Dark Souls Lore
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is there a reason people say Grand Archives is Duke's Archives? Or is it just because its an archive with books.
Lore? There's no story. There is an intro and an ending. Aside from that you get little idiots saying shit about deliveries and that you have no soul.
No story.
>>336064358
There is a difference between lore and story. Saying it has no lore is retarded. You can call it bad lore though. I'd really rather just have my question answered if anybody even can.
>>336064203
Why the fuck would they say that? Lothric isn't anywhere near that place. People have poop for brains
>>336064203
Lothric High Wall is so far from Anor Londo.
But this archives can be based on Seath Archives.
The Crystal Sage make me thinking about this place anyways
>>336064203
>>336065551
The Grand Archives have their scholars worshiping Seathe so it's not too far a stretch that it might be the place. Plus, the Crystal Sage drops the Crystal scroll there.
so has irithyll always been under anor londo?
Is there anyway to pump a rum in her pickle pee?
>>336064203
The Duke's Archives are still in Anor Londo. You can see the building at the beginning of the webm.
>>336068676
Which one?
>>336069654
The one on the blue-ish cliff after Lothric wall.
I could be wrong though since it doesn't resemble the archives from DaS. After looking at DaS screenshots, I'm not sure anymore.
>Frampt wants you to link the fire
>Kaathe doesn't
>They almost definately share goals and desires and their very nature hints that they may be connected
The biggest Dark Souls mystery for me
>>336070790
have you ever read the Book of Job? It's like that
>>336070949
I know the gist
Satan and God don't have the same motives though do they?
what's happening when you "usurp" the flame?
>>336068028
>so has irithyll always been under anor londo?
No, they've always been the same place; it's just Gwyn is completely gone now, so no sun.
When Gwyn died he took his sunlight radiance with him: Gwyndolin was the only god left behind to pick up the pieces of civilization and rebuild the "Old Royalty" that Gwyn had initially founded.
Gwyndolin is of the moon he's a moon "goddess" and isn't capable of creating the breathtaking iridescents his father could so casually, so instead of constantly living a lie Gwyndolin full on established the aboreal valley and the kingdom of Irithyll as a snowy, constant-cresent-moon-stricken tundra land of ice and snow.
It's all the effects of Gwyndolin's influence and power as a god that causes Anor Londo to go from sunlight to snowy.
>>336071013
no, they don't
but they both act as manipulators, with the Humans caught in the middle like living chesspieces. Neither really cares about the well-being of the pawns, it's all about proving the other wrong
>>336070356
that's the building where you fight the giant tree
>2+ weeks after release
>people still think that the Deep is different from the Abyss
people like this need to take their medications before posting in lore threads
>>336071374
>people like this need to take their medications before posting in lore threads
You're going to have to explain your counter argument/reasoning before you go shit talking, chum.
I'm willing to humor the notion they're different simply on the basis that the abyss is heavily associated with humanity and the dark soul while the Deep is constantly referencing the ocean.
>>336071181
Well, unlike in Souls, God gave Job a lot more wealth than he had previously.
>>336071551
But my mystery is that they're conjoined, and they share interests. Frampt is decieving us into linking the flame, but Kaathe wants you not to. In the dark lord ending, though, loads of sneks worship you.
>>336071374
Also there are both deep gems are dark gems.
>>336071535
>>336071731
Deep gems and Dark gems both infuse weapons with Dark damage
The Deep tome and the Londor tome both illicit the same reaction from Irina -- they are "dark tales of things that lurk deep within the hearts of men"
the sorceries Deep Soul and Great Deep Soul inflict dark damage
>>336071551
>yo senpai I know that you're probably traumatized for life about that whole "your entire family just got murdered before your eyes and all your property was burned," but here, have some cash, that'll make up for it right???? :^)
old testament god was a dick
>>336071117
Based post, no (you)s, why am I surprised? Have mine anon.
>>336065551
>>336066075
>>336064203
I'm not 100% sure if the Grand Archives are the same archives, but it isn't outlandish to think that the Lothric/Grand Archives probably STOLE or otherwise raided/copied a number of the books and texts from Seath's original archives.
>>336071760
>>336071731
It's interesting you bring that up, because consider the following:
If the Deep and The Abyss were the same thing, then what would be the purpose of making the clear distinction between the various elemental gems? Do you follow me?
Ah, wait, here it is actually -thank you- I found the MOST IMPORTANT DEEP QUOTE, okay, so observe this with me:
The Dark Gem has the following quote, "A gem of infused titanite. Born of disembodied humanity." They're Dark Gems, born of disembodied humanity and thus abyss goodness. This is the Abyss Gem.
The DEEP Gem however has this to say, "There is a darkness that lies beyond human ken." It says it's a "Darkness that lies beyond humans" - The Deep is truly the deep, deepest, darkness- the kind that is of stagnation, the bedrock of the earth the Deep soul mentions.
I dunno, I dunno.
I think there's enough to go on to justify the deviation.
>>336072359
ken =/= kin
kin == humanity
ken == human knowledge and understanding
the quote "there is a darkness that lies beyond human ken," translated into more "everyday" speech, is "the truest extent of Darkness goes beyond your wildest dreams." which doesn't support either theory one way or the other, since that's a lore blurb that's been tossed around since DaS1
>>336072560
Fair enough, but you're not acknowledge the big important detail: They made a "distinction".
A distinction has been made- This can't be a simple matter of a translation error.
What's more the DEEP gem and the DARK gem don't even follow the same methidology of infusion in terms of what sort of coal they require to upgrade or alter weapons: The Profaned Coal is used to infuse dark, bleed and hollow gems.
The SAGE'S Coal on the other hand is used for Crystal, Blessed and DEEP Gems.
A line has been drawn in the sand between the deep and the dark. Not a BIG one, but perhaps one that is more in line with the difference between pyromancy and DEMON pryomancy/chaos??
>>336072359
While I think that that is an important quote, I think it's the description on the Soul of Aldrich says even more.
http://darksouls3.wiki.fextralife.com/Soul+of+Aldrich
"Soul of Aldrich,
One of the twisted souls, steeped in strength.
Use to acquire many souls, or transpose to extract its true strength.
When Aldrich ruminated on the fading of the fire, it inspired visions of a coming age of the deep sea.
He knew the path would be arduous, but he had no fear. He would devour the gods himself."
I think the Cathedral of the Deep worship the power of the Abyss in the form of a global, dark ocean.
My theory: Fire is not the only way to spawn life in the world, as we know now that there are entire ecosystems separate from the solar life-cycle on earth in the abyssal plain, maybe the age of deep is an age where life springs from the dark instead.
>>336072883
the Deep is what happens when you take the Abyss, and start doing sciency experiments and shit on it, to try and refine it into something more. Hence why the Deep is lumped in with sorcery and religious infusion -- it's the Abyss, as "refined" and studied by human minds.
Dark infusion is just
>what kind of Abyss you want senpai?
>just humanity my shit up
>say no more, say no more, I gotchu
>>336072897
Yes, Aldritch's soul I completely agree has the most important clue/piece of information: The Deep's association and tie in with the Ocean and it makes me think -and this will sound silly/goofy-
But what if like you said: What if The OCEAN itself or Water is another Elemental- one that has been patiently waiting to drown the world of fire and consume everything? Snakes and all?
>>336073185
>the Deep is what happens when you take the Abyss, and start doing sciency experiments and shit on it, to try and refine it into something more. Hence why the Deep is lumped in with sorcery and religious infusion -- it's the Abyss, as "refined" and studied by human minds.
I don't believe that for a moment simply on the basis of it being described as something beyond "Human Ken" as this kind anon pointed out: >>336072560
The Deep IS a kind of darkness beyond Human understanding, so there's no way The Deep is simply "applied" or "scienced" Abyss- that would be redundant.
The Second thing is: We have Abyssal/Dark Sorceries, Pyromancies and Miracles.
I think Dark souls 2 went to great lengths to demonstrate the lengths of which people went to understand, manipulate and weaponize the abyss as it's own school of magics: Hexes and so forth.
>>336073194
Just another personification of darkness imo. Nothing else in the narrative reinforces water or a different element taking over.
>>336073194
>Dark
darkness
>Deep
this isn't your average, everyday ordinary darkness! This, is ADVANCED darkness!
If the Deep really is the Abyss why didn't the Farron Abyss Watchers fucking destroy the cathedral thats within spitting distance?
Isn't they're entire purpose to find and fuck anything that could be related to the Abyss?
I'm much more inclined to believe that the Deep is horrible under the sea nightmares, Lothric is right next to a giant ocean anyway.
>>336074202
kind of hard to be killing Abyss creatures when
(A) you're lying dead in your graves, on account of becoming a Lord of Cinder
(B) you're consumed with Civil War because half of your members have sided with the Abyss
>>336074068
>this isn't your average, everyday ordinary darkness! This, is ADVANCED darkness!
A MEME THAT LIVES UNDER THE OCEAN.
YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST FOLKS.
>>336074202
>If the Deep really is the Abyss why didn't the Farron Abyss Watchers fucking destroy the cathedral thats within spitting distance?
This is also a really good fucking point.
The Abyss watchers had destroyed entire countries before, but the cathedral was left untouched.
>>336074202
Because the Abyss Watchers were from a different time than Aldrich. Keep in mind they all linked the flame and were suddenly brought back, all of them seeming to still be crazy except for Aldrich. The Abyss Watchers were all fucking killing themselves nonstop when you arrive, chances are they linked the flame before Aldrich and have no idea who he is.
>>336074401
They only attack the red eyed corrupted ones. The regular watchers always work together.
>>336075338
that doesn't change either of his points, though
>>336071838
Because it's just fanfiction based on nothing but asspulls.
That's Dark Souls lore in a nutshell I guess, though.
>last souls game
>DLC will explain nothing
>no one will ever know exactly what was going on in these games
>>336075674
>no one will ever know exactly what was going on in these games
You are an undead trying to Link the Fire/trying to end The Curse/Linking the Fire.
>>336075674
None of the games make sense until the DLC. Then they do. 3 will be no different.
>>336075554
The point is that the Abyss Watchers aren't crazy or at least most of them aren't.
>>336075674
>last souls game
>DLC will explain nothing
>no one will ever know exactly what was going on in these games
At this point piecing together what's going on is part of the gameplay in a souls game.
If you can't lore you're bad at dark souls.
>>336076019
the point is that the Abyss Watchers linked the flame before Aldrich even existed, and therefore they would have no knowledge of Deep shenanigans, on account of being dead.
Then, after they were revived, they were too busy fighting each other to bother doing their job, either as Lords of Cinder or as Abyss Watchers
>>336075674
Dark Souls is the story of a person coming into a place where he is not wanted and then mercilessly murdering all of the inhabitants.
>>336076184
>the point is that the Abyss Watchers linked the flame
Different Anon, but I still don't believe: Abyss Watchers & Aldritch a long with Lothric ever linked the flame.
I'm like 90% sure the title of lord of cinder has only to do with your potential or qualifications to link the fire or whatever.
If you've linked the fire before as with the case with Yhorm and Lautric the little lord- you are automatically a lord of cinder, but yeah.
Yeah, no, you get my drift.
>>336076707
anon pls stop this meme
>>336076707
Abyss Watchers probably linked the Fire, because they'd see it and go "Holy shit guys, this is how we stop the Abyss!" but no single one of them had a strong enough soul, so they all did it.
Yhorm did it because he felt it was his duty to do so and all that.
Aldrich is the odd one, but he was probably forced to do it by the Pontiff.
>>336077270
it's not that they didn't individually have strong enough souls, they all share a single, communal soul (like the Deacons)
>>336071838
Because it's bullshit and not true at all.
>>336075674
That's the point anon, you're might to make whatever up in your head with the little story/lore it does give. It's game that likes headcanon. Not that I agree with that, I think it has shit lore/story but that's what it's about.
>>336077453
they all have part of one, all taking part in "the blood of the wolf" be that Artorias or Sif or what the fuck ever. The point is that ALL of them linked the fire and that is wasn't just one of them.
The more I think of the basic story of DS3, the more I'm reminded of Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced.
>Characters like the world they're living in
>main character comes along and decides tough shit for them, he's putting the world back as it was.
Your old life sucked shit and I'm taking you back to it.
>>336076707
>I'm like 90% sure the title of lord of cinder has only to do with your potential or qualifications to link the fire or whatever.
God fuck off with this shit. Literally the only Lord that didn't link the fire is Lothric. What the fuck would "becoming a Lord of Cinder" mean otherwise? Not to mention Aldrich and Yhorm were DEAD from linking the fire at the beginning of the game
WHY IS THERE A PAINTING OF NASHANDRA AND THE IRON KING IN ANOR LONDO/IRYTHILL?
>>336064203
it can't possibly be the actual duke's archives. though it's highly possible it's full of books looted from it.
Geographically it's nowhere near where the Duke's Archives were in relation to Anor Londo, which can be used as an anchoring point for measuring things distance in relation to comparing Dark Souls 3 to Dark Souls.
>>336078241
>WHY IS THERE A PAINTING OF NASHANDRA AND THE IRON KING IN ANOR LONDO/IRYTHILL?
WHERE.
SCREENSHOTS.
NOW.
>>336078260
>it can't possibly be the actual duke's archives
According to what? Anor Londo existing where it does at all plays into their "worlds converging" asspull bullshit so there's no reason that the duke's archives couldn't have moved to where Lothric Castle is
>>336065551
>Seathe has a boner for crystal magic
>A crystal sage literally lives there
They probably just moved the books over to the new archives.
>>336077040
>>336077270
>>336078129
No, fuck you guys- it's a reasonable point of discourse.
The Prince Lothric hadn't linked any fires and in doing so set up a presidence- He planted the seed of fucking doubt with the significance of his inaction.
He still remained a "Lord of Cinder" despite adamantly not linking the fire establishing you can and do remain one regardless of you linking a fire or not.
Only Yhorm and Ludleth are specifically mentioned as linking the fire -the make a point to mention it-
No one else has such a distinction; which has given rise to my SUSPSISIONS, SO UNLESS I SEE OR READ A QUOTE SAYING OTHERWISE.
You're running on "IMPLICATIONS" and "ASSUMPTIONS" and it's already been fucking proven by Lothric you don't need to link a fire to be a fucking lord.
So get off my DICK.
>>336064203
>Big Hat Logan dies in the Dukes Archives.
>Ocerios said to spent a lot of time in Grand Archives
>Knows White Dragon Breath
>Has Logans staff
I dunno how he would have got Logan and Seath referances in some other Archive.
>>336078956
So what's one doing on the Road then?
>>336079135
Teaching Farron sorcerers about magics.
I think the Sage Ring has a good item descript for this
>>336079274
>trying to teach swamp people magic
Crystal Sages were dumb.
>>336078561
https://youtu.be/QwuFL2BKb_w?t=2973
>>336079434
Time stamp pretty please?
It's 3 hours long and I don't want to go fishing around.
>>336079135
It literally says in the Crystal sage soul.
>The twin Crystal Sages once served as spiritual guides to the scholars of the Grand Archives, and one went on to ally with the Undead Legion.
>>336079095
No it isn't. Prince Lothric not linking the fire is the whole conceit of the game - the other Lords have to be resurrected and converge to do what he refused to do, except they all decided to fuck off this time as well. Lothric is a lord of cinder because his bloodline tried to create the perfect child to link the fire. So he was powerful enough to do so but he never did.
Your headcanon makes no sense. What does "becoming a lord of cinder" mean if it doesn't mean linking the fire? Ludleth EXPLICITLY says that linking the fire makes one a lord of cinder, and the game states that Aldrich was forced to do it against his will.
So i'm just asking a question here but i'm curious, the monstrous hand freaks that you find near the Irythill Dungeons in DS3. Do their hand heads match Manus' freakish monster hand?
>>336079536
play the video you dummy
>Kingdom of Lothric and their enemy nation from Boreal Valley are literally just a few miles apart.
This is 2fort tier bullshit.
>>336079601
Weren't dragons the enemy?
>>336079549
>and one went on to ally with the Undead Legion.
For what reason?
>>336079571
Ludleth didn't fuck off.
Ornstein = Nameless king = firstborn of gwyn
cannot disprove
>>336079536
49:35
Heres my awful theory
Das2 takes place in a timeline where Chosen Undead didnt link the fire.
Aldrich speaks of the deep sea in his items. As the souls series goes on, water is progressivly rising, as seen as soon as artorias dlc with Oolacile having jack shit for water even when Darkroot has a huge river and lake.
In Das3, alot of the world is covered by water.
In DaS2, which obviously takes place before DaS3 but at the same time is contradicted, one of the themes is water. The gaints are basically vikings, with huge ships that are built for launching an assualt from the sea. Castles are completely buried in water, and pirates are said to rule the sea. The abyss areas all take place in caves that are filled with water that seems to have no bottom. Underwater cave pockets, perhaps?
The reason why das2 cant exist in the same timeline is because of this. In das2, most of the places like carim, thouroland, vinheim, etc, are long forgotten. No one remembers anything about them. But in DaS3, which takes place after DaS2 would, as refrenced by a dead gilligan/shield of want/etc, all these old places are still around.
Either DaS3 is pulling some "lelele le land is distorted with heroes centerius old phasing in and out :^^^^^^^)" bullshit as Solaire put it, or DaS2 takes place in an alternate timeline where choosen undead didn't link the fire and lordran is all but destroyed from the age of dark.
>>336079571
>Your headcanon makes no sense. What does "becoming a lord of cinder" mean if it doesn't mean linking the fire?
That you have the 'potential' to link the fire- I've said it like a million times dude.
> and the game states that Aldrich was forced to do it against his will.
Can you cite this? I'm not being sassy- I'll gladly accept evidence to counter my thingy.
Are you referring to what the deserter Hawkwood said? Because I don't believe that explicitly stats Aldritch linking the fire:
"A right and proper cleric, only, he developed a habit of devouring men.
He ate so many that he bloated like a drowned pig, then softened into sludge,
so they stuck him in the Cathedral of the Deep.
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might."
They way he says it, it sounds like they "appointed" aldritch a lord of cinder not because of his actions or personality but because of the splendor of his soul and his power.
>>336079745
Well Seathe hated the abyss or was interested in it so probably something to do with that.
I think it's just the threat of the abyss that makes people hate it.
>>336079781
Besides Ornstein's armor saying Ornstein served Gwyn's firstborn.
>>336079781
Oldstein died in 2.
>>336079745
To train Farron sorcerers
Crystal hail
>In a pact said to have been formed long ago, one of the Sages allied with the Undead Legion in order to train the sorcerers of Farron.
>>336073194
the deep seems associated with the dark, maybe what aldrich saw wasnt the deep sea, but the abyss
>>336079573
And on top of that if it is true would you think of it as the cult trying to recreate Manus in some horrid way?
>>336079903
Not canoncially.
You dont have to fight Old Dragonslayer, who likely isnt even Ornstien
>>336079896
>I think it's just the threat of the abyss that makes people hate it.
True, Manus did fuck up Oolacile and its magics.
>>336079918
I guess they just wanted anyone who could cast.
>>336079902
I remember back when DaS1 was out some fags tried to say Ornstein was the true Fristborn because his broken statue had the dragonslayer spear.
Back then I just mocked them, but hell they where close.
>>336080048
HE DROPS THE OLD LEO RING
STOP TRYING TO DENY FACTS
And even if, nigga was clearly corrupted by the abyss.
He wasn't having anything with the family and vise versa.
>>336075984
tell that to bloodborne
inb4 not a souls game
>>336078561
shit
I dunno, maybe just a reference?
though I doubt it
>>336079902
Then why does the sunlight altar depict ornstein, when gwyn's firstborn is the heir to sunlight?
>>336079095
You mean a precedent? Lothric isn't a Lord of Cinder, he's just a Lord (i.e. a powerful soul). He was destined to a be a Lord of Cinder but never linked the fire, which is why his throne is in Firelink
The Profaned flame is the chaos flame
Anor Londo, Elum Loyce and Irythill are the same place
I don't think it is the same building as Dukes. But I think it contains the same books as Dukes and the curse over the books is because they are moved from their original place.
HOW MUCH LONGER TILL VAATI VIDYA COMES OUT WITH A FUCKING LORE VIDEO
>>336078241
>WHY IS THERE A PAINTING OF NASHANDRA AND THE IRON KING IN ANOR LONDO/IRYTHILL?
>>336079434
>https://youtu.be/QwuFL2BKb_w?t=2973 [Embed]
>>336079797
>49:35
Thank you, jeeeez.
I see the painting of Nashandra -which is odd- but I don't see the iron king painting?
Is it true that the 'secret' ending reveals that not lighting the bonfire and letting it disperse and ending the cycle of reigniting the sun/universe, it just means now that eventually, a new fire will appear.
In Dark Souls 1, the old woman tells the story that before the universe/world began, it was a grey place where not much happens, and is full of 'Gigantic Trees and Everlasting Dragons'.
Which never made sense to me.
Why would the 'beginning of the universe' have dragons and trees in it? that is a universe, just a bit of a shit one.
It's because the trees are giants that go into stasis on death (they're everywhere in the last 2 games), and they and the dragons are just two races created by the sudden creation of a new great flame.
Each of them likely discovered how to cycle the fire forever, and eventually one of the chosen undead or embers that rose instinctively to reignite the fire decides enough is enough and ends it, as you do in DS3.
But that doesn't end the world.
It's like a fire in a great forest. It IS a fire in a great forest. When it's lit and roaring, your eyes adjust, making everything darker that isn't near the fire. The grey night with its tiny lights in the sky are so much more visible when the fire fades.
But inevitably the next day, the sun rises again, as it will in the next aeon in Dark Souls.
By ending the cycle, allows the beginning of a new one; like a game set in a Big-Bounce universe.
>>336080194
>tell that to bloodborne
What did you mean by this?
>>336079873
>"A right and proper cleric, only, he developed a habit of devouring men.
He ate so many that he bloated like a drowned pig, then softened into sludge,
so they stuck him in the Cathedral of the Deep.
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might."
See this is what made no sense to me. Can the Kiln be accessed from any Bonfire? If they locked him away, wouldnt he not he able to access the flame to link it?
>>336080194
That applies to Bloodborne too, my man.
>>336080219
you are joking, its the fuckin firstobrns spear
>>336064203
>people
Retards you mean?
Not everything from DS2 and 3 are the same from DS1.
>>336079896
Seath, as a dragon, was probably neutral to the Abyss. That shit only concerns people who interacted with the First Flame.
>>336080219
Kek this niggers are still alive.
>>336079873
>They way he says it, it sounds like they "appointed" aldritch a lord of cinder
No it doesn't, it sounds like they locked up him and forced him to link the fire. But yea, I suppose it's a total coincidence that he revived along with the other lords that linked the first
>>336080516
>That shit only concerns people who interacted with the First Flame.
Not really.
Abyss is a black hole not stopping until it can't suck up anything else.
>>336080192
The giant on the tower drops the Hawk ring, but he sure as hell ain't Hawkeye Gough.
Rings change hands with apt regularity in the Dark Souls universe.
>>336080238
Why is he needed in the ritual then?
>>336080465
r u sure
>>336080368
We haven't figured out enough of it for him yet.
>>336080382
it's not a picture of him, it's a picture of his throne in the brume tower.
>>336080730
Im sick of seeing this complaint.
If you want someone to credit you, throw on a fucking tripcode.
>>336080708
>dad has a cool weapon
>i want one too
>>A dragon hunting weapon from the age of the gods. The earliest form of the cross spear, serving as both a sword and a spear.
>>Its owner wasthe Nameless King, a deific hunter of dragons. The swordspear is imbued with lightning, of which he was the heir.
>>336080898
Redgrave had a giant essay with his name on it.
>>336080730
I been wonder, which one was the guy who recently was exposed for stealing shit?
Vaati or EpicNameBro?
>>336080194
TOH answered some questions but gave us even more obscure shit, so you're probably right.
>>336080484
Teach me, Loremaster.
I could give a shit if it is or isn't the Duke's Archives, it's Reused Assets: The Game.
>Inafune
>Kamiya
>Miyamoto
>Miyazaki
>Nomura
>Obsidian
>Polacks
I wonder who'll get on the list of one hit wonders next?
>>336080630
But why isn't The Old Dragon Slayer Oldstein then?
Who is he?
It just doesn't make sense to look at it as a new person.
>>336080516
>Seath, as a dragon, was probably neutral to the Abyss.
He stole Manus' pendant, and imprisoned Oocliciale however you spell her name.
I think he had some relation to the abyss.
>>336081029
Vaati, which is why that was said in regards to Vaati.
>>336080986
this is the nameless king's spear
the statue depicts ornstein's spear
unless, of course, you are implying that the nameless king discarded his old dragon hunting gear in favor of his new spear and armor, I don't see your point :DD
>>336064358
>I can't be spoonfed by wiki or Vaati yet so there is no story
>>336068460
we need more lewd pickle pee pump a rum
>>336080685
Because he's a lord. The same reason the player character is needed despite not having previously linked the fire. The chronology, which is clearly stated, is
>lords link the fire in some order (alone), and become kindling as a result - obtaining the title of "Lord of Cinder"
>Lothric is next in line to link the flame, but decides not to
>the Lords of Cinder are awakened to link the fire in his stead, but because their souls have already been used as kindling they are far weaker and therefore the flame requires more than one
>they bail for some reason
>undead are awakened in order to seek out the lords, bring them together and link the fire
Lothric is needed for the ritual because he was specifically engineered to be powerful enough to link the fire, but for some reason was cursed and decided to end the cycle.
Yhorm is the cursed undead.
prove me wrong, protip: you can't.
>>336081241
Yhorm is weak to stormruler
CU isn't
Status: rekt
>>336081067
It's the Dark Souls equivalent of cosplay.
You mean to tell me you've never donned Artorias's gear and pretended to be the legend even once?
>>336081310
savage, man. you didn't even give him a chance
>>336081067
Because the Old Dragonslayers armor is darker and he uses dark instead of lightning.
Hes likely just some Copy cat.
>>336080396
Dark souls 1 makes it relatively clear that the beginning of the universe is more like the beginning of recorded time.
Like how there were 'hollows' already around to harness the first flame. And the world was formed but different.
>>336064203
would anyone gift me a ring of Favor?
>>336081382
THAT'S EVEN LESS LIKELY AND ABSURD
PLEASE TELL ME YOU'RE JUST FUNPOSTING
>>336081478
Why not just kill some crocs, steve.
>>336081478
just get the +1 version, its easier desu
>>336081049
>>336081049
>it's Reused Assets: The Game.
Well, that is true.
But the same can be said about countless others game series. Do you really think they would make the third game of a series and waste time making everything from scratch again?
>>336081230
Are we sure Ashen one isnt a Lord of Cinder?
We too were awoken by the Bell, and we know only Lords of cinder were (Hawkwood was awoken too, but he was an abyss watcher)
It never gives us any insight in our background, but Champs soul says something like he was defeated by a warrior or something.
Dark firelink has a lot of hints at it being in the past, which would make us likely that warrior that beat Champ. Which is also why Iudex Gundyr wouldnt have a soul.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FsiX_xkjuQ
Who needs Vaati when Killan Experience releases an unexplicably good lore video
>>336078885
That is far less likely than it being the surviving piece of architecture of what was Anor Londo after the last bonfire was lit, by YOU in Dark Souls 1, which is why the Soul of Cinder is wearing a really fucked-up by heat over time of the default Elite Knight armour of the chosen undead from 1, who linked the last fire by killing Gwyn and all the other lords.
In the end, the chosen undead was just a mindless vessel for those lord souls to unite and reignite the fire.
Then the humans, which are now the majority of living creatures in the world, set about building all their various kingdoms and citadels, as they do, and have been doing each cycle, because each one of them holds the Dark Soul still, even though the other 3 lords souls are trapped in one place, being used to provide an endless cycle of fuel for their fire.
It's about humans conquering the world because they don't have a soul that can be captured by killing just one thing like with Gwyn and the others.
Theirs is spread out, everlasting.
>>336079095
>>336079571
>>336079873
>>336080426
Sorry for linking so many comments, but that got me thinking. Lord of cinder could be both a distorted version of the lord souls, but also a sign of how all the souls have sort of merged together. There are fragments of gwyn in each of the lords of cinder now because of how everyone who linked the flame has been using them.
After all, we thought we needed the lord souls to link the first flame, but only one of them ever really did that. We didnt though, we just needed gwyn.The lordvessel bullshit was to make sure we burnt more fuel than what we'd get from gwyns husk.
>>336081890
Not that guy, I honestly don't think it's important that it's the same archives. The important thing is the knowledge was re-assumed.
>>336081345
>>336081310
towards the end of Das2, the CU has the giant's kinship and many giant souls in his possession.
maybe he mutated into a a giant but kept his human skull.
Giants Kinship description:
>Each King has his rightful throne.
>And when he sits upon it, he sees what he chooses to see.
>Or perhaps, it is the throne, which shows the king only what he wants.
>The flames roar, but will soon begin to fade, and only a worthy heir might burnish their light. What is it, truly, a claimant of the throne could desire?
>>336064203
Anor londo is the only place in the game where 'lands converge' is actually the intact land (firelink shrine has been through some shit).
every other place is skewed and twisted through the process.
With the Crystal Sages being the re-embodiment of Logan's thirst for knowledge and his crystal madness, it's safe to assume that the grand archives with the crystal scroll is the converged Duke's Archive.
Just like it's safe to assume that the High Wall is the converged Undead Burg;
-Guarded by a dragon
-high above a lower location with burning pyres
-Has the same feel as a starting location, compared to DaS2's forest area
>>336081067
It's just another undead.
Or if you'd rather go for a more meta but less likely to be true explanation. It's a chosen undead that killed ornstein but never quite moved on to doing the rest of the shit.
>>336080219
It's not Ornstein at all. Ornstein has his spear, yes, possibly given to Ornstein by the person we KNOW is the statue: Gwyn's banished Son; the Nameless heir to Gwyn's kingdom.
>>336081049
>bitter dumb neo/v/ scum: the post
>>336082115
Those are a different type of giant. It's amazing that people still aren't realizing this. Lordran's giants are like Gough, the blacksmith, and Yhorm. They have faces. They're just like large people.
Drangleic's giants are like treants. They have tree hollow faces, and turn into trees when they die.
>>336080048
not this fucking shit again
ornstein died in 1, the one in 2 is also supposed to be the real one, its stupid, but it is what it is
REMINDER THAT WE HAVE NEVER ACTUALLY FOUGHT ORNSTIEN AND HE WOULD PROBABLY WRECK US EASILY
>>336068460
>Crowgirl drawn as a shitty monstergirl musume ripoff
>In a universe where Ornifex exists
Disgusting
>>336081640
>Are we sure Ashen one isnt a Lord of Cinder
No one is sure of anything, but it wouldn't make much sense. Your character is specifically stated to be "unkindled", and the Firekeeper says you are a vessel for souls that must be acquired to link the fire. If you were a lord you would probably just be sitting on the throne with Ludleth
>We too were awoken by the Bell
As an undead; that's what Iudex Gundyr is for. Iudex means judge, and Gundyr's armor says:
>Gundyr, or the Belated Champion, was bested by an unknown warrior. He then became sheath to a coiled sword in the hopes that someday, the first flame would be linked once more
So it follows that he's the gatekeeper for undead to see if they are powerful enough to link the fire (or in this case, to see the lords that are required to link the fire).
>>336082227
Dude shut the fuck up. Yhorm is clearly supposed to be a DS2 Giant. Him having a face is an oversight.
>>336082268
Ornstien never died in 1. It literally says in Smoughs armor that he left before CU showed up.
Ornstien in 1 was a Gwyn illusion.
>>336082182
>a person with
>the same title
>same ring
>same body but larger
>same moveset
>same weapon
>in a place very similar to AL
>>Nah can't be him
>It's a cosplayer
>it's a copy-cat
>It's a CU that killed him but for some mysterious reason just stopped his journey
alright /v/ you win.
>>336082227
>Lordran's giants are like Gough, the blacksmith, and Yhorm. They have faces.
Do they though? As far as I remember only Yhorm does not wear a mask.
>>336082345
>i have never seen a chain coif in my life
You see his face light up during the Siegward cutscene, and his skull has a face. It's not an oversight. Especially when both types of giants are in DaS3.
>>336082371
Or he died and came back like every other character does.
>>336082268
>ornstein died in 1
lol
>>336081640
Ashen one is't a lord of cinder, they're unkindled and they can't lit the fire by themselves, that's why we go around getting those cinders from those who can.
>>336081912
You needed more than Gwyn. Think about an actual fire and how it works. You can burn the kindling, which turns into charcoal. You can burn the charcoal, but then you're left with dust. Gwyn's soul was mostly consumed when he linked the fire, but the souls of Seath/4Kings/Nito/Witch were not. So they were needed to link the fire.
Same thing in DaS3 really, although the game suggests that the cycle is recurring more often and that linking the first is having less and less effect than it once did.
>>336081912
>After all, we thought we needed the lord souls to link the first flame, but only one of them ever really did that. We didnt though, we just needed gwyn.The lordvessel bullshit was to make sure we burnt more fuel than what we'd get from gwyns husk.
It's sort of stated on and off in the souls series, but sufficiently grand individuals can have their souls emulate their persona and personality and so forth making unique souls specific to them.
The Lord souls weren't special in that you need them because they were the "Lord Souls"- you needed them because like you said: they were the biggest souls currently KNOWN around at the time and therefor the most convenient to use.
They WANT the Lord souls again like you mention so that they may extend the age of fire even further since the more souls/humanity/whatever you have to burn in the flame the longer the age lasts.
Gwyn burned himself and only himself and his age of flame barely any time at all.
>>336081640
If we go by the linking the fire definition. Any character you finish the game with is a lord of cinder.Not sure about the different endings
If we go by potential to link the flame, you are a potential lord of cinder until you possess the souls of the other lords. At which point you are also a lord of cinder.
>>336082416
Why does he have dark magics?
I've always wondered that.
>>336082371
It doesn't "literally" say anything like that.
>>336082451
Gough was blinded, which should mean he has a face. Even if not, they're clearly different types of giants.
>>336081180
probably that, or gwyn took it when he banished him. there is not enough info but eh it sounds plausible. i doubt ornstein was a lord. why would he be the captain of the first borns
his armor even mentions :
>Golden (piece name) associated with Dragonslayer Ornstein, from the age of gods, and imbued with the strength of lightning.
In the dragonless age, this knight, who long guarded the ruined cathedral, left the land in search oftheir nameless king.
also :
considering Miyazaki also confimed that the God of War did not make an appearance in Dark Souls I.
He could very well be the first Knight of the Sun, and the Nameless King's favorite disciple. It does say on the Sunlight Medal description in DS that Gwyn's firstborn keeps a close eye on his Sunlight Warriors.
>>336081180
It wasn't Ornstein's spear first.
It was given to him.
He was a servant of the king, after all, and a friend to his son.
When banished, he left it with him to side with the dragons, and when he did, he got a new spear altogether. One that wasn't given to him by his father; a reminder of the man who banished him and cast down every image of him.
>>336064203
Need some help with Dragonslayers armor, anyone up?
Pass is RAGE
>>336082672
PLATFORM, LEVEL?
>>336082508
So why doesnt Ludleth just rekindle the fire? He is for it, knowing he will die again in the ritual.
I think all of the Lords of cinder needed the other 4.
>>336082774
Level doesn't matter if you're using a password.
>>336082609
Sidenote the nameless king is Faram from Das2
>The Nameless King, Gwyn's Firstborn, is Faraam, the god of war from Forossa, and the lion people from the Shaded Woods in DS2 worship him to Also, the Lion Knights of Forossa may have been Sunbros, and they built the Sunlight Altar you find in Harvest Valley while they were fighting for Drangleic.
Speaking of lore, I want dark drift so I'm continuing Yuria's quest but at the same time I don't like the hollowed look, is there a way to make me look human without healing the dark sigil?
>>336082791
Because he already did it once and his soul isn't strong enough anymore
>>336082560
Well actually, we never Link the flame. We try to and cant, hense why the moon stays a Darksign.
>>336082839
Buy the ring Yuria sells.
>>336082839
Yuria sells a ring that makes you look normal.
>>336082774
just outside of his door
>>336065551
>>336064203
both are literally right up the hill from Anor Londo
not sure how it doesn't stand to reason that Lothric could be where the Duke's was
>>336082464
I'm telling you if he had a face he wouldn't explicitly be called a giant. DS1 Giants don't have faces either, ever notice how they all have masks?
>>336082574
His body is larger too.
My best guess is either he tried to take on the Abyss and suffered the same fate as Arty. And then went to a place similar to AL to die.
Or some nefarious person brought him back to serve a purpose and again he wandered back to a familiar place.
>>336082791
Have you seen the state Ludleth is in? The guy can't even walk
>>336082870
Thats what I mean, all of them have done it, and likely dont have the strength to do it again. They all needed the other 4 to light it.
is it true that dark firelink is in the past?
I read that if you don't ever talk to the handmaiden in the normal shrine and you talk to the one in dark firelink the normal one will recognize you when you talk to her.
>>336082839
Buy the ring OR buy a purging stone
>>336083000
Its not like you cant force someone to link itAldrich
Or are you saying some of the LoC didnt link it?
>>336082961
And what about Hawkeye Gough, who has fucking eyes?
And why can Lordran giants speak, but Drangleic giants just fucking howl?
And why do Drangleic giants turn into trees when they die, but Lordran giants don't?
Because they're not the same kind of giants you dense motherfucker.
>>336082774
>>336082672
im on PC btw
>>336083071
Yeah, she gets a unique dialogue line if you do that.
>>336083103
Aldrich certainly didn't link it, Hawkwood says that he got the title by right and not by "virtue of linking the flame"
Unless Pontiff Sulyvahn forced him to do it, the absolute madman
>>336082672
God, I helped so many people fight that guy by now.
He is nice to farm some souls and its a fun boss battle.
>>336083328
>Hawkwood says that he got the title by right and not by "virtue of linking the flame"
He literally does not say that.
>>336083328
*by might
>>336083108
THEN WHY DID THEY MAKE IT A POINT TO CLARIFY HIM AS OLD.
BESIDES HIM AND GWYN THEY NEVER TOUCHED ON ORNSTEINS DRAGON SLAYER BUDDIES.
SO DID THE ABYSS JUST REANIMATE HIS ARMOR OR SOMETHING?
>>336083108
>And what about Hawkeye Gough, who has fucking eyes?
>And why can Lordran giants speak, but Drangleic giants just fucking howl?
>And why do Drangleic giants turn into trees when they die, but Lordran giants don't?
>Because they're not the same kind of giants you dense motherfucker.
Drangleic are "Hollowed" Giants- it's just how they go through hollowing.
They develop the darksign on their face, they become twisted and emaciated and eventually they truly for reals die and turn into trees.
Giants are descended from the huge fucking elder trees that support the world of dark souls and existed since the time of dragons and grey.
Humans came from the Pygmy.
Giants came from the trees.
>>336082416
>That guy in the dragonslayers armor who also has his ring because he killed him.
>Same moveset is because same weapon.
The similarity in locations isn't very strong either. But then we get to see so little of it.
But well, you could be right. At first I thought it was him, and I might as well just be wrong and not see it because of all the other people.
There's just one issue I have with that theory. The dark instead of lightning on his attacks.
We know that the knights of gwyn were of the gods. But gods weren't imbued with fragments of the dark soul.
If there's anything wrong in that assumption, then its probably ornstein reincarnated or something.
>>336083440
I meant to quote this guy, sorry >>336082950
>>336064203
>trailer for Das 3 says all will be revealed
What was exactly revealed in 3 that wasn't in 1?
If anything it added more unanswered questions like Ornstein apparently not dying from Chosen Undead and Smough being an honorary knight.
who convinced the princes to not link the fire?
The serpents or Aldia?or both?
Assuming untended graves is the future without the flame... What is the best ending -- link the fire or usurp the flame?
>>336083570
The Serpents, Aldia is nowhere to be seen in the story
>>336083412
He literally does say that he got the title soley by might.
>>336081701
he doesn't know why the Abyss watchers were killing each other.
They vowed to pledge their soul; the cinder soul split amongst them from drinking wolf's blood.
Essentially Sif's soul feels it's his duty to be cinder for the fire, he is Artorias' wolf and it's clear from Dark Souls 1 it's a dutiful beast.
So they're killing each other to pile the many fragment's of Sif's cinder-worthy soul into one place, then have it fight anyone who comes in to claim it - the best deciding mechanism anyone in Dark Souls has made to see if someone's worthy of actually -having- the soul to reignite the fire.
>>336083536
>Hollows have the mental capacity to sail to another country for revenge and wage organized warfare
Okay buddy
>>336083638
Aldia is mentioned by name in the Japanese version
>>336083328
Hawkwood meant that Aldrich didn't have to go on a little lord slaying adventure to link a fire, he was already a giant fucking soul bank from eating all those people.
>>336083582
Lord of Hollows
>>336083582
Untended Graves is the distant past.
But the best ending is the Usurpation of Fire, linking it you are probably giving the world a few centuries more at best, it's clear that the Flame can't go on much longer.
>>336083648
Yea, as opposed to doing it for the good of the world, he was either forced to do it because he was powerful, or did it because he thought it would make him more powerful.
Not sure how the fuck you got "he certainly didn't link it" out of that line
>>336082878
Now that's hilarious.
>>336064203
Can undead become pregnant?
They still bleed and there's lot of dung in the game
>>336082672
Anyone?
>>336083638
the game says that a SCHOLAR convinced them tho.
>>336083908
They're still dead m8, not sure how they can create life
>>336075674
Miyazaki created the souls games based off of his experience as a non-native english speaker reading english choose your own adventure books and not understanding half of what was going on.
There will never be an explanation.
>>336084012
>they are dead
Yes but their organs still seem to function and they still die from massive trauma
>>336083731
>Hollows have the mental capacity to sail to another country for revenge and wage organized warfare
>Okay buddy
Giant's have horrifically indomitable wills; it was even clearly stated by one npc in a Giant's memory that they had fought the giants for over 4 generations because they simply would not give up.
Giants don't lose their sanity or sense of purpose when they hollow because they don't fucking hollow the same way people do.
When they've finally had enough they truly "die" and turn into trees.
>>336083793
Well the fact they say they locked him in a room and made him a Lord of Cinder.
Who locked him in the room? Worshippers of the deep? Pontiff?
Anyone close to Aldrich DID NOT WANT THE FIRE LINKED. They wanted what Aldrich saw in his prophetic dreams, the Age of the Deep sea, which they thought followed the Age of fire.
How exactly did Aldrich link a fire when he was locked up? Thats like saying we could Link the fire from Undead Asylum in DS1
>>336083542
>then its probably ornstein reincarnated or something.
I could settle on that as I said earlier.
I think it's just too clear which is unusual for Souls which I can kind of see people assuming absurd before logical first.
Or even simpler could have just been fan-service.
Who fucking knows with FROM.
>>336084178
>Giants don't lose their sanity or sense of purpose when they hollow because they don't fucking hollow the same way people do.
>When they've finally had enough they truly "die" and turn into trees.
All this headcanon when it just makes more sense that there's more than one race called giants because they both happen to be huge as fuck.
>>336084187
>Well the fact they say they locked him in a room
They never say that either. Hawkwood only says that they "stuck" him in the cathedral
>>336084338
Either way, the point is why would Aldrich link the fire when his Dreams came before He was made a Lord of Cinder? He wanted the age of dark, just like Lothric did.
>>336084450
He was forced to link it
>>336084193
As long as it doesn't blatantly contradict anything, I don't think it really matters what you prefer to think of something as. It's equally valid as any of the other shit.
If your version is less retarded, it just makes a better story than what the other guy is telling.
>>336082182
It's Ornstein on his way from Anor Londo to go seek the Nameless King, and before you mention Archdrake's peak being just a hop and a skip from "Anor Londo" remember that the orientation and layout of Lothric is nothing like it's original state and is a result of the world converging on it.
>>336064203
>is there a reason people say Grand Archives is Duke's Archives?
yeah, coz Anor Londo is Anor Londo and Ithryall Dungeon is Latria and Firelink is Firelink is Nexus and skelly rolly ball is Sen's Fortress and Patches is Patches and blacksmith is blacksmith and ass-fucking bosses with toothpicks is ass-fucking bosses with toothpicks and intangible level geometry for enemies is intangible level geometry for enemies and Magneto attack tracking for enemies is Magneto attack tracking for enemies and...
Why were the Basilisks in Farron's Keep pushed off to one tiny corner?
Did they get bullied by the Bloodborne crew or something?
Or did FS just have a bigger plan for them and forget to follow through?
>>336084495
By who? Who forced him to link it? Pontiff and them are still alive.
Also where does it say they forced him to link it?
>>336084450
Because he either was forced to or because he thought it would make him more powerful
>>336071257
No it's not. You can't see Irithyll from Undead Settlement because it's underground.
>>336084506
How does dranglaic even fit into dark souls 3?
Geographically speaking.
There's mentions of some of the dark souls 2 stuff but most of the locations and cultures just seem like more from dark souls 1.
>>336084625
He's a lord of cinder, which means he linked it. It doesn't say that he was forced to, but considering you just said he didn't do it on his own volition that's the only logical conclusion
>>336084632
Literally every description about the Deep is the opposite of this statement.
Aldrich believed he would be a god, similer to gwyn if the fire went out. He would offer protecton to any of his worshippers.
>>336084785
Then he was forced to do it. Are you intentionally being retarded?
>>336084582
I figured they just liked living in the bumfuck slowest segment of the swamp.
Now why they're in that one corridor in the demon ruins is a fucking mystery.
Maybe they're just dark souls version of pests.
>>336084741
Is there an actual description that says a Lord of Cinder is someone who linked the fire or is this just some agreed upon assumption?
Because a lot of what is said about these Lords of cinders contridicts everything we known befor3 about Linking the fire.
>>336084327
>All this headcanon when it just makes more sense that there's more than one race called giants because they both happen to be huge as fuck.
They went to a lot of trouble to make Yhorm look the way he does.
They could have done a million fucking things with him, but they purposefully made his head/face sunken into his chain-cowl, etc.. thingy.
Yes. I fucking know he still has his face- you can clearly see it in there; the point is though it's so dark, hidden and in his trailer and statue/figurine it looks very much like it's sunken in.
I dunno what the fuck to tell you.
It's an obvious tie in.
>>336084854
Again, by who?
Anyone close to Aldrich wanted the deep too.
And the fact Pontiff and the Archdeacons are all still alive tells me anyone who put up a fight, ended up dying.
>>336080708
>>336081180
Sunlight Alter depicts a spear unlike Nameless King's or Ornstein's actually. Someone re-meshed the broken statue from Dark Souls, doesn't look like either.
not lore related but
>crystal sage
>every fucking summon is some fucking retard archer who literally sits there as a giant fucking soul spear sodomizes his tight boypussy
granted I'm not good enough to just do the fight myself but come the fuck on
>>336084908
>The cockroaches of DS
It fits, yeah I'll go with that.
>>336075674
which is completely intentional and supposed to add to the mysticism
>>336084909
Ludleth says it, and the entire game is predicated on the Lords of Cinder having previously linked the fire with the exception of Lothric. I'd recommend reading the fucking thread because this was discussed already and I doubt anyone feels like repeating themselves.
>contridicts everything we known befor3 about Linking the fire
It doesn't contradict shit. Lords are needed to link the fire. Lords who link the fire are known as Lords of Cinder. Same shit as in DaS minus the title
I just noticed that Lothric's throne in firelink shrine is literally the throne of want from DS2.
>>336084909
It's a title. Most people favor it as being someone who can and has linked the fire. Lothic being the exception.
Might just be a ceremonial title for those that possess fragments of the soul of gwyn, since it is his title.Same as how abyss watchers all also have a fragment of artorias in them.
pic related was just added to dlc as a dark spirit npc invader
give him a name and what does he drop?
>>336084625
Let's go by Hawkwood dialogue line by line
>A right and proper cleric, only, he developed a habit of devouring men.
>He ate so many that he bloated like a drowned pig, then softened into sludge,
It's clear here he got his form before becoming a LoC.
>so they stuck him in the Cathedral of the Deep.
>And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might.
Now this part is where it gets complicated, it could have been the other clerics inside the cathedral(back when it was normal) who made him LoC in some attempt to kill Aldrich before he grew too powerful or his own followers made him do it so he could achieve "proper" godhood.
In some way or another he did link it, of all 5 Lords in the game only Lothric was the one who didn't link it.
>>336065551
>DS1
>Can see Duke's estate from Anor Londo
>DS3
>End up in Anor Londo
>Can see Lothic Castle
>King of said castle went crazy with crystal dragon research
Probably completely unrelated. Pontiff moved Anor Londo with his third eye that we'll get in the DLC
So they probably just moved the whole Londo city then.
>>336084854
>>336084632
Different Anon, but the idea that Aldritch was forced or tricked into linking the flame is pathetically fucking stupid:
-Don't you think something important like forcing a lord of cinder to light a flame would be documented? Some Stories? Maybe someone telling how difficult it was to do? There's no mention of it- none.
-How even would he do it for that matter? He has no fucking limbs.
Aldritch didn't link a fire.
He's selfish, he eats people, he wallows in the suffering of others- he was going to eat the gods, the very people who want most the cycle of fire to continue.
>>336085156
He doesn't say it. Nobody says it.
the lore master has spoken
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz8KJYpRh28
>>336083582
Untended Graves is the real thing, just like Abandoned Old Workshop in Bloodborne. It's the one version that's actually connected to the world. Think about that.
>>336085524
People complain about the distance, completely ignoring that it's on the same hill in the exact same direction. Isn't it just more reasonable that they retconned the distance?
>>336084684
Devs said before that Drangleic was on the opposite end of the planet from Lordran. Probably wasn't even able to converge.
>>336085564
Fuck you.
> I linked the fire long ago, becoming a Lord of Cinder
He wasn't a Lord of Cinder, then he linked the fire, then he was a Lord of Cinder. This is not a difficult concept
>>336085056
That is beyond retarded. I remember helping a few people out for that boss. No one used a bow at all.
That said, after I was able to take out the old demon king without getting hit at all with just a +4 composite bow I figure it could be useful on some solo runs.
>>336085685
And maybe there are different ways to become lord of cinder.
Is there a lore reason why there is a Drang Knight invasion after Pontiff? Did survivors of Drangleic pledge allegience to Aldrich or something? Do they have something to do with his Age of Deep Sea vision?
There's specifically item text that says that Yhorm linked the fire, but really, are you just that upset to think that Aldrich linked the fire at some point?
>>336085671
Citation needed. First Flame never moves, so for it to be in DaS and DaSII, Drangleic and Lordran need to overlap.
>>336085790
That you're completely pulling out of your ass. You can think that if you want, but you have no argument in favor of it. Same as this retard >>336085562
As if having limbs is a requirement to link the fire for some reason (Aldrich has arms anyways any you have no idea what he looked like when he linked the fire however long ago)
>>336085029
>And the fact Pontiff and the Archdeacons are all still alive tells me anyone who put up a fight, ended up dying.
THIS TOO.
ALDRITCH AND THE SQUIRMY SQUIRES ARE DEEPLY FUCKING ENTRENCHED INTO ANOR LOND- THEY FUCKING RUN THE SHOW.
>>336084854
>Then he was forced to do it. Are you intentionally being retarded?
Who? Who niggah? Who the fuck forced Aldritch? You think they'd mention something like that? Some Hero or Trickers who tricked/defeated Aldritch into linking the flame?
Are YOU being intentionally fucking retarded? ALDRITCH IS A VILLINOUS FUCKING LAMPREY.
WHO/WHY/HOW WOULD HE EVER LINK THE FLAME? ALL HE CARES ABOUT IS HIMSELF AND HIS OWN POWER.
>>336085918
The First Flame wasn't in Dark Souls 2. You sit on the Throne of Want or you don't.
>>336085832
>hey our kings brain-dead and our queens a cunt, let's go find somewhere else to serve
>oh hey I heard some guy is eating gods
>yeah let's go serve him
sure
>>336085918
>First Flame never moves
When was that established?
>>336085932
>Who?
I don't know, it's one of the millions of things in the game that are unexplained. Half of every fucking souls game is a "mysterious hero" or "unknown warrior". Just because the game doesn't explicitly state how he was forced to link it or why he linked it does not mean he didn't do it.
>>336080708
>Implying they would remodel the statue and not just copy paste it from games before he had concept art
>Implying it wasn't originally Nameless King's spear and he gave it to Ornstein when he was exiled
>>336085921
I'm only pulling logical conclusions instead of being retarded.
Maybe you should try that.
>>336064358
>Garunteed replies
>>336085685
And yet the only thing Burnt on him is his legs,while every other Lord of Cinder has burns all over their body and some fire phase.
Ludleth is a fucking liar. Hes the soulfeeder that was burnt, just came back at the bell.
The Firekeeper even has no idea who he is.
>>336085918
http://www.polygon.com/2012/12/19/3783452/dark-souls-2-staff-discuss-the-vga-trailer-and-what-having-real
"The game is set in a different part of the same planet -- to put it another way, if the first game was set in the North Pole, this one would be in the South Pole; that sort of contrast."
>>336086114
Conclusions that complete contradict the game's use of a specific term. You have zero evidence to support your position and yet there is evidence to support the contrary, and you pretend like you're the one making sense
>>336086059
>I don't know, it's one of the millions of things in the game that are unexplained. Half of every fucking souls game is a "mysterious hero" or "unknown warrior". Just because the game doesn't explicitly state how he was forced to link it or why he linked it does not mean he didn't do it.
No. Fuck you- you have no basis to believe Aldritch was tricked or forced to link the flame: Yhorm's linking of the fire was mentioned like a dozen times and even Ludleth of fucking courland makes a point of saying he linked the fire.
Fuck off with this inanity.
Aldritch didn't link the flame.
They made Aldritch a "lord of cinder" so he wouldn't just EAT everyone and then gave him the cathedral of the deep and sent him sacrifices to keep him happy and without want.
No one said he linked the fire: So you're only going on an "assumption" which is less than what we have.
If he had linked the fire they would have fucking mentioned it.
>>336086291
Hey can I be made a lord of cinder too? All you have to do is say so and it works like that right
>>336085832
Armor implies they became mercs after Drang got fucked at some point.
Pontiff looks like he has money so yeah sure.
>>336086215
Sounds like you're talking about your own theories, Anon.
I wonder if FS and Zaki-kun get shown these thread and just laugh at all the tedious strings we're connecting because they just did everything as they went.
>>336086291
So what killed Aldrich, and why does he have a firey second phase like Abyss Watchers and Yhorm?
>>336086404
Are you strong? If so then yes.
>>336064203
because the bullshit with time and space bending in the world, you can basically hand wave anything. like how the main cathedral from anor londo is in irithyll but the rest of anor londo clearly isn't. it also lets you make up whatever you want for the characters since they can say they die in some universe but not in others (like how people say one version of ornstein gets killed by you in das1, another hangs around and becomes the old dragon slayer, and another version still goes and confronts nameless king)
its all intentionally bullshit because its easier to just say "hey make up whatever you want, there is no right answer" than to take the time to try and write a satisfying story that makes sense
>>336086291
>They made Aldritch a "lord of cinder"
Which means what exactly, if it doesn't entail linking the fire (which Ludleth clearly states that it does)?
And he is revived in the beginning by the bell, which means he was dead before the events of the game. How did he die if not by linking the fire? Why did he awake at the exact same time as those who did link the fire? Coincidence?
Reminder that Lothric is considered a Lord of Cinder but he purposely didn't link the fire
Holy shit is this game actually 30 FPS on xbox? Because I am watching a friend play it right now and it looks like an N64 game. It looks closer to 20fps than 30.
>>336085671
And the three ds2 dlc take place in other kingdoms geographically (and chronologically?) removed from both lordran and drangleic?
>>336085918
We never explicitly link the first flame in ds2.
I don't know what the fuck we do.
Vendrick went and stole the lordvessel and smashed it to pieces. He also stole the art of creating golems. Then he fucked off to the undead purgatory to get away from nashandra and went hollow. He never linked the flame either.
Also what the hell happened to the lordvessel?
Are the undead able to warp in ds2 and 3 because we linked the lordvessel to us in the first game? Are all chosen undead fragments of the chosen undead?
>>336086501
So lets find a bunch of strong guys call them lord of cinders and have them link teh flame instead of going all over the world and getting the souls from the old lord of cinders if it's that easy
>>336086215
What evidence supports Lord of Cinder linking the flame? One line?
Why does Gwyn not come back?
Why does Chosen Undead not come back?
Why literally only those 4?
Because everyone has a Destiny. Kaathe even says so. These 4 were Destined to link the flame, and chose not to. Literally only the Abyss watchers had any motivation to link the flame, but they were also infected by the Pus of man. They are based off Artorias, who we know had succumbed by the Abyss, which also happened to them.
The entire fucking series has you choosing if you want to Link it or not. Its not like these idiots didnt also get that choice.
>>336086592
The current lords of cinders are strong guys and fire linkers. So let's do both!
>>336086724
Gwyn and Chosen Undead and every other player character from DS1 from every world merged into the Soul of Cinder
>>336086724
>Why does Gwyn not come back?
>Why does Chosen Undead not come back
They're the Soul of Cinder you fucking moron.
>What evidence supports Lord of Cinder linking the flame? One line?
The entire premise of the game? See:
>>336081230
I wonder what Karla's endgame is. She's a shard of Manus so I have to assume she's somewhat evil.
>>336086291
THE GUY HAS A FUCKING SECOND PHASE
HE LITERALLY LITS HIMSELF ON FIRE
LIKE ALL OTHER BOSSES WHO LINKED THE FIRE
THE LOTHRIC BOSS FIGHT HAS NO SUCH A THING BECAUSE HE DIDN'T LINK IT
>>336086751
If you're the same anon I was talking to then you just admitted aldrich linked the flame so good job
>>336086448
Because he is an unkindled, or carrier or the Darksign.
Why do we also get Burns and such when we use an Ember?
Why does Ludleth NOT have Burn on his torso? Did he only link the flame using his legs?
>>336086589
>I don't know what the fuck we do.
It's stated you take the Throne of Want and gain the power to make that decision yourself. It's an upgraded version of the Kiln and it confuses me why FROM went back on that design in DaS 3.
It's all a moot point anyhow, the canon ending is the Bearer of the Curse takes Aldia's advice and leaves the Throne of Want, hence why Drangleic is known as a place where men went "beyond death", which is what Aldia's been trying to do since forever.
>Are the undead able to warp in ds2 and 3 because we linked the lordvessel to us in the first game? Are all chosen undead fragments of the chosen undead?
The fragment in DaS 3 suggests Bonfires are "linked" to others in a specific region. Not only that, but Bonfires are actual things people can produce, place and "fuel" with Undead bones.
>>336086858
In my game, after I let the flame fade, me and Karla get married and embrace the darkness together.
>>336086868
When Lothric actually joins the fight he's cindered though. You can see the flames and shit on just him but not his brother. I'm pretty sure he linked the fire before and got cursed and shared it with his brother and now that they came back he left to watch it go out
>>336086908
When unkindled get embered, they just get that slight flame aura. Abyss Watchers, Yhorm, and Aldrich all become engulfed in flames and all their attacks turn firey.
Compare that to Lothric who we absolutely know didn't link the flame. He only gets the same slight flame aura as Ashen One.
>>336086592
Isn't that exactly what they tried to do with lothric?
The other way is easier. They are already powerful souls so defeating them guarantees a high chance of success.
>>336085562
>>336085932
>>336086291
Why is it so hard for you to understand his name is Aldrich?
>>336064203
It literally can't be, since the dukes archives are right by anal rondo which is in the boreal valley, while the royal archives are up in lothric castle which isn't even remotely close to there
>>336086821
>>336086834
>Theyre Soul of Cinder
And why is Aldrich and Ludleth and them not Soul of Cinder?
Soul of Cinder is just an almalgomation of all those who linked the fire.
If Aldrich can come back after linking the fire, so can Gwyn
>>336086882
Stop being retarded
>>336087009
That's just the same ember aura the PC gets when you use an ember. His brother's sword is on fire because it was tainted by a demon lord that he killed.
>>336086724
All of the lord souls we collected in ds1, as well as every chosen undead form the fragments of the lord souls in the other games.
>>336087092
The Souls of Cinder is very discriminatory. No manlets, no giants, no blob monsters, no gay orgies.
>>336086589
the brume tower is in drangleic.
>>336087092
>And why is Aldrich and Ludleth and them not Soul of Cinder?
I assume after Linking the Fire you're able to either just let yourself burn down to cinders, or leave.
Ludleth left, but not before his briquette legs got burnt up.
Why did they bother with creating Lothric? The lore sucks and even if it didn't, it's basically a bland version of Drangleic. They really should've just let the game take place in Lordran again.
is Aldia mentioned anywhere in the game?
>>336087092
>maybe if I keep pointing out holes in the retarded souls lore, my headcanon will be correct!
Bud, you are literally not making any argument whatsoever. You're poking holes in the spotty lore of the game that we all know is full of bullshit, but you haven't actually articulated what a lord of cinder is if not someone who linked the flame
Your argument is basically "ur wrong cause the game does not explicitly say X"
>>336087235
Miyazaki apparently despises Dark Souls 2 even though Scholar of the First Sin is, at least lore-wise, probably the greatest game in the series.
>>336087247
Not at all, which makes me hope he's included in DLC.
His character was fascinating, his VA was fantastic, and his goals fall squarely in line with ones you see in the game.
>>336087232
Theres no evidence to support that. That is 100% headcanon.
All evidence suggesrs you sacrafice yourself.
>>336087247
He's the guy who told Lothric that linking the fire was a fucking stupid idea.
>>336087381
source?
Does this mean we'll see him the dLC
>>336087380
>There's no evidence to support that. That is 100% headcanon.
Except we have the Soul of Cinder, which is an amalgamate of those who linked the fire...
... And yet we have a gaggle of characters that linked the fire and didn't die.
>>336087367
DS2 has no fucking lore. None of the bosses have purpose. They spent their entire writing budget on the tale of Vendrick and the Giants. The rest is just stuff they pulled out of their ass because they tried too hard to be ~mysterious~
Miyazaki always forms a complete story and then hides bits from it. The B team just created an incomplete story from the get go. I'll admit the stuff with Aldia they added in SOTFS is a great addition but it doesn't mean much when the rest is just atrocious.
>>336086821
>other player character from DS1 from every world
Only the ones who chose to link the fire, also it is implied there are more times where the fire needed to be linked than the first game
how come Irythil chose a badass like Sulyvahn to be pope? usuall you want an old wise guy who's into shota
>>336086925
So drangleic is now probably a mess of humanity even worse than ds3s setting?
>It's an upgraded version of the Kiln
Could it be a sort of, to use a crude analogy, wireless version of the kiln?
Since vendrick wanted to stay in drangleic and not at the original kiln?
It would explain why its done away with since we end up going to the actual kiln.
>>336087380
>All evidence suggesrs you sacrafice yourself.
Your spelling is really fucking atrocious. And no, all evidence points otherwise. Every character in the game that we are 100% sure to have linked the fire (Gwyn, Ludleth, Yhorm) retained their form after having linked it. Presumably it takes some time before a Lord's body is destroyed and their soul becomes part of the Soul of Cinder, but the game doesn't say specifically how it works.
>>336087538
>Miyazaki always forms a complete story and then hides bits from it.
lol
>>336087092
What part of the intro you didn't get?
These fucks were all dead before the Flame went "yo, wake the fuck up because I need someone to link the fire because the guy that was supposed to do it bailed"
Those guys were the best of the best, that's why it brought them back to life.
Can you imagine what it would cost to bring Gwyn back to life? Hell, can the Flame even do it? The Chosen Undead could have used his cinders as fuel for the Flame since now this is a thing.
>>336087471
They came back from their graves in the Intro except for Ludleth and Lothric.
>>336087552
Seems like the people who didn't finish the game are also canon, seeing as Anor Londo came from a world where a player quits the game at Ornestein & Smough
>>336082227
"Only a storm can fell a GREATWOOD
>>336087638
>what is a metaphor
>>336087380
>Link the fire in the hidden usurper ending
>Still moving around
>>336087471
Which defintley doesnt suggests they didnt link the fire...which you can choose to do
>>336087538
You're a fucking drone
>>336072897
Why is his soul blue
And how are the deacons all one soul?
>>336087557
They didn't, he made himself Pope because you are not going to question a >2m tall guy with a UGS made from Hellfire and Greatsword from sorcery so high-leveled that it could be mistaken for being divine.
![DARK-SOULS-III_20160329221827[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/FspYftt.jpg "DARK-SOULS-III 20160329221827[1]")
>>336086404
>All you have to do is say so and it works like that right
You get it from having a powerful soul; not from being a shit heel.
>>336086448
>So what killed Aldrich, and why does he have a firey second phase like Abyss Watchers and Yhorm?
Same could be said about the PC: Why are they an heir of cinder? What made them special? Is it intrinsic? Does the bell trigger what we consider "Cinder mode"?
Again- I think it has more to do with the personal potential and merit of the individual and their actions as well.
*LOTHRIC ALSO HAS A SECOND EMBER PHASE AND NEVER LINKED THE FIRE*
You got me on what killed Aldritch though- that IS actually a fantasic question.
>>336086561
>Which means what exactly, if it doesn't entail linking the fire (which Ludleth clearly states that it does)?
It entails both: You can get it FROM linking the fire or having the POTENTIAL to link a fire.
>>336086592
>So lets find a bunch of strong guys call them lord of cinders and have them link teh flame instead of going all over the world and getting the souls from the old lord of cinders if it's that easy
This was the point of the "Lord of Cinders" Council you stupid piece of hog shit.
It was meant to gather strong guys whom you wouldn't have to hunt down and they'd just sit on their thrones and the fire would be linked.
But they fucked off and need to be hunted down because they broke their promise, etc.
The 3 odd Lords of cinder who didn't link the fire are still important because they're needed for their souls to burn in the fire: You need 1 vessel to start the fire, but you need many souls/humanity to feed it.
>>336086868
>THE LOTHRIC BOSS FIGHT HAS NO SUCH A THING BECAUSE HE DIDN'T LINK IT
https://youtu.be/aSKceX55vVQ?t=243 4:03-4-09 When Lothric revives his brother they both become visibly cindery/kindly and they enter their "lord of cinder" phase.
I'd be rude back- but I legit didn't notice it either. Thank you for making me go look.
>>336087563
>So drangleic is now probably a mess of humanity even worse than ds3s setting?
Probably not, Drangleic from my remembering of item descriptions is actually a settled place now, famous for it's "legend of the Linking of the Fire" and those who "went beyond death."
Aldia never wanted Man to turn into raw Oolacile Humanity monsters, but at the same time he thought the First Flame's curse on Humanity (that we are tied to the First Flame) was absurd. Aldia wanted mankind to enjoy the benefits of eternal life and sapience (Age of Dark) and glory, intellect and purpose (Age of Fire). In other words, the third option.
>>336087789
Again, that's nothing near the cinder phase the other bosses have. Lothric just gets the same ember aura as the PC. Lorian's sword is firey because it was tainted by a demon.
>>336087904
>DS2 is the only game that got a good ending
Like pottery
>>336087582
Gwyn didnt sacrafice himself. Gwyn sacraficed his Lords Soul, making him hollow.
Stop presuming anything. You all want to talk about evidence, show some Evidence.
Also, Soul of Cinder being an almagomation, and Gwyn being the first to Link, its not unlikely Gwyn in game 1 was just the first Soul of Cinder. Hollowed, Haggered and burnt with no eyes.
>>336087538
>Miyazaki always forms a complete story and then hides bits from it.
you'd have to be literally retarded to believe this. he just makes it intentionally incoherent
>>336087904
The Drang knights were disbanded and went on to become sellswords so something bad happened to Drangleic
>>336087789
>What made them special
Nothing? Presumably a whole host of undead awoke at the bell's toll and were obliterated by Gundyr. Your character is just stronger for the sake of the game.
>"Lord of Cinders" Council
What council? They need the souls of five lords because the lords ALREADY LINKED THE FIRE and are significantly weaker as a result. Yhorm, Aldrich etc... can do it themselves, but they've already burned most of their soul away as fuel for the fire. So this time we need more of them.
And Lothric isn't a Lord of Cinder anyways, he's just a Lord. He isn't mentioned in the opening cutscene.
>>336088040
>Gwyn didnt sacrafice himself. Gwyn sacraficed his Lords Soul, making him hollow.
What the fuck is the difference?
Not to mention your argument is utter bullshit because we know for a fact that Ludleth linked it and did not become part of the Soul of Cinder immediately, so clearly there is more to it.
>>336087563
Dude, I don't think it's possible to be worse than Lothric right now. That "kingdom" is a fucking nightmare world.
>>336068460
Is drawfag still alive?
>>336088191
He was here earlier.
>>336087608
>Can you imagine what it would cost to bring Gwyn back to life? Hell, can the Flame even do it? The Chosen Undead could have used his cinders as fuel for the Flame since now this is a thing.
What the fuck are you talking about? The 4 in DSIII are said to be unbeatable.
Aldrich devours gods.
Yhorm is said to only be beatable by Stormruler
Abyss Watchers take down entire kingdoms
Canonically Gwyn is the weakest of the Lord of Cinders.
>>336088009
>Chosen Undead gets tricked into linking the flame and becomes part of the Lord of Cinder soul
>Bearer of the Curse found the cure to hollowing and fucked off to a peaceful land to live his life in peace, probably chilling with Aldia too
>>336088040
Stop attempting to use the word sacrifice.
>>336087709
>he thinks you actually link the fire
Thats cute. Look at the moon next time moron.
>>336087904
But. How?
Isn't it a one or the other choice?
Maybe aldia just led a philosophical sort of revolution while someone on the other end of the world linked the flame.
>>336082936
>right up the hill from Anor Londo
nigga, anor londo is
>past lothric castle
>past the high wall
>past the undead settlement (which is way the fuck down from the outer wall)
>past the road of sacrifice
>past the forest
>past the swamp
>past whatever the watchers area is called
>past the catacombs
and finally
>past the entire fucking boreal valley
that's up the goddamn mountain if anything
>>336088271
Gwyn destroyed an army of the most powerful beings in the Souls universe. Aldrich doesn't "devour gods", he devoured one pathetic sick god that was already weak (and didn't even devour him entirely)
>>336088158
>The Drang knights were disbanded and went on to become sellswords so something bad happened to Drangleic
The Drang knights did not disband because something bad happened to Drangleic.
The Drang knights disbanded because they committed treason against Drangleic by descending into the Abyss and touching whatever dwelt within, which is probably why they joined up with the Big Goopy Goober and his merry band of religious nutjobs.
>When the Drang Knights disbanded, they scattered across the lands as sellswords. They quickly became known for shieldless, aggressive tactics that struck fear in the hearts of men.
>The Drang Knights were once feared sellswords, until treason meant descending into the abyss, and they were separated forever.
>>336088357
>he didn't get the secret third ending in SOTFS
>>336088271
Gwyn ended the fucking age of dragons. He toppled the mightiest creatures alive. Shut up with that shit.
>>336087683
Massive stretch to think that's just a metaphor. He looks like one and sounds like one. Also storm ruler only affects him and not other giants because he IS A TREE GIANT
>>336088234
Good.
>>336087229
How big exactly is Drangleic? Apparently Eleum Loyce, Shulva, and Brume Tower are all a part of it, but they're in distinct geographical areas (wintery mountains, a fucking volcano, etc.).
I always thought those areas were just vassals of Drangleic or something.
>>336088171
>what the fuck is the differance
The lord soul isnt Gwyns soul. Its a soul he found. Did you not watch the intro to Dark souls 1?
>>336088357
>Isn't it a one or the other choice?
That's what Aldia spent his existence looking for, the third option.
It's insinuated he found that third option in item descriptions (those who went beyond death) and the Crowns.
>>336088357
>Isn't it a one or the other choice?
No?
Dark Souls gave you
>Link the Fire
>Let it Fade
In DS2, Aldia says each choice sucks because one is a temporary solution that will always require a sacrifice (and is prone to go wrong, if DS3 is anything to by) whereas the other is just straight up letting everyone turn into fucking mindless humanity monsters.
In the end, he congratulates you for taking the third option, even if it may prove to be futile.
>>336084663
But you can
>>336088495
>I always thought those areas were just vassals of Drangleic or something.
They are, if you look at the Shield of Want you'll see heraldry beneath the sigil of Drangleic.
>>336088407
And Yhorm literally conquered as a One man Vangaurd, and had to drop his shield because people were reporting him for hacking
Whats your point?
Gwyn got rekt by some undead manlet using some no name sword.
>>336088158
Something bad happened to the Drang Knights since item descriptions say they committed treason.
We don't know what happened to Drangleic, but it's probably fine just like Catarina.
>>336088495
>lsn't Drangleic actually a bunch of united kingdoms? That's the feeling I got from looking at the shield of want
>>336087789
>It entails both: You can get it FROM linking the fire or having the POTENTIAL to link a fire.
Why do you keep saying this? There is no evidence to support this. We have two Lords of Cinder that are explicitly stated to have linked the fire and two that are heavily implied to have done it. You keep repeating this potential crap but there is nothing in game to suggest what you're saying
>>336064203
It's not exactly dukes archives like some people are likely having autistic fits about, but it is a throwback. The king of lothric himself had a boner for crystal magic and even had a crystal sage up in there with him. Just about everyone in this game is carrying on the legacy of someone important from DS1, whether they realize who it is or not.
>>336087918
>Again, that's nothing near the cinder phase the other bosses have. Lothric just gets the same ember aura as the PC. Lorian's sword is firey because it was tainted by a demon.
At this point you're just being a bunyuck arguing semantics.
>B-but his lord of cinder phase isn't Cindery enough!
Lothric princes are lords of cinder who didn't link the flame.
You NEED their soul/cinder to link the flame.
They have a cinder mode dispite not having linked the flame.
You don't need to have linked the flame to be a lord of cinder.
You only NEED to be POWERFUL.
You become POWERFUL by ACQUIRING SOULS from other STRONG PEOPLE.
The Lords of Cinder were ESTABLISHED with BIG CHAIRS so that their BIG SOULS could sit there and the fire be linked so the next guy to link the FIRE doesn't have to HUNT the other people down and waste TIME.
>>336088828
oops, greentexted by accident
Yhorm is a tree. Only a storm can fell a GREAT WOOD and his soul staes he's the descendant of the Giant Lord
>>336088724What is heraldry?
>>336088158
yeah, Drangleic fell.
Countless Kingdoms, remember. Vendrick himself crushed whoever was on the continent previously and build his kingdom on their bones. He was a conqueror.
then the giant war fucked up Drangleic and according to Captain Drummond, actually waged for generations. And it ONLy ended when the time travelling Protagonist defeated the Giant Lord, after which he was imprisoned and the remaining giants enslaved or imprisoned. after that the curse eventually hit, and Vendrick, with the help of Aldia, tried to cure it. they failed, though they did create an artificial firekeeper, (along with countless abominations and pomf mummies) and when vendrick realized nashandra was what she was, and that the only real answer was linking the fire, he pussied out and abandoned the throne to go hollow in the crypt.
then you kill nashandra and link the fire.
where do you think that leaves the kingdom when literally it's ONLY remaining official is a ghost?
Drangleic as a continent became famous for linking the fire, yeah, but the kingdom was dead and probably ended up being replaced by something else, which probably grew out of Majula, as the last remaining settlement of almost-normal people
>>336085441
Kaja the Turkroach
Green Blossom
>>336088828
>>336088896
>lsn't Drangleic actually a bunch of united kingdoms? That's the feeling I got from looking at the shield of want
Pretty much, which would technically make Drangleic an empire.
Although there is the possibility that the heraldry on the Shield of Want are vassals, like dukes or counts.
>>336088524
>>336088676
>>336088393
I went and saw the ending again.
That's pretty interesting. I hope one of the dlc elaborates on that. Maybe the final one, to tie what can be up.
>>336088894
>The Lords of Cinder were ESTABLISHED with BIG CHAIRS so that their BIG SOULS could sit there and the fire be linked so the next guy to link the FIRE doesn't have to HUNT the other people down and waste TIME.
That doesn't work. They were revived to link the flame themselves not to sit in the throne and let someone kill them and link it
>>336064203
I just killed the first crystal sage today. After that, wheelchair old-lady-merchant started selling "sage's Big Hat," as in Big Hat Logan, who we found in the Duke's Archives. I'd say there's a link, but I thought the idea was that the realities are fragmented and little bits of other universes exist in this one.
![tumblr_n4r2dnDAGV1s0u6e9o1_500[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/V9FvcyI.jpg "tumblr n4r2dnDAGV1s0u6e9o1 500[1]")
I'm gonna post this again for posterity sake because I think it's an interesting idea: You're welcome to poke holes in it/add to it if you think it's retarded or amazing.
>Drangleic is first and foremost it's own separate continent/landmass across the ocean. Anor Londo is the land of Giants: King Vendrick sails there to pillage treasures.
With that out of the way here is my "grand speculation" concerning Dark Souls 2 connection to Dark Souls 3.
>Lothric was founded by the Cursed Undead, The Emerald herald and and the survivors brought over from Drangleic.
>The Cursed Undead decided to abandon the cycle of fire in Drangleic due to the prompts of Aldia and searched for an end to the curse and of fire/darkness on his own terms: Drangleic ended up succumbing to darkness and perhaps even sunk into the sea.
>The Cursed Undead manage to colonize The Lothric region including the remains of the dukes archive. They learn many things, but numerous other things are imparted onto the people of lothric from drangleic tradition:
The training, breeding and riding of dragons- did you not think it suspisios that anor lond with such a rich history of dragon SLAYING would have a nation using dragon-riding knights? Lothric priests are also unique in their use of CHIMES as opposed to TALISMANS.
>Lothric keep also contains the most items/relics native to drangleic: A faraam knight being the main one, but also the blue tearstone ring being another one and the worship of CAITHA.
>King Ocerius I believe to be the product of The Emerald Herald being taken as the mate of The Cursed Undead and producing Heirs: King Ocerius being one of them, but specifically he was the one to recognize his "dragon blood" from The Emerald herald's side.
>>336088991
A Team would never do that because they hate the idea of a good ending.
>>336088939
>What is heraldry?
Coat of arms, used to denote nobility and family lines.
>>336088725
Conquered lesser beings, big fucking whoop. You're an idiot if you can't tell the different between that and exterminating practically the entire race of the strongest beings alive.
>>336088894
>Lothric princes are lords of cinder who didn't link the flame.
NO THEY AREN'T YOU FUCKING IDIOT.
>Opening:
>When the link of fire is threatened the bell tolls,
>Unearthing the old Lords of Cinder from their graves:
>Aldrich Saint of the Deep
>Farron’s Undead Legion, The Abyss Watchers
>and the reclusive lord of the profaned capital,
>Yhorm The Giant
NO MENTION OF LOTHRIC OR LORIAN
>Ludleth:
>I linked the fire long ago, becoming a Lord of Cinder
HE WAS NOT A LORD OF CINDER BEFORE LINKING THE FIRE. THEN HE BECAME A LORD OF CINDER AFTER HE LINKED THE FIRE
>Soul of the Twin Princes:
>The two princes rejected their duty to become Lords of Cinder
>REJECTED THEIR DUTY TO BECOME LORDS OF CINDER
>TO BECOME
>BECOME, MEANING THAT THEY ARE NOT LORDS OF CINDER UNTIL THEY FULFILL THEIR DUTY
>WHICH IS LINKING THE FIRE
stop making this argument you fucktard
>>336089136
You become God in BB, in DeS you put the Old One to sleep
>>336088725
So can Yhorm.
He just happened to want to die because he couldnt face his duty or some such and left his one weakness out in the open.
Which was probably in case seigward failed to complete his promise to him. Remember, he was always travelling down to the profaned capital because of a promise to his friend.
What's up with all this proto wings?
>>336088939
>Heraldry is the practice of devising, granting, displaying, describing, and recording coats of arms and heraldic badges. Officers of arms (Kings of Arms, Heralds and Pursuviants) practice heraldry and also rule on questions of rank or protocol.
tldr the full crest of Drangleic with all the tiny crests below the main one
>>336088725
When you fight Gwyn in DaS1 he is a shell of his former self, since he had been burning his soul (one's source of power in the soulsverse) for who knows how long, hence his title changing from lord of sunlight to lord of cinders
>>336089227
Oh, the three colourful things are the bottom are the symbols of Eleum Loyce, Shulva, and Brume?
>>336089331
They look creepy.
>>336089276
DeS had two endings, bruv.
>>336089331
grant us wings
>>336074393
Abyss and Deep confirmed for different
>>336089397
>Oh, the three colourful things are the bottom are the symbols of Eleum Loyce, Shulva, and Brume?
Eleum Loyce, Shulva, the Iron Kingdom and probably a half-dozen unnamed duchies.
What's up with this Angel stuff in 3? Who or what are they?
>>336085992
>>336086589
But the Emerald Herald specifically talks about linking the first flame, and some of Straid's dialogue implicitly states that Drangleic was built on old Lordran.
https://youtu.be/Cdk_fvXG5xA?t=2m59s
>>336088939
>DaS2
>Vendrick was a just king until he got manipulated/cucked by Nashandra and accidentally destroyed his kingdom thanks to her influence
>DaS3
>His shield says he was a terrible king who wanted nothing but power and in the end, didn't get even that
Is this Miyazaki being pissy about DaS2 and retconning Vendrick? How petty.
>>336089016
you dont kill the small guy with charred legs, he just autobecomes meme magic soul
>>336089523
Buy the season pass to find out
>>336089249
We dont know who Yhorm conquered but we know his only means of defeat are canonically at the hands of Stormruler
>>336089253
>NO MENTION OF LOTHRIC OR LORIAN
Because they arent dead you fucking mong. Do people not understand the entire opening scene is about the bell and how it brought the Lord of Cinders back to life?
>>336089331
Dragons.
>>336089452
Aldrich didn't want an Age of the Abyss or an Age of Dark, he wanted an Age of Kos, or some say Kosm.
>>336089523
Kaathe and Frampt have wings now
>>336089560
>Vaati
Fuck off with your headcanon.
>>336089587
>completely ignoring the boss soul that blows his bullshit argument out of the water
Typical. This is why everyone hates Souls lorefags. The item flat out says that they did not become lords of cinder.
>>336089523
Kaathe, probably.
>>336089396
When you meet Yhorm hes also a shell of himself if you believe Lord of Cinder is someone who linked the fire. What is your point? Yhorm did exactly what Gywn did, yet Gwyn is 100x easier to fight with say a Longsword
>>336088495
I dont think Elleum Loyce or Shulva were part of Drangleic- Elleum Loyce seems to be in Forossa,
and Shulva is literally an ancient underground secret kingdom.
Iron king is the debatable one.
it's possible he was a neighboring king who did his own thing. I mean he wasnt even a real king, he was just a rich dude with a castle and a giant foundry behind it.
there seems to be little if any connection between OIK and Drangleic as far as the kingdom under Vendrick goes
>>336089690
>Hurr Durr Vaati
I didn't link it for his shit commentary buttnut, just the specific dialogue in his video. Way to invalidate your opinion.
>>336089698
What Boss soul?
Enlighten us oh wise anon.
>>336089561
>Is this Miyazaki being pissy about DaS2 and retconning Vendrick? How petty.
No? Vendrick *was* a terrible king. He waged a brutal generations-long war at the behest of his Daughter of Manus wife, and when that was over decided to fuck off to the cuckshed and go hollow.
Aldia himself calls Vendrick a "near" Monarch, meaning he is by definition a Failed Monarch.
>>336089587
>they arent dead
Because they aren't Lords of Cinder. Explain the fact that their boss soul says that they rejected their duty to become lords of cinder. Explain why Ludleth says that he only became a Lord of Cinder after having linked the fire
>>336088676
WHERE IS THE FUCKING BEARER IN 3! HE CAN'T GO HOLLOW CAUSE THE FUCKING CROWN. ANSWER ME FROM S:LDKGHHHHHHHHH"LDS:GBJS{"
>>336089560
Drangleic being built on lordran contradicts what From itself has said on the locations.
As for her talking about it. We never explicitly do it. But as the anon who replied earlier pointed out, it's a moot point since they seem to have gone with the aldia ending.
>>336089561
Probably adding a tragic spin to it. A sort of "history remembers him for his failings not successes" thing.
>>336089698
Jesus are you unable to read? That anon literally says the only reason they werent brought back was becausr they were never dead. He says nothing about them being Lord of Cinders.
>>336089523
Primordial Serpents
>>336064203
Epic bait post my friend
>>336089839
Are you fucking illiterate?
http://darksouls3.wiki.fextralife.com/Soul+of+the+Twin+Princes
>>336089807
I thought it was insinuated that Vendrick did some sneaky clandestine work on Shulva and the Iron Kingdom to acquire juicy bits of magic or technology for his own kingdom, considering they're places *connected* to Drangleic in one way or another.
And Iron King was absolutely a King, he started off as a piss-poor count and, after acquiring the power to lift and mold iron (and his trusty right-hand man Sir Alonne) became supreme overlord of his region.
>>336089807
Where is Forossa anyways? Wasn't that headless guy Vengarl a part of it?
>>336079601
uhhh time is convoluted, blah blah blah
basically, nanomachines.
>>336089934
No one ever said they were dead you moron. He did however say they were Lords of Cinder, which they aren't
>>336089976
Are you Illiterate?
I never once said they were a Lord of Cinder
I said they were never mentioned in the opening scene because they never fucking died.
>>336089883
>WHERE IS THE FUCKING BEARER IN 3! HE CAN'T GO HOLLOW CAUSE THE FUCKING CROWN. ANSWER ME FROM S:LDKGHHHHHHHHH"LDS:GBJS{"
HE
WILL(NOT)
BE
IN
THE
DLC
>>336090093
Where did I say they were lord of Cinders?
Heres my post again so you dont have to search
>NO MENTION OF LOTHRIC OR LORIAN
Because they arent dead you fucking mong. Do people not understand the entire opening scene is about the bell and how it brought the Lord of Cinders back to life?
>>336089840
>No? Vendrick *was* a terrible king.
I wonder who is behind this post?
>>336089840
He deserves better
>>336090105
Yea, they're definitely not dogs either, because they're depicted as human in-game. Oh sorry I thought we were just making retarded replies to refute arguments that no one has ever made
>>336090078
Forossa is an old kingdom that was defeated, its knights scattered and because notorious sellswords, like Vengarl and the Lion Knights.
>>336089883
D L C
L C D
C D L
>>336089561
>waged a war against a nation of giants, a war that costed him his kingdom
>spent his entire life obsessed with the crowns while everything slowly burned around him
>when Nashadra was revaled to be a bitch and he could have finally done something right he pussied out instead
He was a shit ruler
Can I just say that everybody yelling about their headcanon in capslock is acting like total homos?
>>336090187
The discussion is about them being lords of cinder. Obviously they're not dead, which is why they're not a lord of cinder. I don't know why you're pretending like people were discussing whether or not they were revived by the bell
>>336089331
The claws the human/abyss-snakes have look like that too
>>336090236
What Bullshit arguement did you blow out of the water then you fucking idiot?
People like you are the reason /v/ is known as the autism board
>>336090331
>pretending like your not the anon whose headcanon got blown the fuck out by capslock guy
You're not doing yourself any favors here :/
>>336090067
>Sir Alonne's item descriptions say he abandoned Iron King for reasons we don't know
>Go back in time and kill him before the Iron Kingdom even fell
what the fuck is this it makes no sense REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>336089698
>>336089253
>>336089698
>>336089839
>>336089976
>>336089934
Anon who caused all this trouble in the first place and has been arguing since:
>>Soul of the Twin Princes:
The Souls says this: "The two princes rejected their duty to become Lords of Cinder, and settled down far, far away to watch the fire fade from a distance. A curse makes their souls nearly inseparable."
The soul does raise a compelling point, desu.
Still, Aldritch.
>>336089561
>His shield says he was a terrible king
it doesnt, it just says he was basically lustful for power, which was true. he was a conqueror, and it's very likely that the Drakeblood Knights predate his kingdom. Considering Lindelt was founded by ex-Drakebloods who got remorseful after accidentally shulva and decided to preserve it's culture and secrets- and by DaS2, lindelt is a well established place AND rival to Drangleic, Vendrick probably led the Drakeblood knights. They had an obsession with Dragon blood, that was a lust for the power they thought drinking it would give them. And Yorgh's ring has the crest of Drangleic.
it's possible Vendrick was their leader, and eventually, when Shulva went south, they disbanded. half of them founded Lindelt, and the rest, with Vendrick, conquered the continent and set up a kingdom.
from there, that obsession with Dragons led to Aldia cloning Drakes from the petrified egg, and eventually resurrecting/cloning the Ancient Dragon.
Drangleic was all about power. The difference was that before nashandra, the people lived alright. they liked vendrick. When nashandra came, and played to his lust for power, she convinced him to conquer and steal from the giants, and THAT triggered the war that crushed the kingdom, after which, Vendrick, grey and old, and probably undead, branded by the darksign, pussied out of linking the fire, (despite the game telling us he also defeated the inheritors of the lord souls like we did) and went hollow in the crypt.
So he was lustful for power, and he was "no king" in the end, but that didnt make him evil. just another failed monarch who rose to power and fell spectacularly
>>336089883
>Arc-v
>S:LDKGHHHHHHHHH"LDS:GBJS{"
>LDS
Just as Keikeku
>>336090275
Was it defeated by Drangleic? I can't remember.
>>336090313
>waged a war against a nation of giants, a war that costed him his kingdom
Because of Nashandra.
>spent his entire life obsessed with the crowns while everything slowly burned around him
Proved to be a good thing since he led the Bearer of the Curse in the right direction for a cure.
>when Nashadra was revaled to be a bitch and he could have finally done something right he pussied out instead
He locked himself and the King's Ring in a tomb deep underneath the kingdom protected by hundreds of Syan Knights and other assholes, ensuring she could never reach the Kiln until you came along.
Vendrick did literally nothing wrong.
>>336090362
I was pointing out saying there not in the opening cinematic is no arguement for either side. If Lord of cinder is just a title, they arwnt dead. If Lord of cinder is those who linked the flame, they arent dead. I dont get why people point it out, then some idiot says their soul blows that arguement out of the water.
>>336090313
The problem with Vendrick is he was a coward.
He could have taken the throne, it would have accepted him and he would have been able to use it. But he chose not to, why? Because he believed in the third option, something Aldia was cooking up but Vendrick was probably incapable of helping with himself.
Vendrick would rather slowly go hollow in a crypt on the slim chance his brother figured out a cure, than sit on the Throne and link the fire, thus ensuring life flourished while Aldia continued his research.
He chose himself over his people, which as we learned in numerous descriptions throughout DaS 2 that this does not make him a true monarch.
>>336090473
You killed him. So he vanished.
>>336090515
>(despite the game telling us he also defeated the inheritors of the lord souls like we did) and went hollow in the crypt.
No he didn't. You literally go around and kill everyone who has a Lord Soul in DaS2.
>>336090572
no, Forossa was mired in war with a neighbor, (Mirrah perhaps?) and eventually fell.
>>336090473
>>336090658
You did not kill Sir Alonne, you killed a memory.
>>336085051
looks like both combined
calling it now, there will be a way to combine the dragon slayer spear and sword spear in the dlc
>>336090658
O-oh...You just ruined my day, thanks.
>>336090487
That's the point. Why would you assume Aldrich did not link the flame when
>he is explicitly referred to as a Lord of Cinder
>"Lord of Cinder" is a title explicitly bestowed upon those who link the flame (as evidenced by the boss soul you linked, Ludleth's dialogue and Yhorm's descriptions)
Everything in game points to him having linked the flame, become a Lord of Cinder, "died" and been awakened by the bell. I haven't seen a single shred of evidence to suggest that this is not what happened
>>336089758
Remember that Gwyn gave away part of his soul to Seath, 4 kings, his knights and maybe his whole family.
So, yeah, I guess the final product Gwyn was nerfed a lot... I wonder if you anyone could touch him at full power. He killed dragons that couldn't be killed.
>>336090758
Yeah, but when you kill the Giant Lord in the memory, he remembers you and gets triggered when he sees you again in his cave at the beginning of the game.
>>336089116
I'm just gonna chill the fuck out and post some other tidbits or whatever:
>The Snakemen on Dragon Peek are descendant from the original stock produce by Seath the Scaleless.
>Snakes are said to be greedy and "imperfect" dragons: The Snakemen of the peek hoard massive amounts of treasure as well as basically acting as the keeper and guards of the Dragon Peek- possibly servants or remaining worshipers of dragons.
>If you look closely the Snakemen sorcerers/shamans have 6-eyed masks resembling the masks of the sorcerers of Seath.
>The Snakemen also seem to be able to summon undead or human allies who are possibly loyal or belong to the dragon covenant??
>>336090758
it's not a memory, the ashen mist heart literally allows you to time travel.
>>336090824
Because what motivaion does he have? He wanted the dark
>hurr durr he was forced
By who? Suhlyvan was literally OP, hunting down the Gods so noone could oppose him. Who was strong enough to get by Sully to force Aldrich to link it? It makes no sense.
>>336090572
he still failed to do your job though. thats the big deal.
he could have linked the fire, but he didnt want to die, so instead he desperately tried to search for a cure, while his kingdom hollowed around him and his brother went literally mad scientist.
and instead of linking the fire, in that kiln in his basement, he ran away to wallow in pity at the fact his wife never really loved him and was just an evil monster.
he's a tragic figure for sure, but he did plenty wrong
>>336090712
The Lord Souls respawn.
Hell, Emerald Herald says having a Lord Soul is impressive, but not something extraordinary.
>>336064203
So what's the point of either of the Link the Fire or End of Fire endings? Even if you let the fire die the fire will come back eventually so what's the reasoning to not just re-link the fire and not get buttfucked by the abyss for however many years it takes for fire to come back. And you play intk Kaathe's hands if you Ususrp the Flame so what the fuck.
>>336072359
This, The Deep is a darkness unlike that of the Dark Soul.
Remember that when the Fire fades, Dark takes its place. But what happens when Dark too must fade? All that would be left is The Deep. That's why Deep related shit is all about oceans and unending dark seas. Human Dregs are the very most deep, horrific aspects of humanity made manifest, the things that lurk in the back of our thoughts that we try not to think about.
Cathedral of the Deep was originally devoted to suppressing and sealing The Deep from Humanity to protect us and the world, but they protected it so long and exposed themselves so much to The Deep that they grew to worship it instead.
>>336090848
>tfw we will never get to see 100% Yhorm vs 100% Gwyn
No Storm rulers. No parrying
Would be a fucking gladiator match
>>336090992
I'm not saying it makes sense, I don't know why he did it or who would have forced him to. Maybe he was tricked somehow; the game simply doesn't say.
What the game does say is that he is a Lord of Cinder, and that Lords of Cinder are people who have linked the flame. Beyond that I have no answer
>>336090712
when talking to Wellager:
>My Lord made magnificent findings on souls… An accomplishment for the ages…
>He vanquished the Four Great Ones… And built this kingdom upon their souls.
>Our King has watched over this land… Since ages long, long ago…
>King Vendrick…We must fight back… Or the Giants will take Drangleic…
>>336091070
So FROM introduced the ultra-evil in the setting in their last game and never really did anything with it?
I guess that's what DLC is for!
>>336091009
He couldn't link the fire since he didn't have the lord souls. I mean he probably could've went around and killed everything, but he most likely didn't have time since Nashandra was on to him at that point.
Remember, by sealing himself in the crypt he managed to stop Nashandra from getting to the kiln since she couldn't open that door.
And that brings the question: why did Nashandra even want to get to the kiln? What could she have even done with it?
I still don't understand who aldrich is or how she links with anor londo
>>336091102
No, Ludleth says Lords of cinders are those who linked the flame. Ludleth himself is full of plot holes.
>why are his legs burnt
>why is he the only LoC with some crippling deformity from after he linked it
>Why does he say 5 are needed to reenact the first linking, when you use 6 (first linking also only had 5, 4 Lords souls and CU catalyst)
Theres something off about him. I dont think he actually linked the fire, as noone knows who he even is. Anything we get on him ar3 from his own mouth or questions as to who he is.
>>336091331
Nashandra was a daughter of Manus and I honestly wouldn't want ANYTHING from that primordial monkey within 100 yards of the First Flame.
Vendrick did vanquish the Lord Souls, it's how he became a King.
Deep is different to the abyss
Read the spell description of deep protection.
It was once a sacred place of meditation that got corrupted.
>>336091331
>He couldn't link the fire since he didn't have the lord souls
he did though, according to his chancellor:
>>336091232
it is a plot hole definitely, that he got their souls but they still respawned without linking the fire, but thats what happened. and regardless, you dont specifically need those 4 souls, just really powerful souls in general. Thats why in 3, you find that the lords of cinder were individual blokes who linked the fire just through virtue of being super fucking powerful souls. remember: Gwyn linked the fire himself without any of the other lord souls
>>336091070
>putting something worse than the Abyss like that in the last game of the series
I thought that they suddenly killing off Chaos was a way for them to focus solely on the Abyss stuff and make it look like the "real villain" but apparently not
Bravo Miyazaki
>>336091341
Aldrich is a dude who likes to eat people, was sealed off in Anor Londo by Pontiff to devour the remaining gods
>>336091341
Aldrich is a goopy goober who founded the church of the deep after sticking his head in the metaphysical water and got scarred at what he saw.
Unfortunately he loved to eat people, kinda like Smough, and ate so many he dissolved into fatty sludge.
>Light
>Dark
>Abyss
>Deep
>Chaos
what a clusterfuck
>>336091514
The Princes boss soul says so as well, as does Yhorm's "Cinders of a Lord". That's simply too much evidence to argue otherwise.
>>336091598
Perhaps all of the souls you've accumulated disperse when you go hollow?
>>336091331
Interestingly enough. Dark souls 2 shows that you dont exactly need the rest of the lord souls to be able to do that.
Opening up the shrine of winter by having enough regular souls will be enough to end the game.
>>336091598
>>336091839
Friendly reminder you don't need the lord souls to pass through the Shrine of Winter, you can just have a fuckton of souls and go through that way.
>>336091774
What does Yhorms Cinders of Lord say?
And honestly, if you read all the Dialouge of Ludleth, he more hints at LoC being a Kindling for the eventual linker of the flame. Not nessisarly someone who actually linked it.
>>336091514
The first linking used only three lord souls and the chosen undead. The reason you need more is because the Lords in DaS3 already linked the flame are their souls were mostly consumed. Lothric and Lorian are cursed and weak and probably not strong enough to link the flame by themselves even if they wanted to.
Also, the game suggests that the linking is getting progressively less effective; look at how pathetic the flame is when you link it in DaS3 compared to the raging inferno in DaS. Really, this has already been discussed in this very fucking thread but you're refusing to either follow the discussion or read previous posts for some reason.
>>336091341
Aldrich once was this cleric who really liked to eat people
He ate so much he became a blob of mass thanks to Deep magic fuckery going on
After becoming Lord of Cinder, years passed and a cult formed around him
He awoke along with the other Lords of Cinder to link the fire
And just like the other Lords he chose to do his own shit instead, so he went to the Boreal Valley along with his cult to eat Gods 'n shiet
Trap god was there and he got eaten.
>>336091331
>He couldn't link the fire since he didn't have the lord souls.
You don't specifically need the "lord souls" to link the fire.
You can use any ol' souls to link the fire: Lord souls are more like.. They're just very grandious and amazing souls.
>>336088915
He's not a tree. Yhorm isn't a DaS2 giant, he has a face, his hood is chainmail.
>>336091242
It's not completely new. Light and dark came after the first flame. It's in the intro for the first game.
It's just not something that came up. Sortof like what was before the everlasting dragons or trees.
>>336091935
Where does it say that you need the Lord Souls to pass through the Shrine of Winter? As long as you have a strong enough Soul (as a test), you can do so just fine.
Is the Ivory King the single most valiant, "good" character in the series?
>>336091514
>Why does he say 5 are needed to reenact the first linking, when you use 6
You don't use six you jackass.
>Five thrones will take five Lords
Your player character is not a Lord, and therefore is not included in the five that you need.
>first linking also only had 5, 4 Lords souls and CU catalyst
The first linking only had THREE lord souls: Nito, Gwyn and the Witch of Izalith.
And you just keep ignoring the Prince's soul description every time you post. Honestly you're not even worth replying to at this point because you clearly have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. You're making shit up and ignoring all evidence to the contrary
>>336092063
That's the second linking. The first linking didnt even use all of gwyns soul since he'd split some fragments off.
>>336092063
>look at how pathetic the flame is when you link it in DaS3
1] You're an Ashen who can't even kindle normally, not even a real Undead.
2] It seems like your job is just to light the flame for a bit longer by cobbling together kindled souls that are already burnt (ie. weaker) until a REAL Undead can come by and link it for real.
>>336089523
>>336089653
what the fuck?
I thought they were just referring to the flying skeleton butterflies as the angels
>>336092096
>after becoming a lord of cinder
Wrong. They literally say he was locked in his own church, and then went to Boreal valley after he was resurrected, where Archdeacon Royce (deacon of the deep) watched over his casket.
He started the Church when he saw the fading flame and visions of a deep sea
>>336085051
Well this statue indeed has those bracelets and anklets that the Nameless King has, perhaps this statue is picturing a very young Nameless King, and probably his first weapon
>>336092375
The skeleton butterflies are known as "Pilgrim Butterflies," they are made when a pilgrim (the shell guys) lose their shell and allow freaky abyssal shit to take root.
>>336092254
>had a GOAT kingdom
>full of brave knights
>also had a child of manus as a wife but cured her with the power of his dick
>when duty called, he chose to sacrifice himself instead of running away
He is what Vendrick ever wanted to be and more
>>336092352
When does Gwyn link the fire before the events in DaS? The game says that the first flame just came into existence after the dragons were defeated. It doesn't say Gwyn kindled it
>>336092254
probably.
one of the best fights in the series, with fantastic buildup and even better lore. also great theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alTQiC6hhGc
probably my favorite in DaS2
>>336092253
You don't need any of the other lord souls to beat the game. Or the souls of those who possess the lord soul fragments, if we're being pedantic.
He could always have tried to link the fire and might even have succeeded.
But he probably didn't want to kill nashandra.
>>336092487
I find it funny how a single shell can apparently completely hold back the Abyss.
The Abyss is some weak shit.
>>336092334
Im not ignoring shit. You literally use Princes Cinders to link the fire.
Even if he didnt Link it himself, hes still literally used in the ritual. I never once touched upon him being a Lord of Cinder. Maybe actually read my post.
>>336092334
nito, gwyn, witch, pygmy which comprised other souls
>>336092637
You don't use the soul of Manus. It doesn't even exist in the base game and isn't required to link the fire even if you have the DLC
>>336092254
>Cares after his own people
>Had an entire army of devoted knights who followed him into hell
>Fought back against the Chaos
>Sacrificed himself to save his people.
He's LITERALLY Gwyn 2.0 who was so badass that he made Manus fall for his dick.
>>336092571
>Ivory King
>Curing Alsanna
More like he gave Alsanna exactly what she wanted. Alsanna was an aspect of fear, and the Ivory King gave her love and compassion. She wasn't cured so much as she was completed.
>>336092612
>you will never give a fragment of Manus the D so good she turns good and ever loyal to you
>>336092591
>The game says that the first flame just came into existence after the dragons were defeated
The First Flame is what they used to gain power and defeat the dragons, The Age of Fire began after the dragons were killed
>>336092625
>But he probably didn't want to kill nashandra.
I find this absurd. She's literally the personification of evil who showed time and time again she didn't give a shit about Vendrick or anyone else.
And in the end when you talk to him, he still calls her 'my dear Shandra'.
Is Vendrick the biggest cuck in the series?
>>336092635
You're ignoring it because the soul description, along with Ludleth, says that you need to link the fire before you are a Lord of Cinder. Which counters your argument that Aldrich is a Lord of Cinder without having linked the fire. You tried to discredit Ludleth with information that wasn't even correct, despite the fact that there is another source that states that Lords of Cinders linked the fire.
>>336092334
Why the fuck do you spergs keep bringing up the princes soul?
That anons post never once said the Prince was a Lord of cinder, but the fact is he is used in the ritual. That has ABSOLUTLY NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS SOUL
>>336092591
Gwyn links it before the events of ds1 and goes hollow. This was made very clear in the game.
Also linked, not kindled. No one kindled the first flame. The witch tried and well, the land got fucked and we got a horrible boss out of it.
>>336092591
>his sword
As bearer of the ultimate
soul, Gwyn wielded the bolts of the sun,
but before linking the fire, divided that
power amongst his children, and set off with
only this great sword as his companion.
>his soul
Lord Gwyn bequeathed most of his power to the
Gods, and burned as cinder for the First
Flame, but even so, Lord Gwyn's soul
is a powerful thing indeed.
He did it when he saw the First Flame dying, whenever that was.
>>336092898
His soul says outright that the Princes never became a lord of cinder, which means that a lord of cinder is someone who links the fire (which the princes did not do). Therefore, Aldrich being called a Lord of Cinder means he linked the fire.
Someone make a new bread.
>>336092862
What other sources? List me one other Non-ludleth source that says Lord of Cinders linked the flame. Write the actual description or dialoge.
>>336093019
This makes no sense since Yhorm didn't link the fire either. All descriptions related to him only mention the Profaned Flame.
>>336092843
Love is a strange thing, anon.You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
What is the profaned flame?
I heard somewhere that Manus was the furtive pygmy. Is this accurate? If so, why is he acting like women and sleeping with kings that link flames? Where did Manus come from, just out of the Abyss? And what exactly is Chaos? I played everything but the DLC for Dark Souls 1 and 2, so sorry if I missed stuff.
>>336093165
These anons just cant get past 1 line from a guy who became kindling but also linked the flame.
He even says Lords of Cinder are just kindling for the ritual, and ignore all the contradictory evidence.
Instead of making a thread I'll ask here:
I just finished DS1 and loved it. DS 2 and 3 are worth playing as well, right? What about optimization? DS1 ran like shit on my computer for some reason, had to tinker with it quite a bit to get comfortably playable.
Also what's the deal with Dragons, they're supposed to be dead but I saw the red one at the start, a black one in the dlc and a poop one in Ash Lake (which I'm ashamed to say I did not find by myself). Also undead dragons, I thought being undead was a humanity thing
>>336093225
>What is the profaned flame?
Fucking THIS.
What IS The profaned flame?
Can we please talk about the profaned elephant in the room?
Why did it only burn down people?
Why does COLD seal it away/contain it?
Why did Yhorm think linking the fire would contain it, but actually didn't at all?
Why are the Pontiffs/Cathedral of the deeps people and the people of Ithiryl valley using it as a source for their pyromancy/fire sorceries?
What the HECK is it??
>>336093165
holy shit you are dense.
the game goes out of its way to tell you that the lords of cinder are rising from their graves and your job is to go kill them all so their ashes can serve their job and relink the fire again.
the whole gimmick is that these big dudes are "lords of Cinder". so they have fiery second phases to their boss fights where they go lord of cinder mode. to contrast with gwyn, who became "lord of cinder" and had his sword on fire
>>336093219
>Loving a woman who destroyed your kingdom, tried to kill you, and wants to plunge the world into darkness
You gotta draw the line somewhere, Anon.
>>336064203
Where can I find this armor in game?
>>336093384
DaS2 will run far better on your PC. DaS3 will be somewhere in between, it is poorly optimized, but it wont run as bad as 1
>>336093165
>>336093358
Kill yourself bud.
>The two princes rejected their duty to become Lords of Cinder, and settled down far, far away to watch the fire fade from a distance
>two princes who refused to link the fire
>two princes who refused to become lords of cinder
>watched the fire fade from a distance INSTEAD of becoming lords of cinder (meaning if they became lords of cinder, the fire would not have faded, because they would have linked it)
You're either the stupidest motherfucker on the planet or are just being intentionally dense to be a faggot. The connection is clear but you keep sticking your head in the sand
>>336093507
beat the game and the shrine maiden will have it
>Mfw just finished the game and let the fire fade
The feels, god damn
>>336093392
it's the chaos flame from eleum loyce
>>336093550
Okay cool, thanks man.
>>336093165
Thank you for pointing this out. Made me look up the cinders again.
>The Watchers of the Abyss swore upon their shared wolf's blood, which also served as their mandate as lords.
>Aldrich became a lord by devouring men, but was disillusioned with his throne, and so took to devouring gods instead.
>Lonely Yhorm became a Lord of Cinder to put the Profaned Flame to rest, knowing full well that those who spoke of him as lord were quite insincere.
The only mention of linking the flame is for the princes who never did.
>The Watchers of the Abyss [...] their shared wolf's blood [...] served as their mandate as lords.
Not linking the fire, but possessing a powerful soul. Artorias and what not in this case.
>Aldrich became a lord by devouring men.
>>336093415
>posts no factual evidence
Give us a line from the game that outright says they all linked the fire
>hurr durr Ludleth says so
Ludleth also says 5 Lords for 5 thrones to be used as Kindling. They were never brought back to link the fire, they were brought back to be the ritual because they were all OP as fuck and Souls were strong enough
>>336093549
>Kill Lothric and his gay brother
>LORD OF CINDER HAS FALLEN
?!?!?
>>336093654
>The only mention of linking the flame
Yea so they all happened to randomly die and get incinerated by something that wasn't related to linking the first flame. Gotcha
>>336086142
Because he's still in the process of burning.
>>336093726
Lothric is technically a Lord of Cinder via selective breeding and magical curse, he just decided to not due what fate decreed he had to due
>>336093384
the red one isnt a dragon, it's a wyvern. A Drake. dragons are quadrupeds with wings. Drakes are bipeds with wings.
Drakes are descended from the Dragons, but are not anywhere in the same league as them.
the only true Dragons, the ones that survived the prologue, are the one in Ash lake, and Seath, who was always a freak of nature.
the one in the DLC is still a dragon, but much like the Drakes, he isnt a true everlasting Dragon with stone scales.
Zombie dragons are just zombie dragons. Not "undead" in the same way humans are.
its possible they are survivors of Nito's miasma of death
>>336085604
I didn't know vaati went to prison.
This whole thread is pretty much one idiot trying to argue something that everyone disagrees with.
All lords of Cinder linked the flame except Lothric. Lothric technically might not even be a Lord of Cinder as he is not mentioned as one in the trailer. If you disagree with this you are wrong.
>>336093480
I'm not saying it was smart.
I beat the princes, then tried to warp to Firelink, but my loading screen never ended. It lasted like 5 minutes so I just Alt+F4 the game. Will this mess up anything? Was some event going to happen and it was just taking a long time?
>>336088374
It's actually lower than the undead settlement.
>>336093694
you could just, you know, watch the intro to the fucking game that tells you that when "the link of fire is threatened, the bell will toll, awakening the old lords of cinder from their graves"
its right there in the fucking intro
>>336093773
>Gwyn: Lord of Cinder
>>336093392
So the profaned flame engulfed the capital after Yhorm became a Lord of Cinder but he also became a Lord of Cinder to put the flame to rest.
I think Yhorm fucked up with the fire somehow but I'm still not sure what it is.
>>336093969
no special cutscene for returning after beating the princes
>>336093953
>Not watching the world go dark with the Fire KeeperAshen One...Does Thou still hear my voice?
>>336094221
So we are also a Lord of Cinder? We were also awoken at the bell.
>>336093860
So... Kalameet is a dragon of old or nah?
>>336093750
Abyss watchers killed themselves. Aldrich was eating gwyndolin and dreaming of pale girls in hiding while kept by the deacons of the deep. And Yhorm was probably taking a fucking power nap.
Remember, if the princes were going to be worth anything by that definition of a lord of cinder than they would have to have done that and died too. Otherwise the whole thing would be pointless. Might as well put the soul of the nameless king on the final throne.
Who knows.
But aldrich became a lord by eating people, then gods. Not linking the flame.
>>336094312
You weren't awoken at the same time retard. You were only awoken when the lords failed to take their thrones and relight the fire. Did you even play the fucking game?
>>336094291
Killing the fire keeper is s interesting ending. I guess it's similar to the usurpation ending except your character wouldn't actually be able to use the flame without the dark sigil right?
>>336094312
Doesn't the firekeeper call you that when you first meet her? I don't remember.
>>336094412
>So... Kalameet is a dragon of old or nah?
not the same Anon, but I believe Kalameet to be an honest, true, dragon- he seems to powerful not to be.
I mean, he's psychic for fuck sakes.
>>336094417
He was forced to link the flame or did it for power, that's what killed him, your retarded. It's ok buddy some people just are.
>>336094312
are you just being retarded on purpose?
"only in truth, the Lords will abandon their thrones, and the Unkindled will rise. Nameless, accursed undead, unfit, even to be cinder. "
>>336093694
They're named after Gwyn, who linked the fire
He's the last of the dragons so, yes, he is a dragon.
>>336094263
Okay, cool. So it just messed up I guess. Thanks.
>>336094532
I'm not the guy arguing he never linked the flame. Im saying you don't need to link the flame to be a lord. Which the soul makes somewhat clear.
>>336094412
>>336094502
kalameet doesnt have stone scales. he is a dragon, but not an ancient everlasting one.
the game makes particular mention that Everlasting Dragons have stone scales. kalameet just seems to have normal skin.
Now Sinh, on the other hand, is an everlasting Dragon, and is specifically designed to look like he's made of stone
>>336094758
>Im saying you don't need to link the flame to be a lord
so basically, Gwyn was a Lord of Cinder before he linked the fire.
>>336094758
There's a difference between a Lord and a Lord of Cinder. Lothric is a Lord but not a Lord of Cinder. Nito was a Lord but not a Lord of Cinder
>>336094431
You think I killed her? We watched it all end together anon. It's time to let the fire fade at last. And one day, new fires will appear.
![tumblr_m814cpC1pe1qb1ou4[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/IbARToc.png "tumblr m814cpC1pe1qb1ou4[1]")
![nashandra-painting[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/SRLrgYg.jpg "nashandra-painting[1]")
![maxresdefault[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Fsf2yTH.jpg "maxresdefault[1]")
![vjaFKLr[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/hLZqNym.jpg "vjaFKLr[1]")
![Snake_MAn[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/jg2rDuK.jpg "Snake MAn[1]")
