So, is it better than TF2 or nah?
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So, is it better than TF2 or nah?
>>337674690
Post the animated version, you dumb nerd.
>>337674690
Better than what TF2 is now
There's also no spy equivalent or random crits so it might also be better than tf2 at launch
>>337674690
Pros
>no bronies
>no furries
>no autists
>no Hues
>no Russians
>Blizz has come out saying cheaters get perma banned on the first offense - no excuses
>easy to jump into
Cons
>Light on content on day 1 although they plan to add in more characters and maps
>No private servers
still don't understand why they compare these games, they're nothing alike.
Anyone have any Overwatch feet? Mostly D.Va please!!
>>337674690
mooom look! I posted the picture again!
fuck off
>>337674829
You say that but as a brony, furry autist, BRBR/Russo fag, I have to say you're wrong
>>337674690
I certainly have a lot more fun with it than i've had with TF2 for a loooooong time.
It's roughly the same game with a different paint of coat. Some things are improved and some are the opposite. Ultimates give it a MOBA feel but TF2 has a bit more depth. Artstyle is subjective.
I want Widowmaker to shit in my mouth
>no hats
>no bronies
it's already better
>>337674690
Why did you make yet one more thread when there are already about 3 or 4 up?
Dumb hehewaifu Blizzdrones.
>>337674924
>no hats
but it has tons of cosmetic items?
>>337674829
>light on content
>Overwatch has double the maps TF2 had at launch and over double the characters
>>337674957
>tons
compare it to tf2, plus they're full skins
>>337674924
>overwatch
>$60
>no private servers
>customization is shitty skins
>TF2
>free
>lodes of custom weapons, hats, and gear
I want Blizzdrones to leave
I would say nah just because of no community anything
This game needs custom maps, real fucking bad
>>337674905
Man that's such a weird angle. Not really flattering as well. How did she get the bear's number?
>>337675018
are you implying that being free is good
>>337675018
That picture only confirms the fact that ow is better at the skin part
It requires less aim and movements, but if you enjoy that then I guess you would like it. People who enjoy quake and tf2 won't have much fun in OW
>>337674997
so its specifically hats that are bad? not cosmetic items?
And of course it has less, its not even out. Blizzard will steadily release new ones though.
>>337674981
It's been so long I don't remember what maps/modes TF2 launched with. Still, TF2 had the ability to make maps and have private servers with new fan made maps on day 1.
I like Overwatch and pre-ordered it, but its longevity relies on Blizz adding content at a reasonable pace
>>337674690
awww dude look at that butt my boner is so hard right now!
i want to have sex with her doggystyle dude
>>337675095
tf2 updates now only consists of retarded hats that don't fit the artstyle
>>337675018
First off it's 40 bucks
Also are you seriously complaing that Overwatch doesnt let you put on a fedora with neon green flames hovering around it?
>>337675181
TF2 is almost 10 years old.
>>337675018
>thinks the game is 60$
>lists free as an advantage because he can't judge if a game is worth anything
>argues with cosmetic content
>probably thinks bastion is op
I want poorfags to leave.
>>337675256
What stops them from making another tf, then ? Instead of releasing hats after hatsvalve
>>337674690
It's easier and has a lower skill ceiling than TF2.
Somehow it out-casuals TF2.
>>337675345
>Valve can make guaranteed money by releasing a sequel any of their fucking games
>instead spend time and money on failed hardware endeavor after failed hardware endeavor
Fucking sell your IP's at least if you never plan to make a game again.
>>337675102
Of the few maps at launch were 2fort and dustbowl, hands down the worst maps in the game
Also custom maps is nice but its nearly impossible to find a server actually running any that arent trade minecraft/brony ERP whatever
>>337675465
mei player detected
>>337675095
hats aren't really the main problem.
the problem was that the playerbase shifted, and became more about idling items, trading hats and WEAPONS and about making money.
it wasn't about playing TF2 anymore.
Overwatch has no trading and skins can be obtained by just playing the game, it's perfect that way.
>>337674690
it's different.
but yes it's a more fun game than TF2 is right now, with a much brighter future.
>>337674829
>>no bronies
>>no furries
>>no autists
People can't be this delisional.
>>337674690
Keep it in one thread you fucking underaged summerfag.
Why is this still happening?
It's different game. Only genre is similar and it's where similarity ends.
>>337675610
While they might be there in Overwatch, they can't spam their Rainbow Dash sprays all over the server or have a server where everyone uses pony skins
>>337675610
what the fuck is delisional
and no, Haven't seen any autist during the beta btw, maybe it will change but there's no sprays so rejoice
>>337675494
blizz shill detected
enjoy your press Q to win and press shift to rocket jump gameplay
>>337675627
it's the shills, anon
>>337675684
oh yeah, and the classes are not direct cut and pastes from tf2 at all
>>337675778
I will
>>337675627
>people want to talk about a popular, current game
I know it's disgusting right? What we need are more e-celeb and LOL threads, maybe a political drama thread or two for good measure
>>337675684
>cartooney art style
>both healing classes using a healing beam gun pretty much working the same.
>demoman also has equivalent
and the world is just sad to see what TF2 has become, and now we get a spiritual successor.
it's like systemshock 2 to Bioshock.
different in name, slightly different, still a pretty good non-sequel sequel.
>>337675814
I must have missed the update where they gave the demo a beartrap
>>337675814
I forgot that the demoman could lay bear traps and explosive wheels
>tf2 invented explosion classes
>>337675814
Have you ever once played TF2? The physics between both games is night and day.
>>337675835
Nice strawman. Purge the e-celebs along with every Overwatch thread over 1.
You are bumping vidya off page 10 with your shitposting just as much e-celeb cancer does. Or better yet, go walk a Trail of Tears to /vg/ and stay there.
>hate match making
>try OW beta
>set region to North America
>everyone speaks/types in English
>when I was level 1-9 all my teammates and opponents were levels 1-20
>get up to level 10 and teammates and opponents are level 1-30 generally with a fair mix
I hope that keeps up when the game releases. I've played games with matchmaking tossing in people from halfway around the world and way too high or low a level
>>337675814
Well, blizcock obviously copied like they always do. I'm not even surprised. What I'm saying is comparing OW with TF2 is very stupid. One is hyper-fps while other one is casul one.
>>337675814
Junkrat, Tobjorn, Mercy, and Pharah are the only ones that are cut from TF2.
Everything else is only vaguely similar or completely different. Mei is only like the Pyro in that she has a M1 beam weapon. Zarya is the furthest thing from the Heavy, Bastion's turret form is more like the Heavy. Tracer is only similar to Scout in playstyle. There's no Spy equivalent, either.
But even then, Overwatch is more like a first person MOBA than a straight TF2 clone.
>>337675475
Are you stupid?
There's almost no reason to release sequels for games of Valve's current business model.
They are either free to play or have a low cost, and provide them more income through microtransactions than they could ever hope to make through simply selling copies of a sequel.
They're already making guaranteed money while spending nearly nothing and taking no risks.
>>337675992
well the level in overwatch only represents experience and play time, not actual level of skill.
i hope they have some background number determined by player performance.
>>337676059
>hyper-fps
what the fuck am i reading?
>>337676059
I hope for my sanity that tf2 isn't the casual fps one in your mind.
>>337675018
>overwatch
>$40
>cheat-controlled servers
>customisation has just begun and already skins look pretty good
>tf2
>burnt out and dead
>f2p so hackers/cheaters just need a new account to continue hacking
>BRs, Ruskis, general 3rd worlders everywhere
>shitty looking hats with HURR LOOK IT SPARKLES effects slapped on to make them "rare"
sounds great.
>>337676112
Okay maybe saying TF2 is hyper-fps is very wrong.
I just hope that OW never goes F2P.
That was the beginning of the end of TF2.
>>337676097
>Overwatch is more like a first person MOBA than a straight TF2 clone
stop spouting bullshit
it has nothing in common with a moba except for Ultimates.
>no lanes
>no creeps
>no towers
>no shops
>no leveling
nothing like that.
while it has everything in common with TF2
>hurr durr TF2 doesn't have abilitys like overwatch.
and yet it does.
Jarate, Scouts baseball stun, pyro M2, Buff Banner all that shit is cooldown based. basically being a Ability in Overwatch.
I had a good time in the beta and it has some of my favourite character designs.
>>337676097
Hanzo: Huntsman sniper
WM:sniper
you forgot these cancer characters.
Overwatch is basically a casual tf2. They take any sort of advanced movement mechanics that tf2 has and then just bind it so shift or ctrl.
Bad movement with ultimates = casual game.
>>337676295
>Jarate, Scouts baseball stun, pyro M2, Buff Banner all that shit is cooldown based. basically being a Ability in Overwatch.
JUST
item=/= skills.
>>337676332
>play Zenyatta
>throw orb of discord at enemy tank
>teammates focus on everyone else but the tank
Maybe they need to make the orb a giant flashing neon sign instead
>>337674924
you do realize the bronies will swap over to Overwatch?
>>337676462
you might be actually retarded if you don't see the similarity.
>>337676295
You play heroes instead of classes.
You have hotkeys instead of items/weapons.
You have ultimates.
Saying "nothing in common" is blatantly false. I never said it WAS a MOBA, I said it was LIKE a MOBA. Some concepts are clearly inspired by it. It's not a straight TF2 clone, so calling it one is wrong.
>Jarate, Scouts baseball stun, pyro M2, Buff Banner all that shit is cooldown based. basically being a Ability in Overwatch.
Alternate weapons and items aren't abilities. Having a cooldown doesn't make them the same.
>>337676372
I didn't forget Widowmaker, since having a generic "Sniper" class isn't anything you can attribute to TF2. Even then, TF2 Sniper doesn't have a grappling hook, and has a shitty SMG instead of an assault rifle.
I did forget Hanzo.
>>337676498
That didn't particularly bother me because even Zen by himself destroys tanks at long range with a discord orb.
>>337676498
I played only attack or defense class. Is Zenyatta available?
>>337676501
>bronies having disposable income to buy OW after buying the latest Fluttershy plushie
lel
>>337675018
>$60
it's $40, $35 with g2a code
and how hypocritical of you to add a picture which was originally made to bash on tf2 for having meme skins
kek @ u
>Overwatch
- $40 bucks
- 12 maps
- Very few gameplay modes
- No modding
- No dedicated servers
- Mediocre visual design
- Levels design is pretty lackluster
- Gameplay is extremely dumbed down
+ No trading bullshit (yet)
+ More classes
+ Waifus
>Hat Fortress 2
+ Free
+ Hundreds of official and unofficial maps
+ Dozens of gameplay modes
+ Mods
+ Dedicated servers
+ Fantastic visual design
+ Excellent level design
- Gameplay is fairly simple and easy (not as much as Overwatch)
- Trading and hat bullshit
- Less classes
- No playable waifus
>>337676295
>while it has everything in common with TF2
Except TF2 has community-ran servers, a modding scene, a completely different physics engine, lacks a "press Q to murder everyone" button, etc. You will never see anything like custom maps, which now make up the bulk of the official maps in TF2 and are by far the best maps in the game. You also probably won't be seeing community-made game modes like Saxton Hale, Prop Hunt, SOAP DM, etc.
>>337676656
>press 2 and LMB instead of just E or LSHIFT
>WOW DUDE TOTALLY NOT THE SAME BRO
come the fuck on man.
heroes and classes is just different marketing, like using the term MOBA instead of Dota-like
ofcourse Overwatch was inspired by Mobas, however it turns out TF2 did all these things before MOBAs were big.
if i made a class based shooter in 2016 i would try to appeal to the Dota and League crowd as well.
>>337676501
let's hope bronies don't have the money for Overwatch, they also don't get to use custom sprays so they can't spread their religion.
>>337676872
>- No playable waifus
Mods fix that
>>337675684
>It's different game
It's literally a TF2 clone.
>>337674829
>no Russians
im sorry anon, im a russian and I've pre-ordered it
>>337676589
What similarity? Are you seriously thinking item is skill? is fucking HE grenade in CS GO is skill? IS that what you're saying?
Why are TF2fags so butthurt? Can't they just go play their game in peace, and stop crying?
>b-but muh game 'innovated' this style of play!
>>337676994
the grenades in CSGO aren't cooldown based.
if they were then yes i would consider that a skill.
>>337676984
Get out of my cs go
RRRREEEEEE
>>337676097
>Overwatch is more like a first person MOBA than a straight TF2 clone.
Blizzard made a huge miscalculation by releasing the game at the same time as Battleborn since that completely destroyed that line of defense.
Battleborn is not a good game by any measure but it's actually first person moba, unlike Overwatch which is just a glorified Team Fortress rip-off.
>>337676917
>heroes and classes is just different marketing, like using the term MOBA instead of Dota-like
Except when you have 21 fucking heroes with more heroes coming it's obvious it's a completely different design philosophy than classes.
If you designed a game with classes you would have only a few classes that each fulfill a unique role, overwatch has several overlapping characters all fulfilling the same roles.
>>337674829
>>no bronies
>>no furries
>>no autists
>>no Hues
>>no Russians
These are lies
>>Blizz has come out saying cheaters get perma banned on the first offense - no excuses
This is something you shouldn't believe
>>easy to jump into
This isn't something positive
>>337676872
>Overwatch
>no dedicated servers
How is this possible? Does one of the players host the game or something?
>>337676937
>No playable waifus
>Mods fix that
Forgot about that, Saxton Hale is literally the perfect husbando.
>>337677212
yea i host everything
>>337674957
but it doesn't have a retarded marketplace built around selling fake hats for real money and exploiting dumb kids
valve is literally evil
>>337677212
There is dedicated servers but they are fully run by Blizzard. What I meant is that there are no community-run dedicated servers.
>>337677212
I hosted like 650 servers the other day, it was very funNNNn!
>>337677212
no, all the severs are blizzard servers basically.
what the guy meant was that you can't rent/setup your own server, play 90s europop and run minecraft maps on it.
>>337677212
It's p2p and it's old as sin, I remember when people got buttblasted over MW being p2p.
>>337675018
>lodes
>>337677063
>why people compare this game with the game it's ripping off
Gee I wonder why. It's like if someone made a Call of Duty clone and then pretended it was a completely different type of game.
>>337677073
FUCK. Can't think about excuses. Maybe this time you fucking won.
>>337677308
Overwatch Skins will be purchasable.
>>337674690
Only similarity is both being asymmetric shooters with classes.
I like OW more because Valve is really shitty.
TF2
>free
>bugged as fuck
>full of shitty design decisions
>shitty hitboxes
>shitty animations
>ugly as fuck cosmetics
>children
OW
>shitty cosmetics (though fewer than in tf2)
>ults like high noon retains charge even if interrupted
TF2 is for gay homos who enjoy sausage fest characters
>>337677529
t. my booyhole
>>337677337
>run minecraft maps on it
/v/'s minecraft server for TF2 was pretty based.
>>337677212
You can host games, but you won't get experience progress or Hero play time for games played hosted on a non-Blizzard server, which is incredibly fucking dumb.
>>337677529
you can purchase lootboxes, no confirmation on buying skins directly.
also the trading between players was the problem, not the pay for cosmetics thing in general.
>>337677501
it's alright man, let's just enjoy videogames and forget about redundant discussions.
>>337677532
>children
Like OW is free with those fuckers.
>>337677532
>being this obvious
>>337677553
http://blizzardwatch.com/2016/02/09/overwatch-unveils-new-cosmetic-progression-skins/
>These skins are currently acquired from Loot Boxes, which can be both purchased for real money and gained as a reward for leveling up your account in the vein of Heroes of the Storm.
>>337677553
Can someone explain the t. to me?
I've seen it pop up for weeks now and I can't figure out what the fuck its supposed to mean.
>>337677751
>I've seen it pop up for weeks now and I can't figure out what the fuck its supposed to mean.
It's a /pol/ meem that has gone out of control.
>>337677693
Okay but no one at blizzard has said that. Some dude who wrote an article said that.
>>337677480
You didn't create the game, why act so butthurt on their behalf?
Besides, they should be flattered, since they're so innovative, they LITERALLY created all the elements that are "stolen"
I swear, TF2fags are worse than Soulsfags.
>>337675297
>thinks poorfags play TF2
>doesn't know that I have a strange professional killstreak golden frying
>>337677684
You're right dude shit.
You can only handle so much shit from a game.
Tell me why those reasons I don't like TF2 are wrong instead.
>>337677652
€40 will filter a lot of them out, I feel.
>>337677951
>Besides, they should be flattered
Wow, not even trying dude?
>>337677787
Yea I just googled it. I had no idea it was from that AoEII expansion shitpost.
>>337674690
No community content or support, so no.
>>337674690
When will people stop comparing this game and TF2?
Overwatch is more like MNC or any other ARTS than TF2
>>337677962
get out with that gold meme.
>>337677951
Valve is probably happy about others trying to copy TF2, although most developers fail at imitating some of the fundamental elements that make TF2 great.
But for a player is really obvious when something is just a half-assed copy of something else, it's not something that can be ignored. Overwatch has some neat ideas but the execution is pretty lacking, I would have preferred to see Titan rather than see the scraps.
>>337678035
what movie is that from
>>337677650
I try to imagine that each joystick also controls two robotic dildos that are built into her tight pantsu. That's why she is so unstoppable inside the mecha.
>>337675018
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9RjDRLBWio
>>337678035
Yes, they should be "flattered". Since TF2 literally created everything that's in Overwatch, not only that, but just about every other shooter apparently. TF2 was just one of those super innovative games that created everything, how can anyone else even compete?
>>337677962
>professional killstreak golden frying pan
How many thousands of dollars cost that?
>>337678150
Troy I think.
>>337677818
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-02-17-selling-loot-boxes-and-the-trouble-with-ranked-play-blizzard-on-overwatch
>Now as it stands, the loot packs are unlocked with each level. But, it does look like you're thinking about selling them as well, although I know that hasn't been confirmed. Are you going to, and how would it work?
>Jeff Kaplan: We were running the progression system internally for about two months before the beta came back and one of the things we saw a demand for was: "hey, this is really cool, but I'd also like to be able to buy these loot boxes". So that's something which we're very open to and it's very likely to be in the game in the future.
>>337678105
but MNC was TF2 with minions lanes and towers.
remove lanes and towers and you have TF2. wich is just like overwatch.
>>337678017
>only 600 hours
What a faggot. I bet you started playing a couple of years ago.
>>337678239
>blizcock is fucking ripping off TF2
>Valve should be flattered!
What are you, fucking gay?
>>337678105
>When will people stop comparing this game and TF2?
When Overwatch dies just like all TF2 clones before it.
>>337678310
>"You are able to buy loot boxes" is the same as "You cannot buy loot boxes"
>>337675018
>Muh hats
You are literally the cancer that killed tf2
>>337678424
Someone said no one at Blizzard said you could buy loot boxes, I'm showing someone from Blizzard saying you'll be able to buy loot boxes
>>337678017
It didn't filter you, so that's the main reason many ppl won't play it.
I haven't played Overwatch, is there something similar to rocket jumping in it? A friend of mine was complaining about it, but he is kinda bad at games.
>>337678365
Hey, ripping off TF2 is no big deal. It's like when you see characters wearing jeans in video games. They're all ripping off Levi Strauss.
At first there was nothing, no games ever existed before TF2...
Then everybody started ripping them off... so here we are today debating it.
>>337678105
Possibly never?
They are similar games
>>337678565
THis guy can place a mine and get a boost, and another character has a jetpack, one guy can climb walls. There might be more but im not sure.
>>337674690
>>337678281
this isn't in the actual game, is it?
>>337678565
Phara can shoot one of her skills in the floor in front of her and propel her up along with her regular escape boost.
Junkrat can throw a concussion bomb on the grind and propel himself up too. You can't spam that though.
>>337678565
No, closest thing is Pharah's shift which sends you straight up into the air
People have been trying to replicate it by using her concussive blast but it doesn't work nearly the same way
>>337678645
everyone on this board is a retard
>>337678639
Pretty sure both Genji and Hanno can wall climb
>>337678365
>>337678138
>>337678035
>>337677480
Gee, you lads aren't very bright, are you?
>>337678565
Theres an jump jet ability with a cooldown but its nowhere as useful as rocket jumping.
>>337678639
Hanzo can climb walls too and Lucio can scate along every wall in the game.
>>337678639
>>337678659
>>337678668
>>337678724
Okay, thank you, looks like my friend's complaints were valid.
>>337678565
Nope. There's 0 movement mechanics in OW. It's a console game after all.
>>337678565
>I haven't played Overwatch, is there something similar to rocket jumping in it?
There is a girl that's basically the Soldier, excepting that instead of rocket jumping she has a jetpack that rises her up in the air and can hover in the air for a fucking long time. It's basically the Soldier class made for babies.
>>337678565
despite what everyone has been saying, the rocketlauncher girl can do regular rocketjumping.
her SHIFT boost jetpack has a long cooldown, and doing a normal rocketjump costs 40 health out of 200 max health.
i feel like just because people aren't doing it yet doesn't mean it's not useful.
her rockets fly pretty slow, so sometimes getting less air by rocketjumping, meaning you're closer to the ground and do damage faster.
i found myself rocketjumping a few times during open beta, especially when going towards the objective, it seemed faster than just running.
>>337678934
She can also rocket jump the normal way.
And the Australian demoman can sticky jump with his mine.
>>337678934
I want Pharah to beat me up
>tfw I can't decide if Soldier 76, Pharah, Reinhardt, Mercy, Lucio, or Zenyatta is my favorite
i enjoyed the beta, but 40 euros is a bit steep for a multiplayer-only game presumably without any mod support what-so-ever and a server browser for custom content
>>337674690
TF2 died the moment it went F2P
It has made me miserable because it was one of my favourite games ever
>>337679035
>not just using E which does NO dmg and has a shorter CD than Lshift
bruh
>>337679117
I have the solution to your problem.
Roadhog.
>>337679035
>shift to rooftop
>spam rockets on payload from above
>build up ult
>wreck scrubs
ez-pz
>>337679129
Meh, it happened. You move on when game is done.
>>337679035
She can stand in the air for a long time just with the boost and there is a lot of high ground everywhere. And most people have no idea how to deal with her.
>>337679126
you will probably get more hours out of overwatch than any other game you buy
>>337679129
>TF2 died the moment it went F2P
The game was slowly declining in players when it went F2P. Going free made the game more popular than ever. It was necessary for the game to survive this long.
>>337679126
It really comes down to the fact that do you think the game is worth the price.
I got 20 hours out of the beta and that's worth more then the 90aud ill be paying going by an hourly rate,
>>337676872
> -$40
> +Free
>>337679182
E still has a cooldown, is sometimes unreliable and mid combat it sometimes has more useful applications
>>337679205
well yes, in that case you don't need to rocketjump, again i said it's sometimes useful and totally an option.
>>337679228
true
>>337679304
>giving the game a big playerbase
>at the cost of the enjoyment of those who bought it early on.
>>337679129
Why do you people who are not even playing the game keep spouting that "TF is dead"?
>ESEA, UGC, ETF2L, AsiaFortress and a handful of other leagues have been active for years and still are
>one of the most played games on Steam literally non-stop
Do you mash on quick play and then wonder why 12-year-olds act like 12-year-olds?
>>337679361
idk man i'm not 15 anymore, and i'm okay with paying $40 for something i enjoy. i haven't enjoyed tf2 in something like 7 years
>>337679129
>only play TF2 with friends on a handful of password protected servers
>never see the horrible community problems people always complain about
>>337679304
Sure it survived, but at what cost, anon? At what cost?
>>337679279
>you will probably get more hours out of overwatch than any other game you buy
Not really, after 10 hours of the beta I was already getting sick of it. Trying new classes added some more hours but there is not a lot to do with a game.
I think the game is worth 15 dollars at best.
>>337674905
Is she a fucking centaur ?
>>337679304
BRs, Russians, the purge of community servers, items which don't fit the artstyle and now paid weapon skins
I'll give them MvM, because that was awesome but the game is a husk of what it was
>>337679205
>Get sniped by fucking fag WM.
>Get sniped by fucking fag MC
>Get cooked by fucking Bastion
Not fucking ez
>>337679408
>>at the cost of the enjoyment of those who bought it early on.
I bought the game in 2009 and the F2P update didn't ruin the game. It actually was improved by having way more official servers, more mods and more pubstomping.
>>337674829
>>no bronies
>>no furries
>>no autists
>>no Hues
>>no Russians
This is just delusional
>>Blizz has come out saying cheaters get perma banned on the first offense - no excuses
It's like you've never played a Blizzard game before, they take literally forever to ban people because they do it in waves just like Valve does
>>easy to jump into
Sure but that's every Blizzard game
>>337679460
>At what cost?
Nothing, because it's free.
>>337679635
Creator. Now.
>>337679525
>BRs, Russians
You are thinking about dota.
TF2 died after trading was introduced, so yes.
Battleborn is better though. :^)
>>337677367
You mean MW2, which too be fair was fucking abysmal and a perfect example of why p2p is shit
>queue up with 3 friends
>puts us in 3 separate games
>is laggy as fuck half the time
>is never ever fixed
>VAC not even programmed to pick up hacks in MW2 despite it being the anti-cheat for the game so hackers were rife
>>337679525
I agree with you on the awful items and skins, but you can mod those out and they're necessary to earn Valve some easy dosh to keep the game alive.
Recently Valve took some steps to help community servers too, looks like they're going to allow server owners to enable the contract system on their server as long as it meets some as-of-yet unknown requirements. That and killing off LMAObox finally.
>>337679745
The creator has no name.
>>337679548
>thinks Rocket Girl gets countered by any of those
See pic.
>>337679831
I know it's about positioning and situation. but Rocket girl have fucking 200 health. MC and WM can 2 shot. 2 fucking shot her.
>>337679829
But is there a 55 in the creators life
>>337679816
Are you trying to imply that Valve is in any way lacking the money it costs to keep TF2 going?
>>337680002
Might be his age, has a good lulu set that I wish he'd go back and add sound to.
>>337679953
Widowmaker cannnot do jackshit if Pharah sees her first. And McCree is basically a non-threat unless you are stupid enough to not have the high ground at all times.
Bastion can be a threat but only because Bastion is nearly OP as fuck in certain areas. This will not change unless Blizzard introduces a proper spy class or guts him.
>>337680204
he just needs to grow up and make 30min vids
>>337679412
>>337679428
fucking this
also don't even think that Overwatch won't devolve into this either, and they don't have private servers so you won't be able to avoid it
>>337680283
Fuuuck, I don't think the net could handle it. I'd beat it raw if he compiled the honoka ones into a big video with minimal story
>>337680408
so it'll be an online game
wowzers
>>337680269
> McCree is basically a non-threat unless you are stupid enough to not have the high ground at all times
You mean 'you' can't shoot her. I drop her like abortion clinic all the time with McCree.
>>337680467
I never played McCree, I saw some good ones McCree players but they were non-existent when I was playing Pharah, because he is a non-entity when I was playing her.
>>337675992
If you're matched with people above your level it means you're better than average.
>>337680460
the first post in this thread is talking about how the game doesn't have bronies, furries, autists, etc
but it will, and unlike TF2 it doesn't have private servers so there will be no way to avoid them. it might be good now but Blizzard doesn't have the foresight to prevent it devolving into shit by having private servers.
>>337680026
Why would they keep it going if it didn't turn a sizable profit? It probably doesn't cost much to run the servers or pay the three interns that still work on the game, but Valve probably has particular goals the game needs to meet to stay alive. If stupid people want to waste money on ugly skins I won't ever see, let em.
>>337680573
Good to be you I guess?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDfPCxVMrY4
>>337674690
tf2 already surpassed overwatch
came back 8 years later and we will talk
>>337680618
>the first post in this thread is talking about how the game doesn't have bronies, furries, autists, etc
yeah, and that's retarded. every game will have those because it's an online game.
literally every game is that
>>337680726
I never encounter any of those in TF2 because I play in leagues and on private servers
>>337674690
no nigga, not even neo-TF2
>>337680627
I don't see why would anyone think that McCree counters Pharah, he has very short range in comparison and less mobility.
>>337680796
I didn't say you encountered that in TF2
I said literally every game ends up with the same idiots
>>337680876
The fact that he can get into a goddamn sniper fight with Widow and win.
>>337680876
>hitscan weapon best at medium range
>12 shots
>headshots do plenty damage
McCree counter pharah, but then again most hitscan weapons counter pharah.
Street pig is best guy
>>337680918
but I'm saying that TF2 is better than Overwatch in that regard because Overwatch literally doesn't have private servers or leagues so you quite literally have no way to avoid the autists and faggots
it is just going to be a shitty community and there will be no way to avoid it. Blizzard only cares about box sales and they will give no fucks whatsoever about maintaining a community, they pretty much never have in any game they've made. and a community is pretty fucking important to have in a game like TF2 or Overwatch or people have no reason to continue playing.
>>337680971
>The fact that he can get into a goddamn sniper fight with Widow and win.
Not against a non-shit Widowmaker. HIs pistols have plenty of damage falloff.
>>337680876
What do you mean short-range? Do MC have damage fallout? Cause I was having sniper duel with WM and I won. Mostly because WM suck ass but point still stand.
>>337681074
>Not CleanCat
>>337681074
thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiick
>>337678934
>Spend hours on rocketjumping maps perfecting the technique
>Or press E to fly
>>337681074
i agree
>>337680269
> Bastion is nearly OP as fuck in certain areas
Are you bad at video games or do you just play with retarded teammates?
>>337681004
>>337681176
McCree counters anything in a 1v1 close range situation.
Flashbang,fan,roll,fan.
Long range?
Not much you can do.
> private server tards
Why do these fags always shit up a Blizzard topic with this
>>337675018
>$60
$40 unless you're a peasant or want shit in Other blizz games.
>Customization is skins
I'd rather have the left be an on/off toggle than ever have to look at the right again.
>free
And the community died when that happened
>Lodes of custom weapons, hats and gears
Most of them useless, and a good chunk of the hats being meme hats that break the look of the game.
>>337681313
>Long range?
>Not much you can do.
>have you ever landed a headshot son?
>>337681282
>>337680623
They keep CS 1.6 and Source going.
>>337681394
how else do you plan to avoid autists in OW then? all Blizzard needs to do is just make private servers and the problem solves itself
>>337681435
$40 is overpriced aswell. Game is 20, 30 bucks maximum considering the content.
>>337681313
>Not much you can do.
I don't know? Maybe M1?
>>337675089
this
>>337681435
>custom weapons
>useless
boi
>>337681313
>Are you bad at video games or do you just play with retarded teammates?
In a few areas he is OP as fuck, I tried it myself, it's insanely unfair. They made a very mobile Wrangled sentry with very little damage falloff and self-repair.
And then decided it was balanced. They already nerfed him and he is still strong as fuck. In TF2 you would deal with that with a spy or an ubercharge, but that doesn't exist in Overwatch.
>>337681569
you pay for the future content upfront.
>>337678565
Two characters have a "Rocket jump"
Pharah has a jetpack ability, and a rocket with a knockback that also effects herself.
Junkrat can minejump.
>>337676656
>I didn't forget Widowmaker, since having a generic "Sniper" class isn't anything you can attribute to TF2.
Which game before Team Fortress had a sniper class? They even copied the zoom/charging mechanism and machine gun secondary.
>and has a shitty SMG instead of an assault rifle.
That's called 'good game design', by making the character who's lethal at long range weak at close range.
>>337681435
>And the community died when that happened
But that's wrong you fucking retard.
>>337681657
>you pay for the future content
>>337681674
>Which game before Team Fortress had a sniper class?
I think Quake Team Fortress mod was the first game to ever had a sniper class.
>>337681703
There was a distinct difference between TF2 before free to play and after.
>>337681657
>you pay for the future content
Blzzdrones everyone.
>tfw Tracer's sweaty butthole
http://imgur.com/a/98ipg
>>337681774
would you prefer a season pass for only 49.99USD?
>>337681570
>>337681503
His long range damage is 35. 70 if it's a head shot.
Do you really intend to snipe with that?Takes 3 shot to kill Zenyatta.
Heck, Zenyatta does more damage long range than you. 45 damage, 90 headshot. And I'm not even considering orb of discord.
I just don't even understand how Blizzard even plans to support esports in OW without private servers either
How will high ranked players meet up with each other to scrim teams and stuff? Or just practice with each other in general? If you can't make your own servers to have private matches how will you even practice?
I just don't even understand how this shit is going to work at all, do they just think esports communities happen by having ranked matchmaking and that's it?
>>337681839
>There was a distinct difference between TF2 before free to play and after.
Yeah, more people playing and more brony servers.
Which I think we are not entitled to complain since this brony faggotry started in 4chan.
>>337682019
Well yeah. It makes me build my Q like fucking volcano fast
>>337682019
>dying to pharah in long range
>ever
if she is so far away that you get the full damage drop off then you shouldn't get hit by her rockets either.
>>337682027
there is an option for private games.
you just don't get any Exp for those and have to invite every player by yourself.
>>337681901
kys my man
>>337682027
There is a private match option, you know. Even if you don't have your own server, you're still able to play in a private game that is invite only.
>>337682185
>>337682293
Yeah that sounds like shit though, how are you supposed to form an esports community if you have to invite every player yourself and also why even bother if you don't get experience? They basically want you to already know people before meeting them, I don't see their "esports community" lasting very long because of this
I feel like they haven't really thought this through
>>337682027
The only purpose of Overwatch is to make some quick buck from consolefags. Then later go F2P and make money out of cash cow whales.
When Titan was canceled Blizzard shifted focus on reviving WoW by shifting most employees there. The lack of content in WoW in the past 7 years is because they assumed Titan was going to be their next big game.
So the plan is to revive WoW, start a movie franchise with the Warcraft film, keep milking Hearthstone and start selling more merchandise. Their focus now is on Warcraft and Overwatch is just a way to compensate on all the shekels they wasted on Titan.
TF2 IS DEAD
RIP IN HELL HAT COLLECTING AUTISTS
>>337681603
Ok, so you are just bad at video games.
>>337682185
>if she is so far away that you get the full damage drop off then you shouldn't get hit by her rockets either.
Most people don't look up until it's too late. And her rockets don't have damage falloff since Blizzard is full of genius designers.
>>337682362
>create game
>invite your team
>invite enemy team leader
>he invites his team
also you don't get experience so you can't grind lootboxes that way.
if you want to play random people you just do matchmaking.
>ctrl+f
>webm
>only some mentally ill waifu fag
What is wrong with you marketers
Post fucking webms already
>>337682535
It's OW. what did you expect really?
>>337682362
>how are you supposed to form an esports community if you have to invite every player yourself
Other competitive games have been doing it for years. It's not this huge barrier to entry you think it is.
>and also why even bother if you don't get experience
Experience means nothing beyond crates, so it's not a huge loss. If you're doing it competitively, and getting paid, and skins/voice lines/poses mean that much to you, you can take some of your prize money and buy crates.
>They basically want you to already know people before meeting them
What? That's amazingly stupid. I'm having trouble understanding what you're getting at. Is the problem that you're expected to know your team, and the team you're scrimming with before the match? Because that's literally not a problem. Because otherwise, it's the same shit as the private servers. You needed to know who you were alerting/giving the PW to for said private servers.
>I don't see their "esports community" lasting very long because of this
Because of basically a series of non-issues?
>>337682504
Yeah but how the fuck am I going to meet high ranking people and play with them then? Even in ranked matchmaking I still won't do that
You have to meet people before you befriend them and invite them to play a private game. Even if the game starts out with teams already made, if people leave they are going to have a really hard time filling slots because their won't be private servers full of high ranked players like TF2
I just don't see how they plan to have an esports community in a game like this without private servers
>>337682701
see above
Do you play competitive TF2 at all? If so, you would know what I'm talking about
>>337682752
have you ever played in a clan?
you register on some website like ESL
you go for a tournament/ladder and see who you get to play against.
if you just want to train with your buddys then playing ranked matchmaking is probably a safe bet.
all the "matching up" usually happens outside the game with 3rd partys.
at least that's my experience doing competetive TF2 in 2008-2009.
>>337682975
Okay but get this anon, you're on a team and you have some people leave your team
How the fuck do you plan to find more people to fill your team?
>>337674829
Пpивeт, yёбa. Я yжe зaкaзaл.
![Instagram-Hahahahhaha-ratchetmemes-ratchet-memes-meme-funny-fc4ad0[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/pjmOztT.png "Instagram-Hahahahhaha-ratchetmemes-ratchet-memes-meme-funny-fc4ad0[1]")
>>337681901
Go away.
>>337683086
from my experience, people apply for clans, or they are friends of a clan member, or you see good people in matchmaking.
in regular matchmaking you often stay with the same group of players as long as they don't leave.
>>337683086
In competitive play you don't play with randoms anyway.
Why the fuck is everyoine saying Overwatch is 60$ ? It's fucking 39.99$ unless you want some bonus skins that are IMO not fucking worth it at all
>>337683258
Yeah but how do you meet other people that you can confirm are good to join your team if there are no private servers to meet them on?
>>337682610
OW is a great source of webms
There's even an entire gameplay element dedicated entirely to webm making, it's called play of the game
>>337682752
>Yeah but how the fuck am I going to meet high ranking people and play with them then?
There is going to be a ranked ladder mode in Overwatch at launch. If you're at a high rank, you're going to get matched into a lot of matches with other high level players.
>Even in ranked matchmaking I still won't do that
Yes you will.
>You have to meet people before you befriend them and invite them to play a private game.
Yes, this is correct.
> Even if the game starts out with teams already made, if people leave they are going to have a really hard time filling slots because their won't be private servers full of high ranked players like TF2
What do you mean by "if people leave?" If you mean mid-match, then you're missing a pretty fundamental thing. Overwatch, on a competitive level, will be a team sport. You'll be doing scrims AS A TEAM. If you randomly bail, you're going to have five other people giving you shit for being a bitch.
>I just don't see how they plan to have an esports community in a game like this without private servers
There are a bunch of successful esports without private servers.
>>337683086
Look at the high level match making. Look for people not on teams. Alternatively, look at other teams. See who you can make an offer to.
>>337683259
Blizzard jews default to the $60 edition when you try to buy it, so that's what everyone thinks it costs
I was talking to a friend on Skype, first thing he told me was "it was fun but it's a $30 or $40 game not a $60 one it's waytoo expensive fuck them" and I didn't tell him it's actually $40 because fuck Blizzard and their Jewish tricks.
>>337681912
Thanks god it died
>>337683321
You meet on forums, add each other, have tryouts.
>>337683349
>What do you mean by "if people leave?"
If they leave your team, how do you plan to find more people to fill slots in your team if there aren't private servers with high end players on them?
>>337683259
Different currencies/platforms/key sites maybe.
I mean i could get it for 64aud, 70aud or 90aud, it just depends on which version or where i get it from.
>>337683432
Yeah but that sounds awful, all of these issues could be solved if they just added private servers
>avoid autists
>grow esports community faster and better without the need for third party websites
I don't see how this shit is going to work at all
>dog = overwatch
>ice cubes = tf2friends switching over
>>337674902
Your not russian or br because you are speaking english
they don't.
>>337675089
That's not true. I'm a seasoned CPMA player, and using Junkrat and Pharah is fun when you have some quake experience. Pharah's rockets are great.
>>337683558
>not Pupsicle.webm
one job
>>337683652
I do, you piece of dirty pidor.
>>337676059
>hyper-fps
The fuck am I reading?
>>337683558
>you = faggot
does anyone have that DURR I CAN'T COUNTER BASTION image?
>>337683849
>a new hat has been deposited onto your steam account
TF2 will always be better because it has a higher skill ceiling
>>337683442
Check the ladder. See who is on the ladder who is not signed.
Or do what has been done with esports teams forever, and sports teams even longer. Look at who's unsatisfied with their current team and make them an offer.
>>337683513
i think you are overestimating the amount of pro players being discovered on pub servers.
i don't think that's how it works, usually, in any game.
the biggest esports games all don't have dedicated servers FYI
>>337674802
>There's also no spy equivalent
You say that like Spy isn't one of the most fun classes to play and one of the most unique playstyles in an FPS
>>337684798
It's annoying to play against them though.
>>337684632
does it really though?
>>337684798
yea spy was cool, wouldn't fit overwatch though.
>no guy with a flamethrower
the one stereotype i still want in overwatch, flamethrower guy.
and he should have a business suit and a gasmask or something. just no stereotypical pyromaniac.
>>337677751
terveisin
>>337683558
only people playing tf2 now are barneyfags and traders and they won't switch to game that they can't transfer their content in and without customizable servers
>>337684632
>higher skill ceiling
not really, you have what rocket jumping and thats it.
I'm probably gonna be one of those trashy people who try to git gud at Bastion even against people who can wreck him. I just like playing robot guys.
>>337685595
I wish Bastion wasn't so OP in pub games because he seems like he plays much closer to Heavy than anyone else and that was always my jam in TF2.
>>337683558
>X = A
>Y = B
>>337675089
I played comp hldm,tfc,tf2,vq3,cpm I still enjoy overwatch, but only as widow because its hilarious how broken she is if you have any ability to aim.
>>337685685
That's how I play him. Push and leap into sentry, dump some ammo, then get going again. Recently I've taken to using Solider for offense, though.
>>337685576
And airshots, and headshots and the whole Scout class.
Sniper
Scout
Soldier
Demoman
All have higher skill ceiling than anything on Overwatch.
>>337685893
well overwatch has headshots too, not sure what you mean with airshots.
and saying a class is better with no explanation doesn't really prove your point.
>>337685893
just FYI.
almost every weapon in overwatch can do headshots (except explosives and energy weapons)
TF2 sniper is pretty much Overwatch widowmaker with longer charges but no mines and no spidermanhook
demoman is pretty much the same as junkrat.
you have to shoot people mid air way more than in TF2 since many characters can go airborne
>>337686042
are you for real, is this the new age fps player?
>>337675102
2fort, dustbowl, granary, well, gravelpit and hydro I think
>>337686172
thanks for proving my point.
it's too bad it doesn't have plauer-run servers, but that's not blizzard's style.
I'm not like /v/ where I can autistically play the same game for 4000 hours. I got what I wanted out of TF2 after a month or so around when it came out, and again a little while later. So I don't see why it would matter if it's objectively better or not because I am never going back to TF2.
However one thing it beats TF2 in is attracting my wowfag friends. It's great finally getting them to play an FPS with me, even if they're turboshitters.
>>337674829
хyй cocи
>>337686042
If you don't know what you're talking about why even bother posting?
>>337686141
There's no juggling in Overwatch and those are much easier to do because everyone is so slow.
>>337675089
>less aim
but OW has average longer range than TF2 and has headshots
I mean compare shotguns, inaccurate pistols, the minigun and the SMG to shit like genjis throwing star, mccrees revolver, meis icicle gun, zenyattas orbs, the OW weapons actually work beyond mid-range
>>337686451
>There's no juggling in Overwatch and those are much easier to do because everyone is so slow.
but there is?
but junkrat and pharah both have skills dedicated to popping people up for air rockets.
pharah vs pharah mid air fight is fucking great and all about hitting air rockets predicting knockback and hitting the 2nd air rocket.
>everyone is so slow
but the game is faster than TF2?
>>337677751
it's finnish word "terveisin" which just means regards
>>337686758
Those aren't meant for juggling at all, they knockback enemies and there's barely anything the player can do to control the effect.
>but the game is faster than TF2?
Are you for real? Just stop playing.
>when you realize this game turned a whole generation of normies and would be normies into waifushitters
Blizzard doing the lord's work.
>>337674981
>over double the characters
We talking about at launch or the current loadouts?
>>337687345
Posting*
>>337678645
The asses? yes
>>337686451
>There's no juggling in Overwatch and those are much easier to do because everyone is so slow.
Ive seen some of the top players in the extended closed beta juggle a lucio who was trying to ult in the air for quite a while. It takes multiple people all adding abilities rather than something that any soldier can do solo, but its still doable.
(for context lucio's ult shield doesnt actually go off until he hits the ground even if hes done his callout)
>>337687345
>lucio speed buffin'
>tracer zippin around
>genji being the dashing ninja he is with wallclimbin and tripple jumps
>all other characters like winston, dva, junkrat, mercy, widomaker all have abilitys to move faster around the map
meanwhile in TF2
>scout has doublejump and higher movement speed
>soldier and demoman can rocket/stickyjump
>air strafing
i think they are at least on par when it comes to speed.
>>337681282
I mostly play tanks, indirect combat is boring, and I don't play genji and reaper because they're show off heroes that 14 year olds play to get PotG.
>>337684798
spy is fun and unique but he's a shit class thats more or less impossible to balance
>>337688078
OW is faster for 95% of the playerbase who havent mastered explosive jumping and all its intricacies, but rocket/sticky jumping is so absurdly brokenly powerful in TF2 that if you've completely mastered it the game entirely changes and becomes incredibly fast.
Honestly i can understand why the OW devs wanted to avoid explosive jumping in their game. It wildly overpowers both classes that can do it in TF2 and makes competitive balance an utter nightmare. Ill miss the speed as a player, but if i were one of the OW devs id make the same decision.
>>337686042
>well overwatch has headshots too
With twice the firing rate and three times the charge rate so it doesn't matter if you miss. And traps to protect your back so you don't need situational awareness. And a grappling hook so you don't need good positioning.
There's less speed and aerial play in Overwatch so less opportunity for skilled plays.
>>337686560
>but OW has average longer range than TF2
That makes aim easier because your target's side strafing moves less from your perspective. Most of OW's ranged weapons are repeating so you can spam them, you don't have to pick a shot.
>>337689140
>With twice the firing rate and three times the charge rate so it doesn't matter if you miss
you missed that anons point.
Almost every weapon, can do headshots.
nah
>>337689334
Headshots in TF2 are limited by firing rate. In CSGO, by recoil. OW has no recoil, fast firing rates, and infinite ammo. There's no skill in headshots when you can just spray and pray at chokes and get them by luck.
>>337689316
yeah but your targets are smaller as well, and many of the weapons are fast-moving projectiles so you have to lead
No foreigners INSTANTLY makes it better (you have to pay), so I'll be preordering this.
>>337689551
there is recoil in overwatch. especially characters like soldier 76, Mccree and tracer
and you have to reload most weapons thus having to make your shots count.
>>337689594
Fast moving projectiles against slow moving targets is pretty easy, especially as most of them don't have drop, and targets are funnelled through chokes.
Why are Brazilians so incredibly fucking obnoxious?
>>337689617
Well, there's foreigners but none of the shitty poor ones. Even if BRs and Russians can afford the game, I think they have their own servers.
>>337689730
The reloading is fast clip-loading and you have an infinite ammo pool. The longer range makes it easier to get away with reloading. If the soldier or scout gets caught reloading in his most effective range he's in trouble, OW heroes can spam from range and reload in safety.
>>337675610
Regardless of the amount of furries/autists that actually play OW, they never actually show it.
>>337689871
but the TF2 soldier can also spam from range and reload safely.
and the scout has a shotgun so ofcourse he has to go in, comparable to reaper or tracer with their shit ranges.
>>337689773
yeah but we're comparing it to TF2's shotguns here
and you really don't move that fast in TF2 unless you're scout
>>337674829
>no Hues
Isso é o que você pensa meu amigo
>>337674829
It literally has all of the things you said there was none of in the pros.
>>337690091
Erm no, the soldier's rockets have distance drop off, they only do anything at close range.
>and the scout has a shotgun so ofcourse he has to go in, comparable to reaper or tracer with their shit ranges
Yes, but two main differences: the scout does not have clip reloading, in the time tracer or reaper can fully reload, the scout can only reload one shell.
the scout also does not have any 'get out of jail free' abilities, if he's caught out he's dead.
>>337674829
>>no bronies
>>no furries
>>no autists
>>no Hues
>>no Russians
>he still believe the meme that third world fags don't buy videogames.
>>337674829
>no bronies
The image in the OP was made by a brony
>>337690280
the scout might take longer to reload, however he also has a pistol and a pretty effective melee weapon. also a double jump and higher movement speed than everyone else.
anyways i forgot how this argument even began so let's stop talking about it.both games are pretty casual and require similar skill levels tgo play
>>337690269
>The Justed One
>>337690324
Shut up, you third world cuck.
>>337685027
Mr. Foster is that you?
>>337675684
Just because two things are different doesn't mean you cant compare them.
>>337690240
fuck
>>337685027
>no guy with a flamethrower
Instead you have a girl with an ice-thrower.
>>337678565
All these casual fag responses. A true rocket jump exists in the game and is used in high level play all the time. When Bastion ults, he can rocket jump very well and use it to get to platforms and etc
itt people who have no idea how to play fps games type words.
>>337674690
Doesn't matter anon, TF2 died with conga so it's the only alternative
>>337681282
i played all of them except of zarya
liked roadhog, dva, pharah and mccree most
>>337674690
I've never had teammates taunting, doing the conga, trading, or changing cosmetics in the spawn room during a match in overwatch. So yeah, it's better
>>337674690
Considering TF2 still has a healthy player base after like, 10 years, nope
watch as overwatch gets killed by jew tactics and pay2win bullshit down the line
>>337674690
Game isn't even out.
>>337691974
>healthy player base
being alive is not the same as being healthy
see: cancer
>>337683558
>/v/ in charge of making analogies
>>337677182
>That isn't something positive
??????
>>337679648
>That's every blizzard game
???????????????????????????????????????????
>>337692095
If that's true, it would've died 5 years ago.
>4th most played game on steam as of today
>>337674690
Source?
>>337692440
yes, and TF2 is not healthy at all
>>337692440
It has players but most of them are either idling for hats, trading for hats, sitting in chatroom servers or are the typical third world children that typically inhabit free to play games.
TF2 is a bloated corpse at this point, competitive mode came out about 8 years too late, and every "update" Is pretty much just another model to push new cosmetic items on players.
>>337675814
You retards are bitching so much that the classes aren't.
>Waaah junk isn't as hgard as demo
Then when it fits you
>Waaaah they are too close
Kill yourself
i
l
l
y
o
u
r
s
e
l
f
>TF2 fags think their game was first to make classes which use projectile rockets and bombs
>"OW is copying TF2!"
No desire to play over watch, D.VA looks fun but then that just makes me want to wait for Titan Fall 2.
>>337674690
Still magnitudes more shallow than TF2, so nah.
>>337693219
You had no excuse not to even try the free beta, which was extended by a day before it ended. Even then there's likely to be a timed free demo like all Blizzard games have.
>>337681282
Symmetra needs to be useful at launch else I won't even bother. Hanzo and Widow don't appeal to me. Mei physically repulses me due to her terrible design and balance. Genji and Reaper are played by faggots.
>>337674829
>perma banned on the first offense
This isn't going to backfire or anything
>>337693892
just like vac?
>>337693892
>This isn't going to backfire or anything
Why? The majority of the playerbase that doesn't cheat will be unhappy to see cheaters get banned? 1st time ban is also a deterrent.
>>337681282
This game needs more Support heroes.
>love TF2 when it first came out
>community turned to shit when hats and marketplace came out
>played OW beta and loved it
>feels like old TF2 without the cancel and some QOL improvements Valve will never introduce
Not to mention having to buy the game will remove 90% of the shitty brazillians and russians from the game which will dramatically improve the game.
>>337676872
>+ Waifus
this is a plus? i fucking hate you waifu fags. this is the biggest con for me tbhfam
Genji is the most rewarding character to play. He requires the most skill to be effective and is very fun.
McCree is broken af.
>>337681282
i dont play dva or roadhog often, but i do every now and then. im not very good with genju but i like the playstyle and think he's a fun character.
top 3 lucio, reinhardt, winston
>>337694539
just wait until it goes down the same path as tf2
it is inevitable
>>337690091
>the scout has a shotgun so ofcourse he has to go in
The scout prefers to play from mid range unless an opponent is wounded. He's squishy.
>>337695224
Considering how 10 million people played the beta and I'm sure a good chunk will buy it. We won't ever see it go F2P unless population starts dropping and the game dies from Blizzard killing it with dumbshit updates.
In other words, I'll have some fun for years to come.
People are actually buying this Social Justice game?
>>337694714
Genji is overpowered as shit. Fuck you.
Overwatch deemphasizes the individual. In TF2 a truly good player can stomp pubs. In OW there are a lot more nearly insurmountable counters, or at the very least bullet sponges which really slow you down.
>>337674690
Its different from TF2, but I'd say it is and it isn't Its a much more casual in comparison, but there is also a lot more variety per hero with the various skills each has. All in all I'd recommend trying it if they do another free weekend or something. I wouldn't really play it to be competitive, but theres still a lot of fun to be had.
>>337695395
It depends more on how many players stay with the game, rather than how many just buy it. FPS games have a similar problem as MMOs do, in which a lot of players try out new games, but they tend to go back to old favorites after the allure of something new wears off.
>>337692043
Hyped to hell by Blizzard with a marketing budget bigger than some countries' GDPs, and barely any more viewers than some knackered old Valve game they don't even develop anymore.
>>337696051
the issue here is what FPS game is currently popular on PC right now?
CS GO?
TF2?
I really can't think of anything else, I think most likely is OW getting it's own niche and slowly becoming the go to FPS on PC for casual play.
>>337693212
>TF2 fags think their game was first to make classes which use projectile rockets and bombs
Which did?
Which characters do you guys think has the highest skill ceiling?
Widowmaker?
>>337674802
Ultimates are the OW equivalent of random crits.
>>337695885
Another free weekend would be suicide because the game becomes unbearably boring after 30 hours
Rate
>>337690485Really?Fuck I should have missed somewhere
>>337696582
Nice, Zarya and D.VA are two of my favourites.
Now learn Pharah, best girl.
TF2 is still a better package, it has years and years of content behind it and has lots of community support with dedicated servers and such
I enjoy Overwatch though and find it refreshing in the absence of a proper TF2 sequel
>>337695224
Blizzard games never have trading, you buy the hats from them and nowhere else, hence the cancerous trading community will never appear.
>>337696341
Quake is the most popular example that comes to mind. It just pisses me off that some TF2 obsessives think their game is gospel, and was the first to invent such things.
>>337696582
Good taste, anon. I didn't play the beta much as I joined in late, but I wanted to play Zarya more. Any tips?
>Is [unreleased game] better than [game released NINE years ago]?
You lot
>>337696996
Quake didn't have classes.
>>337696985
>cancerous trading community
While the past 2 years of steam games have been free for me thanks to steam trading, it negatively affects the game.
>>337674829
TF2 had 9 classes and 4 maps at launch.
Overwatch has 21 heroes and 12 maps at launch.
>>337697128
>Quake didn't have classes.
Completely irrelevant when we're talking weapons.
>>337674690
It is, not that its hard or prove its a good game...
>>337696582
>I can't aim
>>337697113
Some criticism is stable. Saying Overwatch doesn't have any maps will probably not be true in a year. Saying ultimates are dumb or that it emphasizes MOBA elements that minimize individual players is not wrong.
Why would you buy the game when all the porn is freely aviable on the internet?
>>337697073
get charge, fuck bitches.
>>337697272
Overwatch has had ten years to copy off TF2 so there's no excuse.
Also five maps.
>>337697338
>TF2 fags think their game was first to make classes which use projectile rockets and bombs
>classes
Scout - Tracer
Soldier - Pharah
Pyro - ?
Heavy - Zarya
Engineer - Torbjorn
Demoman - Junkrat
Sniper - Widowmaker
Medic - Mercy
Spy - ?
>>337696582
>zarya
disgusting
>>337674690
>LOL BUTTS XDD AND LESBOSSS xD
Shitty fapbait game
>>337674690
I find that the tight and balanced set of characters in tf2 is more compelling.
Also, it's got more maps, gamemodes etc. Playing the beta of Overwatch just reminded me of how much fun tf2 is.
>>337697606
mei is like pyro
>>337697272
TF2 also came with 2 other brand new games and 2 old ones for the same price.
>>337697612
>he spent 18 hours holding down LMB and jumping around
>>337697612
>18 hours holding down M1
What is wrong with you? Mercy is shit boring.
>>337697579
>moving the goalposts from weapons to classes
That's funny, the argument stemmed from OW allegedly copying TF2's Soldier and Demoman classes, because TF2 was apparently the first game to use projectile weapons like bomb and rocket launchers, if we look at the babyfur RP server shitters that post here trying to defend their game.
>>337697880
They have nothing in common besides an elemental theme and a weapon that sprays instead of shoots.
>>337697364
t. high noon
>>337697981
>>337697989
>damage boosting
>killing people with a 20 bullet headshot machine that reloads automatically
>not flying and being all over the place
it was pretty fun desu and i like winning
>>337697884
TF2 was 20 bucks. half the price half the content.
40 $ for overwatch doesn't seem that bad after all.
Despite being in the same genre, they are both to be llayed very differently
Imagine competitive 6s in TF2 but with more movement, ability, and class variety, plus lack of competitive feel
>>337697848
>I find that the tight and balanced set of characters in tf2 is more compelling.
Fucking lol, TF2's current "balance" is an unfixable mess
>Also, it's got more maps, gamemodes etc.
>Comparing a game that's had 9 years of updates to one that's not released yet
I wish the TF2 babbies would just play their irrelevant game instead of posting here.
>>337674690
had a bigger viral budget for sure
>>337698180
Her secondary attack is also identical to the Pyro Flare Gun.
>>337698076
>mentions classes
>then decides it's not about classes
>not moving the goalposts
TF was the first class based shooter, OW has ripped it off whether you Blizzdrones like it or not.
>>337697606
Zarya is russian and has a heavy weapon, but doesn't play well at all with healers because of her shields. At least not to the point of heavy+medic.
>>337697606
Heavy is bastion, Spy is reaper
>>337697981
>>337697989
>They don't know about the damage buff
>Or flying
>>337697884
TF2 =/= Orange Box
>>337698180
shes a mix of m=1 pyro and puff and sting, pyro is mainly used for controlling enemies, mei also does that and if they want kills they need to ambush
>>337698371
>TF was the first class based shooter, OW has ripped it off whether you Blizzdrones like it or not.
There's been almost a fucking decade of class-based shooters before TF2. If you honestly think that OW has copied TF2, it's obvious you didn't didn't play the beta to come to your own conclusions.
Also, I've never played another Blizzard game before.
>>337674981
It has double the characters because you have to play MOBA character switching grabass to get around hard counters that don't exist in TF2.
>>337674829
Literally all those boogeyman groups will be in the game day 1 of launch, so the only pro is that it's casual and cheaters get banned.
Great.
Nah, but it's totally worth the 40$ pricepoint and we can go back to tf2 when it dies in 4 months
>>337698339
Pyro Flare gun doesn't oneshot some characters if you headshot though.
Love popping Tracers with Mei.
>>337676872
>overwatch
>mediocre visual design
>tf2
>fantastic visual design
opinion disregarded
>>337698887
>There's been almost a fucking decade of class-based shooters before TF2.
You are aware that TF2 is the third game in its franchise?
All girls that I know who love Overwatch are lesbians or with a lesbian tendancy while fucking with men. So I guess that all girls who love Overwatch don't love this for the game but for the female characters.
>>337674924
>TF2 had an amazing artstyle and presentaton
>"HATS RUINED IT REEEEEEEE!"
>Overwatch has a dogshit artstyle and presentation on day 1
>"Perfect"
Just admit you're tired of playing TF2 and will gobble up any high profile pile of shit that gets pushed out now.
>>337675018
I bought my copy of Team Fortress 2 faggot. It only went F2P after a long and successful career as a game before devolving into "come hang out at our virtual store space" bait.
>>337699027
>you have to play MOBA character switching grabass to get around hard counters
so you never played a dota like game?
there is no character switching in any of those.
just FYI.
>>337690269
I didn't run across a single brony or furry pound server playing overwatch?
>>337699216
If you're not tired of TF2 in it's current state you have a problem.
>>337699150
So they have good taste?
Through waifus, unity
>>337699086
Lol, the blizzdrone marketers are in force today. TF2's original visual design is unmatched in gaming. The use of colour, shading, shape, level design. Overwatch is a random mishmash of shit thrown together from leftover assets of failed games. It has no theme, no style, no character of its own. It looks like an explosion in a wax crayon factory, and like all Blizzard games, the awful graphics are overlaid by the messiest, clunkiest HUD you could conceive.
>>337681912
>6.99
>To make you character green
What the fuck were they thinking?
>>337699254
ASSFAGGOTS games are terrible and full of terrible people, so no.
>>337699216
Everyone is fucking tired of TF2, m8. It's a decade old nearly
TF2 was good but you'd get bored of Overwatch too if they only had 9 characters for a decade
>21 characters
>more coming
>more abilities instead of nonstop weapon switching
>sexy waifus
>>337674690
I like overwatch because it's not an FPS with reinhardt, I get to bludgeon people to death, pink-mist people against walls, and can throw giant, slow shockwaves of force at people who are on buildings.
>>337699395
Basically.
Just waiting on Source 2 and TF3.
Any day now for sure.
>>337698448
Reaper has nothign to do with the Spy. Reaper's barely even an ambush character.
Does this game even feature any male characters? All I see in those threads is ugly girls in shitty costumes.
>>337699420
Those different characters are just equivalent to TF2 loadouts though, so it doesn't really give you more options.
In tf2 you have 9 classes and like 4 ways to play them. Here instead you get 40 characters. Kinda the samey, but tf2 have 10 years of balancing and imo Valve is better at map design.
>>337699336
I really fucking hate how the characters aren't color-coded in Overwatch, just adds that tiny bit of delay on recognizing whether another character is an alley or an enemy
>>337696480
No.
Random Crits there is almost 0 counterplay to them.
In overwatch it's get behind cover for the most part, or have someone else use their ults. Ults are far more predictable than RNGesus.
>>337699027
> to get around hard counters that don't exist in TF2.
So Demoman countering Engineer isn't a thing?
>MOBA character switching
Firstly OW isn't a MOBA, which it's obvious you didn't know because of the utter shit you're unironically posting as fact. Secondly MOBA's like Dota and LoL, HoN, etc, don't allow you to switch characters after you've picked.
>>337699336
Glad I'm not the only one who thinks the Overwatch HUD is fucking shit.
Blizzard is really lucky that there's such a gap in casual shootans right now, or this shit would be dead on arrival.
>>337699518
Yeah there's also this guy
>>337681074
he's there to fuck all the girls
>>337699347
>bashing something before trying it
well what did i expect from /v/ in 2016.
you should at least try a MOBA and realise for yourself that they arecomplete shit
>>337699483
>bashing helpless mercys after charge killing their reinhardt
>bashing the living shit out of dva the second she gets out of her mech
fuck man, reinhardt is too much fun.
>>337699518
yes
>>337699570
man i agree with you on the maps, the maps in overwatch really aren't that great from a gameplay perspective, it's always chokepoint followed by main path and 2 side paths, followed by big open checkpoint area, TF2 maps were way better
>>337699603
i didn't have this problem during open beta, they have a very clear red outline hard to mess it up.
>>337699553
no, the loadouts are equivalent to the skills each character in overwatch has
the loadouts in tf2 dont make you play the game much differently
>hurr i use family business huolong heater and boxing gloves now im playing a different character
no
>>337699420
>TF2 adds more weapons so you can play differently
>Overwatch just pulls a donut steel from Deviantart and puts a TF2 weapon set on them
Wow based Blizzard
>>337699553
except the cool movement abilities and passives
art and voice lines are cool too
>>337681204
>literal dreamworks character
>>337699518
Most of the toons are male, actual.
>wahh I'm seriously upset people want to play another game after 10 years
>>337699514
>Reaper's barely even an ambush character.
Then why do his weapons only do real damage at melee range?
>>337699603
I can see how that would put you at a disadvantage against people who aren't retarded
>>337674690
Dat ass is definitely better than anything on tf2
>>337699624
Engi can be countered by demo, soldier, spy or ubered heavy. TF2 has very few hard counters that require changing classes. OW is a game of paper scissor stone
>>337699336
Your so delusional it hurts
>blizzdrone marketers
there it is again
>>337699603
They literally are, the enemy has a big red name and health bar over them, they're outlined in red, and you can't see them through walls so any person you didn't see coming around the corner is easily distinguished.
>>337699336
What's wrong with the HUD? This isn't Battleborn.
>>337699553
>Those different characters are just equivalent to TF2 loadouts though, so it doesn't really give you more options.
>>337699570
> Here instead you get 40 characters. Kinda the samey
Wrong. A character using a different loadout in TF2 still has mostly the same playstyle due to the hard limits the class imposes but only with a varying degree of difference from vanilla as a result of the new gun, new deployable, etc.
>>337699624
Demo vs Engie is literally the only thing that can be considered a hard counter in TF2, while every single character in Overwatch counters and is countered by someone else.
>>337699684
Again, what's wrong with the HUD?
see >>337700160
>>337680618
The fact it doesn't have private servers will actually make it easier to avoid. Same with no sprays
https://youtu.be/C6OaMH6vH3M
OR
https://youtu.be/GLlLQ3LmZWU
Which one was better?
>>337700030
I just prefer the red/blue clothes from TF2And you see them through walls all the time if you have a widowmaker on your team
>>337675627
>underaged summerfag.
2 memes in the price of 1
>>337699947
I'm more upset that Overwatch is a piece of garbage and not a good game.
>No custom servers
>Rock-Paper-Scissors characters
>MOBA/FPS hybrid gameplay
>Horrendous HUD
>$40
>Blizzard in charge of doing anything right ever this decade
>>337699825
>the loadouts in tf2 dont make you play the game much differently
demoknight/demoman -> reinhard/junkrat
brass beast/tomislav -> bastion/soldier 76
gunboats soldier is a very different playstyle to shotgun
DR spy vs stock
gunslinger engie vs stock
>>337700180
>le counter pick trumps skill meme
a better player always wins
>only hard counter is demo vs engi
>charging targe makes pyro obsolete
>short circuit firing speed makes demo and soldier obsolete
>sniper vs heavy
>razorback when in an engi nest makes spies completely useless
take your head out of your ass
>>337697338
I like Overwatch, but how the fuck is that irrelevant? It is dead obvious Overwatch took a lot of inspiration from TF2. It is almost as if they got so butthurt, Valve manage to pull off Dota 2 infront of their eyes after declining Icefrogs offer.
>>337700180
>every single character in Overwatch counters and is countered by someone else.
But this isn't true. It's so easy to point out the people who didn't play the FREE beta because they just spout the most ridiculous shit here.
>>337700238
People's names floating over their heads is retarded.
>>337675814
>valve invented grenade launchers
>>337700292
>And you see them through walls all the time if you have a widowmaker on your team
Its only sometimes and they are fucking bright red sillouettes. You have to be mentally retarded to fuck it up man.
>>337688185
>Zarya
Fuck off
>>337683328
Which consists of 75% of corner camping bastion players.
>>337700492
Blizzard was even telling people what countered what when they bitched about characters during the Beta, don't make shit up for them.
>>337700160
Doesn't stand out against light backgrounds
Important information in the corners, may not matter if you're on console like the target market
Health bars/player names in key areas causing visual clutter
>>337700520
I literally cannot name a multiplayer game that doesn't do this.
CoD
Battlefield
Gears of War
Fucking Minecraft
WoW and LoL
I think the only games that DON'T do this are fighters.
>>337700631
That was a joke you idiot
>>337700738
TF2 doesn't, and that's what we're comparing it to here.
>>337700459
>charging targe makes pyro obsolete
Nope. Pyro exists to protect the combo with airblast and nothing else, charging targe makes no difference. No, the pyro can't damage him but pyros aren't there to damage, they only exist for airblast. Demoknights are useless anyway.
>>337699331
They mainly love Widowmaker and Tracer while I prefer D.Va
>>337700456
the only worthwhile thing you mentioned is the gunslinger
youre saying having different deployment speeds on your minigun (bb vs tomi) is enough depth to qualify for an entirely different playstyle that is replayable and worthy of note?
surely you see the hard boundaries set by being X character and only so much is left to variation, most weapons function the same way and the little differences here and there (like the targe and slinger) dont match the unique playstyles of overwatch
>>337700868
I would say that makes TF2 the retarded one since it doesn't do something most other shooters and videogames in general do, doesn't it?
>>337701087
But it looked better.
>>337700895
>pyro cant damage him now because he picked this weapon in the loadout and thats okay
stop
>>337700745
Pretty lame joke desu senpai
>>337700459
>short circuit firing speed makes demo and soldier obsolete
So engie is a hard counter to demo and soldier, who are hard counters to engie? You haven't thought that through.
>sniper vs heavy
That's not a hard counter, just a matter of range. Sniper beats heavy at long range, heavy beats sniper at near range.
>razorback when in an engi nest makes spies completely useless
Sap the engie nest, kill the engie, shoot the sniper. One player isn't supposed to be able to take out multiple opponents single hand anyway.
>>337700658
Yeah, but what was said was "Every single character has a hard counter", which isn't true.
>>337700661
>Doesn't stand out against light backgrounds
Evidently not true
>Important information in the corners
Yeah, like any shooter, including TF2.
>Health bars/player names in key areas causing visual clutter
Health bars only passively appear at close distance (Or if you're doing damage/healing to someone) and they scale depending on how far away you are.
Next straw man?
>>337680694
this
>9.5 million players in 4 days in a beta
>TF2's peak was like 130k
i think its a lot more fun than TF2 was even at launch and i've been playing TF2 since like 2008 only time will tell to see if blizzard fucks the entire thing up
>>337700656
nah, only for day 1 beginners
bastion is actually highly situational and not "op" at all, if anything, he's considered underpowered
>>337674981
But TF2 wasn't $60
Hell, I think it was $20 before it went F2P
>>337701721
OW is $40.
>>337701862
Yes but even for $40, three very similar game modes is a bit iffy
Overwatch is going to die in a month
>>337701721
TF2
>20 bucks
>9 classes
>5 maps
>3 gamemodes or something like that
Overwatch
>40 bucks
>21 classes
>12 maps
>4 gamemodes
i feel like it's properly priced, and just like TF2 all the future content will be free minus Steam community market, minus idling, minus going F2P (probably/hopefully)
>>337701252
Pyro isn't a damage class, it's a pure defensive class. The only value it has to a team is airblast. Demoknight is useless, pyro stops him with an airblast then the demoknight dies instantly to the combat classes.
Just gonna leave this here....
>>337683207
>>337686440
What are you people doing with those dolphins you bought?
>>337676872
How is free a good thing motherfucker?
>>337701921
eh... all heroes are unlocked, and there'll be new maps / heroes on a regular basis included in that.
yes you're paying for future content, but this is blizzard, they have some staying power, so you know the game won't be switched off in a year.
and it's much better than pay2win
>>337701921
As opposed to TF2's control point, capture the flag, and territorial control that it had on launch?
>>337702206
Definitely, but I was iffy about that model with Splatoon and my view hasn't changed for Overwatch. Yet.
>>337701407
>Evidently not true
White on white equals not clear. Basic design
>Yeah, like any shooter, including TF2.
TF2 has custom huds
>Health bars only passively appear at close distance
And they are still clutter.
Stop defending Blizzard's awful graphic design, just because you spent hundreds playing WoW doesn't mean you can't have your own opinions.
>>337701330
hard counter: "i cant do anything because someone chose to play a certain way"
engie deletes all projectiles, demo and soldier cant do anything about it
sniper stays back like theyre supposed to (seriously are you retarded?) heavy cant do anything about it
sniper equips razorback and stays in defensive spot with sentries watching on a pl or cp map, spy cant feasibly do anything about it
also
>pyro vs spy
guess you literally are retarded if you think theres only 1 hard counter
>>337702267
yeah, I get that.
did you get to play the beta?
>>337702143
I've never seen monster trucks driving around advertising TF2, or Taco Bell tie-ins, or the game promoted on the front page of Steam or at whatever Valve has instead of Blizzcon.
>>337702067
TF2 had something that OW doesn't and it will sound the death knell for it
>Mods
This game is gonna die like Diablo 3.
>>337702318
for some reasons, there's really not that many "hard counters" in overwatch.. some are almost that, but mostly it's more like soft counters, where you have to play uphill, but can still pull off great things sometimes
>>337702258
TF2 had private servers with custom game modes to mitigate that stagnation, and it was $20. Overwatch is more restricted with that and it's $40 so there's not much to work with.
Don't get me wrong, I liked the beta, but I'm not entirely sure I wanna go spend the money on it unless I know we're getting some more variety on that front.
>>337702206
TF2 had unlimited content via custom maps and gamemodes. OW is entirely relying on the company that thinks it's OK to play the same raid for 9 months.
>>337702487
what's your favourite TF2 mod anon?
>This game is gonna die like Diablo 3.
wich still gets new content(areas items balancing) and new seasons every 2 months or so? despite not bringing in any more money for blizzard?
>>337702074
>1 2 3 Offense
>pyro is 3
>one hit from a flamethrower ticks away like 60 of your life
>huge dps potential with m1 m2 flaregun m1
>always in the front line because useless in the back
>telling me its a defense class because youve seen 1 pyro hide in an engi nest to counter spies
>>337702578
I guess that's why their MMO failed like it didand the company had to close
TF2 has better writing
>>337702273
B-BLIZZARD SHILL! SHILL!
I've never played a Blizzard game before. I loathed WoW because I played Guild Wars and Eve when it was more popular. Starcraft, HotS, and Hearthstone don't interest me.
>White on white equals not clear. Basic design
Not when there's a black outline on all HUD elements which makes your point irrelevant.
>TF2 has custom huds
>moving the goalposts by bringing in mods to the discussion
I slightly agree on the healthbars but when playing the beta they weren't a big problem at all. Is Overwatch being a good game threatening to you or something? You're clinging to the most worthless straw men arguments to try and shoot it down.
>>337702450
Its still on the top 10 most played steam games, so do they really need advertising?
>>337702318
>sniper equips razorback and stays in defensive spot with sentries watching on a pl or cp map
Sentries, which require an engineer. A 2v1 is not a hard counter. I've already told you how the spy takes them out.
>engie deletes all projectiles, demo and soldier cant do anything about it
The SC was nerfed, it can't shut down either of them now.
>sniper stays back like theyre supposed to (seriously are you retarded?) heavy cant do anything about it
Sniper can only kill a heavy with a fully charged headshot, as long as the heavy doesn't have bb or natasha. And in case you hadn't noticed, TF2 is a team game, the clue's in the name. A heavy isn't supposed to take on anyone by himself.
