Does anyone else dislike the boss fights of Dark Souls 3?
I really enjoy the exploration, item finding and combat with enemies of roughly equal power, so every bossfight is just a massive stumbling block that breaks up the enjoyable gameplay and forces me to play a completely different game of running into a brick wall over and over again until I can beat the boss. Every time I see a fog wall I sigh and realise that I will have to fight a stupid boss instead of enjoying the atmosphere and smaller-scale challenges of DS.
In DS1 I never felt like I *had* to fight a boss at that moment - there was always other stuff to do, areas to explore, etc. I could come to the boss in my own time, and if I was getting frustrated I could just do somethign else for a bit.
In DS3 I don't feel that I have multiple paths to take, and I dont feel like I have anythign to do except spawn, sprint to bossfog, fight, die, repeat. I have tried to resist summoning 3 phantoms, picking up a greatshield and cheesing every boss, but my resolve is wearing thin.
I find the bosses more a matter of patience than anything else - its just rolling through 5-6 attacks, getting a single hit in, repeat for 20 minutes. When I die its either from fucking up a roll or from getting impatient and trying to go for 2 hits instead of 1. Its not really engaging or interesting once youve fought and died to the boss once - every other time is just an exercise in buttonpushing.
I wish that there were less bosses, or alternatively that I had different shit I could do if I wanted to. Am I just a casual or what?
Nah, you're just a scrub. And so is everyone who seriously using 1 hit and roll roll roll tactic.
No, they were on average the best bosses in the series.
>>339510060
How else do you fight bosses like Lothric princes, Dancer, Dragonslayer, etcetera?
you cant parry all their attacks, they recover too quick to hit more than twice with my strength build, you cant block their magic/lightning/fire attacks properly with a sword, and you cant stagger them reliably.
>>339510160
can you talk about why you think that?
>>339509898
Some of them are pretty badly designed, Vordt for instance you can literally just sit under his ass and spam him to death while he swings at nothing. Some of them though are really cool, like Champ Gundyr. You can do the "roll roll hit" approach and be there for 20 mins per boss or you can git gud and go on the offensive.
>>339510364
in what way can you go on the offensive vs champ? im still on the Princes, so I havent fought him.
>>339510343
The gimmick bosses were mostly interesting, the dude vs dude bosses were fun and reasonably challenging, and there wasn't a single boss I really disliked. They also had some incredibly cool designs and introductions.
>>339510503
what about the dude vs dude bosses was fun? I found them an exercise in repetition myself.
>>339510495
Try parrying and going for viscerals
>>339510665
They usually didn't have that much HP and had multiple phases, changing up their attack patterns halfway through. Are you sure you aren't just using an unupgraded weapon?
>>339510710
Sure. But isnt parrying all the time equally as repetitive as roll,roll,swing gameplay, just even more punishing for if you mistime the buttonpressing? Its just stand in front of the guy, hit R2, attack, repeat.
>>339510843
Ok, go try it and tell me how it goes.
>>339510343
>How else do you fight bosses like Lothric princes, Dancer, Dragonslayer, etcetera?
Learn their patterns.
>they recover too quick to hit more than twice with my strength build
Well maybe stop using giant anime sword then, if you're not good enough for it. You can make any weapon into str weapon. And there's no excuse for getting only one hit if you're using scrubstraight swords.
nope not really
>>339510818
>>339511101
I've been using a Heavy Pickaxe +7 and sometimes an Astora's Greatsword +5.
and yeah i guess they did change their attack patterns, but the different animations didnt really mean much as you deal with all attacks the exact same way - you just roll/back off until they finish. I did like some bossfights though - I liked Deacons, Abyss Watchers and Yorm.
>>339510919
Yes, its tough, but its not challenging anything except for your ability to press a button during the right few milliseconds. Its just timing, there is no tactical or strategic thought involved. I dont feel like there is a difference between parry-killing a boss and that satirical buttonpushing game from the Stanley Parable. One just has prettier graphics.
>>339511101
>learn their patterns
and then when youve done that, what can you do except roll,roll,swing? parry? cause i feel like that is just as boring.
>>339511287
That's literally the game. Most games, in fact. Once you know how to beat them, you beat them, and then you're done.
>>339511287
And then yougit gud
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WagY0KJ7dc
>>339511192
>playing games is basically pressing buttons, that's not challenging
Time for a new hobby?
Mandatory vote
http://www.strawpoll.me/10097196/
Mandatory vote
>>339511192
If you're choosing to not have any strategic thinking there wont be any. Game gives you plenty of tools, but of course instead of learning the game it's easier to just get the biggest sword, dump stats in strenght and then wonder why your gameplay consist of only hitting things very slowly.
I just spent 2 fucking hours on this asshole, getting him down to a few hits, then getting one shotted because of the clones and awful camera.
>>339511740
Maybe its weird of me, but I prefer the grand decisionmaking aspect of gameplay over the physical inputs - stuff like "which road do I take", "which faction do i side with", "which weapon do I use for this enemy", etc etc.
Challenges that rely around specific feats of button inputting do not interest me that much.
>>339511928
I really enjoy combat with small creatures and in PvP though. I like careful spacing, playing mindgames with quick weaponswaps, baiting attacks and clever trades. But these strategic/tactical aspects of DS combat are not evident in dark souls 3
>Spacing
all the bosses have huge swords and massive hitboxes, so you cant outrange or space them. spacing also doesnt work because there is no latency
>mindgames
bosses substitute smart AI for lots of health, so you cant do this. In PvP its fun to do things like predict that someone will parry spam when on low HP, but bosses dont have any such human thoughts to exploit.
>baiting attacks
again, bosses dont fall for this kinda thing
>clever trades
since the boss has poise and you dont, this is impossible. The boss wins everytime.
And I dont think its unreasonable to expect that I should be able to enjoy a game without strictly adhering to a certain build.
>>339512213
>having trouble with crystal sage
Holy shit you're in for a wild ride.
>>339512213
Is this your first Souls game or something?
>>339510503
>and there wasn't a single boss I really disliked.
Twin Princes isn't any fun
Deacons is a horrible fight if you have a poke weapon or a dagger.
Champion Gundyr might be the biggest disappointment of the game. BTW he can be parried on the top of that.
Dragonslayer armor is in many ways a shit boss
Old Demon King is a good example of my point i think.
He has a ton of HP, huge AoE attacks that you cant block or parry, he doesnt have interesting movement, and there are no interesting gimmicks.
its just you, a big dude, and a ton of HP.
boring as fuck imo.
>>339512213
That has to be hands down the easiest boss in the entire fucking game.
Even as someone who literally just started playing any dark souls game a week ago, i had a harder time with the damn tutorial boss than him
>>339512530
No, and I have had no problems with anything except him and it is mostly because of the shit housed camera. I just beat the abyss watchers, in 2 tries
>>339509898
>Static picture
>He doesn't have the gif
>>339512635
Deacons and Princes are cool as fuck in terms of presentation, though, and were easy enough that there wasn't really anything to be annoyed by.
I really enjoyed Champion Gundyr's updated moveset. Admittedly I didn't try to parry him because I got him in two tries anyway, but his moves were cool and fun to dodge.
Dragonslayer Armor I agree with though, he was entirely forgettable. I wouldn't say I dislike him simply because on any repeat playthroughs I'll probably just steam through him like I did before, but he's definitely uninteresting.
>>339513126
please post it then
>>339513181
>>339512321
>all the bosses have huge swords and massive hitboxes, so you cant outrange or space them. spacing also doesnt work because there is no latency
Your logic is basically: spacing is hard therefore it's impossible.
>bosses substitute smart AI for lots of health
Most bosses go down in 4 well put combos. And what kind of mind games are you expecting from AI, they work in patterns, that you learn and use. And those patterns are pretty damn good if you're almost finished the game and still think getting one hit and then roll away is a viable tactic.
>again, bosses dont fall for this kinda thing
Except when they do. I wonder how many tries it took you for Pontiff, if you didn't bait him in the second stage.
>since the boss has poise and you dont, this is impossible. The boss wins everytime.
Simultaneous hits are possible, so you're just plain wrong here. Besides you can roll after the first attack most of the time, so there's almost no use for poise anyway. And for huge weapon you also have hyper armor.
Basically you're just whining that you can't figure out how it actually works. You want to explore locations, factions and weapons, but not the combat itself, so naturally it's not gonna be exciting for you.
>>339513343
aaah, thats good shit
thanks man
>>339513540
>1
no, spacing is literally impossible. i dont think it means what you think it means.
it relies on there being a good halfsecond of latency to work.
>2
how do you combo a boss? does it rely on using a dualwield build? cause i havent ever been able to do it with my Pickaxe.
>3.
i mean more sophisticated baits. Like switching to a spear causing a PvP opponent to stay further away from you and then hitting them with a pyromancy now theyre too far away to interrupt. thats the shit i like, not just trivial stuff like standing still so they attack you, or getting them to follow you around.
>4.
yes, you can get in one simultaneous hit. but you still cant trade, because not only is it impossible to get in a followup hit, bosses have tons more health and deal more damage than you.
and i cant address your oblique references to me not understanding how things work, for obvious reasons. do you think you could share with me some of the game mechanics that you think i am not aware of?
>>339514081
>how do I combo?
You can't tap the attack button again after your swing is done?
>>339514370
sure I can get in two, sometimes three hits in consecutively. but it does not take nearly "4 combos" to kill a boss in my experience, so I assumed you were talking about something else.
>>339513540
>Besides you can roll after the first attack most of the time,
Only 2 weapon classes allows you to do that.
Most of them don't allow you to do the same if you performed a Heavy Attack.
Most of the bosses is painful with spears or any heavy weapon, simply because gauging if you can charge a heavy or not is halfway impossible to actually do.
>>339514081
>no, spacing is literally impossible. i dont think it means what you think it means.
Spacing is using the space between you and boss for your advantage. You use it for saving stamina by just walking back instead of rolling around like a retard. Get in range of attack in one roll on boss' last attack so you can do some actual damage instead of rolling on the other side of the room and then running all the way back and then wonder why can hit only once.
You can use spacing in a lot of ways instead of just hoping that you have bigger sword than boss.
>how do you combo a boss?
Same way you combo everyone else. You just use clever positioning and timing for bosses.
>i mean more sophisticated baits. Like switching to a spear causing a PvP opponent to stay further away from you and then hitting them with a pyromancy now theyre too far away to interrupt.
Well then imagine that they figured out your genius pyromancy plan and just beat your ass then and there whether you were with a spear or a pickaxe. They're fucking AI dude, AI programmed in logic strings. They will act as they programmed. Mind games are only possible in PvP.
>yes, you can get in one simultaneous hit. but you still cant trade
You can trade hits, but you can't trade hits. Nice.
>because not only is it impossible to get in a followup hit
Most bosses can't neither, because you can just roll away after first hit, unless it's some combo string that they usually telegraph.
>bosses have tons more health and deal more damage than you.
And you have healing items.
>and i cant address your oblique references to me not understanding how things work, for obvious reasons. do you think you could share with me some of the game mechanics that you think i am not aware of?
Boss patterns seems like the thing you first heard in this thread. Not using boring shitty str build with no utilities is also a good option. And there's a more if you're just use google if you're too lazy to go look on your own.
>>339515606
Weapon class doesn't matter, since after being staggered by boss' strike you can instantly roll away. The only exception I can think of is SoC cuhrazee second stage combo.
>>339509898
i have no real problems with any of the bosses
i just find souls and bb to be way overhyped
(because they are)
souls has some decent moments here and there, but overall the gameplay is just bland and nothing significant
but it gets extra special chinese points because of literally neogaf and "its ok when japan makes a mediocre game"
technically souls is all they have, so there is extra anal defense over their chinese game
>>339516059
>Same way you combo everyone else.
Players don't have Poise. And very few weapons inflict enough Stagger to even try to go for it.
Only some weapons, like the Skeleton Wheel can actually be used to combo bosses.
>>339516524
Deacons attacks causes knockdown to avoid perma stagger.
Many NPCs have perma stagger attacks.
I am just glad bosses don't but you can still die to inputing roll 1-2 frames before getting hit.
>>339516059
No, spacing is stepping into another attack and attacking while the other guy is still in his attack animation. It relies upon latency meaning that although on your screen you walk right into the swing, on the other guys swing you are fine.
i can see why youd get confused, i think that your meaning of "spacing" is used for other games.
and as for trading, being able to hit the guy once and then being pummeled into the ground is not trading. you literally cant trade any boss except for maybe deacons.
healing items are not fun, and they shouldnt be required for anything.
where have i displayed an ignorance towards boss patterns. my whole point is that boss patterns are dull and boring.
and as for not using a certain build, thats bullshit. if dark souls requires a dex build to be fun, then thats shit game design.
similarly, if i have to use google to enjoy a game, thats shit game design.
>>339516949
>No, spacing is stepping into another attack and attacking while the other guy is still in his attack animation
You mean staggering by using a faster weapon? Or trading via latency?
>>339517324
nope
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-mvEEezoAI
>>339516918
Combo on bosses is about using time between attacks and advantageous position to make as many his as possible. So you actually have to use skills instead of spamming r1.
>Deacons attacks causes knockdown to avoid perma stagger.
End result is the same. You don't get hit more than once.
>Many NPCs have perma stagger attacks.
We're talking about bosses here.
>I am just glad bosses don't but you can still die to inputing roll 1-2 frames before getting hit.
Well you just have to properly time rolls then.
>>339517638
god how retarded are you
>>339517485
Why not just kill it kiting?
Or latency prediction?
>>339517865
if you like
but id heard it called spacing
>>339517638
>So you actually have to use skills instead of spamming r1.
Sorry m8, the game don't work like that.
The entire art of fighting a boss is generally to just keep on rolling until combo stop. Now, if you know the boss pattern, you know if you can use all your stamina on R1 attacks with Rapiers/Swords/Daggers/Fast weapons. If you use a slower weapon, you have to charge a Heavy Attack instead.
Now if you don't know the boss, you basically need to permanently block with a heavy shield until you figured out the attack window.
But this in itself doesn't change anything when Sword R1 spam deals a lot more damage than the equal amounts of charged R2s with a stronger weapon.
And because bosses don't stagger, a lot of charge attacks and specials is useless.
I.E Dragonslayer Spears charge.
>>339516949
>No, spacing is stepping into another attack and attacking while the other guy is still in his attack animation. It relies upon latency meaning that although on your screen you walk right into the swing, on the other guys swing you are fine.
Spacing on bosses isn't the same as spacing in PvP.
>and as for trading, being able to hit the guy once and then being pummeled into the ground is not trading
You traded blows, you damaged boss. You got hit, but you can heal and boss can't, so there's advantage.
>healing items are not fun, and they shouldnt be required for anything.
That's just your arbitrary rule.
>where have i displayed an ignorance towards boss patterns. my whole point is that boss patterns are dull and boring.
Where you said that you can only hit them once.
>if dark souls requires a dex build to be fun, then thats shit game design.
You can spice up any build. Just gotta get creative with that.
>>339518471
Not OP, but I literally just watched a LobosJr speedrun where he said that for most bosses you can only hit them once.
>>339518632
Well then some speedrunner is a retard. What else is new?
>>339518787
Actually what i was implying there is that you're the retard.
>>339518115
I don't really see what you're disproving here by that. My statement was that you need to use the brain with to actually get into good enough position to spam r1, not that weapon arts are not complete ass in 90% of situation.
>>339518471
>Spacing on bosses isn't the same as spacing in PvP.
Its mostly the same. Except most bosses have insane range and very fast followup combos.
You can space on bosses, but its very unsafe. Especially when rolling into the boss is the safe option.
>>339518632
One hit is "safe". You can literally kill Nameless King first try by doing one hit pokes and healing, simply because its ultra safe.
Most fast bosses allow 3 hits during their first phase, and 2 during 2nd, for Swords.
>>339518918
Rich coming from someone who watches speedrunners.
>>339519437
>waah waah stop liking things i dont like
mmkay buddy
>>339519386
>Its mostly the same.
Definition is not the same, because you can't do spacing the same way on bosses.
It's not even DS3 thing. In most souls games bosses have huge distance advantage.
>>339519278
Which again comes back to Prince Lothric existing.
Princes Lothric is a teleporting boss that ignores spacing. A aggressive fast boss who ignores spacing, and has the attack range of a Ultra Great sword on his normal attacks, and outrange the Pike on stabs.
And Dragon Armor, who you can't space kite safely because he is a SHIELD BOSS.
>>339519641
>In most souls games bosses have huge distance advantage.
In previous games, you could. You move just outside of their combo range, backstep on combos,and then do a running attack during the last swing.
>>339509898
or you could try playing a real combat rpg like witcher 3 instead of Japanese artificial difficulty/hand of god simulators
>>339509898
You're casual as all fuck. Bosses in Souls games are the best part. Just stop playing Souls games altogether please
>>339519726
>>339519939
Well stop using spacing then. It's a shit tactic against bosses anyway.
>>339513113
You needed to kill the clones As fast as you can. Moving side to side, i had problem with him too but once i got gud it was easy
