UNANSWERED LORE QUESTIONS:
1. Why were the Abyss Watchers fighting each other?
2. How did Aldrich go from a regular saint into a destroyer of gods?
3. How can Aldrich consume Gwyndolin if Gwyndolin was killed in Dark Souls 1?
4. Where exactly did we fight High Lord Wolnir at?
5. Who is Ocelotte and where did they go?
6. The Nameless King, who is he? How can he have no name and still be a King? What is he even a King of?
7. The Soul of Cinder, how did it exactly come into creation? Wouldn't the same have happened to Gwyn?
8. How can there be 3 versions of Firelink all existing at the same time? (Firelink Shrine, Untended Graves, Kiln of the First Flame)
9. Why is the Shrinemaiden in the Untended Graves?
10. What exactly is this moving around in the Firekeepers visor? Humanity?
>>336021426
>1. Why were the Abyss Watchers fighting each other?
Its his hobby
>>336021426
Some of the Abyss watchers were controlled by the Abyss.
He decided that, before he gets his shit fucked up, he might as well eat some gods. He decided to be a bad ass.
Gwyndolin is not canonically dead until DS3, as, in DS1, hes an optional booss.
Got me on Wolnir and Ocelotte.
No confirmation, but implied to be Gwyn's forgotten son.
The will to link the fire, embodied. And yes, Gwyn is implied to be a part of the Soul of Cinder.
Time fuckery, I'm sure. Since DS1, we've known time has been fucked.
Probably actually tending the graves, seeing as her husband's grave is around there in the Firelink, it might be there in the Untended Graves.
That is the darkness that consumes the sight of the Firekeepers. They normally lack eyesight.
>>336021426
Gwyndolin was an optional boss so his death was not canon.
Nameless King is known just read his gear.
Aldrich ate people and gained power he was then given Gwyndolin on a silver platter and became "devourer of Gods"
>>336021426
>1. Why were the Abyss Watchers fighting each other?
The abyss watchers were like a brotherhood of witch hunters. They hunted down any sign of the abyss or corruption and exterminated it.
Well eventually one of the bros got corrupted by something (red eyes) and they ended up killing eachother instead.
However... because they all share the same soul (combined, they share the soul of the wolf, because they all drank wolfs blood), as soon as one guy dies, another one comes back.
>>336021426
>4. Where exactly did we fight High Lord Wolnir at?
In your mind. Welcome to magic.
9. Why is the Shrinemaiden in the Untended Graves?
Not "The" Shrinemaiden. "A" ShrineMaiden.
Different dialogue and voice.
>>336021426
1. Abyss corruption
2. Got a taste for human flesh and that made him fatten up so much he literally turned into sludge. Had a vision of the Deep and started to prepare by eating gods and stealing their power.
3. Optional boss. Gwyndolin didn't canonically die.
4. The Abyss
5. Maybe Yorshka, maybe someone we'll meet in DLC.
6. Gwyn's Firstborn. Item descriptions leave no room for debate about that. Straight out call him the heir of lightning.
7. It's Gwyn and Chosen Undead fused, supposedly along with a ton of other fire linkers. Didn't happen with Gwyn because he was the first.
8. Time and space fuckery. Dark firelink is in the past. If you speak to dark firelink's handmaiden before hub firelink's, the hub firelink maiden will recognize you.
9. That's her job.
10. Looks like a darksign, so probably Humanity, yeah.
>>336021889
>Gwyndolin was an optional boss so his death was not canon.
>
>Nameless King is known just read his gear.
Nameless King is also an optional boss so any relevance you dismiss of Gwyndolin in the first game can be immediately dismissed of Nameless King in the 3rd game.
Everyone did kill Gwyndolin. It's stupid to bring him back.
After killing Lothric, I went to other areas of the game for one final check before heading to NG+. All areas except the Boreal Valley and Archdragon Peak have red skybox with the bleeding sun. It's neat and all, but what bothers me is why is Firelink's skybox not red? Lothric Castle is visible in the sky and yet the sky is clear.
Alternate world? Then how come NPCs can enter the shrine like it was part of the world?
1. Their members are tainted by the Abyss. The ones hostile to each other are the normal ones, and the ones with red eyes.
2. Eating powerful beings and turning into a blob.
3. Chosen Undead killing Gwyndolin isn't canon. He was an optional hidden boss fight.
4. Abyss. His Soul, weapon and miracle descriptions confirm this.
5. Probably Consumed King's imagination, going mad with his research into dragons in an attempt to find a worthy heir for himself.
6. Gwyn's Firstborn. Nameless King's soul, weapon and miracle descriptions, Ring of the Firstborn, DaS1 Sunlight Medal descriptions confirm this. He got removed from history books due to allying with Gwyn's arch-nemesis, dragons.
7. Soul of Cinder is the combined soul of all the previous Fire linkers, including Gwyn and Chosen Undead from DaS1. Check the Soul of the Lords description.
8. Untended Graves happens in the past. Confirmed by Gundyr's armor description. Don't know about Kiln Firelink.
No idea about 9. or 10.
>>336022000
>Not "The" Shrinemaiden. "A" ShrineMaiden.
It's the same one. If you somehow visit Untended Graves first and talk to the shrinemaiden there, then return to the regular firelink and speak to the one there for the first time, she has unique dialogue that shows she recognizes you before doing her normal introduction.
Why was Gwyn so obsessed with killing the everlasting dragons in the first place? What did they ever do to him?
>>336022075
>Untended Graves happens in the past.
This.
When you talk to the shrine maiden, she said something like "why are you here, everybody is still asleep".
You somehow travel back in time to before the bell rang and woke everybodys ashes up as unkindled undead.
>>336021426
1. They're edgy motherfuckers. They also probably lost their mind from all of that Abyss-watching, and in their delirium, see one another as pieces of The Abyss.
2. I think the religion that the Pontiff founded around him seemed to give him that title, or something. He also ate Gwyndolin, which grants some credence to the title.
3. The Gwyndolin fight may very well be non-canon.
4. The crown of Wolnir seems to have a bit of The Abyss infesting it, and within that Abysmal plane, you fight Wolnir? That is just speculation.
5. Ocelotte was a child of Oceiros, King of Lothric. He might be invisible, he might be dead, who really knows.
6. The Nameless King is speculated to be Gwyn's Firstborn.
7. I got nothing.
8. A few different theories here. The Kiln is definitely some other dimension, as is shown through DS I. As such, it probably doesn't follow the natural rules of time and space. The Untended Graves may be the future, in an Age of Dark, or it may be some forgotten past, when Champion Gundyr was unable to Link the Flame.
9. If you follow the "Untended Graves=Future" theory, it is possible she just stuck around. If you follow the "Untended Graves=Past" theory, it may be that she was meant to be Gundyr's shrinemaiden, and when he didn't show up, she just stuck around.
10. Not sure, could be The Abyss.
>>336022005
Not really.
Killing Gwyndolin was completely optional and the events of not doing so would have played out into what happens in DS3.
A optional boss fight in DS3 isn't not canon. Just the fight isn't cannon but the character is.
the dragon lady in 1 was a optional boss fight. She is still canon.
>>336022370
How do you travel in time?
All I did was beat a dragon and walk down a hallway?
I touched nothing.
>>336021689
>her husband
Who? Where? Explain?
>>336022434
Time is convoluted, ain't gotta explain shit
time and space is warped in Lordran lololol we don't gotta explain shit!
>>336022426
>>336022426
You guys are so quick to say time is convoluted for explaining retarded questions but on the case of Gwyndolin you immediately go for not canon.
It would make more sense from a story perspective to say that a different Chosen Undead could have killed Gwyndolin in a different time, but the timeline you are playing in, the Chosen Undead did not decide to kill Gwyndolin.
That makes way more sense than saying lol didnt happen.
Do you really think Miyazaki wrote out the setpieces of the game saying "yeah, lets jut retcon Gwyndolin boss fight" no, he has a reason. It's not just not canon.
>>336022651
Happening in a different timeline is just as relevant as it never happening. By that logic, everything is canon. Solaire linking is canon, Solaire not linking is canon, Solaire being corrupted is canon, etc. And it's technically right, but it doesn't matter. What matters is the world we're playing in during DS3, and the events that led to it.
>>336021426
who cares?
>>336022651
Glad someone brought this up. There is a reason for a lot of the stuff in DS III, and I think people don't really understand that. There is a reason history seems to be blatantly contradicted.
>>336021426
Is it actually confirmed that one of the Abyss Watchers is corrupted by the abyss? I got the impression that one of the Abyss Watchers understood why you were there and wanted to help you out by fighting the others.
>>336021426
>>336021689
I don't think Gwyndolin or Priscilla are really a concern as far as how did Aldritch eat bosses you killed in Darks 1 when He also has parts of Nito in him and the player character would have had to have killed Nito in order to finish the game.
>>336021426
>7. The Soul of Cinder, how did it exactly come into creation? Wouldn't the same have happened to Gwyn?It's you AND Gwyn from the first game, this is an alternate ending where you become pals and link the flame together, then after eons of jerking one another (as pals) you decide to mind meld into the same being.
>>336023069
He could have gotten the Gravelord sword just by eating somebody in the covenant, and the bones just by eating a ton of people. The aura is only an aura of death, which would fit around something like Aldrich. Really, until we have confirmation that he ate Nito, it doesn't make any sense that he did.
>>336023069
>He also has parts of Nito in him
Aldrich ate people, Nito is King Skellington the First but not all Skellingtons are Nito.
aldrich is sexy
I thought of the Untended Graves and Firelink as something like the Hunters Dream and the Workshop from Bloodborne. My suspicion is that the Untended Graves is the Firelink that exists in the real world where the Firelink that we start in is a sort of fabrication or memory. Not really sure where Kiln of the First Flame fits in to that though.
>>336023143
Technicallyyou have already melded, by taking Gwen's soul into yourself.
Holy shit, everyone who thinks Untended Graves is in the future, or an alternate world, or the true world, please fucking educate yourselves and stop with the stupid debunked theories.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5mHuSFRzZM
The game seems to be going for some compression of space thing with the lands themselves being drawn together from what I gather, why not time too?
Did Aldrich consumed Nito as well? He sure uses Nito's great sword.
I just assumed that Aldrich was actually Gwyndolin
>>336022326
I suppose he was just tricked by primordial serpents who have a huge hate boner towards dragons.
Pls
>>336022036
>>336023359
That really doesn't say anything of substance.
>>336022036
magic
>>336021426
>>336023069
I thought rather than Aldritch eating the optional bosses you might have not killed, he instead just found their remains later on and devoured them then. The game never says he ate them alive and I think it is an important distinction as far as his power level goes. Could be a similar situation to how Domnhall always conveniently scooped up the boss armor after you kill a boss.
>>336023369
>time compression
>>336023542
It's unique dialogue only added if you meet the Untended handmaiden first. If you think it means anything other than her recognizing you, you're just trying to justify your own headcanon. It was placed there for a reason.
I always thought the Lord of Cinder is your player from DS1 after he linked the fire
>>336023429
Not Nito himself but obviously some sort of his soul shard. If he had the same degree of control over the power of death and disease as Nito on top of moon magic of Gwyndolin he would be impossible to kill.
>>336022003
>8. Time and space fuckery. Dark firelink is in the past. If you speak to dark firelink's handmaiden before hub firelink's, the hub firelink maiden will recognize you.
Wait seriously? Is this confirmed?
>>336023731
Here's the video >>336023359
>Acidentally do a Halberd R2 into the Untended Graves Handmaiden.
>Go back to Firelink.
>Handmaiden still there.
EXPLAIN THAT PAST THEORISTS.
>>336023248
Why is he a mermaid?
>>336023645
>If you think it means anything other than her recognizing you, you're just trying to justify your own headcanon.
I admit that much, what it doesn't say is what she recognises you as or what for.
No substance.
>>336021426
So Aldrich is that blob in the intro video? How does Aldrich go from blob form to boss form?
>>336022862
Everyone in this thread but you obviously
>>336023645
You're the one making it fit your headcanon that it's "in the past" because she "recognizes you" (thou art is pretty fucking vague mate). It could be anything, like the fact you're a multi-dimensional traveler and she's bounded to the shrine in every dimension.
>>336023773
Alternate timeline.
Do you even John Titor?
>>336023773
She's an undead, if you kill her in Firelink and rest at a bonfire she respawns and yells at you about it. Bitch can't die, same with Andre.
>>336023813
She only recognizes you if you met her in Untended Graves first. That's the trigger. Which means she's recognizing you from when you wandered in at some point in the past.
>>336023773
This is actually pretty conclusive, not gonna lie. Maybe they are different then, and being the handmaiden to firelink is like a shift of work?
They clock in and sit there for a couple hundred years and then clock out for a new one for awhile.
>>336023596
Read any items relating to the Pontiff. He was the one that captured Gwyndolin he's the one that throws him to Aldrich. So at least Gwyndolin was alive when Aldrich got him.
Probably kept Gwyndolin as a fucboi for a while.
>>336023773
Every time you kill her she raises the prices of her shop. Is it more expensive?
In first PV I didn't have high expectation to Aldrich thought he is just another gloomy slime monster.
Who could have imagine he played such a huge role in DaS3, you can say almost 70% os senario is dealing with him and his army.
>>336023821
he puts on a fancy hat and pulls the rest of his blob ass together.
>>336022426
Corvian Greatscythe refers to priscilla in present tense.
She also apparently has a whole cult of bird people wandering around road of sacrifices.
Priscilla probably gonna show up in painted world dlc
>>336021426
Alright
1. >If you look into the Abyss, the Abyss looks into you"
2. He discovered Vore and it grew on him
3. Optional boss. Same for Priscilla and the other Asylum demon
4. Wolnir is trying to save himself from being sucked into the abyss (constantly grasping and moving foward). The moment you defeat him, he gets sucked in
5. Invisibible baby/ neverborn of the King. He didn't take it well either way.
6. Gwyn's firstborn and probably Ornstein mentor
7. It's an auto mechanism of defence of the Flame
8. Time is convoluted especially when the flame starts dying out
9. I honestly don't know that and it's creeping me out
10. I see manus
>>336023906
>>336023884
If >>336023884 is right, the past theory is probably right.
>>336023912
Not that I've noticed.
>>336023821
He penetrated Gwyndolin with his huge black cock and hides the rest of his own body below the boss room. It's not even known how much black goo there is down there.
>>336023932
Not really. You're dealing with the Pontiff's shit, not Aldrich's. Aldrich is his fat pet, Wouldn't surprise me if he was the one that helped Aldrich go from cleric in his religion to blob god.
>>336022326
Maybe they wanted to live in the surface and not underground like some kind of moels
>>336022036
This is ultra speculation, but the game does say that the lands of the lords of cinder converge. It does seem like they keep the same climate as where they were previously, boreal is snowy, crab woods are flooded. Presumably, the lands are still in the same place where they were previously, but by converging, you can still get to them from other places. So boreal valley may just be so far away from the fucked up sun over lothric, it isn't visible.
>>336023886
OR the Untended Graves is the future, where the fire has gone out, and she's recognizing you from the future because her eternal soul is bound to the shrine in all timelines.
>>336022651
I never killed Gwyndolin, but i did kill Andre in DS1. Why is Andre in DS3?
>>336023886
It alludes to much but says nothing.
I don't mind the theory but it needs more solid founding.
>>336024161
In that case, she would recognize you no matter what.
So in aldrich's boss room, is all the black goop on the ground aldrich's blob body, and he's merely controlling the nito/gwyndolin thing like a puppet?
>>336023907
Oh yeah true that bro.
Would this relate into that one anons theories that the different sequel games to souls are alternate universes where different endings took place in DS1 or Demon's? Because if so you could definitely argue this one as being the one where the chosen undead fully obeyed Frampt's plan to light the fire and all that.
>>336022434
The dark skies firelink is in the same point in time as the rest of darksouls, except kiln and the normal firelink.
>>336022446
Do Sirris' quest. Holy Knight Hodrick of the Mound Makers is Sirris' grandfather and husband to the merchant.
>>336023932
Is that some sort of crown amidst all that goop?
What IS the abyss exactly?
>>336021426
>Criken begins DS3 series
>Vaati is with him again
>Named his character 'Gwyn's Firstborn'
>Fat guy in Sunlight Helmet
I'll admit, I chuckled.
>>336024206
How so?
Past you is in Firelink still, where you haven't met yet, and future you makes it to Untended Graves later on. She wouldn't recognize you until you went into the future.
It's implied that the Nameless King is the first born. That's common knowledge, right?
>>336024243
It's definitely a sequel to the kindling the flame ending, that's for sure. That theory can only exist because DS2's story is so vague and unconnected though, so it's hard to place it in relation to the others.
>>336023773
If you kill her in the present she comes back with higher prices.
Which means she can't die (like the firekeeper)
>>336021426
>Where exactly did we fight High Lord Wolnir at?
The deep obviously
>>336024235
No, Gwyndolin is just commiting atrocities under the guise being a sockpuppet and getting away with by blaming the corpse of a saint.
If they're called the Abyss Watchers you can assume their duty is to Watch the Abyss, so the obvious question is why do they wear hats that cover their eyes?
>>336024107
Yeah I still can't believe that half of the shit is happening in the game was part of Sulyvahn's keikaku
>>336024313
Entropy.
>>336024404
Nah nah, it was the abyss, or near it. Deep would be wet.
>>336024313
Manus' Humanity going fucking bananas.
>>336023143
he's definitely reminiscent of the chosen undead + gwyn and other linkers of the flame
>>336022005
Gwendolyn is an optional boss, but he exists. Any information you get from his questline (the illusion, Gwynivere's absence, the real state of Anor Londo, anything his gear says about him) is canon, even if his death is not.
Same thing for the Nameless King. Whether or not killing him is canon, the information found about him in DS3 is canon.
>>336024313
the darkest side of man
so there are place in the dark souls world where people actually live a normal lives?
but then apocalypse happen everything get fucked until someone rekindle the fire again
what happens in the apocalypse and who and why we had kill the lord of cinder?
Dark Souls 3 Comprehensive Lore Summary:
1. From Software wanted to throw in as much fanservice as possible so the entire game mostly consists of references to the first game
2. Since they don't have to literally tell a story in their game they can just lazily connect it all together incoherently and without much effort.
3. Since the lore is just item descriptions and environmental details, players get tricked into thinking there is a lot of depth to it and they try their best to connect everything together, when in reality this format of storytelling just leaves way too many gaps so a good chunk of what people think is canon is just grasping at straws and filling in the gaps with their own headcanon.
Just stop guys, it's sad. The format of Dark Souls lore worked when it was fairly simple and straight forward with the first game but when it just needlessly tries to connect itself for fanservice there is just too much they can get away with by just vaguely throwing shit in the game for the sake of it. When it's lazily strung together like this, it gets too easy to just pass off criticism as people missing subtleties but you know it's true.
>>336021426
1. Abyssal taint. Even dragons succumb to it, it works like a parasite that burst out from a host at some point.
2. He predicted the coming of some age of deep sea and decided to accumulate as much power as possible to save his own ass.
3. You're pretty fucking delusional if you think that we really fought Gwyndolin in DS1 and not just his illusion carrying a small part of his soul. Just compare his bow skills to the real thing, in DS1 he could only shoot a small volley of arrows and in DS3 he goes full shmup on your sorry ass.
4. Have you missed the fact that catacombs of carthus are connected to headquarters of abyss watchers? It was obviously abyss sealed within that artifact.
5. Not explained. Either Yorshka or DLC.
6. Firstborn. Gwyn is dead and Firstborn was next in line so even though he rebelled against his father he's still the only one who is suited to be called a king of gods.
7. Literally an immense amount of sovereignless souls that gained some sort of primitive consciousness just because of how vast its accumulated power was.
8. They exist in either different times or different dimensions. I actually suspect that "current" firelink is the one that we only reach in the very final of the game.
9. Same reason there's multiple firelinks.
10. Dark sign. Probably connected to that thing in the skies.
What is up with the hollows worshiping trees and eventually turning into them? Something to do with the giants? Ive always wondered about the significance of them ever since the network test came out
>>336021426
More than half of these have pretty clear answers tho...
Lord of Cinder's Strength in Lore wise.
Ashen One>Chosen Undead>Aldrich>Yhorm>Abyss Watchers>Gay bros>Who Went Beyoned Death
No objection, right?
Kind of upset that you can't really visit the abyss in this game.
Hope the DLC shows it off, or maybe the Deep
>>336024679
Apocalypse happens whenever the First Flame starts to go out. Undead start appearing, they start to go Hollow, and then start fucking everything up. If it goes too long without being linked, the world itself starts to fall apart like in DaS3.
You needed to kill the Lords of Cinder to take their power so you could link the Flame again and give it more juice.
>1. Why were the Abyss Watchers fighting each other?
They went mad from hunting the abyss for so long. Maybe they realized the humanity within them is part of the abyss and so they self destructed.
>2. How did Aldrich go from a regular saint into a destroyer of gods?
He had a vision of a future without the fire, an age of deep waters. He liked what he saw and so he started to pursue that goal. Eventually he became a blob and pontiff ended up locking him in anor londo, where gwyndolin just happened to be hiding still. Eventually he found him and ate him.
>3. How can Aldrich consume Gwyndolin if Gwyndolin was killed in Dark Souls 1?
Optional boss means at least one player didn't kill him. Dark souls 3 takes place in that players canon.
>4. Where exactly did we fight High Lord Wolnir at?
Contained abyss
>5. Who is Ocelotte and where did they go?
Ocireses last hope for a healthy heir, mixed with his research of ancient text and dragons. Possibly a great one involved as was the case with the queen of yarnam. More than likely resulted in a stillbirth, as all surrogate children of great ones do.
6. The Nameless King, who is he? How can he have no name and still be a King? What is he even a King of?
Gwyns firstborn, stricken from history for siding with dragons.
>7. The Soul of Cinder, how did it exactly come into creation? Wouldn't the same have happened to Gwyn?
Amalgamation of previous fire linker souls.
>8. How can there be 3 versions of Firelink all existing at the same time? (Firelink Shrine, Untended Graves, Kiln of the First Flame)
Time is convoluted.
9. Why is the Shrinemaiden in the Untended Graves?
That's a younger version of her. She can not die, so she's always there.
10. What exactly is this moving around in the Firekeepers visor? Humanity?
Darkness in general, to keep them blind.
What is the closest to official timeline of the series?
Armored Core to King's Field to Shadow Tower to Demon's to Darks to Bloodborne?
>>336024735
>I don't like it so you're not allowed to like it either!
See you next thread.
>rescue a prisoner
>they vanish into thin air and appear in firelink right after
If they could do that all along why wait until some faggot ashen one arrives, are there any reasons for that besides gameplay, do they need like "someone to follow" for that teleport ability to manifest? it's the PC who actually teleports them?
>>336024679
I know this answer for Dark Souls 1
During the apocalypse places are leading normal lives except some are affected by a curse that leads them to hollow. To stop everyone from hollowing you need to link the flame (hypothetically)
Who knows why we had to kill soul of cinder. maybe because Gwyn's will was the strongest to defend the first flame.
>>336023069
is this an AD reference?
>>336024898
You give them a homeward bone, it is the same effect and sound.:^)
>>336024321
I thought Vaati was great in Criken's DS2 vids - he didn't use that completely forced serious voice we know him for. Too bad Criken's latest stuff is him roleplaying a retard with stunning accuracy
WHY IS ANDRE IN FIRELINK SHRINE NIGGA YOU MUST BE LIKE THOUSANDS OF YEARS OLD NOW
>>336024794
>chosen undead and bearer of the curse
>lords of cinder
You dont fucking understand this at all, do you
>>336024874
>See you next thread
You sure will :^)
>>336025079
why bother making a new model when soulsfags are more than happy to see the same one recycled? can you blame them?
ALDRITCH DID NOT EAT PRISCILLA. READ DESCRIPTIONS.
Why is the darklink handmaiden selling artorias piece?
>>336024898
It's identical to the homeward bone animation/sound. Make of that what you will
Stay at home, be a good boy.
Your big bro is gonna literally fuck the dragon.
>>336023932
Pretty much the entire game is Lothric/Ocerios and Pontiff Sulyvahns fault
>>336025079
He just really loves his craft. As long as undead is focused on something he won't go mad and Andre is the most focused undead ever. He won't succumb to the curse as long as he has that one estoc he rapes with his hammer endlessly.
>>336025079
You ever wonder about that identical stone version of andre in the moonlight butterfly tower in Das1?
Yeah.
>>336025079
>tfw he mourns his giantsmithbro in Anor Londo
Dark Souls 3 lore is like MGS5. It just needlessly tries to bring everything together for no reason but fan service. I was expecting the world/lore in this one to be more creative.
>>336025079
He Smiths some shit, when the fire is linked he goes to sleep or some shit, when the worlds going to hell, he wakes up, picks up his hammer and gets to banging that anvil. He lives for this shit, he's got a boner for forging and so he'll never hollow.
>>336025218
Imagine what could happen if Firstborn was still around and on Gwyn's side.
If someone would even thing about touching his little bro he would be annihilated in an instant.
>>336021426
My take on the Abyss Watchers:
>They are a bunch of regular enough dudes watching the abyss.
>Hear someone is coming to take them back.
>They don't want to go back.
>Hold a massive free-for-all to find a champion.
>He gets all the wolf's blood.
>>336025334
Both of these do the opposite of that other than a couple side things that are nigh meaningless.
>>336025021
>>336025021
>homeward bone animation/sound
Is it really, it's always been to fast for me to notice.
So do you actually get subtracted a bone whenever you rescue someone?
>>336025420
>So do you actually get subtracted a bone whenever you rescue someone?
No because that would be pretty bullshit for not having any.
>>336025420
No. I guess they had one of their own? It's a bit of an asspull but hey I guess they needed some kind of justification for how people who cant use bonfires to teleport get back to firelink.
>>336025381
No they are corrupted by the very thing they hunt. They attack each other because they are succumbing to the Abyss.
>>336025263
Well, Andre in DaSIII is as old as the Anor Londo Blacksmith Giant, so even if he's not the same Andre that helped the Chosen Undead, he's still old as fuck.
>>336025079
He is unkindled
Unkindled are rising from their graves
>>336025079
I think he is just a guy that managed to not go insane or die for a very long time.
>>336025218
>>336025376
>Your big bro is gonna literally fuck "with" dragon.
Why reality is so cruel.
>>336025376
>he didn't save him
>>336025525
What even are Unkindled? What sets them apart from regular undead?
>>336025183
Because it's in an alternate reality where Gundyr failed and no one (AKA Lothric) linked the fire.
The untended graves has been consumed by the abyss
>>336024313
In the first game the 3 lords find brilliant white souls, that they then use to create a world based on the power of flame.
The Furtive Pygmy (Manus) found the dark soul, which he used to create a world of dark (the abyss). Humans are derivative of the dark soul, so they naturally seek to return it. In the first game New Londo and Oolacile, both of the human cities, were the source of the abyss rising up.
Probably get to see more of this from one of the expansions, seeing as they keep hinting at Londor (probably New Londo, given it's the realm of Kaath).
>>336025376
That is kind of sad. If The Firstborn had been around, maybe Gwyndolin could have lived.
Who is this guy exactly? Where did he get that Chaos Blade before Ashen one stole it from him?
>>336025579
They're made out of ash.
They aren't traditional undead at all, they're literally reconstituted ash. It's why you bleed fucking ash.
>>336025551
At least Gwynevere probably died happily, if she's dead, she had a ton of kids and lived to see the flame being linked again.
>>336023704
>running to dodge arrow rain
>grave swords pop up in front of you
>nothing can die in this universe thanks to the undead curse
>super powerful bosses however
>they are mortal and die when some faggot eventually respawns enough times to take them down
Explain this.
>>336025659
he's a high level weeb
Not really a lore-related question, or maybe it is? but why sometimes when you arrive to Firelink there's a fog gate covering the exits as if you're getting invaded/summoned.
I think it happens both off and online.
Surely the if the game operates on a cycle, the flame will make similar things happen within each cycle? (poetry-wise)
There's always a king fallen from grace
There's always a dragonslayer
There's an aged blacksmith who's pretty good at his craft
There's always a grand cathedral of sorts.
There's a princess.
Does the flame cause these things to happen or is it just the nature of the in-game universe and thing's just happen to occur?
>>336025659
>Sword Master
>Chaos Blade
No.
>>336024107
Its confirmed, read the description of the deep braille tome you get outta cathedral.
Pontiff sully slipped perverse pages into the religious documents of the cathedral, once the holding place/sealing ground of evil. Literally everything is pontiffs fault, even the release of the abyss upon the watchers.
>>336025539
Firstborn chose his own fate, lived his life free, surpassed his own father in terms of power and died in battle. He has one of the best stories and endings in series.
>>336025743
I'm forced to assume its some kind of shitty loading screen.
>>336025745
They're just common fantasy tropes, you're overthinking it. You could draw lines between common aspects of the three games all day, and it wouldn't mean anything.
>>336025714
The souls never actually die. The lord souls just get passed down, they're always derivative of the being that came before them.
Humans also have dark souls, which function differently.
>>336025743
I take it they decided to have that area load when you are in Firelink so that the loading time to get to Firelink would be faster.
Most of the time you go to Firelink you don't need anything that's outside.
>>336025743
Loading the rest of the map so you dont have to sit through a 5 minute loading screen to level up
>>336021426
lmao who fuckin cares
>>336025807
>surpassed his own father in terms of power
No he didn't.
This isn't irrelevant to the OP but my brother in law and I came up with some funny headcannon for Smough.
>telling brother in law about Nameless King, saying he's basically first born
>continue telling him how you find Ornstein's armor there, and that the original may just be an illusion
>we start talking about Smough, I say that the only reason he stood at his post was he wanted to be a knight of Gwyn really bad
>Smough was basically "that kid" that just kind of lingered around the cool kids
>when Gywn knew shit was fucked he gave Smough the worst job
>Gwyndolin also created the Ornstein illusion to help Smough because they knew he was way too fucking incompetent to defend the throne by himself
tl;dr: Smough is a "that kid" and no one liked him.
>>336025751
Yes.
He uses chaos blade when summoned. You also get it from his corpse in untended graves.
>>336025721
>Hehe, they call me the Sword Master.
>Nothing Personal, kid.
Who's the bitch who is across the invisible bridge anyway? Why didn't she get eaten?
>>336022036
Only argument people can make to that question is that you never see anyone walk to firelink. Everyone, as far as we know, teleports there. So it could be fake, could be in a different world, could be an oversight and they forgot that skybox. Who the fuck knows
>>336025743
This
>>336025843
The assumption is most of the time you're coming back just to level up or buy things, so the outside is loaded after if you go near it to save time on the initial load.
>tfw I put a message in firelink shrine
>go to darklink shrine much later
>the same message is there with the same amount of ratings, in the same place
WHAT
ARE
THE
IMPLICATIONS
>>336025948
Even the combined power of soul of cinder and Gwyn as we fight him in DS1 ain't as over the top as shit Firstborn can do.
>>336023886
Fucking this. Gundyr's armor also confirms that Untended Graves is in the past.
>Gundyr, or the Belated Champion, was bested by an unknown warrior. He then became sheath to a coiled sword in the hopes that someday, the first flame would be linked once more.
>>336025956
aint headcannon.
Thats basically what actually happenned in game. At least Smough was honored in Death, his armor being displayed at the gallery of irithyll
>>336025996
She implies at one point that pontiff captured her...
Headcanon says that she was next after Aldritch finished digesting.
>>336025996
Yorshka, Gwyndolin's 'sister'. Despite his father being dead and him living in the city where the one woman who looks like her is guarded and that she named her, she's his 'sister.'
>>336026079
>whatdidyouaboutmeyoulittlebitch.jpb
>what did you about me you little bitch
gj
>Untended Graves is the past.
It's the present, Firelink Shrine is the future. UG connects to Lothric Castle where FS would connect if FS was the present.
>>336022651
>It would make more sense from a story perspective to say that a different Chosen Undead could have killed Gwyndolin in a different time, but the timeline you are playing in, the Chosen Undead did not decide to kill Gwyndolin.
>That makes way more sense than saying lol didnt happen.
The fuck? No it doesn't.
The story is just that Gwyndolin wasn't killed by the Chosen Undead. That's not an impossible thing to fathom; that's just how it played out for how Das3's story was written.
By your logic, if I killed Patches in Dark Souls, why isn't he dead here? Or Andre, you can off that fucker as well. The canon is as Miyazaki states; that's the definition of canon.
>>336025768
What did Pontiff have to do with the Abyss Watchers? To me, it seemed like those two parts felt a little disconnected from one another.
>>336022075
>>336022370
I don't believe this is true, though I admit Gundyr's gear is a bit odd. It would APPEAR as though it's in the past, but remember: Untended Graves is the ONLY version of Firelink that's attached to the actual world.
Also of note: when you bring the firekeeper's eyes back, Ludleth all but admits that the version of firelink you're in is constructed.
>>336025263
I believe in an interview or the design works it was explained that those are different people, they just used Andre's model as a hint for who the player should give the ember to. Pretty dumb regardless.
OKAY
So darklink shrine is in the past
Why the fuck do you go to it? Why is it connected to the main geography of the game, whereas firelink shrine isn't? Is the entire fucking game set in the past?
>>336026247
Nothing? Not EVERYTHING is related to Sully, you know.
>>336023056
He has red eyes, just like all the abyss corrupted enemies (like those hollows that transform into black spludge). Plus he attacks you as well, he just attacks the closest target
>>336025714
Not NOTHING. Only those actually afflicted by the Undead Curse, which was never 100% of the population. You can tell someone had the undead curse by the big swirling sphincter of darkness on their back in hollow form, the Darksign.
The bosses aren't undead cursed. Thus, they die for real real and not for play play
>>336025956
That's hardly a headcanon. It's basically entirely true.
>>336023359
its not in the fucking past
its literally the real one
the illusion realized you met the real one and has a brain fart
>>336025659
More importantly, why the fuck is he in the untended graves? Did he fight Gundyr and beat him, and after discovering nobody was waiting for him in the firelink, stayed there until the hollowing kicked in?
>>336026006
Watch the opening cinematic very very carefully.
You can see the firekeeper at the room you start at in lothric castle putting on her visor.
The attendent at dark fireling makes reference to "the cursed girl"
Put two and two together.
Dark Firelink is the real one, whilst the one we use is most likely a physical manifestetion created by the firekeeper, based on her memories of dark firelink.
The place probably transcends the boundaries of space and time, while being grounded very much in reality by the links to all the bonfires, hence why npcs slip in and out of it, because they too use the bonfires.
Our firelink is an extension of the firekeepers psyche, anon.
>>336026120
She's not his sister. She just is repeating the Darkmoon mantra which was created by Gwyndolin.
>>336024323
Then she wouldn't recognize you at all since she would be present/past herself in Firelink along with you.
>>336026391
I'm not saying Pontiff has anything to do with The Abyss Watchers, I was asking the anon why they thought Pontiff was, which was implied through the whole "everything is Pontiffs fault, even the release of the Abyss."
>>336026262
>Also of note: when you bring the firekeeper's eyes back, Ludleth all but admits that the version of firelink you're in is constructed.
He doesn't. All he says is that the eyes showed a possible world without Fire, therefore he got scared and decided to link the Fire in order to stop it from happening. This is an undisputed fact too as he sees nightmares about burning if you kill him, then return to Firelink to see him resurrected and crying in his sleep.
>>336025245
>inb4 at the and of the game, after doing all the dlc, he's gone and in his place you find a +11 estoc
>>336026558
but she exists in all timelines simultaneously; you don't
>>336026262
I wrote this and after watching the video
>>336026301
is the only possible explanation I can see as possible.
I honestly just don't know. How do people find themselves in this "Nexus"-like firelink that you meet in the technical past?
It's all very odd
>>336026519
I think he's just a random awoken Unkindled that went hollow.
>How can Aldrich consume Gwyndolin if Gwyndolin was killed in Dark Souls 1?
Why's people even asking this so much?
It's clear canonically you just didn't fight him or he was yet another illusion.
Or maybe you didn't kill him just weakened him and that's why he falls ill.
How exactly did Gundyr fail?
In his prime he could have kicked any lord of cinders ass
>>336026747
>bested by an unknown warrior
>>336026732
he was canonically in Anor londo. It's stated he was the last living deity there.
>>336026747
He was too late to link the fire bro. Not that he was incapable.
>>336026680
Unless she's traveling back and forth in time than no, present her cannot know what future her knows.
Untended Graves is in the past, fucking deal with it until you bring forth information that she's somehow moving thru time of her own accord.
>>336026747
He showed up too late. He was late to the party and someone else was handling it, so he got super sad and just waited for someone to show up.
>>336026747
Parried to hell and back by either player or this guy >>336025659
>>336026849
Still doesn't mean CU ever killed him.
>>336026247
The abyss, the spread of it is/was stamped out By the chosen undead, and bearer of the curse.
Sully is seen to have ties with the abyss due to his use of his deep clones, a technique used by four kings and Darklurker.
These show he has power/uses the abyss.
the deep braille tome also tells tales of dark miracles/sorceries. The dark hexes and such.
Things only found in post-abyss fucked oolacile.
Needless to say, with darkwraiths in such close proximity to the cathedral as well, and Sully's use of Abyss clones in his fight, its easy to see he meddled with Abyss watchers on his way to irithyll.
HE KEEPS GETTING WORST THE MORE YOU LOOK INTO IT
>>336026421
Vendrick in DS2 disappears after you kill him despite him being undead.
>>336026639
I was almost positive he says something to the effect that BECAUSE of the the world he saw in the firekeeper's eyes he constructs the current version of firelink. I could also be wrong, I mean that video posted in the thread seems to prove me wrong about Untended being the future, as it only makes sense to be the past.
But that means current firelink would be the future. So then shouldn't the Dark-Sign in the sky be there from the very beginning, as that WILL eventually happen? Time is confusing...
>>336026926
Not saying you're entirely wrong but Abyss =/= Deep.
>>336026924
Ii wasn't addressing that part but I agree
>>336026747
How did he show up too late if he's in the PAST FUCK I DONT UNDERSTAND
>>336024794
>Who Went Beyoned Death
BEARER. OF. THE. CURSE.
Jesus christ.
>>336027062
Orbital wobble
>>336024323
this level of headcanon and delusion is why its impossible to discuss the lore of these games. you get an otherwise simple answer to a vague question posed by the game and then mongoloids come in offering needlessly complicated alternatives and act as though that is somehow more likey
At least bloodborne had some pretty concrete lore and very little speculation regarding what the old ones/nightmares were, but dark souls is written to be as convoluted and unintelligible as possible. Its literally the Donnie Darko of video games that pseudo intellectual 20 somethings flock to
>>336026926
Don't forget that Sully also has the same face and wings as Pilgrim Butterflies, highly advanced abyss spawns.
>>336027062
It was too late to link the fire, world was consumed by dark age, he got corrupted by the abyss.
>>336026664
my sides
>>336027062
There are multiple Ages of Fire, anon.
>>336026920
Sword Master gets decimated if you summon him for Gundyr
Speaking of, how is the sword master even at the untended graves?
>>336027062
He showed up too late for the previous linking of the flame, you kicked his ass, and he just sat there with the coiled sword through his chest until the next linking, the current one.
>>336026926
Can we get a tally of everything this motherfucker has done/may have done?
>Stole the dancer
>Fucked his own soldiers up mentally
>Fed gods to a disgusting blob
>Fucked with The Abyss
>Seems to have fucked up The Abyss Watchers
What an asshole.
>>336023812
He's not. He's sludge. Do you remember what the floor was made out of when you fought Aldrich? Sludge.
THAT was Aldrich.
>>336026976
Someone already posted this theory somewhere, but
Untended Graves = Past (the whole game world might happen in past)
Regular Firelink = Current time or separated from the "real world"
Flameless Shrine = Future (the different lands literally converge and are sucked together even more)
>>336027062
>fires keep going out throughout time
>people keep showing up to deal with it
>Gundyr was too slow, someone else was dealing with it
>got sad and decided to throw a tantrum when you showed up
>gets bodied by you again in the future / your timeline
It's not that hard anon.
>>336026849
So what?
You definitely didn't kill him canonically.
What was the Pontiff's plan anyway? Using Aldrich to stop the kindling of the Flame?
>>336027206
>>336027175
But you show up in the FUTURE but it's not too late FOR YOU? Do you see how this doesn't make sense? How is he too late when there's enough time for you, the player character, to do it. And he didn't seem too corrupted in Untended Graves
>>336027325
Crashing Lothric, with no survivors.
>>336027291
so really it's more like a copy of the last giant/giant lord in dark souls 2
>>336027363
You show up in a different Age of Fire. Completely different flamelinking going on.
>>336027264
>Seems to have fucked up The Abyss Watchers
No?
The abyss watchers have become internally corrupt by their constant fight against, you know, the abyss. They're literally following in Artorias's footsteps, they're all becoming corrupt fighting the abyss just like he did.
When you enter the bossfight, you're entering on a giant brawl between the abyss corrupted Watchers and the normal watchers. Note how when a second watcher joins the battle, he is basically identical to the primary watcher, and the two do not fight. Then suddenly a THIRD watcher joins, this one with GLOWING RED EYES, and immediately one of the "normal" watchers peel off to go fight it.
Like seriously this is the most unambiguous question posed in Das3, there need not be any debate on it.
>>336027467
Pretty much, yeah.
>>336027325
guess he might have been preparing for the deep or something, I still don't know what those wings he grows are supposed to be for
>>336026664
>he appears in final battle of final DLC when you struggle against unbeatable enemy and goes full Kittan with his Estoc, absolutely faceraping everything on his way so you could actually fight the boss
>>336027493
The abyss watchers are panicking after the reappearence of the Darkwraiths.
Two of them literally are making their way to the boss chamber when you get there.
>>336027493
The anon I was replying to was implying that the spread of The Abyss was being artificially quickened by Pontiff, which inadvertently affects The Abyss Watchers.
>>336027684
>reappearance
>implying they ever left
It's outright stated that the one locked underneath High Wall has been there for a very long time. The Darkwraiths never went anywhere, there's just never been an exceptionally large amount of them.
Also I'm pretty sure the Abyss Watchers aren't panicking about anything other than the corruption of their own ranks. They're a bit preoccupied.
>>336026870
Did you read the post, dude? Guy claimed she exists in all timelines. Simultaneously. She's omnipresent, because "convoluted lol".
Which may or may not be true, but if it IS true, then she is aware of herself and her experiences past, present and, more importantly, future.
Also, why all this discussion about time as a forward-moving entity? What if all the Firelinks in game exist at the same time, superimposed upon each other? If time is truly convoluted, that implies some massive quantum fuckery, not just time travel.
>>336027684
>The abyss watchers are panicking after the reappearence of the Darkwraiths.
No they aren't, they're too busy fighting each other. They probably don't even know they're here because half of the watchers in the keep are infected by the abyss
And even if the Darkwraiths did make it to them they'd still get ganked
>>336027798
Yeah well he's wrong. I couldn't be fucked explaining why because he's just really fucking wrong.
>>336027127
In Jap's faraam armor discription it implies Bearer of the curse is the one who beyond death.(絶望をくべる者)
>>336027283
I would have to agree with this.
I would assume that the version of firelink you're in isnt real at all (again, I can't remember exactly what Ludleth says, but it would maybe explain why he seems so weakened: since he's using all of his power to create an entirely different world).
Pros:
-This explains why the darksign sky never shows up/isn't always there
-Explains why firelink isn't EVEN DARKER than untended (since untentded is the past, if normal firelink is in the future, you'd expect it to be even darker)
Cons:
-Doesn't really explain why the handmaiden recognizes you like the video shows. It would seem to imply a past/future relationship, or at the very least that they're the same person.
-Doesn't explain why the normal firelink version of Gundyr has Pus of Man coming out of him.
I do want to add that we could get more head-canon-y here and say that it's not out of the realm of possibility that the normal version of firelink Gundyr is meant as a proving ground (you fight him for the coiled sword, which will then let you warp to the normal world, proving you're at least a little worthy). It's obvious that this was not the intention of Champion Gundyr, who seems to have some to firelink to light the flame but got there "too late" (which, how? if you're not too late).
All in all, it's confusing, and we obviously don't have definitive answers. I don't even think I agree with myself.
So is that "annals of history" thing really a mispronunciation or just a rumor?
I haven't seen any proof.
So wait, if UG is in the past then why are the chests that you open in FL still open when you go there? Like the chest with the Covetous Silver Serpent ring for example.
>>336027209
How is he alive but Hollow in Cemtery of Ash yet a corpse in Untended?
>>336028032
Who gives a fuck what one random piece of armours description in japanese says, the MC of Das2 is Bearer of the Curse.
Most important question:
>How the fuck was Havel the Rock still alive?
>>336027853
Then she should be selling me her best shit without me bringing her ashes because I've already brought her the ashes, and at max price because I've "killed" her a bunch.
If it's true then it's pretty weird and a little dumb, but fuck it that's all time travel stuff.
As for them all existing at once like that, that's some theoretical shit I'm not smart enough to even begin guessing at.
Why do the dickwraiths even want to fight the Abyss Watchers?
The Watchers are fucked into endlessly killing each other in a room, theres no threat from them anymore
>>336028219
that wasn't havel the rock, just another imitation
>>336028175
Pretty sure that chest is empty no matter what you did with the silver serpent ring chest in FL, obviously whoever put the ring in the chest hadn't done it yet.
>>336021426
Ocelette is Yorshka.
>>336028264
I guess they want to tip the scales in favour of the abyss corrupted watchers? I mean I imagine having to fight the big one whos absorbed the souls of all the other watchers wouldn't be too pleasant.
>>336028320
Well, I can't confirm this but I remember an Anon in another thread saying that if you don't open the chest in FL then it will have the ring in it when you go to UG. I'd be interested to see if that's true because it would make the past-theory a little less believable.
>>336028264
If they ever get their shit together they're firm foes of the abyss
>>336028442
God I hope that isn't true
That'd just fuck with everything
Hang on I think I have a character who never opened that chest, I'll go check.
>>336028204
>random piece of armours description
are you serious?
>>336028229
Assuming that theory is true, she does have all the ashes. In the future. Which, until you reach it, you're not part of. SHE exists in all timelines. You do not. You have to experience time normally.
She can't pull shit from the future to sell you in the past. She's bound by your presence. Get it?
>>336028264
>theres no threat from them anymore
not all of them are corrupted by the abyss, they are still capable of fighting it. The dickwraiths are just taking advantage of the disarray to try and finish them off
>>336028580
I get it, but I don't like it.
>>336028219
>>336028274
See, I saw him. In front of a fucking dead dragon, and he doesn't drop Havel's ring (which specifically states that havel never used it) and thought "this is the real Havel". This is also the very first time we've fought a person wearing Havel's set where they literally use magic to become a fucking rock.
I mean I wouldn't be surprised if he left with Orenstein to go fuck up some dragons and bring back the nameless king/faraam/whatever
>>336028150
The annals of history is mistranslated in one of the items in DaS1 and says the Firstborn "caused the loss of annals", when every other item is translated right and says that HE himself was removed from the annals of history due to his foolishness.
Nameless King being Gwyn's Firstborn is 100% confirmed, and the reason he was removed from history books was due to allying with dragons, who were Gwyn's main enemies. Check the descriptions of
-Sunlight Medal (DaS1)
-The Ring of Sun's Firstborn (DaS3)
-Golden Crown (DaS3)
-Soul of Nameless King, plus both his weapons and miracle (DaS3)
-Leo Ring (DaS3), (mentions Ornstein was first of Firstborn's dragon hunting knights)
>>336028524
>>336028442
Considering the only way to GET to that chest is via the jumping tree glitch, i'd wager FROM didn't anticipate you figuring that out. They locked those upper firelink doors for a reason.
>>336021426
1. Gone hollow
2. Pontiff Syl fed him a god
3. He wasn't found in the canon
4. The abyss maybe
5. Dragon kid kingcreated with seaths magic
6. Gwyn's first son, the god of war that was exiled for siding with the dragons
7. Embodiment of all lords of cinder
8. Not the same time
9. It's either the future or past
10. No idea
>>336028697
Well, time shenanigans aren't for everyone. Again, it's all conjecture. I'm not patient enough to piece everything together, I just read other people's conjecture and hit bad guys with giant swords.
>>336028708
hmm, you might be right
so ornstein left anor londo with the real havel the rock to go find gwyn's son and havel got stuck there and ornstein disappear
>>336028708
But Gwyn explicitly locked Havel in that tower.
If the Nameless King is Gywn's firstborn, then who really is Solaire?
>>336028524
There's another thing, why do we find Andre's hammer in UG? And the Hollow Ashes where Yoel was? I really don't see how UG would be in the past considering these factors. It really seems more likely that UG is the present form of FL, whereas the FL we spend most of our time in is a replication. There are a lot of parallels to how the Hunters Dream operates in BB, all the way up to a change in music when you bring an item from the real zone back to the fake one.
>>336028846
Oh no I like time travel, I just don't like the idea of this bitch holding out on me even tho she isn't but she is.
>>336028219
>>336028274
Havel was Gwyn's partner in crime. He's still alive because he probably has a piece of Gwyn's lordsoul.
How does this guy keep coming back?
>>336028993
Just a really dedicated sunbro.
>>336029005
Fucking called it. UG being in the past seems to be the easiest assumption to make but I definitely do not think it is the correct one.
>>336029036
Oh, yeah. What a cunt.
>>336028993
Solaire was always just a normal guy who was really determined. His armor confirms it.
>>336029071
He's another unkindled, like you.
alternative answer: he's the tom barbadil of souls
>>336029005
I'm pretty sure that's just because it's the exact same area within the gameworld, just a different visibility layer so to speak, so it's just typical from laziness
>>336028862
That's what I assumed. I mean people have said since DaS1 that it's really strange that "Havel" drops havel's ring. And then we meet a few people in 2 who seem to be Havel-knights (which we know there were multiple) and certainly aren't Havel.
The contradiction inherent here is that the "Havel" in the tower in 1 also uses Dragon's Tooth, which is mentioned to ONLY be used by Havel the Rock.
That said, I would say that the Havel we meet in 3 is the real one. I mean he looks like he just killed a fucking dragon (his favorite thing, and I doubt any of his normal knights could do that) and he just happens to be in the same area as one of his other fellow knight-commanders' were/are (if orny is dead, and didn't just give up)
>>336029280
Considering they went through the effort of changing the Shrine Maidens dialogue based if you talk to her in UG first, I really doubt they were just being lazy and didn't think of this. A lot of this nebulous lore shit is very much intentional on Froms behalf.
>>336028993
a skilled knight
nothing in the game ever really hinted at anything else, people just wanted to believe he was the firstborn for some reason
is solaire's armor in ds3? how about ds2
>>336029421
To be fair, you're basically sequence breaking by getting up there in darklink shrine. Like I'm pretty fucking sure from didn't intend for you to be able to do that retarded jump off the tree to get up on the balcony.
>>336029469
ds3 yes
ds2 no
>>336028993
Solaire was always just a very strong guy with a heart of gold, who was seeking his very own sun. His armor description always confirmed this, I don't know why people kept wanting him to be some sort of super secret actually special god person, when he's much more awesome due to the fact that he is just a very determined undead and 10/10 bro.
>>336029469
It's in 3. You trade stuff with the crow chick for it. Don't remember about 2.
>>336029454
because muh prayse the sun xdddd
>>336029085
>>336029179
>>336029454
For an ordinary guy, his armor was preserved for thousands of years. He must be special somewhat.
>>336029606
That's literally the point of his character. He's so ordinary but that's kind of what makes him amazing.
>>336027684
I think most of the abyss watchers have a fucking lot of experience with the darkwraiths
>>336029005
HOLY SHIT YOU FUCKS.
ITS NOT IN THE PAST.
'Dark'link Shrine (Untended Graves) is the real Firelink.
Firelink Shrine is a fake/replica created by Ludleth (Soul Transposition).
>>336029820
It's doubtful that it's created by Ludleth because the Shrine stays even after he dies before going to the Kiln. Probably more likely that it has something to do with the Fire Keeper. Though I suppose it's also possible that the Shrine Maiden has a hand in the illusion considering she's the only real observable constant between the two. Rampant speculation there, though.
>>336029820
>Firelink Shrine is a fake/replica created by Ludleth (Soul Transposition).
Complete fucking bull shit. Literally so overwhelmingly wrong.
>>336029503
.... You know you don't need to use the tree right? If you buy the key that's available to you from the very beginning of the game you can get up there to use the crows legitimately.
Now I need to know if, when that anon goes back to normal firelink: Is the chest open or closed?
If it's closed and you can get 2 Silver Covets: It proves beyond a doubt that untended is in the future. As it would work one way down the timeline but not the other (think chrono trigger).
If it's open and you can't get a second ring: It is inconclusive. This would mean that there isn't a real past/present connection that can be gathered from this evidence.
If they were within a unique time-sequence (can get 2 if you do it one way, or only 1 if you do it reverse) this would prove in which direction time is flowing
>>336027684
They're entire operation was dedicated to ERADICATING abyss wherever it cropped up. They were so good at it they were named Lords of Cinder because of they're prowess. You think 2 dickshit Darkwraiths that have trouble with some inbred degenerate moose people would cause them to panic?
>>336029503
This for sure.
On that note, no nest mess in the spot under Snuggly either.
If the untended graves is not the past, why is gundyr so strong as if he was in his prime?
You kill him the beginning of the game while he was already weak and tainted by the abyss. It would make sense for him to still exist in a past verison of the shrine and be much strong due to it being closer to when he began his wait for a champion.
Kiling him in the future obviously wouldn't kill his past self, but killing the past would destroy the future one.
>>336029820
Educate thyself retard
>>336023359 and >>336026079
Nothing in the game hints at Ludleth being an illusion master or having created the main Firelink shrine. When you bring him the Eyes, he says he got scared due to them showing a possible dark future, and that was the reason he decided to link the Fire. Him linking the Fire is also confirmed due to him seeing nightmares about burning. Even worse are the idiots who say Ludleth is the Soulfeeder when the ring LITERALLY says it is a transposed item.
>>336030151
>If you buy the key that's available to you from the very beginning of the game you can get up there to use the crows legitimately.
Yes, for normal Firelink.
The only way to get there in Darklink is that jump.
>>336023912
nope, tried that myself
>>336030151
>... You know you don't need to use the tree right? If you buy the key that's available to you from the very beginning of the game you can get up there to use the crows legitimately.
What? No you cant. The gate leading up to the tower can't open.
That said I'll go check on the chest.
>>336030174
Well if Firelink is an illusion then it would follow that Iundex Gundyr is as well. It's possible that he isn't a fully realized memory in this form of the Shrine, symbolized both by the corruption and his incomplete moveset. Fucking christ I hope Vaati isn't in here.
>>336026079
Whats the theme with Red Eyes in DS3? That they got corrupted by the Dark or Abyss?
What was Gundyr's story. Wasn't he meant to be the one to link the flame in his world?
>>336021426
>1. Why were the Abyss Watchers fighting each other?
They went nuts
>2. How did Aldrich go from a regular saint into a destroyer of gods?
Healthy diet
>3. How can Aldrich consume Gwyndolin if Gwyndolin was killed in Dark Souls 1?
Not canon
>4. Where exactly did we fight High Lord Wolnir at?
In an open space that can accomodate him and allow devs to not think about level design too hard
>5. Who is Ocelotte and where did they go?
Split identity
>6. The Nameless King, who is he? How can he have no name and still be a King? What is he even a King of?
Gwyn's firstborn. He would be prince, but Gwyn's dead
>7. The Soul of Cinder, how did it exactly come into creation?
It was a cool concept so they put it in the game
>8. How can there be 3 versions of Firelink all existing at the same time? (Firelink Shrine, Untended Graves, Kiln of the First Flame)
>. Why is the Shrinemaiden in the Untended Graves?
Dunno
>10. What exactly is this moving around in the Firekeepers visor? Humanity?
Probably
>>336030158
considering one darkwraith can fuck up abyss watchers in phase one of the fight, i think so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hfz5Lj4FF7w
>>336030449
Yep. They literally watched the Abyss too much.
Yeah, Gundyr was supposed to but didn't do it in time.
>>336028032
>>336028204
That's just a reference to the tagline they marketed DaS2 with. DaS2 was "Go Beyond Death". They even had a poll to choose it.
>>336030449
it's most likely abyss corruption
the abyss enemies from the artorias dlc have red eyes, especially manus. The abyss creatures that come out of hollows, gundyr and the two wyverns at lothric castle always have glowing red eyes and are weak to fire.
That's why the abyss watcher's second form uses a fire sword
>>336030658
>Yeah, Gundyr was supposed to but didn't do it in time.
I assume someone else did then?
Or his section of the world fell into the Dark and the Flame went extremely low (our current world).
He can't have PERMANENTLY failed because then the world would be in pure Darkness.
>>336030367
Ok I checked. The Chest was open.
Interestingly enough, the illusory wall was also open.
I'm pretty sure you're just not meant to get up there.
>>336030556
Dang. If both Dark Wraiths got inside, they could have beaten the boss.
>>336030726
>>336030658
Thanks for the info.
Now its time for the REAL fucking hard Lore shit friends.
What is the difference between the Dark and the Abyss?
We know the latter is the kind of Kaathe/Frampt and corruption.
>>336030726
>That's why the abyss watcher's second form uses a fire sword
No, that's a thing with all the Lords of Cinder. Abyss Watchers, Aldrich, Yhorm and I think also Lothric / Lorian all go into Ember form with fire attacks in their second phase.
>>336030883
Isn't the Dark just humanity?
So why did Anor Londo (or at least a part of it) survive after all these millennia?
>>336030883
There is no difference. The Abyss is kind of just an area of super condensed darkness.
>>336030789
Yeah something had to have happened. Not sure what though.
>>336031087
It was preserved from what I understood by the Pontiff
fight club niggers literally getting btfo right now
>>336030883
The abyss if the true form of darkness. The flame is the only thing keeping it at bay.
Only gullible goys that believe the words of jew serpents think Darkness is anything but evil.
>>336031087
Because Gwyndolin probably.
>>336030974
oh yeah, you're right
>>336030883
Nothing.
You're thinking of the DEEP and the abyss/dark.
Even with that, I'm not at all convinced that they're different.
>>336031087
Its Gwyndolin's base of operations, and he was one of the ringleaders keeping Gwyn's legacy alive. Either the pantheon itself survived even though kingdoms rose and fell at the same spot around it, or Anor Londo being there is one of those "lands of Lords of Cinder converge" thing.
>>336029071
>Implying patches isn't the true gods' avatar, the FromSoft's avatar
He doesn't give a shit and he's all smug because he knows about the other games and other universes.
HE KNOWS
>>336022005
Not everyone killed Gwyndolin. Don't talk out of your ass.
>>336030415
I can imagine this whole post quoted in a video
>>336031294
There isn't really anything implying they're the same.
>>336031129
>There is no difference. The Abyss is kind of just an area of super condensed darkness.
This is what I though too. Though part of me doesn't believe it.
How many "forces" are at work in Dark Souls?
>The Deep (Aldrichs visions)
>The Abyss
>The Flame (Lord Souls/Gods)
>Chaos (DS1 Witches/Demons)
>The Dragons (all but dead)
>Humans? (Each have a piece of the Dark Soul from the Pygmy
>The Dark?
The -natural- progression of the world was meant to be
>Age of Ash
>Age of Fire
>Age of Dark
But we paused/froze the cycle because of what Gwyn did.
Next question.
What caused the undead curse?Its my opinion that it was Gwyn. He linked himself AND humanity to the flame. When it starts to burn out - the Darksign appears, and drains humans of their humanity. Making them unable to die and slowly turn hollow. Its also why they are bound to bonfires.
>>336031446
But simultaneously theres nothing that implies they're different.
Deep is associated with things that are dark, evil etc. Everything thats associated with the Deep could've just been "X of the Abyss" and it wouldn't have looked any different.
What i'm trying to say is that there seems to be no meaningful difference between things that are Of the Deep and things that are Of the Abyss
>>336031602
The bottom of the ocean is really dark.
>>336031602
Didn't Aldrich's visions SPECIFICALLY imply the 'Ocean'?
A lot more things might make sense if "Deep" was just a translation error and was meant to be "Abyss"
>>336031478
The Abyss, darkness, and humanity are all different 'amounts' of the same thing. They literally say this throughout all the games.
What caused the curse, I don't know but it's literally just humans reverting to their natural dark state.
>>336030883
Who is the First Firekeeper? She could be somehow related to Unkindled, as Unkindled don't have a Dark Sigil and can't hollow naturally.
>>336029261
>tom barbadil
Why I'm laughing so much
thanks anon
>>336031602
The effects of each are entirely different. They are literally called different names. No reason why this wouldn't happen. If Aldritch saw an age of dark, he'd just call it that. But it was something else.
>>336031697
>They literally say this throughout all the games.
Who says this?
I know the Jew Serpents say this.
>Trusting the Sneks
Kaathe wants Humanity to STAY in its hollow state. As slaves essentially - we know this now in DS3 because we know how to TRULY snuff the flame (Firekeeper Eyes).
Why does the Firekeeper immediately want to snuff the flame once she sees the "Truth"?
>Imo its cause she saw what Gwyn did and how unnatural it is to Humanity
>Imo humanity with their "Dark Soul" can survive perfectly fine in the dark
>Age of Dark
>Age of Man
Is there a lore reason why there's no humanity in Dark Souls 3
>>336031696
But Abyss is in the games too. And was translated properly in previous games. So no.
>>336031681
>>336031696
>>336031801
Isn't this whole "the deep is some spooky ocean shit" literally just the result of some random translation from japanese? Thats fucking tenuous at best.
Someone give me SOMETHING that clearly differentiates between the two, something that implies the Deep is something the Abyss isn't.
>>336031857
>who says this
Literally every single peice of text relating to any of the three subjects you dingus.
>>336031696
I highly doubt that it's a translation error because both the Deep and the Abyss are referenced fairly frequently through the course of the game. There's clearly a difference between the two it's just hard to say what that is. We've been to the Abyss and have pretty intimate knowledge of it, the Deep is either something entirely new or maybe just Aldritch's perception of the Abyss.
>>336031863
Because you aren't a cursed undead, at least not in the typical sense. You're some kind of weird ash creature
>>336031926
I remember reading and item that literally said he saw visions of the age of the deep sea.
Don't remember which one.
>>336031863
because you're a human not a hollow.
>>336031681
The very bottom of the ocean is actually referred to as the Abyssal zone.
The "Deep Ocean" is synonymous with "The Abyss", at least in the real world.
>>336031857
>Why does the Firekeeper immediately want to snuff the flame once she sees the "Truth"?
Seriously does anyone have any ideas about this?
I thought everyone was terrified of the Dark Age
![6c790a3f98f8e785f6be52892dba3933[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/eOHJfYg.png "6c790a3f98f8e785f6be52892dba3933[1]")
>>336031478
>What caused the undead curse?
Undying, mindless hollows is mankind's natural state, and when the Fire goes out mankind returns to their true form. Vendrick in DaS2 and Yuria in DaS3 both confirm this, and talk about undying hollows being mankind's true form. The opening video of DaS1 also shows hollow-like people finding the Souls of the Lords within the First Flame.
Gwyn did not cause the undead curse, as undead curse was already happening before Gwyn burned himself (evidenced by the existence of New Londo, a city of hollows which was built around Gwyn's lifetime, Gwyn gave a piece of his souls to 4 kings for their foresight). The reason Gwyn burnt himself up in the first place was to prevent the First Flame from going out.
>>336032123
>>336032051
Even still, just because you aren't an undead doesn't mean that undead don't exist. Humanity is fragments of the Dark Soul which you would assume to still be around whether you're undead or not. Seems odd that it doesn't have any representation in this game.
Is dark souls 3 just a convoluted mess of a story with random shit being thrown in everywhere? Dark souls 1 seems more put together, 2 is just cycles and giants but 3 feels like a blender.
>>336031478
The Curse is a fascinating subject. If we follow the logic of DS I, the Dark Sign brands an Undead, but DS III shows us that having a Dark Sign =/= being a hollow, as our protagonist must be given the Dark Sigil to reach the state of hollowing that DS I shows. The nature of The Dark Sign seems simply to serve as a connection between an Undead and a bonfire. In some vague way, I feel like this might explain why Gwyn, a God, can go hollow like he does in DS I, and still be considered not Undead. I don't know, the nature of The Curse is confusing in nature, as it might just be a natural state of Humanity, and yet in DS III, you have to be GIVEN the Dark Sigil to reach that "natural state." Goddamn.
>>336032261
Because she's your slave and does everything you tell her too. For whatever reason firekeepers that are bound to champions are apparently completely unable to disobey their commands.
>>336032306
Perhaps if you aren't an accursed undead, you can't actually collect humanity?
>>336032308
I honestly understand fuckloads less about Das2 than I do about Das3. Man that game was fucking CONVOLUTED.
>>336032308
It's pretty clear once you piece most of it together. Just a couple things are a little confusing. Idiots mainly just keep asking the same stupid questions over and over.
>>336032302
>Believing Yuria aka KAATHE
>Believing Depressed Vendrick
Plus I though Vendrick believed that the true age of Man was the age of Dark.
Aldia also implies this.
>New Londo
I dont remember anything mentioning that New Londo was SPECIFICALLY for Hollows. Most Hollows were sent to Asylums weren't they?
New Londo fell to the Abyss.
Why does pickle-pee have Solaire's armor? Did he kill him?
>Leave a message in the regular Firelink
>It shows up in Dark Firelink
That's some spooky shit right there
>>336032563
See you say that but I'm willing to bet that there's several questions in this thread that you aren't able to answer because they don't make sense.
>>336032568
Pickle-pee is actually the last boss, the true Lord of Sunlight.
Don't drop that pump-a-rum, motherfucker.
>>336032548
DS2 seemed completely pointless.
But After SotFS, Alida's new dialogue makes everything make sense.
>>336032331
you are given the sigil because you're made of ash. Giving the sigil in DS3 is like a twisted version of pinocchio imo
>>336032691
I literally said there are a couple bits that ate confusing. The only real two I can think of I dont have some kind of answer for is "What is the Deep?" And "What's with the different Firelink Shrines?"
>>336032691
Ask some. A lot of questions just stem from people not paying ample attention during the game.
I'll freely admit I'm not certain enough about multiple firelinks to answer that though.
>>336030809
I honestly think that's just an oversight from having the two areas connected. Like another anon said, they didn't count on players using the tree to get on the roof. We're back to square 1
>>336030367
>>336030809
I stand corrected about the tree, my bad guys.
I will say that this does prove that this particular piece of evidence is inconclusive, though, as it doesn't prove a correlation one way or the other
Thoughts?
>>336032548
All I got out of DaS2 was
>Vendrick stole a thing from giants
>They got buttmad
>War
>Giants died, sort of
>You're looking for a cure for the undead curse
>You go through your journey
>SUDDENLY
>You want the throne because level up lady tells you so
>Level up lady was created by experiments
>Aldia says there must be a way out of the light and dark cycles
>He was right... ???
>After they literally patched in another ending to the game, your guy sort of escapes the cycle?
>Something happened somewhere at some point but it's a mystery because intentional vagueness
>The end
And then they sort of implied Drangleic was in the same place as Lordran a few times, and there was a bunch of DaS1 stuff. And Havel was there, and a "fake" Ornstein, maybe? Fuck that game.
>>336023429
No you retard.
>>336032568
Crows like shiny objects, and Solaire obviously became so grossly incandescent. It probably just found the stuff lying around.
>>336033017
Cant tell if tentacle monster or just another fucking scholar covered in WAX
why the fuck do they cover themselves in WAXis it so the ghosts in the bookshelves think they're tentacle monsters????
What would a souls game be like if it was set in a living world instead of a dying one?
>>336032918
>>336032936
Though I feel like From would have taken that in to account I will concede to the point that it may just be an oversight. But what about the Hollow Ashes and Andre's Hammer?
>you will never grow snakes on your back and fuse with them to become a jewish angel
WHERE THE FUCK ARE MY SERPENTS MAN, KAATH AND FRAMPT WERE WE AT
>>336021689
>implied to be his son
>no confirmation
>his armor set confirms it
Uhhh
>>336032797
>I'm a real hollow! I'm a real hollow!
So this means that you don't have to be human to be Undead, seeing as how you already have the Dark Sign, before you get the Dark Sigil, and the Dark Sign "brands the Undead." This is kind of already implied with Gwyn being in the state he is at in The Kiln, but interesting nonetheless. How could Gwyn go "hollow" like he does if he isn't a human?
>>336021426
What about people turning into fucking trees?
They are all around High Wall and Undead Settlement without any kind of reason
What the fuck is the giant black demon shit growing out of the first boss and those other guys?
>>336033328
THE ABYSS
H
E
A
B
Y
S
S
FUCK
>>336033328
corruption by the abyss
>>336033220
RIGHT HERE ANON
RIGHT
HERE
>>336033231
>So this means that you don't have to be human to be Undead, seeing as how you already have the Dark Sign, before you get the Dark Sigil, and the Dark Sign "brands the Undead." This is kind of already implied with Gwyn being in the state he is at in The Kiln, but interesting nonetheless. How could Gwyn go "hollow" like he does if he isn't a human?
This.
I think there is VAST confusion about being Undead/Hollow and more.
Humans had a piece of Humanity AKA the Dark Soul.
Lords had their souls.
To go hollow is to lose your soul. Confirmed via Gwyn going hollow after his soul BURNED AWAY for years and years.
Confirmed by Humans losting their Humanity AFTER dying.
Gwyn lost his because he linked himself to the flame.
How do Humans lose theirs? Humans were never connected to the Flame.
Unless Gwyn connected them?
>>336032564
He does not. Vendrick is depressed because Linking the Fire just postpones the inevitable, whereas Age of Dark is just mindless hollows. He clearly does not like either.
>Drangleic will fall, The fire will fade, and the souls of old will reemerge. With Dark unshackled, a curse will be upon us… And men will take their true shape…
>One day fire will fade and dark will become a curse. Men will be free from death; left to wander eternally. Dark will again be ours and in our true shape, we can bury the false legends of yore. …only, is this our only choice?
Same with Aldia. He rejects both the linking of the Fire and the Age of Dark, questioning both.
>Once, the Lord of Light banished Dark, and all that stemmed from humanity. And men assumed a fleeting form. These are the roots of our world. Men are props on the stage of life, and no matter how tender, how exquisite… A lie will remain a lie. Young Hollow, knowing this, do you still desire peace? (YES/NO)
>Peace grants men the illusion of life. Shackled by falsehoods, they yearn for love, unaware of its grand illusion. Until, the curse touches their flesh. We are bound by this yoke. As true as the Dark that churns within men. All men trust fully the illusion of life. But is this so wrong? A construction, a facade, and yet… A world full of warmth and resplendence. Young Hollow, are you intent on shattering the yoke, spoiling this wonderful falsehood? (YES/NO)
>I lost everything, but remained here, patiently. The throne will certainly receive you. But the question remains… What do you want, truly? Light? Dark? Or something else entirely…
>There is no path. Beyond the scope of light, beyond the reach of Dark… …what could possibly await us? And yet, we seek it, insatiably… Such is our fate.
>>336033029
>bell rings
>you wake wake
>Fire Lady tells you you need to kill people that may or may not have burned themselves in the past.
>Aldricht wants global warming to happen
>Yhorm put a bad flame that is may or may not be different than chaos
>Artorias Cosplayers
>Find a dark version of firelink which implies there is a dark version of fire link
>kill them all and take the flame into yourself, because humans have the dark soul, so if you take the flame into yourself a thing happens and you can make Lothric great again
Did I miss anything?
>>336025579
They're undead from a previous cycle.
>>336033328
Probably this.
>>336033205
See the first and 2nd statues are basically the process you see. So primordial serpent dickery.
>>336033254
It's those pilgrims,probably carrying darkness under their shell and coming to Lothric to let it all out and completely block off the last 'living' lord of cinder and snuff out the flame,as to why they turn into butterflies,no clue.
>>336033402
>>336033376
Not him, but what does that even mean? How can The Abyss manifest itself like that? And don't say they are manifesting through The Dark Soul within Humans, because the Wyverns at Lothric Castle are infested with these things, and they can't have a Dark Soul.
>>336033205
If the fucking DLC has nothing to do with the serpents I'm flipping my shit.
>>336033515
>whereas Age of Dark is just mindless hollows
What turns men hollow?
We know Humans can die peacefully when the fire is bright.
What connects them to the Flame? I agree with the rest
>>336026262
Its Gundyr's stuff that makes it so confusing. When you read his stuff it sounds like your in the age of dark that he woke up too, and your the unnamed warrior that takes his title of champion. So he shoves his coil sword in his body to keep it fresh for the next waning of the fire, which is when your character awakens.
>>336021426
Ornstein
>>336033528
>Aldricht wants global warming to happen
>Artorias Cosplayers
I kek'd
>>336023978
>painted world dlc
That and some Londor/Abyss stuff would be fantastic.
>>336033231
'Hollows' are the primordial beings that became gods and humans depending on what soul they were given. The only difference between Gwyn and a human is that he had a (very large) fraction of the light soul and humans have a (very small) fraction of the dark soul. When either one loses that fraction they revert to being hollow.
>>336033667
a combination of the abyss watchers getting corrupted themselves and fighting amongst eachother, and the the flame causing the world to converge. This made it easy for the abyss to escape and corrupt people all over the palce
>>336033838
Illusion in Dark souls 1
Fanboy cosplayer in dark souls 2
In Das3, its revealed he went to go find the nameless king and sort his shit out. Probably died upon finding him.
>>336033475
AWWWWWWWWWW SHIIIIIIT
>>336033731
>The coil sword
Holy shit.
Don't you pick up the Coil Sword from where his body supposedly is when you start the game?
Or am I remembering wrong?
Maybe it was the Flame who made the 2nd Firelink version. Hell we know it can summon Unkindled.
>>336033205
I guess this is what happens when the transformation fucks up.
>>336033205
>that primordial shit eating grim on the statue
holy fuck they knew what they were doing while making those statues
>>336033667
Because the Age of Dark is getting dangerously close.
>>336033950
No, no. I meant all his question could be answered with Ornstein.
>>336033869
>Abyss
Ciaran set and Tracers, here we come!
>>336033682
The Dark is shit. Unrestrained Darkness is pure chaos. The true power of Humanity is what makes men go mad. Do not believe the Jew Serpents.
Humans are inherently flawed creatures living off of a shitty soul. The First Flame keeping the really negative aspects of the Dark repressed if the only hope for humanity.
>>336033513
>Unless Gwyn connected them?
gywn connected them by using humanity to keep the flame going.
>>336021426
almost all of these questions have DIRECT answers in item descriptions or npc dialogue
what the fuck is this list
>>336033191
Good question.
I think there are pros and cons to both.
In my mind, at least, there are two options:
1. Untended is the past, Fire link is the present, and Kiln is the future.
2. Untended is the present, Kiln is the future and Firelink is something akin to the Nexus.
The main issue I have with Firelink being the future, as opposed to a Nexus, is the sky, honestly. It just seems like such a massive oversight. If it's the future, you would expect to either a) always have sky branded with the dark sign or b) become branded when you reach that point (implying it was not pre-destined to happen, and you actually changed the past).
The fact that the sky does not change, yet both the past (untended and the whole game, which, by extension, is connected to it) AND the kiln (which I think we can safely assume is the future) are both branded would seem to point to Firelink being something outside of either.
BUT, this does NOT explain:
-The handmaiden recognizing you.
-Champion Gundyr
HOWEVER! This even further complicates the fact that those two bits of information seems to directly contradict:
-Andre's Hammer (it seems he abandoned it)
-Yoel's Ashes (which should ONLY exist if untended were the FUTURE, as he dies and then, very slowly, withers away and becomes his ashes in the future)
I could say that the handmaiden can maybe see both the past present and future, but then this doesn't do anything to explain the fact that champion gundyr is CLEARLY the past version of gundyr, but the ashes and hammer should only show up if it were the future.
Fucking confusing. I hate time.
>>336034090
The tracers are actually in the game, just not used, don't have the image on me sadly.
>>336033513
Gwyn must have connected them through his Linking. If you think about it like this, it makes a lot of sense: We only know the nature of The Undead Curse AFTER Gwyn linked that bitch. Before Gwyn Linked the Flame, possibly to Humanity, we know little about Humanity. If the Undead Curse did indeed exist before he linked the Flame, it would mean that Humanity was meant to be Undead. However, if Gwyn did in fact link the flame to Humanity, he fucked the world up. Humanity is Darkness, and you can't link Darkness with Light. They are two opposites, and this is why Hollowing occurs. This is ALSO why Undead respawn at Bonfires. This could be wrong, but I think I hit some seed of a good idea there.
So have people accepted that Dark Souls was all a Demon's Soul's prequel yet?
>>336034112
>gywn connected them by using humanity to keep the flame going.
If that is true. Humans will remain Humans even in the age of Dark.
Will it then be Humanity vs the Abyss for control of the world? (Much like Lords vs the Dragons)?
>>336034206
I know, and as a matter of fact, I have it.
>>336026747
He got invaded.
>>336034235
I hope so we can also include King's field and Shadow Tower.
>>336034167
>-Yoel's Ashes (which should ONLY exist if untended were the FUTURE, as he dies and then, very slowly, withers away and becomes his ashes in the future)
The only problem with this is that the ashes can be left relatively quickly after someone's death, like in Greirat's case
>>336034012
He drops the coil sword when you kill him, but you can see its the sword you pull out of his chest, his armor/soul also says he became a sheathe.
You find a broken coil sword in UG shrine bonfire
Where the did abyss even come from? It seems like everything is just a consequence of fire. Life, death etc. Were people living with the dragons as zombies before contact with fire? Is it true that the giants you fight of people are just a design choice?
>>336034243
The Abyss is just the purest form of humanity present. So maybe humanity fighting but losing to stay sane and not hollow.
>>336033475
You know what really bothers me? We know there are other snakes beside Frampt and Kaathe but we've never see what they do. Do you think they just hide in the underground watching? Or do they have their plans like Frampt and Kaathe
>>336021426
The Abyss Watchers are undead you fucking mongoloid, you know what happens with undead right ?
>>336033682
>What turns men hollow?
Men are naturally hollow. The only thing that keeps them human is their shard of the dark soul. When they lose that shard they go hollow.
>We know Humans can die peacefully when the fire is bright.
Death is possible due to the death soul originally found by Nito. When the fire starts to fade the strength of this soul wanes and death becomes more difficult.
>What connects them to the Flame?
The flame created three disparities, hot and cold, life and death, and light and dark. The flame represents heat, life, and light. The abyss represents cold, death, and dark. Humans have a shard of the dark soul in them and naturally seek the light of the flame to 'balance' it out.
>>336034232
Thats my main theory as well. See
>>336031478
>>336034294
Oh cheers, I really hope they do come back fully, two of my favorite weapons in 1, the set's lovely too.
>>336034012
You litterally pull it from Iudex's chest.
The Coiled Sword crap that concerns me is the fragment (which is undoubtedly the pointy end of it) and the broken sword (missing pointy end) sat where you first spawn in High Wall.My headcanon is Iudex's coiled sword is a replica/fake from Ludleth's recreation that allows the bonfire in FS to link to the real sword, well most of it anyway. I haven't thought a great deal about it lately though so it's kinda half-baked
I don't understand, did I just kill ALL the abyss watchers when I struck down the embered one? Or will they just come back later. Red eye watcher aside, they seemed like okay folks
>>336034167
On the topic of the ashes- they only appear in Untended Graves if you bring Yoel back but haven't progressed his quest line. My only other theory is that the two exist in tandem, with Firelink Shrine almost layered on top of Untended Graves. Firelink uses the existing elements of Untended Graves to give life to the illusion, and as things progress throughout the game the changes are reflected in both.
>>336034416
When the First Flame came into being, so did darkness. Similar to how when you light a fire in front of you, a shadow appears behind you. The Abyss is just what most of the darkness is cornered into during an Age of Fire.
>>336034507
They abyss watcher souls states that they share one collective soul.
"The blood was spread amongst the Abyss Watchers, and their souls are one with the soul of the wolf blood master."
Their might be mindless corpses of former watchers running around but they aren't comming back as they were.
>>336033896
Here is my question. If you burn Humanity in DS I, you stop being hollow. If you revert to hollowness when you LOSE your soul, why is it that losing Humanity, bits of The Dark Soul, keeps you from hollowing?
>>336027275
mind blown desu
aldrich finally makes sense to me now
>>336034464
>Death is possible due to the death soul originally found by Nito. When the fire starts to fade the strength of this soul wanes and death becomes more difficult.
Where are you getting this from? Is there an item that states this?
>>336034441
Yeah there are AT LEAST ten primordial serpents, as shown in the alternative DS1 ending.
If we don't get SOME kind of closure on the serpents in DLC I will fucking light myself on fire
>>336034507
I think they mostly killed each other. You got the tail end of the fight.
>>336024679
Catarina folks are said to be living relatively normal lives, even if they do get hit with the curse, they managed to keep it at bay. And most kingdoms do pretty well when the first flame is at full strength. Hence why massive kingdoms like Lothric can happen, they didn't flourish while all that shit was happening.
>>336034464
>Men are naturally hollow. The only thing that keeps them human is their shard of the dark soul. When they lose that shard they go hollow.
What about this? >>336034746
>>336034746
I think you burn humanity to strengthen the flame, balancing out the darkness within you and keeping you from hollowing.
>>336034778
Although if he is that sludge, I find it disappointing that the boss fight itself doesn't involve more of the environment. Like columns of slime flying towards you, waves sending you off balance and shit. The entire floor could have oozed up to the ceiling and fallen on you.
Instead, Aldrich just throws the corpse of some trap at you and calls it a day. What a doof.
So basically, everything happening in DS3 is the fault of Prince Lothric right? If he would have just become a lord like he was supposed to, the bell would have never rung, the old lords of cinder would have never gotten up and the dark wouldn't be killing everything
right?
>>336021426
>1. Why were the Abyss Watchers fighting each other?
The whole reason they stopped linking the fire was because they were too busy slaughtering each other over the abyss constantly infecting their ranks. You came in just as the last few were finished. In the fight one of them even gets infected and the non-infected ones have to fuck him up and deal with you at the same time.
>2. How did Aldrich go from a regular saint into a destroyer of gods?
Aldrich was a cannibal who discovered how to absorb the powers of his victims. He started out eating scrubs and moved on to bigger and more powerful things over time. He had a shitload of help too from the deacons and Pontiff.
>3. How can Aldrich consume Gwyndolin if Gwyndolin was killed in Dark Souls 1?
Killing Gwyndolin is optional in Dark Souls 1. This makes killing him a non-canon part of the actual story and more of a cool thing you can do.
>4. Where exactly did we fight High Lord Wolnir at?
In a pocket of the abyss. The goblet was essentially his last link to Lordran and he was attempting to "crawl" out of the abyss and possess your soul to once again live. A necromancer typically has some kind of object it uses to tie itself between world of life and death, so that when they lose their mortal vessel they can be reborn into another. It's called a phylanctory. The goblet was his phylanctory and you touched it. You quite literally beat his ass back into the abyss and sever the ties to the goblet.
>>336034507
pretty much
the soul fragments jump around from watcher to watcher, that's why they kept coming back when they were killed. The fragments converged into one once it saw you were too strong. You take the complete soul
>>336035015
Fuck, that makes sense. If Gwyn linked Humanity to the Flame, then an Undead would need both a Dark Soul and the flame to keep itself from hollowing. It's like a balancing act.
>>336035015
>I think you burn humanity to strengthen the flame, balancing out the darkness within you and keeping you from hollowing.
But you can only do it once (to become human until you die again).
Burning Humanity is akin to restoring your soul.
When you die - your humanity (almost all of it) is DRAINED out of the Dark Sign and taken to the First Flame to keep it burning as tinder.
This keeps on happening as you die and die and die until you lose your mind.
>>336035096
yeh pretty much
>>336021426
>from asking for lore on /v/
>>336023464
Same. I thought Gwyndolin went mad and "devouring" was just him slowly becoming corrupted until he took on a different name.
And him seeing a little girl was him trying to forget who he was. Plus Pontiff was just helping him become who he was and helping him devour other gods.
It would fit, except the cleric part and apparently the Yorshka dialogue that I need to find that I missed on my first playthrough.
What doesn't make sense however in regards to Aldrich is that the one Archbishop he left behind regarded Rosaria as a diety and yet Aldrich didn't eat her.
>>336035059
I thought of it as he was still eating Gwyndolin and was trying to focus on that and you came along and he had to multitask.
>>336034730
So the abyss watchers are just an army of hollows that got woken up like me, yet they share a soul? Is that how that one at the end gets embered?
I want to kill the abyss too, why couldn't we be friends?
And if it's an undead legion, was it infinite? Don't undead keep respawning? Until I came a long and took the soul of course.
>>336035182
>Fuck, that makes sense. If Gwyn linked Humanity to the Flame, then an Undead would need both a Dark Soul and the flame to keep itself from hollowing. It's like a balancing act.
This does make a lot of sense.
Now the hardest question of them all
What is "right?"
Age of Dark is the natural progression out of Age of Fire
Humans were fucked by Gwyn to turn into Mindless Hollows.
We have no idea what would happen if the Age of Dark came about aside from everyone fighting the Abyss for control.
>>336034340
Yoel's body is the only that simply stays there though. Though, that's true of all of the Londor Pilgrims. Safe to assume they're different.
I'm not claiming Untended as one or the other. I lean closer to "The graves were meant to be a last-ditch effort to link the flame. They never worked quite as intended (Andre giving up, a firekeeper who saw some shit she shoudln't have, broken coiled sword) and so someone created a nexus-like firelink to actually re-link the fire and brought those people that would be useful to an unkindled back in"
I also want to point out that I believe when the game refers to "the first firekeepers" I believe it's referencing the first firekeepers IN LOTHRIC. As far as we know, firekeepers have never been blind with the exception of the Chaos sister, so I think it's fair to say that it's possible that first firekeeper of Lothric kingdom saw some darkness and so they took to removing all their eyes so the same wouldn't happen to them.
>>336033226
>he thinks vague hints are confirmation
LOL-ing at your life
>>336035059
I took it as he was focusing on eating Gwyndolin and then you came along and he had to multitask.
>>336035219
This right here is why I can't trust scientists. They think they can know the age of something because of lines in it. Like come on nigger thats just dumb.
>>336034807
Agdayne from DaS2 mentions Nito gave people 'first death'. Nito's soul says "The power of his soul is so great that it satiates the Lordvessel, despite the fact that much of its energy has already been offered to death." So it's implied his soul keeps death running.
>>336035257
Goddamn, that's funny, anon. I actually feel a little bad now. Poor Aldrich is enjoying a nice snack, and you just bust in all, "YO GIMME YOUR SOUL, BITCH."
Aldrich had a hard life.
>>336021426
3. How can Aldrich consume Gwyndolin if Gwyndolin was killed in Dark Souls 1?
ITS PARALLEL DIMENSIONS YOU SUBHUMAN FUCKING RETARDS!! AS IT WAS IN DS2. THATS WHY ANYTHING CAN BE DIFFERENT. THATS WHY QUELAAG NEVER SURVIVED IZALITH. THERE ARE LITERALLY DESCRIPTIONS IN THE GAME THAT GO AGAINST DS1 LORE, AND WE KNOOOOW OTHER WORLDS EXIST
So can we at least all agree that Anri and Horace are both brother and sister? And there quest is to kill their father?
>>336035334
>What is "right?"
As in, is it better to Snuff the Flame or Link it.
>inb4 usurpation
GET OUT OF HERE JEW SNEKS
>>336025956
Smough was "that kid" but he's the only dude who didn't leave his post or got corrupted.
Oceiros info and the divine blessing text seem to imply that ocelotte is going to be some kind of fucked up abomination that was taken and sealed away like Priscilla. Oceiros did find Seaths research after all and seemed to go even more insane
>>336035334
Existence and nonexistence are the only right and wrong things.
In the End the Fire ending, the firekeeper heavily implies that even in darkness, embers will eventually show up again. And the game also revolves around "Ash Seeketh Embers", which is an ashen one going around and doing the job that would have previously been done by a lord. We also know that Lothric refused to link the fire, and fucked off.
So maybe untended graves is a vision of the past, where Lothric refusing to link the fire resulted in darkness and Gundyr was too late to fix it. However, embers eventually reignite, and ashen ones are awoken to get shit done.
I'm not sure a lot of weight can be put on time/space either. Items indicate that the locations in the game are kind of mashed together, and that locations just showed up overnight changing the geography. The land is literally reshapen just to allow you to accomplish your goal. Also in places where the fire was linked, the sky is fine. It's only in Lothric where shit's bad. So even continuous parts of the game could just be parallel realities drawn together to give you what you need. Fire sprang from nothing originally, and it seems like it will ultimately find a way to be linked again regardless of what happens.
All of this could be bullshit of course.
>>336035476
Naaaah, they're kids at an orphanage that Aldrich preyed upon.
Maybe. I dunno.
>>336034746
>If you burn Humanity in DS I, you stop being hollow.
No you don't. You stop being hollow if you use/eat a Humanity. You have to use extra Humanity and burn that to do anything at the bonfire.
>>336034987
You aren't burning humanity in DS1 you're taking it up into yourself.
>5. Who is Ocelotte and where did they go?
The son of the king. Possibly died due to experiments of dragon/crystal fuckery magic and the Oceiros went mad thinking he/she was still alive and crying in his arms.
>6. The Nameless King, who is he? How can he have no name and still be a King? What is he even a King of?
Quite literally this guy is senpai of the dragon slayers from the first game. Taught Ornstein everything he knows. He MIGHT be the God of War.
>7. The Soul of Cinder, how did it exactly come into creation? Wouldn't the same have happened to Gwyn?
The darksign.
>8. How can there be 3 versions of Firelink all existing at the same time? (Firelink Shrine, Untended Graves, Kiln of the First Flame)
One is based in your reality. The second is in the past (and it's not the first time time travel has been used in dark souls). The final area is quite literally a distorted fuckspace between worlds that is essentially a warped merging of all realities, and at the center of it all is the chosen undead who linked the fires. Remember, you're playing a game that quite literally has you interacting with infinite alternate realities 24/7. Think of it as a converging point.
>9. Why is the Shrinemaiden in the Untended Graves?
You're in the past m8. She just lives there.
>10. What exactly is this moving around in the Firekeepers visor? Humanity?
Yes.
>>336035486
Kaathe did nothing wrong
>>336025956
But the smough in Anor Lando was an illusion too
>>336035476
>sister
I thought Horace was a guy
>>336035475
FUCKING CHRIST READ SOME BEFORE YOU SHITPOST. HE WAS AN OPTIONAL BOSS. HE DIDNT CANONICALLY DIE. IM SICK OF SEEING THIS SHIT.
>>336035453
>Agdayne from DaS2 mentions Nito gave people 'first death'. Nito's soul says "The power of his soul is so great that it satiates the Lordvessel, despite the fact that much of its energy has already been offered to death." So it's implied his soul keeps death running.
That makes a lot of sense.
However it doesnt imply that the weakening of the Flame causes people to be unable to die. Nito was never linked to the flame. His soul is the same - it just says the soul is SO Great it can fill the Lordvessel (even though most/80% of its power is dedicated to keeping 'Death' a reality)
>>336021426
>1. Why were the Abyss Watchers fighting each other?
How can you not piece that together on your own, are you retarded?
The same reason Artorias ran amok, even though all other knights of Gwyn are pretty nice.
They got corrupted by the abyss and are eternally rising and fighting each other
>>336035625
No he wasn't.
>>336035628
Anri is a girl if you play as a guy. And vice versa.
>>336025245
I really wish in the DLC he has a questline where the player has to face the final boss of the DLC and if you did everything right he says something along the lines of
>"Well, you held out so far, and so have I, for a very long time"
> "I've seen many an undead link the fire, all meet the same fate. "
> " I always provided tools for the chosen ash. I seeked to hone my craft even further. Now, I can proudly say i succeeded."
> " You have brought me a great many coals to work with, and now I can say that I can focus all my energy to recreate one special weapon for you, ascended above all others. Choose wisely, as I am not as I once was, and have only the strength to create one such work for you, but it shall be a weapon fit for the first Gods themselves."
> You can choose any maxed out weapon out of your inventory and ascend it, the weapon will be renamed to "Ascended Heavy/Refined/etc. *WeaponName* " And will have the power equivalent of a +12 to regular weapons or a +6 to Boss weapons.
That would be a whole new meta.
>>336021426
I forget, did people complain when the Old Dragonslayer boss was revealed in DS2? This isn't the first or even the second time we have had repeats in the series. It IS canon that time is fucked up. They even said that if you don't kindle the flame in DS1 Solaire DOES and because of that everything continues on.
It seems to me that 'progress' and decision making in the DS universe is done by committee. All the characters in a particular DS game are going through their own 'votes' on what actually happens. Then when the event is over all the timelines collapse into one another and the most repeated decisions are accepted as reality. Most of the characters in the DS universe DID kindle the first flame, so it remained lit. Most of the characters in the DS universe did NOT kill Gwyndolin, so he lived to be eaten.
>>336035585
>Horace is one of only two children to escape Aldrich's clutches.
>>336035673
Shut your fucking whore mouth Dark Souls faggot. It doesn't matter.
>>336035774
>No he wasn't.
Yes. He was.
>>336035673
The OP should really avoid having aton of questions in it.
Half the thread is just idiots replying to the OP.
>>336025079
for 3 games niggas been anviling that same estoc
no wonder estoc is so broken in DS3
>>336035581
yeah, the fire is like a living entity or something. It does whatever it can to keep itself alive.
It constantly summons new champions and as it fades, it makes the world converge so that their quest is easier and faster
>>336035802
Nothing you just said disproved what I said though.
>>336035789
Are you for real?
Welp, this guy figured it all out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FsiX_xkjuQ
>>336027275
Why couldn't I just stand in a corner and stab the ground to win then?
>>336035334
Holy shit, I'm reaching some sort of Nirvana right now. Aldia was a "Scholar of the First Sin", and if I recall DSII correctly, the First Sin was Gwyn linking the flame. Aldia even fucking says "Man took on a fleeting form" when referring to the Linking of the Fire. It would seem as though the right progression is to let the Age of Dark commence, BUT Gwyn fucked that all up, committing what could be seen as a "Sin." This is what Aldia figured out in DS II, and this is why The Age of Dark isn't a good thing for humanity either. With Gwyn's little bull-shitting around, he essentially fucked up everything for Humanity forever, by connecting the Darkness of The Dark Soul to the Light of The First Flame. In the end, I don't think anything is right, except POSSIBLY the Usurpation of Fire, but even then, it seems to be an unnatural fix. I don't know, though, maybe that is wrong.
>>336035814
There is no evidence for this. It's stated multiple times that he was the last knight in Anor Londo and stayed to his death. Ornstein was an illusion. Smough was not.
>>336035967
Would you die if some nigger was pulling your hairs one by one?
High Lord Wolnir is a lich, and the skull goblet you touch is his phylactery, his soul binded within such that he has achieved a form of immortality. This is actually a common theme in fantasy. I assumed that when you touch his chalice, you enter his realm (the abyss) and High Lord Wolnir attempts to consume your soul.
>>336024846
What the fuck? No.
>>336025714
You are undead, they are not. Undead Bosses are reincarnated. All Boss Souls are great souls that spawn from the Lord Souls, hence why it always says you defeated a "HEIR TO FIRE".
>>336035967
I dunno. Why does a giant slab of metal that no human can possibly lift do less damage than a sidearm? The world will never know.
>>336034824
But would your soul be strong enought to preserve the age of fire, anon?
>>336035967
Why can't I kill you if I shove a toothpick in your toe?
>>336033172
Wax and candles are images associated with scholars spending a lot of time reading books in the dark.
That's it. They could have been covered in ink for all I care.
>>336035992
>things youtubers said literally verbatim
DaS2 never explicitly states this (it barely fucking states why you do ANYTHING in that game). While most likely right, please stop pretending you're making this up on the spot as some kind of epiphany. It's embarrassing.
>>336023429
>>336025710
>magic wheel skeletons
>>336036089
That's cool. I like it.
>>336036089
What if High Lord Wolnir is Nito reborn?
>>336035476
Can we agree that Anri is a genderfluid tranny?
>xir gender is always the opposite of player's gender
>Reversal Ring is in the same room you marry xir in
>the marriage ritual itself happens in the same room you encountered Gwyndolin in DaS1, a known crossdresser
>>336036287
Come on, dude, who said this? I've only ever watched ENB and Vaatividya, and I haven't watched Vaati since like, 2014. Also, DaS 2 never seemed to really connect 1 with it's ending, at least to me, so it's kind of coming as a shock.
>>336036717
No, it's beef jerky
>>336035992
They should try burning the Crown in the First Flame and see what happens.
>>336036717
what if she is ornstein?
>>336036735
Vaati says literally what you said.
Word for word, my guy.
>>336036836
What if Mildred the Man-eater is the first son?
>>336036067
No evidence other than everyone but the giants being illusions you mean
>>336032261
She doesn't "want" anything. She does what you tell her to. She's enslaved to your will by her duty.
I bet you can even make herholdyourhand
hehehehehe
>>336036972
What if Smough is Aldrich.
Smough was at people and was already fat. What if Smough in DS1 was an illusion. The real Smough was traveling the world eating more people till he turned to Sludge.
>>336035914
So why does the Soul of Cinder attack you if you're there to link the fire?
>>336036871
Do you know what video he said that in? I stopped watching right around the time The Sunken City DLC came out.
>>336037107
Even if he was an illusion, there would be no fucking way to tell, you idiot. And the brass armor fire keeper chick isn't an illusion.
>>336037145
Smough ground bones into his food. He didn't go full cannibal.
>>336036735
The entire schtick about Gwyn creating the hollowing curse by linking humanity to the first flame is mentioned by Vaati all the time, and the only other people who think that too are the ones who watched his videos
>>336037243
>I only eat people's fingers, dude, I'm not a cannibal, I swear. :^)
Smough pls
>>336036089
>>336036432
Wolnir's weapon description mentions
>A holy sword eroded by the Abyss. When Wolnir fell to the Abyss, he was gripped by a fear of true darkness, and pleaded to the gods for the first time.
>This holy sword, together with three armlets stripped from the corpses of clerics, gave him some semblance of comfort.
>Skill: Wrath of the Gods
>Thrust weapon into earth to emit powerful shockwave. The wrath of those swallowed by the Abyss is a thing to be wary of indeed.
Wolnir clearly didn't fall into Abyss on purpose, on the contrary it seems he wants to get the fuck out of there. When you kill him he falls even lower.
>>336035992
I'm going to need to see some evidence on how you came to this conclusion and you better not link me a vaati video
>>336037145
It's stated that Aldrich was a cleric, Smough wasn't a cleric he was an executioner. It also says Smough was the last knight to stand in defense of the Ruined Cathedral. In all likelyhood Smough probably just got eaten by Aldrich in some ironic twist of fate.
>>336035476
Daily reminder that Anri is the Maiden in Black.
>>336037246
I was basically going off of what the Gwyn anon said. Referring to this guy. >>336031478
This thread is getting stupid.
>>336035992
The way I interpreted as was that humans only took shape with the linking of the flame. Without it they go back to being hollows.
Isn't the first linking of the flame when gwyn and co. took the lord souls? So the lord souls are connected to the first flame as is the dark soul.
It kinda seems like most of the dark soul and humanity stuff has been retconned/ ignored. Even in this game hollowing is reversed with the purging stone
>>336037405
Oh, well that guy was basically quoting Vaati
>>336035941
Well obviously it's a faggy script I came up with but the idea itself is fine, I think.
>>336037337
>I'm going to need to see some evidence on how you came to this conclusion and you better not link me a vaati video
Not even him but there is a shit ton of things to go off on.
>The Curse
>Humans respawning at a bonfire
>What IS hollowing? Why do humans lose their souls when only Gwyn linked HIS soul (supposedly)?
>Why are humans UNABLE to die when the Flame fades? (DS2 confirms this)
>Aldia, First Sin, Humans + Fleeting Form, Props of Life (Humans hold up the flame because of Gwyn).
There is probably a ton more.
>>336037337
>>336037405
And according to >>336037531, that is basically Vaati's theory. That said, it seems pretty solid.
>>336037262
Those fuckers. How could they know I have that feet fetish?
Dam. And I just fapped 10 minutes ago. Poor johnny ain't gettin' no rest today.
>>336037591
Aren't the lord souls tied to the power of the first flame? When it fades their power fades?
>>336037765
Don't ask me dude.
>>336036608
just fuck off
>>336037826
Pretty sure everything with even a little bit of flame in it fades.
>>336037591
Don't all souls get weaker when the flame fades? Not just the linked ones? It seems even the gods, giants, and animals start to hollow or go crazy once the fire starts fading
>>336037826
>Aren't the lord souls tied to the power of the first flame? When it fades their power fades?
That was the initual assumption. But do we have any evidence of a Lord Soul slowly Hollowing that DIDNT link their soul?
>Nito
>Witch of Izalith
Why was Ornstein's Armor in the area where you fight the Nameless King? Was he trying to kill the dragon NK was riding on? I thought Ornstein died?
Or was he simply a copycat?
>>336036717
Pathetic.
>Reversal Ring is in the same room you marry xir in
>the marriage ritual itself happens in the same room you encountered Gwyndolin in DaS1, a known crossdresser
Contradictory points invalidate each other
>gender is always the opposite of player's gender
Because its your spouse for reproduction
>>336037997
Going crazy is sometimes a side-effect of the Abyss or Corruption.
The only things that Hollow are HUMANS.
>Gwyndolin didn't hollow
>>336038095
Do not lewd the firekeeper
>>336037498
The timeline is
Age of Dragons and Archtrees > Fire literally poofs from nothingness, creating concepts such as Light and Dark and life and death > Hollow-like people are born from the Dark and find the souls of the Lords (plus the Dark Soul) in the First Flame > Gwyn and co. kill the dragons > Thus began the Age of Fire > later Fire begins to fade and mankind is beset by undead curse / hollowing (returning to their original form) > Witch of Izalith tries to recreate the First Flame, but fails > Gwyn throws himself into the First Flame, creating the ritual of Link of Fire (being with a very strong soul working as kindling) > events of DaS1, DaS2 and DaS3
>>336038063
It states in his armor that Ornstein left Anor Londo in search of Gwyn's firstborn. All signs point to Nameless King being Gwyn's firstborn. The in-between is a bit murky, but what can be seen is Ornstein found his way to the firstborn and either died or was killed there. You can only get to Ornsteins armor after killing NK so it follows that NK likely killed Ornstein.
>>336038063
nameless fucked ornsteins shit up , the one you beat in ds1 was an illusion made by gwynere
>>336038063
>DS1
Ornstein was an illusion
>DS2
Ornstein is either looking for the Nameless King or its an imposter.
>DS3
It's just his armor so he probably died some random way. Maybe NK killed him.
>>336038170
I thought the giants could hollow though, why does their face look like the dark sign whenever they die and come back?
>give firekeeper her eyes
>thought I was doing a nice thing
>she's begging me to kill her
>can't level up if I do (I think?)
>kill the last boss
>decide to show her mercy
>once saw a screenshot of a cinematic video of Ashen One putting his boot on the firekeeper's head
>she just died in my game instead, no video no nothing
>decide to kill everyone in the Shrine before starting NG+
I probably should've explored a bit more, but NK made me salty as fuck.
>>336038512
>I thought the giants could hollow though, why does their face look like the dark sign whenever they die and come back?
Good question.
I thought they turn into Trees?
>>336038278
Leo Ring description reads that Ornstein was the firstborns knight. Or something along those line. Ornstein probably went on crazy broventures with Nameless King instead of staying behind with Smough.
>>336038579
>turn into trees
Speaking of which what is with all the humans turning into trees in the first two areas? Are giants and humans more alike than we think or is it something else?
>>336038586
dragonslayer bros with dragonrider ???
>>336038559
She tells you if you change your mind to kill her and take the eyes, and that she'll come back, so you were a little dumb.
As for what you saw, when you beat the last boss you can touch her summon sign to bring her in, and at some point you can hit her to alter that ending to be Demon's Souls as fuck.if only I had know ;_;
>>336037628
That Boss battle was very hard for me because of not being able to focus at all.
Jesus that's some grade A vidya booty right there. Based Hackazaki
![mn4MRhn[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/oOYfI21.jpg "mn4MRhn[1]")
![anri[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/NB2PXHF.png "anri[1]")
