>The best game ever made has the worst dungeon ever made
explain this
>>339199516
Which dungeon was that?
Well I don't really count deku tree as a serious dungeon. It's more of a tutorial. Also Mario 64 is best game
>>339199516
Well that's because it's not the best game ever made.
Hell, the mere existence of Ocarina of Time 3DS makes it impossible for Ocarina of Time N64 to be the best game ever made
>>339199516
Which dungeon are you referring to anon. Let me guess, Water Temple because you're a little bitch who can't solve simple puzzles. Water Temple is actually one of the best temples, it's fucking awesome, you're just a basic bitch.
>>339199831
Deku Tree is goat though you fucking cunt. I mean all the dungeons are great but so is Deku Tree, there's fuck all wrong with it whatsoever
>Mario 64
How does it feel to be objectively wrong?
>>339199516
>Posts thread complaining about worst dungeon in series
>Doesn't name which dungeon they are referring to
Once a faggot, always a faggot, right OP?
>>339199974
>it's not the best game ever made.
See this: >>339200104
By the most objective standard there is, it is the best video game ever made.
Yeah, Fire Temple was shit. Doesn't help that the hammer is never needed again.
>tfw Majoras Mask is actually the superior game
Water temple being a bad dungeon is the most retarded meme ever.
I personally like it more than the Shadow and Fire temple.
>>339200104
So many inherently flawed games on that list. Excluding possibly Tetris, none of those are even close to perfect. I think more lists should explain what they define "best" as.
>>339200342
Water Temple is bad because of how much of a pain in the ass it is to equip and unequip the boots
>>339200307
Objectively false
>>339200347
>I think more lists should explain what they define "best" as.
It's just what they consider the best. On an individual level that's pretty subjective yes, but when there are more people who consider OoT the best game of all time than for any other game, then that becomes a pretty objective measure. It's also got the highest score on Metacritic of all time. Pretty objective if you ask me.
>>339200578
It's barely any trouble at all. It takes like one second.
>>339200253
>mfw I always used it at the ganon fight on his tail
>Best game ever made
Are you some kind of casual 14 year old girl or something? Fuck off retard. You don't know shit.
>>339200873
It's like the only point in the game to use the Giant Knife. Even if you have the breakable version, it's the end of the game.>inb4 deku stick
>>339200307
>4 dungeons in Majora vs 12 dungeons in OOT
no
>>339201569
>12
>>339201641
>3 YL dungeons
>5 AL dungeons
>Gerudo City
>Kakariko Village Well
>Ice cave
>Ganons Castle
>>339200730
one second repeated 50 fucking times
>>339202325
Then cry more about the menu taking a second to rotate, because that's repeated a few hundred times.
>>339202252
If you're going to count random arbitrary shit, then you'd also have to count MM Skulltula houses, the Pirate's Fortress, MM's graveyard, Ikana Castle, and the Moon dungeons.
>>339203026
Those don't count.
>>339202501
You don't need to keep opening the fucking menu every other second anywhere else.
>>339204092
And you only have to do it a few times in the water temple. At best, your reasoning is tedious and hypocritical.
>>339204153
>tedious
Like the fucking temple
>>339199516
How can it be the best game ever made if it has a glaring flaw that everyone agrees is a shit flaw?
>>339200206
All it did was make the jump to 3D like Mario did. They paved a path, but Nintendo always does that, so it's not as big a deal anymore.
>>339204241
Only if you're retarded and going in circles.
>>339200206
>>339200104
>45 people say it's a good game, therefore, it is the best
lol okay
>>339203252
Then neither does your random bullshit, OoT has eight dungeons, end of story.
>>339200104
>No Undertale
Illegitimate list:^)
>>339204636
Still twice than majoras mask.
>>339200873
>He didn't get biggarons sword
>implying OoT has a single bad dungeon
>>339199974
>Hell, the mere existence of Ocarina of Time 3DS makes it impossible for Ocarina of Time N64 to be the best game ever made
You'd have a point if the remake was better.
Get gud. No really, get fucking good. I'm fucking tired of faggots complaining that so and so was hard back then. Much better than the shit we get nowadays. Be fucking grateful these games are still around for you to even experience. Miyamoto and his crew didn't spend three years making this so some baby millennial in 2016 could cry that it was too hard for them. Fucking pathetic generation I tell you fucking what.
>Implying water temple was a bad dungeon
it requires like 5 minutes of thought if you aren't completely braindead.
>>339206218
>more is always better
Well memed
>>339199516
the great bay temple was worse.
I didn't actually have trouble with it myself, but it was still a supreme clusterfuck where the map doesn't help, and I ran out of time during the fucking boss fight so I basically had to do it twice
At what point did you realize that Ocarina of Time was one big dungeon done right?
the only reason the water temple is hard is because of that one key in the central column which is revealed when a block rises from water-level.
>>339204636
>Ganon's Castle
Most certainly a dungeon
>MM Skultula houses
If you wanna count them sure, but it's pretty weak by dungeon standards since it's a couple of rooms that you play hide and seek in.
>Pirate's Fortress
Yeah sure
>MM's graveyard
And let's count OoT's graveyard as a dungeon while we're at it why don't we?
>Ikana Castle
Sure.
>Moon dungeons
>s
Oh sod off. That's a single dungeon if you're gonna count it as one and you know it.
Even then it's OoT: 12 compared to MM: 10 and that's including your stupid graveyard.
>>339206391
>Getting the easy mode weapon
>Not waiting to get it until after beating ganon
>>339206981
Yep, this.
>>339206951
Never cause your headcanon doesn't exist. Now Zelda being Majora, that would have been cool.
>>339207074
I hated how badly that sword broke the game.
The game's easy enough. Even on 3 heart challenge it's not that bad save for maybe a few annoying parts.
>>339206981
Last time I did it, the key that eluded me was the one in the side column where you meet Ruto.
I think the real reason why this dungeon confuses dumb people and can be really frustrating is because there's two instances of needing two small keys to get through a section, where both keys come from other offshoots in the dungeon. Those two points are to get the Longshot and to get the Boss Key.
If you only find the one key and you try to go through a locked door, you'll solve a puzzle and end up at another fucking locked door. Then you have to go back through the puzzle you just solved, and then possibly cycle the water levels in the entire dungeon, looking for what you missed, and then cycling water levels again to get bakc where you were.
I'm willing to bet that this is the reason that every single retard who got stuck as a kid thinks they stumbled across some magical way to permanently fuck up the dungeon when it's not physically possible. They probably couldn't find the second key or didn't realize they'd have to backtrack, so they assumed that they couldn't finish it.
>>339206981
Not if you played Master Quest.
I've had to restart the game twice now because I died there.
Once inside that room because I couldn't find the way out in time, and the second time I died inside the room with three Stalfos. Whose idea was it to have the hardest fight in the game, against enemies that can take between three and six hearts at a time, inside a cramped pool?
>>339207484
The Master Quest makes the water temple piss easy. I went in expecting them to have made an already annoying temple harder, but then they pussy out and make it one of the simplest things I ever played.
>>339207565
Try doing it without a Zora Tunic, and no fairies.
>>339207674
I will admit, I never used so many fairy bottles until Master Quest. The Zora Tunic is doable, too. You don't spend enough time underwater for it to affect you anyway.
Am I the only one who really hated ice cavern?
>ice physics
>backtrekking every time to refill your bottle with blue flame
>iron boots have nothing to do with dungeon theme
>freezard breath distance
>>339207868
Probably. It was really short.
>>339207868
The blue flame is the only problem if you don't have more than 2 bottles.
>>339206486
>the remake isn't better
Well memed but I don't see how that's possible.
Water Temple > any dungeon in Wind Waker
>>339201158
>>339208084
By all objective standards, yes it is. Sorry this rustles you.
>>339207984
I dont think i ever got the 4th bottle. I remember people saying it was from the poe vendor in the castle, like you had to get a certain amount of points on your card or something,
>>339207484
For stalfos, just crouch behind a shield in a corner and spam stab.
>>339206870
Majoras mask dungeons are shit, The only good dungeon is the last one. The dungeon items are shit too. Bow, arrow, arrow, arrow.
>>339207747
Inside that central tower basement, you have to look for the key and unless you know exactly where it is, you're dead. Even in regular OoT, it takes about 45 seconds to rush in, kill the clams, and make it to air. You need at least six hearts to have 48 seconds of stamina, meaning either you use a fairy, or you collect an extra heart along the way and do Forest and Fire Temples first.
>>339208558
You have to kill all the Poes in Hyrule Field and bring their souls back to the vendor.
>>339208719
>end game OoT strats
I'd love for a more challenging OoT game someday.
>>339208718
>tfw Great Bay is your favorite MM dungeon
In all fairness, Zora Link is one of my favorite things about MM so I wholeheartedly admit to some bias there.
>>339199516
>Worst dungeon ever made
>Not from a Megaten game
>>339208949
I feel like Great Bay would have worked wonders in Twilight Princess due to the increased hardware power. I felt like the N64 didn't give it enough justice for its scale.
>>339208701
That doesn't work in OoT3D. They can hit you over your shield, and a jump attack will go through it.
To cheese a Stalfos you basically have only two options.Spin attack them, and trade the hit, because Link has power armor in OoT3D.Stay behind, and wait for them to jump attack and use the new sword arm swing to hit them in their blindspot mid-air.
>>339200104
Goldeneye was really fun when it was released but fucking nobody is going to boot that shit up to play nowadays. 15 FPS, blurry graphics and basic as fuck AI don't hold up.
>>339208949
MM dungeons are all very solid.
It's true OoT easily wins on that department though. MM has Stone Tower, but that's not enough, especially when OoT has Forest, Spirit, the Well, Shadow, Jabu Jabu and Ganon's Tower.
>>339209329
It's kind of hard to deny the game's influence, though. It proved that FPSs that weren't Doom clones had serious commercial viability on consoles. Certainly didn't hurt that the N64 had 4-player split screen capacity but Goldeneye's success is a major catalyst in why we even see FPSs on consoles. Now if that's a good legacy or a bad one, that's up to one's discretion. But that shit was a game changer.
>>339208949
It's one of my favorites in the series, it's a really good water dungeon. And for some reason I like the tease of having the Boss Key in the first room.
Snowhead's my favorite dungeon personally.
>>339208454
this
WW has the worst, short and boring dungeons
>>339209817
Can I agree to that. Earth Temple might be the most insulting dungeon in the entire series.
>>339200689
argumentum ad populum
>>339199516
I mean yeah Jabu-Jabu sucked but not nearly as much as the Ages variant
Jabu Jabu's Belly in Oracle of Ages is far worse than the Water Temple
>>339199516
But the Water Temple and Ice Mansion were in Twilight Princess.
>>339211148
Lakebed's underrated IMO but I can sort of see why someone wouldn't like it. You can fuck off with shitting on Snowpeak, though.
Water Temple > Lakebed > Wind Waker > Great Bay
>>339209979
>pushing those mirrors for like 10 minutes
as fun as watching paint dry
>>339211915
Would've been okay if it was actually a puzzle. Instead it's literally just mirrors on straight line tracks with indents at the end. Do your chores to power up the Master Sword. Fucking garbage.
>>339200104
>only 45 people in a world of 3 billion think OoT is best game ever
There's literally a Bloodborne thread with 500+ posts who all say that's the best game ever.
>>339201569
>more is better
>not quality
I'll take less dungeons for side quests any day.
Most dungeons are all shit in OoT.
Every dungeon I get to in OoT, I sigh and go through another chore.
Side quests in MM I actually have fun and want to do.
>>339212080
STT is the same way though and people sing praise for it.
>>339199516
I was gonna ask you which dungeon you were referring to but it doesn't matter. The worst Zelda dungeon is Great Bay Temple.
>>339212520
What are you talking about? Stone Tower had tons more variety. Swimming, flying, upside down hookshots and stuff, flippy block puzzle, and a bunch of other novel shit. The worst thing in it was like two rooms that made you play Elegy of Emptiness. That's a massive difference from the utter garbage that was Earth Temple.
At least Stone Tower actually used the previous dungeon items for fuck's sake. And it also had good side objectives, instead of literally one room that the game drops you off next to after you get the Mirror Shield containing the treasure chart. That's why Wind Waker was fucking terrible about dungeons, it didn't even trust players to remember where previously unreachable stuff was.
>>339212450
With a mentality like that then yes, MM would be the better game. Most Zeldas don't have sidequests as good as MM's though and most people like Zelda dungeons.
>>339199516
hard and complicated doesn't make it bad
>>339212897
>water templs
>Hard and complicated
>>339212897
>OoT dungeon
>hard and complicated
>being old enough to post here
You lost me.
The more you think about zelda games the more you realise there's such great potential for the games to be even better if they refined their design.
>what if the combat was actually challenging and utilised the moves introduced in TP
>what if dungeons could be performed out of order and how would that impact the world
>optional items players get like fire arrows and so on actually be useful for certain dungeons, prioritising world exploring when stuck & strats
> what I you could return to dungeons with different items that reveal more about the dungeon
Instead we get a more and more dummed down linear game each year exploting some gimmick Nintendo has
>>339212269
There were 3 Billion people when OoT came out.
Bloodborne has the advantage of being in a world with 6 Billion.
Also, you have to take into account the proportion of people that were gamers when OoT came out. The industry was still looked down on as geek-only pasttime. Now, it's the world's most important entertainment industry.
500 people to Bloodborne in a civilized world where there are 9 year-olds with iPhones is paltry, compared to a game coming out when newspapers were still the standard of information transit.
>>339213174
Pretty much this. I love the fundamental idea of the series but I'd be remiss if I said I wasn't more enthralled by them in my youth. That said, I still think they're good games but as you say, they could be much better.
>>339212450
>Talk to person X while wearing that mask you'll never put on again
>Wait around for some arbitrary amount of time to talk to the same person again
>Wait around some more
>Deliver some a letter some other extraneous shit
>Keep waiting
>Finally finish the chore of slowing relaying messages between two people
>Have to do it all in one sitting to keep the quest from resetting
>Technically it resets anyway, other than the useless reward you received
What amazing gameplay, why wont Nintendo make more masterpieces like MM?
>>339213483
>The industry was still looked down on as geek-only pasttime. Now, it's the world's most important entertainment industry.
>mfw
EH
>>339213591
Yeah well thats like your opinion man.
I like MM the best cuz of these boring sidequests you say.
Even years later and playing it again occasionally I'd rather do the side quests than playing OoT and all it's shit dungeons.
Don't get me wrong, I like OoT too, but the side quests are my favorite thing in all of the entire Zelda series, yet it was never really touched upon again.
>>339199516
pic unrelated?
I think you're talking about Chrono Trigger and the horrible DS dungeon
