DUDE, COUNTER LMAO!!!.
baynettas ins't exactly a counter
and same with peach (flat damage every time)
Also palutena's counter is the worst in the game
>Ryu
>counter
Counter is risky as fuck, it's not broken.
>>339512976
>baynettas ins't exactly a counter
>Down B special that punishes you for attacking her during a specific time frame and is not an offensive move
>Not a counter
Jesus, Bayo fags are more retarded than I thought.
Counters that make sense/are okay
>Marth/Lucina/Roy
>Ike
>Shulk
>Bayo
>Mac
Counters that are shit and prove Sakurai was just throwing away the last move slot
>Lucario
>Greninja
>Palu
>Peach
Characters that shouldn't be in the game let alone have a counter:
>Corrin
>>339513000
i was just about to type this.
>>339512853
The only counters that can be justified are: Marth, Greninja, Shulk, Little Mac and Bayonetta. All others can fuck off
>>339513162
>risky
>>339513000
Nice trips. Rare thing on this board.
>>339513231
Thing is that it slows you down, doesn't counterattack immediately damage based on the attack used. It's definitely better than a counter, but it isn't a counter per say.
>>339512853
ryu and bayo?
lmao good one.
>>339514536
It literally is the same thing as a counter retard.
>>339512853
>palutena has a side special that lets her dash across the screen, lending to some incredible recovery, approach, combo, mixup and even KO options
>also has a down special that that increases her overall mobility by a crapload and also grants her some much needed kill confirms
>lol let's give a shitty counter and reflect as her default instead lmao
Ugh, fuck Sakurai.
>>339513602
only counter that isn't risky is Bayos, everyone else's is fine
>>339514536
Not to mention the attack can still hit you.
>>339516170
Only if youre retarded
>>339513000
Trips speaks the truth
>>339516315
Doesn't change the fact it still can hit you.
>>339516483
Doesnt change the fact youre retarded
>>339516875
So?
>>339516315
>>339516875
>youre
Are you scared of apostrophes or something?
>>339513369
wheres ryu
>>339517074
Ryu doesn't have a counter.
>>339517073
Apostrophes killed my family you bastard.
>>339513000
also
>bayonetta
if she counters a multi-hit move
>all those anime swordsmen.
>>339512853
I main peach and I honestly forgot she had a counter
>>339518759
That't because it's terrible in every game.
>>339518598
I Love them.
>>339516170
>>339516483
Fast multihit attacks can also hit Shulk out of his counter. I know because I main him
That can happen to other characters that aren't Bayonetta and her does count as a counter
The only move in the OP that isn't strictly a counter is Ryu's because he can hit you with it regardless of if he received a hit or not
>>339518598
Gotta attract people to your barren series somehow.
>>339513000
It's an in-between. Not a hit-reader like the others, but its power-armor means any slower/weaker hits are gonna get punished if you can't react fast enough.
>>339512853
>calling that thing palutina does a counter
I know it's actually name is counter but she would be better with no move as her down b.
Acceptable tier
>Marth, first proper counter
>Peach, not exactly a counter
>Greninjas is cool looking, sufficiently different from preexisting FE and Lucario counterts
>Ryu not exactly a counter
>Bayos is sufficiently different
Unacceptable tier
>Everything FE and not Marth
>Lucario's is shit
>Palutena and Mii Fighters are profoundly lazy
>Little Mac and Shulks are just Lucario's again
>>339513369
While you're at it you should really move Lucina to that last section
>There are now more characters with counters in smash 4 than there are characters in smash 64
Please god dont let sakurai direct any more games.
I miss when Counter was just a Fire Emblem thing based of the mechanics from their game. Seems lazy to just throw it on ever character.
>>339518598
>7 out of 58
>>339520527
Shulks counter is perfectly acceptable dumbass. Its his vision power which is a major part of his game. Shulk is the one character who having a counter makes the most sense on.
>>339520527
You know counter is a staple mechanic of Fire Emblem, right? That's why they all have it.
>>339520169
It's still not a counter
The way I use Pit's super armor side b is as an improvised counter but it is still not a counter
>>339520841
Yeah but Sakurai could have stopped stapling it on after Marth and Roy
>>339520815
Gameplay wise it's lazy
>>339512853
>Armor
>a counter
>>339520527
marth can't even learn counter in his game while all the other FE except lucina/roy can
>>339520865
Oh I know, just trying to make sense of OP's choice in Ryu.
>>339513000
I came here to post this
>>339521079
In all FE games you attack with a unit and the other unit counterattacks. Kind of a stretch, but I think that was the logic with the original counter in melee.
>>339520975
>Gameplay wise it's lazy
Shulk has more effort and uniqueness put into his counter than most. There two different versions of it that act differently. Stop being an idiot please.
Daily reminder that Bayonetta is trash now post patch
>>339520815
I'm only slightly annoyed at how long the hit-read goes on for.
>>339521269
>Implying
If anything I'm doing better with her
>>339513000
Isn't Ryu's down B Art basically a counter?
It's basically a less powerful Witch Time.
>>339520169
It's not a counter at all, it's basically a chargable warlock punch, except it has super-armor for one hit and stuns instead of launching.
>>339521363
>It's basically a less powerful Witch Time.
What? No it's not.
>>339521269
So now it's fine to use FemDante without getting bitched at? Would be nice.
>>339512853
Git gud
>>339521363
It's super armor, he still takes damage. It doesn't not function like counter moves where you get hit and then the attack comes out
>>339520527
The only characters with a reason to have a counter are Shulk because he sees the future and counters the move and Bayonetta because it is a main mechanic from the game
I would let Greninja slide because how can you have a ninja pokemon and not give him substitution?
>>339520841
Not for any of the FE characters in the game unless you do mad reclassing for Corrin or make Lucina inherit it from Chrom
>>339521589
Counter as in counter attacking, ie doubling, not the Counter skill.
And since when can Chrom learn Counter?
>>339521363
A counter means that you parry an attack and attack with your own
Focus attack can hit your opponent even if the enemy doesn't do an attack, and that by definition makes it not a counter
>>339521589
Every character in every Fire Emblem game counters, you know that thing where you attack and the enemy attacks you back, and vice versa? That's a counterattack, its the whole reason why the characters had counters in smash.
>>339521363
Are you shitting me? That's like saying Warlock Punch is a counter.
>>339514092
Any number ever has an equal chance of showing up - I'm an English major and I know this
Remember when people actually thought Cloud had a counter?
>>339512853
Its not like Peach, Lucario, Greeninja and Bayo actually have something that may not be called a counter.
And Ryu doesn't have a counter.
>People were complaining about counters in Brawl
>Most the newcomers they added have one
n i c e
>>339521589
Most of the counters in Smash are acceptable honestly:
>FE counter is a mechanic from the series admittedly that many of them shouldn't have it
>Ryu's move is literally ripped directly from SF4
>Same with Bayo
>Countering is a thing in Boxing but it could be "C-CROSS COUNTER?!"
>Peach's makes no sense but its decent move t b h familia
>Greninjas is a move from Pokemon, I think Lucario's is one as well and doesn't work quite like that in the game in either case
The unacceptable ones are these
>Shulks has the ability to see attacks before they happen but I dont know and dont think that directly manifests as a counter in his games
>Palutena's is lazy and makes no sense just like the rest of her character, effectively just the FE counter
>Mii Swordfighter continues it's tradition of being the laziest Mii fighter with the most ripped off moveset with directly just the FE counter
>I'd say Corrin and Ike's counters personally
>>339522258
>people complaining about the number of FE characters
>Sakurai adds more
I hope he continues this in the next game just to see these people get butthurt.
>>339522416
>Removes Starfox character
>>339521690
Marth can't learn Counter, Astra or Luna either. Marth's specials are based around the attack animations, rather than skills in FE.
>>339522545
>He could have added Wolf as DLC to go along with SF Zero
>He adds two more FE characters
>>339522614
And what does that have anything to do with counter attacks? I'm not the one who brought up the Counter skill like a retard and them said that Lucina couldn't have it unless she inherited it.And Marth can actually learn all that shit in Awakening because spotpass units can reclass into anything if you want to be technical about this useless discussion.
>>339522545
>people during the Brawl days actually bitched about too many Star Fox characters
Palutena definitely should use something else. Land Mine would be an easy basic power for down B, or maybe Power Thief which could let her steal health like Robin's Nosferatu.
So who's not making it back in Smash5
>>339522872
>all those people bitched when at that point SF could be defined as a neatly repped series
>>339522391
just because there's an excuse for them doesn't make them not unoriginal and fucking boring as a move
>>339522925
Lucina and Roy can fuck off. I'm a FE fag and I'll defend Corrin, but not those two.
>>339522391
So a character like Shulk who makes the most sense for him to be able to do a counter because he literally knows exactly what the enemy is going to do is not acceptable but Peach's is acceptable because "it's a decent move t b h familia" which is another way to say that it is fine just because you like it
Seriously, shut up
>>339523061
>>339520803
Thats still almost 1 in 6
>>339523251
>1 in 6
>Bad
That's just a mechanic every character has in some fighting games nigga
>>339522391
>>Ryu's move is literally ripped directly from SF4
Read along with me
Ryu
does not
have a
counter.
>>339521269
Haven't updated outside of reading her current nerfs? Is she low tier now?
>>339522925
Next game will just be a FE party game, featuring Mario, Link and a Federation Force unit.
>>339523251
It's more like 1 in 8.
>>339521894
That doesn't make any sense because in FE you get hit and take damage and you still attack back, in smash the counters prevent you from getting damage and you retaliate
By that logic then nearly all the cast should have a counter, like Link because he can shield the move and then attack, then again you could say that the whole game is about counters because they hit you and you try to hit back
Your idea of a counter is very broad
>>339523391
But they're way more precise to pull off in actual fighting games. It's a fucking joke that they're so easy to do, let alone spam them. It's gotten to a point where shitters will do nothing but counter spam or shield grabs in for glory.
Sure, they're easy to beat. But fuck me if it smash 4 hasn't gotten boring. Almost likeIt was never good to begin with
>>339521363
No,It's more powerful than witch time
>>339524001
Shitters are going to be shitters regardless of the game.
So is Warlock Punch confirmed to be a counter or nah
>>339523919
I'm just telling you why it was put in smash. It makes sense for why they'd use it, theres not much you can do with FE characters.
>>339521894
Thats not really the same thing at all, thats just how turn based games work.
If they want to expand FE characters, an appropriate down special might be changing weapons. So instead of countering, Marth could equip a spear or Ike could equip an axe. They'd keep their regular attacks but the hitboxes and effects could change.
>>339524741
what would you replace their counters with, then?
>>339524741
That's not how turn based games work, in FE when you attack the enemy on your turn, the enemy attacks you back, its a counterattack by definition.
You aren't going to instantly get attacked back in Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest for attacking the enemy.
>>339524573
Any source that what you said is the exact same reasoning that Sakurai put them in smash?
>>339524964
Watch any gameplay of SRW or any tactical rpg actually.
>>339524862
I don't see why I have to answer this, but a weapon change system does sound nice >>339524793
>it's a "spam bair" player
If every counter did as much damage / knockback as Palutena's counter the game would be more balanced. Prove me wrong
>>339522391
This is one of the dumbest posts i have ever fucking read. Please dont ever breed you fucking retard.
>>339524793
that's pretty impractical since the reason they changed Charizard's and Shiek's Down B was because they couldn't have characters with all those moves on the 3ds
>>339525230
All of them?
>>339522237
All of those are conters you stupid faggot.
>>339525239
You might as well not have counter at all.
>>339525372
The easy answer is the fuck off with the 3ds, losing a character and shit for modes nobody plays because
>SAME BUT DIFFERENT!!
wasn't worth it
Ryus down b is just super armor.
>>339525071
Nope, its simple reasoning. They counterattack, and it's one of the main gimmicks of the game, I don't see any reason not to put it in.
>>339525095
You are mixing two genres, turn based games are not tactical rpgs, you said it was how turn based games work.
>>339525626
Regardless of my misstatement, its not something unique to FE, also I'm pretty sure FE actually has counters, units attacking in the same turn isn't the same
>>339525239
Yeah, because shitty characters like Roy and Shulk really need something that needs to be nerfed
>>339513369
I agree with you except with Shulk and Bayo.
I main Shulk and I have to say his counter is broken AF.
>Counter has HUGE range and 2 variants, one which increases launch.
>Can use Shield buff to stay alive with maximum rage (150%+)
>Can put on Smash buff to further improve launch and kill someone at say 50%.
Bayo on the other hand:
>She slows her opponent for a long ass time if she doesn't use her counter for a while.
>She can counter the smallest hit and hit back with a decently charged smash attack.
Might as well have given her a KO like Little Mac's I mean wtf.
>>339525372
Changing a weapon and some hitbox data isn't the same as loading up a completely different character, though. I can't imagine it being any more intensive than keeping track of Olimar's pikmin.
Everyone shut the fuck up and talk about the real OG counter that started it all
>Fox
>>339520803
>tfw the threshold is still undervalued
>>339525767
It is the same, its a counterattack, look up the definition of a counterattack, hell, I'll just post it for you.
coun·ter·at·tack
ˈkoun(t)ərəˌtak/
noun
1.
an attack made in response to one by an enemy or opponent.
verb
1.
attack in response.
"as deputies tried to dislodge him, he counterattacked by forcing through elections"
>>339525825
I don't really get how you would do stuff like dancing blade with a spear but whatever
>>339512853
Why the fuck did you post Ryu?
But yeah, Nintendo went fucking full retard with them.
>>339525968
Except in both smash and (recent)FE a counter ingame doesn't actually do damage to the person countering, while in game thats just normal battle.
With this logic anyone who hits back after being hit is doing a counter, you're just using definitions when the game mechanic is different.
>>339512853
Sakurai did go overboard with the counters, yes.
>>339525626
That is not simple reasoning and enemies attacking back is not a counter
A counter is when you parry an attack and immediately respond with your own attack while the enemy is off balance.
A counter is not receiving a sword to the face and then you try to get your own once both of them have reset to a neutral position
>>339526096
You're wrong, in newer FEs, the counter ability does not actually keep the user from being harmed, it just deals back the same damage the user took.
>>339526529
Well then, does that mean the counter in smash isn't even the same as the actual counter in FE?
>Robin can actually learn counter unlike Marth/Lucina/Roy in his game
>instead his down b is an attack he can't use ingame in his boxart class
>>339526181
Counter is short for counterattack, a counterattack is an attack made in response to an attack.
>>339526650
Yes, there is no counter in any FE that works the same as in Smash, they took liberties with it in Smash.
My argument has been that it makes sense for why the characters have it.
>>339512853
DUDE, REFLECTOR LMAO!!!!.
>>339526915
Counter actually is its own word, counterattack is a tactic
>>339527141
>G&W
I like this shitpost
>>339526915
In response to an attack immediately after said attack
Like I said, after both of them have taken their distance and reset to a neutral position then it doesn't count as a counter anymore and that is how the whole system for FE is like
Look at actual counters in FE, the counter happens immediately after the opponent attacks and before they make some distance between them
There is a reason why the counter skill exists in FE, and that is because normal attacks do not count as counterattacks and the game knows it
>>339527265
The bucket is as much of a reflector as Ryu's focus attack is a counter
>>339527141
There is literally nothing wrong with shitting on projectiles. Projectiles should not be something you're able to constantly throw out with no worry of any kind of punish.
>>339527660
So it's not the lack of creativity inherit in counters, but rather the fact that you can't git gud enough to beat them that's getting you so mad?
How hilarious.
>>339527141
Megaman?
>>339527141
>megaman
you're going to have to explain that one.
>>339527163
I was not aware of that, I'll admit I was wrong there.
>>339527272
The normal attacks are counterattacks, the counter ability is also a counterattack, they may act differently, but they are still both counterattacks.
>>339527850
Never said I couldn't beat them
>>339527141
>megaman
>using custom moves
>>339527972
>The normal attacks are counterattacks
Then why not just give a counterattack to almost every character then?
If all it takes is being able to attack an enemy that is on the offensive then nearly all of them fill the requisite to have a counter
>>339527940
>>339527957
Custom Skull Barrier is a reflector
>>339527850
I'm not the guy you replied to but,
I have to figure something is wrong.
>Play Shulk only
>I go to 1 on 1
>Match starts, the other guy is DK.
>He literally grabs me the entire match, not once did he risk hitting me when I was not staggered.
>>339527141
desu I am not sure why ROB can reflect with his side B.
I assume you are talking about Ness/Lucas ability to side smash projectiles, and not absorb them?
>>339528517
So your basing your reasoning against one match against a shit player?
>>339528517
It's DK all he wants to do is grab you
>>339528402
>Then why not just give a counterattack to almost every character then?
>Implying they haven't
But seriously, the reason why is because other characters actually have plenty of interesting things to use for moves, FE characters don't have that kind of stuff, especially older characters like Marth and Roy.
>>339528517
No, as I said I only play Shulk.
Many players try to avoid fighting me or leave after 1 match as I use counter to its fullest effects.
See >>339525824
>>339528907
>FE characters don't have that kind of stuff
Sakurai gave Marth and Roy a counter to represent how fighting in their games work (the attacker attacks, then the defender gets a chance to counterattack), which is actually a pretty cool to represent the turnbased mechanics of FE.
>>339520359
she would be better withlightweight
>>339528769
>I assume you are talking about Ness/Lucas ability to side smash projectiles, and not absorb them?
Naturally. That only works on energy attacks anyway.
