This is how stupid souls fans are
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This is how stupid souls fans are
Why does the design of the games make the fans stupid?
>>337009343
not what I am implying
*sucks miyazaki's cock* yeah dude 3 isn't linear at all
>circular level design is good because it satisfies my OCD
Fuck off Matthew
>>337009430
great poast nobody understands u but at least your mommy does ;^)
>>337009606
well >>337009434 understood, perhaps you are just slow
>>337009648
coming from the retard who has no point who makes epic lore posts on 4chan trying to make anons Guess which retarded opinion he's hinting at in OP
Go suck on your mommys tit kiddo winkieface
>>337009174
Just like your thread.
>>337009174
Oh yeah because Izalith wasnt linear
Or archives
Or Anor Londo
Or tomb of giants
Or all of the DLC
Or most of blighttown
>>337009174
I love Dark Souls 1 world design as much as the next guy, but come on, it's not NEARLY as advanced as that image makes it out to be
>>337009789
>>337009876
That is my point, Souls fans go around eating up memes such as this picture.
>>337009998
brilliant
thread of tehh years
>>337010103
still mad I called you slow
How old were you when you grew our of your "Souls" phase?
>>337010412
still like the games, fans though...
fixed
>>337010575
better
>>337009789
those are all the penultimate bosses and blightown wasn't linear at all
>>337009789
The areas where you go to get the Lord Souls are linear, yes. They could have done more with connecting them back to the areas in the rest of the game, but it makes a certain amount of sense that they wouldn't connect either (they all have lore reasons for being remote)
The DLC is only three areas, how the fuck else were they supposed to connect them but in a straight line?
Anor Londo connects to the Painted World, Sen's Fortress, and the Archives. Blighttown connects to the Great Hollow, the Depths, the Valley of Drakes, and the Demon Ruins.
A real comparision
>>337011573
best level design in the series, Dark Souls 3 sure is great :^)
buy that season pass, the dlc will just make it better :>)
I think diversity in world design isn't a bad thing in a series.
It's just that it would be better received had it gone from more linear to more complex instead of the other way around. On top of perhaps making the connections more coherent. What with the lift in Earthern Peak leading to a lava castle in the sky, but then again I buy the theory that the game just omits longer, uneventful treks between the locations.
And DaS 1, as beautifully coherent as it was, did strike me as really convenient that all the goals you need to "save" the world were more or less in walking distance of the capital instead of scattered over the whole country.
>>337011573
this is so true
>>337011963
If you've seen the map of Drangleic that comes with the CE of Dark Souls 2 you'll see that Earthen Peak and the Iron King castle keep place are actually a long ways away from each other, the game takes you all over the continent of it but just doesn't show the transitions.
>>337009174
fixed.
>>337012596
DELETE THIS
>>337012596
Would it kill them to try to connect more areas like they did in Dark Souls 1?
Where does Bloodborne fit in?
Can someone post OS's image on Japanese boards and post back their responses?
>>337009174
Dark Souls 1 has a confusing as fuck layout especially early on. And then areas that are totally hidden for no reason.
Just because you're ok either using a guide like a faggot or running around in circles because autism doesn't mean the rest of us should have to deal with it.
>>337009174
i dont get it
>>337012876
*OP's image
>>337009174
>>337010575
>>337011573
>>337012338
Why does this matter? What's wrong with being able to play the game without using a wiki?
>>337012896
>hurrrrr i confused, just give me tunnels!!
>>337012732
Yeah because than people would complain about not-Skeltans destroying them again.
>>337013026
the point was more about how Souls fan suck Miyazaki's cock and hustle memes instead of thinking critically
>>337013192
I don't understand how the map layout relates to that.
>>337012896
The only things hidden and hard to find in Das1 were optional and designed to be hidden and hard to find. Anyone with a half-decent sense of 3D space and direction could make a mental map of the entire game with ease because it all fit together logically (EG the thing you see in the distance is actually that far away, no weird overlapping areas or impossible transitions) and the game makes a point of having visible landmarks all over the place.
It shits the bed a bit later on, with Izalith, Tomb of Giants and Abyss all ending in dead ends that you need to warp out of, but Firelink, Burg, Parish, Darkroot, Depths, Blighttown, New Londo, Valley of Drakes is one of the best examples of level design ever (looking at them as a whole, individually most areas are pretty meh from a design standpoint).
>>337013345
It thinks that DaS 2's levels weren't shitty tunnels
>>337012596
Updated this map
What areas could be good for DLC?
I think below lothric, the forest further from cathedral of the deep, or the icy mountains surrounding the entire area could be cool.
>>337013345
1 and 3 are not that complex and 2 is not that simple >>337011573 is more accurate
>>337012827
Hybrid of 2/3
>>337009434
Every single Souls game is linear.
You know how a non-linear game looks like? Try Romancing Saga III.
>linearity is always bad and in all implementations
>>337013591
So you don't know what linear means?
>>337013482
Here.
Map is more accessible if you flip it, personally, considering that's how you first see everything.
>>337013682
you dumb shit, refer to >>337013485
>>337013497
more like 1 and 3
>>337009174
The same people who complain that Souls games aren't "linear" enough probably would have preferred the series to take an open world approach.
You are all shitters.
>>337013856
Bloodborne is pretty linear. 1 isn't at all
>>337009174
seems pretty accurate to me, though that pic is far too generous to DaS1 / DaS3
Which game has this one?
>>337013692
>OOOO I can take THIS hallway, instead of THAT hallway!
>So much FREEDOM!
>>337013990
Gran Turismo?
>>337013990__________LOL___
>>337014021
Yep, you have no idea what linear means
>Linear is bad
Probably the worst popular opinion /v/ has.
But I agree DS2 was dumb.
>>337013382
>The only things hidden and hard to find in Das1 were optional and designed to be hidden and hard to find.
the hardest thing to find in DaS1 was ash lake because it was hidden behind 2 secret doors. if you were playing online, this was still pretty easy to find since messages would be everywhere explicitly telling you about the secret doors.archdragon peak in DaS3 is WAY more hidden than that, since using a gesture at a fairly random spot in a previous linear area is a hilariously obscure way to get there.
>>337014142
>I can kill THIS boss before THAT boss!
>So much open ended gameplay!
lol, ok.
>>337011573
>DS2's map looks like a tree
DEEPEST LORE
>>337014262
Is this bait?
Because DeS is a tutorial followed by 5 linear paths. Out of all the games it probably has the choice in what order you do stuff in.
>>337013990
The game of loss
>>337014329
You're actually just listing ways in which the games are non-linear, amazing
>>337009789
>level has start point and end point
wow fuck this linear trash
>>337014262
Demons souls is actually the most open of all the games though.
Not that it makes it better for that reason.
>>337009789
> Or most of blighttown
How is Blightown linear?
>still pushing the "dark souls 2 is better meme"
Stop. You are embarrassing yourself.
>>337013856
None of the games are as open as the first game. Bloodborne and DaS3 both have some pretty apparent similarities in their level design, which is largely linear with some alternate paths that mostly end in dead ends. Pretty much the sole exception is the forest looping back around to the clinic.
>>337014523
That's stupid, anon. It's not open at all.
If anything it's the most linear.
Still my favorite though.
>>337014523
This, besides the opening in 1-1 you are open to go to any other archstone
>>337014197
It's only hard to find because you get the gesture a decent bit later
I immediately noticed that the dragon man was facing the buildings in the cliffs (which I noticed in AL) but I still missed it
>>337009648
Wait. I don't understand DS2, then. What's the X?
>>337014197
>get to that part of Irithyll dungeon
>see broken apart dragonman sitting there looking off in the distance
>"time for gesture" written next to him
>try all my gestures, get nothing
>find gesture later on
>"remember!" or something like that written right in front of it
thank you message system
>>337014724
>demons using that pic
>each world connects to another
nah its more like
>>337014523
>>337013591
this
>>337014965
It's more that you have the freedom to jump to different worlds anytime you want. Whether they connect or not is irrelevant.
>>337014965
The point is to map out how you can progress. Those connecting paths aren't meant to imply that the areas literally connect, but that you can go back and forth between them on a whim. If you want to get really pedantic, all of the areas in Demon's Souls are directly connected through the Nexus. It's not much different from the teleporting you have to do to get from Undead Asylum to Firelink, or Sen's to Anor Londo, or to the painted world, or the kiln.
>>337014708
you are free to do any world you want after 1-1
you could do something like 4-1, 4-2, 3-1, 2-1, 3-2, 3-3, 5-1, 4-3, 5-2, 1-2, 1-3, 5-3, 2-2, 2-3, 1-4
while in darksouls you will always have to do the 2 bells, sens and anor londo before you can go after any of the lord souls except 4kings
>>337013482
Firelink Shrine/Untended Graves are on the other side of the map. They are to the upper left of Lothric Castle.
Consumed Kings Garden is between Lothric Castle and Grand Archives. It's directly unter the two bridges between them.
Smouldering Lake is directly beneath the water portion in Irithyll. You can see the bridge connecting Irithyll and the Dungeon from the pathway leading up to the ballista.
>>337009174
Why should a game linear or not matter.
I dont see the world or more connected being open world going to do anything but make the game give you sever ass beatings.
If the worlds open and you can fight any bosses then youll get lost and get wrecked simply by enemies you shouldnt be fighting.
Linearity isnt a bad thing. Its only bad if its kill a bunch of mooks then go kill the mook boss and rinse and repeat
>>337013990
Bloodborne, in more ways than one
>Dark Souls 1
>each area is a straight corridor that's impossible to get lost in with very few alternate routes
>people call it non-linear because each area for the first 1/3 of the game can be backtracked from
>Dark Souls 3
>each area in itself is completely non-linear and easy to get lost in with many alternate routes and hidden areas
>people hate it because there's no shortcut allowing them to walk directly from High Wall of Lothric to Irithyll
Compare areas like Undead Burg or Undead Parish with Undead Settlement or High Wall of Lothric if you don't believe it.
When will you faggots realize area interconnectivity doesn't matter for shit except autism and that 3 actually has the best level design of the series to date?
>>337015183
In a narrowbass hallway or something similiar no exploration.
Dark Souls 3 reminded me of MG
>>337015230
I got lost plenty in DS1
>>337015183
>More exploration
>Better enemy placement
>More interesting places to see
>Curbs any autism about retarded world design
>Having to figure out the world as a slight puzzle is more fun than going down straight hallways all the time
It's not rocket science you sperg.
>>337015316
you're just retarded
>>337015183
In a game that's about exploration and discovery, linearity would obviously be a bad thing
>>337015369
;_;
>>337014724
>Demon's soul is full of blinking gray dots
I don't understand.
>>337015230
Undead Settlement is a pretty complex area, but High Wall of Lothric only seems like a big area because of how much untraversable space you can see. The area itself is pretty small.
>>337015146
Fuck, I meant upper right.
You can even see its location in this early map.
>>337015417
DeS is so powerful it fucked up your eyesight.
>>337015417
optical illusion
>>337012225
this would make actual more sense if the trip wasn't seamless or there were load screens, like in Borderlands 2 where you are in the tundra three horns valley, then go through a gate to end up in a different biome like the Dust because there was a load screen separating it and dialogue explaining that the trip took a few hours.
the fact that you can seamlessly walk the entire game kind of shoots this down in DS2. the fact that apologist fans say it takes you all over the continent makes less sense considering you literally take an elevator from the top of a tower into a volcano castle. the fact that they are in different spots makes the map even less credible because one is on top of the other.
it's the same thing where Heides tower of flame is a lot further in the distance than you actually walk through that tiny cave to get to it and when you complete it you take an elevator down to well below sea level and somehow come out in a cove. Dark Souls IIs map simply doesn't work like 1 and 3's do where you can extract the collision data to create a 3d map of it. Drangleic is clearly just a bunch of unrelated areas copy pasted together with no real sense of cohesion.
>>337015230
it bugs me that you can fight dancer and dragonslayer armor early but you can't actually get inside the archives without killing 3 lords of cinder
and that no matter what path you try to take the first lord of cinder you kill will always be abyss watchers because you can't get to the other two without going through the catacombs
at least dark souls 1 (and 2) let you pick which of the 4 major bosses you wanted to kill first, dark souls 3 just feels like a bunch of dead ends
>>337009876
people only think of the undead burg/parish/lower undead berg connections, but forget the second half of the game after the lord vessel is full of dead ends.
>>337015230
Agreed.
People need to go back and play DAS1 it isnt even 5 years old and there acting if its acient. Even when released the game had clunky mechanics.
DAS3 each level was beatiful and felt good to explore and finding hidden paths were fun. Irthyll valley in order to to get to pontiff you had to go up then down then up. It wasnt a straight b line to boss filled with enemies.
And most parts of the game were similiar.
In my opinion, Demons had the best level design. Going faux open world was a bad call
>>337015605
Irithyll is extremely linear.
>>337015605
So if I find a few parts in DaS where you had to "go up then down then up", would that change your mind? What a horrible argument
>>337015316
The only way you could get lost in Dark Souls 1 was if you ended up in The Catacombs before acquiring the Lordvessel.
>>337011693
Level design != world design.
Now take your (You) and leave.
>>337015367
Enemy placements in dark souls 3 was bullshit you know it. Swarm tacitics.
Btw most people would play Dark Souls 3 Open World eddition fight some end game boss by mistake and then delete the game.
This way the game feels beatable to the people who actually bought the gamen and it doesnt have a filter boss like Bloodborne and Papa G.
Dark Souls 3 is about the game anyone can beat if you try or summon enough.
Even the level design isnt that hard to figure out
>>337015567
Finding out I couldn't open the Grand Archives after suffering through Dancer and Dragonslayer Armour at a low SL was what put me out from doing more playthroughs immediately.
>>337009434
>linear is bad meme
Stop posting anytime
>>337015692
Fucking this. Everything went to shit ever since miyazaki devised his little firelink-parish elevator chute in DaS and impressed everyone with silly shortcuts.
>>337015979
Did you forget that DeS was full of shortcuts too? You opened a shortcut in 1-1, is the game shit now?
>>337015843
Everyone knows that linearity is a good thing a lot of games, but souls games are supposed to be about exploration
>>337015383
>In a game that's about exploration and discovery
That's completely wrong. You think any hardcore fans and people who spent 200+ hours on any of these games were doing exploration and discovery most of the time? No, that's only on your first playthrough.
The reason people play so much is because they like the combat, weapon and character building system, and want to try various things in either PvP or PvE, from using the most OP "one-shot-a-boss" combos, to extreme challenge runs. That+s the real core of the game, not exploring the same level for the 20th time.
>>337015567
The worst of it all is that it's simply unnecessary. From a difficulty point of view I think the knight enemies in Lothric Castle are far harder than the normal enemies in the Grand Archives.
Storywise the order you kill the Lords in doesn't matter at all. There are pretty much no sidequests in this part of the map anyway so this shouldn't matter as well.
Worst of all is the way they did it. If you'd find Gotthard's corpse with the key in Gwynevere's old chamber for example it would still be a needless barrier but at least that would make kind of sense.
But now you just have a corpse magically appearing five meters in front of the door the key he carries unlocks.
>>337010412
How old were you when you grew out of your "anime" phase?
>>337016410
>No, that's only on your first playthrough
So you admit that the games are about exploration. You could apply your shit argument to any game that is supposed to be about exploration. You may as well say "Metroid isn't about exploration or finding secrets because you would already know where everything is on your second run!".
>>337010412
15 year old detected
They're all pretty linear they all have a specific path you need to take. Try going down to new londo to fight the 4 kings first thing guaranteed you cant do it. Any game that requires an item or specific type of weapon to kill any enemy is linear. The most non linear souls game is des simply because you can do it all from the start.
>>337013721
Is that londor that is marked on the pic?Now i remembered that place after seeing this, since i carefully inspected the whole area when i first got there after defeating Vordt.
>>337010412
You never outgrow Souls.
>>337016501
You never outgrow anime.
Both are addictions.
>>337016787
Do you know that level 1 runs are a thing?
>>337013721
top left is another settlement in the distance.
>>337015781
I did do that. I got lost in the Darkroot Garden and in the Basin too
Got lost In blighttown and the depths too
>>337016905
No clue. Don't go anywhere near it and can't see it from Archdragon Peak. Not sure what area or any relevance it has beyond being visible from that point.
>>337010575
MOON ON THE LOOSE
>>337016957
Go down to the four kings from the very start and try it. Its impossible to beat. You'd know why this is if you played the game
>>337016905
>>337016974
Edited for locations
>>337009174
Roll roll attack
>>337017249
If you can consistently avoid damage, it's not impossible
>>337017249
You can't because you need the Covenant of Artorias :^)
>>337017276
Btw now that i've noticed Archdragon Peak is in ruins when you see it from that perspective.Just like how the Lohtric Castle is under-construction when you see it from there?Does that mean we really go back in time to visit Archdragon Peak?
>Wolf Ring in the game boosts poise
>Poise is turned off
>>337017373
You die if you don't have the ring of artorias which rquires you to beat sif which requires you to make it into darkroot garden which if you didnt take the master key requires you to beat tauras demon thats pretty linear.
>>337017610
No. The models are not absolutely accurate in terms of detail and some proportions. Archdragon Peak is still ruined/patched up if you're there. It just does not look like these old greek sites that only have columns left.
>>337017249
is this b8?
>>337017804
>old greek
Byzantine, you mean.
>>337015781
>The only way you could get lost in Dark Souls 1 was if you ended up in The Catacombs before acquiring the Lordvessel.
nah, I got lost plenty after failing to read the description on the depths key (I thought it was the key to something in the parish and forgot about it). cleared entire forest, new londo and catacombs before I got stuck again and started to fight myself through the valley of drakes directly to blight town.
I don't even remember if I visited depths in the first place on my first run.
>>337017645
>if you didnt take the master key requires you to beat tauras demon
Nope. New Londo Ruins -> Valley Of Drakes path available at any time. And closed doors and keys doesn't makes game linear.
>>337017804
I dont think its a coincidence since the bridge in AP is nearly collapsed in the overworld view.Where as in the real model we see it completely in shape other except for a few deformed buildings.It's also weird how we can only see the walls of Lohtric in AP.Archives and the Castle isnt there at all.
>>337017645
what you described is virtually the opposite of linear because you have multiple options at the start of the game, especially if you go with the master key:
1) "normal route" (burg > parish > depths > blighttown > etc)
2) straight to blighttown through valley of drakes with master key
3) straight to parish through valley of drakes with master key
4) catacombs first to get rite of fire (pointless but possible)
5) master key via havel's tower > forest > sif > 4 kings (what you are describing as "linear")
6) like you said, you could also advance to sif "normally", get the ring, and then kill 4 kings before even getting the lordvessel
i could go on like this for a while, as long as you know the steps, you can take on the game in a lot of different sequences. the game is far from linear.
>>337018029
You need the master key for that path dummy.
>JESUS CHRIST LINEARITY IS SO BAD
>WHERE'S MY OPEN WORLD
>PLS I NEED MY WORTHLESS RADIANT QUESTS
>>337018116
Wrong. You can get out through the floodgate.
>>337014472
And I'm pointing out that this minor illusion of choice, though retardedly simple and unimaginative, is apparently enough to entertain fags like you.
As long as it's enough for easily entertained retards like you, the rest of us will keep getting these on-rails adventure games.
Thanks.
>>337018281
Shit forgot about that guess you're right.
>>337013990
I think I legit have brain cancer, I see it before I even know if it's all there or not. It's burned into my brain
>>337018346
You've already explained why the game isn't "on-rails" so I don't have to do anything, thanks
>>337018364
even if that werent true, i dont see why the master key prevents it from being non-linear. if anything that only opens more options.
>>337016501
15.
>>337018364
So did I at first, because I never use it that way once it's open. All it does is make me wish I could just forget all about DS and play it for the first time once more. I already know too much about DS 3 too.
>>337018468
So, the fact that you get TWO doors to choose from, even though they lead exactly to the same room is enough "choice" for you?
Thanks. You're the reason we get all these sub-par games.
>>337018696
you can go back to your faggy TES / panty quest titles if you want little buddy
>>337018696
>So, the fact that you get TWO doors to choose from, even though they lead exactly to the same room is enough "choice" for you?
No? Read this >>337018089 and your own posts
>>337015839
>Souls 3
What? I'm talking about Souls 1.
>>337009174
>use CE
>unlock all bonfires from get-go
>play in whatever order you like
>feels kinda like DkS / DnS
MacGyver some fun out of it, faggets
So we can all agree
World Design: DaS1 > DeS => DaS3 > Slight Hill of Rubble
Level Design: DaS3 > DaS1 > DeS = DaS2
>>337014486
>level has a start point and end point and only one path
Stay salty, soulsfriend.
>>337018923
I don't think that guy knows English too well
>>337019070
World Design: DaS1 > DaS3 > DaS 2 > DeS
Level Design: DaS1 = DaS3 > DeS >>>> DaS 2
>>337010575
>>337009174
>>337011573
>>337012338
i'm going to need a more detailed plan than that, it's confusing
>>337013682
Linearity is always bad you gap tooth cock sucking faggot
>>337019330
Putting the game where the impetus for 60-80% of it is a pile of rocks I could have climbed in kindergarten
>>337018818
lol, ok.
>>337019575
Go on and try to explain why
>>337019330
>>337019649
*Above anything, ever
>>337019649
But it's a magic pile of rocks, you just don't get the lore, idiot
>>337015605
>DAS3 each level was beatiful and felt good to explore and finding hidden paths were fun
Same could be said about any other souls game.
>>337016410
335 hours on pc and 400+ hours on PS3
You are full of shit. Exploration and discovery is the best part of the games, second comes the combat.
wew DS1 is so great you can go everywhere right from the start, like
catacombs up to the piss fog,
or new londo up to the 4k hole
or uh the single path you're actually supposed to take
>>337016728
>So you admit that the games are about exploration.
No, they're about character building and combat.
>You could apply your shit argument to any game that is supposed to be about exploration
No you couldn't. Try playing Nethack.
>>337019815
>Same could be said about any other souls game.
Except for the one with all the one way drops.
>>337012732
They didn't need to because you can port from the beginning of the game.
In dark souls 1 you didn't get the lord vessel until end game.
>>337019815
Isn't it a bit too harsh to pretend as though DaS 2 doesn't exist?
>>337016225
No they fucking aren't. At all.
First half of DaS1 > DaS3 > Second half of DaS1
No idea where 2 fits in, but y'all are giving 3 a lot more shit than it deserves honestly
>>337020292
>No idea where 2 fits in
It stands above the rabble
>>337020210
Although DaS2 does not hold up to the others (without dlc that is), exploring is still the reason why I play it.
>>337017643
>There's Wolf ring +1 and +2
>>337020062
>No, they're about character building and combat.
Prove that. You said before that the games were about exploration on a first run. Why do you think From has designed the game so that we would only get the intended experience after we finished the first playthrough? You're ridiculous
>>337020292
DaS 3 is pretty forgettable desu. At least it wasn't plain shit like 2.
>>337020234
Yes they fucking are. Totally.
>>337015145
That doesn't make it open at all. Games with hubs have very linear levels, and Demon's Souls is no exception.
>>337015843
Linearity is bad for a series which was good specifically because of its non-linear design which made exploration rewarding. What the fuck else would you play the game for? The easy bosses that take up a tiny chunk of play time? The combat which is not only repetitive and simplistic at its core but also absolutely ruined by shitty encounter design?
>>337020580
>you have 5 equally viable paths open to you at the start of the game, but the game is not open at all
Ah, okay
>>337019971
>undead burg
>catacombs
>straight to blighttown via valley of drakes
>burg > forest > sif, or burg > forest > parish
>new londo / 4 kings
>new londo > forest
etc etc
>Goddammit, the developers ACTUALLY expect the players to experience the content?! The player should have the choice TO NOT PLAY THE GAME AT ALL
>>337014708
Christ this has to be fucking bait
>>337020753
I play for PvP desu
>>337017610
Archdragon Peak is a dreamworld/meditation pipe dream you have while doing the way of the dragon gesture. The sun there is normal and not eclipsed/bleeding, just as it is in Firelink. Both exist "outside" Lothric. The actual "present" day shrine is the deserted one that takes you to the Kiln.
>>337020846
DeS is a hub game with linear levels. Sorry, you're just gonna have to stop replying, you will be wrong no matter what.
>>337020485
>You said before that the games were about exploration on a first run.
So is every game ever if you're playing it blindly. That's not an argument about what the game is supposed to be about. A 5 minute long flash game is about exploration, if exploration by your retarded standards means discovering new things in a game.
>Why do you think From has designed the game so that we would only get the intended experience after we finished the first playthrough?
Why would From design linear games with small levels and only a handful of secrets if the games were all about exploration and discovery? Maybe because they actually aren't.
>>337020881
No, the game should've been set in an open field in which enemies are wandering around. That way, we would've actually had some choice on where to go instead being forced down hallways
I play only one playthrough so I really don't give a fuck if it's linear or not
>>337009174
This image is incredibly incorrect
>>337020846
>Pick which of these 5 straight lines you would like to do first
>Open
Uhuh, okay
>>337021081
Explain.
>>337020753
Only one that wasnt linear was demons souls and it had the worst progression in the series. Only part you can sequence break in dark souls 1 is the first areas, the rest is pretty linear.
>>337021030
He was just saying it was open, and it is. Time to log off for today friend
>>337021120
Yes, being able to pick between 5 paths does make a game open
>>337020881
>>undead burg
wow the path you're supposed to take
>>catacombs
wow nothing to do there
>>straight to blighttown via valley of drakes
wow enjoy your locked door
>>burg > forest > sif, or burg > forest > parish
wow you can either go to the forest boss or not
>>new londo / 4 kings
wow no covenant ring, might as well be yellow piss blocking the path
>>new londo > forest
wow irrelevant detour to go where you're supposed to
you guys are dumb as fuck
dark souls 1 first part was linear, then it gave you the choice to go in 4 separate directions
dark souls 2 starts with 4 separate directions, then gives you a linear path
bloodborne was linear as fuck
dark souls 3 have a linear path with some branches where there is either a boss or an item you need later
all games had secret pointless optional zones that look like in-game DLCs
>>337021152
Yes, that's part of the reason why the post-Sen's Fortress areas aren't held in very high regard. Also the early areas still make up a pretty huge chunk of the game. You'd want the sequels to build on that and not fuck up the late game due to time constraints, but instead what you get is really bland linear progression with warping.
DS2 is by default more open because you can warp anywhere right from the start AND have multiple paths THAT ACTUALLY ALL LEAD TO PROGRESS you can take.
>>337009174
It's just like one of my black and white Japanese Dark Horse comics!
>>337021041
>So is every game ever if you're playing it blindly.
So you don't know the difference between progressing down a linear path and actual exploration?
>Why would From design linear games
They didn't
>small levels
Go check the wiki and read their guides on how to find all the loot in each area
>Maybe because they actually aren't.
They incentivise exploration by designing levels with branching paths that have rewards at the end of them. You are rewarded for exploring each area. Is that simple enough for you?
>>337021214
No, it doesn't
You don't get any choice except the order in which you would like to go in a straight line
That's not openness, that's linearity disguised by choice
>>337016225
>if it's linear there can be no sense of exploration
U wot now?
>>337021283
>the game should have no objectives, there should just be a blank, featureless grid that goes into infinite with procedurally generated enemies
how does one become such a faggot
>people taking into account the warps
No shit you could add a line that links all the paths together.
If we're strictly talking about level design, as in going from point A to point B (and in DS2's case, going from A to B, then A to C, then A to D, etc.), OP's pic is pretty accurate.
>>337021134
What does the dead ends mean? Let's take Dark Souls 2 as example? Are those the four souls you have to get to finish the game? They they won't really be dead ends at all.
It should look something like this, since all four paths are required and you need to cross them like a tree fo possibilities
I have never seen so many post that do not understand what the word linear means.
>>337009174
haha I forgot if one person does something that means everyone who likes the same thing also does that thing
>>337021575
You won't be exploring then, you'll be progressing down a set path
>>337014724
>demon's souls is an optical illusion
>>337021619
>Mass effect 3/ Life is strange/telltale games.jpeg
>>337021317
the first half of dark souls wasn't linear, especially if you chose the master key
and the map design basically made it like a big circle where you could easily go between different areas
>>337021529
>that's linearity disguised by choice
Our life is linearity disguised by choice.
>>337021529
Yes, it is
You get to decide except the order in which you would like to play the levels
That's openness, not linearity since you aren't being forced down one path
>>337021619
Dead ends in this case would be areas that do not connect with other areas in the world but instead force you to warp out of them. Dark Souls 3 has a big problem with this for seemingly no good reason. Dark Souls 2 makes a bit more sense because how much you're branching out in the world.
>>337021518
>They incentivise exploration by designing levels with branching paths that have rewards at the end of them.
They have extremely small levels with 2-3 paths at best, that usually loop on each other through shortcuts. There were RPGs from the 80s with way more exploration than that.
>You are rewarded for exploring each area.
90% of "rewards" for your exploration is something like a shitty ring that you'll never use or a soul item that might save you 20 seconds of farming.
>>337020881
DS2 actually blows DS1 completely out of the water in terms of paths you can take by opting to buy the cat ring or pay licia early on
Every early area in DS2 can have completely different difficulty depending on your character build and incentivises a different approach
Going to New Londo is pointless, and the catacombs are a chore with any starting class except cleric or unless you know of the cliff jumps
DS3 gets really boring in terms of replayability because there is one single path you take every time, any deviation and you break almost all NPC quests
Interconnectivity does not prevent linearity, and vice versa. It's a matter of enemies, builds and rewards
>>337016225
>souls games are supposed to be about exploration
Are you dumb as fuck?
what a stupid thread
you can't sum up the "linearity" of a 3D game with 2D lines and dots.
Demon's Souls isn't linear. From the Hub, you have the option to go to 5 different archstones and complete the various segments in any order. The individual segments themselves succeed each other in a linear fashion but each segment is a 3D fucking environment with branching paths (but not all of them). Latria isn't a fucking straight line. But the dragon bridge in Boletaria 1-2 was (but even that had a second layer you could explore).
Dark Souls similarly has options at the start but they ultimately end in dead ends until you get Lord Vessel. Only reason you have to go to Catacombs at the start is Rite of Kindling and then you're bottlenecked till you get LV. No point in going to New Londo until you kill Sif. Master Key will let you skip most of Depths and Blighttown which ironically are some of the two most non-linear areas. After Lord Vessel you have options of going back to those dead ends to go through relatively linear areas. However even the Archives isn't a straight, you have things to explore.
Dark Souls 2 has very linear areas. Heide's Tower is a straight line. Aldia's Keep, the Dragonshrine shit, straight lines. Black gulch, straight line. Shrine of Amana, straight line. etc etc. There's some areas that have depth to them. Mainly the start of the game (Forest of Giants and Bastille) and the DLCs were all very good. There is barely any shortcuts in the game and some of them don't even fucking make sense (the tree you kick down in Huntsman's that serves no fucking purpose).
Dark Souls 3 has a linear structure however the levels themselves are not straight lines. There's branching paths and shit to explore. Cathedral of the Deep is a highlight with lots of layers and meaningful shortcuts. In fact, all the shortcuts in this game are rewarding and save tedium, something DaS2 failed to grasp.
Let this stupid linear meme die.
>>337022030
>Going to New Londo is pointless
You can drain it to either get the ember or get to Darkroot/Blighttown, even without the master key. If you choose to do Sif as your first boss you can even finish the entire area.
>>337009174
DaS1 should be DaS2 flipped around.
>>337022067
>No point in going to New Londo until you kill Sif.
Except for going to New Londo to reach Sif.
>>337020995
>>337017276
then explain this, lorefags
>>337021917
>90% of "rewards" for your exploration is something like a shitty ring that you'll never use or a soul item that might save you 20 seconds of farming.
You find the wolf ring and chloranthy ring by exploring, and you get the zweihander and estoc by exploring all 3 paths at the start of the game. Different things will be useful to different builds, and souls are always useful
>>337021829
>B-But there are 5 straight lines that means it's not linear because that means 1 straight line not 5
If I gave you a room with 5 doors and told you to pick them in numbers 1 to 5 and solve the puzzles inside would that mean your choice of doors was open? No it just gives you a choice of what part of the linear path to do when
>>337021825
Deep man, deep
>>337021815
the master key is a game breaker, you're never meant or explicitly gave the choice of doing quelaag first in your first playthrough
sure there is a lot of shortcuts everywhere, which is enjoyable for the first half without warping, but it's still gargoyles first
>>337022030
i agree with you, unlike the consensus on /v/ i really enjoyed DaS2 despite the glaring flaws like SM. it felt like the "biggest" game by a substantial margin and was the most fun to replay of the series since like you said, you can do a completely different playthrough each time.
the downside to that though is that the areas you choose to do "last" (of the lord souls) are always piss easy since the game felt balanced around letting the player go any direction first.
>>337022043
No, are you a stupid cunt?
>>337022067
you don't go through the majority of new londo, you literally enter it an exit. might as well say you go through new londo to get to blighttown than. not to mention all that shit requires the key
>>337022328
>If I gave you a room with 5 doors and told you to pick them in numbers 1 to 5 and solve the puzzles inside would that mean your choice of doors was open?
Yes. Are you retarded?
>>337022186
>4Kangz with a +5 weapon
Oh the horror
>>337022067
>In fact, all the shortcuts in this game would be rewarding and save tedium if they didn't spam bonfires every 10 feet so you'll never use half of the shortcuts unless you're a total scrub that dies all the time
FTFY
how about we stop sucking off the most poorly designed Souls game?
>>337015567
>but you can't actually get inside the archives without killing 3 lords of cinder
Are you serious? What keeps you from opening it?
>>337022475
How? You still have to go through every door, the order in which you do them is meaningless
>>337022067
There are no meaningful shortcuts in Dark Souls 3, they are used as glorified checkpoints before bosses and nothing else because there is no reason to travel the world in anything but the most straightforward fashion.
>>337011573
What about bloodboner?
>>337022543
but that's DaS2.
also are you telling me you didnt use any of shortcuts in cathedral? or upper lothric? or consumed king's garden? or irithyll? or the dungeon?
>>337022321
>You find the wolf ring and chloranthy ring by exploring, and you get the zweihander and estoc by exploring all 3 paths at the start of the game.
Going in a straight line down a linear path to pick up giant glowing shiny objects is the exact opposite of exploring.
>>337022620
Because you can choose what order to go through them, how are you not getting this?
>>337022680
It's same as DaS3, just way smaller.
Playing Dark Souls 3 made me respect 2 a lot more. I kid you not.
Did some of you also felt this way?
>>337019330
>DaS1
>Level design
>>337022721
>Going in a straight line down a linear path
You have no idea where those items are
>>337022620
>You still have to go through every door
Like taurus demon "door"? In DS1 you can entirely skip some "doors" without losing content of corresponding "rooms".
>>337022653
what the fuck does this mean. the point of a shortcut is to save time and make your current route a better checkpoint. How is it any different from any shortcut das1 had? you saying you didn't open that gate to capra demons from the burg bonfire cause it would have given you a glorified checkpoint? so are you arguing for NO shortcuts? what the fuck are you fags even saying
>>337011298
>all penultimate
do you even know what penultimate means?
>>337022782
Quality post
>>337022775
Yeah, DSII is superior in its location variety, pvp, animations, build variety, and probably some other stuff I'm forgetting.
>>337022620
You can skip 4 bosses and 4 areas completely in Dark Souls 1. As in, most of the first half is entirely skippable or done in almost any order you wish.
>>337022653
theres no point in traversing the world in any of the souls games after going through it once and picking up the items unless youre grinding
i dont even know what people here are arguing anymore
>>337022962
If you honestly believe Dark Souls has the best level design of the series(while also recognizing world design is a different thing), then you don't deserve a serious response.
>>337023151
theres no point in playing any of the souls games or even playing videogames at all
i dont even know what people here are arguing anymore
>>337009174
You people know there's actual maps of the games that literally show you the actual layout so we don't have to look at retarded shit like OP's image that is inaccurate and tells us absolutely nothing
>>337022891
>How is it any different from any shortcut das1 had?
In Dark Souls 1 the shortcuts made travelling the world more convenient. The elevator to Firelink not only makes a convenient shortcut back to your central hub where you do your estus flask upgrading but also unlocks an easy path to Andre and the pardoner at the same time. The aqueduct gate is also double purpose since it lets you trade with the old woman. The shortcut in Sen's Fortress allows you to get back to Andre conveniently too, or up to the guy in the tower. Dark Souls 3's shortcuts could have been replaced with bonfires, because that's their only function.
@337023243
If you honestly don't believe Dark Souls has the best level design of the series(while also recognizing world design is a different thing), then you don't deserve a (you)
>>337023280
Get the fuck outta here and take your common sense with you.
>>337023232
I see a penis, a vagina and then a penis entering a vagina
at least I dont see loss
>>337023072
>location variety
sure but the locations themselves are mostly shitty
>pvp
nope, no red eye orb, barely any invasions, and after a certain point good luck doing bro-op cause SOUL MEMORY, the arenas were nice but das3 pvp hasnt even reached its finalized state cause its still getting patched and theres still DLC to come
>build variety
this is true cause magic is so shit in this game until lategame, hoping patches and dlc change this
remember the stuff youre forgetting
>>337022946
The second to last thing, you know, like how Seath, Nito, Bed of Chaos, and 4 kings are the last set of bosses before Gwyn?
>>337023327
theres literally nothing wrong with having bonfires. you talk about convenience. what's more convenient, taking an elevator through an area youve already gone through everytime you need to upgrade or having a bonfire that saves you all the tedium so you can actually get the tedius shit done fast and play the game more?
>>337022067
Nice post
>>337023348
Dark Souls levels are almost all shit. Just look at Anor Londo if you want the best example of shitty level design.
But what should I expect of DaS babies? I've seen you faggots defending Duke's, so you clearly don't know what you're talking about at all.
>>337020995
DLC area. You can see it in a few of the original screenshots I think.
@337023675
3 posts and it still hasn't explained why the levels are so shit
>>337023810
and he never will because he is a chuckle fuck.
>>337015145
I'm the guy you replied.
The levels in DeS are all linear, there is no way around it. Just because you can chose any of them does not make them non linear.
I clearly now that you need to complete each Archstone for something to happen, doesn't matter what you choose to do first.
I mean I got stuck in fucking blightown because I didn't notice the entrance to Quellag and went up the elevator that leads to the shortcut to firelink. I then proceed to fucking darkroot, then I noticed I was in fucking parish again. I was so frustrated that I went to New Londo because I saw that the gate in VoD lead to New Londo. It got so bad that I killed Sif and then 4K even before I killed Quellag.
Do you even know how much pain and suffering I endured because of that?
>>337023590
That's exactly my point, you could put an extra bonfire and lose very little in terms of function. In Dark Souls 1 the shortcuts felt more organic because they weren't just quick ways to get to the boss but allowed you to get to merchants and new areas more easily. Because of that it didn't feel like the developers were just wasting my time with some formulaic approach to shortcuts but instead presented a more believable, thought out world. All the waiting on elevators in Dark Souls 3 made me reconsider my appreciation for shortcuts in these games.
>>337022813
Typical Fromcuck lack of arguments
>>337023810
You're the one that made the claim that the levels are worth shit, so the burden of proof is on you. All Dark Souls has is muh connections.
>>337014826
the four paths you take to kill the 4 great soul fuckers
the linearity that matters
>DeS
you can go to any of 5 levels and progress linearly from there, after 1-1, then end the game
>DaS
you can go to a variety of optional bosses or two mandatory bosses first, then after the bells progress linearly, then go to any lord area you wish / go into the DLC, or go to the four kings boss early then do everything later, then end the game
>DaSII
you can go to two different paths that each split into optional areas that each lead into the great soul bosses, or you can skip them entirely and get enough souls, or go into the DLCs, then proceed linearly through the castle - dragon aerie, then end the game
>DaSIII
you must go in a single linear path with one branch (crystal sage - deacons), and restrict your progression heavily with questlines or miss out on good loot + gestures, your only choice is to beat yhorm or aldritch first
>BB
you can go to a large variety of optional areas and chalice dungeons, but the mandatory bosses are a straight, short, linear path
>>337023473
good point, I guess my index, middle and ring fingers are the penultimate fingers before my pinky
>>337023894
Try and explain how getting finding an illusionary wall inside a tree which is located in a wide open swamp, then jumping down from a ledge onto a hidden platform is "Going in a straight line down a linear path to pick up giant glowing shiny objects"
3 is more linear than both of them, I don't understand
What are the odds the DLC could create different paths through the game?
>>337022746
Are you serious? Bloodborne is a much bigger game than DS3. I finished all the bosses in DS3 in a little under 20 hours, Bloodborne took me a lot longer than that
>>337024194
Virtually none. It's most likely going to be teleporting timey wimey bullshit like the rest of the series, especially since it's most likely endgame content.
>>337023889
Whatever dude, I still don't get what you want. You're saying waiting in one elevator is better than waiting in another cause it "Feels more organic"? In DaS that's literally only the cause pre-lord vessel and then the lord vessel actually lets you WARP to that bonfire before andre because they know HEY YOUVE GONE THROUGH THIS AREA ALREADY HERE JUST WARP HERE. You're criticizing the formulaic approach to shortcuts that DaS1 rewarded you with. And all the shortcuts in Cathedral felt organic, it felt natural how it looped around, are you saying they didn't make traversing that area more convenient?
>>337023937
Areas frequently loop back on themselves in a way that makes sense to open up shortcuts, bonfires are placed far apart enough so that the player will have to conserve estus charges, enemies are placed so that encounters feel unique and need to be approached differently, there's a good use of verticality to hide secrets and other paths, secrets reward exploration
>>337009174
Not about fans; about niche vs. mainstream entertainment. Just keep hating the cobblestone for being bland.
>>337019719
They can't, because they don't have an argument.
DaS3 is way better than 2 but it's the fucking manchild mentality of THE PAST IS ALWAYS BETTER!
>>337019108
>>337009174
Even if that was true, this game allows you to approach each "line" with differing play-styles and equipment. Tired of this shit? Summon a friend. Want to piss around? Try only ranged.
The linear meme is only effective with games like FF13 that pretty much play themselves, changing your equipment in that game only makes you stronger; but doesn't actually change the battle mechanics.
>>337024559
>DaS3 is way better than 2 but it's the fucking manchild mentality of THE PAST IS ALWAYS BETTER!
fuckin lol
>>337022720
>also are you telling me you didnt use any of shortcuts in cathedral?
There's only one useful one, before the first giant. If Deacons weren't the easiest boss in the game, than there might be a reason to use others. The only other shortcut worth opening is if you need to get to top to get to Rosaria.
>consumed king's garden?
Only useful if you 're going to fight Oceiros very early when he can still one-shot you with a charge in his phase 2. If you fight him when it's intended, he's one of the easiest bosses in the game and I don't see why you would need a shortcut to him, the only way to die is to stand in his crystal shit for 10 seconds.
>dungeon
1 useful shortcut that goes through that Archdragon Peak zone and lets you get to the bottom of the dungeon the fastest way
>irithyll
again 1 useful shortcut, that gate between Yorshka church and Pontiff. That elevator shortcut is the perfect example of useless shit.
>>337023396
I am replaying DS2 literally right now.
I am having much more fun replaying the game game than DS3.
>sure but the locations themselves are mostly shitty
subjective
>no red eye orb
True, but you have the arena to hone your skills, that way you almost always stomp shitters when invading
>Soul-Memory
Just buy the goddamn ring you shitter.
>this is true cause magic is so shit
That is not the only reason. Straightswords and thursting swords are broken, greatshields also are strong as fuck
>remember the stuff youre forgetting
Yeah I can remember some stuff alright, but from 3:
>no bonfire ascetics
>no arenas
>mosts sets mix terribly with eachother
>shitty fist weapons
>shitty NPCs(a literal clone of Siegmeyer, really?)
>easy to break and convoluted questlines
>easy as fuck except for NK, Pontiff, Champ
>metric fuckton of bonfires, even more than in 2
>go nowhere with the lore or story, it's just another cycle
I can probably go on for a bit.
I've seen so many Souls game discussions that literally play out the parable about the blind men and the elephant.
>>337019971
because the game doesn't very cleary tell you YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO GO THERE YET by putting extremely hard enemies in your way, right? There's a very clear, rather linear path through the game, and yeah, you can deviate from that, but in the end you're just being an autist making things harder for yourself
>>337024709
Is this a hentai? If so source.
>>337024709
Huh, interesting
It fucking sucks that DA3 didn't take the good aspects of 2 such as changing up NG+
>>337024330
I'm saying that it feels more organic because you use shortcuts several times for different purposes, rather than just using them to get to the boss quicker. It also helps that the game does not have a shortcut in every level, and sometimes has a bonfire right next to a boss so it doesn't get samey. Dark Souls 3 always gives you shortcuts at about the same point in a level, it always uses them just to get to a boss quicker and you are never encouraged to ever use them again once you beat the level. Do you understand why I think it's formulaic as hell?
>>337024662
>Pontiff, Champ
2 easiest bosses in the game if you learn to parry
I'd rather fight Pontiff and be done with it in 10-20 seconds than even fight Deacons or Sage and get annoyed by getting staggered occasionally by their spells.
>>337024659
>The only other shortcut worth opening is if you need to get to top to get to Rosaria.
you can get to the boss substantially faster by going from her bonfire > using the big gate/bridge as a lift down to the first floor.
granted, like you said, if you first-try the deacons this doesnt matter at all, but of course if you first-try every boss, then literally no shortcuts are worth it and this discussion is moot
>>337013682
Not always but for games like Souls it is absolutely fucking terrible.
>>337024643
>copy out what they say and make it clear you disagree
More quality content from /v/
>>337024659
>>337024861
okay i get what youre saying but what im saying is das1 is still very much in the same boat. it has about the same number of useful shortcuts and the whole different purpose thing you mentioned is really negligible because no one ever needs to fucking go to oswald and like i said everyone just warps to andre anyway and most of the endgame upgrade materials are post lord vessel. i think you might subjectively have fonder memories of shortcuts being some amazing thing das1 but its literally been the same since demon's souls and the only game where it was awful or irrelvant is DaS2.
>>337009434
By the looks of the OP image, all three games are linear. The only difference is how labyrinthine the maps are to get to the single exit.
3 is linear as fuck, too.
>Have to use a generic raw weapon until end game because all of the good shit is in the fucking final area
>>337023072
>animations
Fuck off, that mocapped shit looks fucking awful. The entire game looks like plastic, I was so shocked when I watched a das2 video it looks like ass, and not das/des ass.
>>337021317
>dark souls 1 first part was linear
I was farming black knight weapons before even fighting taurus because it WASNT linear. I was at the woods and catacombs before progressing through the burg.
>>337009174
OP you're giving ds2 too much credit
>>337024709
It's like this except 2 blind men will agree that it's a 'snake' because they found the 2 trunks thus reaching a rare case of agreement. And then a third guy will profit off it by repeating what they said and everyone gets mad at him.
>>337025378
DaS2 objectively gives the player the most options at the start of the game
keep on parroting the /v/ consensus like an underage faggot though
>>337024412
>Areas frequently loop back on themselves in a way that makes sense to open up shortcuts
There are lots of areas in all Souls games that do this. Demon's Souls makes much better use of its shortcuts since all of the areas are consistent thematically and make some degree of logical sense.
>bonfires are placed far apart enough so that the player will have to conserve estus charges
Estus was a good change for the series, agreed on this even though it's not directly related to level design.
>enemies are placed so that encounters feel unique and need to be approached differently
Again, literally all Souls games. Even Bloodborne does this, and it has the weakest variety, at least in the base game.
>there's a good use of verticality to hide secrets and other paths, secrets reward exploration
It does verticality slightly better than other games, but it's not as if the levels weave into each other. Most of them are still largely separate from each other, with a single connection at the very end for convenience.
>>337024050
They're the last objective before the final boss and can be done in any order, so I don't see the issue
>>337025197
>anon talks about quality content
>when his opinion was little more than a shitpost whining about fucking oldfags
I swear you guys just don't like anything at all do you?
>>337025676
Wasn't even my post
>>337025515
Good joke.
You have access to way less equipment and fewer bosses than in DS1.
>>337025515
>objectively
>consensus
>consensus
>parroting
You have become the thing you hate. Reddit is that way.
>>337025209
I'm talking about the first playthrough here. The shorcut from Firelink to Andre will be used to upgrade your weapons in between levels until you get the lordvessel. It will also be used for you to get to Sen's Fortress after ringing the second bell. It will also be used if you want to explore the Sif area before Anal Rondo. Most of these will happen for most players, even on subsequent playthroughs. Then there's the less common shit like going to Oswald if you managed to attack an NPC for some reason, or going to the old woman if you manage to get cursed. Sure they depend entirely on the player's incompetence but they're still there. Hell, a friend of mine took the elevator back to Firelink from Blighttown because he was having trouble with Quelaag so he could upgrade his weapons and try again. There is not a single shortcut in Dark Souls 3 that even comes close to any of this, even if you assume the player sucks ass and is doing everything wrong, they will still only use the shortcuts as quick trips to the boss fog.
>>337015230
I'd say major culprit guilty of making people think like that is Froms stupidest idea of allowing fast travel from the get go. DaS1 had good interconnectivity in early areas and you had to constantly plan your way, literally burning said interconnectivity into your brain DaS3 just doesn't allow you to even enjoy shortcut you've opened because there's a bonfire 5 meters from it anyway, thus cheapening it's own shirtcuts and interconnections.
The really, really, really shouldn't have done it.
>>337009174
I thought one of the major complaints about DAS2 was that the paths don't lay out properly in a geographical sense. So they were trying to do a non-linear thing but if you are spatially aware of where you are in relation to other paths (like "these areas should be overlapping") it pulls you out of the immersion
![99d5ec6e3ba3af8dd2068b8d1f56e040[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/idViBfO.jpg "99d5ec6e3ba3af8dd2068b8d1f56e040[1]")
>>337014523
>Demon's Souls
>>337010412
>I havent finished the first
I rang the first bell yesterayIs it wrong to use solarie help for the gargolies?
>>337015545
honestly the interconnected game world stuff have never really made sense to me, it just involves forcing a bunch of shit into being underground. like in DaS1, how the fuck is all that shit in darkroot underground? same with blighttown and the new londo ruins. did the land just magically form over top of these areas or did people build cities in fucking caves?
>>337024662
Tell me some DaS2 areas that are subjectively better designed than anything in any of the other souls games besides the DLCs.
>hone your skills to stomp shitters when invading
>just equip the ring
yea what an elegant solution, just equip a ring that stops the souls you get, forget it if your build needs items to restock up on! fuck you! just manually keep track of this arbitrary thing that doesnt fucking need to be there and that we got rid of cause it killed invasions
>ss and thrusting swords are broken, gs strong as fuck
did you never play das2 vanilla, there was plenty of broken shit, here ill even give you sauce
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5_tdfxYcQU
not to mention you can easily counter all that besides the greatshield with parrying
bonfire ascetics are missed ill give you that
no need for arenas when you have functioning invasions and duel summons for fight clubs cause theres no SHITTY SOUL MEMORY TO LIMIT PEOPLE
>sets mix terribly
subjective
fist weapons need to be better ill give you that
>shitty npcs
agreed, but they have been rehashing the same npcs from fucking demon's souls, dark souls 2 had the least memorable cast outside of the talking cat and FEEBLE CURSED ONE
>convoluted questlines
literally all the games, what questline did das2 even have, summon x for boss y wow amazing
>easy as fuck
theres literally not a single hard boss in das2 unless you didn't invest in ADP, or the DLC co op area bosses that gank you, fume knight is literally casual filter
>metric fuckton of bonfires
and yet still had shortcuts that made sense, and the game wasnt a tedious slog to get through
>go nowhere with the story
wow you mean like literally all 3 games, how about the DLCs in 2 that had new stories right
keep going
>>337025539
How are DaS shortcuts thematically inconsistent or illogical? It's more impressive in DaS because the shortcuts will sometimes cut through other areas, DeS' are all contained in 1 area
The bonfires are the right distance between each other in DaS, 3 gave way too many charges for free with the new system and I never felt myself in danger of running out
>Again, literally all Souls games
I don't want to get into specific examples, but DaS struck the right balance for me, where encounters were challenging but not worth cheesing
Did you have an actual argument as to why DaS' level design is bad?
>>337025817
most of that stuff was kept in once place in the hub area in das3 so theres no need, this is also how it was in demons. i understand if you SUBJECTIVELY prefer to not have a hub area but theres nothing that objectively makes that worse
>>337021641
You're on /v/ so yes that is accurate.
People will like or dislike something and then notice the shitposters are now swinging with the opposite opinion, so suddenly they will behave like the new contrarian opinion shitposters are using has always been what they thought as well.
>>337026348
>the game wasnt a tedious slog to get through
Bullshit, how the hell can you fight the hundreds of trash enemies without feeling bored? Shit's literally just double press R1 and move on to the next target, don't even have to bother rolling or shielding or anything most of the time.
>>337026585
literally no one fights mobs in any of the games after the first playthrough and proceed to just run through most areas and only kill things they need drops from or that are essential
are you someone who slowly kills every mob in each area everytime you die or in every playthrough or something and then complain about how its tedious?
>>337025719
That's completely wrong. Even if it was right, areas were much more balanced towards early exploration than DS1. It was expected for you to go through the Gutter or Shaded Woods relatively early if you so chose, this isn't the case for New Londo. The Catacombs are even worse, because Pinwheel was balanced for early players but only lead to a dead end that you had to crawl out of if you didn't get the Lordvessel first.
>>337021802
Do your choices in Life is Strange actually have any effect on the final ending? Or does it always come down to "save your waifu or nuke the commonwealth"?
>>337026759
It was tedious the first time, that's the problem. Also this argument is pretty shit 2bh because it's basically saying that to enjoy the game I have to actively ignore playing it.
>>337021875
>Dark Souls 3 has a big problem with this for seemingly no good reason.
big surprise, turns out a lot of players just fast travel everywhere so the connecting paths would just be extra effort
>>337026925
You could still have the connections without fast travel. For example if you remove a bonfire after Deacons and add a path that leads back down to Farron Keep or the swamp, players would likely just keep going down the path rather than backtracking and teleporting out. Connecting Smouldering Lake with Profaned Capital/Irithyll Dungeon seems like it would be doable too because they are pretty close by, and doing so would make the Deacons a truly optional boss fight.
>>337026438
>3 gave way too many charges for free with the new system and I never felt myself in danger of running out
I think that was in part to combat the whole humanity bullshit and kindling fires so you generally end up with more flasks more often.
It also helped curb humanity chomping by making Ember a single use heal if not embered.
>>337026851
What the fuck are you saying
Fighting mobs is boring to you the first time even though the mobs are like they have been in every game, someone says to run past and you say it's bad that you have to ignore the game. Why do you even play then do you even like these games?
Most people get replay value from the pvp and Co op but the mobs are usually something only impactful on the first playthrough and if you find it tedious why even play this series cause that's the combat
>>337027108
i think what you guys don't get is that none of these games are supposed to be competing with each other for anything. they could've done that shit but they decided not to. it doesn't make the game worse or better or anything. it's just what they did. a design choice in a game is capable of being a neutral decision.
Maps are without DLC for fairness.
>>337025719
you are a bonafide retard.
you have full access to any of the 4 lord soul areas from the beginning of DaS2 along with all equipment, items + merchants therein.
my first playthrough of DaS2 i remember feeling very strapped for equipment at first as well, but like all souls games, once you know the lay of the land you can easily access whatever you need relatively quickly, and DaS2 offers the easiest early access to a wide variety of equipment/areas/merchants/etc of all the titles.
>>337025808
>hurr durr muh 4chan vs reddit website wars XD
yes, i get it, you're a teenager, no need to rub it in everyone's face
>>337027416
Jesus DS3 looks so much more linear than DS2
>>337026348
>Tell me some DaS2 areas that are subjectively better designed than anything in any of the other souls games besides the DLCs.
Lost Bastille, FotFG, Aerie, Drangleic Castle, Amana(after the changes), Door of Pharros, Wharf
>yea what an elegant solution
It still solves almost every problem. You can still farm consumables, just so you know.
>did you never play das2 vanilla
Yes I did, since release day. Even though some shit was broken like Santier's and Havelyn, still, most other options were viable, and didn't feel outright useless.
Also there are tons of sleeper OP weapons in the game like Dark infused Roaring Halberd and Lightning infused Defender's Greatsword.
>no need for arenas when you have functioning invasions
You mean the constant 3v1 ganksquads?
>theres literally not a single hard boss in das2
I'll give you that, it's pretty easy now. After playing through all the games.
>and yet still had shortcuts that made sense
This is not about shortcuts.
>how about the DLCs in 2 that had new stories right
You mean how DS2 actually set up the story so the third game would be able to complete the trilogy? Alas, it got completely ignored.
>keep going
>fast roll under 70%
>poise literally turned off
>aforementioned gank squads
>broken covenants(two area based ones at that), dorkmoons don't see any action
>invincible during entering fog/operating levers/opening doors etc. AGAIN
>no powerstancing, why?
Why do you keep saying "no DLC"? That is no excuse. You'd think they learned after DS2 not to repeat the same mistakes.
>>337022292
Just an illusion
>>337027292
They have not been like that in every game. Even Dark Souls 2 doesn't come close to the constant flood of trash mobs that DS3 devolves into by Undead Settlement. Not to mention in Dark Souls 2 a lot of the trash mobs had more poise so it involved more dodging instead of just mashing R1 like a retard which defines most of Dark Souls 3's combat.
>>337027534
It is, but people love to deny it. It's Miyazaki after all, even though Miyazaki was only in charge of game layout and combat in DS3.
>>337027205
Yeah kindling was broken in the first game, it should've given you one more flask per humanity burned, not 5 or 15. If they let you have max 10 charges for your estus I think it would've been fine, but 15 is way too much.
>>337026776
>the game should be balanced for unskilled green players
That's not a very good argument.
>That's completely wrong.
Please explain how.
DS1 bosses available from the start: Taurus, Capra, Gargoyles, Butterfly, Sif, Quelaag, Pinwheel, Stray Demon
DS2: Giant, Pursuer, Ornstein, that fat knight next to Ornstein, that lump of shit in the well - almost half of DS1's
Equipment would be even more in favor of DS1, especially if you include enemy drops and not just static loot. For a long ass time the best weapon you can find is the basic ass fire longsword from the very beginning. That's how limited and poorly spread everything is for replays. With DS1 you have a wide variety of stuff.
>be me
>open /v/
>want music to go with my shitposting
>doubleclick "Creedence Clearwater Revival - Fortunate Son.mp3"
>it ain't me starts playing
>>337027558
>It still solves almost every problem.
Adding a solution to a problem you created is not fixing the problem. That's a fucking band-aid.
>Dark Souls lets you start the game any way you want, lel
It railroads you into Undead Burg. Go any other direction and you'll be forced to turn around eventually.
The only possible detour you can possibly take at the beginning is master keying your way into Blighttown and fighting Quelaag early, which itself is barely feasible.
Besides, the games have bigger problems than being too "linear", like balance
>>337027865
>It railroads you into Undead Burg. Go any other direction and you'll be forced to turn around eventually.
>what is Blighttown
>>337022475
Well if you open the path out to Drake Valley you can walk to Blighttown to get green shards and then go to Catacombs for a +5 fire weapon, that's not even counting if a build uses the Gravelord Sword or a shiny tittanite weapon.
>>337027931
>what is reading my post
>>337009174
This is the difference, in the first one you couldn't teleport from the start so the devs had to put a lot of shortcuts
>>337027865
Well previous DS games you could do most of any bosses in any order.
With DS2 that was kind of reduced, you had to kill 4 specific bosses first before gaining access to the latter half of the game
With DS3 that got limited again, you have to kill 3 bosses, it would be 4 if you didn't have to kill a certain boss before gaining access to that 4th.
>>337026438
>How are DaS shortcuts thematically inconsistent or illogical?
They don't make sense within the context of the universe. There's a giant gate to New Londo used to drain the city and an elevator in Darkroot Basin that leads nowhere of interest. They only work as a shortcut and nothing else.
>It's more impressive in DaS because the shortcuts will sometimes cut through other areas, DeS' are all contained in 1 area
Many of them feel arbitrary, and most of them don't weave into each other, there's just a sloppy transition from one area to the next.
>Did you have an actual argument as to why DaS' level design is bad?
A lot of them are either dull, or illogical without really having anything interesting to show for the lack of sense. Just compare Boletaria to Anor Londo; Boletaria makes sense as a fortress due to its design, but Anor Londo is illogical either as a fortress or a palace. Every character has to move through the rafters in order to progress. That's not particularly fun in of itself, but it doesn't make sense in any way either. I'm more lenient towards the fantasy-leaning areas like Blighttown, but there's no reason the castle area should be as silly as it is.
>>337027865
Nope, you can go to New Londo, drain the water, get to Valley of Drakes, then Darkroot, then get to Andre and the gargoyles. Also how's doing Quelaag early "barely feasible"? I do that every other playthrough.
>>337027949
Ah, ok
>>337028006
>railroading
Your post sucks Anon. The game doesn't railroad you. It offers you several paths of varying difficulties.
>>337027434
You don't know what bona fide means. It's not even one word, kid.
You only have full access to the well and that is if you get the ring which will involves tedious grinding or going to beat some other bosses, completely invalidating your argument.
also see >>337027710 dumbass
>>337028089
You can very clearly see a giant gate that's caved in next to the New Londo gate. It drains the city on accident, the gate was clearly the main entrance to the city before. The elevator doesn't have as clear of a purpose but considering it's right next to the main gate it's not hard to imagine what it could be used for.
>>337028089
>There's a giant gate to New Londo used to drain the city and an elevator in Darkroot Basin that leads nowhere of interest.
If you consider the world in a not dead state that's a reasonable access path from the Burg to New Londo. That gate wasn't just made to hold in a bunch of water, it's an actual functioning access gate.
>>337022746
retard
>>337026307
you're going to have a hell of a time with future bosses if you felt like you had to, gargoyles are actually quite easy.I was the same way at first
>>337027558
Aerie is a straight line, dangleic castle looks pretty on the outside and then has no substance inside, and wowdid you seriously list door of pharos as a memorable area? The one that lasts 2 minutes and is another straight line or a covenant that no one gets activity for cause it takes 2 mins to walk through and soul memory
And I still can't belive you das2 faggots are defending soul memory
>3v1 hanks
are you one of those people that gets salty when they lose? I enjoy doing everything I can to try to win those and it's possible. Most invasions where you're outnumbered aren't ganker but new players that are just Co oping with friends. You'd know if you ever invaded for more than an hour but I'm guessing you got "ganked" and gave up
>complaining about being able to equip more and still roll
>liking getting stabbed in the back by mobs when running past them to open doors
This is literally only an issue during invasions and the host runs away even them who cares you literally scared them away
>complaining about gank squads again Jesus shutter
No power stance but we got weapon arts
Dlc is a game changer in these games. Das1 perfected it's lore and completely changed Meta with hexes. Das2 level designers redeemed themselves with their crown dlcs. And bb Dlc have us the best bosses in the entire series.
But look I understand if you subjectively like das2 for whatever gay reasons, the fact that you enjoy it is not a bad thing. But it's objectively the worse designed game in the series and every poll that ranks the series even now you will always be in the minority
So here's the averaged connectivity of areas in Dark Souls games. I've calculated the total number of connections between areas divided by the number of areas.
Dark Souls 1: 2.24 connections average
Dark Souls 2: 1.94 connections average
Dark Souls 3: 1.84 connections average
Both DS2 and DS3 suffer from linearity and especially DS2 suffered from too many dead ends, thanks to warping being available from the start.
>>337028949
>cause it takes 2 mins to walk through and soul memory
>I only played the game two years after launch and missed the fun
Doors of Pharros was amazing in the first weeks after launch. It was even more amazing when the PC version came out and we could take our console knowledge to PC to get more people fucked over.
>>337029125
>he bought fucking DS2
>twice
>at launch
I'm so sorry.
>>337027710
>That's not a very good argument.
I wasn't arguing whether they should've been designed for early players, I was arguing that they were. And it's true. Most bosses in DS2 that can be beat from the get go have to be defeated in order to progress to the 4 Lord Souls. That means the areas are designed around being accessed somewhat early. Compare this to Dark Souls where the Catacombs leads to a dead end and the 4 Kings are a Lord Soul boss and are a DPS race.
>For a long ass time the best weapon you can find is the basic ass fire longsword from the very beginning. That's how limited and poorly spread everything is for replays
Opinion disregarded. Virtually anything from Lenigrast is better than that shitty long sword. The Estoc, Mace, Rapier, and even Battle Axe are vastly superior.
You also forgot Najka, the Rat King, and the Twin Dragonriders if you want to go full autism.
>>337029301
Why? I had a ton of fun. Soul memory wasn't an issue with so many people playing. I'm sorry you can't enjoy games anymore Anon.
>>337029125
Nope I played it at launch too and fought ratdog a billion times with ascetic to fuck people but it doesn't excuse that it's a shit area
>>337027696
>even though Miyazaki was only in charge of game layout and combat in DS3
Nice asspull.
>>337029395
>all those traps
>lying in wait for people
>pretend to be a friendly phantom to morons who got summoned for the first time in their life
I had a blast, but I guess if it's not your type of thing then that's fine.
>>337013026
>needing a wiki to find your way around Lordran
I've never played a game with so many branching paths and loops that DOESN'T need a map. The exploration and area connections are very intuitive, you always have a rough idea of where you are in relation to the surrounding areas.
Unless you mean to say that you literally need to be told exactly where to go to enjoy a game.
>>337028998
This is such an unbelievably retarded and autistic way to gauge linearity and I can't even be bothered explaining why.
>>337029534
>I didn't read the interviews
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/dark-souls-3-interview-this-is-a-turning-point-for/1100-6429569/
>This is the same for Dark Souls 3. Actually, [Yui] Tanimura-san, the director of Dark Souls 2, has already joined the [Dark Souls 3] team, which will allow me to work on core gameplay design while other things are taken care of.
>core gameplay
He did combat and maybe a bit more. Deal with it.
>>337029570
You're still missing the point it was fun at launch but then it stops working cause soul memory you faggot
>>337029608
>I have no argument so I'll call it retarded
Alright kid.
>>337028949
> wowdid you seriously list door of pharos as a memorable area
You asked for an area better designed than any other area in any other Souls game. I'd like to remind you you have such areas in the like:
>izalith/demon ruins
>crystal cave
>smouldering lake
>consumed king's garden
>And I still can't belive you das2 faggots are defending soul memory
I am not defending it, it's irredeemable. I am just calling you out on your BS
>are you one of those people that gets salty when they lose?
Nice projection there buddy. Everything you claimed about me is false.
>complaining about being able to equip more and still roll
It makes equipement management virtually useless
>liking getting stabbed in the back by mobs when running past them to open doors
>Being so stupid you can't lure the enemies from the fog, and the sprint past them.
>No power stance but we got weapon arts
Shittiest excuse ever, there is absolutely no reason why both of them couldn't be in the game.
>But look I understand if you subjectively like das2 for whatever gay reasons
>'I can't handle people not sucking Miyazaki's cock'
>>337029753
>soul memory
Did you miss Scholar of the First Sin?
>>337029690
So he's responsible for the worst element of Dark Souls 3? Good going, Memezaki.
>>337029690
World level/design are part of core gameplay you imbecil.
http://www.vg247.com/2016/03/02/dark-souls-3-miyazaki-bloodborne-interview/
>“All of Dark Souls 3’s design is basically based on my own personal preference,” he declares when I ask him about the difference between Dark Souls 3 and the previous two titles in the series.
Fuck off.
>>337029690
>even honoring Miyahaki dicksuckers with a response
>>337022746
Bloodborne has a lot of looping and connection of multiple areas like DaS1, it's just smaller than Das1.
>>337030037
>I can't read reply chains
Here's my original post:
> even though Miyazaki was only in charge of game layout and combat in DS3.
>>337022775
I miss Power Stance so much, I'd trade weapon arts for it in a heartbeat.
>>337029854
>there is absolutely no reason why both of them couldn't be in the game.
Actually there is. They're in opposition for control space. You can powerstance or you can 2H your off-hand. With the addition of WA being able to 2H your off-hand is more valuable than powerstance and it's unwieldy to add an extra option for 1H/2H/PS/2H-OH with the current control scheme.
>>337030168
>even though Miyazaki was only in charge of game layout and combat in DS3.
>“All of Dark Souls 3’s design is basically based on my own personal preference,”
You should work on your reading comprehension.
>>337029854
None of the areas in das2 will match everything achieved in tower of late is
Clearly salty from das3 pvp experience if you were complaining about straightswords and rapier, deny all you want
Equipment management, nice
Power stance is missed but considering dual weapons and weapon arts it's not a huge miss
Miyazaki has literally nothing to do with das2 being shitty
>>337030531
>late is
Latria auto-correct?
>>337030037
>“So, in terms of the world design, and other elements, my preference is to return to something structurally a little more like the first game, and Bloodborne, with the world a little more connected.”
>more like the first game
>more connected
Jesus what a liar.
>>337030531
Nice counterarguments.
You completely ingored everything in my post.
Also:
>durability of items as big as in DS1
>still resets after sitting at the bonfire
Great game design. Might as well get rid of the stat entirely.
>>337030438
Dark Souls 2 had that and there were no issues with switching between two handing your second weapon there
>>337013192
Oh god we definitely, absolutely need MORE people on /v/ being overly critical of fucking everything, how did I not realize this sooner?!
>>337030531
>Miyazaki has literally nothing to do with das2 being shitty
>give project away to imbecile Shibuya
>watch Shibuya ruin the series
>replace said imbecile with Tanimura and give him half the devtime to remake the entire game
>don't delay
>release that shit
>still put his name on the game as a Producer
Nah, he fucked up.
how come yall niggas keep trying to find reasons to hate good games
ds2, wasn't that great but 3 is good.
>>337030037
>that whole bullshit about the "Miyazaki touch"
Fuck me
>>337030875
>bullshit
But the game is great.
>>337030814
You couldn't PS & 2H your OH, it was one or the other.
WA make being able to 2H your OH at all times that much more valuable.
If they could find some extra real estate on the controls to fit the extra PS, then sure. But with WA in the game, it's the less valuable option.
>>337030789
I replied to the things worth replying to
Durability has been meaningless since das2
Das2 is the worst in the series, deal with it
>Games with hubs have very linear levels
You do realise Firelink is still a 'hub' area in DaS1 right? It's the central area from which all other possible paths branch from, exactly like the Nexus.
In DeS you have these possible paths right from the start with the Nexus being the central hub to all of these: 1-1, 2-1, 3-1, 4-1 and 5-1. You can tackle them in any order.
In DaS1 you have these possible paths right from the start (if you pick master key), with Firelink being the central hub to all of these.
>Undead Burg
>Catacombs
>New Londo
>Valley of the Drakes
>Blight Town
So both games have 5 possible directions that you can go in right from the start. They're as 'linear' as each other, just because DaS1's hub is physically connected to these 5 routes doesn't make DeS any more linear, since it still also has 5 possible routes that you could tackle in any direction.
>>337029384
My standards not being piss poor doesn't mean I don't enjoy things. I enjoyed Demon's, 1, 3 and Bloodborne just fine.
>>337031190
>You can tackle them in any order.
After 1-1 you could but not before.
>>337031128
Not true considering powerstancing would have its own WA. Could just change it from holding down the button to double tapping it quickly.
>>337031134
>I replied to the things worth replying to
You mean "things I can't reply to"
>Durability has been meaningless since das2
Confirmed for not knowing shit about the game
>Das2 is the worst in the series, deal with it
Not with Bed of Chaos in the competition.
Keep on trying.
>>337030652
The game is literally all connected except for the hub you dumbass.
>>337031276
Ahh shit I forgot about that, substitute 1-1 for 1-2.
>>337031357
Thanks for talking to me all this time, barely see any das2 apologists now a days gonna have a lot to laugh about with my friends, good luck
>>337031357
>Das2 is the worst in the series, deal with it
>Not with Bed of Chaos in the competition.
Disregard that. Read that wrong.
>>337031283
>Not true considering powerstancing would have its own WA.
That would be an additional WA, like I said IF they found a way around the limited real estate it'd be great but losing access to a WA isn't worth it.
Paired weapons were a nice middle ground and allowed more uniqe WAs with them. PS WA would have to be pretty generic or dependant on the dominant weapon otherwise.
As for the double tapping, it's just not all that feasible in this game. It's slow to respond and often ignores rapid inputs. I'm not saying it couldn't have been done, it's just a shit game for that implementation.
>>337029338
>And it's true
And it's still completely irrelevant. It makes the game worse in general but it doesn't mean anything in terms of accessibility. That's why your argument is not very good.
What the fuck is a Lenigrast?
>Estoc, Mace, Rapier, and even Battle Axe
Yeah, the most basic ass fucking weapons is all you have. And I still think you're wrong since I'm almost 100% certain I couldn't get the estoc when I started out in DS2. It was only available after making progress. Whereas in DS1 you can find unique loot even early in the game. And how do you access Najka or these Twin Dragonriders without killing bosses?
>>337031891
>Najka
I'm pretty sure all you need is one of the branch things that undo petrification to reach her
>or these Twin Dragonriders
I think you can go straight to drangleic castle if you have a fuck ton of souls
>>337009174
>WASAAH DARK SOULS 3 IS TOO LINEAR
Alrich, Yhorm, and Dancer can be fought in any order
>>337027696
>>337027534
It is, until you realize that places like the blue cathedral, undead purgatory, belfry sol / luna, and rat authority boss fight are considered their own full areas in that DaS II picture and the DaS III picture doesn't even show something as massive as the Demon Ruins. If you get rid of the fake one-room areas from the DaS II picture, you've got 7 separate dead-end straight lines with one interconnection in the whole thing.
>>337031803
>laugh about with my friends
With that attitude, I doubt you have any.
Thanks for proving me right btw.
>>337029608
This is such an unbelievably retarded and autistic way to try to refute a point, and I can't even be bothered explaining why.
>>337031891
Lenigrast does sell Estoc ever since you open his smithy.
>>337022348
Except you CAN do quelaag first in your first playthrough, just with the addition of taurus demon.
Burg > parish > forest > valley > blighttown > quelaag.
>>337031373
>weak bait
A straight line is a connection, but it's nothing like DS1 like he claims.
>>337032591
Or just run to New Londo, kill the faggot for his key and drain it.
>>337027416
This shows the linearity the best. Admittedly it doesn't get down and gritty with showing us the individual level design where DS3 end up probably the least linear, but from level to level is the most strait forward.
>>337009174
Dark Souls 2 looks like the worst of the 3.
>>337032695
>straight line
>I'm the one baiting
>>337032302
So along with that lump of garbage and the rat, you have to jump through a bunch of hoops to even get to them as opposed to the 2 minutes of running it takes to reach any of the listed DS1 bosses. They still count technically I suppose but they certainly don't stand on the same ground.
>>337032579
Oh so he's the smith. Which means you can't get to him unless you fight your way through the forest or that pier area and kill the local bosses, making him not available from the start.
>>337027416
You've aldo gotta remember that a lot of areas in DaS2 like Sinner's Rise, and the two Pvp areas were given names for seemingly no reason.
>>337032982
>Three branches in the entire game
>Branches lead to dead ends
Nice.
>>337009174
That this thread is still active proves how stupid Soulsfags are
Soulsfag reporting in, and idgaf, I play and enjoy each game.
>>337033332
>idgaf
We can tell how stupid you are.
>>337033221
>Three branches in the entire game
Just stop posting
Dark Souls 3 is pretty linear but it also has the best pacing of all the Souls games. There are no pointless mandatory dead-ends like Hemwick or Cainhurst, and there are no terrible spikes in difficulty/aggravation like Blighttown or Izalith in Dark Souls.
Arguably Demons Souls pacing is on-point too, but it's an entirely different kind of game.
>>337033584
Oh yeah my bad, forgot about Smouldering Lake. 4 Branches in the entire game. One of them is optional. No connections between them either.
Herald a best, debate me.
>>337033604
>There are no pointless mandatory dead-ends like Hemwick or Cainhurst
Neither of those are mandatory mate.
>>337033825
Emerald Herald is the worst of them.
>>337033038
I don't get what's your issue. Tell me how many weapons you can get from the start in DS1, and I'll go through the trouble of counting how many you can get in 2.
>>337023979
If you ignore questlines or play on NG+ you have splits at:
Vordt or Dancer first
Then you can progress to ODA, Oceiros, Champion Gundyr, Archdragon, Nameless King
Then you have Settlement where you can choose to fight Greatwood
Then you have the choice between Watchers or Sages
Then in Catacombs you can do Wolnir or Old Demon King
Once you get to Irithyll you can completely ignore Pontiff and go for Yhorm, or go the intended route for Aldritch
Then you have Lothric Princes and Soul of Cinder.
And that's not mentioning totally optional side bosses that aren't even in a direct route, like the Demons in Settlement and Farron Keep, or the Sandworm.
There's one obvious intended path though, and the questlines really,railroad you into them.
>>337014197
found ash lake in das and ap in das3 by myself. das were clearly telegraphing about ap and ash lake was found because of habit to hit every chest i approach. din't find PWoA and dlc in das.
Here's a question.
I played a bit of DS1 cause I got it for $5, it was interesting.
Got DS2 Scholar for $5 as well.
Paid the full $60 like a scrub for DS3 and have been loving it. I'm definitely going back and finishing DS1, but is it worthwhile to go back for DS2?
>>337034414
DaS2 is very badly paced, but for $5 it can't hurt to,try it out, some people like DaS2's systems more than 1 and 3. The DLC is the best part of the game if you like the core experience.
>>337034414
It'll be worth going back as more of the same after but it's honestly a pretty weak title overall.
>>337034197
how the fuck do you ignore pontiff? isn't he mandatory?
Darks Souls 2 was a good game
>>337034594
Because you can either go to Dungeon>Profaned or go to Pontiff, not skip Pontiff but just ignore it for now.
whats the lore behind firelink shrine
i know majula is just a little town with not much interesting except that huge hole where they threw garbage
but firelink shrine in dks 1 looks like it was meant to be something important and i want to know more
and if you can explain to me the lore behind dks3 firelink shrine why ar they called the same when they are clearly not the same
also what are those flying beds of chaos in dark souls 3 near the late game when you fight ornstein? what the hell are they???!
>>337034548
>>337034592
Great.
>>337034594
Yes, Pontiff is mandatory, but you don't have to do him immediately. You can go kill Yhorm before Pontiff and there's also the whole chunk of Garden and Castle off Dancer.
Also not that Anon.
He's making a point of "It's not linear cause you don't have to do everything in a set order.
>>337009174
>that image
Mass Effect thread?
>>337034414
sure, just don't expect too much, expectations ruined das2 for me
>>337034721
ahhh i see what you mean, from manor to capital. gotcha
>>337022737
Let it go man, you are wasting your time.
A common characteristic of those on the autism spectrum is the difficulty in grasping abstract concepts, meaning non-tangible ideas, objects or things are often difficult to understand. Thus, the majority of those with autism are concrete thinkers and tend to focus on the "here and now" and have difficulty in generalizations. Included in the concrete thought process is the propensity to take words or phrases literally.
>>337034414
the title is the weakest in the series no doubt but the dlc game... ridicolous!!!!!!!
did you finish it already? because out of all the 5 games this has the worst replayability
what about Bloodborne?
>>337033756
>muh interconnectedness
Who gives a shit? The levels are too big are far apart for that. You're still a retarded memespouter claiming the game is a straight line when objectively it's not.
>>337026307
its wrong to summon at all on first play through.
learn how to parry and just roll as fast as you can
>>337034952
this graphic sucks man
>>337009174
Who cares?
If game good, play and have fun.
If game bad, play something else.
>>337022462
you can also go drain the place to open the big door to reach Blighttown and/or darkroot without the master key
>>337035120
did anyone go farther than the undead dragon in valley of the drakes? coming from new londo shortcut
seriously i tried it once and fighting the drakes there is retardedly annoying
i always killed undead dragon>grabbed loot>went to blighttown>did a lot of shit completely ignoring valley of the drakes>unflooded new londo> didnt even peek at valley of the drakes
the only good way to enter the valley is from the darkroot basin shortcut, where you can fight the drakes properly
>>337033985
Alright senpai let's settle this once and for all. Not counting enemy/boss drops but counting NPC/invaders drops. Can't believe I'm doing this.
Cestus, Andre/Vamos Hammer, Club, Mace, Morning Star, Warpick, Great Club, Battle Axe, Longsword, Shortsword, Butcher Knife, Uchigatana, Crescent Axe, Hand Axe, Bandit's Knife, Dagger, Parrying Dagger, Estoc, Rapier, Mail Breaker, Astora's Straight Sword, Barbed Straight Sword, Broadsword, Drake Sword, Sunlight Straight Sword, Bastard Sword, Claymore, Dragon Greatsword, Zweihander, Iaito, Falchion, Scimitar, Server, Partizan, Pike, Spear, Winged Spear, Great Scythe, Halberd, Short Bow, Long Bow, Black Bow of Pharis, Composite Bow, Light Crossbow, Whip.
anyone have a high res version of OP's pic?
>>337035104
>why u discuss vidya on da vidya board!?!?
Why are you even here?
>>337035429
>Dragon Greatsword
>at the start
this is some satanic shit
>>337033985
Okay, I'm bored anyway. Seems you can get 69 weapons in DS1 without having to kill any boss and without having to grind a million souls like some autist.
And that's me being nice, since you could basically triple that if you counted different magic/fire/divine/enchanted versions of standard weapons. Because you could do all that from the start, unlike in shitty DS2 where you had to make it all the way to the Iron Keep before that.
>>337035403
>seriously i tried it once and fighting the drakes there is retardedly annoying
you just roll past all of them
Or if you have a beefy weapon early in the game (like the Zweihander which you can get literally a few steps away from Firelink Shrine) you can also try to kill them for upgrade materials
>>337035848
Go to blighttown, drop down to Ash Lake, cut off the dragon's tail, homeward bone back to safety or have fun getting back up if you used a bonfire.
>>337035403
My typical start usually involves grabbing the loot in front of the dragon, sprinting by the Drakes in the way to get into Darkroot Basin. Then it's equip Astora's, parry the shit out of Havel (not enough stats to wield is still more damage than most start weapons). Then I just trapse up to Andre, unlock the elevator back to Firelink, kill Lautrec, grab the Firekeeper's soul from New Londo, upgrade flasks and head back to the Asylum. Equip the Morningstar from the chests in Firelink and bleed that fucker to death. Take my slab and other bullshit and then head down to Quelaag or spend those 20K souls on the Darkroot Crest from Andre.
I do really enjoy creating builds in DaS just because of the amount of shit you can do at the start.
>>337036057
anon either way how the fuck do you get through all of that with starting gear and initial stats
>>337036191
You fight nothing and get good at dodging Hydras
>>337036191
Simply? You barely even have to fight anything. This assumes knowledge of the game, not that you're exploring for the very first time.
>>337036191
By running past everything. You can ignore the Hydra completely and just go straight for the dragon too. It's really not very difficult at all if you're familliar with the areas.
>>337035429
I'd be okay adding the Demon Greathammer to that list. Techincally a boss drop but not exactly a difficult boss.
>>337036181
one question, how do you get past the undead dragon without it killing you
do you start by first buying 100 arrows and killing it then doing everything else or is there a way to avoid the 1 hit kill when passing near him
>>337036438
it doesnt aggro if you only take certain items
>>337036438
the undead dragon only awakens if you grab a specific item (the Humanity IIRC), and even then you can still run past him after you grab the item, before he attacks you
>>337009174
lorefags is what makes me mad. They pull things from their asses that are not in the game AT ALL.
>>337036438
You can roll through his attacks, you can pick up 2 items before he swipes and you need to roll. I just grab the sword and shield and go on my merry way.
If he starts spewing poison it's just wait and run.
>>337036315
>>337036320
>>337036353
im not used to running through the game and it would seem quite the bad trip for me, im accustomed to enjoying the difficulty of 3 hours than running through 3 hours (i know it doesnt take that long from firelink shrine>ash lake but im just talking hypothetically)
>>337036438
You can run in, get one or two hits in, the run the fuck out. You can bait it into a pattern. It's really easy. I usually do it with the uchigatana because it has nice reach and speed.
>>337035859
>counting different upgrade paths as new weapons
>thinking you can get divine upgrades or the barbed SS without killing a boss
>acting as if getting a fragrant branch for Najka is a massive work around(like grinding 13k for a cat ring and grinding 10k for the crest of artorias aren't the same thing) but then listing the Dragon Greatsword like your average pleb will accidentally stumble upon the Everlasting Dragon and cut his tail off
>using extremely specific criteria to make DS1 look as good as possible
Absolutely embarrassing.
>>337036526
humanity? theres no humanity in those corpses
also he wakes up once you collide/ get inside the circle he makes with his extremities
>>337036616
It's really not a big deal anon, it's nice for challenge runs/roleplay builds too. For example the Simon Belmont challenge run requires a quick trip through Blight Town in reverse to get the whip. Compared to that getting to Ash Lake is easier since the path to it is so open.
I just wanted the small white soap stone back.
>help out a dude for a few minutes
>get humanity back
>>337035101
fitting to Bloodborne then
>>337036768
there us a humanity in an alcove on the right wall
>>337037028
the 3 corpses in front of the dragon are sword shield and a soul.
>>337036842
yeah, im aware it would be quite fun but only after you get the sword, wich is my main gripe, since my favorite part of the game is the early stages and having to wait so much to get that 1 weapon doesnt seem very attractive to me
this anon >>337036181
also looks like he has a lot of fun with that, id enjoy trying it once
have fun guys
>>337036691
I told you I'm not counting different upgrades as new weapons, you illiterate shit. Where did I say anything about the barbed sword, you autist? And this has nothing to do with "average plebs" like you, this is about availability. DS2 makes itself look bad, I don't need to try. Thanks for reminding me about the Dragon Greatsword though, I did not count that, the Demon's Greathammer and the broken shortsword which makes it actually 72 instead of 69.
Embarrassing, child. Better luck next time.
>>337036768
I had to go check because it's been a while since I last played
yeah the dragon awakens if you try to hug him and isn't triggered simply by picking up an item, but it's still slow enough to attack that I could grab all 3 items and get past him by rolling through one attack and then getting TFO to Darkroot
>>337009648
No, I think it's the autism.
>>337036181
That's my favourite part of Dark Souls too, there's so much sequence breaking you can do at the start. Finding ways to break the beginning of the game for yourself is enjoyable in itself. It's also something that's pretty unique for the type of game. It's the freedom of progression of an actual open world game in only a somewhat open, very tightly designed world.
>>337009174
Dark Souls 2 looks wrong here. Both Heides Tower and Forrest of Fallen Giants connect to the Lost Bastille for example.
>>337009174
Is that supposed to be an approximation of the game maps?
I am not even that big of a fan of Dark Souls 2, but that map is much more of a star than whatever that is supposed to be.
>>337037565
>make a new character to reach that part in a few minutes to test this
>try pressing L3 to jump when I needed it
>die falling into a pit because that's not how you jump in Souls 1
T-Thanks DaS2 and 3
>>337028998
You haven't made the connection between "0.3 or 0.1 more connections average" and "suffering from linearity", retard.
>>337037625
>That's my favourite part of Dark Souls
Same here. And DS3 would be much better if it kept that formula. Making new characters was so much fun in DS1 but in 3 you just have to go through fucking high wall each and every time the same way, while only having a few weapons available to you.
I'm hoping the DLC might freshen up the game's beginning but I seriously doubt it, they'll just make it mid/late game stuff like always.
>>337009174
But you need 4 panels to get loss reference.
>>337037789
op is shitposting he got btfo hundreds of posts ago
just dismiss what he said and hop in to whatever discussion is on right now if you want
>>337013591
Romancing Saga 3 is one of my favorite games but that is not a great example. Most areas are literally blocked off until you get enough HP.
>>337023958
autism
>>337037840
I never liked the L3 jump, I always reverted it to the running roll. L3 was an awkward choice considering to use it you have the potential to ruin your approach.
dark souls II: jedi outcast
>>337035429
Okay here comes nothing:
Great Lance, Light crossbow, Mail Breaker, Bastard Sword, Longsword, Whip, Hand Axe, Shortsword, Drangleic Sword, Greatsword, Syan's Halberd(if lucky), Bandit Axe, Old Knight Halberd, Morningstar, Shortbow, Dagger, Ladle, Blacksmith's hammer, Club, Caestus, Bluemoon Greatsword, Pate's Spear, Halberd, Claymore, Scimitar, Dragonslayer's Crescent Axe, Blacksmith's Hammer, Deamon's Greathammer, Channeler's Trident, Old Whip,
If you count Lenigrast: Estoc, Rapier, Broadsword, Falchion, Battle Axe, Mace, Spear, Scythe.
I excluded enemy drop weapons and catalysts. Might be a bit less than in 1, but's a small difference.
>>337009174
>talks like a retard
Kid, this bord is 18+, go back to mama
>>337038519
So 29 +/-10 with drops vs 72? Wow, it's even worse than I thought.
>>337037827
rekt
>>337039059
Anon, you might have counting problems.
You listed ~45 items, while I have listed ~40 from DS2. And that's without drops.
I've counted it quickly so the numbers might not be exact, but, still..
>>337039592
I didn't list any items, I counted them. 72 are available at the start, without killing any boss. And you did count some drops like greatlance, pate's spear etc. I generously added 10 to your count and it's still a pathetic amount compared to the first game's whereas your whole argument was that DS2 offers a lot more.
>>337015417
Illusory wall ahead
>>337020995
>LONDOR BABY
![zHTDM3z[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/Bs8j2js.jpg "zHTDM3z[1]")
![Dark-Souls-Map-1940x1931[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/7wPmDg4.jpg "Dark-Souls-Map-1940x1931[1]")
