What the hell were they thinking? Do they want to prevent a competitive scene from forming? If they don't fix this it will loom over this game for the entirety of its life and that may be shorter than they hope. Rather than watering the flower of competition they put it in a pot filled with pebbles and toss it in the basement. What a shame.
But why? What reason do they have? What were they thinking?
You know, I will defend to the death 60fps for most games, but you are a colossal autist.
>>338192680
It is actually a problem though.
>>338192473
Call me a casual, call me a shill. Do what you want but at least I'll have fun still.
I remember a time when all a game had to be was fun with the lads. But people like you perpetuate this tooth and nail culture where if a game isn't GOAT it's not worth playing.
That's the twitch and YouTube culture, the ones who are incapable of just enjoying a game. Have fun with that, mate.
>>338192985
That's the thing though. Overwatch is such an awesome game but this little detail can be so frustrating and be seriously detrimental to a potential pro scene.
You jump out of the way and suddenly you are dead for no reason and the killcam shows you that the server never fully processed that move so you got it. Fast-paced games like this need to have proper servers or things like that will make the entire affeir very unfun very fast.
20 clock?
>>338193657
you playing bloodbourne?
>>338193657
It's 20 Bong. She's from GB, they refer to time in a special way there.
>>338192473
Who cares the average human reponse time is 1 ticks
(spoiler) Im kidding
>>338193657
>>338194003
It's "20 Ow threads could have been prevented in the last hour if they already would fuck off to /vg/ with them."
So Op - what were you thinking making another one?
client tick rate ≠ server tick rate
>>338192473
>Do they want to prevent a competitive scene from forming?
I really REALLY hope so, I really don't want CS/Moba kiddies ruining this game
>>338193470
>potential pro scene.
Must a game be "pro"? Are there so many autistic faggots that considers ALL multiplayer game must be "pro"?
Whenever people complains in /v/ how games aren't fun anymore, look at OP and other "pro gamers" whining at how fun games aren't "pro" enough. Screencap this, in 5 years we'll see "pro" single player RPGs when this kind of autism spreads.
>>338192473
>Do they want to prevent a competitive scene from forming?
I hope so
it killed TF2
>>338192473
CS:GO has a competitive scene and its netcode is far worse than Overwatch's
>>338194284
>Must a game be "pro"?
No, but people are already complaining about this problem and hardcore OW players will be annoyed by this the most. Casuals may lay the foundation for the game by buying it at the beginning but it's the dedicated players that value skill that keep the game alive and let it thrive over years. But only if those players are supported by the developers. In the end nobody wants to play a game where you regularly die because the game doesn't function properly, be it casual or hardcore gamer.
>>338192473
Comp servers run at 64 you fucking autist>caring this much about muh tick
Kill yourself
>>338194552
>In the end nobody wants to play a game
4chan indoctrinated kiddies everyone
>>338192473
Hey csgo what are you doing on /v/? Being wrong about tick rate and other things?
>>338194552
Im playing overwatch in the gosugamers league.
Most of us are playing this game because it's new and theres fucking money in it compared to no money in tf2
I dont give a flying fuck how casual it is. That just makes it easier to play, and easier to get money
>>338194289
Casuals killed TF2
The 'competitive scene' for TF2 barely even a thing
>>338194663
So if I only wanna play casual mode can I pay less because I will only be on the shitty servers?
No? Huh.
>>338194819
Find a team and play comp then if you care this much you god damn autist
>>338192473
Got to rank 30 in the beta.
I'm always hearing shit about tickrate on this game but I noticed nothing out of the ordinary while I was playing.
>>338194284
The people making the game wanted it to have a pro scene moron.
>>338194913
There's nothing wrong it. People just go muh tick rate because they suck at the game and need an excuse to feel better.
>>338194913
Then you aren't good at FPS games. You got to level 30, not rank. Idc what they call it, if it is gained by just putting more time in than others it is a level. Rank implies skill.
>>338194897
>biggest game developer in the world with most resources tosses a great game on the market with the intention to have it become a competitive game
>many players complain about shitty online
>insult those players because they should just give away their money and be happy they can have the game
Okay.
>>338194289
>competitive FPS
Even CS:GO is a laugh. No one cares except for other people who sink 2,000 hours into a game.
If it's not a "fite me 1v1" game, who cares.
>>338195165
Nobody's forcing you to buy it, dickhead.
>>338194819
More like you just won't be good enough to tell the difference so it doesn't matter.
Personally I hope they upgrade it, but I also don't think that for casual play it's even really a problem.
>>338194913
You're probably not good enough to notice it. 95% of players aren't.
And it doesn't matter for the pros, because the custom games already have 60 tick and that's where any self-respecting pro does their training.
It's a mild, non-issue that will be fixed in a few months.
>>338195143
So tick rates doesn't effect gameplay? I guess framerate doesn't matter either, might as well lock the game to 30.
>>338195256
I never said anybody was forced to do anything. I just put out a valid complaint and you get defensive like a little kid whose favorite Power Ranger was just insulted.
>>338192473
what is 20 tick
I used to play with 200-250 ping all the time because shitty Alaska internet so 20 tick really doesn't bother me
>>338195389
go back to the 90s.
any game that balances via cool downs is not worth playing. it is never fun to wait. if you argue strategy then the better way to do it is via resource management not time
>>338194289
probably because tf2 was obviously never intending as a competitive game and the restrictions placed in competitive modes further dilute an already bland game experience.
>>338195409
>I used to eat literal shit all the time, so eating shitty food doesn't bother me.
So you came into this thread to add what? Nothing?
>Implying OW netcode isn't a problem, especially when you play with some high ping fuckers
>Impying OW netcode is as bad as shitposters are making it out to be
>Implying anyone besides some tech nerds and hardcore mlg kiddies will actually care about the tick rate and normies even know what it's about
OW tickrate is one of the things shitposters are ruining for everyone, if every discussion about it wouldn't end in a shill battle there would actually be a chance that reasonable complaints would be hear and fixed.
>>338195305
>implying fps and tick rate are comparable
Stop looking for an excuse just because you suck at the game. Show me one example of the 20 tick rate causing an issue. Go ahead I'm waiting
>>338195512
Alternatives. Do your resources come back with time? Then it is functionally identical to stacked cooldowns.
If it's something that is extremely powerful and you can just use it 8 times in a row immediately with no downside because you stocked up, that would be exceedingly unbalanced in a game about team synergy and pushing - you're essentially asking for the system to be identical but with a different paint on it, or changed to just be an entirely different game. I'm guessing you're looking for the latter, so why bother saying anything at all.
>>338193470
Once "e-sports" become more than small local tournaments, it hurts the game.
You do know they have a 60 tick option in the custom game tab that's implemented for tournament play, right?
>>338195512
Why not both
>>338195883
And ranked?
>>338195818
I fucking rubberband like a motherfucker in Overwatch. My up and download speeds are great, every other game runs fine. Overwatch is the only one giving me problems.
There are so many times I just freeze in place and "wake-up" dead.
>>338195832
http://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20743615636
A ton of people describing exactly that problem.
>Making games for the competitive scene
Worked well for SFV :^)
>>338192473
Can someone explain to me, a person with 100ms ping, how 20 tick rate would affect my nigger internet?
>>338194174
It's 20 Bong mate.
It's going to be 60 both ways in competitive anyway.
In casual mode you'll have to deal with the occasional bs death. I hope they do realize that it's important for every mode.
>>338196237
sfv owns noohb
>>338196073
I played at 9-14 ms most times in the beta.
Only when i joined servers where somebody with an abysmal ping was present i experienced the problems you encountered.
I usually left the match and the next one was ok.
Up and Download speed =/= ping. You should enable the options to show net stats in every online game to actually know what's going on.
I don't say there are no problems with the netcode. there are but all the shitflinging because 20tick is the hottest new anti OW meme wont help because it drowns all reasonable voices of complaint with them.
Ow has a problem with giving people with shitty ping an advantage due to its 20 tick playerside 60 tick serverside netcode solution.
But if you are in a match with people that have similar ping to you the netcode works ok.
>>338196472
No it's not, it's 23 bong.
>>338192473
>gaming
>competitive
Pvp in games is for kids. If you are older than 12 and think games are "competitive" you have never worked in the free market.
>>338196073
Honestly that severe a problem certainly has nothing to do with tickrate, and most likely nothing to do with your up/down, or Blizzard's servers.
I would guess this is either a routing issue, or something on your local network being weird. Unfortunately I don't know the IP addresses of whatever OW servers your game would be trying to use, so I can't give you a way to troubleshoot.
I guess I'd try to make sure you have your IP as static, using a wired connection, maybe make sure you've got whatever ports OW uses (again, I'm not sure) open or just DMZ temporarily, and if the problem persists, maybe temporarily swap over to google's DNS servers and see if that helps.
Shit routing is a surprisingly common issue with backbone networks.
50ms updates isn't that bad but why not 30 or 50 Hz at least? seems pretty weird
>>338192473
I thought the 20 ticks thing wasn't true?
Either way, you're fooling yourself if you think that's the only thing that would prevent a competitive scene from forming naturally (it being shit and lacking depth are bigger problems than 20 ticks), or if you think Blizzard won't just force a competitive scene to form by injecting it with money.
>>338192473 >>338193470 >>338194663 >>338195305
> So tick rates doesn't effect gameplay?
It doesn't. Not until it get's down to about 10 tps or even less. Even then it's debate-able. Ping has a higher impact. And bottom line, player skill is the true determining factor.
That frag around the corner? You set it up before you ever go around the corner. Position, speed, knowledge of level, of opponent, of loadout, of classes, of game in general. In the main, over the entire match, who's getting fragged is determined before the first rockets are ever fired. It's determined by skill, and not by framerate or tick rate or any other autistic metric.
This may effect the twitchiest of twitchy pro players. But fuck them. No-one else will even notice. I doubt even most pro players could blind test discern when the server was running at 20 or 60 tps. Anyone who could is better being kicked from the tournament.
>>338195772
Thats some pretty big bullshit, I ran to a few things like that as tracer due to the tick rate
>>338196510
But nobody own SF5
>>338195702
>having no alternative automatically makes it shit
your analogy is shit
>>338196725
>Pvp in games is for kids
what a fag. Have you never heard of sports or chess or anything?
>>338196896
the client sends updates at 60 Hz but receives updates at 20 Hz
>>338195832
Wait are you serious? They might as well be the same fucking thing. Same with the Hz of your screen. Are people playing PC games really this fucking retarded?
What exactly is a "tick"? I rarely if ever play shooters online so I have no idea.
>>338196896
It is true, but far less of an issue than most people make it out to be. It results in stuff like >>338195772 where extremely small time differences can get 'rolled back' in your view when playing with someone with a slower ping.
The actual tick rate is 60 updates per second from client to server, and 20 updates per second from server to each client in the game.
I have only ever noticed it consistently while playing Tracer, because she is really fast and relies on that ms to ms gameplay. I will often find killcams where the enemy kills me before I blinked, when I got it off and got around a corner in my screen. Shit's annoying, I hope they adjust it, but it's hardly game breaking.
>>338196931
>t. blizzshill
>>338196253
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EwaW2iz4iA
Tick means how many times per second data packages are sent out. More is obviously better.
Let's take an extreme example. Let's say tick is 1. One package sent per second. Really slow. Unrealisticall slow, but it's just an example.
Tick 1 (t=0)--0.1--0.2--0.3--0.4--0.5--0.6--0.7--0.8--0.9--1(Tick 2 t=1s)
If your opponent had better ping than you and you would see each other at the same time, this would happen: He sees you at 0.2 and shoots you at 0.4, on his screen you die. You see him at 0.5 and you kill him at 0.8. You see him die. At second 1 (Tick 2) you both die at the same time because that's when the server processes everything between the ticks and what happens between 2 tick is considered to be simultaneously. Lower tick means more precise timing.
whats actually going to 'kill the competitive scene' is that casuals won't find the game fun once they realize that there's no 1v1 class parity, and they have to switch to sniper every time a bastion is on defense
>>338196931
But it does. I died 4 times in beta because of tick. Using my q on my screen to attempt to dodge something and then the killcam not showing that same action i saw.
>>338194552
>hardcore OW players will be annoyed by this the most
Spoiler: Blizzard did not design any aspect of this game for the "hardcore audience"
>>338197072
>I had no other choice but to eat shit, so I don't want you to call it shit cus it hurts my feelings.
Get off the internet kid.
>>338192473
Based Unreal Tournament is 60 minimum with option to bring the tick rate way past 100. Shows which game actually puts effort into competitiveness.
>>338197186
Bait wanted me to give a real answer, gud job have a (you)
>>338196725
People are putting up millions to organize "e-sport" competitions. People are competing for it. Your opinion on the matter doesn't mean anything.
>>338197498
Spoiler, they thought they were though.
Bigger spoiler, Blizzard are all hacks.
>>338197406
>Lower tick means more precise timing.
I meant higher. Higher is more precise.
>>338197514
still more shitty analogies. A+
>>338197186
>Are people playing PC games really this fucking retarded?
Yes, this whole tick thing started because an idiot cs player misinterpreted it and it spread like wildfire.
>>338192473
It's a game for casuals, low tick rate, easy aiming, high powered press Q to
win ultimates that charge up on their on.
Blizzard makes games for preteens and Midwestern housewives.
Good, fuck competitive gaming. The less people who dedicate their lives to playing a video game ''''''''''professionally'''''''''' the better. That very same pseudo competitive culture killed TF2
>>338197258
Its also noticeable when trying to use Mcree's roll as an active dodge. It will happen a lot.
>>338193470
I literally hope that there is no esports or pro scene. Most of my favorite games have been ruined by esports, I don't need another one I have a lot of fun with ruined too
>>338197258
>extremely small time differences
Some heroes like Tracer rely on those tiny time differences. If you are in a battle and you wanna wait till you are at 30 life or lower before you rewind it often backfires. If the timing is off because of the game it can happen that you die really often even though on your screen your timing was on point. Fast games like OW need high enough tick exactly for things like this.
>>338192985
I read the first line and thought the rest of the lines would rhyme
I was severely disappointed
>>338194289
TF2 was killed by hats and too many weapons as well as F2P. They didn't change up enough in updates; the base game was still the same and was bound to get boring sometime.
>>338197650
Who thought they were? "Hardcore" players? What point of the ridiculous Overwatch image and marketing could make someone think that?
Fuck Blizzard, but fuck autists whining about this shit. This is like people complaining the latest G-rated Disney movie didn't have enough mature themes and sexual violence
>>338192473
Overwatch has a low skill cap anyway.
Besides, esports in 2016 is all low skill cap games. It's not about skill anymore, it's about how popular your game is. Low skill cap = larger audience = more money.
>>338197229
Generally the smallest unit of time the game supports. When time ticks forward.
It applies to lots of games.
They are probably talking about tickrate which is something for multiplayer games and I never really got into the minutiae of that because I never believed that a bunch of teenagers knew anything about netcode compared to the developers, so I always rolled with the default settings.
>>338197850
I suppose that makes sense, his dodge roll is extremely quick - didn't really think about it because I kinda suck at McCree and didn't play him much. I've also seen it on Pharah, died before boosting into the air on the killcam, in my screen I watched my corpse fall 4 stories.
>>338197903
Absolutely yes. In the long run it does not have the hugest impact on the outcome of a game, but the lower tickrate is very frustrating when you're playing those really quick characters that rely on extremely interactions. I like Tracer a lot and that's one of the few things that frustrates me when playing her.
>>338198075
This is surprisingly true, it really helps a new thing take off when everyone can easily understand what's happening on screen. Especially a game as fast as this, it moves too fast to let the casters explain everything all the time like League or Dota. Even Dota often moves too fast for a caster to be able to explain what's happening while it's happening.
>>338197906
>Call me a casual, call me a shill. Do what you will but at least gameplay is passable
>I remember a time when gaming with friends was fine. But people like you always go boohoo
>That's the twitch and youtube culture, the ones who bitch and act like a vulture. Be great, mate
>>338197461
then how about you stop living on the fucking moon and live somewhere civilized where latency isn't an issue you paste eater
>>338198075
>Falling for the low skillcap meme
In my opinion the low skillcap shilling is bullshit.
People seem to mistake low skillcap with easily accessible.
But one has nothing to do with the other.
Everyone who shilled the low skillcap meme i know personally either didn't play the game or totally sucked at it.
>>338198374
Latency and tick are two completely different things.
>>338192473
Explain what the fuck a tick rate is a dumb ass like me
>>338198651
see here
>>338197406
>>338198058
They as in blizzard, they said it was going for a competitive scene. Do you even pay attention to gaming news or do you just come here and look at the fucking pictures?
>>338198553
Nope. It actually has a low skill cap, probably even lower than CS, which is why this is going to be a huge, huge game. Accessibility has nothing to do with it.
>>338192473
>>338192473
>competitive scene
>video games
>>338192473
no one but blizzard treats their shit as competitive material anymore. SC2 proved that.
>>338198553
I think it's accurate to call many of the heroes low skill floor and ceiling. What this does for the game is move the focus on to more meta-focused skills, like positioning, and teamwork. Mercy is not a difficult hero to effectively function as, all of the skill with her is in knowing where to be to appropriately react to enemy aggression, your team's offense, and not ever die, despite being the biggest target, so that she can revive 3+ people and turn a fight completely around. None of these really have much to do with Mercy herself, the hardest part about her is aiming her pistol, something she won't even be doing most the time.
On the flip side, Widowmaker, McCree, 76, and Tracer are all fairly simple to pick up, but since they have hitscan weapons and good range (in Tracer's case her 'range' being her absurd mobility) there is a lot of room to grow and be much more of a presence than say, Mei, who's delayed projectile/tiny range and no mobility make her only very useful for her ability to zone.
>>338198721
Thanks
>>338192680
>60 fps
Fucking pleb
Too bad, there's already a competitive scene since custom games run at 60
Just delete your thread
>>338192473
ohhhh....
I didn't understand for a bit but then I finally got it.
CONSOLES.
Right? This is a console garbage problem? K. Enjoy the couch experience you wanted so badly.
>>338192985
>Call me a casual, call me a shill. Do what you want but at least I'll have fun still.
Poetic
>>338192473
every blizzard games has a tick rate of 20 and it hasn't prevented any kind of competitive scene.
The fact people will watch others play the game will be more important in forming a competitive scene given how things are these days.
![a86txK9h[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/IzEgIb5.jpg "a86txK9h[1].jpg")
>>338192751
>>338192473
For the billionth time:
All servers simulate at 60Hz
All clients simulate at at least 60Hz, up to whatever your FPS is
In casual queue the client updates the server at 60Hz (which would be pointless if the server were actually simulating at 20Hz) and the server updates the client at 20Hz.
In ranked the server updates the client at 60Hz.
No, hit detection is not client-side even on hitscan weapons. It is 100% server-side. Hitboxes extend beyond visual models and it appears that interpolation stretches them instead of moving them off of the physical model (a change I, personally, love because moving the hitboxes off the model is fucking retarded)
See pic.
>>338199185
No it's not a console exclusive problem, stop being so fucking stupid and wanting to shitpost so badly for once in your life
>>338198930
>no one but blizzard treats their shit as competitive material anymore
you mean everyone but blizzard right?
>>338199312
So far no Blizzard game relied on that kind of precise timing. SC 2 is a slow RTS so it would work fine even with tick 10 but OW needs much high tick than that.
>>338192473
I love this thing, its yet another reason for autists to avoid this game freeing it up from the shit they tend to bring with them.
>>338199346
>. It is 100% server-side.
In technicality yes. But they also implement a "shooter decides" policy. So unless specific things happen, if it hits on your screen, it will hit on theirs.
Also
>one is 60 even though the other is 20
That's still 20 at the end of the day anon. A connection is only as fast as it's slowest link.
>>338199553
>A connection is only as fast as it's slowest link.
So what you're saying is third world yankee internet is going to be shit?
>>338198972
This is basically right. It's a low skill cap strategy game, kinda like a MOBA.
https://youtu.be/JCbDX8lpVzU?t=1m23s
As you can see in this video. Even with a hard locking aimbot, this guy isn't able to pull his team to victory. The core design of this game prohibits the players (or in this case, an aimbot) impact and influence on the game.
>>338196725
>think games are "competitive" you have never worked in the free market.
>everyone going on about 20 tick
>no one talking about the awful sound design
Basically they designed a game with such horrible aural clutter that they had to create a system that picks and chooses what you can actually hear. So you want to hear that guy sneaking up on you while you're in a fight? Fuck you says blizzard.
Friendly reminder that hating on competitive games is the very reason games like Call of Duty are so popular
>>338198560
>Latency and tick are two completely different things.
Yes, and I think you misunderstand which one is the root of your problems. A 60 tick server refreshes its state every 16ms. A 20 tick server does this every 48ms. So the observable difference between a 60tick and a 20tick server is 32ms, which is equal to two frames. Top Street Fighter 4 players would spend hours in training mode trying to commit their muscle memory to the timing required for 2-frame link combos, and they'd still drop them all the time in competition.
On the other hand, I am certain that your ping, and your opponent's ping, are both considerably higher than 32ms. Until you manage to get an internet connection with only 16 ping (equal to one frame), and all your opponents do the same, it won't be the tick rate that's getting you killed.
>>338197258
>Less of an issue
That stick could have resulted in a kill or even two. A living McCree and Zenyatta vs a dead one is potentially game changing.
There is never any good reason for a game to utilize anything lower than 60. 120/144 should be competitive setting.
>>338197406
>>338198721
>>338199089
This is absolutely wrong, that anon is conflating multiple different netcode features as a single number.
Tick rate is also know as simulation rate. It is the number of times per second that the server simulates the game state.
There are also two separate rates that are only partially related to tick, which I will call update rate and command rate.
The update rate is the rate at which the server updates the client. The lower this rate, the more the client has to interpolate positions, meaning the view of the user is less and less accurate compared to the server.
Command rate is the rate at which the client updates the server with the user's position and behavior. The lower this rate the more delay there will be between the user firing his weapon or changing direction and the server recognizing this action.
Everything after anon says "If your opponent had better ping..." is total bullshit that I'm sure he's convinced himself is accurate because he has no concept of the logistics of netcode and the difference between client-side vs server-side hit detection, hitbox interp, etc.
>>338192473
honestly it might be a problem where fpses are inherently competitive, but they want to try to tone that down so normies can have fun without flat out losing.
sakurai had a similar problem with smash bros
>>338199828
Intentional. They don't want sweaty players being able to soundwhore too well.
>>338199905
Just check out this thread and see how many people have this problem. It's not some unicorn level rarity. It happens all the time. And those are just the people who posted about it over there.
>>338196103
>>338199905
Oh christ you're back again.
Ping time has nothing to do with the tick rate anon. Even if I've got 500 ping I'm still going to be sending packets at whatever the tick rate is. And they'll still be reaching me 20 times a second (assuming no loss)
>>338199404
what?
the only blizz game related tournaments that exists are at blizzcon. no one acts as if anything blizzard makes is esports material except for blizzard.
tf did you read?
>>338199346
This is incorrect on quite a few levels.
>>338197461
You sound like a 10 year accusing the computer of cheating.
You died because of you. If you had played better, you probably wouldn't have. Stop blaming pings and fps and tps and your mom's dog barking for the fact that you're just not that good.
>>338199553
>they implemented a "shooter decides" policy
No, they designed their netcode to favor the shooter. Based on what little testing was done this seems to have been accomplished with stretching hitboxes in movement and having static hitboxes be larger than the models.
>That's still 20 at the end of the day anon. A connection is only as fast as it's slowest link.
You're fucking retarded, anon.
Tick rate is not the same as update rates. The mere fact that the client updates the server at 60Hz REQUIRES the server to run at 60Hz.
Interpolation on the client is more than adequate under these conditions to accommodate the server updating the client at 20Hz.
You have no earthly clue what the fuck you are talking about.
>>338200168
>no one acts as if anything blizzard makes is esports material except for blizzard.
aren't there Hearthstone events at Dreamhack and other similar tournaments?
>>338197461
>there's a character that can press Q and kill you from across the screen without so much as looking at you
>you die dozens of fucking times per fucking round
>the "penalty" for death is literally 10 fucking seconds of waiting time, two characters are made to boost players back into combat, one fucking TELEPORTS them there
>each character has his own mobility options including a fucking JET ENGINE ON THE BACK OF THE TOUGHEST CHARACTER
>WAAAH I DIED FOUR TIMES BECAUSE OF TICK
go fuck yourself
>>338195170
>He doesn't realise how massive the csgo competitive scene has become
>>338199905
I've never understood the logic of dismissing sources of latency just because they're smaller than other forms of latency.
We should strive for the smallest amount of latency possible.
Did you ever play BF4 when it had 10tick? It was fucking horrible. But you could argue that it 'wasn't a big deal' just because your ping could be a bigger source of latency.
>>338200023
Reminds me of when they said they wouldn't increase the fov past like 80 or whatever it was at before. Although it still sucks
>no ultrawide support
>fov limited to the very specific limit of 103
>sound design fucks you
I'm surprised they don't limit frame rate to 60 to "avoid advantaging players"
>>338199653
Yep, MOBA is an apt comparison, it's designed intentionally so that no one player can feasibly win a game solo. There are a few characters who can do a LOT though.
>>338199916
In a competitive game sure, hell even in a high skill casual match maybe - but I think the overall takeaway is 'it's rarely an issue, and is most often just frustrating rather than game changing' - I sincerely hope they fix it, but right now the games that matter apparently have normal tick rate - I think even the ranked queue has 60 too, so it should just be casual quick matches that have this issue.
>>338200196
Please, elaborate.
I can't wait to hear your uninformed opinion
>>338193657
It's 20 Bong since she's british
>>338197258
Okay, so that's what was going on. I was wondering why I kept dying like that as Tracer but never really had a problem as other characters.
>>338200262
oh right, i forgot about shillstone.
you got me there anon. thats their one exception.
sc2 and HoTS are dead and wow lan shit only happens at blizzcon.
>>338199828
>enemy footsteps are as loud as fucking gunfire
theres some things you can argue but not the sound design
>>338194284
Well overwatch it's trying to force a competitive scene on this game like they did with hots. Esports don't need quality though, they just need prize payouts.
>>338200231
>The mere fact that the client updates the server at 60Hz REQUIRES the server to run at 60Hz.
That has nothing to do with anything.
If I shoot someone who should have been behind a corner because the weak tickrate that's coming towards me, then shooter decides says I'll hit him.
>Interpolation on the client is more than adequate under these conditions
This is a game where people can teleport
>>338199653
its almost like its designed to be a team based shooter
>>338200196
Just post the code already. The 0.5 A-presses guy can make 40 minute videos about this shit for free. I think you can scrouge together enough autists to satisfy the retards making these threads.
>>338200642
You really don't understand anything that was said, do you?
Hit detection is not client side.
>>338199828
The sound design has saved my ass so many times, what the fuck are you smoking
>>338200549
>enemy footsteps are as loud as fucking gunfire
Not when you're in a fight, it tunes those out and focuses only on the people who have either hit or been hit by previously. Footsteps only play on the top level outside of combat.
>hide behind wall, die out of nowhere
>killcam shows me I never hid behind wall
>use ability, die out of nowhere
>killcam shows me I never used the ability
>don't want the game to bullshit me with shitty tick rate
>get accused by people it's all my fault and I should just git gud
>>338200836
It'd save your ass a lot more if they didn't fuck with it. I played quake for a decade I know what good sound design should be like, and this omits so much information.
>>338192473
There sure as hell won't be any respectable competitive scene forming because the gameplay is shallow as fuck.
>>338201202
>what is LoL
>>338201276
>respectable
>>338200672
There are plenty of other team based shooters with high skill caps. In fact, I can't think of one that has a lower skill ceiling than Overwatch.
Shit, there's plenty of teamwork required in Clan Arena in Quake. It doesn't need roles, abilities, health values etc to promote team work.
Blizzard deliberately lowered the skill ceiling because it sells. Every design choice they've made with this game backs that up.
I can see why you're being sarcastic. I can see the investment you have in this game. The truth hurts, but it is the truth after all. Tough pill to swallow.
>>338201364
>its a "i think its bad therefore its bad" episode
>>338201364
>players earning bank
>huge playerbase
>popular as fuck
>not respectable
You don't have to like the game but come on, son
>>338200342
>Did you ever play BF4 when it had 10tick?
That's because 10tick IS horrible. It's 6 fucking frames between refreshes. The difference between a 60 tick server and a 10 tick server (80 ms), is much larger than the difference between a 60 tick server and a 20 tick server (32 ms). The first is likely larger than your ping, the second one isn't.
>>338200990
See, I have listed type issue with sound. What's weak as fuck are the hit indicators. So many times hit from above or behind, but no indicator and I get dropped.
>>338201428
It is an objective fact that it will be about 'respectable' as competitive checkers because of how low the skill ceiling is and how much of a visual clusterfuck the character design are for game focused so heavily on team.
>>338199829
Call of duty takes more skill than most of the games trying to pass themselves off as a "Competitive FPS" nowadays. Not saying CoD is particularly good or anything but it's miles ahead of shit like csgo or any shit blizzard will ever try to forcefeed their consumers as a "competive multiplayer game".
Nothing will ever top the magic that arena shooters like Quake 3 brought to the table.
>>338201663
Oh christ I forgot about that, that shit fucked me too.
I had to relearn so many of my basic fps instincts in this game because it fuck with so many different aspects.
>>338201376
quake is a game that was not made well but people played around it. Quake has flawssuch as low tickrate, ironicallybut the audience still considers it a very high-skill game because there are people who have been playing for 20 fucking years
now, after playing something for 20 years, the people who play quake expect other games to be instantly made with the same amount of time and exposure to the public and will get mad when a new game has new players instead of grizzled old veterans playing it from day 1.
>>338192473
>Overwatch
>Competitive
Not with that tickrate, all the auto-aim skills and the fucked up hitboxes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFOFv1lVY_g
>>338201510
No shit.
But again, why the magical 'it's lower than your ping so who cares' mentality?
>>338201376
in every single team based shooter, in a competitive environment
a single person can not carry the game
>>338201459
So I guess transformers is one of the most respectable movie every? How angry birds is the height of gaming classic?
>>338192473
custom games have 60 tickrate
>>338201846
Can't this whole video be summed up as 'hitboxes are about 6 inches wider on each side when using a projectile weapon as opposed to hitscan'? Given that you can dodge projectiles I don't see this as being a huge issue.
>>338192680
>Talking about FPS
>>338199828
Do you actually know what you're saying or are you just pressing buttons?
>>338201785
That's true to an extent, yes, once the game's been stripped of all the things the pros think are "cheap." The game devs craft the game to allow anyone to do well with killstreaks and the like. It's an "everyone's a winner" design that many games force to appeal to the players like some in this thread who are anti-competitive because they can't git gud.
>>338201916
You'd have to be delusional as hell if you think that's the norm, especially since most multiplier shooter don't make sure your character is an overspecialized crippled shit.
>>338201809
>now, after playing something for 20 years, the people who play quake expect other games to be instantly made with the same amount of time and exposure to the public and will get mad when a new game has new players instead of grizzled old veterans playing it from day 1.
Because we've spent that much time we know what to look for. Namely mechanics with dynamics. Quake has all sorts of things like advanced movement that are not a simple " can you do it" skill check, they have layers to them. And those layers further apply themselves upon other aspects of the game. Overwatch was intentionally designed to NOT give people some sort of out to excel at. Why do you think so many attacks are either super spread fire or have minor aim assist? Why can junkrat get almost nor horizontal movement out of his mines? Why is there no character who actually moves quickly without cooldowns?
It has no nuance.
>>338202002
>Projectile weapons
What about the lasers?
>>338197461
No, you died because other players killed you.
>>338201916
Not really sure what you're trying to say.
Are you saying that pros playing a game against each other makes the skill ceiling low?
>>338202179
that is the norm in a team based shooter, in a competitve environment.
that is, both teams are similar in skill level
>>338202002
hitboxes get stretched as a character moves to cover their previous spot and their new predicted spot by the servers
other "meme" games such as CSGO simply have pop in, pop out, hitboxes that refresh with the ticktrate or they get shifted past the character model to the predicted zone or trail behind the character model
its the reason why ticktrate is such a huge meme and why the overwatch devs, when asked about tickrate were like "wait why would we care about ticktrate, i guess its "high" whatever."
>>338202083
Ticks are server frames, retard.
>>338202132
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_zqpdwBr5w
>>338192473
>What the hell were they thinking?
I actually have no idea. The upstream tickrate is supposedly ~60, the server world update rate is ~60, but the client update rate is 20. Fucking why? To save bandwidth? The server is already updating more frequently than the client knows, the state is already computer more frequently. I have no fucking clue why they wouldn't bump up the client update rate to ~60 as well.
>>338202181
>It has no nuance.
Don't you mean.
>it has no nuance that I am aware of
Because I've played it for less than 20 hours and I found a lot of little neat tricks, but I'm sorry that you can't adapt, I guess you were never any good at games to begin with.
>>338196253
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTH2ZPgYujQ
>>338202396
>To save bandwidth?
Reminder that you cannot host private dedicated servers.
>>338202274
i was originally responding to >>338199653
which tries to state that one person has no impact or influence on the game.
but >>338201376 went off on some tangent. standard of 4chan discussion
>>338202318
except skill level doesn't automatically mean you are suddenly tougher, because having the initiative and positioning are supremely important in an fps game.
>>338202475
>Reminder that you cannot host private dedicated servers.
What? What's the point of this game then?
>>338202181
quake was not made with these nuances in mind
they are basic cause and effect from the base code in the game.
20+ years of spergs running up against walls, falling off cliffs, and shooting rockets at their feet resulted in a detailed classification and archival of these causes and effects, what you call "nuances" now.
So a game has a restricted beta, lets people play for 3 days and then closes again, and then the result was "this game does not have any of the certified quake "nuances" therefore it has none."
sounds really fucking stupid
>>338202198
Hey it's a different video than I thought, they went a bit further in, I'll probably have to scan over it and see if there's anything really disagreeable in it.
Just going by that screenshot and the little experience I have playing Zarya, I also don't have a tremendous problem with that. Laser type weapons all have relatively short range and relatively low damage. They're meant to be extremely easy to aim and deal with fast moving annoying shits like Tracer and Genji because they're hard to hit with the people they're usually trying to prey on, like Widowmaker. Same case with Mei.
>>338202321
I heard about that stretching earlier, does the video actually go into the specifics? If so I'd be interesting in seeing how it works. The only real bad experiences I've had that would be explained by stretching is the above mentioned shit about blinking around a corner as Tracer, and getting killed pre-blink in someone else's screen. It would explain that if the server's simulation considers your position as 'both' spots that each client saw you in, and either stretched them out for hitbox simulation, or simply allowed shots at either location to work.
>>338192473
>Do they want to prevent a competitive scene from forming?
IDK what this thread is about but that sounds like a good thing
Overwatch will die quicky. There's no point in buying it
Now Battleborn! That is a game which will grow a community over years. I would buy into it now to develop your Skills for the overwhelming tide of new players!
>>338202443
I've found plenty of neat tricks too, but that's all they are tricks
>that I am aware of
Blizzard has intentionally said they don't want a game where one player can win it all by themselves. And they're the type of developer to stamp out anything that they don't like. That's why mechanics with nuance does, it lets you trounce people who don't know them.
This is the same company that turned broodwar into starcraft 2. This is the same company that pruned abilities away from wow instead of trying to make them all useful. Even if the possibility exists for anything actually skillful to exist, they will stamp it out.
>>338201854
>But again, why the magical 'it's lower than your ping so who cares' mentality?
It's not a "who cares" mentality. It's about recognizing what the biggest problems are. Your biggest problem is not going to be a server's tick rate for many years. It's more likely going to be the poor online infrastructure in the US or between continents, and bad code.
>>338200231
>>338199928
>>338199346
You're pissing in the wind. No one really cares what the tick rate is or how netcode actually functions. They just want to meme everywhere and find another tortanic
>>338202495
So you were trying to say that the skill ceiling is low because the best players are playing against each other.
That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
>>338202685
g8b8m8:^)
>>338202638
By blizzards own words they don't want those sort of mechanics.
>>338192985
I thought Dr.Seuss died.
>>338202685
This man has the right idea!
Battleborn is simply Badass™
>>338202475
I know, but that's a retarded reason. The game is already sending player actions at ~60Hz, the server is already using the resources to simulate/update the world at ~60Hz, but the client doesn't see the benefit of those. I could understand if the server itself was ticking at 20, but no, it's supposedly ticking at 60. They went 2/3s of the way, then decided to stop there.
>>338193470
>Overwatch is such an awesome game
Fuck off shill.
>>338202198
is that seriously fucking hitting her
christ theyre really going all out for the babies
For people who actually know shit about networking does trickrate even matter?
Reminder, once you hit the proper level to play Ranked, just play Ranked.
Get that free 60 tick rate and enjoy yourselves.
>>338195842
>Once "e-sports" become more than small local tournaments, it hurts the game.
I couldn't agree more. I got into competitive gaming back when Street Fighter 4 (vanilla) came out. It was great seeing the same familiar faces at tournaments, and building a sense of community. Eventually fighting games became relatively big, and one tournament organizer here pays Justin Wong big bucks to come play in one of our local tournaments, I guess for promotional reasons. It wasn't fun for anyone. Everyone that he played just got beat down with minimal effort (surprise surprise, there isn't quality competition in Denver), and he ended up taking the pot money. He also seemed miserable the whole time, and when he wasn't playing he was just sitting by himself, on his phone.
These days, it's not about building the community, it's about training to go play in other places, to go to majors and Evo. It just seems lame.
>>338202738
I don't even get what you're saying. There's plenty of nuance discovered and waiting to be discovered. All the abilities act differently and require different skills, and there will be nuances discovered in each one. There's also ranked matchmaking, so the good players will rise to the top who are the best at doing it.
>>338202753
That's pretty stupid because the biggest problem is something that cannot be fixed, at least not easily, not playing online.
Tick rate is something that is much easier to fix that reduces latency and improves the overall responsiveness of a game for (mostly) everyone. The main reason it isn't done is for business reasons (which has an easy fix) and secondly for performance reasons (also an easy fix).
>>338203089
>trickrate
kek
>>338202198
DELETE THIS!
>>338203085
The hit marker animation happens after you hit someone, and sticks for like a quarter second.
He hit her then moved off of her, but the hitmarker was still visible.
That being said, head hit boxes are fucking huge.
>>338203194
Of course some people will be better than others. What I'm saying is that the sort of advanced mechanics that people want in fps games won't be here, because by their very nature they allow for players to absolutely trounce other players. It's not about the skill cap existing, it's about it being spread out so far that a weak player won't be able to see the summit. As in, if a quake pro hops into a random FFA he can go 100/0. That won't happen in overwatch.
>complaining about 20tick from a pro player angle
>it's 60 tick in custom lobbies
woops
>>338203089
It keeps the "world" you're viewing more consistent with your opponent's and the server's. It will never be completely consistent until we figure out quantum computing but a higher tickrate will update both clients as to what the other client has done much more frequently.
>>338203089
Lower tick rate means the server has to interpolate more. Essentially, it means the servers has less "info" about where you are, which means a higher number of errors.
>>338202985
You realize that bandwidth costs money, right?
With the way hitboxes work in OW, interpolation makes the difference between 20hz and 60hz on the client almost nothing and you're cutting your outbound costs by two thirds. In the AWS cloud at that scale that's a ton of cash.
>>338202738
>Blizzard has intentionally said they don't want a game where one player can win it all by themselves.
How is this a bad thing? It's a team-based objective game by definition. Why should gregor be able to come in and decimate the entire opposing team single-handed without so much as grouping up with his team or caring about his team's class composition? He can do that in Quake Live or UT 2016 if he wants.
>>338195772
HAHAHAHAHA gg Blizzard you are done bye bye Overwatch I'm off buying Battleborn™ I have heard only good things about it. You should check it out too! Buy it on Steam and if you don't like it you can just get a refund.
>>338199346
Hit detection is client-side up to a maximum of a 250ms delay in order to prevent the feeling of being shot around a corner.
If hit detection was truly server side you would have the issue of never hitting fucking anything when lagging since your version of players would be in a different spot than the server's.
>>338203412
Actually it can happen in Overwatch, I've seen games with players getting 25 elimination streaks.
>>338200168
nah i thought because blizzard keeps making dumb balancing choices and shit casual content you meant the opposite.
specially with how much blizzard pays people to overhype RNGstone
>>338203089
Yes, it updates what you see more often, so in the end the differences between what's on your screen, what's on the server and what's on other players' screens isn't as severe.
>>338203472
>Lower tick rate means the server has to interpolate more.
The client is sending 60 updates per second to the server though so this isn't much of a problem. What is an issue is that the server is infrequently sending that information to your opponent, which leads to things like people getting shot after ducking behind cover because of the "shooter first" design.
this thread is retarded
and your discussions about "pro" scenes are retarded
leave my gaming thanks
but no thanks
>>338203412
all the arguments on this "nuance" topic boil down to "i cant abuse game mechanics to beat others one versus one in this primarily team game of 21 characters and six versus six"
its arguing that a game is missing something that it isnt supposed to have, like fucking black people in the Witcher 3.
>>338203657
You will always have the Shot around corners thing as long as lag compensation exists. Good ping and High tickrate can minimize it. (Along with a good server)
>>338203565
>Hit detection is client-side up to a maximum of a 250ms delay in order to prevent the feeling of being shot around a corner.
Not only did the devs flatly state that hit detection is server side in their video, what you've described would CAUSE you to be shot after finding cover.
Favor the shooter is hitbox behavior. They do not work like they do in valve games.
>>338203193
Fighting games are an entirely different beast. My initial thought upon reading that was 'why pay Wong to come out?' but then it makes sense. A lot of local scenes want to be a part of the more global community. They want to be a part of the Capcom Cup, have majors that 'matter' and get their talent to be represented at Evo, or TSB even.
However, fighting games are, like I said, totally different. You cannot have a competitive scene that trains online. East coast LI Joe can't train against Fchamp in California meaningfully unless one of them flies the fuck out there, so your ability as a player to grow, get used to all the other players, and build up an extensive matchup knowledge is severely limited by your ability to travel. It's even worse for anime games because there is no meaningful competition in the states, so nobody here can really grow to truly be competitive, since they don't live in Japan.
At the very least team based games like this can be learned and practiced remotely.
>>338203392
Head hitboxes only seem to be huge and have high priority for projectile weapons. For hitscan stuff you still have to aim.
>>338203559
It must be posted.
>>338203568
I've seen someone win $25 on a slot machine.
Doesn't mean slot machines have a high skill ceiling.
>>338198374
That wouldn't be latency, if the tickrate is 10Hz you get the issue of all actions from clients that occurred within that 100ms being registered at the same time.
If one player fires a headshot and then another fires a headshot after a 90ms delay (including latency), both players will take a headshot simultaneously despite one being earlier.
>>338203484
>How is this a bad thing?
In a competitive environment everyone will be that good and teamplay will still factor in. Any half decent fps with a ctf mode will have just as much teamwork as overwatch. The only difference is overwatch forces it.
>>338203568
But he won't have enough capability to win the match on his own.
>>338203565
https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking#Lag_compensation
>he question arises, why is hit detection so complicated on the server? Doing the back tracking of player positions and dealing with precision errors while hit detection could be done client-side way easier and with pixel precision. The client would just tell the server with a "hit" message what player has been hit and where. We can't allow that simply because a game server can't trust the clients on such important decisions. Even if the client is "clean" and protected by Valve Anti-Cheat, the packets could be still modified on a 3rd machine while routed to the game server. These "cheat proxies" could inject "hit" messages into the network packet without being detected by VAC (a "man-in-the-middle" attack).
tl;dr: client-side hit reg is a very bad idea.
>>338203089
yes but not to the degree a lot of people think it does
Increasing tickrate has large costs associated with it when your game serves millions of players, even if it partially uses Amazon cloud servers(which OW does).
It also has diminishing returns the more you go up. CS:GO is a good example of this, there was a blind test on reddit and players couldn't tell the difference because 64 vs 128 is subject to massive DR. The real problem most players blame on tickrate in CSGO is actually the result of Valve using frame-back networking and doing a lot of client-side calculating.
OW has two advantages in its networking that have been covered before, but one is it does most of its work server side and your IP address isn't exposed when you use VOIP. Both are really good for the competitive side of the game, although there are already hackers unfortunately.
The problem people have with OW is that 20 tick is too low for public play and they allow players to kill each other on the same tick. this causes a lot of problems with hitscan, but also allows melee abilities to function smoother and better than say Valve games(ugh).
>>338203804
Of course, but my point was that the server isn't interpolating too much in Overwatch because the client is sending a lot of information.
>>338203707
>abuse
Even a simple game like TF2 lets you do this and none of those mechanics are exploits in anyway.
>>338192473
>WAAAAAAH THIS SHOULD CATER TO ME
why not build a meta around the fact that there's 20 tickrate and not bitch and moan endlessly
>>338200850
>but bad tick rate only affects ME!
>>338204071
>aren't exploits
>>338193657
its 20 bones you save from buying on PC over consoles.
>>338203945
>The only difference is overwatch forces it.
Teamwork is itself a skill. I feel like your just mad that Overwatch doesn't emphasize the specific skills that you have grown accustomed to in arena shooters, which involve ignoring your team and just going for the most kills.
Like I said, I'm sorry that you're being left in the dust with your inability to adapt.
>>338204071
to be fair famalam, overwatch does have shit like rocket jumping and knockbacks. Sure, some characters have the "press button for skill" move such as Junkrat, but there's fucking videos on Soldier 76, the vertically limited character, doing rocket jumps to reach inaccessible areas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IAGzlGAeY0
>>338204254
>which involve ignoring your team and just going for the most kills.
You've clearly never played ctf before.
>>338199653
he's fucking awful, and even with the aimbot he doesn't hit more than 50% of the shots or so it sounds like
maybe you're right but it's a real shit example
>>338201376
>1v1 me guardian brs only
>>338204336
That's actually very interesting, since 76 can heal himself and is extremely valuable as a mid range harasser. Being able to get up to weird places to fuck with the enemy team even better sounds extremely valuable. Would also be good to have him up in weird places to start his ult from an unexpected angle.
>>338204468
I've played hundreds of hours of tfc, and then tf2, plus all the Battlefield games, counter-strike, etc.
Fuck the launcher says play but it doesn't get into the server I JUST WANT TO PLAY YOUR GAME BLIZZARD FUCK
>>338204336
Rocket jumping mechanics are limited as hell in overwatch, sure you can get some vertical movement but horizontal movement is completely fucked. In any other game with a character like junkrant he'd be able to send himself across the map. You know, the kind of things that actually take some knowledge to pull off. Jumping up slightly higher doesn't take much know how. I'm surprised that guy hasn't posted the tf2 webm yet.
This one is actually cool though.
>>338195296
Nice Kafka-trap lol
>>338204748
Those aren't arena shooters anon.
>>338194003
OI IT 37 BINGS PAST 7 BONGERS ROIGHT NOW
>>338204336
That's pretty neat
