When will you contrarians admit that this game improved every aspect from Oblivion
>enemies scaling practically removed
>combat is actually fun
> no more randumb generated caves and dungeons
>leveling up system works better and discourages broken builds where you are good at everything
>your mana pool isn't tied to a stat
>character designs aren't laughable
>fighting dragons is more fun and rewarding then oblivion gates that all look the fucking same
>>337518127
I genuinely believe that Skyrim is objectively better than Oblivion.
Morrowind on the other hand is still up for debate.
I'm going to take a shot in the dark and guess that it was mostly due to the streamlining that it's predecessors had before them. For example, people got pissed off with the removal of spears, and the minimalist take on spells and armor in Skyrim. People enjoy having tools and options to work with. It's why modding is so popular in Bethesda games.
>>337520253
cont.
They're cutting so many corners from the square that they ended up with a circle
>>337518127
the story and writing is complete garabage, you do like two quests before you head of a guild. Oblivion at least had some pretty danm good side quests and the dark brotherhood and thieves guild quest line were among the best in the series.
Enemies scaling is still pretty huge? Not sure what you mean with that point.
The biggest flaw in skyrim is the role play aspect is seriously worse, but it's such a mod ready game that isn't hard to fix if you want it.
Worse quests
>>337520810
Talking about quests, does anyone have the rant on the Thieves Guild quest line?
>>337518127
>combat is actually fun
kek
> no more randumb generated caves and dungeons
this ancient 400000 year old cave with a shortcut back to the beginning right at the end is totally unique and awesome!
you also forgot:
>garbage story
>garbage quests
>garbage characters
>literally pointless to explore when everything is a straight hallway cave with a shortcut back to the start
I think Skyrim is overall better than Oblivion, but none of the Skyrim quests are as fun as the Elder Scroll heist or Whodunit?
>>337518127
>Discourages broken builds where you are good at everything
You can't be fucking serious with this one
>no more randumb generated caves and dungeons
Good and bad it gets awfully boring when you start seeing the same things
>hey a crypt can't wait to see that one big room with the pathways overhead filled with draugr archers and the same puzzles over and over again!
although I absolutely fucking loved the Dwarven ruins they always scratch that itch of an actual adventure for me for some reason
>>337518127
I agree that it made several improvements, but Skyrim's quests were vastly inferior to Oblivion's. The quests are one of the things I care about most in an RPG, so that's a major disappointment.
My one complaint was this:
'YOU ARE THE ONE, EVERYTHING!'
It was like...goddammit how come I have to be the chosen one for everything? Yeah yeah you wanna make the gamer feel special. But after a while it started getting ridiculous.
>>337518127
>improved every aspect from Oblivion
Except the fact builds are pretty much non existent, hand-to-hand was butchered and removed as a skill, quests are shitter, factions are shitter, spellcrafting sucks, draugr's every fucking where, every thing else they cut.
Who here has played Nehrim and anticipating the release of Enderal?
>>337521028
This?
http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=14422
>>337521451
Atleast the dawn guard quest line was pretty good
>>337518127
Yes I agree, Oblivion was shit
Morrowind was better than both
>>337521680
>You can't marry Serana
Wasted potential
>>337521756
Still don't know why they did that I think it was just to give a middle finger to all the waifufags
>>337520253
>minimalist take on spells
"Minimalist" is a very charitable way of putting it.
The spells in Skyrim are another example of one step forward and two steps back. They introduced these cool new ideas like spray spells, rune spells, cloak spells, "wall" spells, and master spells that take time to charge up, and then made all of them suck. It's good that they actually had some ideas for spell delivery besides "single projectile" and "touch" (with AoE variants of each), but then they implemented it terribly.
However, I do like the new system of charging a spell in your hand and then releasing it. That gives you a lot more control over the spell than you had in Oblivion, where it was very easy to press the cast button with a shot lined up, have the angle change while your character is in the middle of casting, and not being able to compensate reliably.
>>337520720
>Enemies scaling is still pretty huge? Not sure what you mean with that point.
He was probably referring to the "bandits in glass armor" problem, which has indeed been solved. Skyrim also handles its scaling a little more intelligently, with its dungeons having level ranges instead of literally every single enemy scaling 1:1 with your character.
Don't know how people can say Skyrim was an improvement when it took more away and is even more simplified.
>>337521831
>include a marriage system, but don't allow you to marry the only halfway attractive female in the game
why even bother?
>>337521547
Me. I never actually did everything in Nehrim since the hard drive it was on died shortly after I finished the main quest, but I liked it. Although for a game where the PC's ability to do magic is actually part of the plot, the spells were pretty disappointing. They were all just Fireball 1, Fireball 2, etc. Nothing creative like some of the spell mods had.
>>337518127
Got worse in terms of writing, lore, quests, factions, spell variety, stat customization, etc.
It's more polished, sure, but it's sorely lacking in many important areas.
>>337521756
>>337521831
>>337522474
They even went out of their way to record dialogue for her turning you down.
>>337522150
Not sure if this applies or if because I nodded it to hell and back but
>2nd playthrough
>early level fight some forsworn just as easy as everything else, decide to focus on the other side of the map and raise about 20 levels
>fighr forsworn again and just about every type of them kill me in 1 or 2 hits
>>337521756
Serana was an ugly manfaced shit
>>337518127
Oh fuck I can't w8 for this b8 to gener8 8 billion replies.
>>337522531
>more polished
uhh nigger really? this games broke as fuck and worse in every way than oblivion
>>337522636
Every woman was manfaced in the game, at least Serana had something going for her with all "muh daddy issues"
>>337521351
I wanna FUCK that draugr
Skyrim has the best overall mechanics but it is so streamlined that many things just feel blown up ones ass and we all miss cheesing the magic system with zero mana cost spells and that one spell that would oneshot everything but needed 10 conditions to be even castable.
That said, see this list more in relation to the immersion I had at the time.
Leaving out Hearthstone for obvious reasons
Morrowind>Shivering Isles>Tribunal>Dawnguard>Dragonborn>Skyrim>Bloodmoon>Oblivion
>>337522950
My grafix card must have been bad too, because her nose had visible polygons on the end. It was horrifying.
Can you backflip in Skyrim?
>>337522794
Not really, you don't remember distant land just plain looking like shit in vanilla 1.0 Oblivion and a host of bugs and other shit
Skyrim is definitely less buggy. Not NOT buggy, it's still buggy as shit, just less so than Oblivion.
>>337523382
>Tribunal over Bloodmoon
Were you young at the time Tribunal was really not good, not as good as Bloodmoon at all.
I played Oblivion first and not even Nostalgia can save it. I like it the least of the modern 3 Elder Scrolls games.
Morrowind > Skyrim > Oblivion.
>>337523591
>implying Bloodmoon wasn't shitty in its own way
The enemies are just sort of randomly scattered around and you can't walk more than 100 feet without running into one and they're mostly annoying as shit (e.g. spriggans that you have to kill three times)
>>337522950
Don't forget her voice.
>>337518127
Skyrim has shit quests and some areas are annoying to traverse
>>337522008
I'm with this anon with the point that they've done some nice additions and improvements where the previous games suffered from but 'took two steps back'. Yes, the points brought up by OP are great changes but the negative changes were pushed under the table. All of the Elder Scroll's games have had their own problems, it's not like everyone one of them was of perfect design. It's more so a problem with Bethesda's way of designing games, they are cutting corners wherever they can.
tldr; OP's opinion is biased and Bethesda need to step up their games
>>337523736
Spriggins were pretty rare actually. It was mostly bears, wolves and reiklings. All easy and quick to kill. Running around the nice white landscape, maybe getting caught in a blizzard and exploring the island is much better than Mournhold.
I'd take them over Goblins in the Sewers.
>>337523591
I was arround 16 I think.
I played them back to back and after Tribunal, whacking some goat to get a stick didn't do alot for me after having to face Almalexia and Sotha Sils machinations.
>>337523439
Thats just because Bethesda fucked up the normal maps for NPCs faces
Skyrim is definitely way better than the knee jerk contrarian "me too" crowd likes to pretend. My frustration with it is generally in the way they streamlined certain aspects to make it more player friendly and lost some of the challenge and variety along the way.
But such is the nature of bringing a game deeper into mass appeal.
All of you faggots only hate it because it's popular, it's better than oblivion but "oh no, people play it wah wah wah" /fucking thread
>>337524928
Except oblivion was popular and was actually the TES game that gained mainstream appeal first. It didn't boom like Skyrim did, but it was still pretty mainstream.
Stop trying to defend your butchered ass game by crying that "y-y-you just hate it cause its popular!"
Polishing a turd doesn't make it less of a turd
>>337518127
Shut the fuck up Todd
>>337525270
It was mainstream for gaming before gaming was mainstream
I've actually been playing through Morrowind->Oblivion->Skyrim recently
Morrowind has the best world design and environments, but the world is poorly... designed? I mean that it looks like it could have been randomly generated with stupid cliffs separating zones like an MMO. Best unique architectural designs. NPCs rarely have personality, which the sequels improved on. Many of the quests have no impact and feel like filler. You'll be asked to go kill 3 bandits at x or pick up an item at y. Overall, has the best freedom of customization and sense of power as you progress. I don't mind the pen and paper combat, but you become overpowered too quickly and the game stops challenging you.
Oblivion improved on the world in that it actually feels like you're going through a forest, and hills are natural and realistic. Unmodded it has the worst gameplay by far with the level scaling and combat. And what the fuck is with the faces? Overall it has the best questlines and individual quests in the series.
Skyrim has the best sex mods. Some of the animations people have made are top notch. Has the best combat if you don't like Morrowind's pen and paper style, but it's shit compared to any real first person melee combat game like Dark Messiah, Chivalry, etc. Quests are far weaker than Oblivion's, especially if we're talking about the guilds. Overall, Skyrim has the best immersion and mods.
I used to hate Oblivion, but jumping right into it after completing Morrowind's main quest and expansion made me really appreciate the graphics and even the radiant AI. I'm glad I revisited the series.
I'd much rather a game that makes huge errors in certain areas within morrowinds shell than a game that makes bad errors in an action-rpg shell. Within the TES series at least.
Which is why Oblivion will always be better than Skyrim to me, feels more like a TES game system wise.
>>337525815
I think you've really nailed anon. Every Elder Scrolls has good and bad points. If you like the overall setting you can't go wrong with any of the games.
>>337525270
So?
Oblivion still manages to be the shittier Morrowind and Skyrim at the same time.
>Bland as fuck world.
>Worst story
>All the fucked mechanics from Morrowind only worse when it comes to scaling.
>Fast travel introduced into a world that didn't have anything of worth to explore anyway.
Only good thing about it was Shivering Isles, maybe the best of all TES expansions, which was still suffering from the mechanics of the core game.
>>337526678
Nothing can be the shittier Skyrim except Skyrim 2, coming next year.
>no more randumb generated caves and dungeons
Skyrims dungeons are even worst
>fighting dragons is more fun and rewarding then oblivion gates that all look the fucking same
Dragons were no fun at all after the second one
Both games were shit but at least Oblivion actually had some decent quests and guilds
>>337526801
atleast try to reason with me
skyrim was better than oblivion but not as good as morrowind.
but the trend of casualization remains. morrowind was more casual than daggerfall, oblivion was more casual than morrowind, and then skyrim was a bit more casual than oblivion. but skyrim is just barely on the cusp of being an RPG. bethesda's next game, Fallout 4, isn't even an rpg anymore and is just an action shooter game like far cry 3/4 or borderlands.
how will the next bethesda game be? will it edge back into rpg territory or will it push further into the realm of press x to awesome?
>>337518127
>every aspect
The guild quests were retarded. Good luck arguing that those are better than Oblivion's.
>>337520789
Massive cringe.
>>337526678
You have to admit that the Dark Brotherhood was a fun ride. And the ship that gets hijacked by pirates if you sleep on it. And the quest to fetch the burden enchanted ring from the well. Oh, and the enchanted painting. Oblivion really shines there where Morrowind and Skyrim don't
>>337526678
Well that's just your opinion. Lots of people like Oblivion, myself included. I liked the story, it was refreshing not being THE CHOSEN ONE for once. Yeah level scaling sucks, but every game has its downside. Fast travel is convenient and optional, every fuckin game has it now; deal with it.
>>337527234
>not being THE CHOSEN ONE
you kinda are t b h
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAsXyzjCYPg
>>337521229
>this ancient 400000 year old cave with a shortcut back to the beginning right at the end is totally unique and awesome!
Why does this bother some people so much? Is it really so much fun to walk all the way back the way you came?
>>337527383
He says that, but ultimately you end up being the muscle for the really important guy. You know, until the DLC makes you a literal god.
>>337525815
>Skyrim has the best sex mods
Yeah, if you like futa shit. Oblivion beats Skyrim sex mods out of the water with everything else. There's a lot of good shit that was made for Oblivion but never made for Skyrim.
>Some of the animations people have made are top notch
Funny how Skyrim was the first game to have sex animations never aligning correctly. Oblivion and New Vegas manage to actually have all the animations line up, so a guy isn't humping air when trying to fuck you for example.
>>337526678
>Bland as fuck world
>Not getting a mod that turns Cyrodiil into a jungle
It's your fault senpai.
>>337527553
Spot the casual.
>>337527673
no
http://booru.legacywaste.org/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=6810
>>337527218
Sure vanilla Oblivion had it good parts, especially the Dark Brotherhodd and the genuine legendary Thieves Guild questline but I feel many people didn't even see most of Skyrim, otherwise this endless discussion would come to an end.
Has anyone of the people that think Oblivion>Skyrim even played Dawnguard? Or found themselves in the dwemer underground biome with glowing mushrooms and shit? Or went into the wastly more interesting Oblivion realm of Apocrypha opposed to edgy towers world? Hell even the Vallhalla knock off at the end of vanilla Skyrim?
I played the shit of all of them but 19 old me didn't find Oblivion half as entertaining as 26 old me playing Skyrim, especially coming from Morrowind.Shivering Isles was the best though
>>337526678
Fast travel was in Daggerfall, dingus. Morrowind is the black sheep of this subject.
>>337527673
http://www.loverslab.com/topic/51365-0sex-skyrim-sex-sim-other-0s-content-wip/
Look at the gifs here and tell me Oblivion has better sex mods
>>337528247
to be fair Daggerfall is bigger than real life countries
>>337527995
>Heavily photoshopped mod where the person also had to use sexlab's positioning system to get everything lined up
K
>>337528291
>M-Muh graphics
>mfw
>>337528767
>>337528096
I care more about quests than environments, and Skyrim's quests are bad.
>>337528491
It's odd, though, that there seems to be a lot of overlap between people who want to remove fast travel and people who want the world to be huge.
Oblivion at least has some depth to it. Skyrim is so shallow as a roleplaying game.
>>337529254
The people who want fast travel removed want limited, realistic fast travel like in Morrowind. Striders (or wagons in other settings), gondoliers, ships, mages guilds, mark and recall, divine/almsivi intervention. The important difference is that you can only use them in safe locations like towns, and the portable items only take you to certain places.
>>337518127
>combat is actually fun
you literally swing your shit until the enemy is dead, occasionally stopping to heal.
>>337529582
This, and it also helps alot if the developers craft the quests arround such a system ergo no quasi repeatable fucking quests to raise X, which are only excusable if you can teleport.
>>337527553
Instead of adding suspense adding ambushes on your way back out, hidden items and hidden paths that are only observable by walking back out the way you came, cave ins forcing you to find an alternate way let's just give the player a "hidden" passage way back to the beginning.
>>337518127
Op is obviously a faggot. Didnt even mention the shit guilds in SKyrim
>>337518127
Questing/Dungeoning:
>Optimal gear is received from enchanting/smithing, while earlier games had uniques or gear found in dungeons/bought being superior. Because of this, gear found in dungeons is always crap, you will have the best gear in the game as soon as you level enchanting
>Fame was removed from the game, further lessening the reward for doing side quests once the fun of just running them leaves
>Disposition was simplified from 0-100 to 0-4, disposition is not even shown ingame and the rewards for changing it in terms of altering quests or allowing them to be finished differently are almost non existent
>Radiant questing was introduced while the number of side quests with actual story were reduced. Raidant quests offer nothing but a reason to revisit a dungeon already cleared when the chance for loot and other such things already offered reasoning
Magic:
>Classes simplified
>Variety of spells lessened
>Dual Casting is boring
>Magic ineffective on certain enemies regardless of perks
>The spells that were left in the game are boring and uninspired (fireball, lightning ball, frost ball etc...)
>It's Skyrim where everyone is stupid and tension over magic is particularly high, but magic should not have been reduced to such a boring state
Leveling:
>Perks are boring, most should come naturally as you level a skill while the perks themselves should allow unique building
>Removal of attributes=removal of fun, lessens time spent trying to build character and lessens the difference between a new character and a built one
>leveling is more impersonal compared to older games, feels less glamorous and after a while is almost completely un noticeable
Continued in next post
>>337518127
>enemies scaling practically removed
No
>combat is actually fun
You mean the same mash left click we've had since morrowind? no
> no more randumb generated caves and dungeons
Yeah instead we have straight lines. Oblivion has the better dungeon design, even if they're still mind-numbingly boring.
>leveling up system works better and discourages broken builds where you are good at everything
leveling up system is retarded and strictly favors dumping everything into health, and you can still be good at everything. In fact, being the best at everything is even EASIER than in Oblivion.
>your mana pool isn't tied to a stat
Yes it is, your mana stat. There is no difference between the two.
>character designs aren't laughable
Yes they are. I will absolutely give you this one though because Oblivion characters are so ugly that if someone said they dropped the game solely because of that, I wouldn't begrudge them.
>fighting dragons is more fun and rewarding then oblivion gates that all look the fucking same
Absolutely not. Dragons are superior to oblivion gates because they die quickly so you can go about your business, but nothing about fighting them is rewarding. You use one shout, and then proceed to power attack or spam your best spell until they die.
>>337530449
actions
>Quest line length greatly reduced, most characters are almost completely insignificant or die after one quest with them
>All the factions in Skyrim have completely fallen apart when you join, no glamor about being a member nor is a feeling of competency ever established by any of the members
>Official ranks are gone, further reducing sense of accomplishment or advancement.
>Most guilds are joined by either being approached randomly or by completely a very simple task, two or three quests later, you're the leader or at least part of the secret club part of the faction.
>Promotion to head of guild is very underwhelming, almost completely un-noticed and no real reward for having done so beyond a token item
Effect of Character on the world:
Probably one of the biggest issues I have with the game, already mentioned the lack of fame, disposition, or noticeable changes when leading a guild but
>NPCs treat you the same from the beginning all the way to 100%
>Being the thane, helping the city, helping individual npcs change nothing
>Ending a Civil War that everyone in the game complains about changes little to nothing besides replacing a few Jarls with identical ones
>Killing the Emperor has very few changes
>Greatly weakening the Dominion presence changes little
>For a game where you're more of a hero, compared to Oblivion where you're just helping Martin and Morrowind where you're a filthy outsider, almost none of the NPCs react to your status nor is your character ever really acknowledged outside of important quests
Every"RPG" Bethesda makes is absolute garbage made for normie plebs. Kill yourself
>>337528096
Yes, I did play Dawnguard. I liked Shivering Isles more. I was down to the mushroom area, I enjoyed it and the unique dragon. I also like everything else about the game much less than Oblivion so it didn't matter much when I prefer having attributes, real quests, and a reason to actually go spelunking besides adding to my pile of shit.
>>337530529
These are only the issues I have that immediately come to mind when I think of Skyrim.
Skyrim is an alright game, but Bethesda did so much to reduce lastability of the game that motivation peters out much quicker than their other games. I simply have no reason to ever play the game at all once I've entered Whiterun. I get nothing in terms of gear from running dungeons. Nothing changes from doing quests. Skill and Magic lost variety and attributes being removed takes out any gradual development a character might have (on top of making gear much more uninteresting).
The aspect of this game which is a saving grace is the modding.
In all the games of course.
But without it this game wouldn't be nearly as fun.
Every game needs the depth of mods that these have to save them.
BUT straight out of the box it has issues that pop their ugly head too often.
You mean you didn't play archer and laugh at the ridiculous physics all the way through the game? Cuz, I mean, really, that's the true entertainment value of Skrym:
>(thwip) DONK!
>Ha ha! He went flying, this is hilarious!
Same as it was in Oblivvy.
>>337530449
>>337530529
You know? Cherrypicking doesn't make your points better on the other hand many of those are true regardless.
>Gear
Aside from the big special unique items, you always got shit and you still do Nothing has changed in that regard.
>Disposition
You can finish alot of the quests in different fashion which will weild different rewards
>Radiant Questing
More of a bonus if anything, a thing to disregard at worst, which most people do I guess but hey I know people who were blown away by the fact ,without knowing its a meme, that Skyrim has unlimited questsretard that you are Daniel
>Magic
Yes nobody ever opposed to that
>Leveling
Yeah sure, perks make the expirience more shallow than raising the chance to hit anything. I will say though, I missed being able to jump two metres high.
>Fame
Yeah they fucked that up hard but don't pretend anyone cared if you were the guildmaster of X out of guild X, which is still happening. And while the guild questlines are shorter there are alot of long quests that weren't present in this form prior, like most of the Deadra artefact quests.
>Impact
Individual npcs are always happy to see you if you changed their lives, I agree on the big things though, it's a shame really, even if you have, for example, have proven to be the biggest badass vampire of all time in the Dawnguard campain those fucks in the mantion will still treat you like a pup.
>>337518127
But its not as comfy as Oblivion
>>337521407
OP's post is 100% bait
>>337518127
>Start a new game in Skyrim
>Oh man oh god oh man oh god
>It's pretty sweet
>Get through the first dungeon
>Be impressed it's mercifully sweet compared to the Imperial Sewage
>Immediately go on Le Ebic Quest™ to wander around and do jack all as you explore
>Actually manage to kick off the Thieve's Guild quest when you pull up into Riften
>It's pretty sweet
>Alright shit's getting good 3 quests in, can't wait to see how-
>And it's fucking over. You're the grand master now!
>Wat.
>Hear from some friends that the Mage Guild is pretty fun so you head up north to settle some shi-
>And you're the archmage now congrats.
>Well shit.
>Okay how about this civil wa-
>Settled. Imperials won.
>Jesus was that even two fucking que-
>And you've done all content. Good work!
>Hold the fu-
>Hours Played: 376
>WHEN?! HOW?!
>>337532648
>Gear
Like I said, optimal gear was found in dungeons. This was because attributes were still a part of the game and one could not craft gear that would boost them as much as the ones found in dungeons. The latter were objectively better
>Disposition
My claim was that your disposition no longer alters quest paths. Not quests paths not existing in general
>Radiant Questing
As I said, I feel it came at the cost of real quests. Felt like an easy way out of creating real content. Do you disagree?
>Leveling
Jumping straight into bandit forts held a special place in my heart in Oblivion so that is a little more personal. But I find true value in stats and feel they add a lot of time to a game plus the little aesthetic touches like the messages you get on each level about bettering yourself
>Fame
I found several Daedric quests to be enjoyable in Oblivion. I'll admit a few were shit but I don't feel the ones in Skyrim were enough to alter the quests you'd find just dicking around in some of the cities
>Impact
Maybe I'm autistic but I loved going up to every npc in the game and playing the disposition game, seeing what changes and feel extra warm inside when a quest was altered because I made their grotesque faces warp into what was supposed to be them smiling. It felt much better than the passive system Skyrim adopted that is mostly un-noticeable. It was definitely done because casuals didn't want to be bothered with more complexity (and I only use that for lack of a better word because disposition was just a simple minigame)
Feel free to challenge these points further. It helps down the line.
>>337533093
>Play Oblivion
>Oh god everything looks like shit
>Download mods
>dick around just enjoying watching character get stronger
>stop to get hit by mudcrabs for major skills because leveling in the game is stupid
>get to the point where progression starts to slow down
>Start doing guild quest lines
>Thieves Guild fuck yeah
>Brotherhood this shit is great
>bumping into shit like hackdirt and other small quests as the guilds move you all over Cyrodil
>crawling through dungeons as you pass by and find shit like goblin clan wars
>finish your recommendations for mages guild in the process
>start that shit up
>already hundreds of hours in
>who the fuck is Jauffre?
All I need is a reason to keep building my character and some quests to spice it up and I can keep replaying the game forever. After I play Skyrim once I have no inclination to play it again.
>>337518127
wait what
>enemies scaling practically removed
It's still there
> combat is actually fun
It's the same shitty combat, stupid AI, it makes Mount & Blade's rough AI look good
> no more randumb generated caves and dungeons
It's still there, with the same shitty trap system, lever-pulling, muh Draugr, muh Wall
> leveling up system works better
> discourages broken builds where you are good at everything
Le gather / buy ingredients, le make potions, le upgrade alchemy, le drink alchemy potions, get le OP smith / enchant / smithing bonus, makes le OP equipment = game is broken
I don't get it, why are games like Fallout 4 hated for their pitiful dialogue system/role playing potential but games like Morrowind are considered GOAT?
Morrowind
>Dialogue options consist of Yes and No, not even exaggerating like most Fallout 4 haters do, this is literally the way it is
>That fucking COMBAT SYSTEM
>Quests are literally nothing but fetch quests. First few fighters quests missions = Go here, kill that. First Mage quest missions = Go here, collect this. Again, not even EXAGGERATING, Fallout 4 at LEAST tried to implement some shitty story/twist to keep shit interesting, Morrowind doesn't even try
An example right here:
First Morrowind Fighters guild quest:
>Go to a house
>Dark Elf woman has a "Rat problem"
>Kill rats
>leave and collect reward
First Oblivion fighters guild quest
>Dark Elf woman has a "rat problem"
>You go thinking that you need to kill the rats
>Turns out the rats are her pets
>Real problem turns out to be cougars
>You dispatch the cougars and then seek out a local hunter to find their nest
>You destroy their nest after tracking it down with the hunter
>Problem still hasn't gone away, Cougars are STILL attacking the woman
>You wait outside of her house at night to see if anything suspecious happens
>You then see her next door neighbour planting raw meat outside of an out-of-sight hole to lure nearby cougars into the house
>Turns out her neighbour was the cause of the problem and it was due to her hatred of rats
>solve problem
>collect reward
Why do people like Morrowshit again? Because of it's "LEL SO RANDUM" glitchy ass spells?
>>337534365
Oblivion still has the best Dark Brotherhood quests
Also, it has more quirky quests, like that one quest where you find a painting inside a house, you could initiate a quest with it, and you then step into the painting, the graphics turned into this oily, canvas-y textures & there's this troll you need find
>>337533774
Gladly
>Gear
This was only ever the case in the beginnings of every character and still is. That you can craft your own shit might take away from some of these happy discoverings but you still got and still only get random crap in dungeons, always overshadowed by the major artifacts you get through the equivalent quests.
>Disposition
Ok
>Radiant Questing
I feel it's a kind of biase from your side here, because there are still more than enough fleshed out quests but I think one of us should actually should look up numbers.
>Leveling
Nah you still had to do the same shit over and over to usefully handle any of your stats and perks make them more rewardable if anything.
>Fame
Hm, dick arround again then, some of them end up in fashions and places one wouldn't even suspect from generic wiking rpg, like being sent on an excervation in a huge underground dwemer cavern that connects most of skyrim.
>Impact
Like I said, felt let down here too.
>>337518127
>Combat is actually fun
I'm not gonna read your other bullshit because it's probably just as retarded as this assertion right here
How can anyone think Skyrim has "fun" combat while also having played more than 10 video games? Do you just have really low fucking standards?
I mean fuck, Oblivion's combat is just as shitty as Skyrim's, but to say either one has fun combat is total delusion
>>337535471
MORROWSHITTERS BTFO
>>337535471
>I don't get it, why are games like Fallout 4 hated for their pitiful dialogue system/role playing potential but games like Morrowind...
Because Fallout is not The Elder Scrolls. Fallout's whole fucking point was talking heads and choice of build far, far beyond combat.
>>337535810
Choice of build is there in Fallout 4.
>>337536086
Oh hey cool can you link me your speech build? Have you done a play through where you join the raiders? I always wanted to place bets and shit on fighters in that arena.
>>337535471
>brings up yes/no dialogue as a point against morrowind
>specifically morrowind
>even though it's the exact same in oblivion and skyrim
>replies to his own post >>337535804
Sad!
>>337535713
>Gear
Perhaps for weapons but many of the armor pieces did not offer a bonus above the value of attributes. Especially with the leveling system, attributes were very valuable and artifacts often did not cover the whole spectrum of slots. I could play for several hundred hours with pants of +10 strength and than find a pair of +12 in a random dungeon. It gave me a reason to clear once I was very far into the game
>Questing
After looking through my very disorganized image folder, I only came up with one for Fallout 3/NV. I'll agree to disagree until I find something floating around my HD
>Leveling
I find the issue is that skills are just leveled to one hundred and reset. Getting new perks is only interesting for so long when you're actually in a position to use them. If a perk gives you an ability when you have twenty, you'll use it less in comparison to a flat number like attributes which takes much longer to max out and will always hold relevancy even if small
>Fame
I definitely enjoyed the Dwemer cavern but it's not expansive enough where I can just sweep quests under the rug for it's existence. It's similar to the Dunwich building often brought up in defense of Fallout 3. It was cool, but it stood out among the otherwise bland locales.
I wouldn't say Skyrim was completely head up its own ass. But when you're playing these games for thousands of hours, you're relying on the smaller things to keep you going. Oblivion had several of these things like quests, dungeon gear, disposition. It gave me a reason to play when I ran through the more interesting parts of the game several times.
Skyrim has notable parts. But when you finish them, what else is keeping you playing? I have trouble answering that.
>>337535471
2002 vs 2015
Morrowind brings something new, fresh and argueably better gameplay mechanism and content to the series.
Fallout 3 shits on the series.
Fallout 4 shits even more, espeically given how good New Vegas was.
>>337536086
>"far beyond combat"
>>337537450
>Fallout 4 was awful and stripped away RPG completely so normies who only play for a few hours don't feel threatened
>people who play games for hundreds of hours are left with absolutely nothing in terms of depth the worst in a long time
>the game is praised on Steam
>people shit on NV for being boring
>boring
>but not 4
>Bethesda will use Fallout 4 success as an example and keeping ripping shit out of their rpgs
Why. Why would they put in so much just to throw it all out for Chad and Mindy?
>>337537382
I think I can't refute any of that without getting into: My opinion>yours
As it stands. I still prefer Skyrim over Oblivion while ironicaly holding Morrowind, which shares many of the problems I have with Oblivion, in an impenetrable bubble.
Thanks for actually going through with this instead of namecalling.
I want to hate fallout 4 I really do, and I acknowledge it has flaws. It is a shit rpg and a shit fallout that goes against the lore constantly. Yet I still enjoy it as a game. I don't know whether to be mad at myself or people who hate on it.
>>337539536
What do you do to find enjoyment in the game? I'm not even bashing you, I genuinely don't know what anybody who actually plays the game for more than a couple of hours would have to do. I find the quests awful but just going around and looting areas gets tiresome.
>>337540803
I give myself a goal or stick to a certain rule set.
You need to give yourself something to work towards as a grand goal that would take a whole lot of recources.
>>337537691
Yeah, this pretty much.
Fans of the series shit on Fallout 4 because it's not a Fallout game
> it's a shitty generic game, a jumbled mess that tries to be many things at once and still end up mediocre, yet somehow coated in a 'Fallout' -themed skin
There you go. That is why..
> Lore breaking, it shits on previous Fallout lore
> Stripped and dumbed down gameplay & RPG elements
> Mediocre story, cringey script
> Tries to be more action-oriented shooter, fails because of the old rough engine, it's not as polished as even the shittiest FPS
> muh looting, crafting and base-building, > tried to ofer a sandboxy feel to it
> yet even the shittiest early-access indie sandbox out there is still better
Fallout 4 is a generic cookie-cutter game
> mediocre action game
> mediocre RPG
> mediocre sandbox
It would have done better if it was a RAGE 2 game
>>337541143
Continued since I just thought of more to say: I just find joy in seeing my grand goal get more and more close to being finalized. The gunplay is good enough to keep me entertained long enough to get there. And while the story is pretty shit, hardcore kill all nonhumans brotherhood is pretty entertaining.
Every aspect? Look at the guilds and tell me Skyrim does them better. Compare Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood. The versions in Skyrim are absolutely atrocious.
>>337541376
I just wish the stealth was less shit in both games. Oblivion its awkward skyrim its too easy unless you gimp yourself.
>>337518127
>leveling up system works better and discourages broken builds where you are good at everything
>grind Smithing or Alchemy
>shortcut to max level
It did however mean that you were potentially under-levelled in combat skills against the high level enemies you now encounter. But hey, that Daedric armor.
Skyrim's leveling up was a definite improvement over Oblivion's retarded system. Oblivion XP was one of my essential mods.
Also I didn't like that you could only bump health / magica / stamina and 1 perk. Just seemed simplistic. The perk trees were heavily flawed too, had to use a couple mods for those.
>>337518127
You didnt play oblivion
Oblivion had quests like creating a fucking war between opposing goblin factions and watching them actually fucking go and fight
Skyrim was HURR GO TO DUNGEON FOR MAGICAL DEUS EX PLOT DEVICE FUCK YOU
Not even a single comfy screenshot in this thread? What the fuck.
>>337541602
How about the one where the mage's guild task is literally designed to drown you. Or the one where you go into a guy's painting. It's all so interesting, and clear that they were passionate about what they were making, and not at all phoning it in.
>>337518127
>combat is actually fun
There has never been fun combat in any Elder Scrolls game, I find it hard to believe that anyone actually enjoys the combat in the series or even plays the games for the combat.
>>337541253
You can see how the Jews at Beth are trying to appeal more of the COD kiddies and casuals that usually flock to games like Far Cry
Another problem that arise from his is that now we have another NEW generation of plebs, who think Fallout 4 is the best in the entry
> Skyrim is muh first TES
> Fallout 4 is muh first Fallout
> muh graphics, muh mods, muh edgy cool awesome dragons,muh power armor mechanics
We've already got this shit
> the OG TES plebs
> Morrowind is best TES(true)
> Oblivion nostaligiafags
> Skyrim newfags
and this
> OG Fallout plebs
> Fallout 3 is best Fallout
> Fallout NV is best Fallout(true)
Fallout 4 spawns the same generation of newfags that glorifiy and crown Skyrim as the best TES game
> the older Fallout/TES are shit becausegraphics hurt my eyes, shit clunky controls, I can't into 'retro' games they're shit
>>337542060
Well he might overstated that but if that's your only problem.
Hitting things for less damage is more fun than "apparently" punching air.
>>337541998
Yeah, holy shit i never did that second one, damn, i wanna see that
>>337541956
>>337543165
> my first gaming pc
> my first TES
> my first modding experience
> muh mods, muh graphics
Brb filling my screenshot folders, recording and uploading on Youtube
