How do you feel about RTS being replaced by MMOBA?
Shut up. Let us mourn our dead genre.
>>339092757
Not good. People don't like 1v1 though, they can't handle the sauce.
>>339092949
I only like playing RTS bro-op vs AI
ok I guess
>>339093150
That can be fun. Total War co op campaigns are fun as hell.
>>339092757
RTS was never replaced by MOBA
RTS died when companies like Sierra went under, leaving only shitty publishers and shitty developers to continue the genre onwards. Which is why we have nothing but nostalgia-bait 'hurr durr RTS golden age' shovelware, low-effort warhammer garbage, and 'we want the casuals who think actives are bad' Eugene 'strategy' games.
It's all just fucking scams now trying to bilk the money out of the last few fans of the genre left. Even Digital Mindsoft hopped on the wagon and started putting unlock cancer in their multiplayer-centric games.
The genre was doomed from the start. Even in the supposed 'golden age' there weren't that many people into it because the games aren't easy or intuitive to play; Even the ones that go out of their way to pull in shitters, like Wargame or Act of Aggression.
>>339092757
RTS's did it to themselves. The genre should have focused more on long term strategy, slower paced action and large scale resource management but instead it devolved into twitch inputs and micromanagement; essentially birthing the MOBA.
As a fan of older RTS style games, I now get my fix through historical strategy games and milsims like Nobunaga's Ambition and Wargame.
>>339092757
rts died when APM and micromania became a thing...
face it: starcraft and blizzard killed rts a long time ago
>>339093960
>RTS died in 1998
>Because of a game that makes you interact more with your units
It's okay anon, /wgg/ is dead, let it go. No one cares about boring ass Wargame.
>>339093902
That was never really the focus of RTS. That was always turn based games or 4x games.
All things being equal the faster player will win in most games. Even games like total war that are about unit comp and positioning and morale management will come down to reflexes.
At the top level everyone will know the optimal thing to do in a situation and it will generally come down to who does it first.
>>339092757
That's real life right?
>>339093762
Fuckin A.
I only wish I could find someone autistic enough to time sink enough hours into one with.
>>339094169
That's something I forgot to mention; the focus on the competitive nature of the genre also helped create the MOBA. I'd argue that the RTS genre was subsequently stripped of any need for a decent story, campaign structure or AI.
>>339092757
I had no clue that Russia was this /bootsonground/ in Syria, I thought it was all FSB spooks and air strikes.
>>339094349
I have all the autism anon
>>339094349
It's some of the most fun I've ever had gaming. So many ways to do it. Start far apart and conquer towards each other, start close and move out together etc etc.
>>339094157
i kinda hate wargame, that shit is suprisingly microintensive... dont be fooled by anybody who tells you otherwise
>>339092757
Apathy, both genres are complete trash.
>>339093902
>Waaah game is bad because people that invested more time and effort are better than me!
>Wargame fans in a nutshell
The fact that you think Wargame has more 'strategy' than pretty much any other RTS, let alone gookclick, is just the funniest shit.
What killed the RTS genre was that there were too many casuals that needed to be spoonfed by making games that slow everything down and remove any and all depth and unit-control beyond 'move. stop. hold fire' so lazy faggots raised on participation medals could feel like they were 'good' strategy games too.
>>339094349
I'd do it but I ain't got cash so unless you're autistic enough to put with with the pirated versions then I dunno
>>339092757
don't mind me, best RTS of the year coming through
>>339094598
It's really not. People just make things hard on themselves because it's babby's first RTS. It's nowhere remotely near stuff like Men of War, or even casual shit like Company of Heroes. Wargame is about as slow and 'hands off' as you get without becoming hearts of iron.
>>339094641
>That one faggot who keeps screaming casual and Wargame hoping it will save the genre people like him killed
not a fan
>>339094402
For many the competition was the primary draw. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with that. Campaigns are fun but the ai can never really be very challenging. There's also no point in developing complex factions when you can just turtle until steamrolling in every AI game. I understand some people enjoy the whole turtling thing but I got bored of it eventually.
I'm surprised more Stronghold style game didn't take off.
>>339094803
>tfw i like Wargame
it panders to my inner armchair general
let me enjoy my autism in peace
>>339094641
Note that I made a differentiation between strategy and long term strategy, at no point did I claim that MOBAs or faster paced RTS' require less strategy than anything else.
>>339094723
Nice try.
>>339094803
>Genre killed by people that actually play RTS games and take the time to git gud instead of crying for slower pacing, no active abilities, barely any unit control, and utterly basic and bland units that all look and behave the same with as little demand for critical thinking skills as possible.
Okay.
>>339094783
turning on/off radar AA, counter-artillery, buildinghopping infantry when bombers arrive, on/off missles on soviet tanks, reversing tanks
its micro, you might not consider it too much but the genre is supposedly strategy... i dont want to babysit Ivan Ivanovich in his T34, cause he doesnt turn the frontal armor of his tank towards the enemy
>>339095000
>slower pacing, no active abilities, barely any unit control, and utterly basic and bland units that all look and behave the same with as little demand for critical thinking skills as possible.
wow, it's like a war simulator
"WAAAHHHH GENERAL PETRAEUS IRAQ ISN"T LIKE MY VIDEO GAMES WAAAAAHHHHH"
>>339092757
Give me more battlezone
>>339094573
>tfw got caught subletting and had to move back home with my stuff in storage
I had just brought Attila too and was fucking shit up as the Picts.
>>339094585
I resort to puppet states and trying to get them to join battles but it just isnt the same.
>>339095535
Why can't you sublet? I do whenever I go away
>>339095656
It's illegal in a lot of places. It's generally not considered an issue if you are not occupying the property while subletting.
As much as people bitch about Relic they are like the only people who's games keep a player base and I'm excited for dawn of war 3
>>339095279
>Game is so slow you are under almost no pressure.
>Pacing of a battle revolves entirely out of panic-buys
>90% of the 'unit control' boils down to putting your AA and artillery on control groups, then casually tapping a hotkey to make them immune from danger or to left click on a puff of smoke in the fog of war.
>The other 10% is literally just dragging a box and right clicking to avoid long-wind-up attacks or to mass push areas.
Watching high-level play in Wargame is a trip. I wont go out and say it's a bad game, but people that primarily lean on Wargame really shouldn't talk about the RTS genre as a whole, because Wargame is about as close to being the CoD of the genre as you can get, MAYBE pushed aside by company of heroes 2.
>>339095372
>Like a war simulator
Yeah, no. Try Graviteam tactics or Scourge of War if you want to try and pull that card, retard. No one that's played a diverse array of strategy games considers Wargame anything other than casual-bait.
>>339096006
literally git gud
>>339095917
In DoW's case it's because warhammer faggots will eat any pile of shit.
In Company of Heroes 2's case, it's because of the matchmaking system(One thing they did right was making lobbies a 'with friends' thing, instead of just an open thing like in Men of War.), the wehraboo pandering, and the extremely low barrier to entry.
>>339096006
>Graviteam
I gotta try this more. I love steel armor.
>mfw looking at a guide and they recommend reading an actual anti-tank tactics book
You guys seem so concerned with "muh Hardcores" that you let every RTS that comes out die. Enjoy StarCraft I guess.
this thread escalated fast
>>339092757
I only miss Command & Conquer... 4 was such a disappointment. A wound that Mobas can not heal.
>>339096237
It's pretty cool but the UI and controls are shit and the game itself is wonky and unintuitive as shit. Things often seem to happen for any and no reason, and units often don't respond in the way you asked them to, but as far as 'milsim' type RTS games, it's not half bad. It's a bit better than Combat Mission, IMO, but it suffers from a lot of the same problems.
For whatever reason, milsim RTS games are seemingly designed from the ground up to be really shitty and unintuitive both visually and in controls. The controls are always needlessly complicated to achieve really simple tasks. Something as simple as telling a unit to move, or to attack a target often becomes buried under a poorly-made UI with full-retard hotkeys, and the game mechanics are rarely made clear, or simply aren't technologically refined, so shit just goes haywire out of nowhere or never really responds at all.
>>339096508
Yeah you're right, Planetary Annihilation, Act of Aggression, and Grey Goo were real gems. Totally not nostalgia-baiting scams.
RTS went to shit because in their bid to increase their niche audience, they went the opposite direction from genres like flight sims and started appealing to the lowest denominators, not realizing that casuals don't give a shit about RTS because it's not intuitive to transition to from shit like FPS games or RPGs. All they ended up doing was alienating their core fanbase, and raking in some casuals at first, only to have their games die in a month from release.
>>339096935
>Grey Goo were real gems.
i know you're being sarcastic, but i will always be mad that grey goo sucked
consider the following: 3d graphics killed RTS
>>339096006
these are just motions, you do it from musclememory, without thinking... why does every rts need this shit? i know cause on the startegy level they are shallow as fuck, so everything includes this timewasters
i might be delusional but i would love to see a strategy game where every keystroke or mouseclick has an actual bit of thinking involved (im doing this because X...)
hexshits seem to do this kind of thing better...
also i would love to see an RTS trying something like: you can only issue 10 orders every half minute, make them count
>>339097586
>you can only issue 10 orders every half minute, make them count
I suck at RTS: the post
>>339097586
Graviteam does it. It works pretty well when the game itself wants to behave. Graviteam is how you do slow-paced shit right. It's slow, but unlike Wargame, you're actually DOING shit with your units. There's interaction. There's depth. You're doing more than just kicking back and watching a game play itself while throwing in a few token inputs.
>>339097806
true i suck at rts, but last time i checked they were not called gottaclickfastfastsupersanicstrategy, just because its real-time doesnt means its also fastpaced....
>>339098245
STAY BRONZE my friend
>>339097810
Is Mius front any better? Fucking operation star is confusing as fuck to play, doesn't even seem retreat is an option most of the time.
Feel like shouting trying just to get mortars and artillery to work.
>>339098362
what bronze?
>>339098245
The thing is, everything else being equal the faster guy will usually win. As far as strategy goes you can always just see what the best players are doing so the game gets figured out pretty quickly.
Moba didn't replace rts, rts died on its own volition
>>339098668
I haven't played Mius Front yet but supposedly one of it's major selling points is a much improved UI.
I miss the old days before youtube, before all of this overstrategizing bullshit competitivefag crap.
Most people just played RTS games as a hobby. Custom matches and scenerios were huge, and about as big as the multiplayer aspect of the game.
Each game was fun in that it wasn't a total curbstomp if you did 1 thing wrong. There werent any flame wars or 'salt'.
I understand it wasnt perfect. Most of us had slow internet and sometimes there was server downtime, and voice calls were practically noneexistant. But I guess that age is over now. RIP
I never cared for either genre, so it's business as usual
>>339099812
Those are some real rose-colored glasses you have about the RTS community in the past. If anything it was even more shit because most people were still young teenagers around that time.
>>339099812
Compstomps were like this, but competitive has always drawn competitive people. My first online rts was Starcraft though so maybe you're talking about a time before that.
>>339099046
thats why is said that most rts suck at the strategy part imho...
give randomly generated maps (even unbalanced ones), new playfield every time, apply your resources according to playfield and parameters, then adapt to the enemy on the fly, no more copying from pros...
>>339099812
i miss oldschool lan-partys...
less salt, more fun.
a bit of competition helps, but too much ruins everything. vidya games were played to have fun, not enlarge e-peen
