Which Souls game has done the covenants system best?
>>339137356
I'm liking 3's mostly because you can swap anytime anywhere with no recourse
>>339137356
Dark Souls 2
Of course Dark Souls
With Sin and shit
>>339137493
This. Pretty fucking convenient.
>>339137356
Dark Souls 2
Dark Souls 3 has no covenants, they're all pvp based, it's shit
Dark souls' covenants are the best, followed by 2's, 3's are convenient but shit.
>>339137565
PvP, Co-op and one that covers both. Mostly locational shit, which is garbage. It's not much different to the rest, but they all fucking suck. Covenants are wasted potential.
Best covenant per game
>Gravelords
>Bell Keepers
>Moundmakers
Honorable Mentions
>Rat King
>Company of Champions
>Every Sun covenant
Gravelords and Champions should come back in some form in 3.
Dark Souls 1 had the best variety, and they all could be done in single player if you wanted. I'm very partial to DS2's Champions, though.
>>339137856
Sunbros. Gets medals. For invading.
>>339137356
DaS2
>>339137868
>no covenant of champions
It's like you hate fun
>>339138269
>Honorable Mentions
>>Company of Champions
I think 1
3's are few, but even though they're conceptually concise, they don't work for half the playerbase
Salt and Sanctuary
Demons Souls
>>339137356
Bloodborne of course
>>339137356
In theory? DaS. Actually? DaS2 even though I hate it.
>>339140008
no eye orbs fuck off
DaS2, DaS1 was pretty good at that department too though.
DaS3 falls incredibly short, and BB was just pure garbage, the game barely had covenants.
>>339140070
But still most of them worked.
>>339137530
>>339137493
With less emphasize on loyalty n shit like that.
I don't like it.
I liked 2 because it felt like thete was more weight to your choice or you could just be a rat asshole and that was cool too.
Three would win out if Blues and Darkmoons fucking worked.
>>339138086
Variety? I disagree a bit with this, due to there being bad guy invader, good guy invader, Gravelord (requires NG+), boss killers, shortcut girl, and everything else being useless.
Dark Souls 2
The covenants themselves were better, gave better rewards.
They had reasons to be in in them.
1 suffered from covenant abandonment penalty and really, bad connections gimping PvP / summoning.
3's covenant rewards were beyond terrible besides Obscuring Ring.
No +3 rewards, no genuine benefit like Blood Dregs / Titanite, etc.
2.
3's covenants and PvP are worse than vanilla 2 which is absolutely pathetic.
I think it would have been nice if each covenant had some special ability or some other benefit to make them feel different beyond just phantom color and some items. Dragon covenant was the best in my opinion just because it had the most unique offering compared to the others.
Going to say Dark 2.
Didn't like that the invader/police faction required dueling for its orbs, but at least they were purchasable at NG+
Bellbros were better than Farron and Aldrich, Rats were fun, I like that the dragonbros were a lot more active in 2, Pilgrims was an enjoyable PvE covenant, and Champions for those who want to fist it and have a harder challenge.
It was also nice that each covenant ring gave an effect as well.
>can finally offer all items at once
>covenants stop at +2
>Yorshka won't even mind if you have 99 human dregs
>Obscuring Ring is the only decent reward, everything else is bad or literally useless (looking at you, Wolf Ring)
>Can't purchase spells in NG++, forced to farm
>>339138153
Yeah, and?
>>339137356
No one, it's always shit.
DaS1
>full orbs
>only half the covs were good or worked
>blues and reds at their best
>some spells required you to stay in that cov
>forest hunters were great
2
>Territorial covs at their best (bellbros and rats were great)
>no full orbs for literally no reason
>changed Way of White to little blues, making it actually useful
>SM threw a spanner in the works, though
3
>all invaders nerfed, severely hampering covenants
>no "fun" covenants (gravelords, rats, etc)
>territory covs areas aren't really made for it compared to previous games
>stop and swap system is good
>autosummons completely fucked
I honestly never thought 2 would be the best at anything, but here we are. Covenants went from being tacked on, to integrated in a fun way, then tacked on again
I prefer how dark souls 3's covenants encourage convenience, but dark souls 2 had the best ideas
Dark Souls 3 should have a covenant of the angelic faith in lothric castle, grand archives and the garden, that works like the rat covenant, and aldrich's faithful should also work in cathedral of the deep.
Farron Watchers should also work in undead settlement/catacombs/smouldering lake
In addition, there should be a covenant like the champions covenant, and a proper dragon covenant with arena like duels which promotes this idea of "the true dragon" like the hawkwood fight.
I feel that was their original intention, but they ran out of time.
None of them are especially good at handling the system overall and all of them have at least one covenant which is pure shit. DS3 probably has the most effective covenant system but also has bizarre boners like the red invasion covenant not actually getting anything useful for invading, there being TWO autosummoned helper covenants when hardly anybody uses the autosummon anyway, and the dueling covenant from the last two games mysteriously vanishing.
I'd like to see a Souls game where your covenant choice is a little more like god choice in Dungeon Crawl, it's a serious character building decision that unlocks additional abilities as you progress through the game. The player is discouraged from switching between them and may have to obey some basic rules to not piss their god off/break their covenant. I've always felt like covenants were inspired by the religion systems in Nethack based games and I'd like to see that taken to its logical conclusion.
>leave sunbros as is
>merge the two cops together, and let cops be summoned to other blue worlds if they're invaded as well as to babby blue worlds
>red are fine
>purples are in a strange place. There's no reason to summon a "friendly" one, and there's not much point invading as one. Could honestly be scrapped without missing anything
>Move Farron Watchdogs to the Carthus Catacombs and add some fun shit to them like the Rats had
>Change Anor Londo to more like Dragon Aerie/pvp focus and leave the Faithful there. Let faithful be summoned in to help other faithful like blues
>>339137356
DS3 has no dragon covenant, so not that one.
>>339137356
I want to fuck that.
>>339145202
I don't, a covenant shouldn't be a hat I can switch out at will with no consequence.
>>339146164
Her name is Dragonsis, anon.
The only reason 2 wasn't the best was the lack of infinite use orbs.
Having to cheat engine them in after using a stack of 99 was bullshit.
>>339146221
>Her
Never mind
This game's Dragon form was such a letdown, but it's still better than DaS2's.
>>339146292
It's okay anon, there are Dragonbros too. They have bigger horns.
Dark Souls 2. This isn't even up for debate.
I think all of the games fucked covenant up in some way or another.
DaS
>Covenants not working
>Pointless covenants
DaS2
>Unbalanced covenants
>No Full orbs
>Arenas fucked pvp
DaS3
>Shit rewards
>Only MM as a "creative" covenant
>MM is based entirely on roleplay, players have no reason to be madman, in the end MM is basically another red.
I think DaS2 may have the best covenant system, but they are all bad.
>They all have no reason to keep playing after getting to max rank, other the "fun".
This could be improved by allowing you to buy stuff with your covenant item.
>>339137356
For all the hate, I'd say 3. 2's covenants were all over the place and the addition of Mound Makers is just too good.
Bloodborne
Why it's even a question?
>>339146306
Buff dragonsis best dragonsis.
>>339146252
You could buy infinite blue orbs in NG+ and beyond.
But yeah there should've been a red orb that was really hard to obtain. Make it so you have to gain X points, and points are gained by killing hosts, phantoms, sunbros and blues, so the skilled invader is rewarded for hunting down the phantoms too, instead of just 1-shotting the host and leaving. Or just have successful invasions reward a cracked red orb, so skilled players who consistently win will take longer to run out.
>>339140070
Yeah that sucked but it wasn't an issue in NG+
>>339145183
>no full orbs for literally no reason
I'm guessing it's because you could invade people even when they're hollowed.
>>339145915
>>purples are in a strange place. There's no reason to summon a "friendly" one, and there's not much point invading as one. Could honestly be scrapped without missing anything
Allow people to summon purples without being embered.
>>339142064
Darkmoon ring is pretty good
And darkmoon blade is a prettier version of lightning bladeWhy the fuck is lightning blade not called sunlight blade?
>>339146906
Good joke
>>339146306
>>339147032
>>339146906
Bloodborne covenants were awful
>>339148373
The Untrue White Ring should disguise your purple sign as a white one, and there should be no way to disguise your sign as a golden one, so sunbros are always safe summons and whites could be wildcards.
>>339146306
I completely disagree, at least Ds2's was physically imposing.
>>339148502
>>339148591
You just jelly, pc "master race"
>>339148807
I don't particularly get it.
I'm a big fan of Bloodborne, but if there's one thing even the fanbase agree is shit, it's the covenants and multiplayer in general.
>>339148807
Okay
>>339148862
>I'm a big fan of Bloodborne
Nice try
>>339148561
>>339148806
I would have liked that set if had explicitly been a "Dragon armor" set, but no, it's the actual transformation, which is still retarded.
I like the idea of a dragon transformation that gives some defense-points, but it needs to actually look like a dragon. Every game has found a way to fuck dragonform up.
>Dark Souls 1: Goofy ass dragon, but the unarmed moveset was unique
>Dark Souls 2: Weird ass dragon cosplayer
>Dark Souls 3: Skinny holocaust dragon, looks totally autistic
Why couldn't they just make a sort of ashen dragon version of the Dks1 dragonform, make it a bit more intimidating, give it a viable and badass unarmed moveset and call it a day?
Post more dragonwaifu
>>339148928
I miss old thiccbut prefer 3's head
>>339148373
Considering how much embers, if that was the case, the only reason people would summon purples was if they're afraid of invasions.
I think some good reason would be if the host also got something if the purple were to win, by killing some red or blue phantom (no white, cause it would allow for a bad play from the host)
>>339137493
Im torn on it, because it allows you to change up your playstyle on the fly, but then it also feels like youre less dedicated to these things. They're called covenants, Id expect more devotion toward them.
on the other hand, they never did covenants very well, there's always been at least one that is just completely absolete and useless cause it just doesnt work.
Allowing people to switch covenant without consequences and getting rid of the sins system also means less potential targets for the dorkmoon covenant.
>>339149179
The only fucking problem with DS1's dragon form is that it's neck was too fucking long. I honestly don't see why they need to start over from scratch with each Souls game, just keep the dragon form and fix it accordingly.
>>339149592
>>339149410
Dragonsis is thicc.
>>339137356
DaS1. DaSII's is objectively worse, and DaSIII somehow managed a way to be twice as bad as that.
>>339146306
Just once, I'd like the games to do it right. A dragon ascendant that is actually memorable. No rubber suit appearance, no skeleton lizard, no dragon armor set.
>>339150182
This was what DaS1's dragon was supposed to look like. But deadlines...
>>339138269
Covenant of champion is the opposite of fun though. It could've been done much better than "grind invaders and forget multiplayers".
Covenant of champion should be something that you can only pick at the beginning of the game and if you leave it you can't join it back until NG. You should get rewards for beating bosses, not invaders. You should be able to get summoned and invade (because why not?) but not summon.
It should've been a real hard mode, not that tedious grindy shit.
>>339150406
To be fair, replacing the character's skeleton on a whim like that to make the legs digitigrade could fuck up the character model if the transformation or death bugged out
But I guess if bethesda could do it, from can
>>339150406
Yeah deadlines, Fromsoft's go to excuse.
>>339150630
>There could be bugs
Worst excuse I've ever seen.
>>339146306
I think the dragon form would be fine if the head wasn't so awkwardly small.
>>339146052
I kinda like the idea that there was a covenant, but the place got fucked up by something and it went extinct.
>>339150406
The problem is that From would have to make new animation for everything, to much effort for such a small optional thing.
>>339148904
nice edit
>>339149929
>>339149410
>>339148928
>>339147032
>>339137356
DS2 wins by the virtue of all the others being total shit. Miyazaki is good at designing deep miminmalistic games, but he is shit at designing mechanics.
DS3 should have had a Londor/Hollow Covenant. You'd automatically get summonned to help hollowed players in any situation (so including them they invade someone else). You could also place your sign but only other hollowed players could see it (while invading as well).
The Dark Hand would scale with hollowing. Leveling the covenant would greatly increase the power of the Dark Hand, making it block more, absorb more and be faster. You could reverse use it on a host to heal them, at the cost of your own health.
Best online is
DeS > DaS3 > DaS2 > DaS1
DeS:
+ Both PvP and co-op items available early.
+ No covenant bullshit to get in the way.
+ Both PvP and co-op are encouraged for all people through the scarcity of resurrection items. Online is a proper extension to single player.
- Balance and twinking issues.
DaS1:
+ Blue Eye Orb, PvP sin and dark Anor Londo invasions
+ Path of the Dragon for duels
- Gravelords don't work outside NG+
- Princess Guards just exist to lock down co-op miracles despite there already being a better co-op covenant.
- Darkwraiths can't invade unless human, despite the MAIN REASON they invade being getting their humanity back.
- Even worse balance and twinking problems than DeS, even after patches.
- PvP covenants that matter being hidden in late game and easily missable, encouraging only guide using faggots.
- No reason to ever go human in solo play as your HP won't increase.
DaS2:
+ Mechanical improvements to old DaS1 covenants (like arena), removal of useless covenants like Gravelord or Princess Guards.
+ Best PvP balance. Removal of non-scaling upgrade paths and spells that previously allowed you to forgo offensive stats altogether.
+ Most build variety, almost everything including boss weapons is infusable and enchantable. Not shit elemental resistance armor.
+ PvP accessible early again.
+ Human form matters again. Semi-hollow people can be invaded (though less likely).
- Soul Memory
- No infinite Red or Blue Eye orbs.
- No real rewards for invasions apart from grindable ones.
DaS3:
+ Early accessible PvP.
+ PvP items don't need to be spammed nor take ring slots.
+ PvP is lucrative as success is instantly rewarded with Embers and Ember form like DeS again.
+ Different Red Eye Orb invaders have different matchmaking preferences.
+ Twink prevention system that actually works.
+ Password matchmaking for co-op with friends.
+ Changes to Dried Finger
- No Blue Eye Orb
- Darkmoons and Sentinels outright don't function.
- No Dragon covenant.
Das 2
>>339157554
>+ Twink prevention system that actually wor
Yeah no. Just try making a fresh character, rush to get the free 5 cracked red eye orbs and use them. I guarantee you'll get 5/5 twinks/cheaters/ganksquads.
>>339146478
>arenas fucked pvp
W-what? Arenas is one of the best thing about 2 pvp. There's was still plenty of fight club, invasions and world pvp when the player base was active
>>339137356
If they all worked, 3 by far is the best.
But since half of them are nearly broken, 1 wins.
>>339157841
Works much better than DaS1 or DaS2. DaS1 had no anti-twink system, meaning you'd end up against max chaos / dark pyromancy twinks in Undead Burg, while the twinks themselves couldn't be invaded since they killed the area boss in their own world.
DaS2 had soul memory which only served to permanently punish worse players who lost their souls or didn't use them properly / weren't aware of how the matchmaking system worked.
DaS3 counts both weapon level and soul level, meaning you can't permanently fuck your character by misspending souls, while also preventing the worst type of twinking. On the other hand non-scaling weapons are an issue, though not to extent that was the case with DaS1.
>>339157554
>+ Twink prevention system that actually works.
Lol, tell that to my sl30 with +2/+1 errythang. I'm mining salt with my washing pole as we speak.
>>339158303
Yeah I agree that it's the least bad. Imo if we couldn't give items to other players it would be much less of a problem. Or at least limit it to item they technically have access to.
Tbh at this point I'd be willing to have a multiplayer sub for centralised servers that do proper cheat detection. I refuse to believe that all the players in full havel with dragonslayer greataxe that can fastroll in the undead settlement at like lvl 18 are legit.
What's so great about being a dragon gameplay wise?
>>339146252
Lack of orbs and Soul Memory.
If it had whole orbs and SL matchmaking it would have had the best multiplayer by far.
>>339158665
If you're already doing a naked build it's good. However the only dragonstone that's not complete garbage is the normal torso.
>>339158665
You can breathe fire and do a roar that staggers enemies and boosts your damage for a short time. It also looks kinda cool.
>>339150420
>company of champions
>mobs gain new moves and are generally more aggressive
>can be invaded at anytime
>no summons
>bosses and enemies have significantly more hp
>drop more souls to make it worthwhile
>higher droprate on items as well, eg: concords
>scales all the way to ng+7, so ng+7 coc would be something like ng+12 or the eqv
would be my main covenant.
>No dragon covenant
Demon's Souls
Nothing
>>339157554
>+ Password matchmaking for co-op with friends.
Yeah nah it just makes it even easier for people to resummon friends while ganking
>>339160576
It can make for some pretty fun times as an invader though.
>Invade a world
>2 players with simialr names, most likely buddies
>kill the phantom
>host runs away, resummon him
>rinse and repeat untill I'm out of estus
>kill the host
>>339137356
Not having a proper Dragon Covenant really sucks. I miss the fuck out of dueling for scales.
>>339160730
>Invade Settlement
>Four faggots wearing untrue dark ring and the same armor
>All named "DICKSTACK"
>Another red invades with a washing pole
>Gets R1 spammed to death by Dark Swords
>Another red comes in
>Fight the fuckers to the last hair of health
>One of them tries to sip and gets jumped on by those hatches niggas
>It was the host
>>339159007
>CoC lets you access NG+14
That would be the shit.
>>339137356
Bloodborne no redundant coventants just one for PvP and one for coop
