>we need ideas for the settlements in our post apocalypse game
>hmmm
>Oh I have an idea. The survivors built city around one of the bombs that ended the world
>BRILLIANT
>but here is the twist, the bomb hasn't activated yet and could explode at any second for all they know
BRAVO BETHESDA
>we need ideas for the story in our game guys
>>338918923
>we need ideas for the settlements in our post post apocalypse game
>Oh I have an idea, the survivors settled in a hotel
>Just a hotel, but it has a wooden dinosaur, Oh and 3 cabbage patches.
>PROMOTE THIS MAN
>They survived trading useless bomb scraps scavenged from an endless bomb factory just up the road.
>LITERARY AWARDS
>It was protected from all raiders and mutants and the Legion by only 2 snipers. The town itself is not fortified in any way and has multiple access points, and their sniper perch has a massive blind side. To wit, they were able to kidnap the sniper's wife from under his nose.
>WRITIIIIIIING!
>>338919485
You make a good point actually.
>>338919595
I should have mentioned the 200 years thing, but thanks.
>>338919485
>Obsidiots will defend this
>>338918923
Where does their food and water come from? I know that the town has some sort of water purifier, but there's no nearby body of water to even purify.
>>338918923
>we need ideas for our post apocalypse game
>oh i have an idea, let's make fallout 4
you can't make this shit up
>>338919739
on a scale from 1-10 exactly how stupid are you?
>the world is so fucked up, what can I do to fix this?
>Oh I know, I'll raise an army of savages to march across the country murdering, raping, enslaving people, and destroying any technology we come across
And people sided with him.
>>338919843
Any answer I could give you would be inherently biased.
>>338919859
>TECHNOLOGY AND SCIENCE IS EVIL WE SHOULD BE ROMANS
>UNLESS IT CAN SAVE ME FROM CANCER
>>338919859
>>338920086
Caesar hated politics not technology, politics is what destroyed the world. In a really messed up way siding with him or house makes far more sense than the NCR.
>>338920210
Mass genocide and enslavement isn't really a good alternative to politics.
>>338920086
> We should be Romans
> the civilization who, at the time they were the dominant empire, was on the forefront of technology in all forms
> but I hate technology!
>>338918923
>we need ideas
>lets just steal everything from previous games in the franchise
At least in Tactics the people living next to the live atomic were ghouls who worshiped it and knew how it worked.
As much as I don't like Bethesda's writing, that's not actually a bad idea.
The whole Atom/Rads worship thing is one of the better things they've done.
>>338918923
The Church of the Children of Atom finds this offensive.
Serious question here: It's established that vegas was rebuilt and civilized when house woke up. The rest of the mojave was pacified and had infrastructure like the aqueducts laid in place by the NCR.
Both of these things happen less than 10 years before the game starts, meaning over 190 years after the bombs fell.
Considering the Mojave was
1) basically unscathed by bombs or radiation
2) Basically free of super mutants and ghouls
3) Covered in somewhat fertile, farmable land and a MASSIVE source of clean water
4) With a BIG, UNTUOCHED city in near pristine condition smack in the middle of it:
Why the fuck is it almost entirely uncivilized for 190 fucking years? No infrastructure, just random ass settlements that had to trade for their water and a pile of feral squatters dominating the perfectly preserved city? Staying like this until House and the NCR came along and finally made people get off their ass?
I mean, at least the Capital Wasteland had the excuse of being
1) devastated by bombs and heavily irradiated
2) spawning endless amounts of super mutants
3) with no fertile land or clean water sources
And it was only a little worse off in terms of progress than the pristine Mojave area.
>Lets add a giant jet engine gate that opens when you come towards it
>But this only happens once, but it must happen.
Reminder that the /v/ favorite Obsidian quest of "Come Fly with Me" is literally a worse version of the FO2 questline of the Hubologists.
>>338920769
Literally no one likes that quest, though.
>>338920834
Like hell you fags don't. It's one of the most mentioned quests when people talk about how good quests are in NV and I fucking hate it.
>>338920769
A lot of quests were tedious and stupid in NV.
But thats no different from most rpgs
>>338920769
Do you mean the design? It's a back and forth fetch quest, it's pretty bad.
>>338920769
New Vegas was built off the bones of Van Buren so it's not surprising they lifted something straight from 2. Who needs creativity when you can recycle old unused material, or in the case of Bethesda not so old, used material.
>>338921050
I mean the story, which is almost a straight adaptation of the hubologist quests, except the F2 team had the good sense to NOT tell the player that they made it to magical radiation paradise and then came back. They left it ambiguous.
>>338921095
But it's already used material, from F2.And I like NV, to be honest Van Buren had some cool ideas but overall sounds way worse than what we got.
>>338919485
It was set up as a farming and trading community along a major trade route, and as such only has a few dozen people.
Considering the war was five generations before any of them were born, they aren't survivors. They're immigrants and refugees who built a small town together.
>>338919485
>>338919636
Novac was barely more than the collection of houses behind it prior to the establishment of New Vegas. It's described by everyone who lives there as a tourist boom town and more than half of its residents are from the NCR. The scrap trade (which dealt with engine parts, not bombs) barely sustained the even smaller place prior to its establishment as a tourist trap and waystation. The only raiders and mutants in the area are the Vipers and some molerats, the former of which are far from the town and the latter of which are fucking molerats. If the frumentarii can infiltrate the Strip and plant a deep cover agent as an NCR officer, it stands to reason they could easily infiltrate Novac with the help of its defacto mayor.
House puts way too much trust in you imo.
Hes supposed to be intelligent and cynical. Why doesn't he give you a couple of body guards that will kill you if you try to fuck with him?
>>338919485
>>It was protected from all raiders and mutants and the Legion by only 2 snipers.
There's also an old lady with nothing to protect her but 4 dogs 200 yards away from Novac. And another 300 yards away from her is a NCR power installation.
It just means that the Legion hasn't gotten around to raiding those places. Or they scouted out the town and figured that there was no serious profligate behaviour going on there to bother, and that the two snipers could be dealt with later.
There really isn't anything the Legion would find objectionable at Novac, except for Boone. There is no drugs, no NCR presence except for two former soldiers. Novac is a settlement that they would want to take whole.
>>338921281
Anyone could easily infiltrate Novac. The entire area is open, you can walk up there and the snipers have at best 180° of vision.
>>338921281
Honestly the legion should have taken out novac instead of searchlight.
Fucking novac was a waste of time.
>>338921374
For the same reason the Brotherhood accepts you as a full fledged member after testing you with a couple of fetch quests and even joins forces with the NCR, RIGHT after Veronica has to abandon them because they're willing to go extinct before recruiting from the wastelanders or teaming up with other factions.
>>338921376
The game says as much, too. It's described as "a low-priority target" during its ending slides and its meagre defenses are completely overrun even by the token force Caesar sends there. Boone and Manny are meant to warn the town and harass scouts more than they are to defend anyone, and Ranger Station Charlie/Helios One protect the town's northern and southern borders. REPCONN was "safe" until recently, which is why it's such a problem that ghouls are leaking.
Why do people feel the need to bring up Bethesda's shitty writing?
It's like complaining that shit stinks. Everyone knows already, faggot.
>>338919485
Yes, and?
>>338921579
they wouldn't have been able to settle at cottonwood cove if they didn't take out searchlight.
>>338921445
>Anyone could easily infiltrate Novac.
Why would you? Novac isn't important. You'd be better off winning the battle elsewhere and then sending 20 good men to inform Novac that someone else is in charge.
>>338921374
Because you're discreet. He says that. He can't have a huge ass army go after the chip otherwise he won't get it.
>>338921376
>200 yards
>300 yards
You do realize the map isn't real world scale, right?
>>338921679
Obsididrones trying to feel better about their dying company.
Just let them laugh now. In a year or so they'll be crying.
>>338921679
Are you a bethesda fanboy that gets upset at threads like this anon?
You seem perturbed.
>>338920592
>Covered in somewhat fertile, farmable land
but its not. its a desert.
before house woke up the only people around were the khans really. everyone else lived far away from a fucking city in the middle of the desert with sand and sand and sand and sand and
I agree that its very strange that no one looted the city. But no one being around makes adequate sense. These kinds of areas were not densely populated, if at all, before modern times.
>>338921827
>Hi! I'm retarded and can't read! I'm going to make a post that broadcasts this fact!
>Yay!
>>338921779
>Why would you? Novac isn't important.
Raiders will attack anything. There was a nightkin standing on the town border for days killing cows nightly and no one did shit.
>>338921593
>couple of fetch quests
Yeah, neutralizing a ranger, tracking down their scouts, recovering the logs of dead paladins (one squad stuck in Boomer territory), recovering the parts to fix their failing life support system, then trekking up to the irradiated, mutant infested Black Mountain or wiping out a shop full of high-tech hardware-wielding crime family is a series of paltry tasks on par with fetching a hunter an increasing number of animal appendages.
>>338921802
>You do realize the map isn't real world scale, right?
That's some non-Euclidean shit right there.
>>338921593
The average wastelander could do fuck all for them, they were in need of people who can get shit done. Their bunkers can't sustain a huge population and they were in open conflict with the NCR without your help.
>>338921857
>but its not. its a desert.
Desert supports plant life, anon. And they literally do farm on it.
>These kinds of areas were not densely populated, if at all, before modern times
It was LITERALLY LAS VEGAS. And it did not get hit by bombs. Are yous seriously saying people wouldn't flock there?
>>338921917
NO IT WAS A CHUPACABRA WITH A BLUNDERBUSS THWT SHOT BULLETS OUT IF IT'S BACKPACK.
Fuck i hated that old fuck
>>338921915
o wow anon u sure showed him wats up
>>338920970
I don't think I've ever seen anyone on /v/ speak highly of CFWM. It's often mentioned in vidya PTSD and triggering threads.
>>338919859
WE WUZ ROMANS
>>338921374
>>338921796
yeah but the question is why you, a fucking schmuck courier who is no special person to anyone.
he entrusts you with his big fucking plans. if he didn't trust you then why send you up to his personal suite? who else gets that treatment? you're automatically bumped up to the level of high level dignitaries. whys he trying to cajole you? why not just say "Yeah hey kid sorry about getting shot in the head thats business. But that was an important delivery so here's 500 caps (wow!) I need it delivered now and you're finishing the job"
instead he puts you in the position to fuck him hard.
>>338922045
>Oh, fuck! I've been outed as a moron!
>Quick! I've got to shitpost in response!
>>338921935
the quest is literally three different fetch quests in a row. they make it seem like a real quest by putting the items in places that lead to other, completely unrelated quests.
>>338921984
>>338921935
All veronica was asking was that they considered the possibility of working together with Mojave factions and recruited talent from outside the Brotherhood. They refused to even try, willing to die for their dogma. Yes, the Courier is more capable than most. But he is still a wastelander. And they DID make an exception for him for no real reason.
>>338922131
Not even the same poster actually.
But dam anon u sure showed me wat was up
>>338922106
Cause you got up from the grave and tracked down benny.
You show promise and let's be real, house is pretty desperate at that point.
>>338920592
It's not remotely farmable. The sharecropper farms all required intense industry and greenhouse cultivation, and places like Westside and Freeside only have the shit they do thanks to the NCR's shitty pipelines. The settlements near Lake Mead usually got wiped out by mutants, and the land itself isn't viable for any significant settlement.
Furthermore, the Mojave is a fucking desert. Prior to Vegas and military bases, it had nothing of note besides some "tribal" natives and some mines. Which, lo and behold, is exactly what happened to it after the world went to shit and no one needed tourism or military bases.
>>338921917
>Raiders will attack anything.
The Legion isn't regular raiders. They follow orders. The raids are conducted for military reasons. A raid on Novac would have to have political impact. Is a smallshit little place. Raiding it wouldn't send a message like at Nipton.
>There was a nightkin standing on the town border for days killing cows nightly and no one did shit.
Not quite the same thing. There are no serious threats around that the townspeople couldn't handle.
>>338922198
The only reason Veronica wanted to recruit from outside the brotherhood was because she's a lesbo and that wouldn't be allowed in a faction that gets it's recruits from members having children.
The BoS NV branch was a fucking sausage fest.
>>338922319
>It's not remotely farmable.
EVERY FUCKING SETTLEMENT HAS FARMS.
If it's not farmable, WHAT THE FUCK DID THEY EAT FOR THE PAST 190 YEARS?
>>338922029
>Are yous seriously saying people wouldn't flock there?
How? Civilization is gone. Shits fucked. There aren't travel ads for LV. Most of north america lives at some tribal level and the precious few that have anything resembling an education learn it from crackpot fuckos that found a brochure on something so now they're an expert.
The precious PRECIOUS few (namely the enclave and to a lesser extent, the brotherhood of steel) receive robust educations that are comparable to old world schools. They may have heard of Las Vegas. MAYBE.
Now why the enclave hadn't shown up and jacked everything of value is a very good question.
But as far as why didn't tribals/raiders cross hundreds of miles of bare desert to find a city that may or may not have been nuked, which may or may not have jack shit in it, which they don't even have a map or guide to find..
It's a hell of a stretch.
>>338922309
Desperate yeah but he's been playing his hand of cards for two HUNDRED years. Suddenly when you show up he goes all in trusting you, a random guy that didn't die when he meant to.
>>338922389
>WHAT THE FUCK DID THEY EAT FOR THE PAST 190 YEARS?
Junk food according to Bethesdas mappers.
>>338922367
>The only reason Veronica wanted to recruit from outside the brotherhood
Changes nothing, anon.
>>338922394
>How? Civilization is gone. Shits fucked.
From around the Mojave? And it would have a large population there in the first place, that somehow turned into tribal squatters despite having a literally intact fucking city right there, and clean land and water nearby.
>>338922198
They refused to try because MacNamara believed they were on death's door after Helios One and Hardin is a hardline xenophobe isolationist. They open up to the courier because he/she literally saves them from dying in the soon-to-be-tomb that is their Hidden Valley Bunker, on top of assuming practically all of their field assignments. If you actually do make amends, Veronica does appreciate it and considers it, overall, a step in the right direction.
>>338918923
Still a more interesting place than anything FO3.
>>338922367
Saying her reasoning was her sexuality is way more shallow than bethesda wrote it, and homosexuality in video games is usually pretty fucking shallow.
They've been bunkered for a decade with hardly any if at all new members. She's been witnessing them dwindle for a DECADE
>>338922458
Didn't the chip just show up though, pretty sure he lost the chip before then.
The game does enter a power fantasy for the character though, but I mean aren't all games supposed to make you feel like more than an ordinary person.
>>338922389
>If it's not farmable, WHAT THE FUCK DID THEY EAT FOR THE PAST 190 YEARS?
iguana meat
squirrel on a stick
local desert fruits
legacy processed foods from pre-war
bighorner and brahmin steaks
>>338922389
A benevolent family has been feeding everyone with chip food from the sierra madre. That's also why stuff respawns in containers.
>>338922547
>They refused to try because MacNamara believed they were on death's door after Helios One and Hardin is a hardline xenophobe isolationist. They open up to the courier because he/she literally saves them from dying in the soon-to-be-tomb that is their Hidden Valley Bunker
You seriously don't see the contradiction? They were willing to give the courier a chance despite literally refusing to give anyone from the wasteland a chance beforehand. Keep in mind that when you meet them you're more likely than not a nobody waster, not "THE COURIER".
It really kind of shat all over Veronica's questline.
>>338922596
>I mean aren't all games supposed to make you feel like more than an ordinary person.
Yes but this was one of the things that people praised about NV compared to FO3.
While you were still the protagonist of the game, most characters were less likely to treat you like they do in every bethesda game as the second coming of Jesus the moment you meet them.
>>338922578
FO4*
>>338922389
There's a huge fucking difference between farming for yourself and farming for a burgeoning, stratified settlement or civilization. The Mojave does not naturally have that kind of land and the people there do not have the infrastructure to cultivate it. All the farms you see are tiny and self-sufficient save the big NCR ones or the ones enabled by NCR infrastructure like the Co-op.
>>338922198
This actually explains why she was so eager beaver for you to meet the brotherhood.
She didn't even remember the password and the guy was like "oh it's you"
>>338922682
They only give the courier a chance after he either earns an "in" with Veronica or they strap a bomb to him and order him to kill a highly trained NCR Ranger. Your reception is considerably colder if you take the latter route and only warms up after you begin working for them of your own accord.
>>338922682
they give the courier a chance because he has one of the passwords from their lost patrols.
>>338919859
Literally isis.
If the N on the Novac sign goes out like all the other letters do they have to start calling the town Ovac?
>>338922693
>the NCR and Legion are both so desperate to have the courier, a "nobody", on their side that they will even forgive the courier nuking them, you literally don't have to have achieved a damn thing in the game for this to happen
>almost every character in Fallout 3 expects the player character to do something in return for help and doesn't treat you like "Jesus" unless you've actually done worthy of praise
You're full of shit.
>>338923129
Lonesome Road is shit, I agree. I don't see how that has any bearing on the original system, however. Both sides only forgive you so you can fuck House up and shut you out as soon as your allegiance falters. They don't even give you any rewards; they just want to meet with you since you're obviously capable of harming House. Caesar even lists all the shit you've pulled and jokes about killing you on the spot. He only keeps you alive to maintain his technophobic façade and hopefully persuade the obviously capable courier into working for the Legion.
>>338919859
>>the world is so fucked up, what can I do to fix this?
>>Oh I know, I'll raise an army of savages to march across the country murdering, raping, enslaving people, and destroying any technology we come across
More like
>The world is full of savages and cannibals
>eventually the one with the most viciousness and intelligence beats them all into one entity
The type of person who would crucify a hundred tribes of Mad Max style savages and then absorb the survivors into his own army isn't going to be a nice guy who will get along with his neighbours.
If he was prone to your reasoning then he wouldn't have been able to make himself Caesar in the first place. Of course he's a vicious animal of a leader. He wouldn't be leader in the first place if he wasn't that way.
>>338922539
>that somehow turned into tribal squatters despite having a literally intact fucking city right there, and clean land and water nearby.
>clean land and water
land came with water
water came from NCR
but what happened to the original inhabitants of a major city is a good question. certainly many if not most died from starvation and exposure when commerce and logistics broke down along with society
>>338923129
>>the NCR and Legion are both so desperate to have the courier, a "nobody", on their side that they will even forgive the courier nuking them, you literally don't have to have achieved a damn thing in the game for this to happen
The world is full of corrupt or incompetent people. An outsider who produces results is usable.
>ALRIGHT, we Need a idea for a villain.
>the villain can have endless robots and a space station that could kill the Heros!
>...So?
>HE NEVER USES IT TO KILL THE HEROS
>BRILLIANT!
>>338923486
Borderlands 2?
>>338923376
The idea that in Fallout 3 everyone treats the player as "the second coming" is complete horseshit and you know it. Most characters openly mock the player character until they actually do something worthy of respect. I'm struggling to think of a single character that just loves the player on sight in Fallout 3. The best you get is some characters will extend you courtesy due to the fact you are your father's kid.
It's funny, in one thread you'll have people bitching that a big problem with Bethesda games is the NPCs never seem to acknowledge the great achievements of the player character, in another you have people bitching that every NPC worships the player by default. Which is it?
>>338922357
humans
are
raiders
>>338921802
bait
>>338923639
Yup
>>338923965
In that case you forgot
>doesn't shut off the fucking machines that keep reviving you
>doesn't have the machines set up to revive him
>>338923724
One of the only ways the game actually reacts to your choices in the context of the broader world has Three Dog indiscriminately praising your every deed and random people in the street giving you gifts for giving water to the homeless.
>>338924096
>not using the sham to fight you
>or a whole army at the Warrior's arena
>>338924164
>indiscriminately praising your every deed
He shits on you for doing the bad karma thing. His praise is heavily discriminating.
>random people
I'd be inclined to give a stimpak or some food to the guy who's killing super mutants and raiders all day.
>for giving water
Yes, the karma system needs more nuance and to be stricter with penalties are rewards, but if you're the saint that everyone can easily become (karma wise, water donations aside) even if you're an asshole to people, the mere act of you playing the game results in your performing a service for everyone civilized person in the game.
With the ease of positive karma accumulation and people's reactions to you, at some point I just write it off to gameplay, not developer intent.
>>338924164
>Three Dog indiscriminately praising your every deed
Actually, he condemns some of your deeds. Nothing "indiscriminate" about it.
New Vegas has the exact same thing, the announcer just neglects to mention it's the same guy doing it all.
>>338924164
>praises your every deed
But that's wrong you retard.
If you nuke megaton and still manage to have good karma he'll talk shit about you when his megaton dialogue comes up.
Same thing happens if you do something good when you have bad karma.
>>338920210
>Because politics ruined the world and he hates politics, it makes sense to support a guy who literally crucifies people.
>>338924472
>>338924567
>>338924585
Indiscriminate was the wrong word; forgive the poor phrasing. Anyway, there are only two "evil" things in his entire collection of commentary; everything else is generally positive. When the play-by-play of all your quests is filtered through his praise specifically for you, the Lone Wanderer, regardless of your overall Karma, it comes across as messianic fellation. Contrast with New Vegas, where Mr. New Vegas rarely mentions the courier himself and almost always simply writes up an objective report about the events, no "good fight" spin.
>>338924567
>New Vegas has the exact same thing, the announcer just neglects to mention it's the same guy doing it all.
That's infinitely better. Make it seem like you're not the only person doing shit. You just happened t be the guy that got it rolling or was the linchpin or helped out.
>>338921917
finally someone mentioned nightkins. by far the stupidest shit in NV
>okay writing team we need a new enemy for this FO3 spinoff
>ummmmmmm.... super mutants.... but they blue...
>EPIC GIB THIS MAN A RAISE XD
obsidicucks will defend this. this is fromsoftware tier enemy recycling
>>338925117
Mad bait mate.
>>338924930
Well, they're different people and one has a personal relationship with you, the other doesn't.
If you actually met Mr. NV and did quests for him, I'm sure he'd be more familiar too.
>limited evil dialogue
The player is generally doing positive things. I can't even really comment on his negative karma/quest dialogue because I was never inclined to play it.
>>338924991
The announcer only ever talks about things the player can influence. If anything, I got the distinct impression from the system that the courier is the only person in the Mojave doing anything at all.
For example, NCR will never retake the prison until the courier initiates it. The courier is not in any way key to retaking the prison, it just won't happen until the courier elects to join in. How the fuck does that make any sense?
You people are so blatantly biased in your evaluation of these two games and as far as I can tell it stems purely from pseudo-intellectualism. New Vegas is the "thinking man's game", Fallout 3 is for kids.
Well they are both for fucking kids, one of them just takes itself a little too seriously.
>>338920592
>basically unscathed by bombs or radiation
No it wasn't. Quite a few bombs got through House's defences. Not enough to turn the place into a crater, but enough to kill everyone there and reduce most of it to rubble.
>Covered in somewhat fertile, farmable land and a MASSIVE source of clean water
Most of the map is unfarmable desert, and there weren't many people in the area anyway. It was just a handful of tribals around before House. Even if they knew how to farm as well as the NCR does, they didn't have the manpower or the need to make big farms.
>>338925485
yeah thats something endemic to bethesda games in general.
nothing happens without you.
>>338921212
Where dso you find out if the Bright Followers make it to the promised land?
>>338925485
The entire player focused world is just something you accept in most vidjya juegos.
It's not worth criticizing to me.
>>338919485
3, the ranger also does sniping, or did before his injury. And the enclave pilot, the farmer,and the doc with her 2 goons can porbably handle a gun. If shit hit the fan they got a ranger station south and a NCR powerplant up north.
>>338925735
I agree.
But apparently if the developer is Bethesda we are supposed to suddenly start vehemently criticizing it around here.
>>338925117
They were already nightkins in fallout, they weren't blue thou, there were also Super-Duper Mutants which i like to think they came back in the form of the behemoths
>>338922036
>you will never catch the chupacabra
>>338926046
hooked
>>338919167
fuck this fucking picture
game has issues, but this is fucking dumb.
>>338926219
nah get the fuck out with that big pile of samefagging
>>338926343
This is my first post in the thread.
>>338926219
>(you)
every time
>>338926402
What?
>>338926371
the screencap friend.
only a few of those were even arguments against the original argument. the rest were handwaves.
the end is perfect.
>good thing they patched out your death right?It was DLC. They SOLD it to you.
>>338926104
I just wanted to say Super-Duper Mutants, okay?
>>338926219
Fallout 3 is a big pile of shit.
The original Fallout game was a gritty world where you explore the vast California desert in search of a water purification chip. It drew influences from Mad Max, campy 50’s sci-fi movies, and pulpy comics of the same era. It had a streak of pitch-black comedy running throughout it. It wasn’t about the 1950’s, it was about the future that the 1950’s anticipated. It was a game that took place in the future of the past.
Bethesda saw this template and concluded that a Fallout game needed to take place in the desert, it needed to be about water, it should contain screwball comedy, and that it should be the 1950’s forever.
In Fallout 1, you needed a water chip to save the lives of your people who lived in an underground vault. In Fallout 3 you’re trying to clean water for a wasteland that you have no reason to care about, for people who seem to be doing okay without your help, because your idiot dad told you too. (Yes, Dad is an idiot. I know he sounds smart because he’s got the voice of Liam Neeson, and Liam Neeson can make anything sound brilliant, but trust me: Dad is a bone-head. We’ll get to him later.)
They tried to keep the “desert” concept, but moved the game to Washington D.C. where a desert motif makes no sense. They tried to keep the pulp sc-fi tone, but it was often undercut by Bethesda’s putty-faced NPC’s, horrendous washed out color palette[3], and blunt attempts at photo-realism. They completely misunderstood the humor, replacing ‘dark comedy’ with ‘goofball situations’. And finally, the whole 50’s thing was greatly exaggerated and then rendered nonsensical by moving the timeline forward to 200 years after the war.
This fundamental misunderstanding of the Fallout tone and themes infuses the game and is the source of nearly every major design failing.
>>338926219
Why did the retard that screencapped that include all the replies too? That's fucking retarded, all we needed was 2 posts and in the attempt of being E P I C you made it look retarded as fuck, the image it is replying to is so much simpler
>>338919167
i still dont understand why the flash grenade shouldnt have worked
>>338926547soft canon
>>338926501
>implying you buy it anymore
You can get the full game with DLC cheap as fuck. It's been 8 years.
And everything in it makes sense to me. The original one sounds like it's making shit up.
>>338926550
I said the game had problems. I just said it wasn't THOSE problems.
>>338925117
That's some pretty good bait. Impressive. Very Nice
>>338926628
>its cheap so you're not buying it
next you'll say it doesn't count because you can just steal it I guess
>>338926628
>I said the game had problems. I just said it wasn't THOSE problems.
Oh alright.
>>338926690
When you're getting it ten times cheaper than the game at it's original launch, with more shit to it, I'd say it atleast counts for something, right?
>>338918923
I have no love for Fallout 3, but its no less stupid than anything in any of the other games. The settlement of megaton was founded by people who actually wanted the bomb to explode, thats what they're waiting for. Everyone else moved in because they felt safer among other people than out in the wastes and didn't think the bomb was going to explode after so long.
>>338926760
as far as content goes yes
as far as the integrity of the story, and the main character dying a supposedly heroic but critically a completely nonsensical death that was later retconned by DLC forcing the player to pay money to continue playing after the main quest?
no, no that was the cherry on top of the turd cake.
>>338926550
>And finally, the whole 50’s thing was greatly exaggerated and then rendered nonsensical by moving the timeline forward to 200 years after the war.
That's a strength. It lends a unique aesthetic to the series. It moves the series into an Atom-age aesthetic with it's own unique charm.
>>338926596
Nothing else in the game in the same scenario can produce the same effect. If I were hit with some sort of experimental immobilization/knockout ray (like the mesmetron) or had them use some sort of emp to lock my power armor (if the game determined I was using it), it wouldn't even be an issue as long as you can get your hands on the same equipment and do the same thing to other NPCs.
It's not getting knocked out that sucks, it's being scripted to be knocked inspite of every protection you might have and with a piece of equipment you never get to see work for anyone but your enemies who never use it again.
Just like with Autumn's radiation cure, it couldn't just be rad-x or rad away. If there were some extremely rare or difficult to make/experimental radiation warding concoction that you can actually see the values for, that's cool. Otherwise, it's hereto unmentioned bit of plot convenience that's never seen again
>>338918923
What really got me is why the fuck did they have to "open the gate" for you? You go there because you think your dad went there, they confirm that "oh you just missed him" and they still closed the gates but after you come and go as you please they never bother closing them again.
Now that I'm thinking about it WHo the fuck closed the vault door when your dad goes to the simulation vault. The only mobile inhabitants are Robobrains and there's a flight of stairs they'd have to scale.
>>338926901
That's a fair point. I'm just saying, talking about today, the DLC is worthless with the main game, so you can kind of forget it ever happened.not that you should
>>338926864
Hey at least you could play after the "heroic act"
Could have been much worse. Like show us a slideshow than put use back before the major event happened.
>>338926219
Some of those counterpoints make little sense though, and
>good thing it was patched out
Fucking when? I played the game literal years after it was released and I still couldn't get the Super Mutie to do the radiation chamber for me.
>>338926915
Welp, here we go.
The original Fallout was a setting where we were just a single generation away from the Old World. People still remembered it, and it still shaped the way people thought. People were still sifting through the ashes, trying to cling to the ruined world. They were still dressing, speaking, and thinking like people from a retro-50’s future. But that tension between the old world and the new can only last so long. It certainly isn’t going to survive for 200 years.
Two hundred years ago, men wore knee-high stockings, powdered wigs, and got married at 14 years old. 200 years is a long time, and technology has transformed us and our culture in countless ways. The change would be at least that dramatic in the other direction, moving from a world of plenty to a world of ruin. To put it another way: 200 years after a nuclear war, people aren’t going to be forming greaser gangs.
200 years after the bombs fell, the old world should just be gone. But no. In Fallout 3 people still dress the same, stores still have Old World food on the shelves, the old machines still work, and people still talk about the war the way we discuss 9/11. Nobody has made any new music, culture, customs, clothing[4], or tools. They haven’t even swept the dang floor.
In this world the bombs fell, people crawled out of the rubble and formed little towns, and then nothing happened for the next 190 years.
Note that I’m NOT saying that the Bethesda writers should have made up some crazy future-world with all new cultures. If they did, it would barely feel like earth. It might feel something like Zeno Clash, but it certainly wouldn’t feel like the Mad Max / 50’s pulp sci-fi mashup the series is known for.
>>338927030
Was ment for >>338926901
My apologies
>>338918923
Its called irony op.
Im just assuming as you're bludgeoning us over the head with the hyperbole laden rant of a fellow with poor taste that perhaps you're also the sort of tool who uses the word often, ignorant of it's meaning.
>>338926920
robobrains can go up stairs
>>338927064
I’m saying that they shouldn’t have moved the story forward 200 years. The Fallout world makes the most sense while you’ve still got some people around to remember the war. The farther you get from N-Day, the harder it is to maintain that unique Fallout flavor, the harder it is to conceive how society would develop, and the harder it is to justify having old-world customs, attitudes, gadgets, and food.
Why was this done? So that the events of Fallout 3 wouldn’t conflict with the events of the previous two games? This 200 year thing is a really ugly hack to solve that problem. And it was a waste, since they ended up retconning and altering lots of big ideas from the earlier games anyway.
Since the writer could barely make a single quest that didn’t implode under the weight of its internal contradictions, they should have made things as easy on themselves and just stuck to the “one generation after the war” idea the series began with. Like all the other missteps, it was a move that caused more problems than it solved and riddled the whole thing with plot holes.
>>338919843
>>338920034
I love this place sometimes
>>338927063
It was included in the Operation Anchorage DLC.
You can get the game of the year addition dirt cheap now with all the shit they added.
Not really a patch, but you get the idea.
>>338926219
>that post about FO4
>calling the xbone "The One" capitalization and all
>>338927063
That isn't patched out. You having to die is.
With the DLC (not patch) the game just guilt trips you for sending radiation immune people into the chamber by saying when they time came, they stepped up and were the real heroes.
>>338927112
wait, really? We're thinking of the same robots right? How the hell do they scale stairs with treads? I mean I guess it's possible, it just seems weird picturing this in my head.
>>338927182
I have to admit. I lol'd at that part. If only the guy just included the rebuttal, and not all the faggot replies.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQyb8vFc-fw
>>338919739
>what do they eat
Fuck off BTongue. Go back to being dead.
I always heard Brotherhood of Steel was a bad game, but I never looked up gameplay of it until now.
What the fuck?
>>338927030
You died. Unless you paid an additional $15 to play the dlc that was the end.
You got the slideshow and sent to the menu. It actually wasn't a bad ending at the time. It had a certain amount of power to it. But after players thought about it, it got more and more retarded. Then they retconned it as DLC.
>>338926990
The ultimate argument, the /thread, the last word about FO3 (and even FO4) and New Vegas is we're STILL discussing the story of New Vegas today and there was never that much popular discussion about FO3s story, and there is hardly any discussion about FO4. It pretty much fell off a month after release.
Yeah bethesda sold plenty of copies but the story was average, slightly better than FO3 but still nowhere near as compelling as NV.
That's the bottom line. We're still captivated by NV.
>>338921374
he's a gambling man
it's up to you whether or not you're a good bet for him to make
>>338927064
The 50s-esque, Atom Age aesthetic is great and is a big part of Fallout 3/NV's charm.
The only flaw is that the timeline is too exaggerated. The flaw is just in the year it is formally set in. If FO3 and NV were set 70 years after the bombs a ton of stuff would make more sense.
>>338927129
>200 years
Why did they do this again? 200 years is a real long time and all they did was fuck the rest of the wasteland up by cheating the fallout world out of centuries of development. Now everything on the east coast has a stretch of "pretty much nothing happened" that really sucks.
>>338927436
>If FO3 and NV were set 70 years after the bombs a ton of stuff would make more sense.
No shit. But it's not. That's the problem.
>>338927129
>I’m saying that they shouldn’t have moved the story forward 200 years. The Fallout world makes the most sense while you’ve still got some people around to remember the war. The farther you get from N-Day, the harder it is to maintain that unique Fallout flavor, the harder it is to conceive how society would develop, and the harder it is to justify having old-world customs, attitudes, gadgets, and food.
This is something I noticed within the first hour of playing New Vegas, my first Fallout game. The chose the wrong three digits to give the chronological setting.
I like to pretend that it was less time since the bombs landed and everyone has the year wrong.
>>338927129
>Since the writer could barely make a single quest that didn’t implode under the weight of its internal contradictions, they should have made things as easy on themselves and just stuck to the “one generation after the war” idea the series began with. Like all the other missteps, it was a move that caused more problems than it solved and riddled the whole thing with plot holes.
Yes. The world is more than big enough for multiple games to occur at the same time without the stories affecting each other.
This is a video of Tim Cain talking about the development of Fallout 1. It's actually really interesting and I suggest we watch it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa5IzHhAdi4
If you want the inspirations and desired aesthetics of Fallout 1, he covers that in this video. I forget where, but it's sort of toward the beginning/beginning-middle.
>>338927260
Robots with brains on top and triangle treads on the bottom. They moved upstairs in Fallout 4 at least. Maybe it's different in 3. I don't remember.
>>338927554
That'd be really interesting fan-canon and GREAT canon if bethesda could do something memorable for once.
Like crackpot theories about how we lost centuries/the current date is wrong because of bad record keeping. Except in reverse.
>>338925902
"had" a ranger station you mean.
For how unrealistic it was Fallout 3 did have a lot more interesting towns and cities than NV.
About the only thing I would say Fallout 3 got better.
>>338927438
*the inflection I intended was WHY DID THEY DO THIS AGAIN?!!?!?!?!?!
Should've written it like that
>>338927438
>Why did they do this again? 200 years is a real long time and all they did was fuck the rest of the wasteland up by cheating the fallout world out of centuries of development. Now everything on the east coast has a stretch of "pretty much nothing happened" that really sucks.
It's such a tiny thing too. It's three digits that were written into the script to be repeated a bunch of times. But it sabotages the setting to a considerable degree.
They just had to choose a different number. A different combination of digits. But they created a fictional world with the intent that it be believable so the three, plain, doo-daw, fucking numbers you see on the screen mean so fucking much. They stand for the sun passing thousands of times over the heads of millions of people who are all unique and leave an impact on the world.
Playing fallout 4 makes me look back fondly on fallout 3.
It's just so fucking bad.
Fuck you Todd you piece of shit bastard.
Fuck you.
>>338927920
Thanks for buying.
>>338927436
>Fo4
>200 years
>A robot stays exactly still
>A kid stays exactly still, all the while his parents stay exactly still in a house
>A chinese soldier stays exactly still
It's like the bombs went off yesterday.
B R A V O
Also
>Ghouls don't need food to survive
>except when they're in your settlements
>>338928057
>still being mad about fridge kid
It's a random event like the tardus in fallout 1
Bith are non-canon
>>338928057
>>Fo4
Enough said.
If I had to spend 200 years in a fridge I'd go fucking insane.
But that ghoul kid gets out and he's like
>yo waddup
>>338928161
>random
It happens no matter what, UNLIKE the tardis easter egg. Which is an easter egg.
Ghouls in Fallout 4 supposedly don't need food. Simple as.
Why?
Because they said so. They need it to set up WACKY WORLD LOL
>>338928057
>A chinese soldier stays exactly still
>Still for 200 years as his comrades mill about mindlessly as ghouls below deck
>200 years he sits and waits
>Waits until someone will come and kill them for him because he can't do it
>All that time waiting despite desiring to return to China
>200 hundred years
>>338922036
I understand that you may be shocked by the revelation, but redirect your anger toward the chupacabra with the automatic weapon.
>>338928310
That's what mean. 200 years and the world doesn't change. There's logical errors everywhere.
They could've fucking used any number, but they say 200 years despite it looking like 2 months.
>>338927901
Didn't even have to be a negative, could be a plus if they focused on how the new "post-post apocalyptic" world looked and functioned. Could be really fun and interesting.
I used to play an P&P RPG like that. It had a lot of the same traits as Fallout, but it thrived on the new cultures and worlds that had sprung up instead of just wallowing in the old, it still had a lot of throwbacks to the old world, but things were more rare and when you do come across something old world it was a lot more powerful.
Like take the Tribals in Honest Hearts, they are a fuckload more interesting than "Minutemen" could ever be.
>>338928273
Oh yeah. You're still mad. It's a random event. Pull your head out of your ass.
Now explain to me. If ghouls didn't need food than why is there a fucking farm owned by ghouls.
>>338928310
I think that little boy was right where even die hard bethesda fans admitted FO4 had some core issues.
>>338928431
If ghouls DO need food, then explain to me how both a solider and a kid survived for 200 YEARS in places that had no food. Whatsoever.
>>338928492
Again the kid is a random event.
Not everyone comes acrossed him. They even said they were just having fun making quests.
Is that so hard for you to understand?
>>338928492
They ate pieces of themselves and drank their own piss
>>338928574
lol no it fucking isn't. Check the wiki. There is NO mention of it being a random quest. It's a fucking side-quest. It was put permanently in the game. Not as an easter egg.
>>338928678
So again.
You are mad that some developers had fun and put in a quest you don't like.
>>338928574
Fucking shut the fuck up this literally fucking ruins everything about the game and if you don't agree you're a fucking gay shill.
>>338927920
>the fallout 4 is shit meme
I mean it's not great, but it's decent.
>>338928574
>it's a random event because if it isn't then i look like a retard who defends retarded shit
Nice job I'm convinced
>>338928574
>Again the kid is a random event.
Its a fixed event, not a random event, are you going to tell me the main quest is a random event too?
>>338928896
>>338928903
Hey i found him in to different spots and assumed
Fight me.
>>338928819
If you just throw anything you can think of into a story, even if it makes no logical sense, you will cease to be immersed in it. That's storytelling 101.
Consistency within the world is key to making the fictitious elements more believable.
>>338928819
>What are you doing none of this makes sense
>it's just a game bro, chill
>why are you so bothered
>we don't need consistency
Pete Hines is that you?
And who the fuck said I'm mad lol. Holy shit is this what /v/ has become?
>>338928960
Fuck are you a dumbass.
I have a hard time believing you're even 18.
>>338928964
The games inconsistent as is but somehow a kid in a fridge makes it worse?
INTENSE COMPLICATED MORAL CHOICES
A) DON'T BLOW UP THE BOMB AND EVERYONE LIVES
B) BE A FUCKING ASSHOLE AND BLOW UP THE BOMB FOR NO REASON
HOW DO I DECIDE THIS MORAL CONUNDRUM
>>338929040
Yes. Because it makes incredibly little sense. Both with the amount of time, and how ghouls are set up.
IS this hard to understand? It makes it worse.
I miss weapons being truly unique. Where did the
>we want the borderlands audience
idea even come from!?!?
>>338929090
How can it make it worse? How?
Even normies figured out the story was absolute garbage.
There is a flying fucking ship manned by robots and a zone in the bottom left corner that's still intensely radiated after 200 fucking years with people living in the center of it but somehow. Somehow a kid in a fridge makes it worse.
Out of the hundreds upon thousands of things wrong with the game. A kid in a fridge is where you drew the line?
>>338926219
Water doesn't get radiated though?
>>338929321
It's not where I "draw the line"
It's another pile of shit on top of the already huge pile of shit. Simple as.
>>338929321
>drew the line
There's no need for that.
Kid in fridge is a stark and simple to explain example of the issues it and other components of the game and Bethesda's approach to the lore represent.
>STILL arguing about Fo3 vs. NV
>not just agreeing that FO4 was the worst piece of shit in the world at and least it's FUN to play the other two games
COME ON
>>338919485
Yeah the should have just put up a fucking tent in the middle of the desert instead, there isn't anything else around, better than nothing dipshit
>>338929425
Does anyone actually care about the lore of 3 and 4?
Don't most people who care about that stuff just consider them not canon?
>>338929442
>still playing video games
>not just starting a family and snagging a nice job or building a successful business
IT'S THE CURRENT YEAR
>>338928057
>kid stays perfectly still in a fridge for 200 years
>not a single animal has even tried to open it despite being really close to the fridge
>the kid didn't need food
>he didn't even try to somehow open the fridge with simply falling the fridge over
>parents who live not far off the fridge never bothered with finding him either
>>338926219
Shut the fuck up, heretic.
>>338920374
>Implying that a glorified raider in a post-apocalyptic future, hundreds of years from now would be an expert on history
The fact that he's bastardizing the roman culture and only embracing it's warmongering side is the entire point of the faction, you halfwit.
>>338929442
To be fair it's only marginally worse than F3. F3 is an unbelievable turd, easily one of the worst mainstream RPGs of the past decade.
>>338926570
Because it took 4 years for FO3 fans to come up with a response to the original screencap. So desperate were they to prove that their precious game wasn't as retarded as it actually is that a bunch of useless replies had to be added to try and convince you, the reader, that a large majority of people on /v/ think that FO3 had good writing.
>>338919485
>TFW you'll never explore a real-sized post-apocaliptyc settlement
>kilometers of farming plots,a real trading outpost where people and caravans travel from all accross the wasteland to sell their useless junks for some caps
>TFW stuck with fucking gamebryo that allows 10 houses/structures in most settlements
>villain had 2 perfect chances to kill you
>only attempts to actually fight you when you're basically Godtier
>>338930195
What about the Hub?
>>338929051
But with the second option you get a cool penthouse suite! It gives you no actual gameplay benefits compared to the ramshackle hut you get in Megaton but that's beside the point.
>>338930349
What FOnline version is this
>you can't side with Autumn
this is all I wanted
fuck I'm still mad over it
>>338929587
>member of the Gunners approaches you and wants to buy the kid
>who he could have just taken out ages before you came through this place
>>338918923
honestly
that will never be as bad as the ending for FO3.
>>338931010
Is <insert newest FOnline version> dead as shit like it was last time I played. I really enjoyed hoarding items in a camp. I don't know why but hoarding supplies and guns and shit to amounts that I will never use but organized so that I can grab whatever I want whenever I need makes my dick hard
I for one enjoyed blowing up the city of Megaton.
>>338919674
Nothing wrong there, you are a moron with shit taste which isn't new
Enclave here
>>338931325
Fonline reloaded is p active.
>>338931667
Why isn't your video feed working?
>>338927678
>do a NCR run
>piss of the Legion by killing Vulpes
>Ranger Andy to check up on Charlie
>go there, everyone is dead blah blah blah
>suddenly get jumped by Legion Assassins
>be kind of low level and not have much ammo left so can't really take them on
>they suddenly clip into the ground
>they just move in circles
>forever
>when I came back later for something else, they were still there, floating in clipped space
Whelp.
>>338920769
Come Fly With Me was a mediocre to arguably bad quest. Fun conclusion though.
The quest everyone should be loving is Arizona Killer.
>tfw all those way you can assassinate the President of the NCRplease no watchlist FBI
>all those cheevos too for doing it in a unique way
=
>>338918923
Fallout 3 is such a shit game, why do i like it so much
>ctrl+f "planet of the apes "
>0 results
Fucking hell /v/. Soon you'll tell me that a city of the dead populated with ghouls and survivors inhabiting a battle cruiser are original ideas too.
>>338929442
But the engine is 3 and NV is a clunky peice of shit and not fun to play at all. The funs in the exploration. 4 at least has entertaining gun play, and Boston feels like an actual city. Conversation wheel is wank tho
>>338922394
>Now why the enclave hadn't shown up and jacked everything of value is a very good question.
They had enough issues establishing their dominance on the coast, and after Fallout 2 were in no position to do anything.
>>338931667
>Dead faction has the coolest aesthetics
>>338921710
I want to impregnate that she-elf.
>>338923389
Wasn't his ultimate goal to turn his army of disciplined tribal shits into a proper civil society using New Vegas, though? May not have worked because he's the only intelligent non-tribal shit in the entire Legion, but that was the plan.
>>338919859
Doesnt he admit hes trying to jump start human civilization by starting from scratch? Basing his new world order off of the base from the old world order?
So what was House's deal?
Why does he care what happens?
He's a decrepit barely living corpse.
Why does he give even the slightest fuck?
>>338929779
FO3 babbies btfo once again, forevermore
>>338931667
The Enclave were fucking mental to the point where they shouldn't really have been in the game, IMO.
>designed and produced the most advanced suit of power armour the world has ever seen and made enough of them to equip a literal army of dudes
>took a prototype cutting-edge helicopter design, polished it, put it into production, then built enough of the things to be ubiquitous among their small army of dudes wearing the best power armour ever made
>all of this was achieved AFTER the nuclear apocalypse
>their enemies are a bunch of tribal shits, small civs using black powder guns and ballistic armour, and the insular order of techno-knights who aren't terribly numerous and use plain inferior equipment
Don't get me wrong, I still love them, but beating them needed some serious fiat on the protagonist's part. The Enclave were better than the pre-war US Army, for crying out loud.
>>338939597
you're just jealous of their tactical superiority
>>338918923
>bomb hasn't exploded
>there's a huge crater anyway
>>338938734
He loves humanity?
>>338920769
Nobody's favorite quest is Come Fly With Me. Everyone knows it's a tedious slog with nothing but shitty fetching.
>>338940250
>the nuclear war happened in 2077, long after everyone's main nuclear arsenal had moved from bombs to missiles, both ballistic and plane-carried
>Bethesda takes 'the bomb' to mean literal, Fat Man-style bombs
>>338940250
Imagine being this retarded
>>338938734
he wants the world to prosper even after the bombs fell
these things take time and the idiot war doesn't help in any way
FO3's main problem was the fact that it didn't give a fuck about following the rules it set for its universe and basically did everything for the fun of it, which is interesting at first but in an open world game it quickly gets retarded because it becomes clear that they don't give a shit about making anything worth together. Shit exists just because.
Oh and everything that wasn't a set piece town was a copy pasted tower/power station/factory/metro/etc and let me tell you that shit wore thin too.
>>338929779
>a child's gate stops an entire garrison of power armored soldiers.
What a retard.
>>338941220
and they cant just say that the enclave killed all the children because Macready is in fo4
>>338941374
Why would they kill the kids? They are completely powerless to stop them at all.
>>338941870
because they refuse to open the gate for them?
>>338918923
Megaton would've been fine if it was entirely full of Church of Atom guys.
>>338942162
It's tiny ass gate the Lone Wanderer can look over by jumping. there is no way 30 men in power armor can't pick up a wooden gate.
>>338942747
>kids open fire at trespassers
>enclave would view them as hostiles
>past enclave actions would not make it hard to believe that they wouldnt just massacre the children up front for being an obstacle
>>338942946
Only one with a gun is macready and of you stick him in game he runs and hides like a Bitch. I highly doubt he would open fire on the Enclave.
>>338943392
>>past enclave actions would not make it hard to believe that they wouldnt just massacre the children up front for being an obstacle
>>338943574
>the kids are obstacles
>not the gate itself
If you even can call a small wooden gate an obstacle.
