Why does Fallout have such terrible villains? Every last fucking one of them are unapologetically evil for no good reasons.
>>338444872
Why do you think a villain has to be morally grey to be good?
The Master and all of the New Vegas villains were nowhere near "evil for no reason".
Each had beliefs, however flawed, justifying their actions.
Horrigan is a literal autist mutant cyborg don't expect him to be anything but that.
>>338445280
Hell the Master when given proof that his plan will fail, decides to destroy his work.
>>338444872
And the Enclave has an ideology that can be admired they just have extreme methods.
>>338444872
>I didn't play Fallout 1
>>338445561
their methods are the ideology
>>338445280
Horrigan did nothing wrong.
>>338445280
They kinda dropped the ball with Legion in NV, I guess that it was supposed to be harsh but efficient and secure society but now it was more like "lulz rape and raze". They really should have had more time to actually have the other side of the river playable.
The Master went insane after becoming a string-cheese fleshy mass of fused minds (not all human). If you could argue to him that his Man of the Future were bred to inherit the Wasteland were fundamentally flawed due to their sterility he would finally go off the deep end and just blow it all up because he himself is a dead-end freak monster.
The Enclave was the remnant of the powerhungry psychopathic Washington political caste. Is it really any wonder they were evil? Frank Horrigan was just their attack dog--he was an autismo freak they further mutated and then grafted into a special suit of power armor to be their brutal, dumb, unthinking enforcer.
I didn't play Fallout 3 since bethesda are shit so I dunno what that was about, but in the real Fallout 3 you just had clashing ideologies. The NCR were the same powerhungry sacks of shit of the Old World--if you really think bringing that back is best--while the Legion was a regime led by a mad genius who wanted to smash all the disparate elements of the Wasteland into a new culture. House was an amoral psychopath technocrat who didn't give a fuck about humans but he did give a fuck about having a nice ordered society to keep the little cogs working towards fulfilling his ambitions. The Courier was the one who would decide how the House regime would treat the NPCs.
>>338444872
> Implying the Enclave was evil
I'll have you know that the Enclave were actually the good guys.
>>338446643
>in the real Fallout
Don't be such an obsidiot
>>338446868
t.odd Howard
>>338446868
I have to agree with him.
Bethesda fucked up the lore so bad with Fallout 3 that it's not even funny. I'm not even saying it's a bad game, it's just that honestly it would have been way better off being a completely different apocalyptic RPG and Bethesda could have had a lot more creative freedom and a lot less room to fuck up..
>>338446643
Oh please, New Vegas is just as shit as 3
People like to talk about how great FO2 is but it is honestly so shit, if it was released in 2010 no one would like it.
>>338446643
>I didn't play Fallout 3 since bethesda are shit so I dunno what that was about
It's not that bad. It's still really fun to wander the wasteland and explore shit while blasting mutants and raiders with laser guns.
>>338444872
>who is the NCR
>who is House
>who isFo4 Brotherhood
The rest are indeed moustache-twirlingly evil.
>>338446643
Horrigan had 10 in every stat
>>338447231
autists are known to be smart and funny to laugh at
>>338447151
You can do that in NV too so 3 is obsolete
>>338446643
> Dumb, unthinking
Nigger, he had a 10 in intelligence. How the fuck is he dumb or unthinking?
Not everyone who gets infected with the FEV turns into a mind boggling moron. Just take at Lou. Lou was a fucking genius.
>>338447112
Yeah, but seriously, this "the REAL fallout" meme is incredibly grating
>>338446345
>>338446643
Hello Avellone, what are your thoughts on 4?
>>338447365
you can get TTW and just play FO3 in NV anyway
>>338446643
>the real fallout 3
he gon dun did it
>Frank Horrigan
>evil
fuck off mutie apologizer
>>338447515
Does TTW fix the writing and lore? :^)
>>338447579
Hey Frank! How's life without legs or a head?
>>338447502
>this nigh genius with clear direction within his work once wrote for the Fallout series
>now we have depressingly low-tier scum "writing" for the games
>>338445073
Both hero and villain should have moral complexities unless it's a myth, fable, or children's story.
>You can join some shit faction like the Railroad
>You can never join the Enclave
Why does it hurt so bad?
>>338448232
He's also an SJW
>>338449106
the enclave doesn't exist after 3
>>338449359
Who cares?
>>338449451
I'm aware, but they do exist in other games but you could never join them. Meanwhile here's some shit faction that's about freeing toasters that's joinable, and it hurts knowing that such a terrible "faction" can be joined but an actual cool, interesting faction can't. Though given the Enclave's policies, an outsider probably couldn't join them.
oooh goodie a fallout thread,
just bought fallout 2 the other day, im still in the temple of trials
is this build good? aiming for a sniper character
ST 5
PE 9
EN 5
CH 4
IN 9
AG 9
LK 6
>>338444872
>Why does Fallout 3 and 4 have such terrible villains.
FTFY
>>338449712
Yeah that'll do. But an ST of 5 will make the temple hell for you.
>>338449556
Exactly. As long as he keeps handling his games as well as New Vegas it shouldn't even matter
>>338449786
Seriously, how hard is it to give your villain a goddamn motivation? What was Colonel Autumn's goal? Why did he want Project Purity? Why are the Institute replacing people with robots, and actively murdering the people of the Commonwealth and sabotaging their attempts to progress?
>>338449451
why not?
>>338449085
Why? There are people who are morally black and morally white in the real world.
>>338450210
>There are people who are morally black and morally white in the real world.
Yeah, and they last about as long as snowballs in hell.
>>338447502
>a lot of minor Legion characters came across as far more overtly misogynistic than I had intended them to
did they just trowel in the 'lulz raep and enslave women more like hobagz amirite why aren't you on your knees right now slut' to make up for lack of content, then? Because this seemed pretty fucking deliberate.
>>338450210
In the real world, evil people tend to think what they're doing is right, or at least have deluded themselves into thinking it's acceptable or justifiable.
>>338450103
Autumn just wanted to be in central control of the Capital Wasteland once it had the resources to actually start rising again and build everything under the Enclave banner, and the fresh water was the key component in that. Not exactly best writing ever, but somewhat understandable.
The thing that irked me most was the fact that he decided to go in all guns blazing: if they had actually approached the scientists running Purity peacefully and offered cooperation, would they have had any reason to refuse? It's not like BoS was involved before Enclave themselves shitted the bed.
>>338450429
>>>/tumblr/
>>338450429
These are frontline soldiers, they're likely told this as a way to reinforce their will to conquer. Take land, take women for Caesar and you will have both. Supposedly the cities not on the frontline, but in Legion territory weren't so misogynistic and incredibly stable and safe.
>>338446643
I actually don't think the actual villains were that stupid evil in 3, Colonel Autumn just kept trying to start up the purifier so he could have a leverage on the Capital Wasteland people and the father who just wanted to turn that thing on and let other people have made some not very smart decisions, even though he wasn't a fan of the Brotherhood, the President Adam was jsut a AI with glitches up its ass from all the time it was left on its own devices and even the Colonel was just following him for the moment to have access to the facilities becuase when he learned of the plan to kill anyone not a pure human he pointed out how fucking retarded that was sicne there were no pure humans anymore it woud just kill literally everybody, so by accident they managed to not make cartoonish villains
>>338447397
The truth is usually painful
>>338450203
Years of failing catastrophically and have their bases either self destructed or nuke from orbit kind of ends with your army
>>338450748
>play a female courier
>Legion faggot tells me girls are gross and good for nothing and that he's enslaved and raped his way across the wasteland literally like it's no thing
>expects to not get killed in the face
/pol/ plz.
>>338450203
Because the Obsidiots would throw a shitfit
>>338450971
They still could have something left in north, but I agree that they aren't a major player anymore in any way.
>>338450680
And he decided to show up, not in the eighteen years the purifier had been empty, but the moment people showed back up, and hadn't even gotten the thing working yet?
It would have been better if James came out of the Vault to find the Enclave had already taken the purifier, and you had to uncover some nefarious purpose they were using it for.
>>338450991
>expects to not get killed in the face
If you were the average woman it's a fair assumption on his part with most women cowering in fear or running from legion.
>>338450429
I imagine it would have been more about the role of women in the legion and the reasons behind it, that would give some depth to the misogyny. It's pretty much justified when you consider that forcing women to breed is basically essential for the continued survival of the legion war machine, all the other shit is just a way of justifying that.
>>338450680
The Brotherhood actually was helping James and the others build the purifier back before The Lone Wanderer was born but they stopped supporting it once they realized it wasn't gonna work.
>>338449967
Allright just finished temple
thanks anon
>>338450957
Your truth isn't backed up by scientific facts and undeniable evidence. Therefore it's an opinion and not objective
>>338451127
Even if they had for a time it didn't last, even with the Lyons rogue chapter the Brotherhood never suffered a big loos like the Enclave and I very much doubt they would allow the Enclave to walk freely if they knew they were at a place
>>338451313
but you being a faggot is
>>338451154
DIdn't Autumn and his Enclave chapter arrive at the Captal rather recently? Didn't they all come in that base crawler to look for Eden and see if he still worked? So the whole purifier was just a dumb coincidence?
>>338444872
I don't think any normal person can quite grasp exactly why these evil people are the way they are.
Consider this: they made a realization some time in their past, have come to terms with it, and got fed up with justifying it to everyone they met. Their beliefs seem evil to you, so you react a certain way when you encounter them, and by that reaction they know you think they're evil, so they embrace it and act fucking evil - even calling themselves the badguy to humor you.
Maybe they're not good or bad, and in the end, you just murder some guy to make your own point that someone else thinks is evil as fuck.
>>338449679
>Though given the Enclave's policies, an outsider probably couldn't join them.
I wouldn't want Emil to be the one to write it, but after decades of getting their asses kicked up and down the country, a more moderate enclave faction or at least branch would be an interesting development. Showing that they learned from each of their greatest downfalls.
>ok, it looks like if we start to put the boot to people, guys in blue jumpsuits tend to fuck out shit up, so maybe we should, you know, be nicer?
From there you have a more combative old guard amidst moderates and advocates for a kinder face that matches their propoganda.
Could be a neat premise for a game in chicago.
>>338451319
There's Enclave in Chicago
>>338444872
Master isn't evil, he's just really dumb. Vegas has you chose your own villains.
>>338451394
Good on you, falling back to stupid shit flinging when your meme isn't accepted, don't you have a fallout general to be at?
>>338447143
I can't tell you how proud it makes me that none of you responded to this.
>>338451524
where's that comic of hitler speaking calmly about wanting to genocide der juden and an angry strawman yelling about how he's bad for it. this reminds me of that.
>>338451616
but if it's a meme then its already been accepted thanks to how memes work
>>338451692
This one?
>>338451208
which would be possibly justifiable if the Courier wasn't an infamous single-body murder machine killing their way across the wasteland on a revenge mission.
How fucking stupid do you have to be to go up to the most dangerous woman in the state and go on about how little you think of women and how stupid and weak she is?
>>338451394
Gaming is art and art is subjective, there's nothing objective about thoughts about it. You can't say X is objectively Y because by very nature it's subjective to the one who experiences it.
>>338451586
I wouldn't really call any of them villains. They just become antagonists depending on your choices.
>>338451756
Also, the Courier was personally summoned by Caesar, so they should at least respect that.
>>338451532
Would be funny to see Enclave being the more rational faction when conpared to BoS. I mean, the western BoS are more or less just technology-hoarding jerks and eastern chapter has quickly became fanatical purifiers, so it wouldn't be that hard to be more sympathetic than them.
>>338451774
And that's why the abortion Bethesda produced isn't the real Fallout 3
>>338451756
It's laughably common and has come to be accepted that no matter how many people you've slayed, there'll always be people who don't believe it that still think it's a good idea to shit talk you.
Dishonored had some very nice dialogue about that showing that despite how deadly skilled you are, many people will still think it's mostly exaggeration having not seen you in action and that "oh, it's just one guy, i can take him". Are they dumb for it? Well, with all the tall tales I'm sure are spun in saloons and across the wasteland, I'd be doubtful that any one person is as skilled as he said she said.
Frank Horrigan is a dumb super soldier who exists because videogames need to have boss fights at the end, right?
The real villain is Dick Richardson but killing a middle aged bureaucrat isn't as cool.
>>338452072
Except that's your opinion, your interpretation. that's not fact. People have the intellectual freedom to disagree and art is a form of interpretation to express that.
>>338451753
exactly. thanks.
>>338452238
But this is art, facts can be interpreted how someone wishes
>>338451774
>You can't say X is objectively Y because by very nature it's subjective to the one who experiences it.
Bullshit. Even if art is ultimately experienced through a person's own perspective there are still objective attributes that can be quantified. For example, in pic related you can see how the different approaches to choices in each of the fallout games give you varying levels of control over the game world. You can say "I think Fallout 4 give the player more agency", but that's demonstrably false when you look at the ways the player is allowed to act and the ways the world will react to them.
>>338444872
FO3? The Enclave thinking everything belongs to them because they think they're the true American government wasn't a bad motivation.
>>338451692
>>338451753
Think about it.
Hitler had the majority of Germany aligned with him throughout the entire ordeal, and if he had won, that would have been best for his people and culture.
He wasn't a villain until after he was defeated, and though his ambitions would have seen the world change, who is to say it would have been for the worst?
And just look at Germany now, the aftermath of such massive cultural demoralization and loss as it was forced to abandon all ties to the man, however slight.
Is every villain so plainly and objectively evil, or do you just imagine them that way because they're opposed to your ideals?
Who really is evil, anon?
>>338452109
but as >>338451971 pointed out, the Courier was explicitly summoned by Caesar personally, who also put out an order for them to stop fucking with her.
speaking of which there's also the fact that it's possible to play the game up to that point having killed literally hundreds of Legionnaires. You'd think the Courier would begin to gain infamy as this woman who chews up Legion assassination squads without breaking a sweat.
>>338447370
Fallout Bible says otherwise. Don't assume hidden stats mean anything lore wise. Do you also assume your followers, including a nerd and a walking corpse, in New Vegas are 10 times as durable as the average Legion or NCR soldier for reasons that are never explained? That Caesar only has an intelligence and charisma of 4?
>>338452382
>That survival
I like that skill check dialogue changes depending on your skill level, regardless of success or failure.
>>338452029
>implying BoS is wrong in FO4
Kill the synths
>>338452476
>Is every villain so plainly and objectively evil, or do you just imagine them that way because they're opposed to your ideals?
No people aren't one-dimensional caricatures, but the fact remains that he was a genocidal warmonger.
>>338452539
>characters in an RPG are portrayed independently from their stats
That's pretty shitty when you think about it
>>338452476
>Hitler had the majority of Germany aligned with him throughout the entire ordeal
Except he didn't. He had to merge with another political party, kill his own supporters that were getting too popular and steal the parliament seats of the communists to actually become Fuhrer.
>>338452704
So was Mussolini, and yet the US allied with him.
>>338452812
Italy was part of the Axis, what are you talking about?
>>338451872
That's exactly what >>338451586 said. Through the choices you make as the MC, you get to decide who is righteous and who is in the way (read villainous) for that play through.
>>338452476
I get that what he did was initially in the benefit of the German people and from that perspective, he may deserve some reverence, but his decisions also descended "his" people and country into a bloody war, so even people who respect that he gave germany her pride back must see he set Germany up to lose it's son's and daughters. Yes, he's more complicated then hurr most evil man in da world, but by many accepted standards of "not the koolest dude", he was kind of a dick, as many revered men in history are.
>>338452785
reichstag was an inside job
>>338452812
>and yet the US allied with him.
we worked with the mafia to topple him
>>338449085
Sure, 'heroes' need some complexity for people to actually relate to them; but villains, on the other hand are best when they're dickbags for the sheer fun of it or other extremely simple reasons.
>>338450429
What he says sounds more dogmatic than malicious
>>338452382
Seriously, in Four you were forced to make decision and it was shit.
99% of the encounters had no diplomatic endings and just ended in killing someone or something.
>>338447502
>That false ending
Why the fuck would they not put that in? Would have been just a few minutes of recording time for extra lines and thats it. No extra effort for something that would have made a fun addition.
I will never not be mad that NV didnt get a reasonable dev time
>>338453421
>After all your posturing, all your little speeches, you're nothing but a common thief.
Agreed. Complexity does not make a villain great.
>>338452497
boat guy recognizes and respects that but doesn't understand why it's a woman or any male profligate.
>speaking of which
Part of the suspension of disbelief is recognizing that in RPGs, all of your actions won't be accounted for. Better games endeavor to cover many player action, but still, you'll probably always run into situations where your power armored demigod of murder is getting charged down by an addict looking to score jet money.
>>338452704
the us government has done 1000x worse things since the war has ended
>>338452637
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
>i never played Fallout 1: the thread
>>338452539
The Fallout bible says he's dumb? Really?
That's fucking interesting considering he spoke English fairly well and even understood how the FEV toxins and all that shit worked. I mean I knew he had mental problems but I didn't know he was retarded. Sauce?
>>338454052
it says he's insane. The Master is insane.
Learn to fucking read.
>>338453939
we have a better PR team and foreign aid contributions both public and private
Fallout 4 is essentially Borderlands.
Magical guns that fire two shots at once, despite only having one barrel. Magical guns with don't use ammo. Magical guns which set ammo on fire.
They also were pissed off everybody liked New Vegas much so, so instead of the Black and White shit they had in Fallout 3. They went with 'shades of grey'.
So in Fallout 4: Institute is.. badish, but hey means to an end! Hope for mankind! Also robot slaves. Also probably based off Apple inc.
Then you have the new Brotherhood of Steel. Essentially 40k's Imperium/Space Marines + Nazi Germany that HAET technology that's too advanced.
Then you have the Minute Men, which are okay. They just want to restore order and safety to the wasteland = no power at all, fucking useless.
Then you have the Railroad, which is tumblr for Robots.
Then there was barely any endings.
The DLC were all done by modders earlier and better. Buildable robots was available a month before DLC (funny, XCOM2 had the same problem, they got Alien XCOM members before the official DLC allowed to make them in game) and the 2nd DLC was just for autism simulation in the house.
They then moaned on about how the new DLC had "bigger area than Silver Isles! Omg how gud!" and guess what? It was FUCKING EMPTY. IT WAS ALSO 60% WATER.
The entire game is a fucking joke. Made by fucking suits "oh Borderlands is good, let's make that happen in game" and then "Oh NV is better, let's copy that!".
You're all fools for buying this shit. That's why the game is shit. Why the villains suck.
>>338450584
Not true, you think every dictator has been like that? My country once was controlled by a social circle that fucked the people literally because they could before our revolution. Not all bad people justify their actions, many embrace they are cunts and don't care since there is no one to stop them.
I understand being tired of the same type of character filling the same roll every time, but people believing those are caricatures and don't exist in the real world only tells you how distanced people/the first world are from this kind of things.
Yes people are complex, but also can be very simple. Give someone absolute power and tell them the rest are just there for them to be above and you will get with a IRL version of a Disney villain.
Frank Horrigan is actually great as a character but they didn't really do much with him or his battle. The guy is a walking contradiction. He hates mutants, but he is one. Everyone in the Enclave hates him for what he is, but is too afraid to do anything about it. The Enclave are a bunch of hypocrites who have no problem creating cyborg mutants and other monstrosities to fight for them and eliminate anything they deem "impure".
>>338454328
they didn't hate it because it was too advanced, they hated it because it threatened to subvert their designs for humanity
>>338453421
>childrens stories
>>338454052
Frank Horrigan is dumb, not The Master.
The Master was a really smart guy, considering he was a scientist before the FEV.
But Frank Horrigan is just a super-soldier for the Enclave, he needs muscle, not brains.
>>338454052
It's more that he's too stupid to realize that he has become the thing he hates.
>>338454458
No you misunderstand, they hated technology which was potentially too advanced. As in, they used technology that they couldn't do without and decided the other shit would fuck stuff up.
>>338454423
>My country once was controlled by a social circle that fucked the people literally because they could before our revolution.
BR friend?
>>338454423
>>338450584
sawyer covers this exactly
>>338454328
>Oh NV is better, let's copy that
But they did the opposite. Just about every improvement NV made on Fallout 3 was discarded.
>>338454595
Close, I guess all Latin America went through this.
>>338454595
i'm betting dominican republic
>>338454556
>BoS in Fallout 1 and 2 are pseudo-monks trying to control technology to prevent another Great War
>BoS in Fallout 4 are literally Fallout Nazis
Fucking Bethesda
>>338454668
And then they took all the game's new features from popular New Vegas mods.
>>338454682
Yep, Latin America is full of dictatorships, especially during the Cold War.
You have both the USA and the URSS for implementing them.
>>338454747
They must have listened to the fans who kept saying the BoS were too nice in FO3 and are supposed to be evil like they were in 1 and 2. Even though they weren't evil at all.
>>338454747
Except they also hate anyone not part of them and send the Vault Dweller to die a horrible death because he annoys a single guy.
>>338454771
To be fair, NV got a lot of it's new features from Fallout 3 mods.
In fact, I noticed the same bugs for a lot of those features existing in both the Fallout 3 mods and NV so either there's some sort of bizarre engine issue at fault and Obsidian could not be bothered fixing it or they just took the Fallout 3 mods and couldn't be bothered fixing them.
In either case Obsidian could not be bothered fixing a bug and there's nothing surprising about that.
>>338455002
They were just tired of the wannabees who kept coming to them so they sent them on an impossible quest. They weren't evil so much as they only care about themselves and only help out when something threatens them and the bureaucracy can be convinced to do something about it.
>>338455207
>impossible quest
they were expecting you to die
>>338453992
tl;dr This settlement is under attack let me mark it on your map
>>338454747
Fallout 3 BoS are just extremists. They skip the 'controlling technology' bit and go to destroying it.
It's good that every BoS chapter isn't the same.
>>338455002
I'm guessing you just read the wiki?
They send people to the Glow because they need shit from there but can't send any of their own man because a lot of their people already died there, so it's easier to send a random wasteland junkie.
Also, once you get there and accomplish their mission, they treat you with nothing but respect and actually helps you in your mission against the mutants.
>>338450429
But that statement is true...
>>338455264
Either die or give up
>>338455314
>Fallout 3 BoS are just extremists.
I meant Fallout 4.
>>338454423
THIS
Mexifag here years ago my hometown was controlled by the cartels, it was a small place far from cities, the police was just a bunch of guys, we didn't even had a doctor. The cartels came and controlled the place to have somewhere to save and grow/produce drugs. They took any woman they wanted, if anyone made them angry for whatever bullshit reason was killed, they had a choice to treat people well to have minimal confrontation but no, they where on a power trip, nothing they do had consequences, they could do as they whish and none thought it was for the greater good or some bullshit like that, they just wanted power and money.
It always boils down to that, power and greed. To think people fuck over others for some bullshit or complex reasoning is the child story here and those who go to the extreme to help their people like Hitler or Mussolini are only viewed as villains thanks to the enemy party who won the battle.
But the president was the villain of Fallout 2, Horrigan was literally just his attack dog because obviously the most pampered person on the continent cant go toe to toe with Wastelander Mcbadass main character, but his pet mutated cyborg can
Its even a plot point that most enclave citizens consider Horrigan a thoughtless Psycopath best to be avoided
>>338454130
>>338454548
I'm referring to Frank Horrigan, not the master.
>>338455780
truth its funny when people forget that some people are just plain old animals.
>>338455780
why didn't you join them pussy
>>338456098
Not all cartels recruit randomly also the more people you got, less money goes to your hand.
>>338456389
Oh. Sorry then. Maybe you'll find one that will take you one day.
>>338447502
>Horrigan
He seems pretty dedicated on giving so long answers. I mean, not all developers do the same.
how come all the villians in Bethesda Fallouts are so fucking bland and shit
like compare Fallout 1's the Master, a body horror biomass, to Fallout 3's Liam Neeson
or Caesar to Shaun/Father
why is boston full of orcs
>>338456717
>Liam Neeson
*col autumn
>>338456737
Institute kidnapped a bunch of people and turned them into mutants then threw them out into the wasteland. Eventually they got bored and stopped.
>>338456737
Lore answer: The Institute got their hands on some FEV and made them, and they got loose somehow.
Real/Bethesda answer: Because Fallout has Super Mutants, so they have to be there whether it makes sense or not.
>>338456951
how many hundreds of people did the institute convert
its not like super mutants can make more of themselves yet there are huge hordes of them in both boston and D.C.
So was the Survivalist also The Father in the Caves?
>>338456717
I actually rather liked Eden. Just the idea behind him; a super-computer that thinks it's president of America. Charming, genial and genocidal. Probably my favorite thing to come out of Fallout 3.
I just wish he wasn't written out like a pussy.
>>338454747
>fallout 1 Brotherhood actually talks and acts like medieval Knights, even the map for their base looks like an old tapestry
I miss the KNIGHTS angle of the brotherhood. Monks and Knights.
>>338457118
Yes. He helped out the early members of the Sorrows who came to Zion, and they started worshiping him as a god since he never showed his face to them.
Why do supermutants kidnap and ransom settlers for caps. Where do they spend these caps?
>>338444872
Because Fallout has always had bad plots but good stories.
When are we getting a 60 fps mod for consoles? :/
>>338457354
super duper super mutant mart obviously
the real question is why caps are used as currency on the east coast
there is nothing backing them like the water merchants on the west coast, there is no actual trade because there is zero semblance of civilization on the east coast, and there is zero production of anything aside from basic subsistence farming and scavenging for 210 years
>>338449085
>Both hero and villain should have moral complexities unless it's a myth, fable, or children's story.
Or you know reality.
>>338457586
Because of this
>>338457279
I really need to do that unmarked quest
>>338457586
The Pitt manufactures for the east. They take slaves instead of caps though. I wonder how that worked out lore wise.
I'd be evil for no reason.
Hell, that's my morality for pretty much and game with moral choices.
>>338451756
>How fucking stupid do you have to be to go up to the most dangerous woman in the state and go on about how little you think of women and how stupid and weak she is?
You can single handedly do ALL of the NCR's dirty work and they will still treat you like a rank and file. Obsidian is good, but not "write lines for every npc for every faction's reddit karma" level.
>>338455127
Or maybe they just didn't have the dev time due to a certain company rushing the shit out of them.
>>338457586
And, shit, bottlecaps became worthless in Fallout 2. I'm kind of annoyed they're still in use in New Vegas, but that's easy to write off as an exchange tool for the different currencies floating around in the Mojave.
Fallout 3 just wanted to shoehorn in every iconic visual from the earlier games, sense be damned.
>>338458021
I've never played the original 2 games (planning to get them during the summer sale), and was what do they start using as currency instead of caps? Paper money like the NCR does in NV?
>>338458184
ncr dollars
>>338458184
The NCR becomes a nation and starts to print it's own money. Bottlecaps were only continually used because they were supported by the Hub and the Brahmin Barons.
>>338458264
So the same shit as in NV?
>>338454328
>The brotherhood of steel are nazis
How stupid do you gotta fucking be to say shit like that and not think that you said some stupid shit
>>338458184
Yes, those paper money were initially backed up by Gold which the Brotherhood of Steel managed to melt to slag during their war with the NCR hence why people fall back to bottlecaps as the water-backed NCR paper money becomes much less valuable. It's also why Legion coins are the most valuable because they are made from Gold.
>>338458021
>I'm kind of annoyed they're still in use in New Vegas, but that's easy to write off as an exchange tool for the different currencies floating around in the Mojave.
Vegas isn't a NCR territory though. I'm pretty sure that caps are used by house and the rest of Vegas, meaning that NCR currency isn't really worth shit in the Mojave. There's a NPC in Sloan that talks about this I think.
>>338458308
>>338458365
These two are good answers, thanks. All of this sounds like actual well thought out lore, which makes me excited to play Fallouts 1 and 2, unlike the shit shows that are 3 and 4. Thanks a lot.
>>338458184
Caps were used in Fallout 1. By the time of Fallout 2, NCR started minting gold coins.
>>338458184
>>338458264
>>338458327
It's coins.
>>338458184
Coins mostly. NCR didnt rule the Hub at first and even when they did it was better to impose their own shit so the Hub fatcats couldnt simply them over from the inside like the irl USA. Sadly? This emded up happening anyway but with Cattle Ramcher owners rather than Water Purifier landlords
Plus NCR had the rival governments of Vault City and New Reno to deal with at the time
>>338449679
I mean when you think about it, Sole Survivor is either Military or married to Military
>Vault 87 built for FEV testing on the east coast
>Built five years before FEV even existed, on the opposite coast
>Built two years before the pan virion immunity project even existed, which was the precursor to FEV
What did Bethesda mean by this
>>338453992
They really dropped the ball with these guys
There's little customization with the soldiers, there's like 3 related NPCs, the quests are all radiant shit and you don't even really command them.
I've been playing Fallout 2 and I think I lost motivation for playing. I got onto Navarro to get the vertibird plans, now I'm in San Francisco and kind of lost motivation. How do I rekindle it? Playing 10 luck unarmed jinxed
>>338452539
Well Ceasar does have a brain tumor
>>338449712
Not bad. My only recommendation is to try and raise your luck skill as high as you can get it. You'll need 8 PE and 8 AG and 80% Small Guns to get the Sniper perk. It works by conducting a Luck roll every time you shoot and rewarding you with a critical hit for a successful roll. 10 Luck guarantees a critical hit every shot; almost breaks the game but you'll be unstoppable.
I fucking hate how pumped I was playing 3. I knew very little about Fallout with the exception of the commercials for 3 and I was like 'I like exploring'. After playing 1 and 2 years later, 3 is almost embarrassing. I still appreciate it because I enjoyed it at the time, but it seems like Bethesda just took everything unique about the Fallout world and threw it into a game with little sense behind the meaning. I have mad respect for you dudes who know the lore front and back, by the way.
>>338458996
>I have mad respect for you dudes who know the lore front and back, by the way.
Thanks. While everyone was out partying, fucking and bonding in my high school years I was playing Fallout.
>>338452539
Ironically, despite the name, Fallout Bible is not necessarily "canon"
>>338444872
If you take the time to look into it each faction is pretty convincing.
>>338458540
Literally an excuse to have Super Mutants in Fallout 3.
And they couldn't even make that right.
>>338458996
I had pretty much the same experience, except my opinion changed after playing New Vegas and understanding what Fallout was supposed to be. I finally got around to 1 and 2 last year and loved them.
BIG IRON
>kill child in Fallout one
>Chris Avellone himself hunts you down nonstop with an overleveled gank squad at his back
>they respawn immediately and start hunting you again
This is how you do it right. Allows you do the realistic thing while making it clear the devs themselves dont approve of your actions, therefore no bad PR
>>338458996
>I fucking hate how pumped I was playing 3
Don't be. I had a lot of fun with it and I'm a Fallout purist. You just got to pretend it's a fanfiction game and most of its flaws disappear.
>>338459224
tim cain is allowed to be wrong, just like he is about the bible
>>338458021
>And, shit, bottlecaps became worthless in Fallout 2
Then NCR's gold stockpile got blown up by the BoS, so they became valuable again since they're in limited supply and the NCR didnt have anything to back their cash, so it makes sense in NV
but yeah it makes no sense in FO3
>>338459502
Killing Myron in Fallout 2 can get you the childkiller title. It's the little things that make the first two games great.
>>338459529
Interesting, I'll give it a try. Actually sounds fun when you say it like that.
>>338459683
Also, the kid you can have in Fallout 2 with the daughter of the mob boss in Reno is mentioned as the new mob boss in Fallout NV.
So how exactly is Tenpenny "wealthy"?
Besides squatting in a tower in the middle of nowhere.
It kinda feels like Emil just threw in the detached wealthy Brit aristocrat trope without a single care about explaining it or justifying it. There is no such thing as old world "wealth" anymore.
And how did he get to D.C. from Europe? Wouldn't transcontinental trade and travel in the post-apocalypse be a pretty fucking big deal? And it can't be a function of wealth because Moriarty also traveled to D.C. from Europe as a child.
And where in the name of unholy fuck did Dukov come from?
>>338459529
That was my approach to Fallout 4. I hope someone makes an alternate start mod so I can just ignore the awful story.
>Every last fucking one of them are unapologetically evil for no good reasons.
Seems like you never played Fallout.
>>338459924
The commonly accepted thing is that everyone in britain spends their time making boats to GTFO.
Tenpenny came here young, possibly with some of his old world fortune (gold still has value) and some mercs, fucked around for a bit, claimed the building, and now spends his days getting sauced and being evil.
>dukov
reasons
>>338459924
Dukov? Ukraine? Russia? Why the fuck is he even in the game?
He gives you free booze and that shitty transport the hooker quest. Doesn't even have any valuable loot.
>>338460152
He's one of the guys holding one of the keys for the T-51d Power Armor
>>338460152
My biggest issue is that there's a groups of raiders down the street, but apparently he's such a notoriously good shot that he leaves his doors unlocked and doesn't shoot trespassers on sight unless they're brandishing
>>338460226
Ah shit, forgot about that. My bad.
>tfw no clownshoes
>>338460360
me on the right
Villains shouldn't have to be morally gray, however there should be a REASON for them to be the way they are. Just as Sawyer said, Caesar isn't "morally gray," he's pretty evil by any moral standard. However he has his reasons, and Caesar's Legion makes sense by the established logic in game. So it's more about giving villains viable backgrounds that make sense in the setting rather than one-dimensional caricatures.
>>338451756
>you think of women and how stupid and weak she is?
I didn't interpret it as a comment against you. Tbh it sounded like a back-handed compliment, like when /pol/ says "he's pretty alright, for a nigger."
If anything, the bad parts are you being unable to compete in the arena no matter your status and the implication that the legionaries want to rape your character.
Though from a role-playing perspective I don't see why it's a problem. Not every choice should be viable for every character. Legion doesn't have to be "nicer" so it makes sense for a homogay or female Courier to join it.
>>338457681
>Avellone consults the wiki after reading but is a fanfic author at best
>Bethesda uses a wiki but doesn't read anything besides that
Is that what the image is trying to say?
>>338446643
>real Fallout 3
This is retarded given that Interplay were the ones who fucked everything up, Bethesda just bought the IP. If the Fallout lore didn't even matter to Interplay themselves why are people so butthurt about Bethesda?
>>338460523
>>338450991can we stop fucking bringing up /pol/ any time someone says something vaguely right wing please? i don't want the SJW vs POL bullshit to infect these threads as well
>>338460487
>rather than one-dimensional caricatures.
m8, one of the ways to gain fame with them is by destroying a little slave girl's doll for no reason. They're anti-fun mustache-twirlers.
>>338456717
Caesar isnt even a villain
>>338460854
>They're anti-fun mustache-twirlers.
It's just bantz with the boyz at worst. It's not even evil, it's a calculated movie to further crush the spirit of a future cook, cleaner, and baby incubator.
>>338460679
Interplay legitimately fucked up in a few places in Fallout 2, owned up to it and set the record straight.
Bethesda took the lore into a back ally and raped its asshole at knifepoint then act like nerds when anyone calls them out on it.
>>338460854
Isn't it pretty established that Caesar and Vulpes are the only ones with half a brain in the Legion though? Sallow is using the Legion to rebuild civilization as fucked up as his methods are, his problem is everyone else is retarded. Which is pretty much why the Legion will die after Sallow dies.
>>338460776
I just used it as an easy way to explain what I mean. I suppose I could've used "when racists" but then you'd get people butthurt at you anyway.I browse /pol/ all the time so it's the first thing I thought of.
>>338461005
>Fallout 2
Don't forget Fallout Tactics and Fallout BoS. "Old school" Fallout fans ironically are ignoring half the Fallout lore at this point.
Reminder that this is the type of guy handling the Fallout series
>>338461162
Those games were never considered canon, even when released. Now they're barely even remembered.
>>338461052
>are the only ones with half a brain in the Legion though?
If the captured centurion is at all representative of the education levels of higher rank legionnaires, then they've plenty of people with brains, they're just laden with intentionally laden with caeser's propaganda. If anything the issue is there are plenty of smart people, but most of them live lives where they can't really flex their thinking skills unless they're in command.
>>338461205
Wow what a piece of shit.
>>338461052
>his problem is everyone else is retarded
But he intentionally keeps them retarded so they know no other way and follow him.
>>338461471
Also, most of the people on the Legion were tribals with little skill and knowledge.
>>338461162
>Don't forget Fallout Tactics and Fallout BoS. "Old school" Fallout fans ironically are ignoring half the Fallout lore at this point.
Not even Bethesda considers Fallout BoS canon.
>>338461162
Fallout Shelter is more canon than those two games.
>>338461052
Just listening to repeating dialogue, legion troops seem more educated than the average NCR conscript. Certainly not tribals or farm boys. I wonder what Legionnaire training looks like. Do they all actually learn latin, or is that an officer thing...
>>338461568
>little skill
I wouldn't say that. Living as a tribal you've gotta hunt and shit by what, 16? Fighting with other groups? Running/walking everywhere? I'd say they were plenty skilled but not conventionally educated. Specially compared to NCR's farm boys and city slickers.
>>338461135i see your point, i just don't wanna see irl politics in these threads
>>338447502
I wonder if his impression of overt misogyny isn't retroactive, having jumped on the SJW train. Did he ever voice an opinion on GG? I know he was completely unapologetic about using rape as a plot device in NV.
>>338446345
>not being an autistic Obsidian drone and knowing how they fucked up their development of the Legion
>>338461205
>It has INSERT WACKY NON-REALISTIC ELEMENT HERE therefore it's reasonable to bypass basic, well understood laws of the world
>Super mutants exist therefore it's okay to violate Fallout's in-universe logic
Jesus fucking Christ I hate this argument. Having a non-realistic element in your universe is not a good reason to go around breaking the laws of physics and shit just because you think it's funny, fucking kill yourself Pete.
>>338462501
please for the love of fuck see >>338462262going down this road will only lead to retarded FO4 shitposters/trolls saying "hurr NV is le SJW game" in every thread, with inevitable shitstorms instead of comfy discussions
>>338462828
What unrealistic stuff is this even referring to?
I'm not retarded so I didn't buy FO4.
>>338462501
>using rape as a plot device in NV.
What? All I can think of is the lesbian sniper chick, and that's a comparatively good portrayal of rape and it's effects.
>>338463089
There's a kid that survived since the nukes went off by living in a fridge and turned into a ghoul. Somebody on the writing team thought it'd be a great idea to implement that even though it was universally criticized when Indiana Jones did it, and New Vegas already mocked it. That guy went on Twitter and asked Pete Hines about it, and he pulled that "well super mutants are a thing so yeah you could survive a nuke in a fridge" argument out.
>>338463295
>>338463089
Also, Jet was made in Fallout 2 but got mentioned in a pre-war terminal in a vault in Fallout 4
>>338463294
that's the one. he got shit for it because 'omg rape is always bad how can you put such triggering content in ur game omg'. his response was essentially 'rape is part of war, I'm not gonna gloss over that like it isn't a thing in my post-apocalyptic wasteland setting, that would be retarded' and defended his portrayal of it, which was a pretty good one.
One thing I hated about Bethesda Fallout is that they go overboard on their whacky 50's theme and make it seem like time stopped completely in the 50's.
They actively retconned all the energy weapons into being clunky shit that looks like electrical engineering experiments instead of mass produced ergonomic weaponry used by professional armies and civilian consumers.
FO4 even got rid of the AK pattern weapons and any other "near modern" weapon examples and instead gave us god awful pipe weapons everywhere. The "assault rifle" in FO4 is a damn WW1 machine gun, further enforcing their "nothing after the 50's" rule.
>>338463920
This
>>338463295
>>338463089
Not to mention ghouls need food to live (can't make life without energy to supply it, even if you're a ghoul), and there almost certainly wouldn't be enough food in a single fridge with a child inside for 200 years of sitting there.
>>338465147
Ghouls absolutely require water also.
If you snatch the water chip from Necropolis without fixing their water pump the place dries up and the ghouls die off.
>>338463920
Oh look, it's this fucking "I spell wacky with an h" faggot again.
>>338465649
I'm not really following your arguments anon.
Maybe next time you post you should have a little content.
>>338463294
there's also the human smuggler in the Aerotech Park sidequest,St. James, who is a rapist pedophile, as well as the fiends they sell to, Driver Nephi/Cook-Cook/Motor Runner
and probably other stuff I'm not remembering, but there's multiple instances of rape in NV as a plot point yeah
In Fallout 1 (2?) some chick who's the wife of a magnate cries false rape on you if you don't fuck her, and you can get her pregnant
>>338465147
Wait, he was locked in the fridge the whole time? From >>338463295
I thought he just "survived" by staying in the fridge.
Sounds like they wanted to have a kid act as a mirror to the protag but couldn't figure out a good way to do it.
>>338465897
I agree with your post.
You are just a relic of a dead age and need to either join it or get with the times. Spelling wacky with an h in every Fallout thread just makes people that hate FO4 look bad.
>>338466008
No, he was locked in a fridge the entire time. And we're talking about a standard fridge that he barely fits in. You get the quest by hearing him shouting out for help. The quests ends with you either selling him to some creep who shows up offering money, or finding his family who has also been ghoulified living in their old house and they live happily ever after.
>>338466040
"Whacky" with an H is a legitimate alternate spelling. Slang, if you will.
Now lets talk about Fallout in a Fallout thread instead of pretending to be retarded pedants for the sake of contrarian shitposting.
>>338466008
yep, the whole time
>http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Billy_Peabody
>Billy is the ghoulified child of Carol Peabody and Matt Peabody who hid in a fridge to protect himself from the bombs dropped during the Great War. When Billy entered the fridge he was stuck due to the fridge's locking mechanism not featuring an interior handle. The fridge, in which Billy has been trapped for two hundred and ten years,
210 years with nothing to eat or drink or BREATHE (airtight seals on fridges) and only limited room for movement, yet is still able to walk around as normal, with absolutely no explanation
Bethesda writers ladies and gentlemen
>>338444872
frank horrigan was just lawful evil
he a good boy and din du nuffins :-DDD
>>338466227
Yeah, well, Paul Brians says you're a faggot and gay.
>>338444872
>Evil
>Implying Caesar wasn't right
>Implying the Legion wasn't saving the wasteland
>"villain"
