EU4 Colonies
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You are currently reading a thread in /v/ - Video Games
You are currently reading a thread in /v/ - Video Games
So, /v/, while the game is shit, it still has some playability, so I'm returning to it from time to time and always face the same fucking problem when starting to colonise:
How to fucking handle colonial nations
There are three forms of doing this stuff:
>Get 4 colonies in the region in the most important spot, so you keep them as your own land
>Get colonial nation
>Get 4 crown colonies and handle rest for client state
And none of them being satisfactionary nor profitable in real sense
>Crown colonies
You can have 4 of them. Enough to keep important provinces for trade, but that's all. Technically you can change that in defines.lua, but then again, getting all the colonies on your own is pain in the ass AND since they are considered your own provinces, shitload of "huge empire" bad events can be triggered
>Colonial nations
A really, really mixed bag. On one hand, they are doing colonisation for you, but... what's left for you are metropoly to do? Look as someone else is colonising? Doing colonisation just to loose provinces for the subject nation? Not to mention you technically gain half their profit and half their trade power, BUT keeping the land for yourself provides you simply more. And worst of all things - you can't just keep any provinces within colonial region for yourself, as it's "all or nothing" deal the moment you get colonial nation. Let's also not forget about tariffs, liberty desire and what not
>Client state
Come up late and provides none of the bonuses of colonial nation, BUT allows you to keep provinces that have true value (all the trade ones). Still, shows up very late and at this points it would be more about conquest of foreign colonies than making your own.
How the fuck can one handle this situation? None feels like real solution. I mean... colonial nations with ability to control some provinces as your own would solve all the problems, but that's not the option, right?
>>336118470
why is norway denmark iceland and greece blank
>>336120830
You can't bum your own thread btw
>>336120953
I dunno, why can't you read and/or recognize color?
Good point about Greece, though.
>>336121241
>colourblind dipshit trying to talk shit
The green representing Norway, Denmark and Iceland has no writing on it and is nowhere else on the map. If its 'Colonial Missed Opportunity' I will laugh in your fucking retarded map making face.
if you want to colonize at full value go for africa/indonesia
if you can establish a good amount of colonies in those regions you can generate an almost retarded amount of trade income
>>336120953
>>336121241
>>336121512
>>336121512
Guys, how about the OP's question? Would also know how to handle this shit, as it's extremely frustrating when you can't have any real control about the trade in Americas and actually loosing money instead of making it if you have colonial nations.
Any way to control provinces with river estuaries or important harbours, while having colonial nations?
>>336121512
I didn't make it, guy, I just know how to fucking read it. Take one last sip from your mad cup, then switch to something more chill that'll calm your dumb tits down. Maybe help you read straight, too. OP's map may be missing text on Greece, but other than that it's fine; ordinary folk with functional eyeballs and brains would easily understand that that colossal piece of text obviously relates to the three relevant green areas, given that it covers one of them and is very close to another.
>>336121946
>retarded nigger spazzing out and backpedaling like crazy someone insulted his piece of shit map
>>336121945
none what so ever
there should be the option to divert trade like with protectorates giving you 100% of the trade income
the only good thing about colonial nations is the gold fleet system, if you can keep pirates under control is more profitable than actually owning gold mines yourself since AI goldmines never deplete
>>336118470
>le blob may may
>>336121941
But Americas are simply closer. It takes half the time to get to any province in America in worst case than it takes to reach any other part of the world when colonising. Plus for true value all it takes is Cape (all of it) and Zanzibar (the important provinces) - suddenly ALL the cash flowing from Asia is yours with just a handful of provinces.
Can't do the same with Americans, because fucking colonial nations. I'm literally bleeding cash when going there. I'm not even sure how Johan and co. figured out something as stupid as "you handle all your provinces to subject and you can't do shit about it". I want my important trading provinces as MINE, not AIs. It's extremely annoying in Brazil and Columbia, where there are literally 4 provinces you will ever need in each, while everythng else could be nicely fed to AI nation and grant you absurd profit... nah, you give everything or nothing.
>>336122203
I never understood why people even bother with protectorates, especially those with coastal provinces. They give you more profit under direct control. The only place protectorates are useful is India - you take the trading provinces, AI governs the rest. Any other part of world - waste of time and profit. Hence it's better to directly conquer all of Indonesia than even think about protectorates out there.
>>336122252
Brazil and Columbia have a chance to get gold provinces
and with the indian trade you'll want a majority share in malacca at the very least and if you can try to divert all the indian trade as well
that said the most profit from colonization I've found is as a non-european nation
Indonesian nations can colonize the entire area for full value generating gigantic amounts of profit, especially if you manage to grab all the colonies before the europeans get there ensuring the "decline of the spice trade" never happens and 70% of your provinces have a 4.5 value trade good in it
>>336122252
>Brazil and Columbia
How about merging former Guyana region with Columbia, so you can't get nice and clean Dutch West Indies going under direct control, because you create some retarded Dutch Columbia?
Not to mention the sole fact how colonial nations discourage colonial conquest, as all your gains will be fed to AI.
>>336122528
takes a shitload of monarch power to core everything, not to mention the gigantic amount of corruption you get from alternate religion provinces
takes zero monarch power to turn a large nation into a protectorate
anyone else here think the treaty of tordesillas system is in a lot of cases retarded?
If a colonial nation successfully revolts against its overlords that overlord still "owns" the entire region and the AI is hardcoded to almost never colonize a region someone else has claimed so they'll refuse to make colonies themselves
same with certain areas that should not have the treaty system like the Caribbean islands, it just feels wrong seeing portugal own all of them
>>336122723
You are missing my point. I want to control just a bunch of provinces in those two regions and feed the rest of it to AI. If I pick for example some historical start as France, I can start with CNs in Canada and Ohio region AND directly controlled colonies in said regions that will stay as such as long as I won't get any new colonies in the region. Why can't I simply decide what provinces are fed to AI and what not? The moment colonial nation is formed, they start collecting from trade and I've got just half of trade power, so all I can do is join them in collecting, not even bothering to pass the trade further. It's much cheaper than any other option, but cut off half of my trade profit already.
>>336122872
>Corruption
It doesn't work. I mean... the mechanics for it are so god-awfully broken it's never an issue, unless you got some really shitty STRING of events to ramp up high corruption in short time.
>>336123065
I understand what you're coming from, there's a lot of things wrong with the system
that said is there any historical equivalent to what you're suggesting?
>>336120953
>>336121512
>>336122163
holy shit
/b/ pls go
>>336123024
>so they'll refuse to make colonies themselves
This.
Jesus, it's so fucking annoying! Once had Brittany taking bunch of colonies in Caribbean by pure luck and dynastic changes, bam, Brittany Antilles created with just 6 provinces out there and NOBODY wanted to colonise the rest. Meanwhile, Catholic Norway managed to secure northern part of Thirteen Colonies and entire fucking region, from Deleware to Florida, was not contested by any nation at all.
This treaty system is just shit the way how AI looses any initiative to colonise, conquer or just act. Sure, I can easily exploit this when colonising, but it feels just gamey af.
>>336123065
I hate the colonial nations thing, doesn't let you have enough power and control over them.
Costs outweigh the benefits
>>336123391
learn how to make a map faggot
>>336123473
not even talking about other nations refusing to make provinces in a treaty area
talking about say if the USA revolts from Spain (yeh right, GB colonizing the right area) it'll flat out refuse to expand because of the colonial restriction
also doesn't help that generally speaking the protestant reformation tends to be limited to the HRE only and the counter-revolution triggers quickly enough no major european nations ever convert making sure everyone is limited by the treaty system
>>336123303
Dutch way of handling Americas? They were all direct control and they've controlled much more land than what 4 provinces represent. Then the ports remained as state-owned, while the colonies themselves were controlled by appointed governors. Meaning local administration was handing the colonies and their internal issues, BUT the republic was controlling the trade coming and going.
Which is exactly what I want from the system - let the AI handle colonial nations, but for fucks sake, why I can't control bunch of designated ports?! They were all historically designated as important ones, regardless of coloniser, for direct control of the crown/republic.
Just like OP posted - it would be great to be able to form CNs like CS - feeding them provinces of your choice, while keeping what you really want for yourself.
>>336123739
yeh its an annoying system, and I guess the crown colony system isn't included because the AI wouldn't be able to handle it
that said the dutch are the only example of this system, all the major colonizers had other systems, and perhaps there should be a "Colonial governor demands control over trade port" event that either has you give up a province to the colony or else get an increase in liberty desire
>>336123483
Tell me about it. There is literally no point whatsoever in colonising Americas for profit. The only thing you can try to achieve is limiting profit of European AI nations doing their colonies.
I remember how I've once played Dutch and ignored Americas entirely. Just getting La Plata, Manhattan, Panama and provinces of both side of Panama for ports and sending shitload of privatees there. Fuckload of profit without any colonisation on my side or bothering with anything.
Paying cash only to loose the province you've just colonised? That's retarded, especially since you have NO saying in that.
about colonial nations, something hilarious
if you start as a nation like say Ternate, which is right next to Australia, it STILL turns into a colonial nation after you colonize 5 provinces in the australia region
>>336124007
French did that.
English/British Caribbean did that.
Danes did that.
What the in-game system represents is in fact the Spanish way of handling things - absurdly large regions governed by a crown appointed guy to deal with everything. A system that gave Spain pennies out of the actual profit, while English, Dutch, French and even fucking Danes and Couronians were making a killing on their directly or tightly controlled colonies.
What the system lacks at this point are following elements:
- player decision if to make colonial nation
- player decision what provinces should constitute of the colonial nation (just like in case of client states)
- SMALLER regions for colonial nations, the current ones are just absurd and also ahistorical in many cases (removal of Guyenna was just fucking stupid, since now it's merged with Panama, Columbia and dozens of different provinces)
It's two years and the system still is rought, unpolished and badly implemented. Especially since there are client states that easly handle most of the issues.
Seriously, is it so fucking hard to put already existing script to manage CNs?
>>336124470
yeh and the Caribbean really REALLY should not be a fucking colonial region
that said if there were smaller colonial regions there should be the option to merge colonial governments to generate the large spanish ones and maybe give colonial provinces the option to spawn rebels early on that can generate a colonial nation
>>336124470
>- SMALLER regions for colonial nations
Fucking this!
Why can't I have situation a la real thirteen colonies, where you have bunch of small colonial charters, each governing small, selected area? Why can't I have it like French fort and trading posts, so in theory I control 1/4 of North America, but I still maintain relatively firm grip over the population and politics, since the area is only nominally controlled and actual power is concentrated within few strategic forts and cities.
Instead, I'm just making another blobs on the map, and those will be AI controlled.
>>336124778
I fucking hate how I can't do any real colonisation of Caribbeans without spawning CN. Why? I'm literally making few strategic ports and nothing else. Instead I'm creating some fucking ahistorical "nation" that governs the whole deal. Bonus points for AI lacking ANY ability to handle islands, so it always ends up as clusterfuck.
Or how CNs can't really colonise on their own over archipelago, so you still must colonise on your own, but then loose all the new isles to the CN
>>336123473
>Brittany taking bunch of colonies in Caribbean
Got worse. If Brittany stays afloat till 1530s, it usually cock-blocks French and English colonisation of North America, since they will start with Canada and northern bits of East Coast, forming colonial nations and absolutely wrecking colonisation in those two regions, as they lack resources to keep on going, while AI doesn't want to touch that clay at all after treaty is signed.
Unless I rush reformation or stage fall of Brittany, there is no way to prevent this, as it happens on consistent rate in my games.
I wonder about something. A purely theoretical question.
Say you start colonising. But instead of getting colonial nation you create client state before the event triggers. Now say the CS grows in size and starts colonising on it's own, getting 5 colonies and... what happens next? They create their own CN? They handle the CN to you? They can't get CN? They turn into CN?
EU4 is frustrating because the game is fundamentally designed on limiting the player instead of making the AI better.
Colonial nations and colonial changes are an example of this. Take freedom and riches away from the player in order to gimp the player. The player can accomplish less, and thus the game is ''more difficult'', without ever enhancing the AI.
>>336126984
>Paradox games
>Better AI
Pick one. Last time they've even tried to improve the AI was AGCEEP. And that was fan mod, with dozens of AI behavior files created to accomodate to new situations and triggers.
Then Vicky did direct percentage chance for AI to pick given option in event.
Those are the only improvements ever done in their games toward better AI.
