Enter the Gungeon
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Now that the hype has settled down, what's the verdict?
I'm too shit for this game, but have some fun for twenty minutes every time I boot it up.
At 6 hours still haven't cleared the 2nd floor boss.
I'm bad.
>>336262687
Meh, it's not bad.
Although i still prefer Nuclear Throne, don't know why.
Good, but Necrodancer is still the better game.
I've sunk about a hundred hours in, it's fun, much better than Isaac, that's for sure. Not the greatest game ever made but a good time waster to play while you have some TV show on your other monitor or whatever.
>>336262687
Is that a minion?
i cant get past stage 4
>>336262687
I got my ass kicked by that moving wall and I got unmotivated because I feel like I'll never be able to beat him. Game is fun though.
>>336262687
i like it more than Nuclear Throne
>>336262687
I'm actually getting a lot better a lot faster and I'm enjoying it a lot more now
I'm 40 hours in and I can reliably get up to the Dragun. A lot more deaths than wins, but it's still progress.
>>336263424
>>336263006
FIGHT!
>>336263006
I feel the exact same way Anon. I always look at the two next to each other in my library and go "eh, guess I'll play Nuclear Throne."
NOW
THAT
THE
DUST
HAS
SETTLED LOL
JUST A QUICK SAYING, AN EXPRESSION I AM QUITE FOND OF
IN THESE TIMES, DOES THE DUST EVER TRULY SETTLE? NOW MY OPINION HAS BEEN VALIDATED THROUGH THE PASSING OF TIME
>>336262687
I've pretty much traded NT for Gungeon right now but I think that's just because I've beaten NT to death. I've played it for 400 hours over the course of three years, so I'll have to see how well Gungeon stacks up against that in the long run.
>>336263006
I would feel the same if NT would run at 60fps, Gungeon is just so much more responsive and snappy.
>>336263639
How? NT is so fucking boring.
>>336263752
>Trying to tell a man who's played a game that long that it's boring
>>336264050
It is.
>le spunky music and gravity fall references the game
>good
Kill yourself.
>>336264181
>gravity fall references
Who you think you're baiting here?
>>336264276
M8ty, i hate to break it to you, but you're playing a meme game.
>>336264523
How is Nt a meme game?
>>336264584
Don't you know? Gravity Falls copyrighted triangles with eyes.
Maybe I'm just bad but sometimes I have no idea how I'm suppose to beat some of the bosses without getting hit.
It's especially bad when you only got your starter gun. Still a fun game for an hour everytime I boot it up.
Pretty good for some reason i can only beat Snake boss for act 2
Eh.
On one hand it's much more polished and fluid than Nuclear Throne.
On the other hand it doesn't have the same hook as NT did before it all went to shit, and it requies the same time investment as an Isaac run.
Didn't regret buying it day 1, but it's just, I don't know, meh.
6.5/10
so none of these binding of isaac clones were able to emulate the fun of BoI?
>>336265621
On the contrary, almost every one of them is better than BoI because they actually rely on player skill more than gear.
>>336265750
well the fun in BoI was making up for bad RNG with your player skill.
I had fun and didn't expect this much content
I'm so dissapointed though. There's no more incentive so I can't be bothered to do anymore playthroughs after I clearedchamber 6
>Slow as fuck pacing, sometimes takes 15 minutes until you've even found a weapon
>200 Lolsorandum weapons that are basically your starting gun with a bigger ammo clip
>Boring items, very few synergies and loads of trash items like the ammolets and table tech items
>Think the music is hype when you get to the title screen and then realize the rest of the songs are utter trash
Man, my disappointment with this game is of diablo 3 proportions, i was so hype for this
>>336265889
Except most players just reroll the first floor over and over until they get something that isn't trash.
>>336266001
Have you gotten all 5 master rounds in one run yet?
>>336265494
Something about the game themes.
It just rubs me in the wrong way
There's nothing fundamentally wrong with it tho
>>336266074
What is it about this game that make the weapons feel so shitty?
>>336266074
ay man, chamber 1 and 5 music is great, I don't know what you're talking about
some of the synergies need to be worked out though, yeah. its either not having any effect at all, or getting lucky and perfect killing bosses in no time at all
>>336266176
That and the second chamber secret route I haven't gotten to yet
Overpriced
>>336266074
The pacing of this game is what really brings me down. Another rogue-lite I played had similar pacing, but it had the fucking gall to allow you to save and quit between levels. Can you imagine that?
It's a shit game, maybe worth it at -75%
>>336266254
I don't think it's only about the game feel per se, it's about the pacing too.
NT pops you in the desert with a gun and you quickly get another gun that is better than your gun and you get another one and another one and it goes on until you get some truly ridicolous weapons.
In EtG, you slowly and methodically make your way through rooms, plinking away with your pea shotter until you may or may not find a gun, but then if you find a gun, you run out of ammo and you're completetly reliant on the RNG to get ammo boxes and shit.
Basically, for me, the game didn't strike the balance between frustrating andfun.
Isaac can be the same way as EtG, but at least it has the decency to not be as punishing as EtG just because you had a bad streak of dodge rolls.
Like I said, it's not a bad game, it just requies a heftier time investment than other roguelites of it's caliber.
>>336266074
Totally agree with all those points.
>Bigger floors, more different rooms, more different enemies
>stop constanly spawning more waves per room
>more variety in weapon damage (a fucking rocket launcher barely does more than twice your starting pistol damage?)
>more buffs (damage, speed, etc)
>interesting things you might not think to do (giving trash to the sewer guy gave a decent amount of money till it was nerfed to shit)
Any of these things would improve the game immensely.
it's boring
new weapons don't really feel powerful
beginning is such a slog that I have zero motivation to start over, which is a fatal flaw for a rogue lite
>>336262687
It's ok.
>>336262687
Really mediocre. It lost any replay value right after beating the Dragun, and it was getting really stale and repetitive even before then.
I literally ONLY bought it because my brother thought I should play something while waiting for Dark Souls 3. I kind of regret it, I could have spent those hours doing something genuinely, lastingly fun instead. 6/10
>>336264523
Didn't YV come before Bill?
He was in Gun Godz before becoming a character in NT.
>>336266994
>beginning is such a slog that I have zero motivation to start over
This is the biggest gripe I have with the game. It takes so long to get going. Also you're shit out of luck if you find a shit gun on the first floor.
>>336267136
Gun Godz came out the same year as Gravity Falls started, and Bill didn't make his appearance until well after that.
Since games don't magically appear out of thin air, you can assume that Yung was an idea well before even the hint of Bill's existence was made public.
This guy is just being a meme-master.
>>336264523
Fucking meme currency.
I like it
>>336266332
You mean the Abbey? It's pretty fun, the boss of the Abbey is pretty challenging. Personally I haven't fought the lich yet but having fought all the rest of the bosses in the game, I'm not sure why they decided to make the treadnaught the most challenging one.
>>336266994
>beginning is such a slog that I have zero motivation to start over
This could probably be easily fixed by giving characters different starting weapons and a random D-C tier gun to start with.
No, you need a completetly homogenized BB gun and the CHANCE to get a decent gun, and not just 2 blank upgrades.
Jesus.
I met the creator at PAX. he's really cool and has so many ideas for free content. He's not too fond of dailies but he said he'll find a non-traditional way to add them.
Controller or keyboard & mouse?
is there any reason to play as the convict or the hunter?
getting hit is something you want to avoid at all if possible and that corgi has never done anything useful for me
>>336267802
>a completetly homogenized BB gun
But their default pistols are all different, they just do the same damage per shot
Marine's has 10 shots and high accuracy, second slowest fire rate though
Pilot's has 8 shots and garbage accuracy, slowest starting gun
Hunter's has 6 shots and okay accuracy, fires pretty fast if you mash the trigger and has a fast reload.
Convict's has, I wanna say 4 or 5 shots? I don't use her much and fires as fast as you can mash the trigger. The bullets don't travel very far.
My only real problem with the game is the sheer number of useless joke weapons. Did it really need the pea shooter AND the .38 AND the derringer AND the laser rifle AND the flash gun AND the klobb and plenty of others? The only use these weapons have is duct taping a good weapon to them so you have a big ammo pool. It wouldn't be so bad to have all those jokes if the good guns were actually useable but you have to be super stingy with your ammo if you want to survive the hollow and the forge later on. There's no telling if you'll get a single ammo drop for your entire run after all and there's no way to force it.
>>336268513
Wait, they're actually different?
Well, shit, I thought that the differences are superficial.
TIL
>>336268337
Corgi is great and crossbow makes the first two floors much more fun. Convict isn't great but her pistol has a high rate of fire at least.
>>336268513
Actually Convict's and Hunter's revolvers are slightly more damaging than the other two. Hunter's revolver barely shoots faster if you mash click, unlike with Convict's.
>>336268728
crossbow is marginally more useful than the starter weapon, and generally speaking I find that the permanent boosts of accuracy on the marine or shop discount on the pilot are vastly more useful in the long run
So what happens if you duct tape a single shot weapon to something that never reloads like a beam weapon or the bee hive? Does it just fire once and then never again?
>>336268606
>pea shooter
Becomes a best if you find Broccoli
>.38
Shoots faster after rolling
>Derringer
Sometimes used in Gunsling King's challenges
>Laser rifle
No game about guns is complete without one
>Flash Gun
Obvious refererence, albeit a bad gun.
>Klobb
Joke weapon
>>336268880
Crossbow one shots everything on the first floor and two shots everything on the second which makes them a lot .more enjoyable. The corgi can end up being the best passive but it's all RNG. Pilot and marine are probably the best overall but huntress is good fun, she has the best past boss fight too.
>>336262687
is it like nuclear throne?
if so it's garbage.
>>336269145
only time I've seen the klobb is when the huntress told me to kill a room with it
B U L L E T
U
L
L
E
T
>>336269145
In a game with dozens of weapons and passives, a gun that only becomes useful if you have one specific item is not a whole lot of use. I've run into the pea shooter a single time outside the tutorial in 80 hours of play and its not even that rare. What are the odds I'll find broccoli and the pea shooter in one run? There are guns that were unlocked from the very start of the game I have yet to see thanks to the RNG. I only saw the lightsabre for the first time last night.
It's one of the few games I feel like I'm truly good at. 116 hours in, beat the game completely several times on each character (including the secret characters), just 4 achievements left to complete.
>>336266074
Don't forget the enemy health scaling with no reliable ways to increase damage for the starter you're expected to use regularly through the first three chambers.
>>336269145
The game was right to include a laser rifle but why did it have to be utter trash? They didn't need to fill the roster of weapons with garbage.
Should I buy this game or Nuclear Throne?
so what's the worst gun and why is it the alien engine?
>>336269669
That is a thing that pisses me off badly. Why even do that? Do they just want the enemies to become bullet sponges?
>>336269760
It's up to you. You might prefer one or the other. Watch some gameplay. Nuclear Throne is way more fast paced, I find.
I wasn't too impressed. Problem is it all becomes really samey really fast. Most guns are just some type of machine-gun while the enemies becomes increasingly bigger bullet sponges for no reason, whilst most of your passives are gimmicky instead of useful.
Early floor bosses has maybe 30% more HP than they should -- they aren't difficult, just tedious, to kill.
>>336269669
>>336269919
That's because the same enemies that show up in the first floor also show up later and if they still had the same amount of health, why even use other weapons than the starter pistol?
>>336263604
Is this a poem
Does it have music?
>>336269890
>alien engine
>bad
Its my favorite weapon for the forge and the hollow. Worst weapon is the derringer or the klobb.
Better combat mechanics than Isaac, but terrible pacing. Early game is a fucking chore, opening shortcuts is mostly down to RNG and there aren't enough cool synergies.
The pacing as others have said is fucking HORRIBLE.
If you don't get enough keys for the first floors chest, or you get shit weapons or buffs, you basically have to restart or have the most excruciatingly boring bullet sponge experience ever.
Which is like 4/5 starts,
>>336270074
You're already expected to use the starter as your mainstay up until the Hollow. Adding more enemies and more projectiles would be a much better solution.
>>336269760
pirate both
>>336270570
You do need to know how to game the system a bit when it comes to keys. You're guaranteed at least one key per floor, if one hasn't been picked up by the time you enter the shop for that floor, the shop is guaranteed to have a key for sale. If you have no keys, and a key drops, do not pick it up, find the shop first, that way you know you'll have two keys, one for each chest on the floor.
I think the game would be vastly improved if the shop weren't randomized, it should have one armor, one ammo, one key, one heart and two blanks as well as one random item, every time you enter it.
>buy the Klobb because I wanted it to be Klobbering Time
>Gun's complete garbage, doesn't even one shot a bat
>>336269543
B L E
U L T
>>336271108
Well yeah, its the klobb, didn't you play goldeneye? What did you expect? Spending money on the klobb is probably one of the dumbest things you can do in Gungeon.
I don't play games as much as I want to anymore so having this little game is quite nice. I'm able to do a few runs every once in a while and get some enjoyment out of it.
Cons:
>needs more characters
I know there are 2 unlockables, but still I like having lots of variety
>no boss practice mode
I want to practice dodging their shit
>samey floors
after a while, the same floors and enemies get stale
>room variety
maybe add in some obstacle rooms floor 1 or something to make run-starts not boring
>multiculturalism
I wish every character was white
Pros:
>its good
takes skill and shit I don't have time for
>fun guns / items
>everything is bullets
>its hard
because I'm a shitter and theres no boss prax mode
>short runs
Pretty fun, still need to get the part for the bullet in floor 3. I hope they add more floors some day.
>>336271306
>multiculturalism
I want to see what happens when you unlock Coonvict's alt skin.
>>336263006
It has to do a lot with NT having a much more fast pacing. In gungeon you move a little too slow for my tastes, add that to what IMO is a bad sound design when it comes to weapons. Nothing feels like it truly packs a punch, and every weapon sounds like a pea shooter unlike NT where almost every weapon has this feeling f being truly awesome.
>>336271437
How did you not get the floor 3 part?
That is like the easiest one to get
Give me infinite ammo and balance the guns around that
Give me better accuracy, at least marine-tier
Give me faster movement and balance the game around that
Then I'll be happy
>>336271697
What even is the Convicts alt-skin? It looks like a Mad Max villain.
I'm just bored of it. This game hates the idea of you having fun. The floors are painfully big and samey, everything takes too long to kill, most guns are shit, and good ones run out too quick, RNG fucks you in the ass with items and keys, monsters scale in health, if you get hit once by first two floor bosses you might as well just quick cause you won't have enough heart containers to suffer through further floors. Getting to the true boss also requires fuckload of grinding, fuck this shit
>>336271997
It takes up an active item slot and I just never bothered.
>>336272505
Oh yeah I keep forgetting that
>>336272396
>getting to the true boss requires a fuckload of grinding
>literally only requires 4 successful runs
>>336272591
Doesn't even take 4 runs
>>336266701
Not him,
Wanna say that NT is a fun game but man why must rami be such a cunt.
I prefer gungeon precisely because it's more methodical. Even when you have a shit run it doesn't feel unfair, you just have to play it more carefully and one good gun can transform your run into a winner.
That said, if you don't get a decent gun early on it can get pretty tedious.
Overall the reason why I prefer gungeon is because of the polish they put into the game. The music, visuals and responsiveness of the controls just really turns me on baby
>>336272247
That plus dyke hair
>>336272806
What? Yes it does, you need to clear all the pasts in order to unlock the lich.
>>336272967
Weird-ass hair is part of being a Mad Max villain if that really is what she's supposed to be.
>>336272050
>infinite ammo
This. This game is supposed to be a wacky celebrations of all things gun-related, but instead I'm jewing the guns because there's never enough bullets. Guns should work with refresher like items - ammo is infinite, but every gun needs at least one room cooldown to be usable again. And with bosses you're just free to shoot whatever the fuck you want.
>>336263006
this, gameplay in EtG is slow and unappealing to me. it's funny because in theory EtG is my dream game, but something about the way it feels to play and fight is so dull.
>>336268880
Pilot feels like the best character to me, since its a very realistic possibility that you're going to have a drought of keys for long stretches
>>336273138
The only positive part of the ammo system is that it does force you to use guns that you wouldn't otherwise and that sort of improvisation can be fun. Its not worth the aggravation of never being able to use any fun weapons in the first three floors though.
>>336273138
This. I hate games that rely on consumables too much. I keep ending up using my shitty free ammo gun for everything and getting overwhelmed because I can't out damage those six hundred nigillion shotgun shells waltzing toward me
>>336273424
Whenever I play pilot I end up with a huge amount of keys and I never use the lockpick. Its kind of irritating.
>>336262687
It's fun but It does have problems
Some guns are dogshit and the items are mostly trash
You get health drops at full health and ammo drops when you only have the starter gun
Rat steals everything so you cant save dropped ammo or items
Bad guns can fuck rounds. Sometimes you just don't have the necessary shit even when you do have keys to use.
It also gets kind of boring after a while because of it. I hope they add more characters/pasts and maybe bonus floors and challenge rooms with special gun/item setups
Robot needs a past and alt. Cultist got one.
The drops are so stingy literally the only way it's enjoyable for me is:
>cheat engine
>chest spawns on room clear
You still never have enough keys, but at least you get a steady stream of weapons so you're not limited to starter gun for floor 1, and if you get awful rng floor 2. The key and ammo drop-rate is still just so bad it's like isaac pre expert nerf.
>>336273457
Its unnecessary since enemy design already forces you to equip various guns. For example, its always a bummer when your strongest gun is something slow and heavy, and the boss is Beholster
>get ghostbusters gun
>clear first 4 bosses whilst just looking at projectiles coming towards me with the occasional blank
Goddamn that gun is fucking OP
Also agree with the ammo system, its pretty retarded, especially when you can get random ammo drops on like floor 1 room 2, and then the fucking jewrat steals it.
>>336273138
Instead of infinite ammo, just fucking refresh ammo on every new floor.
Fucking tired of being out of ammo chamber 4 or 5 sometimes.
I really think one of the characters, probably the convict since the molotov is trash, should start with the cigarettes just so that there's a character designed to mitigate the RNG for people who hate getting screwed by never getting any drops.
>>336273851
Homing weapons are god-tier. I beat the drake first time after getting Scrambler on first floor and nodamaging all the bosses
>>336273138
>forced to use starting pistol because I dont want to waste bullets on normal enemies
>finally ammo drops
>start using other weapons
>come back later and the ammo is stolen
Who thought that taking away your items and pickups when you leave the room is a good idea? Like seriously, this rat is a another aspect of the game why I cant get into it as much
>>336273598
Sure, it happens but if you get that lock vendor to spawn it's all the more worth it.
>>336273997
>Molotov is trash
what?
>>336274095
I can see why they might want it for use items but it doesn't even take armour or health. It's pretty stupidly inconsistent perhaps they will patch
>>336274095
it should stop stealing ammo, at the very fucking least.
>>336263006
I like Gungeon more due to it being more skill reliant than NT.
In 100 hours of play I've seen 3 demon mouths, 4 mirrors, a single glitch chest and no door lords. Why is this game so fucking stingy with every interesting mechanic?
>>336269543
FUCK. THAT. GUN.
>>336262687
topdown twinstick indie shoooter/10
>>336269890
I, too, thought Alien Engine as complete shit. It's a beast in the cramped rooms though. If you can use it effectively, it has probably the best dps in game.
>find meatgun
>back gun
the rape, it was hilarious
>>336273603
If that's the way you enjoy to play it more power to you.
Personally, I like RNG but I can see how it could really make you resent this game, especially since the balance issues are quite obvious.
Gungeon is my favourite game this year with dark souls 3 as a close second. Here's hoping for more decent games this year
>>336274231
It's just fire does a little damage and fades away, the only useful actives are damage avoiders, healing items and the jar of bees. In general I think the active items in this game that are intended to be used in combat are terrible.
>>336274383
29 hours
3 mirrors 1 door lord 1 glitch chest 0
what is demon mouth? that firelaser weapon? If yes 3 if it's something else 0
Ok I went back in time with the gun that can kill the past and did the memory of two characters.
Is there any more secret content besides the other two memories?
>>336274719
Demon Mouth is a room with a big demonic looking head in it, if you hit it with water it gives you a free weapon and if you have 100 coins or any curse, you can enter it and get to a room that has every specialty vendor in it.
>>336274231
Molotov is pretty trash against bosses. It's a great starting active item though, if you just remember to use it
>>336262687
shit, I knew I wouldn't like it as more and more people got hyped, finally got the game and all the guns feel weak as shit, reloading is a thing that shouldn't be in these types of games, also ammo is pretty dumb
>>336269919
>Do they just want the enemies to become bullet sponges?
Its just a shitty pun anon. Let it go.
>>336266074
I think i agree a little on this. The game peaks insanely hard on the intro, it then keeps going on a slow downward spiral for every part of the game thats not a boss fight.
I think the unlock sytem also cripples the game. Mostly because once you unlock enough shop keepers, they are always better than Bello, because Bello sucks fucking balls.
>>336274327
Its skill reliant for all the wrong reason - boring spongy enemies that overwhelm the screen with shit while you're forced to corserve ammo for your mediocre guns to have an actual shot at beating that boss that takes approximately infinity^10000 to die.Compare it to Isaac, where enemies present challenge not because they're bullet sponges, but because their design changes with each floor. In BoI you walk into the room without knowing what might happen, even if your character is powerful he still can get rekt by bumrushing monsters in a tiny room. In comparison, in Gungeon, your room-to-room expectations are
>a bullethell
>a bullethell with slightly different enemies
>a bullethell while fire hammer chases my ass around
>a fucking Iron Maiden
>>336274546
>Find Stinger
>find back gun
>find that item that shoots your current gun in a circle when you use an active item
BEEEEEEEEEEEEES
>>336269565
I think this is the biggest problem of this game. It needs to really up it's pace. More weapons per floor. More passive upgrades per floor. Make it so that you can actually see some weapons or passive synergies without doing a 2 hour long run. Compensate for it with more enemies, I don't know. Just not the fucking hp scaling, which is the fucking worst.
>>336275053
Sounds like you're just a BoI fanboy.
Isaac runs can be carried 100% by you getting lucky with an item drop, in Gungeon you have to work for your win.
Enemies aren't even THAT bullet-spongy if you use your guns properly. I've only had ammo issues when I get a bunch of shitty guns, and that's just RNG screwing which is what you have to expect playing a roguelite.
>>336274267
It actually does take armour. Doesn't take keys though.
>>336275031
What, the first two floors are fucking trivial to beat, by no means are they "insanely hard". The only difficult part of the game (before unlocking the 6th floor) is getting through the hollow and the forge (and the treadnaught). Ironically the Hollow and the Forge's bosses are much easier than just the normal rooms on those floors. Fuck Revolvenents and Shelletons.
>>336274509
I hate it so much since every time I get it I start playing risky as fuck.
I wish they took particular inspiration from the heavy weapons in dark souls where there is a weapon that deals massive damage but renders you unable to move well when you shoot it. If there is something like that I've not come across it yet
>>336275053
I honestly don't think the bosses HP totals are so bad. Anything beisdes a Rifle or charged shot weapons kills them in a reasonable amount of time, but those are better for normal rooms anyways. The only things that definitely have too much HP are the shotgun enemies on later floors. I mean come on, I'd rather deal with more of the later enemy times instead of three dozen of those boring assholes per floor.
>>336275213
I had an idea for how to fix the enemy scaling: just spawn more but cut their hp.
For example, spawn triple the number of bullet kin, but give them 33% HP. Leave the giga nigga enemies like Gun Nuts and Lead Maidens as is.
Basically all the enemies that are the same size as the player should spawn in much larger amounts, big enemies (gun nuts, shelletons, etc) stay the way they are.
>>336275465
>times
Types*
>>336269890
>>336274509
Alien engine is fucking awesome for room clearing, the fuck you're on about.
>run up to an enemy
>rev up that engine
>enemy ded
>recoil pushes you away from incoming bullets
>>336263604
chill out robert frost
I was pretty hyped for this, but after 10 hours I dropped it.
>Slow first floor
>Drop rate is frustrating
>Enemy health scales for each floor
>THE GUNS ARE SHIT
Should I get it? I wasn't into Isaac because I didn't like how dependent on items it was and is seems like being good and rng are closer to 50:50. Haven't played or seen anything of Nuclear Throne
>>336262687
It's alright, but has some major issues that are bringing it down. It probably could have been better than Isaac if the devs knew what they were doing, instead it's a little worse than Throne albeit with more overall content.
>>336275376
The 2 first floors are trivial to beat. But they take A LOT of time. And because of how shit works, you want to at the least scavenge the floors until something not shit drops.
I think the game has a very good player skill progression, but its also very hard to progress because the enemies are literal bullet sponges.
And getting a good gun will speed up the progression by rather insane amounts.
Theoretically you got a very good shot at the game as marine only. Realistically, you die to the 2nd or third floor because reloading and DPS is a fucking bitch.
>>336263006
Nuclear Throne is more charming.
The playable characters in Gungeon are ridiculously dull and uninteresting. Which is pretty inexcusable when you consider that the 'plotline' is much more character focused than NT. The fact that I struggle picking between my favourite NT characters and don't between Gungeon characters is pretty telling.
Which is frustrating because the setting and enemy art is much more fun for Gungeon.
>>336275465
I dunno, I'd like to see as few as possible of those red gunjurers that are fucking invulnerable for 75% of the time and are basically impossible to hit with any slow moving projectile.
>>336275814
>Theoretically you got a very good shot at the game as marine only
Holy shit this, trying to fucking hit shit as anything else is fucking stupidly bad, you can see the bullets coming out at like 30 degrees angle
>>336274901
Not who you're responding to, but damn I've played the game for many many hours but I've never seen that. It really nails in the stinginess they have with showing you cool secrets.
It would be fine if the game had more secrets. I'm hoping it'll get more interesting through updated balance and features.
>>336262687
>Weapons are too weak and theres not enough ammo, later levels are way too based on luck because of this.
>>336275338
>RNG screwing you is okay
>RNG rewarding you is bad
I hate that mentality. Roguelikes are fun precisely because sometimes your characters gets out of control, its okay because you're still going on one life. For some reason roguelites took 'losing is fun' idea too close to heart
Hoarding guns for the first 2-3 floors, only using your good shit for problem rooms and Lead Maidens, solves the ammo problems for the rest of the run.
But then that creates the new problem of making the first half of a run really fucking boring.
>>336262687
I've got roughly 49 hours into the game now. Played it every day since release. I think it's fun enough, but (as I feared) it doesn't have the staying power of Isaac.
Things I see wrong with this game:
Runs are always too long. I can't quit and then finish the run later. This leads me to a dilemma where sometimes I want to play the game, but I can't justify spending 40-60 minutes on a single run that I can't complete at a later time.
Every run feels so samey, since passives are useless 80% of the time and the same guns feel like they drop over and over.
4th floor bosses are objectively harder than Dragun (unless Dragun spams the fucking knives like a cunt), which leads to wonky balance.
Convict needs a buff ASAP. She has a shit passive, a shit starting pistol, and a shit bonus gun. There's literally no reason to ever play her after you finish her past. Compared to the Pilot, who also has a shit starting pistol, but has objectively the best starting item in the game to balance it out.
Bullet (just about the only unlock I have left to get) is too dependent on RNG to unlock. I swear I've done 20 runs and not seen a single caped bullet. It's really depressing knowing that I can't progress because of RNG not liking me enough.
Speaking of RNG fucking you, shops can sometimes have nothing but the 3 guaranteed pickups. And good luck if those 3 pickups are 2 small hearts and armor when you're on the 4th chamber about to go to 5th chamber/bullet hell and half your weapons are empty because I swear there's a limited number of ammo drops per run and they are frontloaded to fuck (got 4 ammo drops on the 2nd floor once).
In a game where drops are so rare, the Robot seems to get the most heart drops of any character.
>>336263348
Wall boss is the easiest 4th floor boss. Especially if you get anything to counter the fire (flight, sponge, hazmat suit).
>>336274952
Once you get used to the reloading it's fine, I think it adds depth.
I hated it early on but it soon became like second nature to me, but I see your point.
If anything, there should be more guns that don't require reloading, for example the alien pistol.
NT has a 60 fps mod, right?
>>336276118
Where did I say the RNG rewarding you is bad?
I didn't say it's okay for the RNG to screw you over, that's just something that you expect to happen after years of playing roguelites/likes
>>336274895
>2 unlockable characters
>the rest of the items that you haven't unlocked, some done through special tasks
>a whole new chamber complete with the "true" final boss
>2 secret levels if you haven't checked them already
Fun game with that'll-do-pig tier humor.
It's on the very brink of becoming Reddit trash without actually dipping over so it's easily tolerable. The good gameplay makes up for it.
Better than Nuclear Throne in every way but needs more unlockable characters and alternatives to level design because replayability is almost nill after you kill the past of around your second or third gungeoneer.
>>336275716
If you aren't a retard you can win the entire game with just the starting gun. It will be shitty and tedious but you can totally do it.
Gungeon is heavily reliant on the player being good to win, you can get some kick ass guns but if you are bad at dodging you're going to die.
>>336263153
this
>>336276658
>becoming Reddit trash
what did he mean by this
>>336266074
I agree with you.
On one run I cleared the first level finding only locked chests and no keys. It wasn't hard, just tedious.
>>336276728
It's close to becoming a game with terrible unfunny tryhard reference-based Reddit humor. It falls closer towards that on a gradient than away from it without actually entering that side of the gradient.
If a Reddit alien skin wouldn't look out of place in your game then you fucked up.
>>336276602
thanks senpai
>>336276893
what is even your point
>>336276893
Are you retarded, anon? The entire point of the game is 'use cool guns that exist IRL or in other media'.
There's a good number of references/reference guns, but some original and pretty funny ones too (Fish in a Barrel, Scrambler, literal peashooter, t-shirt cannon that kills motherfuckers)
The references that are more blatant, like Lonk, are humorous, ie he's a fucking retard who gets lost on every floor.
>>336277107
I've made it very defined maybe you should grow up from being underage before you try to post things online.
>>336276893
i like how you pretend /v/ is not exactly like reddit, but more angry
>>336277148
I said close to, dipshit, not is.
>>336277218
No /v/ is Reddit now with no differences, thanks goobergaters.
I need a list or a roadmap for the progress I should be making. I can get the 4th floor boss as the soldier, but that's as far as I can get. What are some goals I should try accomplish that aren't just "beat the game"?
>>336270576
I'm pretty conflicted with that since I'd tend to agree, but at the same time more enemies might make certain situations quite unfair, in a way where not even a well timed dodge roll would help you dodge a bullet (even if you were spacing yourself correctly)
They'd have to rebalance the enemies and rooms around that entirely.
Maybe an easier fix would be gun modifications, for example a machine where you dump a gun or two that will enhance the power of a pre-existing gun.
But then certain guns would become just ridiculously overpowered. So then there should be classes of legendary guns or something, ones that can't be upgraded.
Basically it would take a bunch of time and effort, but I hope they do address major balance issues somehow.
>>336275716
Nuclear Throne is probably the best of the three, despite also being flawed as all shit. Both NT and EtG are better games than BoI, imo. You should give a try to Nuclear Throne first then try out EtG when you get bored with that.
>>336277148
iirc lonk was some tumblr character thing at one point
>>336273310
>use Cheat Engine
>make the game faster in 1.5
>enjoy much better
>>336262879
That's what getting accustomed to games like Hotline Miami that require literally no skill gets you.
>>336277215
You speak like a redditor and your shit's all retarded.
>>336277310
How would a reddit alien skin even look good in the game? Your shits all retarded.
>>336276301
>Runs are always too long. I can't quit and then finish the run later. This leads me to a dilemma where sometimes I want to play the game, but I can't justify spending 40-60 minutes on a single run that I can't complete at a later time.
Yeah I really don't understand why you can't just save and continue later. There's literally no reason not to have that in the game.
>>336274095
barely played this meme game but the same happened to me.. i also was fucking confused by this design decision
they ACTUALLY coded this. someone thought of the idea, thought it was worth implementing and they spend dev time implementing it
FOR WHAT PURPOSE?
>>336278270
Makes it easily scammable for achievements?
>>336277383
I'm just calling him Lonk for being 'not link'.
Gungeon novelty weapons should be way cooler, they're mostly weak as shit.
For example a melee weapon with which you have to get up close and personal, but it deals massive damage and has a 50% chance to deal a blank effect when it has contact with an enemy.
>>336275716
If youre unsure of these types of games in the first place just torrent it.
If you enjoy the game and the effort the devs put into it buy it.
>>336278363
Blasphemy is what you are thinking of. That's already in the game.
>>336278339
Scammable? Please explain.
Or do you mean that the game gets "a longer lifespan" because people take more time grinding the cheevos?
>>336278613
or just torrent it until they learn to make demos
You know when you have a really shitty run in Isaac and you feel like you do no fucking damage to anything and every chance you get to improve your damage doesn't work out?
That's Gungeon.
>now that the dust has settled xD
>>336278768
If the game can be saved, then the game needs to have a save file, which can be easily copied and stored in case you fail the run
>>336277337
Unlocking level shortcuts. Doing secret levels. Unlocking all merchants. Buying unlocks from the merchants in the starting hub. Somewhere down the line you will unlock so much broken shit that it will eventually carry you through the game.
>>336279085
Yeah, I did that for CLIVAN sometimes when I got a really funny build that I wanted to fool around with, like getting a golem made out of Arcanite.
>>336279040
Isaac isn't nearly as good as Gungeon
I really wanted to like this game because the presentation is really good and the core gameplay is fun. However I feel like it hasn't decided what kind of game it wants to be.
>It throws ridicolous amounts of bullets at you but barely gives you health drops
>It focuses heavily on reflexes but the floors are so huge you get burned out before the first half of the game
>Enemies are huge bullet sponges and even "high tier" weapons do shit damage
But what really infuriates me is that bullets are scarce. What fucking retard would make a game about guns and then pressure you into not using them? For fuck sake.
>>336279078
triggered
im making a simple/cheap roguelite fps thats coming to steam
what are some absolute do's/don'ts?
>>336276301
>4th floor bosses
>hard
Treadnaught blows them out of the water.
>>336278270
Wait, you can't?
Holy shit. I never had to, I just assumed the feature was in.
>>336279219
You do realize that you shouldn't be getting hit, right?
>>336279219
>getting hit at all
dumpster
>>336262687
It's good. Initially I was frustrated, but it became better for me 25 hrs in or so. I got gud, I also unlocked some potent items and we met somewhere halfway with the game.
It is true though that it won't be dethroning Isaac as the indie game any time soon. Not much depth unfortunately. I've beaten the game and don't really have much incentive to play more, maybe I'll squeeze 10 more hrs or so out of this.
But as far as roguelites ago, it is my second most played after Isaac. It kept me captivated longer than Necrodancer and FTL, even though would be fair to call those two better games.
>>336279369
Treadnaught is a piece of shit, you're not wrong. Not as difficult as the 4th floor bosses, though. Especially post-nerf.
>>336279292
When I was playing spelunky, I spent ages trying to beat the main game and enjoyed the fuck out of getting better, then I finally beat it (both classic and hd). A few months later I find out theres an entire deeper part of it, where you collect a key, black market, kill yourself and respawn and get past the end boss to another set of levels, I thought that was super fucking cool, it also pushed you through the lower game again to get to it, which kept it going for longer without it feeling like a grind
I don't want to sound like a casual but the overall droprate of shit is too fucking low. Especially when it asks for a bunch of resources to progress through hub quests.
>>336278363
Here is how you think Gungeon works:
>Floor 1-2 can drop good guns
The reality:
>A good gun(B-S rank guns) never really drops on floor 1-2, and something thats entry level drops rarely
The novelty guns you think about, exists. As A and S rank items. But since drop quality is affected by floor? They never spawn early, so you never get to see them, because you can't git gud.
Good players might get them to drop in floor 3+. Rarely.
A normal bad player like you, will never see them outside of the stars aligning.
>>336279369
HIgh Priest is vastly more bullshit than Tank now
>>336279292
Depends on what you are using to fight with. I would wager that most people would prefer more enemies to rip and tear through a la doom and serious sam, rather than a small number of enemies with 3x the hp. That's my biggest problem with Gungeon, the enemies have a lot of HP when they'd be better off spawning way more.
I still fucking love this game though
>>336279503
>>336279521
>git gud replies
Might as well not reply at all.
>>336278673
Dang, thanks for mentioning it, had to google it.
I'm going to try to unlock that ASAP.
Mainly my point was that most of the novelty weapons aren't that fun to use, but blasphemy sounds like what I was looking for.
>>336279292
>roguelite fps
>do's/don'ts
Don't do those unless you have an actual budget. So fucking tired of waiting for a proper fps roguelite instead of all this half-cooked trash.
>>336279821
You don't unlock it, you unlock the character who starts with it, THEN you unlock the weapon for everyone else to find.
>>336279778
That's really it though. Stop getting hit so much, there aren't that many enemies with truly nasty bullet patterns
>>336279778
No really, the game heavily gives rewards for not getting hit consistantly.
>>336279595
so difficulty options without a real ceiling?
>>336279691
its a bit like serious sam. lots of fodder
>>336270576
no you aren't
most runs you can ditch your starter as soon as you find a better gun on floor 1
>>336280004
Fodder enemies are fun as long as you have badass guns that rip and tear. Something like a shotgun that blasts through one guy and continues to the next, or explosions. Or a huge sword.
>>336262687
It's pretty meh. As someone who put a shit to of hours into rouge like games, there isn't anything that keeps me interested. The guns are whatever, some are good, some are bad. But I dont ever feel like my character is really evolving on repeat plays. Pretty much, I'm just hoping to get a good gun and beat it. Buying items is never worth it. You get too little money on the first floor, so I dont even know why there's a shop. Buy the time you get to the second floor, your expected to spend your money on an expensive in game item instead of anything that would actually help you. You secret rooms are never worth it. Most of the time, its just some cheep, pick up.
It's a good bullet hell, but there are better games out there.
>>336280036
>better gun
>on floor 1
>>336279608
So the git gud memeing is moving onto gungeon? Goddamn, I was actually enjoying most of the discussion that was going on here.
You said it: they basically never drop early, making the early game a slog.
And later on they drop rarely, making the late game a slog on most occasions.
I love the game, that's why I'm critiquing it.
>>336279961
>>336279995
If you think the game's difficulty is satisfying (I don't) just ignore my first line of green text. If that was the only problem I had with that game I'd be playing it right now instead of ranting about it on a taiwanese telecomunication center.
>>336279845
> all this half-cooked trash
what games?
>>336280483
BoI, NT, EtG :^)
>>336262828
Same.
>>336279961
Yes that is what I meant, sorry for being unclear.
I've been playing the game without any outside reference so I didn't know of it before, but after browsing this thread it seems some of the shit is pretty damn easy to miss if you don't read about it.
>>336262828
>>336280723
ditto
i cant get into roguelites because its like playing level 1 of a game over and over..
>>336279778
A game mechanic in Gungeon, is that each room you clear without getting hit grants you a +1% chance of things dropping. Once something drops, this chance resets to 0, and has to be grinded again to work.
If a enemy hits you, that enemy will drop less scrap.
If you clear a boss without getting hit, you get +1 HP. Thats a extra 2 hits per floor. A extra 8 health by Dragun, or a extra 12 by Lich if you go to floor 1.5 too.
This is assisted by the fact you get 2 blanks per floor, but only if you use all blanks.
>>336280373
Gungeon isn't git gud.
Gungeon is "not getting hit is a insane reward mechanic and positive feedback loop".
The longer you avoid getting hit, the larger your reward.
>>336280445
I find the level of difficulty to be fair but challenging.
>>336280739
Try to avoid using the wiki unless you want to look up a specific gun with the in game description being unclear.
>>336280036
And then you run out of ammo on the very first floor and don't find an ammo pick up til floor 3.
Have people done any datamining for this game yet?
>>336280835
Well no. Coolness is directly influenced by not being hit, but resets on getting a room reward as well.
Am I being trolled here with people claiming treadnaught is hard?
>>336281109
>A game mechanic in Gungeon, is that each room you clear without getting hit grants you a +1% chance of things dropping. Once something drops, this chance resets to 0, and has to be grinded again to work.
>Coolness is directly influenced by not being hit, but resets on getting a room reward as well.
These are the same statements anon. Unless you are implying coolness is PER ENEMY instead of PER ROOM.
>>336280835
That was confirmed false. The +1% thing happens regardless of whether you take damage, that's just how the coolness stat works. Avoiding damage does nothing for you except not taking damage.
My main problem with Gungeon is that every gun feels so fucking weak. That and with the HP scaling of enemies when you do get better shit it's just like taking out shit with your starter all over again only with retextured bullets and you can run out of ammo.
>>336280801
In your defense most roguelites could use a more streamlined early game. That being said, early game should have a lot more variety than the rest of the game to begin with, regardless of the player being good. I wonder if we'll ever see a roguelite that has 4-5 alternate first levels just for the sake of not being a repetitive slog.
It's INCREDIBLY slow. A lot of the guns are just bad. Play Nuclear Throne instead.
>>336281323
So basically: You should smoke all your health if you get cigarettes on first floor, just to increase chance of hearts dropping?
>>336281234
nerfed a patch ago. People complaining have probably not played since then.
>>336281627
Yep
>>336281627
It does work that way, yes. You could snowball it pretty hard by floor 4.
>>336281384
That really struck a chord with me, it seems like a simple solution.
For a game that's based on its difficulty and replayability, makes sense that you'd have many variations of the first floors that are all quite difficult, but less variations of later floors.
The problem in that could be that people want to restart the game if they have a floor they don't like, but that would be easily handled with some punishment for restarting floors and dying within the first 2 minutes or so.
Cram in a ton of secret or otherwise extraneous bosses and you've struck gold.
Its so depressing to shoot these bosses. I can't believe anyone actually implies that its better than BoI
Case and point, two similar bosses:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxB79HLZzMg
>fast paced
>the boss isn't spongetank
>fight happens in a small room, with randomly moving enemy that also blocks your movements with shit droppings
>player needs to be both aware of the boss and his surroundings all the time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFEoe2OQdLU
>room is so huge you can actually lose the boss from sight
>moves predictably, the only challenge is shitload of bullets
>like, a million bullets, are you having fun yet?
>sponger to begin with, can boost himself to be nearly indestructable
>if you got there without good weapons, enjoy your 5-6 minutes of hand twisting bullshit
>>336262687
Game is excellent. The only gripe I have is as other people have said, a full run takes 40-60 minutes and you can't save. I have beaten all the pasts and am taking a break before going for the hard-mode stuff.
The game is very skill reliant and most of the people you see saying the game is bad can't git gud or are Nuclear Throne shills. Yes, it's a slower paced game, but in some ways I actually prefer that. Less appealing to CoD kiddies who want quick runs and rewards, but much more satisfying to beat the bosses and floors.
Overall 9/10, they should add ability to save.
>>336281323
I think that you can't get money from an enemy that hits you.
>>336281234
If you have long ranged weapons he's the easiest boss in a game, if you don't you're fucked
I'm embarrassed to admit I still haven't killed the dragun yet.
I'm working on building the bullet and getting the shortcuts so I haven't trained his patterns. I keep making the mistake of staying close to him so I always get hit by that super fast spread shot.
>>336282065
>Game advertises itself as a bullet hell
>Is mad because there are so many bullets
>'like, a million bullets'
wew lad
>>336282065
>I can't believe anyone actually implies that its better than BoI
BoI has rudimentary combat mechanics compared to either NT or EtG. It's crippled by limiting itself in the room sizes as well. Both NT and EtG are superior games in that they have more potential for improvement while BoI is by design crippled.
>>336282371
Don't bother too much with shortcuts until you want to get the weapons they unlock
You're only cheating yourself out of item drops, money and possible masteries
I think the later ones might require Oubliette and Abbey runs to get enough money and resources though
>That passive item that gives you Gears of War reload timing bonus
Fuck, that should've been a mechanic from the start. It's pretty fun to use. Make it tighter so it's not too powerful and there you have it.
>>336283018
If you clear the convicts past, all you need to get enough money is to find the briefcase, instant 250 coins.
just get bullet and win game ez pz
>>336276505
maybe but mods are built upon update #19 while the game currently is on update #98. The mod situation for Nuclear throne is a piece of shit. The fact that the mods can't figure out a way to implement mods into the current game is a huge frustration.
>>336282837
Not disagreeing, etg is superior to boi, but restraint in mechanics is as important as adding them. Otherwise every 13 year old would be a legendary game designer.
Too bad fatmund is a hack, though.
>>336268513
You're wrong. They do different damage.
>>336282371
Dragun isn't even hard. You can get good at the rest of the game and just style on him with 6 heart containers without breaking a sweat. I'm pretty bad at the game myself and couldn't do shit to dragun by my 70th death. Then I got two moderately decent runs and killed it twice in a row as different characters.
>the first time I ever killed dragun was with 7 heart containers but just one hp left by the time I entered the room
>was prepared to get fucked
>turned out that little pig companion fucking resurrects you with full health
>it actually starts playing the death animation with clock rewinding then shooting you
>except this little guy just runs from outside the screen and takes the bullet for you
>back at dragun with 7 hp containers ready to avenge the pig bro
>do it and clear my first past as well all in one run
Never expected this game to give me feels.
Anon, if you can't beat this on a regular basis, how do you expect to beat it on complete level 9+ curse round?
Nuclear Throne-fags
How do I get good? I've only gotten to the lab once.
>>336262687
Too slow, scaling HP for no fucking reason, and there are too many uninteresting and/or useless guns that fall-off as the game goes on.
Rogue-lite games are trite but the best ones do a good job of making you feel strong and yet fragile at the same time. In Gungeon you're just kinda "there", chipping away at enemies. I never really felt powerful.
Also all the classes are pretty similar and don't really encourage you to try different approaches with your build - you're just gonna grab the same shit every run if you can while being frugal with your keys/dosh.
To sum the game up; Tedious
BoI/NT aren't going anywhere
>Get Tangler
>Use it for the first time on Dragun
>Dragun flips out and turns into a fucked up rectangle
>Afraid that my laptop shit itself before I realize it's a what the gun does
I've got brain problems
yfw you looped for the first time in NT
>>336284241
Play defensively. Lure enemies to corridors. Don't pick up garbage weapons. Use explosives to destroy walls and make hiding spots if you're faced with an open room. NT pre loops is entirely strategy based and can be cleared completely with a fucking wrench. Bosses have strategies too but I'm not writing a fucking guide for every single one here.
>>336282191
>anyone who doesn't like this game is a CoD kiddie
>>336284938
Yeah, I guess I don't play defensively enough, I've been treating it like a game you can blaze through with good mutations and basic shooting skills. I should play it safer.
Goodbye everyone!
>>336284736
Tangler is fucking surreal
>>336284973
>I become physically uncomfortable playing slower paced games
>I like instant rewards
Like I said, it probably isn't appealing to people who can't handle EtGs pacing. People who enjoy Nuclear Throne are probably predisposed to like games like CoD or other such games with a quicker pace and more instant gratification.
Never said that was bad, just saying that certain types of people won't find the game appealing.
>>336284893
I went from Gungeon to NT and originally thought NT was just a boring stripped down version of Gungeon with faster combat, but holy shit NT has so much hidden depth to it, it's easily become one of my favorite games.
>>336274327
what are you talking about, gungeon is rng as fuck. on my third run ever I got meat gun and back gun and cruise controlled all the way to the final boss. all of my good runs have been because I got an overpowered build. meanwhile, there has never been a situation in NT where I got a perk/gun that let me win. you can get a heavy auto crossbow and hand pick your perks, if you ain't gud then the throne ain't for you.
>>336285691
I don't know, is the CoD audience people who dislike tons of shitty weapons and bullet sponge enemies?
>>336280256
100% correct,DB:^)
What are the best boss killing weapons? So far from my experiences, machine guns and shotguns seem to be the kind of stuff that gives the most damage the fastest outside the ultra rare broken guns.
>>336283387
It originally was a like that, and got removed and made into an item because they thought it was too overwhelming having it a standard mechanic.
Thing makes even the Klobbe good, too bad I keep forgetting to dodge when timing reloads.
Two words
>Scaling
>HP
It's never been good and this game is no exception. It just isn't fun to need a magazine and a half to kill every generic fodder enemy in the game if you haven't gotten a good gun yet. Especially since it tends to spawn dozens of them every room, the time to clear is too long and only gets longer the more you play.
>>336286140
Well the way you put it, no, nobody in their tight mind likes those things. That said, those things are minor compared to the things I like about the game. It's a lazy youtube-tier comment for sure to say not enjoying gungeon=cod fan
>>336262687
S'okay.
Even the most endgame guns don't feel that powerful, but the dodge/blank system while concentrating on movement (along with enemies that predict movement) makes it much more involved than NT's relatively braindead "keep moving and fucking shoot".
But the SFX and endgame insanity don't hold a candle to NT's work, so I suppose it just depends.
At least Gungeon and NT highlight how fucking awful Isaac plays.
>>336285039
>I've been treating it like a game you can blaze through
Don't. Until loop you play it like a murder hobo mutant simulator.
>one weapon is always wrench/shovel/sledge to clobber enemies from behind a corner and save ammo. Or to reflect bullets. You can reliably get a wrench on almost every run
>other is something that you can accurately shoot at your enemies on demand for an extended period of time without running out of ammo. Assault rifle, crossbows and so on. Something that you can actually count on nailing that enemy you're aiming at.
>utility option is a grenade launcher/rpg. Can almost always get a grenade launcher. Good at clearing rooms. Good at terraforming the battlefield. Don't use it without putting thought into every shot ever or you will fuck yourself up.
Pretty much cruise control for a successful run.
>>336285691
>NT
>instant gratification
>no bullet sponges
You're in no position to say these things until you get to your third loop in NT. These games are just paced differently.
>>336286560
I tend to save beam weapons and extremely high rate of fire stuff for bosses. Anything with homing or piercing/bouncing projectiles works extremely well too. Shotguns are actually better at clearing rooms because you can nail these hp sponges in one shoot for once.
>>336287219
I haven't played much of NT (besides a beta build old as fuck), but I can't get into EtG at all, while BoI can keep me hooked. Some anons above have already described my gripes with it well, the game feels like you're just tickling enemies with your starter guns, and you never really feel powerful with the weapons you find. Stuff like the rat stealing rng dropped ammo is just retarded.
I'm making progress, getting into more floors with each playthrough, but I simply don't find it satisfying to play at all. There's something missing in it
>>336288178
It's missing 3x the enemies with 1/3rd the hitpoints.
Yeah Gungeon has a real, perhaps apt, bullet sponge issue.
>>336271437
If you're clamoring for more floors, maybe you should finish building that bullet.Who knows what might happen
>>336262687
What exactly is killing their past? I know what items to get, and it gives you alpha/omega bullets, but what do they do?
Like everyone has said the game is imbalanced in lots of ways and too rng reliant to even have a good run. I just want to know what "end game" is essentially and if I get a good reward at some point that isnt "Now you have a tiny % chance to get a new weapon!"
Meh. It's cool, I haven't beaten it yet though. What irritates me is the rng. Like, can't open the obliette floor cause there is not enough keys, even without opening any chests.
I can have a whole run up to floor 4-5 without any single weapon better than the starting pistol.
The wall boss is retarded if you are not lucky enough to get the specific items.
You can get that green orc merchant that sells cool weapons on lvl 1. But well, you don't get enough money after clearing the whole 1st floor to buy anything from him. What's the fucking point?
It's retarded that it's not about smart choices, like whether to open a chest or save the key, it's about that fucking rng that shits in your face because even if you play perfectly through the floor, you still won't be able to use some features the game throws at you.
>look, there is this specific npc that sells stuff for keys
>forgot to tell you, the none of the floors dropped a single key and the shop keeper has none either
It just feels like I'm farming the green money to buy weapons in the breach, only to not get them in the future runs.
>>336290093
There should always be 2 keys on floor 1 now. If a key doesn't drop, the shopkeeper will have one.
>>336288863
Beating the fifth floor boss and using the bullet that can kill the past shunts you into a special bossfight
You go back to 3 hearts and get special guns/items for that fight
Beating that gets you a special costume for the character
beating all main pasts lets you go to a new area after killing the boss instead of just going to kill your past
It took me 30 hours but I finally beat the gungeon
That super space turtle is amazing. That little guy pulled my ass out of the fire tons of times when I got him on stage 4.
>>336262687
badly designed and boring
even more reliant on rng than simillar games like issac due to the base gun and 80% of rest being pure shit
bosses and enemies have too much health and progress is made too slow
Pretty good game
I like Isaac but hearing about EtG doesn't really make me interested.
It seems like its main gimmick is all the guns which is alright but that's like taking the most boring part of Isaac(active items) and designing most of a game around it. Gungeon has the advantage of letting you keep all your weapons but it still seems kind of eh, and some people have said that the passive items in Gungeon are kind of crappy.
My favorite parts of Isaac is getting enough items to become a monstrous god or finding items that work together in a really cool synergy and it sounds like Gungeon doesn't have much of those aspects.
>>336292145
>My favorite parts of Isaac is getting enough items to become a monstrous god
You won't like gungeon. The appeal of gungeon is the gameplay and challenge, not a gear based power fantasy.
>>336291926
This game honestly LOOKS really good. The art-style and the sprites really catch the eye, but when you're actually playing it I just feel so utterly bored after 2-3 stages. For a game that's all about guns, they sure did a great job of making the guns really shitty in terms of feel and plain old usefulness for the most part. Last time I played, I felt that you just don't get enough stuff to play with at all. The game was really stingy with its drops, which made everything even slower than it had to be.
>>336279557
I'd say it has far more depth than Isaac.
Isaac has more breadth though
>>336294579
Not necessarily a good thing when a good amount of that "breadth" is just bloat that makes the memorable runs rarer.
>>336293001
>gear based power fantasy.
Are SJWs evolving?
>>336294048
I agree. The first floor feels like a chore after a few runs.
I love it
>Gorgun
Why is this bitch so embarassingly easy compared to other bosses?
>>336297950
Even the bullet king from the first chamber is harder.
>>336262687
Excellent game. 180 hours in and couldn't be happier with it. I've done almost everything there is to do. Hope they release a DLC.
Awful game that made me realise how shit the Issac formula is.
>>336299256
Meh, 95% of the complaints against this game are from people that expect a clone of Isaac/NT or are just complete shit. The bullet sponge/pacing/shit weapons complaints are all memes tbqh. The complaints against RNG are from ultra shitters that don't know what genre they're playing. It's a game that falls far on the skill based side of the spectrum, and because of the average casual neo /v/ player is going to Q_Q all day long making excuses for their failure. Don't get me wrong, it's not perfect, but the majority of criticisms are invalid and directed towards the wrong points.
>>336291926
I have a feeling that's going to be my last achievement too.
>>336299701
you noticed it too?
>wah scaling
>I DROPPED the game because of hp ""scaling""
>maps taking too long
>too much/not enough RNG compared to other rogues
its just different
I don't get how /v/ dropped this one this quickly, and for the pettiest reasons
I expected complaining but not to such a degree
had fun with it for a good 90 hours though
>>336263006
I honestly think that EtG is more fair than NT and that makes it a better game. The whole game in every level of NT consists in looking for a safe corner that can cover you while you shoot non-stop on enemies on the opposite side of your screen, because 3 seconds are enough to kill your character despite it 12 HP. It has a random component that I really dislike.
>Spawn in an open area next to a car
>You have less than 2 to run away from the car because if it explodes you instantly die
>You don't know how the rest of the map looks
Also fuck the 6-3 boss.
In EtG, it is more about bullet hell and make the best out of your skill as most bosses are meant to be fought in giant open areas with nothing to cover yourself.
>>336269145
Flash gun and laser rifle are surprisingly useful due. Range and piercing are both important.
>>336300605
It's because the vast majority of /v/ are casual scrubs.
>>336278331
So you can't utilize everything on the floor int he most optimal way like in Isaac.
It's the same reason that they have chest that have explode timers on them. You have to make a decision and just move on.
>>336269890
>He doesn't go drifting with alien engine
>>336301248
And here I thought those were just to bait you into burning a key.
>>336271437
>fightsabre
Invalidated
>>336301248
but they don't even tell you that its gonna disappear, so you go waste all your best ammo, then come back and its gone. which could fuck your whole run which took you an hour
>>336302232
Losing because you didn't know something is a pretty typical part of roguelikes.
>>336302495
Tradition doesn't make it good. Cover-based shooting is pretty fucking traditional by this point, too.
>>336302560
It also doesn't make it bad. Just because you're butthurt that the game doesn't tell you everything about it straight up doesn't mean it's flawed game design.
>>336302560
You're playing the wrong genre m8. Have you tried Stardew Valley yet? It's real comfy.
>>336302495
>>336302670
could you suck down this games cum any harder?
its objectively bad design. maybe they'll patch it
get over it
>>336302885
git gud
>>336302885
Could you please be a little more salty? It's getting me hard.
>>336302960
This.
>>336302670
You know what? I'd say it is.
Lack of communication of mechanics with the player is bad design. What exactly would be lost by an appendix in the ammonicon explaining shit like Coolness or Curse? Or some vague list of NPCs that would indicate that there's a chance for pickups to disappear.
What? Does that make it too casual?
This shit is the worst about roguelikes. Not that contemporary indie action-roguelikes even take that much from older titles apart from procgen and permadeath.
And it used to be so much fucking worse before wikis became a thing - remember the absolute BITCHFIT people threw over the Nethack wiki existing? Fucking hell.
>>336302758
Go fuck yourself, cunt.
>>336303075
It's design you don't like. That's not the same thing as bad design. I enjoy having a game that tries to keep some secrets and expects me to learn from my losses.
>>336303217
Well whatever. The gameplay is good and the wiki exists. About as much of a compromise as there's going to get.
>>336303385
>using the wiki
>proving you're shit
Nethack is a shit game too. Lot's of RNG, I didn't know wtf was going on. Bad graphics. Indie garbage. Too difficult.
>>336303502
>Lot's of RNG, I didn't know wtf was going on.
There's a wiki for that.
>Actually died on Dragun's gimmick dodgeroll final phase
Feels bad. Should've dodge rolled diagonally instead of waiting and doing it horizontally.
>>336303024
>>336302960
wrong
>>336302670
> Just because you're butthurt that the game doesn't tell you everything about it straight up doesn't mean it's flawed game design
but thats not whats happening.
the game communicates to the player that items stay. then it drops an item. and it doesn't stay. and the penalty to the player is huge. it breaks the game rules without communicating it to the player and can waste up to an hours progress.
What did Spelunky get so right that all these shitty roguelites keep getting wrong?
>>336303925
Well, the Tumblr nose attracts faggots like you.
>>336303925
Nothing, Spelunky just came first.
>>336303925
for me, that a lot of the mechanics are visually represented and not about descriptions or numbers
also that the level gen changes how the game plays out in a big way
>>336303925
Nothing really, they're both good.
>>336303925
I think the trap mechanics are done well, there's a fine balance between exploring time and the ghost, there's also the fact the ghost can turn shit into diamonds, as giving you a nice risk/reward proposition if you can evade it.
Levels feel different, so do enemies and the kind of traps you get, and items change your movement, exploration and combat capabilities like a fuckload.
>>336262687
it's fun, but holy shit I never get fucking good weapons so tired of getting the bow and the barrel gun n shit like that.
>>336304962
Fully charge the bow, it's good. Barrell is ok, I just used it to take out trigger twins and bullet king.
>>336304962
I haven't really found all that much difference between weapons, outside of a minor few that destroy bosses.
Starter weapon is fine. I just wish enemy health didn't scale per floor.
>fuck-all ammo drops for an entire run
>burn through the last of my ammo reaching the Blacksmith in the Forge
>no ammo for sale, garbage guns
>reach Dragun by some miracle
>spend a fucking year plinking away at him with the Marine's default pistol
>beat him somehow
>no sense of accomplishment comes, just a horrible sense of dissatisfaction and irritation for having stuck out such a tedious run
>the feeling is compounded when I clear Marine's Past on the first attempt because it's piss easy seriously what the fuck all the bullshit I went through to get here and it's like a first chamber boss fuck yourself
I don't think I like it.
>>336262687
i played gungeon for like 4 hours and thought it was okay but then i played nuclear throne for the first time and had 10x more fun
fuck enter the memegeon
>>336262687
Throwing another vote in for "health scaling ruins what would otherwise by a good game."
>>336305413
The pasts are all easy. The 6th chamber is a bit more of a challenge.
>get the BFG knockoff from a golden chest
>that's the only non-starter weapon that i've literally ever received after 6~hours
the RNG is fucking garbage
>>336302103
If you have bullet time and alien engine you can slomo drift through swarms of bullets up to each enemy in the room and kill them 3fast3furious.
>mfw
>>336307047
>that's the only non-starter weapon that i've literally ever received after 6~hours
>he's never cleared the first floor in 6 hours
fun idea for a game with good artstyle and designs but is ultimately ruined by faggot fucking devs who do nothing but nerf literally everything in the game to make it as absolutely tedious as possible
>shadow nerf selling so you can't make any money, say bye bye to the elevator quest
>nerf secret room detection so you absolutely MUST waste resources to discover them, often giving a terrible ROI
>design hundreds of guns, but due to terrible ammo economy you will spend 90% of your time playing with your starting gun
conversely, a game called hyper light drifter came out around the same time, and was also a challenging game. And what did that dev do? added iframes to your dash and added co-op, aka two things that his fans desperately wanted.
One dev shits on its audience because lel git gud fuckfaces we already have your money, the other does whatever he can to ensure his audience has more fun with his game.
Gungeon lasts infinitely longer than HLD but I would rather play HLD 1000 times over than suffer through gungeon playthroughs.
>get hit once by lvl 1 boss
>restart game out of shame
Every
Single
Game
>>336307526
you pretty much have to restart if you don't perfectly flawless finish the first two bosses
>>336267709
>Treadnaught
This; everyone else doable but I always have a hard time with that guy
Get the pillars down and try to kite, drops pulse bombs and tons of tankers.
>>336307584
Not really. I've done the Dragun with two and a half hearts left before.
It's better to forge ahead and see what you get instead of pussying out.
>>336303925
Get Vagante, senpai. You won't feel disappointed.
>Snake boss
That one is the most bullshit chamber 2 boss.
Sometimes he just decides he wants to bite me and he's faster than you and it's super annoying to get away.
>>336288423
I'm not exactly clamoring for more floors, I just think it would be cool if they added more.
>>336302231
Oh no I used a overpowered weapon in a roguelike. Next you will tell me explosives are out, because the destroy bullets, healing items and invulnerability is out, and no gun bur pea shooter and lower case r are excepted right?
>>336307440
>implying fixing obvious exploits is bad
>being a shitter relying on obvious exploits
>being so bad you have to rely on the starting gun
Game is ruined because of the scaling.
It defeats the purpose of giving the player options.
Simple as.
>>336269543
Gee wow 900 rounds of useless
That or orientate everyone towards a pit and start the spelling bee.
>>336262687
It's hampered by it's own reliance on randomness to advance
>>336307973
>making a game more tedious is a good thing
>in a SINGLE PLAYER GAME
you are beyond fucking retarded
>>336269145
>Sling and angel shrine
GIANT KILLA
>>336303925
It's the original hipster pick.
>>336308112
>implying difficulty == tedious
It's only tedious when you never learn from your mistakes because you're shit. Shouldn't you be playing Minecraft or something?
>>336308574
>elevator quest isn't tedious
>literally have to make it through the entire game with the starting gun
>even if you sell all of your guns the entire way through and can flawless each boss, you can STILL fail the elevator quest if you don't get enough keys
>completely based on RNG
>no matter how good you are at the game, you could flawless the entire run, you can still fail it
>implying flawlessing the entire game with the starting gun is fun and not a tedious nightmare of bulletsponges
what
>>336307440
>added iframes to your dash
Casual shit
>>336262687
It's alright, characters don't feel like they have much depth though, pretty much just loadouts really.
Bit of a personal taste but I just can't enjoy the slow pace, like it almost feels worse than isaac pace wise (disclaimer: I've only ever played the old isaac)
>>336282191
>>336285691
Might as well get a tripcode while you're at it man. We get it, you've sunk a lot of time into the game and you wanna feel cool.
The pace is everything between games, the reason I don't enjoy EtG is the same reason I fucking hate fighting golden scorpions in NT, I don't enjoy sitting behind cover and waiting for slow projectiles to hit something before I can continue what I'm doing
>>336308831
i completely agree, the iframes was totally unneeded. The game isn't even hard, its appropriately challenging and the fact that you had to AVOID with your dash instead of just iframe through everything made it fun.
But regardless, the dev INCREASED player agency instead of took it away, like gungeon devs have been doing on a regular basis.
>>336308745
>so shit he can't do minimum resource challenge runs
>so shit he can't use the starter gun
>so shit he didn't go to oubliette and abbey
>complaining about rng in a roguelite. plz carry me rngesus!
>kek, only if you're shit.
>no reason why you would do this but sure, you could if you wanted to.
>>336307973
>implying purposefully omitting nerfs to the game is acceptable
its like you want the dev to lie to you
>>336309116
wait i thought you were trying to prove you weren't shit. top fucking kek.
what's the best class to start with for beginners? got my ass kicked on 2nd floor boss as marine
>>336312010
Marine. Best range. Most "health." Free ammo. Best starter. Buffed accuracy.
>>336312010
Hunter or Marine. Hunter's crossbow can ez mode the 1st boss. Marine's passive and pistol are good. Pilot's my favorite but the least noob friendly.
>>336312010
i like convict, her weapon doesn't have as big a clip but you can fire it quicker and it downs enemies faster than marine's sidearm, and the starter shotgun she gets is good
>>336312140
>>336312362
>>336312380
thanks anons
The only character thats the least bit likeable is Pilot. Convict is a shitter and Hunter/Marine are 2serious blankfaced losers.
>>336262687
I like it and i've cleared all the pasts but I hate how tanky all of the enemies are, it just makes runs take so long and is unfun.
