Why do most people who play video games choose to be moralfags?
>>339366452
Why do some people who play video games choose to be an edgelords?
Most people self insert
Fuck off edgelord degenerate.
A lot of people self insert and a most people are not videogame villain level dickbags.
The fear of consequences and utter lack of imagination.
The latter also contributes to people doing 100% good and 100% evil playthroughs with zero variation. The average AAA consumer these days is unable to come up with a moral hierarchy for the character they roleplay as, unless it's a cardboard copy of themself.
I don't want to hurt the nice virtual people. They're the only friends I have.
>Try to be evil.
>Become an asshole within the first hour.
>End up being straight up moralfag before being even halfway through the game.
Every single time!
>>339366452
>friend invites me over to play some HD games
>he puts Skyrim on like a total wanker
>asks me if I want to play
>do the tutorial and get to the next town
>kill a chicken
>this sets off the whole town
>slaughter everyone while hiding behind my crutch healing magic
>he turns the console off because I "wasn't playing properly"
I found out later that he can't bring himself to go evil at all unless it's for achievements.
Playing good in games often rewards you with quests, items or some other shit.
Because good/evil routes in videogames are always stupid black or white shit like "SAVE the baby or EAT the baby??"
And being an edgelord character is for 13 year olds.
I'd much rather have, say, the percantage of people that choose chaos/neutral/order in nocturne
>>339366452
Most choices are between
>help people, good things happen to you, happy ending and everyone loves you
>be a dickhead to everyone and ruin shit just because
Why would you want to shit on people for no reason?
>>339366452
They're adults.
>>339367058
Your friend is a faggot
>>339366938
Games almost always reward 100% evil or good playthroughs. If you do neutral shit, you end up missing out on best stuff.
It's usually more rewarding.
To be evil, all you have to do is kill people and ruin shit.
To be good you actively have to help people and earn their trust and respect.
It's more satisfying in most videogames.
>>339367058
>HD Games
Are you like 12?
>>339366452
Because usually games reward moralfaggotry more than anything else with getting the best endings and the most sidequests.
>>339367187
cmon now
>>339366452
I usually come up with a character idea in my head first and then play that. Usually good or neutral, but I'll go full evil if the game lets you do over-the-top edgy shit, or if it has mustache-twirling cartoon villainy
>>339366452
fallout 3 for example
>won't blow up megaton
>do this because I would lose content
>won't murder scavengers
>might need them later and also losing content
>hate killing named npcs because losing content
anyone else?
>>339367172
As it should be. Neutrals deserves nothing.
>>339367397
Eat shit, fag
>tfw genuinely enjoy playing evil characters regardless of how black and white and over the top it goes
I cant slaughter people and be an asshole IRL, I can in vidya.
>>339366938
Why does the average AAA consumer even need to come up with a moral hierarchy for the character they roleplay as? The reason people play these kinda games is to put themselves into fictional circumstances, to explore their own real life character and to see the message that the devs prepared in effect personally to them in the form of in-game consequences of their choices. I'd say it's the bullshit roleplaying way you're promoting that's deviant and unnatural.
>>339367457
>I can't slaughter people and be an asshole irl
You can
Videogame writers can't write evil characters, all evil routes are written like the character is a cartoonish chaotic evil mustache twirling satan reincarnation that would ruin lifes for funsies.
>>339367351
Nah, I did everything evil in fallout 3 and I dont give a rats ass how many quests go with it, theres always other playthroughs.
>>339366452
Fuck your bait, post the best endings in games where you have multiple endings. inb4 neutralfags shit up the thread
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nUjV5xDqVg
>>339367351
Last Bethesda game I played was Oblivion
>super edgy Argonian assassin character
>go around killing as many non-essential characters as I can get away with
>later in the game, try thieves guild quest
>"go to this town and talk to one of the beggars for info"
>literally 0 beggars left alive when I get there
>have to look up a guide on how to finish the quest
The worst thing you can do is add a point system to it. Once people see a little meter tick in a certain direction every time they take gold off a table, they stop doing it. I think the whole appeal of evil is that you can get away with as much shit as possible by being selfish and it's rewarding if you do. I think the Witcher is the only game Ive seen that didn't totally fuck this up. It was nice to see my choices not always end a certain way I wanted them to, and I did find myself occasionally killing innocents if it totally suited me/if I really thought some people needed to be put in the dirt.
>>339367516
Yeah, once, then I either gotta an hero or spend time in jail with no fucking vidya.
>>339366938
It really isn't entirely the consumers fault. Games lend themselves to these absolutes lines of morality so easily.
If you want characters with nuanced moral hierarchy, you need situations to compel them away from being good.
Why should I help these bandits if I'll make more money saving this town and having people to trade with even while playing someone who'll demand a reward after the fighting is done or do some work with the local corrupt officials?
>>339367274
>hg games
>Cmon now
You can't be real. Now I know this is bait.
>tfw evil routes always are overdone but never to the point where it gets so exagerrated it loops back into being fun
>>339366452
Because "evil" choices in games are 99% shit for you. There's almost no benefit to doing so and more often than not it's just some retard shit like
>grr I'm mean I'm going to kick this puppy for no reason and then the puppy won't help me in a later event
or
>I'm going to say a mean thing to you to make you give me money even though had I said a good thing you'd have rewarded me with money anyway.
or
>None of my choices up to this point ever actually had any long-term consequences, so even though I've been a goody two shoes the entire time, I'm going to pick the evil choice here just so I can get the evil ending
>not playing at least twice with different choices
casuals
for a first playthrough, i usually do in game what i think about doing afk.
if i like the game and go for multiple playthroughs, then i'd roleplay as other things
>>339367582
>once
casual
Because not every game is SMT where you actually can make a good choice either way.
Most games have the black or white decision, with one being clearly bad and the other being clearly good. So you can either be a total douchebag or a savior.
In SMT you can follow evil or good and do what you think is best for everyone either way.
SMT IV even puts you in the position where helping the Law means keeping everything in order, but also helping a faggot that want to rule tokyo by using people as food for demons, while following the chaos allows you to fuck up said faggot, but also puts on the line the lives of many others, so you have to concretely think about the consequences of both decisions.
>>339367587
Are you autistic?
>Being mean in a video game
>>339367585
They should make a game where the pros and cons of being good or evil are more pronounced. Like being good gets you more reputation and social standing, but evil nets more material wealth.
Or maybe evil is just more profitable but the punishment for breaking the law is severe and hard to avoid.
Because most games are designed with going 100% in one direction, you always miss good content going neutral.
To be honest the best game for branching moral paths was Shadow the fucking Hedgehog
>>339366452
Most of the "evil" paths are just being an asshole while the "good" decisions are just not being an asshole. If the writing in the game was less pretentious i would probably pick evil more often. The only game i really remember "evil" being written halfway decent was KOTOR and KOTOR 2.
>>339367727
Law and Chaos are not equivalent to Good and Evil.
>>339366452
Because you have to grow out of being a misanthrope. I want to get along with people, being a dick for the sake of it wears off once you're out of your encyclopedia drammatica stage.
>>339367659
This
a truly good evil choice would be like
>you decide to build a factory and mislead the local populace about the chemicals being dispersed into the water supply, you will make a lot of money but some people will get cancer. You will never be held accountable for your actions.
>>339366452
>being a generally good person is a bad thing
typical /v/
>>339367824
Why does everybody despiseems dramatica? Only been on a couple times, but I do enjoy a site that is blatantly angry to literally everything just for the sake of it. That's basically why we're all on here. Also
>this is the first thread I've seen not devolve into shitposting on /v for months
making 'evil' choices almost always means losing out on more of the game because there are fewer 'evil' quests. Or you'll piss off everyone and lose any meaningful interaction with them. Or you'll piss off literally everyone because your evil deeds are somehow transmitted via psychic waves and nobody will want to deal with your character even if they've never met you.
Also evil routes tend to be less rewarding and more poorly written. Often the 'bad' choices are just 'greedy'. Often the 'good' routes are longer because you have to go do something like "beat some bad guys" whereas the evil route is "go beat some harmless babies resting in their cribs".
There's tons of other reason but those are just the top ones I can think of. Just in general, evil routes aren't worth playing because the game designers don't put much time or effort into them.
>>339367801
>but evil nets more material wealth.
This really doesn't work. Social standing is worth more and there are other ways to make money.
Fable 3 tried to do the whole, "if you're nice people will like you, but you won't have money to fight the big bad. Do the opposite, and people will hate you, but they'll be alive" thing.
So what does this mean? Well, people liking me means they give me gifts and free stuff, so I did some ingame part time jobs, build up some cash, proceeded to buy every house in the kingdom, kicked rent up to max while everyone loved me, saved everyone, then gave everyone free rent and stopped charging tax. You need a very tight control on cash and what it can get you if you want money to be a serious reward when a little hard work can get you the best of both worlds.
The only times I really pulled of a true neutral character was in Baldurs Gate 1+2 enhanced edition.
Having all the new characters and Viconia forced me to be a fucking psychopath. Taking rewards for doing the best possible thing for each questgiver no matter what moral standarts it might imply, though mostly moralfaggery but also murdering innocent people to keep my reputation low enough for Faggot Orc, the Vampire and said dark elf.
Atleast I finally got to kill that silver dragon in the underdark.
>>339367915
>thinking the" -fag" addition to words is necessarily a bad thing
I don't think youve been on here long enough to know typical /v/, newfriend
>>339367972
Pick your threads better.
And no, not a lot of people are here to be angry. This is an enthusiast forum, and most anger is the result of either debate or frustration.
The "RAGE" twits are just teenagers and manchildren.
>>339367659
I'm somewhat fond of Bioware style cartoon villainy, as seen in Jade Empire.
>NPC: Thank god you're here! There's some bandits over there, they ambushed our merchant group. Please help!
>Choice A: Of course, I'll save your friends! Lead the way!
>Choice B: A weakling who runs away deserves to be killed! Die!
And no, it's not an ambush or anything, his friends were really attacked by bandits.
>>339367972
>this is the first thread I've seen not devolve into shitposting on /v for months
I've seen multiple threads today that didn't devolve into shitposting
>encyclopedia dramatica
Haven't been there in many years (probably since 2006 or earlier) but I think a major reason 4channers dislike it is, it keeps a catalogue of popular memes and explains them to outsiders. Kind of like how everyone here dislikes Reddit and Knowyourmeme. Knowledge of memes or lack thereof is supposed to be a 4chan shibboleth and channers hate it when they're made too accessible.
>>339367172
Infamous is worst for this, especially with some of the later games choices being better yet non-canon.
>Go fuck up the anti-conduit propaganda group and kill their leader before hooking up with Fetch
>Go blow up some boats and that's about it
>>339367854
As an evil person, I'd rather not shit where I'll rule one day.
Keeping my city a shining beacon will bring in cash on it's own and it'll look nice. Keep heavy industry for other people's lands or well away from population centers. Those people with cancer need to be productive and fight in my armies.
Because videogame writing is bad. Being evil just equals to being a genocidal maniac.
There is no logical realistic reason to be evil in videogames unless it's either "I want the evil route reward that is mutually exclusive (eg. powers and waifu in infamous 2) or "I already did everything else, so might aswell fuck stuff up for funsies (most rpgs). Most games have no in-universe reason to be a cunt. There's no temptation.
>>339368138
I agree that I don't pick good threads here, which is why I've moved boards for the most part, but that didn't really answer the question. You just re-expressed that you don't like RAGE through ad hominem
>>339366452
Because the evil path most often is written like shit.
> Be an arrogant illogical jerk for no reason
>>339366452
Because they lack a sense of humour, or perhaps they just don't rejoice in schadenfreude.
>>339368298
If you're not malevolent, then you're just a regular egomaniac.
>>339368354
>Be an arrogant illogical jerk for no reason
Have you never met an asshole in real life.
Go outside more anon.
>Why do most people who play video games choose to be moralfags?
Because fucking nobody is evil for the sake of being evil, that's not how being evil works.
You're evil for personal benefits, you put yourself before others, being good is the reward in itself. But often in games it's-
GOOD CHOICE
Angel Sword+everybody loves you!
EVIL CHOICE
Demon Sword+everybody fucking hates your goddamn guts.
That's not how it works.
People are naturally good.
If you aren't you should be removed, because you are clearly defective.
>>339366452
Because being a decent human being comes naturally to most, even in the virtual world.
>>339368398
I've seen them, and most of the time there's a perfectly logical explanation for why they are assholes - trauma, stress, previous bad experiences with a certain group etc.
>>339368435
>People are naturally good.
Then why do they do bad? Ignorance?
>>339368251
That makes more sense. I always attributed it to being 1d4chan for memes, and I honestly read 1d4chan for leasure. Something about 4chans take on 40k fluff is the funniest goddamn thing to me, and the info is pretty solid too
>>339368374
Malevolence balanced with practicality, but feel free to use whatever label you prefer. Now fetch me those foreign slaves I ordered. I'm ready for lichdom.
>>339368349
No shit my distaste for a fucking emotion is expressed through ad-hominem, it's a fucking emotion. I hope you weren't expecting an academic dissertation, you dumb shit.
I hate rage for the sake of rage faggots because they shit up discussion into shitposting and blandly expressing epithets over shit they claim to despise but can't stop discussing. Sad fucking cyclical discussions that went nowhere and did nothing for years on fucking end.
ED was part of that cycle. Do I have a single fucking citation for that? Of course the fuck not.
Course you're a fuck crossboarder. Get the fuck out of here. Go fuck off to whatever board you moved to. "First thread in months" you little shit I bet you only posted in console war threads like the cancerous fuck you are.
>>339366452
Because games often lock things behind the moral choices, being neutral giving you nearly none of the upgrades, whilst 100% good or bad giving you the best upgrades, but in general making good just all that much better because the devs themselves are moralfags. Not to mention the evil playthrough is often riddled with cringeworthy dialogue.
>>339368496
Yeah okay reddit, everyones just misunderstood poor things who do no wrong, fuck off now.
99.9999% of games have shitty evil routes with awful writing that block out half the game and awful rewards, so there's no roleplay or rollplay reason to ever take them.
>do quest
>pick good route
>get one of a kind powerful magic artifact worth 9999999 gold and reputation boost that unlocks more quests and discounts
>pick evil route
>get 100 gold
Every time.
>>339368518
>bad
From my perspective, the children were evil.
>>339368518
If there was one answer to that, philosophy, justice, law, and sociology wouldn't be so damn confusing and up for debate
>>339366452
Because most people who play video games are normalfags.
Consider driving down a street with people along the sidewalk. Most people would never even ponder what would happen if they just drove down the pavement and ran over pedestrians. Bill Burr, yes.
>>339368518
People are capable of justifying anything to themselves.
It's more true to say that very few people believe they are doing bad. No-one (apart from a few edgelords) willingly does evil.
>>339367351
Spot on. If you kill an NPC, theres a slim chance you may lose content. I'm a perfectionist when I play RPGs, so I never kill anyone that I don't need to kill. I would also add, it can dampen the immersive feeling in a game. If you kill all the NPCs in a village, it ruins the immersion as the setting of RPGs is often highly influenced by the characters which inhabit it. Removal of ambient conversations taking place between NPCs actually does a great deal to make a game less enthralling in my opinion.
>>339366452
Because most people who play video games are humans with empathy which is triggered regardless of whether the scenario is real or not.
>>339366452
Depends on the game to be honest.
In New Vegas it just felt right to not be a dick in that world, and it's probably the most profitable in terms of quest availability / rewards.
In a lot of games actually you don't get as much out of the plot by just always taking the most negative route every time, it closes parts of the game off and becomes stale pretty quick.
>haha he wants my help I'm just gonna kill him and take all his stuff xppppp
>>339368578
Thank you for responding
>>339367058
skyrim on console....
>>339368690
>most people
Everyone has intrusive thoughts.
>>339368415
I was playing this Neverwinter Nights module that really bothered me with this. I wasn't even playing a super evil character either, just a chaotic neutral sorceror.
At one point you encounter a demon holding a bunch of people hostage. He promises you great power if you help him by preparing a special elixir for him to drink. Choices include:
>go along with his plan in exchange for "great power" which ends up being 1700 xp
>fight him and save the hostages (5000 xp)
>pretend to go along with his plan but spike the elixir with holy water so you can easily kill him and save the hostages (5000 xp)
There was another module where a demon is about to kill some asshole you have no reason to like. You can either allow the demon to kill them, or appease the demon by offering it 10% of all the exp you earned up to that point. If you pick the good option you basically lose an entire character level for nothing, since the character you save fucks off shortly afterward.
>>339366452
Playing evil route in RPGs is basically easy mode and potentially cut you off from lots of content.
Can't be arsed reading through the thread to see if this has already been posted but...
>Evil routes are usually an afterthought or just put in for the hell of it, and because of this the quality drop is clearly visible.
>Evil routes give you worse rewards, which is fucking retarded if you actually think about it.
>>339366452
The good routes are just overall better, with way more options and work put into them. It's a sad and unfortunate truth.
its fairly simple
in the vast majority of games the evil options are objectively the worst options thus even an evil character would have no need to actually do those evil actions.
I mean take all the rpg's where evil rewards you money, which you already have plenty of while good rewards you with a unique item or bonus
in games where evil actually has a tangible benefit, like say a good deal of management or strategy simulators, you'll see a significantly larger portion of the players willing to perform those evil actions
The best way to play Mass Effect is to choose your dialouge as quickly as you can based off your made up bias's Shepard has.
EG my Shepard was horny as fuck and I basically agreed with every (attractive) female character on everything but hated anyone who tried to assert authority over me (fuck you Illusive Man).
I also did every single "paragon/renegade cutscene interupt" just to keep things fresh. Hugged Tali AND threw that guy out the window.
Well I'm not an evil person (I think) and I try to just do what I do in real life.
>>339368520
>leasure.
>Good
>Best ending, usually best powers, get cool allies
>Evil
>Usually get a shit ending, mediocre powers and all the cool characters leave
Very few games make being a dick rewarding.
>>339366938
>>339367172
They need to cut morality points out completely
no more +100 good guy points or +100 edgelord points
you make your choices and see what happens, game doesn't tell you whether what you did was good, bad or somewhere in between (outside of character reactions/dialogue of course).
especially being able to know which options are good or bad before selecting like mass effects bright blue/red paragon/renegade choices.
While i'm not a fan of how some of my choices affected my game in Witcher 3 I liked the way you could unintentionally fuck shit up by picking certain choices.
>>339368954
>AND threw that guy out the window.
Everyone threw that guy out the window. I'm not sure they planned for anyone to not to, I didn't do it the first time around and it's just the saddest fucking anticlimax, he just shrugs and leaves.
>>339366452
>>339366452
>help someone
branching dialog, rewards, exp
>kill someone
loot them for a little gold and level 1 meme clothes
I wonder.
>>339368874
an NWN2 module that's pretty darn good about portraying intelligent evil is (surprise surprise) the Path of Evil module which is essentially about playing an upstart evil overlord.
Plenty of evil options around but the difference lies in just how much benefit you get from them. Like say you can help a typical evil chancellor to gain control over a town for cash, then when you yourself gain a bit more power and influence come back and flat out tell him he works for you now because you know every single one of his dirty little secrets.
Doing this actually gives you several benefits
Most people who play video games nowadays are just dumb dudebros who don't know how to roleplay.
>>339368615
This is precisely what happens. Why else would they be that way?
>>339369040
or if you keep good guy points, also keep separate reputation points for various factions so you can be an evil fuck but if you're nothing but helpful towards certain folks and never let them know how evil you are, they love you
>>339368952
>you'll see a significantly larger portion of the players willing to perform those evil actions
I tussle more with morality when playing Advanced Wars than I do with most games that have morality systems. I really do not like losing units. Although it's not accounted for, Days of Ruin puts you in situations where you're not just drawing on a countries pool of able bodied males, but everything you can muster in fighting for a flickering bit of hope.
>>339369256
>Why else would they be that way?
Some people are born rotten, did you grow up sheltered or something. Do you ever go outside and meet real people?
Some people are just assholes and there's nothing else to it. Trying to understand them is naive and whatever they say is a fucking excuse for their destructive behaviour.
>>339369256
>>339368496
Fuck off Rousseau
>>339369228
That doesn't really fit the argument for evil choices. In my experience, it's the dudebros who're more likely to think short term and kill someone cause it's the simplest solution then deal with more involved quest lines for ideal outcomes like someone who'll be playing that game for a few a few dozen hours in 10+ hours chunks like I assume we would.
I dare you to show a better evil route.
>>339369325
I like how casual games like say, the grand strategy genre, can be about their evil
sure you can try to build yourself a democratic state where everyone is happy and you try to be as friendly as possible
or you can invade all the weak, rich states, exploit natives like nothing else and forcefully reeducate anyone opposing your rule and come out significantly ahead of mr nice guy
>>339368298
>>339368374
This is where the big wrinkle in getting an evil character to work exists. Since every video game starts you off with humble beginnings, your "evil" choices are always going to be that of a thug and you'll never have the chance to reap the benefits of being the big evil overlord. You becoming the evil boss is the end of the game, you don't get to do anything after that.
No evil person of note in the real world got to where they were by initial evil means. Any he did practice were behind the scenes, the sort of subtle shit you won't be doing much of in a video game. Hitler won his election fair and square.
A thug can be evil all day, but he'll always be a thug. Nobody likes a thug. A thug will never see a trillion dollar opportunity unless it's GTA.
A dictator comes to power by rallying the people behind a "good" cause, only once he becomes the overlord does he start his evil shit.
You can sort of see a glimmer of the path of true evil in the Elder Scrolls games. When you gain the favor of a person or city or a king or whatever in Oblivion or Skyrim, they let you get away with shit. Once you have this position of power, you can steal something or kill someone in the middle of the day. When the guard approaches you, you just tell him "whatever, I'm the Jarl of Whatever, fuck off". You greased the right palms and now you have the power to do things that, even if people are pissed at you, they can't easily do something about it.
>>339368518
All living creatures are naturally pragmatic and risk-averse. They seek out the path of least resistance and greatest reward. That comes from not starting shit, making everyone happy by doing doing things that piss off the least amount of people.
Many people are also short-sighted, easily led by emotion and have to make choices on the spot, so often their actions will have short-term benefits for themselves without thinking of the long-term consequences that may eventually fuck them over.
>>339366452
Games usually rewards being good. Not too often a game rewards you for being evil.
Say what you want about GTA4 but that game did moral choices right.
>>339366452
I just play in a way that's the most fun or the most beneficial to my character, which is almost the "good" choice, being bad usually cuts you off from rewards and better loot.
>>339369367
No one is born rotten. The cause is bad upbringing.
>>339367801
I think this is the main reason. Regardless of my choices throughout many RPGs, I will still get filthy rich and have all the same skills and items I would choosing a moral route.. If developers made evil game routes reward players with a high amount of instantaneous wealth, it would be much harder to choose between being an evil or good character.
For instance, if a quest requires you to intimidate an NPC for 100 gold to return to the quest-giver and while intimidating him you find out he has 1500 gold in his safe, but will only drop the key upon death. That way, you would make a 1400 gold profit, and that would allow you to buy something that makes your character stronger, whether its a new weapon, armor, or consumable.
Playing on highest difficult setting might help with this, because items are required to be used or you die, unlike an easy more where you can just sell health potions because you're overpowered as fuck. Devs should also make items waaay more expensive and critical to gameplay, in order to keep the characters wealth constantly fluctuating around a level where money is used more frugally.
Being a dick in games often leads to a shit ending.
Also despite being a selfish asshat you usually get more loot by being a nice guy.
There arent any games where being selfish or "bad" is actually worth it.
>>339366452
I find it hard to choices u wouldn't make in life.
>>339369640
I'll give it that. Whoever you chose to kill or let live actually played out differently.
Because
(a) The good options tend to be harder, while evil options are convenient
(b) I genuinely get caught up in the world, and if the game is good and characters likable then I'll be sad when they're sad, happy when they are, etc
>>339369745
Most sociopaths are born that way. They physically lack the ability to empathize towards others.
They often punish you when you choose "wrong" and reward you when you do the right thing. I don't intentionally take hits in combat to make it interesting and challenging so why would I be an edgelord in story just because?
Besides, I choose the good option because it resonates within me. Why kill someone if I can save them? Not that I have the strength or will to choose right and follow through in real life.
>>339366452
Because people are basically good, I think it's an evolutionary thing we developed due to being social animals
>>339370023
>>339369745
>No one is born rotten.
Some people with perfectly fine upbringings are still quite taken with torturing animals and abusing siblings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDVaiwzU8yc&list=WL&index=80
A little tumor in the wrong spot can make someone behind according to some definition of evil.
Because the deads haunt me
>>339368298
But that's the reality of most people that do "evil" things
very few evil acts are done for the sake of being evil, there are other benefits to them and they disregard the consequences
>people are essentially good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSsPfbup0ac
>>339370035
Explain bullying.
>>339366452
When I got KOTOR when I was 12 I immediately played through as a dark side character, because the dark side had all the best force powers
I replayed the game as a light side guy but it was nowhere near as fun
>>339370245
>new york
>'people'
>>339370104
Not him, and I'm guessing this is bait, but yeah its pretty much an established psychological disorder. Google it yourself if you want a peer reviewed journal
You can't turn back if you go evil.
I do good for most of the game and then return to kill and loot everyone if I can be arsed.
>>339370035
*Cucks are basically good
Fixed that for you
>>339366452
Because to me it's escapism, I want to explore another world, not torture the toys inside of it.
>>339368518
I believe that pretty much everybody believes that their actions are good and just. Maybe there are a few that really are just evil for shits and gigs, but we didn't get where we are as a species by being blatant misanthropes. Being good, or at least believing you are being good, is hard wired into us by evolution.
>>339370390
epic meme
>>339369813
>Devs should also make items waaay more expensive and critical to gameplay, in order to keep the characters wealth constantly fluctuating around a level where money is used more frugally.
I like this. Older Fallout's money systems gave items a greater sense of value and being in a tight spot in underrail has made me consider amoral actions carefully.
But still, there needs to be more. There must be more serious divergence for evil and good to be different and paths worth pursuing. Say ratting out on a town you're passing through harboring fugitives escaping from an occupying army gets you a sack of gold and an escort towards the overarching objective while siding with the towns people has you evacuating people and ushering them into a forest. Where you've won their gratitude, but are seriously side tracked from your goal. Remove the good and evil labels from the above and you've got something special.
Good and evil must got beyond rewards.
>>339369745
And people like this ladies and gentlemen is why our prison sentences get lower and lower and criminals get acquitted more frequently.
Some people need to be locked up forever because theyre just bad apples and nothing but themselves caused them to be that way.
A game that did it mostly right was KoToR 1 and 2, where being good or evil had consequences, not every character respected your intentions, and some even conform to your demeanor. Still some unecessary "asshole" choices, but things felt unbiased in the long-run
>>339366452
>Game has moral system
>Good morals have much better consequences than bad ones
I'm the kind of faggot who feels bad when random GTA npcs are killed
I tend to play 100% moralfag an think about doing an asshole playthrough later, but I end up not replaying shit
>>339366452
Most video games don't do "playing the bad guy" very well because they're fucking awful when it comes to design, story, plot, etc. There's usually no benefit for taking the bad route and it usually only makes things more difficult to progress.
>>339366617
First bost best bost, underrated post, etc.
>>339370543
I wanna marry Kreia!
>>339370315
KotOR/Mass Effect are better evil playthroughs mainly because every single character is an insufferable shit and being evil is the best way to fuck everyone over.
>>339370023
But we aren't talking about sociopaths, we're talking about bad people, there is a very big difference
Someone can only be bad/evil/whatever if they also have the capacity and opportunity to be good, it works the other way too, both good and evil can only truly be called such when they have made an informed choice, virtue never tested is no virtue at all and the same goes for being a dick
If a game wants to do morality, they need to blur the line between good and evil. Put the player in tough situations where there might not even be a right answer. That's true morality. The real world is never so black and white, and games would be infinitely more interesting if they reflected that.
it's not fun being a dick when the game tells you can do it
It's way funnier to hear NPCs complaining because you keep throwing shit at them in Half-Life 2
>>339370595
When playing as a kid I didn't feel this way, but killing randoms in GTA5 kind of got to me. Don't get me wrong, if there were police behind me, traffic in front of me, and pedestrians on a side walk, those pedestrians were dead...but just killing someone without being prompted mad me a little sad about the needlessness of their death.
>>339370872
>The real world is never so black and white
Until it is.
>>339370304
Insecurity, fear, bad upbringing, entitlement, a desire to feel powerful
I never said evil people don't exist, the fact is that most people are good or at least on the lighter side of neutral
>>339370390
If anyone deliberately chooses to hurt other for no personal gain then they are mentally damaged, physical damage, emotional damage, their heads are not right
>tfw moralfag in real life
>tfw called cops on weed smoking neighbor and he got evicted (apartments)
Just follow the rules. You don't get to choose which aren't important enough to follow.
>>339370498
Should I bother with Underrail, I've put like 15 minutes into it and I can't tell if it's gonna be worth more
good route first
evil route second playthrough
>>339366617
Because I'm not one at all IRL and it's fun to play and experiment in video games as someone or something you'd never do or act like IRL
>>339371087
>moralfag
You're a lawcuck, not a moralfag.
>>339370991
>>339370035
>people are basically good
Holy shit, you don't live in reality. Ever checked how people live in places like Cuba, North Korea, or how many people are murdered every year in the world and so on?
>>339369040
>I liked the way you could unintentionally fuck shit up by picking certain choices.
That is an objectively bad game design idea.
It's one thing to be surprised by the story. It's another for it to take a fat steamy dump on your choices.
>>339370991
I can think of several ways to have handled this that didn't involve jacking your own father off.
>>339371087
Rules and morals aren't the same thing. There are many rules that are immoral as fuck and many moral acts that are against the rules.
>>339369552
>Playing Stellaris
>Enslaving alien races so they won't rebel and to produce more resources
>Purging anyone who doesn't follow my way of life, even if it's my own race
When you're seeing things in a huge scale, it's hard to remember you're enacting 1984 on entire planets so they'll follow your way of thinking more.
>>339371156
>>339371087
Quentin is that you? Diamond Dogs?
Having a morality system in games can be wacky sometimes, and Fallout New Vegas is infamous for this
The most obvious morality flaw in Fallout New Vegas is that you can kill Powder Gangers and get good karma, but suddenly if you decide to steal the contents of the now-forever-abandoned-with-no-repopulation-sidequest-prison that the powder gangers reside in, you get bad karma.
WHAT THE FUCK
Either way, it's always great to go with a moral extreme, because doing something neutral will often ruin your opportunity for other moral choices, and if you fuck up greatly on that, you will be forced to go to an extreme. Plus, exclusive content for moral extremes!
>>339366617
>Why do some people who play video games choose to be an edgelords?
Because I work retail and I have to be an overly nice and polite moral faggot all day, sometimes I just want to come home and shoot pretend people who are annoying
>>339371087
You did a good thing, potheads should be euthanized for their own good
>>339371186
They probably think they're being righteous even as they take the other's life. The power of bullshit is actually scary, and adrenaline can make you do crazy shit.
>>339371087
I pride myself on being a good person and you make me sick you fucking faggot
Everyone chooses which rules are important enough to follow, we must all come to our own ethical conclusions in life and if a person's personal decisions are not in danger of harming the health, property or future of another person then you don't get to make that decision for them
You are a bad person because you force your own beliefs upon others and exert control to the detriment of others for no reason but your own ego
>>339371113
The very first quest will be rough, but muscling through it was one of the best gaming decisions I've made. I had an absolute blast.
Take this image, don't read it to avoid spoilers, but you'll want to refer to it if you want to make friends with the drill dudes. You'll know what I mean.
>>339371217
I don't disagree with you, but what are a few examples with immoral rules?
Shut up Akagi
>>339371212
As long as you're not upset by the idea of someone being upset at you or not getting absolutely every single thing in a playthrough, it's fine.
Subjectively bad at most.
If people are good, why do they get off at the suffering of others?
>first playthrough 'good'
>second playthough 'evil'
>every plathrough after that some goofy mix of the two
same for stealth games. First run as stealthy as possible, second as fucked up and loud as possible, and from there I feel free to fly through the game killing and sneaking when most convenient.
>>339371214
>>339371169
>not giving your poor father a dadjob
Your poor fathers deserve better offspring than you.
>>339371403
>this much fucking delusion
They aren't my rules faggot, I don't make them. The country you chose to live in, the apartments you signed a lease for, the job you got hired for - they made them.
Get cucked, your post excites me.
>>339371403
Weed smoking was against the law. Anon did the right thing and you're a bad person for defending a miscreant.
>>339370498
I agree. While wealth would play a big role in a players decision if the games currency had a higher value placed on it, outcomes past rewards would make the big difference.
I think to add to your idea, there just needs to be more content around a certain event. A good decision will take you on a wild goose chase, giving you minuscule rewards, but building rapport with NPCs to the point where a good decision makes a lasting impact on the game world. I find a lot of the time when I make a good or bad decision, it barely affects how NPCs perceive me past the point of initial insults and maybe fewer dialogue options.
I think also earlier mentioned in this thread is there needs to be more ambiguity towards a moral decision. A lot of the time, you can either choose good or bad without having to deduce what is actually occurring in a situation. The harder it is to figure out if a decision is bad or good will encourage the player to actually think about their actions as opposed to quickly making a decision because the dialogue basically says what each decision does.
>>339371391
The fact someone does evil acts thinking they're good doesn't make their acts good. Nobody thinks exploding yourself to kill other people is a good deed but some tards think this will make them get tons of virgins to fuck in the afterlife.
>>339371156
This
>>339371186
If you tested every single person in those countries and the world the massive majority would be good people, if that wasn't true we would never have developed past tribal societies, a very very very small percentage of people choose to do bad things it's just unfortunate that a tiny percentage of 7 billion is still a fuckton
>>339371434
No singles policy.
>>339371260
In a lot of (Especially newer) RPGS the problem I run into is that every option I have besides the neutral obvious winner option(s) are blatantly retarded.
>>339371403
Anally annihilated drug addict detected.
>>339371586
I would assume that the idiots blowing themselves up are doing it because they honestly believe it is the will of an all powerful, morally right god. They're doing it because they honestly believe it is a good thing to do. Does this make it actually good? As far as I see it, no. But the only thing that matters to that bomber is whether HE sees it as good or not.
>>339371613
are card abilities spells in magic or are you retarded
>>339371747
I played it as an interrupt. Your spell fizzled.
>>339371609
If you allowed people to commit a crime telling they could get away with it, with total secrecy of this test, you would be surprised. People have free will.
>>339366938
>cardboard copy
It's carbon copy
>>339371087
You can do this for evil reasons too, I did call the cops on sone faggots I didn't like before, no paying fines or anything since they hod it well, but at least it scared them.
>>339366938
I always play with the ''the ends justify the means'' mindset, which leads to interesting choices and results.
>>339371823
Look I'm not going to bash you because hearthstone is kind of a shit game, but you're an idiot.
>>339366452
because humans like other animals are good in nature
Shut up, Akagi
>>339371434
Depending on your morality laws for:
Euthanasia
Abortions
Contraception
Custody law
Any lack or industry regulation
>>339371976
I'm going to escalate the situation with name calling and say it is you that is the idiot and likely fan of sodomy.
>>339372001
>all of these EXTREMELY obscure things
>not a girl so half of them don't matter to me
>would never break a law so bad that I'd need to be euthanized
I get your point but you're kind of cherry picking, and the cherries aren't even ripe.
>>339366452
I can't think of a single game with an alignment system I didn't hate.
>>339371434
High wealth tax laws
>>339371534
>>339371543
The problem with you people is that you think that the law is the same thing as morality, they are different things, the law is loosely based on generic morality but it's main purpose is to provide structure and order to a society, if a man is smoking weed on the street around children and harming people then yeah, fuck that guy but if a man is at home alone and he smokes weed then how does that harm anyone, how does that infringe upon anyone else's rights and safeties, the law gives us rules to live by but for a lot of non-essential and non-harmful things they should simply act as guidelines, you're as bad as slumlords or corrupt business men who do everything by the technicalities of the book, the law is not the be all and end all of ethics
But it's nice when your personal prejudices line up with the law isn't it, have fun not thinking for yourselves
>>339366938
>he latter also contributes to people doing 100% good and 100% evil playthroughs
that is not because "normies" are "unenligthened moralfags" who don't get your fedora lifestyle
It is because most popular garbage like fallout mass effect and dragon age have garbage, bottom off the barrel binary moral systems where there are no middle roads so there's no reason to play variations.
In addition the game telegraphs and makes it very obvious which choises are good or bad and the gray area of morality is considered too complicated for the generic pleb.
I play games like that with 100% good as well
Shit like metro last light I played 100 good until that commie squatter betrayed me so I made it my duty to kill every single person in his base and in the end I let him live
>>339372126
Voluntary euthanasia, dumbass. The right to take your own life via doctor assisted suicide. As cancer, this applies directly to you
>>339372091
Sodomy is pretty awesome though
>>339371586
Their acts may still be evil but if someone performs an evil act while truly believing that they are doing good then they are in no way evil
This is why manslaughter is different to murder, intention is as important as the act
>>339372148
Look you can call me whatever the fuck you want, moral or lawful, point is smoking weed is against the law you fucking loser. Have fun with your fine + eviction.
HWT is a grey area, and I wouldn't even say it has to do with being lawful or moral, just how a country operates.
>>339371823
Super not how it works, your spell just goes on the stack, resolves, does nothing and then his ability resolves
>>339372126
Is this guy 18 or completely retarded?
>>339372091
Reminder that things like handjobs and blowjobs are considered sodomy.
>>339371983
Animals aren't good, they're amoral.
>>339372126
Not that guy, but it is incredibly hypocritical of you to suggest the other guy is cherrypicking his moral standpoints when you yourself just dismissed abortions, custody law and contraception because of the moral judgement: "This has nothing to do with me because I am not female"
It isn't a logical judgement because you would be hypothetically involved, except you have made a blanket exception to this by assumption that any issue involving a member of the opposite sex (or perhaps for you its more about a personal right of someone that supersedes your own) has some moral priority over your own judgement.
That's not right or wrong, but it is a clear moral judgement you have made. A decision to recant yourself from the argument/issue is still a decision.
>>339372209
>leave off every single detail needed to know this
>lel ur stupid :d kill urself
>>339371832
I'm not surprised, the allure of freedom the temptation of the forbidden and the chance to do something you would never otherwise do while being told it's totally fine is not a chance most would pass up
People in cities where order disappears riot and loot for a while and then they settle down when it loses it's exciting appeal
>>339366452
Because games tend to shaft you with rewards if you go full darth edge lord.
Fucking baldur's gate. If you're evil, you get:
>literally get railroaded into the worst companions
>no quest rewards in some cases
>the evil choices don't even make sense half the time, 'do this thing for reward' or 'kill kitten for no reason'
"Evil" paths usually end up robbing you of content because oop killed all the quest givers tehe
>>339372350
He revealed his card and I reserve my time to respond. This is duels of the planeswalkers rules.
When I was younger and the craze of karma/morality came into games I really favored the side of good. Just didn't have a taste for evil.
As the years have gone by and my life hasturned into a cynical shamble of depression and NEETness, I really am not bothered anymore.
I'm usually playing the opposite now and feelpretty good about it.
>>339370245
It's fucking New York. They see people passed out on the street all the time. Half the time it's some junkie faking it and looking for a handout, the other half is just another one of these stupid fucking "social experiments" that they can see from a mile away.
>>339371087
Yeah that's Lawful neutral.
If you called them in because their pot addiction was hurting something or someone then maybe that'd be lawful good.
Lawful neutral are usually pretty awful people to hang around though, always complaining about something.
Neutral good best alignment.
>>339369517
You get to be evil, your character has an actual motivation (destroying everything) and sees it through to the end. Characters can call you out all they want but it doesn't matter, because you get to step all over them. And then you actually win.
THIS is how you do an evil path.
>>339372476
My entire point is that I'm not the law maker, just a law follower. Because I have not had to deal with any of the above issues, it's kind of hard to me to even begin to truly assess if it's moral or not.
I have an opinion on all of them, but opinions are not what cement lawslol.
If you want my hypothetical for the situation I'd disallow self-assisted suicide unless there was a very secure way to make sure the person was 100% sure and wouldn't change their mind, and I'm fine with abortion/contraception etc, I also think the % of men that are not allowed custody just because they have a dick is also corrupt, but that isn't really a law I would enforce.
Lots of people saying evil paths are crap because you end up killing off the NPCs. Why not just have an evil path that doesn't involve murder? There's plenty of non-murder evil shit we can do.
>>339369745
>No one is born rotten. The cause is bad upbringing.
You're fucking stupid.
Because the incentives for being evil are usually unrewarding.
>I'll feed the poor and save the galaxy.
>I'm not feeding the poor but I'll save the galaxy.
>Fuck the poor I'll piss in their last grains but then I'm going to save the galaxy all the same.
>>339366452
Because in 9 out of 10 games roleplaying as the bad guys amounts to being a middle school bully
>>339372791
Pretty sure they wouldn't be changing their mind after they're dead.
In all seriousness, I think it should be allowed for degenerative/painful diseases that have no cure.
>>339372653
Except they fell for the last one.
>>339372342
Did you fail to understand anything I said or do you just choke down as much authoritarian cock as you can every morning
My argument is that everything that is illegal is not immoral
Your arguement is
>No but it's illegal shut up
As far as taxation goes it's not so much how countries operate as it is how the world works, rich people pay politicians or rather they donate money to their campaigns and shit and in return the politicians treat them very well, just because it's how it works doesn't mean that it's what's right
I said it as an insult before but now I actually mean it, you need to learn to think for yourself
>>339370595
>tfw you accidentally blow up a civilian in inFamous while trying to do a Hero run
>>339366452
Because they're blue-pilled cucks
>>339372853
It's not like there's anything wrong with murder in an evil playthrough. There just has to be an actual reason for it, rather than being completely nonsensical "lol i stab u" bullshit for no reason.
>>339372487
>I don't know what google is and am incapable of looking up terms of things on my own.
Your alignment is just dumbass.
>play a game as a good guy
>need info from guy
>gives quest in exchange for info
>quests consists of boring fetch quests and sucking the quest gives cock for an extra 5gold as a bonus
>play as bad guy
>break into his house
>find a book with the info you need
>kill his kids for fun
>take the 500gold he has in his safe
>>339372943
Because he looked well dressed.
>>339366452
Playing evil usually gives you worse rewards and denies you further quests.
I've yet to play a game that did evil well.
>all these "people are '''''naturally''''' good" posts
>"Communism can't happen because people are naturally selfish and competitive!"
Make up your minds.
>>339372880
At least back in the day it was
>I'll save the galaxy
>But only so that I can keep pissing in their grains
>>339373031
I just want you to understand how much of an enormous tool you sound like right now. Like I'm self-aware that I'm not the life of the party but you are literally making me cringe at what you're typing. This is literally some reddit tier shit.
I never even said everything that is legal is moral, and I even said in my last post that I agree that some of the lawful things you posted were not only immoral but corrupt.
>>339366452
you tend to miss out on a lot of quests and opportunities when you go evil.
>>339373121
So they're biased. How good of them.
>tfw no game where I can pretend to be a good, heroic guy until the people love me, make me their king and then turn into an evil overlord once I'm in a position of absolute power
I just want a game that lets me play as a manipulative, deceiving piece of shit, why is evil always "go eat an orphan and his little kitten"?
>>339373108
You're forgetting the precious family heirloom he had hidden away that he gives you after seeing you're on a quest to save the kingdom.
>>339373063
There are two types of euthanasia that are highly debated/talked about as moral/immoral, there is LITERALLY no way to know which you were talking about.
You do know that shitposting is against the rules, right anon :^)?
>>339372557
Are you just talking shit? Is this some form of weirdly subtle trolling? If so I guess you got me
If not, you're an idiot, that is not how magic works, you can't counter an ability with a counterspell unless it specifically says otherwise, 'interrupt' is just the old word for 'instant' and it just means the card can be played at any time, if the spell doesn't work in the situation then it still does nothing (unless it has Split Second but that's a whole different can of worms and still wouldn't have worked because his ability was already on the stack)
>>339372342
So what would be your stance if hypothetically weed were legal in your country?
>>339372692
>Not chaotic neutral
>Not looking after yourself and those you care about first and foremost
>Not achieving the best possible result through any means necessary
>Not understanding that the right thing isn't always the best thing
It's like you want to be a loser
>>339373385
That I would absolutely hate it and try to find an apartment complex that has a rule against it, same how I am with cig smoke.
>>339373318
>uses :^)
>tells me i'm shit posting
Back to the depths of >>>/s4s/ with you
>>339372421
Some animals exibit empathy, but it's evolved, not inherent in life
>>339372859
I believe in the concept of Tabula Rasa, everybody is born blank and everything that is us is created through life experience
>>339373454
>completely ignores my point
>g-go back to s4s!
>>339372487
Nobody in either side of either debate has used euthanasia as a term for the death penalty
>>339367057
This was how I played Infamous except reverse. Start out good then about halfway through I become a degenerate dickbag.
>>339373440
I simply have a wider scope anon.
You want the best for yourself and those you "care" about.
I simply care about everyone. Hell I can be selfish as hell, but in the end its only to further feed my goals of helping the majority.
But honestly as long as whatever you're doing doesn't hurt others I could care less. Your ilk is the road I walk and want to maintain, not the potholes that plague it.
>>339366452
to be fair most games are built for moral fags. the games are so stilted that the evil route usually only has drawbacks and instead you get some cash instead of respect/discounts/fame/loot/money/power/companions. I mean that the reason I choose good. except fable 1 and 2..... ahhh good times killing your sister for a sword worthy of the gods.
