INCOMING PATCH
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https://www.nintendo.co.jp/wiiu/axfj/update/index.html
HAPPENING STATUS: IT'S
So how about dem Bayo nerfs?
Dedede is already perfect and needs no buffs :^)
>>337910517
le suck 'n' cuck XD
>>337910517
Probably gonna an hero if nothing happens again.
Will this patch add Wolf so he can be in a good Wii U game?
>>337910310
Nerf Bayonetta to the ground and some Shulk buffs?I don't even main DDD or Jiggly and I want to see them get something so they can say they got buffed even once. also pls no Cloud nerfs
Will he be viable at last?
Nerf Bayo and we are gold.
>>337910310
Since when do they announce patches like this?
I want to believe but it seems like a joke
>implying they'll nerf their cash cow
If anything her bad matchups will get the stick.
>>337911382
Someone in smashboards mentions that the last time they made an announcement like this they killed the original HOO HAA
I swear to christ somewhere I remember seeing sakurai saying NO MORE UPDATES NO MORE BALANCE PATCHES when the last DLC hit but it keeps on coming
>>337911467
RIP Bayo and good riddance. Mac buffs when?
>>337911467
Maybe this is how they announce emergency patches and they will kill Bayonetta the same way that they killed the HOO HAA?
I'm stoked
>>337911467
Bayo's 0 to death is definitely gone then.
What other nerfs do you guys wanna see?
What buffs?
Personally I'd like a small buff for Shulk but I cant really point to any single thing I want them to change.
Post predictions
- Bayo gets nerfed
- Kirby gets more buffs to his Smash attacks
- Cloud can't grab ledge on dive Climhazzard anymore
>mfw they will never ever nerf Rosaluma
>>337911847
What, you mean again?
>you must have free space of [61MB].
Are patches normally this big?
>>337911690
Even more nerfs to Bayonetta
Buffs for Shulk, Zelda, Mac, Jiggly, DDD, DH, Roy, Falco, Palutena and basically the characters that aren't quite there yet
I'd also want a couple of buffs for Pit/Pitoo even though they are already solid and they are likely getting nothing
>>337911719
>Kirby gets more buffs to his Smash attacks
It will fucking happen. At this rate his smash attacks will kill at 50%
>>337911847
I honestly don't see the need. Her upairs are kinda bullshit but I can live with them, the player has to be skilled to really squeeze out the puppetmaster potential, and I honestly can't remember the last time luma kicked me out of a grab on her.
Her only real bullshit is her matchup with Ness.
>>337911847
They nerfed her 3 times already, and people STILL keep bitching.
BOP LUMA ONCE THEN GO FOR HER, IT'S NOT THAT HARD FOLKS
>all these anons crying for Bayonetta nerfs
I don't want Bayo to be nerfed. She's fun. I'd rather everybody else get buffed so that they might be as fun. Nerfs suck and make characters less fun.
>>337912732
Because no one want to bother trying to git gud.
>>337910310
Just don't change anything about Sheik and nerf Bayonetta and this patch is good
>>337912732
Sure she's fun in what she does, but she's too much reward for too little risk. In both offense and defense.
Witch time is a dodge AND a counter, and its effectiveness pretty much deny characters the use of smashes for surprise kill. And if that wasn't enough, the counter effect is just as deadly from a tilt. and if you got witch time'd next to the ledge then enjoy your spike
Divekicks approaches on shield are hilariously safe, and completely fucking deadly if they get you in the air as its a combo starter.
The way comboing works by the time she's done with you, even if she didn't kill you, she has a falling headstart to compensate for her increased landing lag.
Recovery game is excellent, so gimping her is dangerous, and witch time is still a factor. Edge guarding is also great with guns, the heel smash, and witch time is still a factor (Ike truly knows this pain)
Gitting good at Bayonetta means trying to guess when a divekick is coming to spotdodge and grabbing+throwing until you get a kill confirm because otherwize you're playing russian roulette.
Buff fucking WHEN
They aren't going to remove ding dong are they!!?
PLEASE
>>337914254
Ding Dong has stayed for several patches now, they are content with it. Bowser's Shell Shock got an adjustment last patch instead f being removed, so that one's staying too.
>>337914340
I know little about the character's details but I imagien the only way to improve her without accidentally creating rest combos is to extend aerial hitboxes, no?
>>337912732
Yeah I don't want Bayo to be nerfed either
I want her to be able to up out of everything and for it to be a completely safe approach and if they when they eventually get hit by it they receive 40% damage or death from the simplest combo. I also want people to not be able to attack Bayonetta because if they do she uses up b out of shield and they die or risk and reward not existing when Bayonetta is playing because of her moveset in general but more specifically witch time
Every single character should be buffed to counteract that even when that means reworking all the characters and game entirely
>>337914340
Who cares about Puff n' Stuff
>yfw shield regen nerf
>All these people wanting Bayo to get nerfed to the ground
The fuck? Git Gud and learn to DI out of her combos even her jab. I got destroyed by a Little Mac because he knew how to DI out and was patient about his Smash attacks. She doesn't have 50/50s or can control the entire the neutral like Sheik did.
>>337913874
You can just dodge out of the way of a divekick. There's no reason for a Bayo to be fullhopped in the air. Divekick is super punishable on whiff.
>>337910310
Hope they nerf Sheik more. Bayonetta will be untouched.
>>337914340
What can you even do with her without extending Rest's range to Melee levels?
>>337912025
The patches are getting bigger and bigger... fuck this.
>>337914471
I don't main Jiggly but I use her every now and then and what I would do and consider sensible buffs would be to
Make her down air as good as Kirby's. that should give her another good approach option
Make sing not be not as shit by extending the hitbox
Rest should kill around 20% earlier
Her landing frames on her aerials should be cut down
Her up air to be faster and to cancel earlier so she can pressure people above her or on platforms
As I said I'm not a Jiggs main but I would consider that reasonable.
rest combos are too much imo. just because she had it in melee doesn't mean she should here
>>337914761
>Hope they nerf Sheik more. Bayonetta will be untouched.
I hope not
Sheik has been nerf enough, Mewtwo is a bigger treat then Sheik now.
Bayonetta damage out put, and combos need to be tone down.
One little open, and the bitch is already got you at 70% with a simple combo.
>>337914709
>I got destroyed by a Little Mac
Interestingly enough I've noticed a lot of people counter picking Mac when i'm Bayo. I'm guessing it's because he can outright ignore most of Bayo's nonsense and cut through it with his strong jabs.
>>337914672
I would be happy
>>337915121
Best way to fix jiggs is her aerial momentum. Its hard to change direction in the air with her compared to melee. Makes walling with her less safe. Fix that, you fix jiggs.
>>337915121
To that I would add making rest kills have the long death animation 100% of the time.
>>337915121
Rest should have a shorter time.
Rest gives them enough time to come back from the dead and get and easy kill from Jiggly
And Sing should have a bigger hit box, I mean compare to Bayonetta's witch time, why can't Jiggly put people to sleep better.
>>337913874
http://www.sirlin.net/articles/designing-defensively-guilty-gear
It's not that Bayonetta is too good, or that Bayonetta needs to be nerfed, the problem lies in that Smash WiiU is a poorly designed game. It's a fighting game that is stupidly NOT built around combos. So when you introduce characters with a wide range of offensive options, they gain the ability to combo, and the rest of the cast is utterly helpless against them.
What Smash WiiU needs is not nerfs, or even buffs to the lower characters. What Smash WiiU needs are better defensive mechanics built to help against combos.
Look at the article I posted. Guilty Gear gets it right. Smash needs to drop this special snowflake identity of "not being a fighting game" because it very clearly is, and its fans very much treat it as such.
Defensive options in Smash = mobility. So for starters, bringing back momentum, and increasing fall speed across the board would go a long way to balance out the whole cast.
Personally, I would also add a mechanic like in GG, where consecutive hits in combos get weaker by doing less damage, reducing hitstun, and increase gravity.
In fact, I'd say such a mechanic us imperative in Smash at this point.
Rather than being retarded and trying to take combos out of a fighting game, accept that there WILL be combos, and give players the tools to defend against them. Otherwise you wind up nerfing everyone, and making all the characters play the same. (See: Grab>D-Throw>Utilt cookie cutter combos that plague the game. Is this what you want?)
>Mario's dair no longer airdodgeable
The absolute madmen
>tfw Smash is one of the most cancerous Nintendo franchises nowadays
No wonder why Sakurai is done with this shit. Having to pander to autists and tourneyfags
>>337912239
>Palutena
DAT BOI PALUTENA
Fuck yes
How bout a fucking Rosalina nerf.
>Dash attack hits infront of her
>UpAir is Pre-Patch Diddy terms of stupid and wide as fuck.
>Luma is a meat-shield that'll take the attack get Rosalina off scott-free
>Luma is super strong. Just reduce his KBG or his strength.
>>337913874
>Witch time is a dodge AND a counter
Opposed to counters doing what? Getting people caught up in an attack automatically and killing them?
Whats the difference between getting caught in Shulk's counter and killed
And getting caught in Bayo's counter and killed?
>characters the use of smashes for surprise kill
If you're getting countered, than by definition it's not a surprise. They saw it coming.
>so gimping her is dangerous
As opposed to gimping someone being safe?
>Edge guarding is also great with guns
Air dodge literally ONCE
i hope Roy gets buffs.
it's actually sad how bad he is now
>>337915173
All of his Smash can ignore everything she does.
>His Rising uppercut can ignore the 'Fly Me to The Moon' combo
>Jolt Haymaker is killer against all variations of her side-b
>All his Smash attacks have Super Armor so pretty much he can shrug of anything she pulls out.
>If she uses her Side-B to recover to the edge, Mac can use his down smash to catch her for an easy kill
Unless you spam Witch Time and Bullet Climax hardcore then Bayo will struggle hard against a smart Mac player
Bayonetta is pretty weak, you fags need to git gud
>>337915414
Your arguments are sound, but they are good things to wish for in the next game. The current game's mechanics are already settled, and Bayo is the one standing out with her mechanics that are too good for her game.
The ideal choice would be chaning the mechanics the way you desribed, the realistic choice is nerfing Bayonetta here and fix the inherent problems next game.
>people complain about Bayo's 0 to Death problems
>Am never able to pull it off ever
fuck you faggots, removing something that already has enough challenge and bullshit hurdles to go through.
I dont see anyone complaining about Ganondorf's reverse punch OHK bullshit.
>>337915693
>>Am never able to pull it off ever
I had it done to me once. As someone who has been playing Bayo since she came out it's really fun to see. Dude was obviously better than me in every way and just iced the cake with that shit.
>>337915693
Because you don't see anyone getting hit by Ganondorf's reverse punch.
>>337915647
Obviously at this point I'm talking about modding. Even in the next game this will never happen as Sakurai has officialy stated that Melee is one of a kind snd Smash will never take that direction again.
It is impossible to fix the game with patches that include nerfs and buffs. Seeing more and more characters get nerfed will just make the game more restrictive and boring. It's pointless to argue WHY a character like Bayonetta should be nerfed because Smash WiiU is flawed by design.
Bayonetta doesn't work without combos. Bayonetta is broken BECAUSE she has combos. That's all there is to it. You're better off holding your breath for Smash4 modding to burst open if you wanna take the game seriously competitively, because Smash WiiU has an incredibly low skill floor and ceiling that is too restrictive on the game.
>>337915626
actually Mac's F-tilt can beat Witch Time
>>337915693
Fucking this. They are not simple to do plus it's not a true combo at all. You've seen the webm where Jigglypuff Rests on a Bayo getting carried upwards.
>>337915607
>Whats the difference between getting caught in Shulk's counter and killed and getting caught in Bayo's counter and killed?
That Shulk's is affected by the strength of the move used on it so there is a risk/reward in play for both the opponent and Shulk
Bayonetta's is the same punish no matter how weak the attack you use on it so everything the opponent does is high risk, no matter what move it is
Shulk's hits in front of him and doesn't directly above or below him so it may miss and Shulk doesn't have his strong variation of his counter in the air
Bayonetta's is the same no matter on what direction you hit her
Shulk's counter has 70 frames before he can act and one frame of invulnerability
Bayonetta can act after 50 and has 11 frames of invulnerability so grabs can still miss her
That is the difference
>>337915973I just go burnt by it last night and I'm still fucking mad
Its still bullshit, leave Bayonetta alone!
>>337916181
>>337915693
It doesn't really matter. The point is it CAN happen and it isn't that hard to do.
I agree it's kind of a problem, but I do also believe people are blowing it out of proportion.
>>337915693
probably because you're a for glory faggot and most good bayo mains don't practice the timing online
>Main Falco
Give me faster down air (doesnt have to be brawl/melee fast, but faster). Less landing lag on Nair, All around faster lasers, and a 3f bair. Seriously, why is bair 4f?
Guys what if Fox gets the good ol' shine combos?
>>337911847
As much as I hate fighting Rosalina players, I give them credit since it takes quite a bit of skill to get good with her.
>>337916612
Will never happen. Sakurai wanted Reflector to do it's job and nothing else. Reflect.
>>337916236
>That Shulk's is affected by the strength of the move used on it
So you either get frozen and die or you get frozen and die faster
>Bayonetta's is the same no matter on what direction you hit her
>Bayonetta can act after 50 and has 11 frames of invulnerability so grabs can still miss her
It also does 0 damage by itself, unlike Shulk's. So instead of having the damage handed to you you have to reposition yourself and set shit up.
>>337915602
see the responses to this post >>337911847
There is clearly a level of "gud" that you have yet to "git"
Please let them buff my son.
>>337917224
His good friend Marth is getting some nostalgic grab changes.
>>337917224
What buffs do you think he needs? I play him sometimes. Only thing I can think of is sheilding dsmash takes away the latter 2 hits.
>>337917483
Yeah, Downsmash hits are mutually exclusive for some reason. Shulk's hits three times, why can't Lucas'?
>>337917010
>So you either get frozen and die or you get frozen and die faster
If you get countered at 100% with a Shulk with rage yeah, you may die from a jab at the ledge
Also keep ignoring what I said about Shulk's counter being unreliable when attacking from above or below
>It also does 0 damage by itself, unlike Shulk's.
Are you really complaining that you have options can do 2 smash attacks in a row, set up a combo into down smash at the ledge or do your standard 40% combo from any attack instead of getting fixed damage based on the move received? Bayonetta's is straight up better unless you are super lazy
>>337917483
>What buffs do you think he needs
Not him but he could use plenty
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKbLqoXfEns
I'd honestly be happy with a downsmash buff like what you said, but a downair buff would make me even happier
>>337917323
Is there any source on that? I feel like the only buffs Marth needs right is framedata tweaks. Landing lag, ending lag, etc.
>mfw jabbing and utilting to challenge everything
>mfw these jab 1 to literally anything mixups
>mfw last patch made tipper fair a kill move
>>337910310
>Ganondorf possibly getting buffed again
Hell yeah.
>>337914672
When I first saw that Bowser's down special broke shields instantly, I thought shields would be breaking all the time in this game and was PSYCHED about it. Jigglypuff should be the only one with a shield as good as they are now.
>>337917224
>>337917483
Please Sakurai. Make his Nair the same has Ness' please. They are the exact same move but Ness' outmatches his completely.
Make Zair unpunishable on block at least. He needs some type of good poking tool.
For the shortest tether in the game, it's pretty damn slow.
Also the Dash attack needs to be faster. It comes out Frame 15. Even Ganondorf's Dash attack his faster.
>>337918126
>Make his Nair the same has Ness' please
As a Lucas player, I'd kill myself if that shit happened.
>>337914672
Why? Shields in Smash 4 are the weakest shields have ever been. Worst durability and regen in the series. What needs buffs is shield pressure options.
>>337917903No source, just teasing the return of chaingrabs on Lucas
Marth is looking pretty slick these days, much better than le rushdown redhead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iRQ65JCzZ4
>>337918213
Not Nair sorry, I meant to say UpAir.
>>337916491
This. At a bare minimum a faster down air.
>>337910310
smash 4 is so balanced, they have to patch it once per month.
Whatever happened to Hackurai stating that he and his team were done making balance patches for sm4sh because he unironically wants this to be a party game and didn't want to enable competitive players "unfun playstyles" or some shit
>>337917878
Aw shit I forgot about dair. I actually make it a point to never use it cause it's so bad.
>>337918307
Oh, that's okay then. I don't think he needs it to be a kill move on par with Ness's, but I sure as fuck wouldn't complain if he got it.
Give Kirby better aerial mobility already.
It makes no sense how bad it is. Just that one change would be enough to raise him at least one tier up on the list
>>337918405
>starts out more balanced than any smash before it
>every 3-4 months it just gets yet more balanced
Man, I sure am sad. Look at how sad I am that I play a good game that continues to get better!
>>337917878
That up air makes no sense
I would love buffs to
His down smash having 3 actual hits
His up smash actually killing early instead of 90%
dair and uair fixed
>>337918494
I just want a size increase. Lucas' UpAir misses sometimes on the ground and you're right next to them yet Ness' hits almost character length apart.
>>337918426
Nintendo probably told him to fuck off and get over it because the free advertising from the competitive scene was so alluring.
>>337918615
ok..?
>>337915253
they do when they kill off the top
>>337918264
Breaking shields is CRAZY rare though. How often do you see shields break? Once every 20 matches. Maybe more if you have a main that has an install break move. Should be a much more common occurrence in my opinion. It makes it an actual threat instead of a coincidence.
>>337914595
You are smart. I like you
>>337917873
>If you get countered at 100% with a Shulk with rage yeah, you may die from a jab at the ledge
>Being this dramatic
wow
we can also pretend like shulk can't buff himself if you really want
>Also keep ignoring what I said about Shulk's counter being unreliable when attacking from above or below
Wow a counter that dishes out damage once activated doesn't completely 100% cover you.
Bayonetta's Witch Time can be fucked over by literally any multi-hit attack
>Are you really complaining that you have options can do 2 smash attacks in a row
Bayo's only good smash is her up smash, the rest are ass and do little to know damage
You can also whiff the first smash completely because it clinks against the opponent's attack
>set up a combo into down smash at the ledge
Which will do fuck all unless they've already taken near-kill percent damage, just like any other counter
>do your standard 40% combo
Which doesn't kill if they've so much as been breathed on at any point in the match
>instead of getting fixed damage based on the move received
How is this not better? Every counter apart from absolutly terrible ones like Lucario's and Greninja's allow you to be a lazy shitter because it just hands you damage.
>Bayonetta's is straight up better unless you are super lazy
Bayonetta has more options but you have to work them out yourself, unlike every other counter where you get rewarded for making a half assed read.
>>337918615
>more balanced than any smash
i don't think you played the game at launch.
RosaLuma, Diddy, Sheik and maybe Greninja were so good compared to everyone else it was insane.
also i wouldn't call adding Bayonetta balance
>>337917878
The uair is fine, it doesn't really need to hit anywhere but above him on his head. Could stand to be stronger, but that's not too much of an issue.
The grab could stand to be a bit quicker or longer
That D-Smash issue needs to be fixed.
>>337918990
Look it's a Snake hitbox from Brawl and a Marth hitbox from Melee.
>i don't think you played the game at launch.
I did. RosaLuma has always been fine and only the "Little Mac is OP" types ever complain about her. Diddy was no worse than Fox in Melee and far better than Meta Knight in Brawl.
>>337918615
>starts out more balanced than any smash before it
God no. Sheik's back air used to be a good kill move.
>>337918975
>a down smash set up will do fuck all unless they've already taken near-kill percent damage, just like any other counter
you do realize the move spikes?
>>337918952
ThanksI hope you felt some sarcasm from the other post because I meant it
>>337918849
It's not like shield breaks are common in any smash game. Besides, I did say that shield pressure options need buffs.
>may nerf Bayo
This isHORSESHIT
>tfw G&W will probably be untouched
I just want less start lag on a few moves, that's all he really needs.
>>337919115
>RosaLuma's Bthrow killing, not being able to get grabbed, DSmash covering most options with like no lag
>fine
also there's a big difference between someone like Melee Fox and pre patch Diddy.
it can take atleast a year to get decent at Melee Fox.
pre patch Diddy only needed banana, grab and Uair to become decent
>>337910310
>less than a week to GOML
sasuga Nintendo
>>337918849
Every time I play the tourneys, there's a shield break every few matches because the people on here a fuckin idiots
>>337919713
That's not shield pressure, that's people holding the shield button because they don't know how to get out of the way and getting hit by a slow move that does tons of shield damage.
Could also be online input lag, too.
>Megaman will go untouched
Fuck
>>337919964
Go away Adam I hate playing you
>>337919964
he doesn't really need changes
Can't wait for this patch to make the game take 3 minutes to load up.
Seriously, the game takes longer and longer to load after every patch, jesus fuck.
>>337920034
I'd like to at least be able to jump out of a slide. His mobility options that aren't Z-Sliding are terrible.
nice do i have to dump the entire game again for sm4shexplorer
>>337920267
Megaman should be able to act 5 frames earlier out of his slide, that way it will be as good as Cloud's
>>337920034
>>337919964
Give Megaman beta Metal Blade, Leaf Shield and fair back.
https://twitter.com/FuPoo/status/726888980659064832
>>337911553
Same thing happened with Splatoon. They said they would stop the updates a couple of months ago and they still keep coming. Also, Hyrule Warriors suddenly getting another season pass. Nintendo are gods when it comes to DLC.
>>337919580
>tfw my friend gets upset when i use G&W because hes my joke character yet i still beat him when hes using his main
He actually complains that i dish out moves too quickly, a buff would make him godlike
>>337920532
Wow that Dsmash did like 50%. Still not as bad as melee Peach.
>>337920532
Also to add on, iirc Beta Megaman could pellet while holding metal blade and bair auto canceled.
Beta Megaman was a high or top tier character easy.
>>337920532
That Peach d-smash tho
>>337920748
actually it is considering Peach DSmash almost never does that much
>>337920750
actually nevermind, pellet while holding metal blade wasn't a thing, it was just someone's wish list. Everything else was true tho
>>337920748
>>337920763
I imagine it was easy to SDI out of back then but you were probably still taking 20-30%.
>>337911553
Sakurai said he had no "plans"
Just like how he wasn't planning to make Melee
Or Brawl
Or Smash 4
Or Smash 4 DLC
But if Nintendo asked him to do it then there's a 99.9% chance that he'll do it
Even when he has an arm injury and needs to take painkillers every day just to hold a controller
>>337920850
You sort of can, if you Z-drop the Metal Blade while in the air and nair-Megabuster at the right time you can start up a pellet burst while grabbing the blade, since aerials also pick up nearby items when used.
>>337919510
>nerfing the best character in the game
>horseshit
>inb4 bu..but she isnt!!
>>337921452
nigga please.bu-but she isn't
another day another patch that ignores bowser jr
oh wait maybe they can slightly increase the speed of his cannonball that'll make up for it
Should I buy the Character/Level pack?
>>337910517
I swear to god if he doesn't get buffed this patch.
>>337910517
Upvoted XD!
>>337916612
Fox is already high tier, but Im totally down to see him #1 again
>>337910310
Buff Olimar.
Pls WFT buff
I play Bayo a lot in FG, and she is a bit of a problem, but it's not just because she's a good character.
It's also because everyone else is so shit.
Each time you play someone you should get a different experience. I shouldn't know what cookie cutter downthrow bullshit you're doing to attempt before we even start the match. I shouldn't be able to read the fuck out of you because your character only has two approach options. I shouldn't be able to repeatedly WT someone because they refuse to change up their strategy.
I'm not a good player. I can't pull off any zero-death combos. I hardly shield.
What I have though, is months and months of practice in FG where everyone tries to do the same two or three combos they saw on Youtube and thats it.
I hope they patch this bug out of the game.
>>337922719
>It's also because everyone else is so shit.
This. It's pretty much like people complaining Little Mac was OP at launch. Scrubs, nothing else.
>>337922736
Same here.
He should be wearing shoes like a sensible person.
>>337922809
>It's pretty much like people complaining Little Mac was OP at launch.
Jesus what a hilarious situation that was.
>Fight literally anyone
>Beat them
>They try to counter-pick Lil Mac because they think he's OP
>Beat them again
>This happens so much across the fucking globe that Lil Mac has the absolute worst win/loss ratio in the game in a matter of months
>Sakurai even comments on it in an interview
>>337923089
It happens in all "competitive" games in the world. Look at Overwatch, everyone complaining Mei is OP is a literal scrub. Same happens with Smash.
>>337923089
>Sakurai comments how low Mac's win/loss ratio is
>mfw nerfs him anyway
For what purpose?
We need fucking Roy buffs, don't let me down Sakurai.
>>337923628
So smash autists stop to threaten him. If only it worked.
>>337923628
What nerfs did Mac get?
>>337923628
Knockback/damage nerfs on everything, worse aerial side b
>>337912732
I agree, the stock should be decided on the first attack for every match up. It's so much more fun!
hopefully this patch will give characters more than 1-2 options in neutral
>>337924003
Aerial side b used to cover the distance of 3 Falco phantasms in a row but it got nerfed to what it is now
His multihit jab also did like 50 damage
>>337924174
meant for >>337924174
>>337924256
You meant it for yourself? that's deep, anon
>>337919580
I want Uthrow into Judge to be gone. Fucking bullshit combo can net you a kill in the 1st 5 seconds of a match.
>>337922719
It's not that I lose against her, I've actually never lost to a FG Bayonetta yet, but it just pisses me off that she gets so much out moves that are completely safe to throw out, that being her witch twist and to a lesser extent her divekick
I just don't like seeing her succeed because of how everything is stacked in her favor with that retarded moveset that she has
Her hitboxes are also completely fucking retarded
>>337915607
Other counters have a vulnerable start up time, witch time does not.
#buffthepuff
>>337925007
J O K E
O
K
E
C H A R A C T E R
>>337924476
except it's not even a true combo
>>337924717
That's almost as bad as Kirby 64's down A
>>337924717
>It's not that I lose against her, I've actually never lost to a FG Bayonetta yet
I've never seen anyone on /v/ admit to losing against a character they complain about. Ever.
They always say the same shit.
"I've never lost to X...they just make me mad"
>>337924476
Upthrow has way too high base knockback to combo into anything, did you mean downthrow to judge? It's not a true combo after like 10 percent, and even then, you can DI out of it.
Apparently the patch is gonna be like 60mb?
>>337925515
I've lost to her
She's definitely a pain in the ass to fight, second only to Rosalina
>>337925610
On Wii U. Bigger on 3DS.
>>337925610
300 mb for 3ds and 60mb for Wii U. Whatever reason sounds like a map patch fixes on that end or something.
Wish list
>Greninja gets another frame data buff
>Pika remains untouched
>Falco gets a run speed, nair, and u-tilt buff
>>337925610
How big is that compared to last patch?
>>337911259
You're thinking of last patch, GanonDork.
>>337924717
>Her hitboxes are also completely fucking retarded
That picture is pretty silly out of context. Post more character hitboxes.
>>337925515
Well I'm glad to be the first you've seen because it is true
>>337922719
People seem to have issues with me in FG because I hardly play the meta and shield a lot/grab you mid shield if you get closethen up throw you
NO ONE SUSPECTS LUIGI'S SIDE B
EVER
Any idea of when, or is it really just "May"?
>>337925697
>300 MB for 3DS
>60MB for wii u
The fuck are they adding to 3DS?
>>337925927
There is no context to be had here, she just extends her arm with her gun and the hitbox is the size of an original xbox
>Post more character hitboxes.
Ok
I have one true wish for DK. That I know of, any character that successfully lands an air up-special doesn't have to worry about how they land. But with DK, I can hit someone with an up-special flawlessly and I get punished for it. Some lag reduction from up special would be nice.
But, whatever is in the update has been decided already so let's see.
>>337926228
most likely map fixes.
>>337926228
A complementary Circle Pad.
>>337926319
this one is the wind box of the move btw
>>337925574
Which way should you DI?
Is this the day I finally start entering my locals again?
The bayo main in our college has literally taken the last 10 weeks.
BuffEVERYONE
I'm bad at the game anyway, it don't matter
Where do you guys find these hitboxes
>>337926594
ur mum
>>337926594
smashboards you literal dumbass
>>337910310
>mfw dedede is unchanged once again
actually just kidding he got one change the past like 8 patches or so and that was a nerf to his airspeed
JUST
>>337926107
>Well I'm glad to be the first you've seen because it is true
If you're going
>I-I've always beaten them they just make me mad
you're not the first
If you're admitting that you may have actually lost once or twice to a character that annoys you, yeah you would be in the minority.
>>337926228
Don't get your hopes up for anything. It will be mostly balance and stability.
>>337924717
This hitbox is like Rosaluma's Dash attack
>>337926647
>tfw Roy is stuck in "c'mon, we took one frame of lag off of his aerials" city so he will stay basically the same and I will still have no right to ask for buffs
>>337912732
Yup, pay to win is so much fun.
>>337926647
>>337926927
Definitely did not mean to reply
>>337926927
y did u reply to me
>>337919115
>Diddy was far better than Meta Knight in Brawl.
>>337927112
I hope Olimar gets buffed. He's been ignored for too long.
>>337914709
>DI out of her combos even her jab.
>I have no idea what I'm talking about here are some memes instead.
Her jab pulls you in - you can't even smash DI out. This is a complaint by the pro players that when you get touched by the jab it's a free 19%.
Your pay to win slut is going to get nerfed and you're going to just have to learn to play the game. Deal with it.
>>337926461
Up and away. He can only hit you with uptilt if you do that.
>>337915626
>unless you spam witch time
So bayo players in general?
BAYO'S NERFED?
GUESS WHO'S COMING OUT OF RETIREMENT
>>337927417
It's somehow possible. A very good Little Mac in FG actually got out of my jab combo twice. I don't know how, I was surprised myself. I'm not bullshitting you.
>>337927693
If you mean the rapid jabs, you probably just held it out too long.
>>337927572
Where the fuck has he been? Ever since Sheik got nerfed he just dipped out the tournament scene and started the Bayonetta is toxic to the community meme.
>>337927910
'hand problems', as if you can get those from sm4sh.
he's just scared of losing the number one title and getting free money at every tourney becuase of Bayos.
>>337927572
Man what a coincidence that his hand healed right after the patch!
>>337926849
I can't admit to something that hasn't happened
>They always say the same shit.
>"I've never lost to X...they just make me mad"
I must be the first if I don't fit in that
>>337911847
>>337912285
>>337917036
The big problem with Rosalina is how she shuts down any character that doesn't have a good way to deal with the luma, and projectile characters in general. And even against characters that can rid of it quickly it's not like she struggles a lot alone, and it's easy to camp until it returns.
>>337928070
>>337928070
>I must be the first if I don't fit in that
>>337924717
>It's not that I lose against her, I've actually never lost to a FG Bayonetta yet, but it just pisses me off
Guess again.
>Cloud will get nerfed again
>ctrl f Corrin
>no results
>>337910635
>ask /v/ about tips with dedede
>you just suck
>you are so bad no tips will help you
>melee is better
I really hope they buff him.
>>337928140
You were implying that people who say that say it because they can't admit they have lost to X character, the difference is that I really haven't lost yet
I knew Bayonetta was going to be the strongest character when I first played her, I am still hoping Nintendo applys the right nerfs. Just make sure she has no confirm kill options below 100% and she will be fine.
>no clones in brawl
>there won't be any DLC for smash 4 ;)
>we won't be making any more patches after the ballot
When will Sakurai tell the truth?
I still need Marth's sword to be extended on all his moves. Also, why is it so easy to get out of his Dancing Blade now?
>>337928542
Corrin isn't really OP, just annoying
>>337928542
Corrin's worst asset was already nerfed, he's not high priority anymore.
>>337928646
>there won't be any DLC for smash 4 ;)
He said they had no plans at that time
>we won't be making any more patches after the ballot
When did he say that? Likely you're misinterpreting something
>>337928493
Good. I think it's funny to compare him to Donkey Kong. Both can charge to get a powerful attack, except Cloud gets four and all of them are incredibly useful. His side b is fast as fuck, lasts a while to catch dodgers and has no end lag
>>337910310
Elma out of fucking nowhere.
I can feel it, it's finally happening.
>Olimar will never get a fourth Pikmin
I just hate whiffing Smash attacks because the Pikmin are all over the place. I know that the limit is 3 largely because the 3DS can't handle more than that and that 6 kept Olimar safe, but it sure hurts messing up attacks.
>>337910310
>Smash 4 will never live up to its potential because Sakurai wants everyone to play like campy wieners with no options
This is why Bayo, Sheik, and Diddy ruled the game so hard. He wants to nerf the fucking game down to 1 button simplicity for crybabies feelings. It's not brawl 2.0 now but its headed there. I hope to fucking god hes not in charge of Smash 5, because if he is I'm not even going near it.
Seeing Smash 4 come so close to being great, then have stupid nerfs and babyfied handholding features fuck it into the ground is just heartbreaking.
>>337928717
I'd say the only move that might need a range increase is fsmash. MAYBE downtilt. Other than that, his range isn't an issue. But his framedata, on the other hand, needs work.
>>337929057
It would help if his Smashes and aerials still had a weaker hitbox when he didn't have Pikmin.
>>337928717
He already got that, only think I'd want is cut the endag of dair for people to try bolder spikes.
HOW CAN I HELP YOU KING DEDEDE?
>>337929230
Damn, I totally forgot about dair being total garbage now. It's got literally one frame of being an actual spike, everything else just knocks people away.
>>337928598
>the difference is that I really haven't lost yet
Sure. You're getting so defensive about an observation that apparently doesn't apply to you because...
...it doesn't apply to you. Makes sense.
>>337929367
I NEED ONE OF THEM BUFFS TO CLOBAH THEM THERE TOP TIERS
Just make her faster, that's all I need.
>>337922687
WFT is already high tier you cuck
What can we do to him? It actually took until the last patch for him to get any positive buffs.
>>337929620
>her
Plz Sakurai
fix my full jab
give me a better kill throw
how about less kb on my upthrow so i can combo more?
fix my cannon ball. make it faster or stronger. or give it a hitbox as its falling
anything... hell just be lazy and make my f smash stronger
plz don't ignore me again.. i just want to beat fucking Mario
http://smashboards.com/threads/bayonetta-hitbox-visualization.435127/
The first move of her FAIR is big as fuck but thats really the only one thats out of the ordinary.
To compare
http://smashboards.com/threads/zero-suit-samus-hitbox-visualization.432596/
>>337915126
I hope they nerf both and ZZS, top tiers are cancer
>>337929673
>melanin
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEI'd just make sun salutation heal 4%
>>337929812
>give it a hitbox as its falling
>Off the stage KOs from falling balls
Go fuck yourself
>>337929742
Make bair a kill move
Make dair spike on the last hit
Buff knockback on the killing fruits
Perhaps make fthrow a combo throw?
>>337928896
I say more comparable to mario because they are just average and don't really have any really fucking terrible matchups (maybe rosa for mario)
>>337929367
I NEED SOME PATCHES TO CLOBBER THAT THERE TIERS
>>337930002
It already has a hitbox as it begins it's fall, so if you space it right you can have it fall right next to the ledge. Problem?
>>337930005
How about fixing the fucking grab?
>tfw none of my mains are top tiers but they're not in much need of a buff either
This'll be fun
>>337929673
>it's a ZeRo shits all over your favourit character episode
>>337929817
>thats really the only one thats out of the ordinary.
Sure
>>337929812
>Fix my jab
Fucking this.
>>337930142
That too. Sorry, I don't play PacMan, so I forgot about the shitty grab.
>>337929113
F smash and dtilt were exactly what I had in mind.
>>337929230
Not all his moves got a range increase. Fair did though and that's great. He needs less landing lag on Fair and a fuck ton less on Dair.
>>337929924
she's already the only character ever to be able to heal themselves alone
you can DB right after a full SS for 4% why make her able to heal 6%
>>337930238
>It's a your favorite character shits all over ZeRo episode
>>337930257
>Ignoring the entirety of ZSS's UpB
Nothing out of the ordinary
Another Samus buff pls
Another Dedede buff pls
Make Olimar not shit pls
>>337930324
To mak it shine as her gimmick, and DB healing barely counts considering how the timing increases on consecutive uses.
B U F F.
I can play Samus fine right now, but I need MORE.
>>337915121
>dair as good as Kirby's
>bigger hitbox on Sing
>less landing lag
>better up-air
Only thing you're forgetting is a combo throw. Not one that'll lead to Rest, but perhaps an aerial. Other than that, as a long time Jiggs main you pretty much read my mind.
>>337929620
I'd prefer less endlag if anything. I still don't get why they made Robin the slowest character.
FIX
ROB'S
EYES
PLEASE
>Ctrl+F 'duck'
>nothing
>>337928015
>>337927910
He literally made a video of his issues. Sounds like he had an infection, honestly.
>>337930428
>Another Dedede buff pls
>Another
W-WHAT? WHEN WAS THE FIRST?
>>337930537
This. Any buff or fix for ROB is good enough to me.
>>337930582
You're right ;_;
>>337930428
>Another Dedede buff
Wait when did he get a buff?
>>337930383
It isn't that big and yet people still fall out of ZZS up b too frequently.I'm happy about it
Nothing out of the ordinary here
>>337910310
Does Kirby really need changes?
He feels so squarely in the middle that he doesn't need buff or nerfs.
>>337930634
I think ROB's fine right now from a gameplay stand-point, no buffs or nerfs really needed, but the eye glitch drives me insane for no reason.
>people who went 0-2 in 2001-2013
So when's the next tourney?
>people who went 0-2 in 2014-2016
So when's the next patch?
>>337930502
Glad to know I was on the right track even though I don't play her that often
Let's hope at least one of those happens
>>337929103
Diddy ruled the game because dthrow uair was basically Melee Fox uthrow uair on steroids and it was also easy as fuck to do with no way around it. At least Fox uthrow uair could be SDIed, you just had to take Diddy dthrow uair. That on top of banana and his amazing frame data and damage output made him significantly better than every character in the game.
Sheik ruled because she was a character that was designed around being fast and racking up damage but having issues killing. The "issues killing" part didn't matter though because dthrow uair was a 50/50 kill option around 120-130. She lost it and doesn't dominate nearly as much now.
Bayo doesn't dominate SHIT. She barely has any top results and she only does so well because of her combos. Bayo is basically the Melee ICies of this game. Doesn't do that well at top level but bodies low and mid level because people don't know how to fight her there.
>>337930729
This hitbox honestly isn't that bad considering how awful of a move ftilt actually is, plus she has to go through ftilt 1 and 2 to get to 3.
It'd be busted if she could only do ftilt 3 though. Snake's utilt lives on through Bayo at least.
>>337930892
You're forgetting PM where people were saying "where's the next patch?" too.
There are also still people who want to switch to PAL in Melee. It's just that Melee players learned how to deal with it and everyone accepted that low tiers will never ever be playable. Smash 4 players still haven't accepted that plus patches means low tiers might still have a chance. People asking for top tier nerfs need to be hung though, the top tier is at a pretty good spot at the moment, low tier just needs to be buffed.
>>337918975
>being this bad of a bayo player
>>337918975
>Bayonetta's Witch Time can be fucked over by literally any multi-hit attack
This literally hasn't been true in ages since people just do dtilt usmash now.
>>337931248
I think she doesn't dominate because the only people who picked her up were bad/mediocre players. It speaks for itself that those otherwise mediocre players suddenly appeared in the finals after Bayo.
The thing about Bayo is that she can be absolutely bodied but one dive kick at any percent and she can get a kill. Or land a lucky witch time. It's not fun at all watching her matches. If a really dedicated and good player picked her up then I think she'd be close to unbeatable.
Fix Game and Watch's Nair, the hit box still doesn't make sense
Stop nerfing Metaknignt, he did nothing wrong, doing this shit isn't going to force people to start using the tip of forward A
Stop Making Bowser and Dorr heavier, it's not doing anything other than making games take longer than they should
Give people more speed like you did Mewtwo
Fix Robin's nosferatu hitbox
Do that sheild nerf you did a while back that got Melee fags upset
Also give Dorf more knocback on forward A just to fuck around
>>337931381
It is bad because it isn't even close to matching the animation
>how awful of a move ftilt actually is
Maybe they should have designed a good move instead of a bad one with incredibly deceptive hitboxes
>plus she has to go through ftilt 1 and 2 to get to 3.
So just press A three times? that is not hard you know?
>>337931946
>Fix Robin's nosferatsu hitboxgit gud
>>337930690
He got a buff to his inhale once
Checkmate DDD memers
>>337930737
Im going to need a source on that picture
buff ness recovery
>>337932662
They need to bring back his extended yoyo when charged.
>>337932175
Considering ftilt 1 and 2 hitboxes aren't busted ftilt 1 comes out on frame 12, yes.
Pressing A three times isn't hard, but actually hitting ftilt 1 is. Plus the reward isn't worth it, which is why no one ever uses it. It's also super punishable on shield.
>>337912732
Buffing everyone won't work as Project M has proven, as buffing everyone will lead to an unbalanced game where everyone has tools, and was a big reason people stopped caring about Project M.
hey bros someone should host a lobby so we can enjoy glorious 1.1.5 before it goes away forever
>>337932758
yes please
>>337911051
I would totally suck shota dick for toon link to have reduced ending and landing lag on his back air.
Did they nerf Corrin?
Can I finally play Corrin without feeling like a piece of shit?
PLEASE LET ME COMBO INTO DAIR WITH FALCO AND SPEED HIM UP BETTER THATS ALL I ASK SAKURAI
>>337932959
The patch is not out yet, dummy
>>337932945
What the hell are you even supposed to use T.Link back air for? It has a weird ass knockback angle that never kills, and comes out just barely too slow to be useful
>>337933038
haven't played it since Corrin and Bayo release, don't know if there where any patches since than
>>337932959
Corrin was already nerfed enough and is a balanced character now.
>>337932959
Corrin's not even top 10, not sure why you feel like a piece of shit playing her.
>>337933240
>Corrin is balanced
ahahahaha
>>337933161
Corrin is a bit slower, I don't believe her counter is as stupid anymore, and she does like... 1% less damage than before IIRC
>>337933287
Other than the very fast side b she doesn't have a lot going on for her. Still one of the more solid swordfighters though.
>>337933161
There's been one patch since their release. Corrin is slower and has less knockback on Uair, Fair(?), and the counter. Less damage and knockback sprinkled throughout pretty much.
>>337933161
There was one more patch since their release and Corrin was nerfed inhisaerial %, counter and a bit of speed
Still good tho
>>337931248
You just kinda proved my point scrub. The characters with the most options will always be the best. Nerfing this just makes them bad characters like the rest of the cast. I say this as a Kirby/Marth main, nerfs arent good...ever. Players should learn the game they have and develop around it.
>>337933386
>Fuckhuge range, literally doesn't have to approach because of reach.
>7 frame dragon lance bullshit
>Can STUNLOCK fast fallers into a zero death
>Recovery makes her immune to most gimping attempts
>>337915371
Rest should just always star KO like it does in melee, and the knock back should be altered so that in some situations you can DI to the side blast zones and be able to punish if your good.... Like in melee
Can we just play melee?
Haven't played in months. How's mai boy Shulk looking these days?
>>337933475
Are you really saying that Diddy should kill you from a HOO HAA at 90% which is especially tough because he has a banana that lets him have free grabs?
Please don't even balance a game ever
Nerf Bayonetta, Rosalina and Greninja
>>337933130
>What the hell are you even supposed to use T.Link back air for
Right now, nothing really aside from unpredictability. I'm hoping that it could be buffed to become a good neutral game and edge guard tool like in Brawl
http://youtu.be/05QkYCgkca4
>Patch is 65 MB on Wii U and 325 MB on 3DS
Holy shit that can't just be balance changes especially for 3DS
WE NEW CHARACTERS NOW BOYS WOLF IMMINENT
>>337933630
His landing frames got reduced and got more power on some moves in the Cloud patch
That shit was 5 months ago tho
>>337932758
>>337932920
That would be a nerf though. The charge hitbox sucked. He'd much rather want to be able to charge dsmash at ledge since it's really good at catching recoveries.
The only way it'd be good is if they made it multi-hit like Corrin's fsmash.
>>337933561
she's good but not close to being one of the worst offenders in the game, especially after the nerfs
>>337933665
Guess what.adapt
>>337933287
The only "broken" moves Corrin has is counter and a highly punishable side smash. She's just your average spokesman besides that.
>>337933828
I'm glad you aren't in charge
>>337910310
why are we still getting updates? was sakurai's team fucking disbanded or not?? i really don't like the inconsistency. he keeps saying "this is the last patch" and then a month later surprise, another patch
thought he didn't consider smash4 to be a competitive game? so why bother balancing it?
>>337933721
I told you guys it's happening
>>337933828
I guess if the development team makes it so that Sheik's fair kills you instantly then I should adapt right?
>>337934009
He never said anything about "last patch", just No more DLC.
Give me more Zelda buffs plz.
Sakurai has never said Smash was going to stop getting patches. He said no more characters and that he won't be working on it.
>>337933692
One of these things is not like the other
>>337934009
>thought he didn't consider smash4 to be a competitive game? so why bother balancing it?
That is strange to me too. I always thought that balancing was just a thing his team did on breaks while creating new characters and stages and not the main focus of patches
>>337933828
>>337933665
You really wanted a game where Diddy and Sheik invalidated the rest of the cast?
There's nothing to "adapt" to there. You got grabbed by Diddy and died at 70.
Good games are balanced via top tier nerfs and low tier buffs. You can buff low tiers but it doesn't matter if Diddy and Sheik are still bodying them post-patch since they just went from 4 leagues ahead of them to 3 leagues ahead of them.
Niggas don't remember 3DS Sheik. If 3DS Sheik was as developed as Sheik is now, everyone would have quit this game by now. She could rack up damage and keep characters out just as well as she can now and her moves actually KILLED.
Bouncing fish killed like ~25-30% earlier, uair killed earlier, fair used to do 7%, bair was basically Melee bair etc etc
Developed 3DS Sheik honestly would have eaten pre-patch Diddy alive.
>>337934375
I'm pretty sure it's the Bamco crew providing all the patches, not Sakurai's team.
>>337931248
Bayonetta has gotten top 8 in all the tourneys I've seen.
She's a godtier character who is so OP she can carry a shit player to Top8, over and over I've seen this. and the scary thing is she rarely even needs to Witch Time.
plus you know, 0-to-death combos
but yeah totally she is a fair and balanced character and does not exemplify the concept of "pay to win" at all
>>337934294
This patch is way to large to be just balance changes unless it's a major overhaul of mechanics there has to be a character in this patch as well
>>337934375
He said he wanted to create a even mix between causal and competitive with smash 4. Though his balance patches have been more aimed at competitive play recently so
>>337934207
This.
Last patch for Zelda was amazing but she still has some untapped potential I think.
>>337934573
maybe with sakurai gone they can balance the gravity to melee levels and make the game actually fun on a competitive level
i remember when people argued High Gravity + Smooth Lander should be allowed at tourneys, the only issue being it completely fucks over the recovery of certain UpB moves (Duck Hunt, Sonic, Megaman, etc)
>Pikachu was once top 3
>People including Zero and a few other players are saying he's not even top 10 now due to shit tournament results and the fact Esam is the only notably good pikachu player
Please help pika sakurai, I want to see him succeed
>>337927693
Probably his weight to hitbox ratio had him fall out of it unintentionally.
>>337927789
Hers automatically finishes after dealing around 19% because the devs understood that it'd be an infinite.
>Smash attacks come out a little faster
>Smash attacks end a little faster.
>Deep breathing lasts as long as a Monado art.
>Make her throws useful.
Aside from some luck-dependent spikes and bair she has fuck-all for knockout moves. Then her deep breathing has huge risks for a whopping five second buff that you won't have time to use again until the next stock.
Have any of you considered the huge ass update to the 3DS is to fix the smashhax they know is going on
Anything that is coming out besides that is minor gameplay changes that none of you wantedand mii costumes
>>337934574
Bayo has gotten top 8 at a single majors, not even top 4.
Mewtwo won a major before Bayo did. Fuck off.
tr4sh is anticompetitive anyways, who cares
>>337929103
To be fair, Sakurai is also hoping to god that he isn't in charge of smash 5.
>>337928493
honestly, add end lag to his charge so he can actually be punished for doing so and cloud is good.
>tfw wolf gets datamined
>>337935046
They can't fix the hacks by updating Smash. That requires an actual wii u firmware update.
>>337935062
And then that same Mewtwo got wrecked by a Bayonetta that just did Up-b on shields into the simplest Bayonetta combo out there
>>337927572
>You know realized that coincidentally, Zer0 has had hand "issues" for an entire patch
>the patch where sheik was nerfed and where bayo was still considered new
>>337930729
This is melee levels of bad hitboxes. This is if dark souls 2 were a fighting game.
Will it comes soon enough to be EVO legal?
Buff Greninja please.
>trying to upload the last of my replays
>cannot connect to server
TURN ON CNN
IT'S HAPPENING
>>337935524
It comes out on this month so I think it will have enough time for people to know what it contained
>>337935524
It's coming before the end of May so most likely unless they pull that " We don't know if they have game breaking glitches" bullshit they did with BEAST 6.
Not that Bayo every won a tournament that matter before but she definitely won't take EVO now
>>337935804
If you can't connect to For Glory then it's actually happening
>>337935460
>This is melee levels of bad hitboxes
>>337935804
Some jap on twitter said it is unlikely to happen today because the update to the servers is on some other day so I wouldn't worry
>>337935518
He really has kept us waiting, huh?
>>337936040
Melee has shit hitboxes don't kid yourself, and I'm not referring to just Marth's grab range
>>337935937
>she definitely won't take EVO now
But what ifshe wasn't nerfed at all?
>>337935921
>>337935937
I thought it was tonight since I read something about maintenance happening.
>>337936191
Bowser's pivot grab range is just as bad in 4
Smash in general just has terrible hitboxes because despite it being the fourth entry they still don't know how to do hitboxes.
It had shitty hitboxes then and it does now
>>337936225
Still doubt it, she has had strong results but still no wins. She cracks into Too 8 occasionally but the reason she's number one is the frequency of players finishing in Top 32 and 16 with her
>>337936191
There is nothing I can think of in melee that's as bad as some of the pivot grabs in 4 or snake's uptilt in brawl
>>337910764
haha xDDdD ; ] ebin my friend
>Retards calling fo bayo nerf
>hasn't won a single major and her witch twist can be easily sDIed out of with a majority of the cast (see esams vid)
Wew lads. I don't think anyone needs nerfs anymore, I would like to see buffs for shulk, jiggs, samus (she's so close to being good), and palutana
zelda and ganon are a lost cause, their movesets are just flat out shit and no amount of buffs will really help them unless they get remade
>>337914087
his buff is when he takes off the stethoscope
Hmm
But will EVO use this patch or do pre-patch?
>>337936470
>>337936882
Bowser makes a bit of sense being he's a big fucker he doesn't have stubby arms. I'm not defending and Smash game's hitboxes they are all retarded, Melee included. Marth grabs as far as his sword reaches, the existence of Jiggs Bair which she can spam in melee, Ness and Kirby's pitfiul attempt of a grab hitbox, the existence of shine, etc.
Ready for disappointment
>>337934776
Excelt t was Namco that did Sm4sh
They balanced it the way the game is, with or without Sakurai it's the fucking same who balanced it
>Melee levels
Oh shut the fuck up, Melee's tiers are more retarded but barely noticeable because of the smaller cast
I hardly play my 3DS version anymore. That being breaking down.
>>337937057
She has a way disproportionate amount of Top 32-8 finishes with a ton of players however l. It's not just theory crafting she's clearly OP anyone can see that. You have to play the entire match with the fact Witch Time can come whenever and totally mess you up. Plus it's absolutely asinine how easy it is to edge guard with her. Her Neutral B alone literally invalidates characters like Dorf, Falcon, or Ness from making it back to stage
>>337910310
So, maybe it's because I just woke up but how the fuck am I supposed to see this in english?
>>337937251
Already been discussed. if it's coming in may, then it will be post-patch.
I just don't want them to nerf peach in any way.
Not even asking for buffs (though that would be nice).
>>337935062
the only reason bayo isn't actually winning these tourneys is because people who pick bayo are typically letting her carry them with her braindead combos and 0 to death.
>>337914595
>>337924228
It's almost like this is the first smash game you guys have ever played.
Either nerf links range on his tilts or fix the fact they all have insane knockback, it's honestly pretty ridiculous and he doesn't need it considering his up and side smash have suction to help guarantee kills anyway.
>>337938748
If Melee suddenly got patches people would have the same argument
Being able to buff and nerf people has turned the communities into shitters who can't adapt and instead whines for more patches
>>337914340
Fuck off aloof
>>337937057
she won japanese tournaments which are basically majors
>Let's play in a meta with a character who has frame data that makes him untouchable, can combo like nothing, combos are almost all inescapable and lead to Zero-deaths and insanely high damage output, like 0-80, has a amazing recovery so if you do manage to knock them off stage they can get back like its nothing, have a amazing off stage game to the points it's not even worth trying to recover once your knocked off and is able to kill really early with just about anything because that sure sounds fun!
Oh wait it's not because that describes Brawl Meta Knight. When your balance is shit and you face OP characters there is no reason to not use that OP character much like Brawl Meta Knight. You might as well do away with the rest of the cast as they will never beat you.
But you'll just adapt to it right :^)
>>337910310
If Bayo doesn't get completely wrecked I'm not going to play 1v1 anymore. That shit is just not fun.
>>337939759
Yes? Just adapt to it. I seriously doubt you play at a competitive tournament level, so tiers probably mean nothing to you. So just adapt.
>>337910310
Doesn't matter, not a serious fighting game
>>337939759
>brawl MK
>insane combos
you really don't know what you're talking about.
>>337939937
I don't but I like to watch them and watching OP character versus OP character isn't entertaining. What's the point in having other characters when I can just use the instant win button instead? My gun kills in 5 hits and never misses but this guys gun kills in 1 and never misses, I can just adapt to that tho right?
>>337940193
Yes. Also.
>Watching people play games instead of playing them yourself
I JUST WANT MEWTWOS GRAB HITBOX FIXED,THATS IT!
>>337940448
>Its impossible to do both
>Won't refute and single thing I say
So you just baiting then well congrats you got me feel better now?
>>337937361
>Excelt t was Namco that did Sm4sh
Why do retards keep saying this? Sakurai has gone on record saying he works on balancing in sm4sh before they finished the DLC.
>>337910310
How can you buff Bayo without fundamentally changing how she works?
>>337940871
Post-Release, it was ALL Namco-Bandai
Sakurai only worked with characters and stages. Sakurai hasn't touched this game since he finished Corrin and Bayo.
He's on vacation and probably playing with his cat while planning his next game before coming back in the next game
pac-man buffs
please
>>337940756
I don't have to refute anything you say. This shit's been in Smash Bros up until just recently with Smash 4, and everybody just dealt with it. Meta Knight being OP? Everybody deals with it and tries their best to outplay them. Then there's Melee where if the IC grabs you once, no matter what health you have, you're dead. Same applies to Marth against certain characters. One grab at any percent and it's over. And you know what? People adapt to it, so shut up.
>>337941231
If anything, balance patches turned the Smash community into entitled crybabies.
>>337941231
>Something was broken before so we shouldn't ever try to fix it
>>337941491
Yes. Melee is so broken that it's considered the most tournament viable game in the series. Come on.
>>337941809
>6 tourney viable characters
>high-level play relies on exploitation of the physics engine
Definition of a broken game
>>337914806
>>337914471
What I'm hoping for for my Jiggs:
>Sing works pretty much like Ryu's Focus Attack now. You can cancel it by double tapping
>Greatly increase Roll Out's power, so it's on par with Falcon's knee or Dong's aerial ballet
>Unnerf Pound
>More aerial momentum
>Buff air speed in general
>>337941809
its true, i have honestly never seen a more bugged competitive game in my life, hell all high level play involves abusing exploits and glitches non stop, its ridiculous
>>337942134
This.
>>337915537
>posting tfw with no pic showing face.
Don't you miss the ability to downboat yet?
>>337924003
Please just adjust one or two things.
>>337941809
Yeah but Melee is competitive but it's physics engine, insane levels of tech and just how incredibly fast high level Melee play is.
Smash 4 is like the ultimate medium ground of something compared to Melee and Brawl.
Smash 4 had the best benefits of balance patches and new fighters.
Melee will never have that but if it ever did, it'll tear up the meta worst than any video game ever because no one will be used to it and those changes will piss 70% of fans off.
AKA: Why Melee HD probably won't happen
>>337941809
>>337942134
>>337942234
>I have never played Melee beyond free for all with the neighborhood kids when I was 10
Please stop pretending you know what you're talking about.
>>337941231
>Just shut up and try your best!
You fucking retard. People did that, Meta Knight is Brawl was so overcenteralizing and OP he got banned because "trying your best" doesn't do anything when the character your facing always has a advantage over you regardless of what you do.
Wobbling in Melee is lame but the Ice Climbers have more than enough flaws so it doesn't make them broken, their are characters who either have a advantage over Icies or go even it isn't like Brawl Meta Knight who has zero losing or even match ups. Even Melee Fox doesn't auto win all his matchup a despite being the number one character.
That's the issue with Bayonetta, she's the number one character who DOESNT have any losing or even match ups she has a advantage at all times. It wouldn't mean as much if she weren't easy to play but her Zero-Deaths are brainless. You are such a gigantic retard
MEWTWO NEEDS TO BE NERF NOW
>>337919580
>G&W buffs
Please no.
I can beat little macs, Bayo's, and flowchart spamming Ness mains online, but I've literally never beat a Game & Watch.
Maybe it's because G&W mains have to work harder idk but I really can't beat him
>mfw they've been saving up all the Jigglybuffs BECAUSE she's a joke character
>Samurai buffs 'em to high heaven, disregarding balance, and then announces that it was the final balance patch
>>337929103
Sakurai's absence is not going to turn the next Smash game into a Melee renaissance. I can assure you of that.
>>337942718
Except I have. I've even entered tournaments.
With one exception (a Link who was beyond trash), I've only fought the top-level tourney viable characters.
But you can pretend like your game has character diversity when it's stagnant as fuck. Even the winners of tourneys have been stagnant ever since the term "5 gods" came about
>>337941459
This
>>337942992
>flowchart spamming Ness mains online
UGH.
>>337918426
No one ever said there wouldn't be more patches, he said they were done making DLC.
>>337943242
anon stop, I've already given up all hope of any buff at all
>>337943447
>>337942992
PK FIRE
PK FIRE
PK FIRE
PK FIRE
PK FIRE
PK FIRE
PK FIRE
Are they at 120%? yes
Backthrow
Part of me really wants Palutena to be buffed but the other part of me doesn't want meta sheep shitters flocking to her. I've been making her work since day fucking one on the 3DS.
>>337942882
>Meta Knight is Brawl was so overcenteralizing and OP he got banned
Is he even still banned in singles?
>>337943786
How bad are you to get hit by pk fire at all. Just fucking shield and punish
>>337943786
>Can't get out of PK Fire
>Getting beat by a average projectile no one has any business using in the neutral other than mix up
What's with all you shitters?
>>337943786
PK FIRE> GRAB > PUMMEL > DOWNTHROW >FAIR> SHORTHOP FAIR> PK THUNDER
I love it. It's so dumb.
Is it dropping today?
>>337928587
Just spam gordos every now and then and use the first two jabs and only them.
Ariels are ok
>>337944156
Oh man I don't know about you but i'm going on FG right now to check and see how many people can't handle pk fire spam
>>337944156
>What's with all you shitters?
I'l admit, I'm a damn shitter. But what do you do when you get hit with a PK Fire and then they just take literally two steps forward and you get carried into another PK Fire
Whats the secret
>>337942992
I keep fucking forgetting that his dash attack and upsmash have armor.
>>337944431git gud
>>337944202
No. Sometime later this month.
>>337910310
>tfw your main will never get the buffs he needs
>tfw your main will forever be bottom tier
>>337944431
SDI up and away from them
>>337914087
Dr. Mario is the Dan of Smash, he's not supposed to be good.
>>337944805
Lucario isn't even close to bottom tier. He's pretty fucking strong, just not ridiculous like some of the characters better than him. Definitely top 20.
>>337942718
ah yes, keep wanking off to yore fox mirror matches on battlefield, we must all just suck.
>>337944156
I can handle grabspam and pk fire spam, but backthrow infuriates me every time. It's the bare minimum to kill.
>inb4 don't stand at ledge
His moves also pressure like a motherfucker. You think I don't know to not stand next to the ledge? I get pushed there.
>>337944413
Quite a few can actually it's not too hard
>>337944431
As a Ness main there is a lot you can do. Obviously avoiding it is the best. PKF has a long start up and Ness will announce he's doing it when he uses it unless your attacking you have more than enough time to shield it and then punish will Ness is in end lag.
If you do get it SDI away from it up and you can jump out of it, some characters with really fast jabs like Falcon and Fox can simply jab through it preventing Ness from grabbing them. Characters with good rolls can roll out of it but that can get you hit by another one so be careful
Now granted if you get hit by PKF and your close to Ness you'll likely be grabbed before you can do anything, also if they hit you while your landing from above you can't do anything
>>337939185
>nerf link
PLease do not do this
>>337945057
His moves also gave shit reach and he gets out ranged easily so don't let him in with good spacing and zoning, he's also pretty slow so it's not too difficult to do. Any sword character aside Roy or Shulk can space him out easily, even Lucina
>>337944805
He's mid tier dude.
A buff would be nice as hell for him nevertheless, I'd kill for faster startup om his backair, even if it means they gotta weaken it to compensate.
>yfw Samus gets nerfed
>>337945792
She got a buff last patch and she migtht get an other one for this one.
>>337945792
but y
he's so shit tho
Mewtwo, Jiggly puff and Mr Game & Watch need buffs. Ryu, Cloud, Bayo and Corrin need serious nerfs.
I'm in FG and I LOVE taking down their first stock first then suiciding off the edge with kirby
>>337946029
>Wanting to nerf all decent DLC characters
Fuck off my dude, the only one who deserves any nerfs is Bayo.
>>337946029
>Mewtwo
>buff
>>337945914
I want a faster grab for Samus and I would be fine with nothing else
>Shieks weight reduced by 1
>Nosferatu start up reduced by 1 frame
>Kirby gets buffed again
>Sakurai continues to buff his own characters and ignore other characters
>Bayonetta gets nerfed
>Jigglypuff ignored
>Overall the top tiers shuffle around a little and the bottom tiers go largely unaffected.
That is my prediction.
Please don't nerf Cloud
Please give Falco some much needed mobility
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_071A0D8fwk
>>337946384
>Sakurai continues to buff his own characters and ignore other
But the KI cast has remained largely unchanged since launch.
>>337945940
>he
>>337946683
Kid Icarus isn't really his IP, he was just handed the most recent game.
All he cares about is buffing kirby every fucking patch. I mean metaknights gone from D to A tier.
>>337914087
Never unfortunately. If they do buff him it'll probably be another fucking fair buff.
>>337946728
>has
>>337945940
Shits n giggles.
>>337946795
>All he cares about is buffing kirby every fucking patch.
Yeah but only in the areas he already fucking excels in and not the ones he needs.
Oh sure, I really needed more knockback and power on my smashes! It's not like they were already great. They sure make up for this severe lack of approach options.
>>337946795
Meta Knight got a minor buff he was already A tier when the game came out people just didn't use him then, and her got nerfed last patch. Kirby gets buffs but so do others each patch like Marth or DK and you can't use this favoritism meme if your not going to include the Kid Icarus characters, Pits have been mid tier since day one and ignored. Palutena is nearly at the bottom and she just got one minor patch that did nothing
>>337946536
>that first match
WHHHAT
>>337947269
>approach options
>trash 4
ayy lmao play a fighting game then bed wetters
>>337947548
ok memelee
>>337944805
He buffs himself the more you suck already
Apparently the patch is 3 am Euro time.
>>337948489
Wait it's already about to drop? I figured it'd be later this month from what the announcement said.
>>337948609
Peeps are saying that the Japanese said its out in the next 24. May be wrong though.
>>337912239
>Buffing Duh Cunt
wow I'm glad I quit Smash 4 ages ago
>>337946536
>that first match
I don't have sound
this is so confusing
Wish List:
>Decrease height on Up B by 1/3 to stop 0 to deaths
>Make Bayonetta go into freefall after second Up B
>Get rid of Bayo's 3rd jump glitch
>Increase Witch Twist's startup to 7 frames and decrease the hitbox
>Make Bayonetta's rapid jab more like Bowser Jr's
>Increase base knockback and decrease damage on Cloud's Uair
>Give Limit Cross Slash more endlag and less knockback growth
>Make Upthrow rest a true combo on Jigglypuff
>Turn Bowser Jr's Upthrow into a better combo throw, comboing with Up B at kill percents
>Make Wii Fit Trainer's Up Throw combo into Uair at kill percents and Down Throw combo into Nair at combo percents
>Increase Zelda's ground speed and decrease grab startup to 7 frames
>Make King Dedede's Back Throw kill at 120 at the ledge and Down Throw combo into aerials
>Increase Palutena's jab and grab range while changing Dthrow to make Dthrow Uair work despite DI at kill percents
>Make Dthrow Uair reliable on G&W while decreasing startup on all smashes by 3-4 frames.
>Increase Kirby's aerial and ground mobility to be on par with Mario
>Make Samus's Back throw kill at around 130 on the edge and Uthrow kill at 140
>Shave 2-3 frames of startup on every move Ganon has.
>Do the same thing with Shulk and Charizard
>Do the same thing with Roy while increasing the size of the sweetspot
>Give Bowser's Dair frame 1 super armor for keks
>Lower all jump squats to at least 6, with Jigglypuff's becoming frame 2
>>337949087
>roy
>needing increased sweetspot
Patch is out
>>337949087
Also:
>make Dthrow Uair reliable on Duck Hunt, make nair frame 3, and put autolink angles on all multihit attacks
>Increase Falco's ground and air speed to be on par with Mario's
>Increase Link's ground speed on par with Ike's while making Nair frame 3
>>337949847
Almost got me to reply, then I saw Corrin.
>>337936040
>Marth's Jedi grab is a reasonable hitbox
>>337949087
>All that fucking list of shit
Shit anon I'll tell you what we really need
>Bayonetta does 1% less damage on her smash attacks
>Bayonetta weighs one point less
>Kirby knockback growth increased on all smash attacks
>Marth and Lucina get an extra % on their down air
There you go. Perfect patch
>>337942292
>tfw = that feel when
you retard newfag
>>337949087
>Make Bayo'shall jab like Jr.'s
No. No one with a rapid jab deserves that.
Ganondorf is mine...
>>337912845
>quoth the man who probably whines about other characters
>>337950874
>>337950921
Nice try but Ganondorf ain't my waifu
Is it out yet?
>>337950494
>Marth and Lucina get an extra % on their down air
Woah, it's fucking nothing.
Why don't you try giving them something like decreasing the downair's startup frames by 2?
>>337951001
exactly, this anon >>337950921 kidnapped your real waifu and disguise her as ganondorf
>>337950921
lol, barafags.
>>337951135
3 am Euro time according to rumours.
>nerfing top tiers instead of making low tiers good
>>337949847
>Removed from the game
Fuck yes
>>337951160
Just stop talking anon, you are just embarrassing yourself by revealing that you know nothing of character balancing
>>337945243
>nerf link
Please actually do this
>>337951457
I mean, if every character could be put on the level of Bayonetta that'd be great but it's just not gonna happen, man.
YOU BETTER FUCKING FIX PACMAN SAKAURI
>>337949847
>SDI multiplier: 1.5 -> 10.5
>>337951825
>Increased the number of frames for Pacman's grab to be active by 2
>Decreased weight by 1
>Increased hydrant HP
>>337952093
>Increased hydrant HP
>>337952093
>>337952405
>>Increased hydrant HP
I would consider that a nerf actually
>>337952852
They're all nerfs, that was the point. Slower grab, earlier deaths, worse hydrant.
>>337951614
He isnt even fast enough and his projectiles are ok. It doesn't matter how strong his attacks are if they can be punished ez
>>337952093
dood i'd be up for a longer grab time
I ask for two (2) (dos) things. A Falcon buff. Doesn't have to be big, give me back the 1% you took out of bair and uair and I'll be happy.
A Cloud nerf. A real one this time, not "he takes .4 more seconds to charge his shit" nerf, but something to tone down his disgustingly good neutral. (fucking bair is +5 or some shit on shield like what the fuck).
>Link will never lose his projectiles and become the super deadly heavyweight we deserve
>>337953173
>Once Pac-Man's grab reaches its Apex the hitbox disappears entirely.
>>337946795
>He doesn't know about THE Meta Knight nerf
He went from competing with Sheik and ZSS to being probably weaker than Mario.
>>337911719
As a Kirby main I'd benefit, but then everybody will hate me for it.
He's probably good on his smash speed alone.
>>337911719
Give Kirby better air mobility that's really all he needs. He's a Pink Puffball but is slower than Bowser and Charizard in the air.
>>337953684
they nerfed his jump by gravity
>>337953118
His tilts actually come out pretty quick for all the kill power they have, he also has the problem of having no lag after his attacks so he can attack with a neutral A even if you block and aren't pushed far enough way to not punish, that's why I'm suggesting either a nerf on his range on the tilts or their ridiculous knockback.
One good thing about Pac-Man's grab is that it never fails to punish a spot dodge desu
new bread?
>>337910572
>le XD
out
![Ganondorf[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/gQWWSfO.jpg "Ganondorf[1]")
![1457979758811[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/2aOD8Od.jpg "1457979758811[1]")
![mzm_samus[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/hYtAnmM.png "mzm samus[1]")
