered.
>Great gun variety, but only 1/10 of them are good.
>Everyone can use all guns now, even further dumbing down the classes.
>Quest system is complete shit and makes no sense.
>Genophage and Geth plots are fucking identical.
>Illusive man changed from an antihero to indoctrinated lunatic.
>Kai Leng

At least the DLC and multiplayer was pretty good.
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still mad. I haven't bought a game at launch since. It ruined me.
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>>339531162
started on halo ce and loved reach, i understand people being underwhelmed but i dont get why it gets such intense hate

oh well maybe thats just me
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>>339543474
>>>339528297
>I fucking love the this design, is so bad.
>this design
>blue arms
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>>339545749
How was the game bad?

I enjoyed it quite a bit.
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>>339545749
I don't understand why the first game hooked me into playing it to completion and even replaying it for the secret ending. But with the second game, I gave up half way through and haven't picked it up since.
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>>339530707
>ballsack beard
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>>339546087
>awesome new abilities from the new characters
>crazy story that's actually pretty fun
>as good if not better soundtrack than the first game
>level design so shit that the game is impossible to enjoy despite these other points

They didn't do anything to improve the shooting mechanics despite designing the levels around ranged combat. It just wasn't as fun because you couldn't whip around corners and go ballistic with melee weapons due to the massive open spaces.
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>>339528220
>>339528245
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Let's up the ante: how about a game that fell so flat it managed to tank an entire US state's economy?
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Why couldn't they name it Dragon Quest Online?

Fucking MMOs this may sound autistic but DQXI should be DQX.

Such a missed oportunity looking at it now, it's been like 8 years since the last big budget AAA home console release. It fucking deserved the X!
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>>339530375
they probably staked it all on 2 doing better and it didnt do enough for them. activision only wants franchises obviously.
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>>339533838
2 did do badly though. So bad they just cancelled the DLC and moved on.
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I'm still fucking bitter.
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although I heard echo's of time was good. I just want my comphy back.
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>>339529917
>>
Has anyone said Resident evil 4 yet?
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>>339547416
Fuck you bitch 4 is the best game ever made and will always be best game ever .
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>>339547491
and it killed the franchise
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>>339547416
five took the steering wheel with SMASH A FOR BOULDER PUNCH
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>>339534870
You can hate it, that's fine, but this game objectively saved the series.
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>>339529917
nice try Ronald Baitman.
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>>339528297
>>339528475
>Sonicucks actually believe their franchise wasn't dead before the turn of the century
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>>339527530
I play it, and have fun sometimes, but I know it killed a frachise: Diablo III
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>>339547768
>Sonic
>Sony

you are the dumbest human being on the face of the earth. Even more so if you're baiting.
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>>339547658
>saved the series that had nothing wrong with it
no they just added waifu shit to pander to faggots like you, because they knew they could get more money, and thus sold their integrity, it may as well be fucking senran kagura at this point
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>>339547926
>nothing wrong with it
>if Awakening didn't sell 250,000 copies, Nintendo would have canned the franchise due to little interest in keeping it going
>Awakening sells over 1,000,000 copies, revives interest in franchise

I mostly agree with you,, but objectively, the game sold a lot and saved the franchise financially. You can bicker about quality all you want, the fact is Awakening saved Fire Emblem.
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>>339547491
The game was meh is not that good i played it day one on the ps2 and it doesnt have the magic the original trilogy had years later i figured out how fucked up the series and became an abomination for mark the beggining of the end for the series
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