>this is japanese jesus
>>336735281
Swear to god this is the one fucking nip that can't get panties right.
>thumbnail makes it look like bared nipples
Prepare for a retarded mod who doesn't open pics to ban you
>>336735281
no, this is a Japanese Jesus
>>336735281
Chrono is Japanese Jesus
Marie is best starless.
I want her to step on my cock in her sexy high heels and shit on my face.
PISS AND SHIT
I
S
S
A
N
D
S
H
I
T
Starless is in my top 20 video games of all time.
And you can't do anything about it
>starless
>bible black
what is with horny japanese men and king crimson?
>No marisa end
Shit game desu.
>>336735387
What do you mean?
>>336738101
Not that OP but I do think everything the dude draws, specially underwear looks like granny underwear.
>>336737917
>being this new
>>336738197
There's nothing wrong with that, g-string is trashy.
>>336735281
is this like a starless sequel or some shit?
>>336735916
All he did was cry like a bitch and was probably gay. In hindsight, gundam seed was kinda awful.
>>336738309
How about regular panties and not ones that climb up to their belly buttons?
>>336738253
>that vn
i sometimes wonder why people make stuff like this. I mean its not bad or anything, but i wonder what kind of shit goes through the author's mind everyday
>>336738692
Because high cut panties are the sexiest.
>>336735281
mah dick
>>336738197
You have no idea what granny underwear is.
Granny underwear is second from left.
>>336738692
"regular panties" are unsexy as fuck.
>>336735281
I think there's a question that everyone has been avoiding... Where's the dick?
If Japan made a God then it would have to be a futa because futa's are flawless
I hope this game will have a heavy focus onfuta NTR
>>336738197
it's 80s style. it used to be popular
>>336739403
If it doesn't come back in style within the decade I'm gonna shoot up a school or something.
>>336739403
THank fuck it's not anymore, looks like grandma's highlegs
>>336737917
>what is with japanese men and king crimson?
fixed
>>336739531
Fucking millennials GET OUT GET OUT GET OUT
>>336735281
>no penis
>>336739531
Fag
>>336739691
90% of this fucking board is a millennial, you meme-spouting faggot
>>336739531
How fucking young are you?
Is your mom in her late 20s?
>>336739851
Yet you're someone the biggest faggot.
>>336739851
No seriously. Your underage is showing, please stop
>>336739691
>Implying
Millennials obsess over retro 80s.
Those were the only time those were popular, and those were dark days.
>>336739403
Man, the 80s were fucking radical.
>>336739851
I'm legitimately suspecting that you're underage if your grandmother was in her 20s in 1987.
>>336740041
"millenials" as in "people born in the 90s" might be, but here we mean "people born after 2001"
which is to say underage cunts.
>and those were dark days
you don't know shit
>>336740213
>Words mean what i want them to mean
Brilliant
>>336740378
I'm explaining you what we mean.
You meant something different.
That's all.
Now get back to >>>/b/ or someshit, go fap to pictures of your barely legal mom and don't forget to change your diaper afterwards.
>>336740532
>we
>>336735281
no. THIS is
Sorry OP, but this is Japanese Jesus
show me a better milf butt
protip: you cant
>>336735281
I think you'll find THIS is Japanese Jesus
>sexy 日本 drawings always remind me that no living being can reach that level of bodily perfection
>>336739746
You have no idea
>>336735281
I wanna eat her poop
>>336741039
>>336741274
TOO MUCH ASS
>>336741174
IESU KIRISUTO
>>336741434
/v/ is not for the Irish.
>>336741434
you can get an ass like hers too if you eat semen everyday
>>336741174
>Venom Jesus died for your sins
FUCK
>>336741174
I believe it
>>336737917
Starless best song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAAqAnCBNKQ
Fripp attack starts at 4:10I always pretend they're advertising the visual novels
>>336741317
Hold the fuck up, did she grew a dick like her daughter?
I dropped it after new maid girl was hired, i love that milf to death but the scat/futa/piss thing was too much for me to bear.
>>336735281
this shit actually gave me nightmares
>>336741434
>TOO MUCH ASS
no such thing
>Complete a 100% Starless savegame
>Check JAST's Starless page later, for reasons
>See this image
>Almost positive it didn't make it into the game
>Get mad
Similarly, Marie def never had that hairstyle or pasties in the canon game.
>>336741907
>black one piece swimsuit
muh dick
>>336741907
>beautiful art
>game is literally /d/
>>336740723
I had hoped someone posted this blue-haired door guy. Thanks for not disappointing, guyodine.
>>336741907
there's lots of promo art for the game. this one is too vanilla, it's meant to trick you into buying the game. when in reality the game is all about enjoying drinking marisa's piss. not about giving you the scenes you want. It's a lot like MGS2 if you think about it
>scat
>>336742953
you're disgusting, literally abhorrent
>>336739403
It looks fucking retarded
Like something a literal whore would wear in a retro-futuristic setting
>>336741039
When will they sale this fig again?
>>336742953
Oh get the fuck out of here with your worst fetish.
>>336742260
>vanillafags
>>336743173
>Like something a literal whore would wear in a retro-futuristic setting
sums up the late 70's to early 90's pretty well
>>336739403
vomit inducing
We need more VN's that focus around piss and scat.
Andfeet
>>336743307
yeah when it comes to porn I'm really vanilla, the deepest I can go is futa on female and ss
>>336735916
LOL
Boy that explains alot about japan
>>336735387
Agree, high cut looks very unflattering. 80s garbage
>>336743514
the joke is that the guy apparently dies twice but "comes back from the dead" a few episodes with an upgraded Gundam
tfw never living in Starless mansion
>>336743172
>>336743231
>not wanting to see Marie enjoy the BBC
face it a BLACK bull would be the only one that could ever hope to satisfy her
>>336743736
shut the fuck up you kike shit
21ST CENTURY NYMPHO MAN
>>336735281
>panties over the garter
I'm surpised they got it right most artists fuck it up
>>336743736
>glass of cum
>Popularity: ranked #210 with a score of 5.76
weebs have such shit taste it makes me angry.
>>336739403
I love it
>>336735281
id become a christian if that was jesus
>>336735281
>Great art
>Wasted on scat and various literally shit tier fetisches
Terrible
>>336735387
As opposed to all the others who do literal fucking triangles?
Eat a trillion dicks.
>>336744059
>not liking scat
>>>/reddit/
>>336743391
>>336741039
Who is this?
Never liked that artist.
The problem with these high waist panties is, while supposed to be appealing in their own way, the way this artist just happens to draw them literally do look like grannie panties.
Thick, grey, hard padding. They look awful.
>>336744198
My mom
>not just downloading all the uncensored cg's and deleting the fetishes you dont like
>>336744589
thats not even a real person on the right
I want Marie to sit on my face.
>>336744691
And that's not a spider on your right either
>>336744704
top tier taste
>>336744868
more likebottom taste
At least I'm happy I finally got to play the game. JAST took forever with the translations. I think I waited like 5 or something years to play this.
>>336744783
there's only a mirror on my right
>>336745080
you could have learned Japanese and played the game in half that time
>>336735281
No THIS is a Japanese Jesus
>>336745080
I feel like they could've handled the translations a bit better, but I suppose it's a small price to pay to get some good perversion's foot in the door. I do honestly hope the sales were good enough to get more Empress titles brought over, and in a perfect world, more titles from other studios.
>>336745191
Honestly? I could've, but I was busy getting my degree in that time instead. Crazy to think I was fresh out of HS when the game dropped, and now I'm some normalfag adult in the workforce when this finally got translated.
were the errors/typos fixed already?JAST pls
>>336745163
s-shut up!
i-its a fetish of mine
Marie is the best girlIt's a shame there's no "get married with Marie and live happily ever after" ending
>>336745163
META
E
T
A
>>336735281
Actually OP, you are mistaken.
THIS is a Japanese Jesus.
>>336745380
Yeah, I remember the huge shitstorm about JAST censoring the CGs, and the got so much that a totally-not-JAST anonymous happened to post a patch a day before the game dropped.
Man the art of this game really hits all my right places.
This is a japanese ship
>>336746005
I want to fuck that ship.
>>336746005
not cute
>>336746123
Cute only exists in contrast, even monsters can be cute.
>>336745739
We both know how a Marie ending would work, and it would be absolutely glorious.
>>336746370
Is that a daki or a bedsheet?
>>336735281
>>336741907
>>336746370
>this a 40+ year old mother
How?
Shes got the body of a prime 20 year old
>you will never marry and impregnate Marika
;_;
>>336746639
Superior Japanese genetics.
>>336738926
He has drawn for some lighter stuff, like Cleavage, but no one liked that apparently. The OVA is god-tier, though.
>>336746639
Because of tons of DRUGS AND SEMEN!
>>336746370
yes, and I'd come back
>>336741684
Need more futa...
I'd nail her until she bleeds.
Which Starless girl would you let fart in your mouth?
>>336743629
you are wrong to agree with someone who's wrong
there's nothing more unflattering than low-cut
>>336745163
>I do not think you of all people are in ANY position to call out others on their fetishes.
>>336747067
thanks man, I tend to stay away from the lolicon tag on exhentai because some of the shit they have is heinous but that one is cool
>>336747070
All but the purple and brown maids, they're low tier
>>336747070
AllI'd even eat their poop
>>336745375
almost there, m9 http://xenosaga.wikia.com/wiki/Jesus_Christ
>>336746639
SUPERIOR JAPANESE WOMEN FOLDED 1000 TIMES
>>336747350
I want to believe that most of the people here don't like the glasses bitch in general.
>>336747302
you need to get the fuck out on reddit then normie
>blasphemy ITT
>>336747536
Man, this shit is fucking bonkers.
>>336747536
Wow, this game sure seems subtle
>>336741434
>TOO MUCH ASS
?
i know what each of those words means individually but put together like that they make no sense
>>336735281
>japanese jesus
>143 replies
>ctrl+f
>nobody said it yet
Moar liek Japanesus. I'm disappointed in you, /v/.
>>336747664
>you don't enjoy a little girl being gangraped and dismembered go back to reddid
if you have to bring that shit up you're probably the one who belongs there
>>336748328
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9T8UVY6TDI
>>336747536
seriously ?
>>336737917
>King Crimson
What the fuck
Did the bible ever get an anime adaptation?
>>336749181bible black
>femdom and scat
why is this shit popular
why not play euphoria with better art, music and scenes
>>336749181
Yes.There's also a western-made CG version now what the fuck is this shit
>>336739403
muh dick
>>336749561
>with better art
nope
>>336749561
Thanks, I forgot about the name of this.
>Religious Heroine
>Pure Love Story
>Missionary Position
>Protagonist With a Face
>Kissing Scene
Whoa, this is some sick shit.
Also
>Peace Sign Ahegao
>Erotic Electrostimulation
>Shoejob
>Stuck-in-Wall Sex
>Panic Button
>Unavoidable Heroine Rape
lol
>>336735281
>Unitarianism
You'll burn for this, heretic.
>>336750837
>dude on the right
Who?
>>336750983
Onii-sama
>>336750983
>He doesn't pray to NII-SAMA every night before bed
>>336750837
>>336750983
>>336751426
>>336751615
who's on the left
>>336748139
is that piss and cum?
>>336746740
Finally, someone with taste.
>>336751871
no, that's beer and cream liquor
>>336735281
She's not moe enough to be Japanese Jesus.
Jesus never existed you manbabies
>>336752190
But he literally did he's even in the roman execution ledgers.
>no flat girl
>Japanese Jesus
>not called "Japanesus"
You had one job, weebs.
This is Buddha
>>336752190
He probably existed, but was just a dude.
>>336752380
>not イエス
Do you even weeb?
This is Japanese Edison powered by the all of the Presidents of the United States of America
Thick?
>>336752952
muh dick
>>336752952
Girls going from skinny to THICC is the best if you know what I mean
>>336739403
sweet jesus
high cut lingerie and thick bushes need to come back in fashion ASAP
>>336752013
I wish I could understand nip for the VN, though. I know it's going to be bland, but I'm just curious.
This is the visage the Crawling Chaos bears when venturing into the land of the Orientals.
>>336752952
Please!
>>336753840
>thick bushes
DISGUSTING
>>336739403
>80s panties is now technically granny underwear
if you think about it, those chicks would be at least 60 years old
feels bad man
>>336743307
not even vanilla fag but starless goes too far
>bestiality
>enema
>futa
>netorare
>nose hook
>scat
>shemale
>urination
>coprophagia (SHIT EATING)
>guro
>torture
>inflation
fucking inflation? I'm not dobson dammit!
>>336743736
You do understand that there is a character in the game that a monster of penis right?
>>336755543
Scat and shit eating are the only bad ones.
>>336755543
Everything but the shit releated stuff was hotEspecially guro
>>336755543
>futa
>enema
>shemale
>too far
>>336735916
no this is Japanese Jesus
>>336755667
>liking inflation
dobson get out of 4chan
>>336754878
>first girl I saw naked had a huge, well groomed bush
>hottest fucking thing I had ever seen in as a 14 year old in '92
>girls these days are just either unkempt or completely shaved
>ewww anon, you think pubes are hot?? weirdo
fucking kill me
>>336739098
High/cut look gay ass hell, no ass definition and mark out a bulge.
>>336755851
He's literally a Kira clone.
>>336755543
You're weak as fuck if you can't handle the bulk of that. Some things aren't to my taste from that list, but they don't disgust me in the slightest.
>>336755921
>14 years old in '92
How's it going being nearly 40 years old, old man?
>>336755862
Cum inflation yes, not the retarded deviantart kind.
>>336746005
That's an Italian ship.
>>336756104
It's fine. I look young for 40 and I have great hair genes so I'm not balding.
>>336755543
>inflation
>bad
>>336755543
even bible black had inflation. usually if there's enema there's inflation its only logical
>>336755543
You say starless goes too far, I say starless doesn't go too far enough!
FEET
>>336756341
Fuck off Dobson.
>>336756168
So it is, my mistake.
>>336756624
Dobson's art is awful but he's not wrong. And considering how many fat/weight gain threads /v/ has had, its not a minority fetish thing here either.
There is nothing wrong with scat and guro.
>>336748537
the middle one is the most accurate
the right one is white people making jesus look like the ideal white male, left one if black people doing the same.
>>336735281
Why do all the tits look so droopy?
>>336756849
>And considering how many fat/weight gain threads /v/ has had
Its literally the same fat autists spamming their shit and their tumblrtier fetish. Disgusting fucks.
>>336757029
old age does that to tits
>>336757029
that's what tits look like
>tfw you came inside
>>336757320
always come inside
outside is for plebs
>>336757104
Every fetish is autistic m8
I want to consume Marie's excreta
>>336748139
I'm not turned on or disgusted, thatshit'sjust funny.
>>336755543
I can into many things.
I can into futa.
I can into bestiality.
I can into traps.
I can even dip into scat, specially when it's done reasonablytastefullylike this.
But fuck, bad ends like those are just too much. And it doesn't even make any sense.
The literal worst ending, worst than the "worst end" comes up after you did everything right,even guessing the turns, which I did first try.
Fuck this game. Fuck the author. Fuck everything.
Also,Marika best girl
>>336757540
I'm usually not in the habit of getting my dick chopped and eating shit until I die.
>>336757320
hahahanobenis :DDDDD
>>336735281
Best girl and best end
Stop what you're doing, and answer (be truthful) the question, /v/.
Do it now.
>>336735281
No
THIS is nippon Jesus
>>336748537
The middle one looks like DSP...
>listening to Starless soundtrack
>start reading track names
>"Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani"
>"Memento Mori"
>>336758087
4 times a day or more
>>336758087
maybe thrice a day on weekdays and up to 5 a day on weekends
>>336758087
1-3 times a week max
>>336758087
I try to at least get one off a day, but it usually ends up being three or four a day.
>>336758087
Once a day, every day.
>>336735281
I don't remember her in the game. Was she one of the mom's friends?
>>336758087
At least once a day.
I really want to stop. I don't shoot cum like I used to, it just dribbles out slowly and weak like. This sucks.
>>336758087
4-5 times a week, sometimes more sometimes less
>>336758887
she is the mom
>>336735281
I hate anime.
>>336759036
Ah shit. Don't remember that hairstyle on her.
>>336759063
ASANAGI
S
A
N
A
G
I
Only played this once and my guy ended up being forcefed plates of shit (literally turds)
>>336759182
how lewd
>>336758087
erry day
doing it right now
>>336759109
>brutally maims and kills females
>treats traps far better
I don't get it.
I'll need to play this one day... but, I'm anti censorship and don't want to see scat, it hurt.
>>336759182
WORST GIRL
O
R
S
T
G
I
R
L
>>336759335
he obviously has some deep hatred for woman that is driving him to become gayer
>>336759396
The scat isn't that bad, really. There's a lot of it, but here we are.Wasn't expecting to see a horse cock abortion though.
>>336759063
>oppai loli
>>336735387
This, the style itself isn't bad, it's the fact is goes OVER the garter belt for me.
>>336759775
Great now that you mentioned it, i noticed it.
And it really freaking bothers me now. Thanks a lot.
>>336740213
you should make up new word for people born after 00.
>>336759775
That's how it should be so you can take a shit.
>>336758087
Once a day reporting in
How do you other faggots find the time for more??
>>336759063
That girl looks like she's about to get destroyed. She'll never be the same after this.
That's so hot.
>>336759775
>he never wore a garter belt before
See
>>336760002
>>336735281
I swear to god Marie must be the platonic form of every single one of my fetishes combined
>rich haughty ojou-sama with tons of shota houseboys
>thick milf with lactating breasts
>sadistic, domineering but will fuck your brains out if you obey her well
>incestuous relationship with her son
>rejuvenates her skin with semen
>into watersports
The only turn-off is theshit.Other than that she's golden.
>>336759182
See this >>336759439
>>336759182
See this >>336759439
>>336759182
See this >>336759439
>>336759182
See this >>336759439
Too fat..
>>336759446
>liking traps is gay
Next you're gonna tell me feminine penises are the same as men's penises
tfw have cute slut gf
>kk size breasts
>huge hips
>super submissive
Low riding panties are forever king.
Get your high rise crap outta here.
>>336760156
>The only turn-off is theshit.
pleb
baka
>>336759775
What the fuck
Of course you wear undies over the garter belt for convenience and function.
>>336760390
This. What's even the appeal of high rise panties? They're ugly, they're plain, and they get rid of the best part of low riding panties: feeling someone up while they're technically clothed but still feeling nothing but bare hips and abs.
>>336760406
>too bad
That's actually good
baka
>>336759908
The only girl I have slept with wearing one did the same thing. Because the garter belt has snaps that you can attach either way. The point being she was able to take her panties off but still keep garter belt and leggings on.
>>336760406
>Too bad she'd probably shit in my mouth
>Too bad
Fucking normalfag
>play starless
>excited
>dialog is fucking huge
>staring at the same pic for 7- 12 minutes at a time
FUCK
anyways, I'm severely disappointed that [Closed Game] isn't translated. or any other empress game.
>>336760795
Did starless get a translation or are you a level 6 weab?
>>336760946
Starless is translated, why are you even asking if you're in this thread?
>>336761046
I've been out of touch with the VN translation scene since Majikoi never.
>>336761125
But Majikoi and Majikoi S TL has been out for months now, you lazy faggot
>>336761125
What? Majikoi's been translated, son.
>there are people who prefer guro to scat
Finally got all the scenes last night, saved the Worst End for last. Goddamn what a ride. Favourite ending was probably A New World, even if it was the most bland. A New Family, Bizarre Marriage and Flower of Evil were pretty good too. A New Master was worth it just for Shemale Makoto.
I don't think I felt my heart sink faster then when I got The Endless Nightmare. Thought I got out with the money, the girl and a sweet ass car worth four times what they were originally paying me. Basically A New World with an extra 160mil Yen Should of realised it was never gonna end happily.
>>336760946
It was sold with cut bestiality and scat.
Now I'm not a vanillafag but I think I would have been happier without it. I still haven't finished it. As >>336760795 said the sex scenes are too fucking long and repeated over and over with minimal changes.
Bible Black scenes are just the right length. Then they made Discipline and the scenes are just a bit too long. Then Starless is just so over the top and all that bestiality and scat NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
>>336761393
I prefer it, but like neither.
>>336735281
JUST
>>336758087
Used to be ALL THE FUCKING TIME.
Now it's once a day if I'm feeling jovial, once every other or every third day on average.
I'm 28.
Old age hits you like a brick.
>>336761360
>>336761380
Wait someone finally got off their asses and finished them, I swear on me mum.
>>336761472
Oh wait I'm a retard I was thinking Dominance or Potential Ability.
>>336759775
>pull panties off
>garter is still on
Hot as fuck, pleb. They should just be the same color.
>>336735916
>>336755851
You guys are silly. THIS is Japanese Jesus.
>>336738630
>Kinda
It's been agreed on by adults and non-yaoi fan girls that it's not worth a watch and is basically just an "updated" version of 0079 anyway for a while
>>336759439
thats glasses
>>336759182
>install the patch that adds back in the scat
>HURR WHY IS THERE SCAT
>having such shit taste in the first place that you don't like scat
Does one have a dick?
Does the one with the dick have scat/guro/ntr?
>>336762228
Glasses won't get my dick cut off.Also smoker.
I've got time tojerk, how do I play this, /v/?
>>336760298
It's not gay, just plebian shit.
Does she wear that ever in-game? I just uninstalled a few days ago, and if she does, I never did that route, I don't think.
What should I play now? Should I reinstall Majikoi for the Miyako route? I never got to do that; the translation wasn't done yet when I played.
>>336759182
>*pomf* What are we gonna do on the bed?
>>336762416
Animals can't consent. And your pic are just humans with some fur on them.
Kids are sexier.
>>336762795
The animals I fap to can consent. And theyre sexier.
>>336739403
Apparently people either love or hate this.
Personally, I love how the underwear pretends to modesty with such a high waistline, but the sides are so sheer that their vulva is practically popping out.
It's so lewd.
>tfw no Starless sequel
Why even fucking live at this point?
>>336758087
SIX TIMES A DAY AND IM TRYING TO CUT BACK
JUST WENT 2 DAYS WITHOUT FAPPING AND CAVED AFTER SEEINGa figurine of tron bonne
>>336763141Good taste, anon. Go wild, my boy.
I wish the mc wasn't a beta faggot. Ruined every scene by complaining how awful it is to fuck incredibly attractive chicks. Didn't even try to enjoy getting fucked by marika. Just go with the flow man
>>336763427
STOP
IM PLAYING RIGHT NOW
DONT FUEL IT
>>336763018
2D images can not consent anon, they are images.
>>336735281
I thought this was Japanese Jesus?
>>336763432
You just don't understand, man.
>>336758087
maybe once every few days, maybe less.i'd do lewd things more if i had toys
>>336738253
>That scene where the only non-retarded-nor-full-slut girl shits herself in public.
What the fuck, man?
I remember when Bible Black was "kinda naughty". This shit was ridiculous, I didn't even bother with Starless.
>>336758087
Lately it's been daily, but just once. Like a glass of milk just before going to sleep.
>>336763915
You fell for the classic trick, anon.
>>336764039youre gonna have to post someone else because ive stopped myself for today.
>>336758087
once every 1-2 weeks
>>336738380
Anime Adaptation
>>336758087
Once or twice a day. The most I jerked off in a single day was 4.
>>336758087
Pretty rarely since it doesn't really do anything for me.
>>336761815
Variety is the spice of life anon.
>>336749561
>Not liking femdom
Are you a fag, anon? Femdom characters tend to have more of a personality than usual vanilla.
But yeah, scat isshit.
>>336764535
>liking femdom
>>336764382
>can't fuck kids irl
>can fuck adults
>prefer to fap to adults in the digital world
haha
>>336761815
source
>>336764228Like who?
>>336743629
I was beginning to fear I was the only one. The retro meme has been going so hard for so long that people's sexualities have been influenced.
>>336764613
not him but i like dominant and assertive women
femdom is too much but these attributes are much more preferable
>>336764668Yuna. Fuck Sera, she sucks. Good luck
>>336758087
Usually around 5-6 times a week on average. Some times it will be every day, some times I skip a few days, and occasionally I'll do it a couple times in one day.
>>336765181
>>336765278
cease and desist
>>336765424
But it must be done.
>jani deleted a sfw image of a lolicon looking under little girl's skirt
Who's the loli that reported it, come out! Also
>moderating an auto-saging thread
>>336765487
Keep going, don't listen to that other fag.
>>336765580
Actually, there's barely any pictures of Yuna, shit sucks man.
>>336743173
>>336743354
No taste.
It shows off a women's delicious thighs.
>>336765685
yeah i know. thats why i said good luck
>>336765849
now you understand my pain
>>336765986
I didn't wish for it to be this way.