I still don't know how to feel about this game...
What about you?
It's an excellent game. Second best Metal Gear Solid game overall.
The story is trash, but the series had already been ruined beyond repair story-wise with 4 anyways.
I think it was a great ride and pretty much one of the best games of last year. Story was kind of weak, but so does the story in every Metal Gear tbqh. That didn't make it a bad game, at least for me. MGO I think is also greatly underrated, it can be really fun at least in PS4
>>337691749
7/10, decent game, but awful MGS game.
I played it a ton when it came out, but the "ending" left a bad taste in my mouth and I doubt I'll pick it up again.
>>337691749
I like it, but I honestly could not understand the impossible levels of hate it got on here though. Maybe it was how long people waited for it that made them so upset? Which is why I think in the future people will regard it more highly. If you didn't wait 2 and a half or 3 years or whatever, and you just saw it on the playstation store and downloaded it on a whim I think this game would really knock your dick in the dirt. That and I think if it just wasn't called "Metal Gear" it would have been much more well received. People have really strong emotions tied to that series and judge it based on that, and not it's merits or flaws as a stand alone game. It's kind of like if you're the youngest of 7 kids and you have the same 5th grade teacher all your brothers had, that teacher is going to walk into that classroom with some preconceived notions about you (for better or for worse) and it's going to color how they treat you.
>>337691749
I will never get hyped for any game ever again. Fucking Kojima, what a fucking fuck.Fuck.
He literally had one fucking job - to link the story. Every fucking other aspect of the game was complete - music, gameplay, characters. The only thing that was fucked up was the story -Kojimas part. He should have worked on this damn thing instead of posting Joost pics on Twitter.
>>337692887
See, I still think it was a good idea for him to post those Joost pics on twitter.
>>337691749
The more I think about it, the less I like it. The game was more Far Cry than Metal Gear. The controls are good, but the level and mission design were terrible.
Of course, the worst part of the game is the story. Most of the time, you just don't care about what you're doing. There's no sense of overarching progression or accomplishing anything. XOF is barely in the game. The game just keeps introducing new and increasingly contrived ideas that undermine what happens in the other games. It didn't need any of that.
>>337692054
I agree with this. The game really drops the ball in a lot of areas.
>Only one small section with dense MGS3 like forest
>Bosses aren't that fun to fight
>The open world is limiting as fuck. For instance Afghanistan has a bunch of mountains that only serve to fork the road and prevent you from going all over like they claimed
>Grinding for soldiers and resources
>Mission objectives get repetitive quickly
>Bad guys aren't very smart or resourceful
>Stealth options don't really expand despite being in a bigger world
Game would've benefitted if it was just a bunch of really dense levels like MGS4's Acts.
>>337693586
Bosses sucked and there were what, two in the game?
>>337693938
There were more than two but they honestly didn't feel like boss fights
Man on Fire (controlled by Tretij Rebenok; horseback)
Parasite Unit (Mist)
Quiet
Metal Gear Sahelanthropus (controlled by Tretij Rebenok)
Parasite Unit (Armor)
Man on Fire (controlled by Tretij Rebenok)
Eli
Female Parasite Unit (Camo)
Parasite Unit (Armor)
Metal Gear Sahelanthropus (controlled by Eli and Tretij Rebenok)
>>337693586
This pretty much
>>337692593
People will definitely regard it more highly in the future. I think the majority of the hate comes from the fact this is the last Metal Gear Solid game ever and people know this.
Fuck me, V is a million times better in gameplay content than 4 and is only a ninth as bad as 4 story-wise. You now have fags pretending 4 was fucking good and a good ending to the series, despite the fact it raped the fuck out of the previous entries and basically destroyed the story.
OPEN WORLD MGS
Imagine all the easters eggs and different missions with lots of side mission characters, but no, just empty desert.
>>337691749
STANDING
>>337691749
The thing I hate the most is not having all your gear at once. I don't want to call and pickup shit every time I wanna switch between rocket launchers and sniper rifles. Yes I know it's unrealistic but it's fun
I had fun with it but the repetition annoyed me. Like "BOSS GET DOWN" ever damn mission.
>>337696418
ON THE EDGE
10/10 Gameplay
5/10 Environment
Not enough variety. Basically only 2 settings for an open word game.
2/10 Plot
Criticizing it more harshly because every single other MG game was very plot driven while V was incomplete and rushed.
I believed the hype for V. It taught me never to get excited about a release. It won't live up to it.
>>337691749
I played MGS3 before this.
I think that really compounded how incredibly disappointed I was with V.
I don't see the gameplay as the second coming of christ like most people do, I mean it's literally far cry meets splinter cell watered down beyond recognition, it's missing a lot of TECHNOLOGY as well in my opinion, for example why do I have a generic ACTION button that changes with context? I have a keyboard with a fuckload of buttons and yet here I am pressing E to do a million of things that gets screwed constantly when they overlap, fucking christ the menus are even worse with no cursor at all, this is nothing but a shitty port.
what killed the fun for me were the stupid ass armored enemies that resit EVERYTHING but gigantic super penetrating bullets shot at the speed of light or fucking rockets, why give me the option to tacke missions like I want when the only reliable way to knock them down is to run up to them and click once? seriously, this is bad game design
>>337697194
>I mean it's literally far cry meets splinter cell watered down beyond recognition
The people who pretend MGSV has 10/10 gameplay never played those games so they dont know any better.
>>337697194
>being a PCuck
>>337694621
>Eli
>boss
ayylmao noscoped that bitch from a hill and then tied the bitch nigga up
mgo was at least semi full, this dlc barricade and SURVIVAL mode nearly killed it, i cant even find games anymore
>>337691749
>Can't have a fast rappel out of the helicopter when landing in a hot zone
>Can't even have a gunner in the cabin with you or use your buddy to provide cover while getting out of the chopper
>Can't have DD bury bodies or drag them away. He can fulton them though.
>Can't climb up trees and ambush people
>Can't even climb up sides of buliding anyway you want like Ass Creed
>can't stealthily bust into a room and clear it out
>Can't even swim or have areas to infiltrate via swimming
>Can't use that giant metal gear Huey made for you
>can't partner up with the other factions roaming around in Africa to have rudimentary allies in the field
For all the talks about freedom and new ways to play it just felt like a prettier Peacewalker
I'll just come out and say it.
Phantom pain should've been ground zero type levels that were walled off but packed with content instead of the pointless open world memetic afghanistan.
I literally uninstalled phantom pain after completing it and now just boot up some ground zeroes side ops every now and then to have REAL fun.
>no equipment bloat
>no OP fulton
>actually big boss
>cool secrets scattered around
>densely packet urban environment with cameras, soldiers patrolling and vehicles everywhere
>varied environment
>not a single place without a purpose
>music is better for some god damn reason (seriously look it up on youtube, the score of phantom pain ambient music is fucking garbage and forgettable, almost as if they switched composer)
>>337697417
Yeah I game on PC, 1v1 me fgt
>>337697736
HGW worked on the score for GZ but didn't for TPP.
The truth is that Rising is the real MGS5
>>337691832
? that makes no sense though. V was a chance to repair the story because it wasn't a continuation of 4, it was a prequel. if kojima had just done a big boss origin story kind of thing without going pants on head retarded it would've been great, he completely fucked up. you can't use 4 to deflect V's failures
>>337691749
It hurts, so man broken promises.
The game should have been like GZ and the hospital intro. I was so hyped when I finished the intro, that was probably the best moment of the game.
>>337691749
boring disappointment
Open world gameplay didn't add anything and didn't really change up the gameplay from the set pieces of peace walker and other entries.
>>337697736
Ground Zeroes should've been part of TPP, making them separate at all was a terrible idea.
>>337698071
I think you should consider the fact that 4 was only so shit because it tried to include the prequels bullshit inside of it..
The series would easily be so much better if Snake Eater never existed, no matter how decent of a game it was.
>>337697194
i'd still play chaos theory over mgs v. chaos theory has some of the best levels in stealth history whereas mgs v's map design was dreadful.
>>337697806
>he games on pc
>he actually uses a mouses
Have fun with your artritis la
>>337698124
Pretty much sums the whole game up. There's so little story ever explained that they literally just tell you the whole plot in a ten minute jeep ride.
And of course Venom still says nothing, and does nothing.
>>337691749
It's definitely an oddball. I don't know how it will be looked at historically. IMO it would've been the single greatest game of all time if its production was managed better, but it's still a 9.5 out of ten and tied for the best MG game.
>>337691749
It's the worst in the series but still pretty fun and a solid 7/10
>>337698071
Yeah I don't get why they try to sympathize everyone again
>HURR BIG BOSS IS REALLY BAD
>NO HE ISN"T THE PATRIOTS ARE
>HURR THE PATRIOTS ARE REALLY BAD
>NO THEY AREN'T SKULLFACE IS
Paz was also shit. God what the fuck was Kojima thinking?
>releasing an incomplete game for a full price
>absolutely zero chance chapter 3 will ever be finished and released
YES I'M MAD
Quick question for MGS in general:
Is the 3DS version of MGS 3 worth getting?
>>337698267
Nah dude. 4 was shit because it had some legitimately dumb moments.
>Gameplay interrupted every 10 minutes by cinema scenes
>Stupid on rails shooting in France
>That split screen fight against Gekkos and Vamp...ok this was kinda cool
>Super short final area with a shitty Mantis knockoff
>The return to Moses which was cool but it was annoying sneaking past all those robots compared to the mix of human guards and tech
>FOLLOWING SOME FAGGOT WHO WHISTLES
>>337692593
This is a good post.
I just wish V had better mission variety and wasn't so barren.
>>337691749
Just have your own fucking opinions and stop asking /v/ what to think for you.
Does anyone know if the whole kojima vs konami thing really molded this game into what it was?
I love the game. It's one of my favorite games ever, the gameplay is so fun. I knew the story wouldn't be as good as the trailers made it out to be, there's such a small window of story canon so I didn't expect too much.
>>337698913
>>Gameplay interrupted every 10 minutes by cinema scenes
literally every MGS since 2
>>Stupid on rails shooting in France
Every single game since 1 had this
>>Super short final area with a shitty Mantis knockoff
Valid, but it was a decent enough boss
>>The return to Moses which was cool but it was annoying sneaking past all those robots compared to the mix of human guards and tech
Shadow Moses in general was cool, one of the highlights of the game
>>FOLLOWING SOME FAGGOT WHO WHISTLES
Undoubtedly the worst part, yes
4 is much less at fault than V, when we put this all together.
And Reminder that the very worst part, Act 3, is also the one where most time is spent trying to justify all the bullshit that happened in Snake Eater
>Because of Snake Eater, we have Act 3
>>337692593
>5th mainline game
>it's good if you don't compare it to the other ones!
Wew that's retarded. Splinter Cell Blacklist is a better MGS game than V.
>>337691749
>you never actually get these goggles or get to wear the scarf over the mouth
Fucking Kojima
>>337698682
Blame Konami for that one.
>>337699063
Pretty much yes. Konami was already trying to leave gaming for good and Kojima was the last remnant of it. They forced in the FOB content to try and get more cash. It felt forced as fuck and ate up dev-time for sure.
By firing Kojima they basically admitted they wouldn't support it post-launch at all.
Its clear Kojima wanted more time to make further content but got cut off.
Great gameplay, although putting emphasis on the "open world" in the advertising was a mistake
I liked the story, sorry, I actually prefer that kind of non-standard story (and how diluted it was)
However the ending was a fucking downer because it felt like there was no ending. What happens to Diamond Dogs next? Code Talker? How does Kaz get his limbs back to train Solid Snake? And the children & Sahelantropus' conclusion was stolen from us too. It feels like the ending was too abrupt - "lol you weren't really big boss, as we kept hinting since the beginning! you want a bigger sendoff? try to get the nuclear disarmament cutscene in FOBs (microtransactions optional)!"
Also that Skullface jeep ride was some awkward shit
>>337699152
MGS2 and 4 had the worst gameplay to cutscene ratios in the series.
The shooting on rails in 3 and 1 were far superior than 4 because they weren't as hectic and more balanced. Instead of shooting missles and flying drones and robots you're shooting other guys in trucks and bikes
But yes I mostly agree with you. 3 was fine as a prequel, Kojima just tried to force the connection of that game into the lore of the present day games. It didn't really gel at all
>>337699565
DD melds int Outer Heaven
Miller gets prosthetics
Code Talker dies
The less said about baby Liquid and his rugrats and the Reptarbot the better
>>337699565
>Also that Skullface jeep ride was some awkward shit
Yeah, the fact that Boss just sits there silenty while Skull Face is talking nonsense for 10 minutes and then they both just sit there for another 5 minutes until they arrive at the cave was the most anti climatic moment in the whole game.
>>337699139
Is that using Infinite Heaven?
>>337700053
Yeah, I installed it last night and I haven't regretted it.
>>337691749
Did anyone else want a manly battle of CQC and gun shooting with Skullface? I've always loved that 1v1 faggit stuff we see in MGS
>Liquid vs Snake
>Raiden vs Solidus
>Boss vs Naked
>Old Snake vs Liquid Ocelot
>>337691749
Favorite MGS game. GOTY 2015, also probably GOTG.
Venom Snake is my favorite video game character of all time. And the ending to this game is the biggest mindfuck I've felt in my 28 years on this planet. It's incredible and only stupid underage faggots who don't get/appreciate it are the ones complaining about it.
>>337700169
Would you recommend it for a first playthrough?
>>337700053
How much control do I get over free roam patrols with that mod? I know I can do heli patrols, but what about armor and infantry? Can I control how many because I dont want 8 helicopters in one area like all the videos show. Just one or two
>>337700379
You are possibly retarded if that twist came as a surprise. You start the fucking game looking at a mirror seeing different faces. If that wasn't clear enough the AI flat out tells you you aren't BB.
>>337692593
"It's a good game but not a good GAME game"
Yes, we know. But Metal Gear Solid is one of those series that has a strong identity, particularly with regard to story. TO make an open-world stealth game and call it Metal Gear Solid feels like an actual kick in the balls to a lot of fans.
>>337700645
Nope.
Do it after you complete the game, Then it'll give you more stuff to do when you complete the end game.
i got all the story i wanted in MGS4
and then i got more then i would ever wanted
in MGS4
and then it just kept going
so all i wanted in MGSV was good gameplay
thats exatcly what i got
>>337699469
>Kojima wanted more time
>5 years was not enough
Kojimadrones are quite disgusting. Even though he had a huge budget and loads of time he still couldn't finish on deadline.
>>337700893
I don't see why being open world has to ruin the story. Plenty of open world games have a heavy emphasis on plot
>Infamous
>Arkham series
>GTA3+
It's just that Kojima wasted time writing about retarded shit like Kid Liquid and HUey's retardation and Quiet kind of just glaring at things.
>>337700326
None of the bosses were really good. Running away from the MG for the first time was pretty good IF THEY HADN'T SHOWN IT ALREADY.
They seriously showed like 90% of the game before release. They even spoiled most of the cool gadgets and shit.
>>337700956
>horses shitting on trucks is considered good gameplay
>>337700764
>twist
I said nothing about a twist, I said the ending. I knew the twist going into the game, but seeing the ending and how it wraps up is fucking incredible and if you can't understand or appreciate that Kojima wrapped up a question 28 years in the making, then fuck you.
>>337701160
>he doesnt like his horses shiting on trucks
>>337700986
And konami forced him to make FOB's instead of let him work on the singleplayer.
Konamicucks are truly hilarious.
I bet you think all the series that got turned into pachinko machines deserved that treatment as well?
>>337701183
what question?
MGS4 answered everything worth exploring in one game.
>>337701465
>Forced him to make FOB's
Yeah because FOB's sure were intricate and didn't just re-use assets from things already in the base game, yep those must've taken years to develop!
What a sad drone you are.
>>337691749
Missions focusing on indoor areas were the best
>Hospital
>The Honeybee mission
>Codetalker mansion
>The mission for the African Kids that's straight up nightmare fuel
>OKB Zero
>>337701580
Except it didn't. It said nothing on how Big Boss survived the first encounter with Solid Snake. Because he didn't survive, it wasn't him at all. Another man died in his place.
This is what the ending shows us. It shows a time gap where we see Venom Snake 10 years in the future, finding out about Operation Intrude N313 and how he is meant to die at the hands of Solid Snake. Then the mirror shows the Outer Heaven logo, you hear the heavy weapon fire in the background and realize he is going off to die.
It's a fucking crazy ending and extremely well done. The problem is unless you know enough about MG1 you wouldn't get it and think "thats it!? shit!" just like you are right now, you fucking mook.
>>337701881
Nobody cared about that though
>>337701725
What a disgusting cuck you are.
It was multiplayer where it wasn't needed. That takes longer than you cucks think. Although I find it funny that you even believe you have an inkling on an idea on game development.
>>337700956
>my webm
Kek
Here's another version
>>337701881
Pretty much all of that was figured out before the game even launched.
I guess its cool you got the impact of it, but anyone keeping up with the game pre-launch pretty much knew everything since the trailers literally left no mystery to what was going on.
>>337701881
>time gap
They fucked that up. It's clear that it's supposed to be because of the Operation N313 tape but the bionic arm is still visible and he's still in DD gear and in a DD facility (you can tell by the door) and he still has that retarded horn.
Should've gone the extra mile and made a legitmate scene to sell that people think he's Big Boss
Hell I would've settled for Hayter doing a voice over with a small clip of a young Snake entering the compound grounds.
>>337702335
saved thanks
revolver "revolver ocelot" ocelot
>>337702591
Why wouldn't the bionic arm and horn still be visible? It's the same man. And no it's not the same facility, if you pay attention to the reflection it starts off with Diamond Dogs logo and changes to Outer Heaven. At some point in those 10 years, the real Big Boss moves Venom Snake to his fortress in Africa. It's a different location, similar setup.
>>337691749
It's an awful game in every sense of the word:
>lifeless open world
>no level design
>repetitive missions
>the most retarded story in video game history
>zero depth
>literally unfinished
I will never forgive Kojima for how this game turned out.
The pain as a whole was one big train wreck after another. The months leading up to release was like watching your famiry get murdered. Bad news after bad news after bad news. I think Kojima is going to knock it right out of the park on the next one. Fresh game, fresh studio, fresh environment. I really think he's going to shine.
>No fences
>holes in walls
>unguarded huge ass entries
>crawling makes you invisible
why dont they just patch it please
>>337703643
*phantom pain, holy shit
>>337703678
Because robert peeler can only do so much by himself, considering he's the only one still involved with the game in any way.
>>337691749
The journey was far more interesting than the destination. The months of hype and conjecture were FAR more fun that what we ended up having with basically no surprises at all in the game. I still remember the moment where I finish MGS 4 and on the credits it said "And Richard Doyle as Big Boss"... I was "what the?! HOLY SHIT!"...
MGS V is by no means bad but it certainly doesn't deliver considering its pedigree, I would recommend all previous MGS games before recommending MGSV.
>>337691832
> second best Metal Gear Solid game overall.
Shit-tier story mixed with the worst level design in the series to make up for with an open-world? Give me a break.
> series had already been ruined beyond repair story-wise with 4 anyways
MGS4 combined the aloof nature of the first 3 games with a clean resolution without compromising the anti-war themes. "Story ruined" . kek.
>>337692593
But that is how it should be, when you have a franchise name you have to live up to expectations, otherwise just create a new IP or a new name and be done with it.
>>337691749
I had fun playing it, but was and still am dissapointed all the same.
>>337701069
Not a single one of the games you mentioned have a good story let alone a story that could match the expectations of any MGS fan.
>>337703309
Well because Snake knows the real Big Boss who isn't maimed at all like Venom Snake and then he's going to see him again yet this time with a fake arm, a giant horn and stitches all over his face?
Unless Kojima is going to argue Big Boss never met Solid face to face and didn't become a sort of icon to the world at large.
As for the ending, I just checked again on youtube they don't switch out the DD logo at all.
If they would have been straight forward from the beginning and just came out and said that you are not big boss and this is an offshoot game, like a side story, it would have done better. Instead it was glaringly obvious from the first 10 minutes of the game (literally) what was going on and it took 70 hours to get to the point.
>>337704378
Whether you care for the plots or not doesn't change the fact that just because you're open world doesn't mean you can't have a heavy focus on plot like those games prove
And V did have a lot of cutscenes but they just didn't really do anything for the overall story because the script was lousy.
>>337691749
I'm not ever buying KOJIMA games again. The worst money I've ever spent. All that hype over nothing. GTFO of here.
>>337704541
More like first second. The moment you hear "From the man who sold the world" we all already knew that it was doppelganger story. The fun part is I remember posting that the first time we saw the tape and the name of it and people were still in denial that you weren't going to play as BB in MGSV.
MEAT GRAIN VEGETABLE
>>337697650
>For all the talks about freedom and new ways to play it just felt like a prettier Peacewalker
In some aspects I feel more free in PW.
It was good, but not in the way I expected or would have wanted it to.
I would say "a good game but not a good MGS game", but the truth is no MGS is like the others.
I would've preferred if it was closer to Ground Zeroes.
>>337703678
Most KojiPro people left Konami as it seems
>>337698913
When the fuck do you go to France in MGS4?
>>337704378
Arkham Knight alone demolishes MGS3, 4 and V's script brah
I bought the collectors edition
>>337704708
The problem is that the issues with Story heavy games and Open world games are perfectly summed up in those games you mentioned. Since there is an open world setting the game doesn't know when was the last time you were involved with the story so every single time you have to get a quick reminder of what is going on and what are you suppose to do.
That shit in MGS V is rampant and you ended up with a disjointed plot, also it doesn't help that there is no attachment for the people you take and you ended up considering most soldiers that you rescue like another form of resources which hurts the game when you have to play mission 42 (it was that one?), MGS V have shit ton of problems but the worse part is that it has problems the previous MGS games never had.
I cried when it ended, not because it was good, because i've been fooled.
I've been hyped as fuck for this game, but it couldn't get more than one playthrough from me and that is sad, considering i played through past titles at least 5-9 times. MGS4 even 11 times not counting my first MGO experience.
MGO3 is the most dissapointing thing in this, because i thought it could save the game, but is as bland as the game itself.
>>337705141
Yeah it sure does, with the most obvious plow twist ever, SURE it does.
>>337705141
in how bad it is, yeah
>>337705249
>Since there is an open world setting the game doesn't know when was the last time you were involved with the story so every single time you have to get a quick reminder of what is going on and what are you suppose to do.
When is this ever a thing?
>>337691749
I felt like it was distinctly one of the most fun games I've played in the past ~15 years, since the new millenium. That's how I described it
runs great, engine feels/controls tight, feels like a labor of love, lots of cool secrets even though game is unfinished, combat and stealth are both amazing and levels can be completed a billion different ways
fulton killed stealth completely.
you can literally zap any mistakes into thin air, and i really mean literally zap since you get a fucking wormhole.
At least david hayter got away from this train wreck. Best snake remains.
>>337705373
>V fans
>complaining about other games with obvious twists
kek
>>337705531
Are you fucking serious? Have you even played the game?
>>337705218
>waste of money
Same here anon fuck
>>337703678
Since they basically shit out the game with no support and most of the dev-team have left now.
Kojima may have not met deadlines well, but konami truly fucked the game by forcing FOBshit and wasting huge potential.
>>337705141
The twist was as obvious as in MGSV at some point, but not in the first cutscene, i give it that.
Even me, as one that follows the batman universe pretty causally i understood who it was very quick.
But character writing and overall design is better in Arkham Knight. And of course the flow of the story and missions and an actually completed story. I favour Arkham Knight over MGSV any day.
>>337705660
I've played a bunch of Arkham and GTAs. There's never a fucking recap of past events in every mission. There's a scene that moves the plot along and lays out whatever the current mission is.
The only thing I can think of that fits your complaint is Riddler constantly taunting you if you haven't solved his riddles or Hugo Strange spewing ominous shit from his tower
>>337691749
I'm dissappointed in it.
And even if I remove expectations from the equation, it's still a game that I don't feel like playing, and haven't done so in months.
Buddy, just accept that Kojima didn't know how to make a fun video game after all, despite what might have seemed after Peace Walker, and move on with your life.
I hate that we'll never know what truly happened in that game studio that went so wrong. Stupid legal gag orders. Someone will leak it eventually right?
>>337691749
It was good but very incomplete. It needed at least another year to cook. It really hurts how great that game could have been.
>>337705770
>that feel when they didn't make it Talia
Would've made things a fuck ton better.
MGSV really made me think
Can anyone really blame Konami for pulling out of the vidya altogether when they spent millions on MGSV and THIS is the product they have to show for it?
![Quiet-(MGS)-Metal-Gear-фэндомы-ero-cosplay-2943838[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/pqDYOtB.jpg "Quiet-(MGS)-Metal-Gear-фэндомы-ero-cosplay-2943838[1].jpg")
>>337692593
A big part of it was that it was touted as being the be finale in a 25+ year series of games that is beloved, large in part due to its storyline and characters. It was advertised as finally bring the series full circle and closing everything off.
Then it did none of that. Plot holes were left open, new ones were created, there was clear areas of the game where entire sections of plot were cut completely, and the ending, the big cap to the whole decades long history, is a sloppy, self-insertion character "twist", that falls flat.
Kojima's weakest, to say the very least. And a shame that it was his last with the series.
I don't care much for the story. I like the fact that I'm playing a modern Metal Gear game on the PS4. I'm all about the t e c h n o l o g y and other new cool shit they may have added to the series. People who play for the story need to just fuck off and read a novel. Your complaints are irrelevant like a whore crying rape. Not even trolling.
>>337691749
It was really good, my GOTY 2015
>>337706317
>A big part of it was that it was touted as being the be finale in a 25+ year series of games that is beloved, large in part due to its storyline and characters. It was advertised as finally bring the series full circle and closing everything off.
i don't remember it ever being either touted or advertised this way. you assumed these things.
>>337706290
Yea! All they have to show for it is their single best-selling video game ever!
MGSV sold so well that they literally changed their minds and are currently developing a (non-pachinko) Metal Gear without Kojima.
I hate it
I will keep hating it until the day I die
Also I will never ever buy a game that says "Made by Kojima" again. The only reason the first 3 were so good is because the writer on these games was not Kojima. At least not the main writer.
>>337706290
This post really made me think.
There's someone out there gullible enough to think a Triple A company gives a single fuck about the quality of the games they deliver, as long as it makes money?
>>337691749
Really boring. Nearly every mission and side mission played out in exactly the same way, and the same kit of gear could handle nearly all the content.
>>337706640
Doesn't explain why MGS2 was such a piece of pretentious shit though.
>>337693215
Wow! She has the shape of a prepubescent child who survived SIDS. No wonder you all like her.
>>337706750
It also doesn't explain why 3 was such a lackluster but hey, opinions.
>>337691749
It's not as linear and story rich as mgs3 was, but honestly it's a good game on it's own. Especially with konami adding so much more content after release and grade 9-12 weapons still comming out. I honestly wouldn't mind if they made more DLC for it.
It was a bad MGS, but it's a 11/10 godtier Mercenaries 3.
Not what I expected, but still really fun on it's own.
>>337691749
it still hurts
i am a huge metalgearfag. i riked it a lot, but the unfinished feeling will never leave me. maybe this was kojimas intent all along? he definitely created phantom pain in a lot of players
>>337706572
They touted this harder than anything? How did you miss it?
THE FINAL CHAPTER TO THE METAL GEAR SAGA
25 YEARS IN THE MAKING
THE ULTIMATE THRILL
THE ULTIMATE METAL GEAR
and also the quiets theme trailer with the actual recap of the series. We're you not here for the hype?
>>337697736
I think it would've been best if we still had the afghanistan hub-world but instead of angola we had more self-contained levels.
>>337692593
personally i will consider it trash for the rest of my days
>>337706317
I don't even mind that. Yeah the story was stupid but who cares? The gameplay is nowhere near 10/10 status though because of all the stuff people have said.
The levels are too simple and the AI isn't all that great. Bosses are pretty poor from a general standpoint not just an MGS one. And stealth doesn't feel as in-depth as it should be in an open world. Vehicles also feel pretty useless.
>>337706621
>>337706642
They started the shutdown long before the game even hit the market. They couldn't have known it would sell this well when they fired Kojima.
>>337706572
Pretty fucking sure they made MGS5 out to be THE MGS of all MGS games.
Turns out it was even worse than Ar Tonelico 3
I completely loved it.
It's not my favorite game in the MGS series, but I still very much enjoyed it.
I got the collectors edition since it really is the final send off metal gear from kojima.I could hardly believe that it was true when he said it was his last metal gear ;_;
>>337707217
They didn't know how well it would sell a main entry of a 27 year old franchise, that managed to sell 6 million copies exclusively on the PS3?
>>337705937
I put like 150 hours into the game, got the platinum and all of that and definitely got my money out of it by now but I haven't boot up the game in months which is certanly weird for me since I play the other MGS games that offer less replayability every once in a while and make a new run on them and finish them and then come back again a few months later.
At this point I certain that I don't see myself returning to MGSV at all not even years down the line.
>>337707329
Are you fucking joking? It was Kojima who ripped the game apart on his boss's orders. He could have ripped out the dumb animal shit or the sidequests but nah he ripped an entire chapter of the game
>>337692593
The world is totally barren and you infiltrate the same bases with the same movement patterns over and over and over again. Once I got to Africa and realized it was the same deal as Afghanistan I had to throw in the towel. That's not even mentioning the story which was horrific and borderline nonsensical.
>>337704463
>As for the ending, I just checked again on youtube they don't switch out the DD logo at all.
Okay buddy whatever you say.
I beat it in a week. Played mgo for a week, never touched it again. 7 years of hype.
Sad.
>>337707370
Of course not, they can't see the future.
>It managed to sell-
After. it. came. out.
Konami doesn't have a time machine. You're a manager that doesn't know anything about MGS other than it's a product you sell, you see MGSV, get to play it, realize it's a lame Far Cry with flashy effects. What do you think? Do you think it was worth the millions to make?
>>337706750
2deep4u indeed.
>>337707491
>>337707620
>Of course not, they can't see the future.
And you tell me these people don't have predictions and do market research?
>>337691749
Feels like a missing arm
>>337707598
Hmm my bad missed that. My other point still stands though. In fact I don't even know why he has that shrapnel in his head since it did little to impact gameplay or the plot
>>337707686
The proof of the cut chapter is right there in the Collector's Edition you said you purchased.
Or did they scrap that shit from the CE too? LOL
>>337707620
Past games have sold millions of copies. Why would another sequel that's hyped at every trade show not do the same?
>>337707689
>And you tell me these people don't have predictions and do market research?
Predictions and market research can't tell the future, either. It's not magic, and it hinges entirely on what audience they scoped in the first place.
MGS sells terribly in Japan, always has. If their only care is what happens inside of Japan, then it would be a disaster waiting to happen.
Konami has made it clear that they really only care about their Japanese franchises with gambling machines that they can't export and health spas which exist as physical locations in this one tiny place.
>>337707815
you mean the one missing mission?
yeah i was dissapointed with that, but where is the proof that it was kojima who decided to scrap it?
>>337707943
They can, kind of.
All these big companies make their choices base on what people want.
>>337691749
I think it's a fantastic game. I can boot it up and still have fun with it anytime. My biggest complaint is there is no NG+ option holy fuck it needs it so bad.
I don't think it is a bad Metal Gear though, it offers something completely different than past entries which I like. I still go back and play 1-3 pretty much yearly and nothing will top 2 or 3, it's the pinnacle of the series. But V is still a great game with amazing gameplay, graphics, and content. And nothing is better than listening to 80's tunes while doing your shit. I just wish konami didn't fuck kojima over, we could have been seeing DLC story add ons and shit. Then the episodic shit would make sense, ya know. He could have kept working on metal gear for as long as he wanted spaced out contained in one project while doing other things, fuck this gay earth.
>>337707937
Past games also had way less content cut.
>Sir we can only ship this game with 2/3rds of the story complete
Would get anyone fired.
>>337707793
The shrapnel never changes. It's always the short little stub. The horn growing and being covered in blood even after taking a shower, is all in his head. It's his inner demons altering his perception of himself when he does evil things.
Why is the shrapnel actually there in reality though? Because he took it to the face when he jumped in front of Big Boss to save him and they couldn't get it out of him. It works as a great visible tool to show how he's become a demon, that's it.
>>337707943
What does this have to do with a Triple A company seriously giving a single fuck about the quality of their games?
>>337708089
No Triple A company gives even the tiniest of fucks about the quality of the games they deliver.
>>337707972
Because that's what directors do.
Also you forget to read the part where I said 'on his boss's orders' because its convenient for you? or did you actually miss that part in my tiny post?
>>337708025
*On what the people who they view as their market want.
Konami doesn't view westerners as their market. They wouldn't have made half the decisions they've committed to if this was the case.
>/v/ cries through hell and highwater that the game is irredeemable trash
>It still ended up being a strong contender for game of the year.
/v/'s opinions mean absolutely nothing. I've put hour into the game and very much enjoy it. Still play it occasionally.
>>337708196
>They don't care about quality
They care about work delivered. Game ships, it's only 2/3rds done. That means your development team sucked millions of dollars out of your budget and only did 2/3rds of their job.
>>337708308
No they don't.
They care about the money they get in return, nothing more.
>>337708137
I don't know anon. Seems superfluous to me especially considering the character's primary goal is to be a body double for a world famous figure by the time MG1 rolls around.
>>337708280
Yeah you know what also got goty awards? Undertale.
Who takes that shit serious anyway?
>>337708308
Yeah, and they are moving to mobile videogames because they care about the quality of what they deliver.
My fucking sides.
>>337708473
Undertale won 0 awards in 2015. If I remember correctl, it wasn't even on most ballots.
>>337708484
Mobile games are easy to deliver, don't suck millions of dollars, and the development team will at least get them done on time.
>>337691749
Why are we still here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xc0EzLc7NZg
>>337708473
>Undertale got GOTY awards
From irrelevant websites.
It didn't win a single thing at the VGAs.
Praying to kek for a Phantoms of the First Pain Year One edition with altered gameplay, improved menus and next gen only. please kek
>>337708587
>and the development team will at least get them done on time.
That didn't stop Assassins Creed Unity from coming out completely unfinished and broken.
You know what made Ubisoft stop pumping out AC's?
Syndicate's drop in sales.
You have to be the most innocent and gullible kid to think a single one of these companies care at all about the quality of the garbage games they deliver.
None of them do, they want money in return, the budget is an investment, nothing more.
>>337708605
Is there a "relevant" one then?
>inb4 IGN
>>>/reddit/
>inb4 Gayspot
>>>/reddit/
>inb4 any mainstream media site
>>>/reddit/
>>337708689
>Praying to kek
>please kek
Stop trying so hard to fit in, obnoxious Redditor.
>>337708473
I also enjoyed undertale.
Though you're correct in stating that vgas don't really matter. they're about as valuable as /v/'s opinions,the only difference being vgas having a better representation of the general public.
The point is to play games you want to play, then form your own opinions.
>>337708810
VGAs.
>>337708810
Dorito pope awards.
>>337708587
>someone out there still thinks anyone cares about the quality of videogames
You are so cute.
>>337709079
He doesn't even play videogames so how is he relevant?
>>337708765
>You have to be the most innocent and gullible kid to think a single one of these companies care at all about the quality of the garbage games they deliver.
They do, and you're oversimplifying one of the most complex entertainment industries on Earth if you seriously think that the quality of their games doesn't contribute to the sales.
Please, take ten minutes to think about how stupid that sounds.
>>337708414
What don't you know? I don't get where you're being hung up. If you're complaining that he has a horn and robotic arm and this alone would make everyone instantly question his authenticity in MG1, well, welcome to retconning. This series is exactly as old as I am. Any piece of fiction is open to flaws, because it's fiction. And as you pile on more and more concepts, things start to overlap and cause friction. If the worst that comes of this resolution 28 years in the making, is that the body double has identifying flaws, oh well. It still connects and works just fine if you let it.
Remember when konami threatened kojima with a lawsuit if he accepted any awards for mgsv? So ronery.
>>337709079
>>337709129
Dorito pope is video games. He is your ally, friend.
>>337709158
No, they don't.
If they did, why did they let Kojima deliver the game in that state?
Why did EA allow Battlefield 4 to come out like that?
Why did Ubisoft allow Watch Dogs and AC Unity to come out like that?
Nobody gives even a single fuck about quality.
They want money. Period.
>the quality of their games doesn't contribute to the sales.
Yeah, because we all know that Call of Duty, FIFA and GTA are some of the best videogames ever made.
>>337709090
Consumers do, so companies do as well.
Mobile games, for instance, are easy to make and quick to deliver with small budgets. So even if one or two are bad, they can put out a spectrum of them and at least know they have a few people buying.
>>337709418
No, consumers don't.
The masses are completely stupid and will fall for proper marketing campaigns.
Good marketing = high sales.
Nothing more.
>>337709361
>If they did, why did they let Kojima deliver the game in that state?
They didn't, they fucking fired him you tool. They released what they had because the budget of the game had already run out by that point.
Holy fuck, that is what we're talking about in the first place: It's no wonder Konami pulled out of their AAA markets when MGSV was delivered in the state it was in.
Fuck.
>>337709521
>Everyone is stupid but me. The lameo 'masses' of sheeple are all just retards that can't tell what they like anyway.
Don't you have a hot topic to be hanging around in front of?
>>337691749
I try to forget
>>337709654
Oh yeah, the masses care obviously about quality.
I mean, the best videogames have always been masterpieces like Destiny, FIFA 20XX, the latest Cowadooty, Battlefield...
The best of the best.
>everyone's acts like MGSV is unfinished and that's a fact
>still manage to get more hours out of it than most other games I play
Doesn't seem unfinished to me.
>>337709840
>It's ok for me haha I like to eat shit
OH NO
>>337709763
-Or maybe those are the only types of games they like, and those games release the most often with the most consistent quality.
If you like football, FIFA, for instance, is your only choice because it's the only game which you can simulate the actual roster of FIFA and play games with it.
Again, you're simplifying a very complex issue based on "Everyone is an idiot but me."
![MGSP2_Screenshot_11[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/JYhoFXW.jpg "MGSP2_Screenshot_11[1].jpg")
>>337706572
See: >>337706973
Nearly every trailer (mainly the last few before release) featured captioned titles in large font just as anon described, even saying that MGSv was "THE MISSING LINK IN THE MGS SAGA"
Granted, they also used the same exact terminology in trailers before (I believe touting PW and MGS4 as the "final link" "missing link" etc in their trailers). If anyone has that image, please post, its hilarious
>>337691749
Gave it to a friend of mine in a different state, I want it back but when I gave it to him I said he could keep it forever because I'd already beat the game and online was boring
The music was great
>>337709242
I don't know if it's necessary. I'm aware of what retconning is but this could've easily been avoided if he didn't shove that shrapnel in there. Remove it and the story and gameplay still work fine.
Having him keep his arm might change things a bit since the bionic arm offered a bunch of gameplay stuff. But one can easily hide that fact with a more realistic looking prosthetic or even clothing.
There are plenty of other oversights and inconsistencies and retcons that pretty much punch gaping holes through the story, I just felt like that little twist reveal didn't get as much effort put into it as it deserved considering it's the major connection to the old games.
>>337709552
No, they fired him because it took too long and they want to milk the franchise as hard as they can.
If they cared about quality, they wouldn't have pushed for the Motherbase Coin scam.
And no, Kojima wasn't fired, you CAN'T fire people in Japan, look it up, that's a fact.
What these companies do is force people into resigning by abusing them, by forcing them to work more hours than they should and such.
Not a single Triple A company right now gives a single fuck about quality.
They want the most profitable videogames, and you don't do that with quality, you do it by playing it safe and copying popular games, and that's what Konami is going to do with that new Metal Gear they'll develop.
>>337710003
>a very complex issue
There's no complexity to this at all.
Good and big marketing = good and big sales.
>>337691749
Shit tier stealth in a shit tier world.
You have to use like no gear to make it interesting and focus on the levels that have some actual thought put into them to have fun.
>>337710212
Rockstar isn't Triple A is it? Because they honestly put out great games every time.
>>337710398
>Red DEad Redemption
>Great
>Bully
>Great
>GTA4
>Great
>>337710398
GTA V was the most shallow 3D GTA and GTA Online was unplayable until almost a year worth of patches.
>>337691749
I'm very mixed on it. I love Metal Gear.
I really think if it was finished I'd love it, even with the twist. If there was a chapter 3 with Venom finding out he's not Big Boss and having a breakdown, it'd be good. I would have also preferred if it was just Big Boss becoming evil like the trailer implied. I love the gameplay and I didn't mind the grinding because I liked Peace Walker's gameplay. Building Mother Base was fun but I wish there was more to it. The game has it's moments, but to much is cut and it really doesn't feel like a full package after Chapter 1.
>>337710212
>No, they fired him because it took too long and they want to milk the franchise as hard as they can.
They fired him because he gave them 2/3rds of the product delivered, over-time, over-budget, and he wanted more.
Do you seriously think AAA companies don't do investment analysis on the games they produce? They knew how much time and money a game of similar size would cost to make and the time-frame they would expect it at.
>And no, Kojima wasn't fired, you CAN'T fire people in Japan, look it up, that's a fact.
But you CAN transfer people to positions that are literal hell to the point that they leave.
Basically the same thing.
>>337706765
I am incredibly surprised that someone on /v/ even knows what SIDS is
>>337700934
Was thinking of doing a second playthrough of the game after getting all the achievements.
Would you recommend it for the entirety of the game?
>>337710519
Ok fine but you really don't think RDR is great?
>>337710605
No, he wasn't.
Triple A companies don't care about the quality of their own games.
If they did, how come Ubisoft Montreal or DICE are still a thing?
>>337710212
>You can't fire people in Japan
Holy fuck you're retarded.
https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-companies-in-Japan-cant-fire-people
It's not 'impossible', tool. It's just very hard.
>>337710810
>Triple A companies don't care about the quality of their own games.
Gonna keep repeating it over and over again in hopes that someday someone believes it's true besides you?
Triple-A companies care about the quality of their games as to the point that they sell.
Point: Daikatana.
>>337710605
They fired him because it took him 6 years to deliver the game.
It made money, that's why they are making a new MGS.
Not a single one of the guys in the suits that compromise Konami care about the quality of their games, and those old fucks wouldn't even know the game is unfinished even if they pointed at it because they barely know how videogames are.
They are guys in suits who want money, specially Konami.
>>337704108
>MGS4 combined the aloof nature of the first 3 games with a clean resolution without compromising the anti-war themes. "Story ruined" . kek.
>There are people on /v/ that unironically defend 4's horrible plot that ruins tons of characterizations and moments from the series
Hold me, familia, I can't handle these faggots anymore.
>>337692887
Kojima didn't even write the original stories, some other bloke did this and he never got the praise for it. It all went to Kojima.
Even most of the gimmicky ideas in MGS never came from Kojima but from co-workers or interns writing up funny ideas in a book, Kojima just picked the most funny gimmick and worked it into his games.
Literally a hack.
>>337710943
This is true.
>>337710605
Kojima went over time and over budget for every single MGS, what made V different?
>>337710943
They don't.
Point: Battlefield 4, AC Unity, GTA Online, Fallout 3, New Vegas.
No one was fired over these five of many disasters that came out completely broken.
I had fun. The story is not what I've come to expect from an MGS game. It felt like a spin-off. I felt more engaged in MGR's plot at the end of it.
>>337711053
>Kojima went over time and over budget for every single MGS, what made V different?
Those games actually finished.
>>337711134
But why would they care about anything but it's sales?
>>337711134
So why is Kojima the first person fired over delivering an unfinished videogame?
There's even bigger hacks like Todd Howard working after pieces of shit like Fallout 3 and Skyrim that were unfinished.
>>337711087
Those games finished, met their design docket, and delivered the product that they promised. Are you high?
>I think these games suck so AAA games must not care about quality
Holy fuck.
What a hot batch of opinions you have there. "I think game is bad!" isn't the same as "This game was unfinished and over-budget".
>>337710981
Tomo Fukushima is the guy you're talking about
Responsible for writing
Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence (2005) — Writer, Scripter, Scripter (Radio)
Metal Gear Acid (2004) — Scenario writer
Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater (2004) — Writer, Scripter, Scripter (Radio), Setting Research/Justification
Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes (2004) — Writer, Scripter (Mission Log), Setting Research/Justification,
Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance (2002) — Writer, Writer (Snake Tales), Director (Snake Tales), Scripter (Codec), Scripter (VR & Alternative Unit), Setting Research/Justification
Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty (2001) — Writer, Writer ('The New York Mirror', 'In The Darkness of Shadow Moses'), Scripter (Codec), Setting Research/Justification
Metal Gear: Ghost Babel (2000) — Writer
Metal Gear Solid: Integral (1999) — Writer
Metal Gear Solid (1998) — Writer, Scripter (Scenario Demo), Setting Design Assistant, Camera Setting
>>337699152
>4 is much less at fault than V, when we put this all together.
You're fucking retarded.
Good parts of 4:
-The first act
-The first half of the second act
-The boss fights
Total amount of good content: 4 hours at best
Good parts of V:
-The intro
-The first mission in Afghanistan where you save Kaz
-Some of the missions in Afghanistan like the one where you go after Huey to save him
-Let's not pretend some of the side-missions aren't fun and very playable
-First mission in Africa
-Some of the extreme missions made for a great challenge
20 hours of gameplay worth a shit at the very least.
Now, let's add in the fact that MGS 4 has a story that completely fucking raped the series to death and MGS V merely raped what was already a corpse. Let's also add the fact that MGS V doesn't have any fucking shit equivalent to the annoying turret section or the fucking whistling following.
MGS V has actual depth, MGS 4 was all pandering and no substance, their work went all into the first chapter and the boss fights.
The only thing MGS 4 surpasses MGS V on is on the quality of the boss fights. Aside from that, it's a trash "game".
>>337691749
The funny thing about the body double thing is that it's been done in the series before.
>>337711053
Konami got tired of having their resources cucked by Kojima more and more on every title
>>337711310
Japan don't fuck around
>>337711338
No, they were not.
Skyrim, Fallout 3 and New Vegas were completely broken and unplayable.
They were unfinished.
Are you telling me companies care more about having one mission and one companion missing from the game rather than about the game being completely broken, to the point where it's hard to play it?
>>337711310
>So why is Kojima the first person fired over delivering an unfinished videogame?
He isn't.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_Storm
https://3drealms.com/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eutechnyx
Not even in the top 100.
>>337711508
They should have.
I wanted to see Konami ruined and burn in flames.
Shame MGSV was a success.
Hope those fucks fuck off to videogame movies and Pachinko, although that market is crashing.
>>337711520
>Skyrim, Fallout 3 and New Vegas were completely broken and unplayable.
>Bethesda
So standard operating procedure for Bethesda.
>>337711520
>Skyrim, Fallout 3 and New Vegas were completely broken and unplayable.
Only if you count QA bugs, the content of the game itself was finished.
It wasn't 2/3rd complete. It was complete and gold.
>>337711638
It is standard procedure.
Why?
Because those games sell.
That's what they all want.
That's what Konami wants.
Kojima was vice-president of Konami, while the rest of Konami wants to pump out a MGS every 2 years.
Kojima wouldn't have allowed that, he would have felt forced to make those games himself, and he would have took it upon himself to make those games.
That's all, Konami wants to milk it dry.
GIVE ME A HAND
GIVE ME A HAND
GIVE ME A HAND
>>337711441
>Good Parts of 4
>Purposely left out
>Shadow Moses
>Weapon selection and customization
>Rex and Ray boss fight
>Frog battles
>Better MGO
>The final show down between snake and liquid/ocelot
Fuck off. If you point out all the shit in MGSV and MGS4 you would have a land slide of reasons why MGSV is shit but no you always have to point out the shitty vague good parts of MGSV
>>337709840
I put over 100 hours into it, but there's no denying that it isn't finished. Ending literally the first mission again out of nowhere. No final boss, no closure.
>>337711763
So companies care more about 1 mission and 1 companion than about the game being playable?
That's what you are saying?
That they care more about something that people will only notice if they search it up on the internet, rather than about something that you are going to suffer from throughout the entire game?
Also, what is the 1/3rd that's missing?
The Battle Gear and Episode 51?
That's 1/3rd?
Besides, Chapter 2 only had like 9 new missions, what makes you think Chapter 3 would have been different?
Also, if Chapter 3 was cut, there would be traces of something, of ANYTHING, but all what we have is the title card.
Not a single mission level, file, script, line... Nothing.
>>337710519
>>Bully
>not the greatest game rockstar ever made
>>337712010
And then I see dumbasses like this and am reminded the average poster here doesn't know what they're talking about.
>>337711995
4 definitely had more interesting baddies to fight
>FROGS
>GEKKOS
>Those little faggot robots
>Different PMC dudes
>>337711356
Yeah that is the one, thanks anon.
He never got the praise he should have
>>337712271
Explain how I'm wrong.
>>337711995
>Shadow Moses
A fucking disgrace that was tarnished by putting Dwarf Geckos instead of guards.
Made the entire level annoying as fuck.
>Weapon selection and customization
What?
The weapons were irrelevant outside of bosses, and the customization was barebones shit like adding lights or sights.
>Frog battles
What's good about this?
>The final show down between snake and liquid/ocelot
Pure melodramatic garbage.
