>CPU: MIPS R4300i running at 93.75 Mhz
>GPU: SGI Reality Co-Processor running at 62.5 Mhz
>RAM: 4 MB RDRAM
How the fuck did they manage this level of graphics on Nintendo 64?
If you think that's impressive, check this out
https://youtu.be/yHXx3orN35Y
Scene really gets shit done, I wish actual devs were this competent. Granted, this isn't interactive, but it shows just how much the fucking IBM was capable of.
>>336007892
To be fair that is a tech demo, which is only focused on pushing the graphics, not an actual game
Looks amazing though considering the old piece of shit IBM though
>>336007975
Yeah. Imagine if the guy got his hands on a C64. Oh sweet Mary
>>336007747
There's no operating system; the game runs on the bare hardware. This allows it to be way way more efficient than a PC of equal specs.
Same for every console
>>336008090
>implying the PS4 and Xbone don't run operating systems for themselves
>implying the Xbone doesn't run stripped down Win10
>implying the PS4 doesn't literally dedicate a portion of its RAM to the OS
Nah, modern consoles are just PCs. Maybe, back during 6th gen, but even then, the consoles had operating systems, but they weren't running while the game was.
>>336008090
>implying the N64 has no operating system
http://level42.ca/projects/ultra64/Documentation/man/pro-man/pro06/index.html
>>336008090
you are retarded
>>336008090
Sonyggers have reached levels of autism I thought impossible.
>>336008219
>>336008267
>>336008312
>>336008516
the operating systems for consoles are minuscule compared to something like Windows on PC, and they have like 1% or less of the overhead the Windows does. If you're comparing it to PC, the games might as well be running on the bare hardware
>>336008605
But they don't and thats why you are retarded and this guy is right >>336008219
It was back when development teams werent full of people who fell for that commercial about tightening up the graphics on level three.
>almost vanilla wow level textures
Jesus christ Rare
>>336007747
>Has more RAM
>Has a GPU with filtering and proper Z buffering
>Has a faster CPU
>Still struggles to compete against the PS1
Because N64 wasn't weak, just hard to program, whether it was the latency, shitty texture unit, forced to 1 microcode, etc etc
Rare & a couple of others overcame that by the end of it's life cycle
Also Conkers ran at like 20fps at best & was 190p, i could run Unreal on a Voodoo 1 & a 100mhz Pentium at 240p/30-40fps too & claim how the fuck did they manage it, but people would fucking laugh
>>336009036
if you mean financially then yeah, that's because of a little thing called cartridges
if you mean graphics then you are very silly anon
>>336007747
wait, they discovered the hardware of N64?
this mean better n64 emulators, right?
>>336009098
>i could run Unreal on a Voodoo 1 & a 100mhz Pentium at 240p/30-40fps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnrB0r19700
>Pentium 1 MMX 166 Voodoo 1
>The result was: 17.45 fps (average) / 5.68 (lowest) / 46.18 fps (highest)
>>336009036
>cartridges.
graphics were better than PS1, but a cd can hold more data.
>>336007747
Because they were competent.
In the Rare developer's commentary of Conker by Chris Seavor they basically say that people used to have to squeeze as much as possible out of the console while now they are unoptimized as fuck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgtAXCaSlpk
>>336008046
Hmm if only it weren't so rare.
>>336009257
>640x480
I said 320x240
17fps average is also still better than Conker
>>336009329
>graphics were better than PS1
It's really subjective, PS1 games were more detailed with higher poly count and better textures. N64 had cleaner graphics with some AA but everything was blurry as shit.
>>336009419
Voodoo can't do 320x240.
>>336009514
>higher poly count and better textures
I love some morning bait with my cereal
>>336009514
PS1 games with pre-rendered backgrounds looked the best of that generation IMO
Textures on 64 looked like muddy pieces of garbage even at the time
>>336009514
PS1 games had far worse polycounts. N64 had blurry as fuck textures by comparison. Overall N64 games were slightly better looking.
>>336009514
ah yes, the power of the PS1
>>336009419
>17fps average is also still better than Conker
I think you are a little bit delusional anon. In no way is this less than 17 fps on average.
And yeah, the Voodoo doesn't do 320x240 unless you use hacked Glide drivers.
>>336009514
>N64 had cleaner graphics with some AA but everything was blurry as shit.
>N64 had cleaner graphics - everything was blurry as shit.
>N64 - cleaner graphics - blurry as shit.
>>336009660
>N64 had blurry as fuck textures by comparison
Still...Conker did have better textures than any PS1 game >>336009016
So you could get good textures out of the N64 if you knew how
PS1 textures are all pixelated.
Like how SM64DS textures look compared to SM64. That's because the DS is as powerful as a PS1 but not as powerful as a N64
DELETE THIS
>>336009713
This actually good looking compared to some stuff on ps1
>>336010026
It's true. Crash looks amazing for a PS1 game.
Video related is considered one of the best looking PS1 games, but it's no match for Crash.
>>336010005
are you autistic?
>>336010242
ayy fucking draw distance
>>336008219
>Wii U
>2 GB RAM
>1 GB is for the OS
>>336007747
I remember old Rare talking about the 4 MB RAM limit in a video. Basically saying how they laugh their ass off when people these days go like "oh no this system only has 1 GB RAM, how will we get shit done on this?!"
>>336010659
Now that consoles have 8 GB, what's stopping games from having huge textures? I still see a lot of blurry shit.
>>336007747
Can someone explain why most of the popular nintendo64 games (mario64,ocarina of time etc) have so responsive and precise controls? Like the only comparison now is dark souls 2 60 fps and dragons dogma 60 fps. I dont get it
>>336010778
bus width, they only use 3GB as VRAM
>>336007747
it's not that hard really
>>336010659
Developers have stopped optimizing shit because capacities are so high now.
Before when PCs had MBs for RAM, developers had to really optimize their programs to be really small.
Nowadays, no one cares because everyone has 8 or 16 gigs of RAM.
>>336010881
Ok do it then
>>336007747
Really looks better than some PS2 games
>>336010242
Hueh that green fog.
>>336010778
>what's stopping games from having huge textures?
It's usually down to insufficient VRAM bandwidth. Even if you put all the big textures into VRAM you can't actually display it on the screen unless those textures get copied into the framebuffer. Many developers have really sloppy code that uses RAM inefficiently.
A good example especially for this thread is how many N64 games had worse textures than PS1 even though the console has more RAM and the RAM has more bandwidth. N64 had a type of RAM called RDRAM which has an especially high bandwidth penalty for inefficient use. Many developers for the console would code sloppily and the RAM bandwidth would eventually evaporate and they couldn't load in nice textures.
Rare were masters of the N64 so that wasn't a problem for them which is why Conker has good textures.
>>336007747
It's not all too surprising, considering Rare would later go on to make one of the best-looking games on the X-Box, as well.
>>336010936
already done. download emulator of n64 and the rom of conker's bad fur day
>tfw when my younger brother was surprised PSP can run coded arms w/o a hitch
>tfw it has only 32 RAM
>tfw when comparing it to iPhone 1 specifications
>>336010242
Crash's development is interesting as heck, by the way. Also puts the life cycle of a console into perspective.
http://all-things-andy-gavin.com/2011/02/02/making-crash-bandicoot-part-1/
TLDR; they used some interesting tricks to get the game looking so good and many other devs thought they had access to secret information from Sony to get more performance out of the PS1.
I was always an N64 guy, but I now consider the consoles pretty much equal, if quite different.
>>336010005
Its not to do with power its do with a texture filtering feature missing from the graphics component
Nintendo 64 > ps single.
Both in games and in graphics.
Funny how nintendo turned into absolute shit with the wii.
>>336007747
Passion, skill and experience, three things damn near every dev lacks these days.
It's because the dudes up at Rare were literal fucking wizards.
>>336010976
I just never had this problem in PC games. I had many games that would run like shit with medium to high settings, but I could always increase the texture detail until the card ran out of memory.
I guess it's because I never used low-end shit. The good old 8800 GTS with its high bandwidth but low memory would probably always be bottlenecked by the latter.
Still, that says a bit about the fucking shitty work put into optimization when graphical scaling is meant for new but bad cards instead of good but old cards. Fucking normies and their yearly laptop upgrades.
Look what they did with the RE2 port. Audio qualit to the minimum
>>336011902
Many PC cards basically have overkill levels of memory bandwidth. And in any case, even when the GPU runs out of bandwidth it won't be due to texturing, but usually due to crazy shader effects. So now it's almost always the VRAM size that determines texture resolution.
Consoles like PS4 have an additional problem - the CPU has to share the same RAM bandwidth as the GPU (ironically, the N64 was the very first console to do this). That's not a problem for PC which has RAM and VRAM on completely different channels.
>>336011608
>both in games
Stopping reading there. Glad Nintendo turned to complete shit. These nostalgia threads are the only thing Nintenfags have now.
>>336010892
Well, maybe it wouldn't be a problem if developers optimized their code. This entire thing is cyclical.
>devs write shit code
>companies build more powerful processors and components
>consumers use new components because they want to run their software better
>devs see this and say "well gee, everyone has powerful machines. fuck the poorfags that can't afford higher and parts, let's just write shit code"
>don't even take advantage of multiple cores and threads
>faggots then complain "Moore's law is ded"
>implying it's not only dead because of code that doesn't take advantage of hardware features like multiple processors and thread support
>>336011785
Hell yeah, motherfucker.
All that and only 64mb of cartridge to store the games on.
Funny to think PS1 had 10x that space per disc and were allowed up to 4 discs.
>>336007747
N64 had a gpu and CPU combo = way more flexible than just CPU power only.
Which is why everyone said programming for ps2/ps3 was a nightmare, they didn't technically have a GPu, you had to program the cpus from scratch.
>>336012371
If only.. Fucking Nintendo i can't even imagine how amazing a CD n64 could have been.
>>336012663
>they didn't technically have a GPu
You nigger
Pic related is the PS3 motherboard.
One of these two grey squares is the almighty Cell processor. It can be bought separately in bulk, it's used in some of LG's TVs.
The other grey square is the Reality Synthesizer, the graphics processor for the PS3.
The reason people found it hard to program for the PS3 was because the Cell was ridiculous with its architecture. Even though it followed the PowerPC instruction set, it added a whole bunch of hardware shit that confused developers.
I've always wondered what the best game ever was considering the limitations of the console it was made for.
Something like Elite on NES?
Link's Awakening on GB?
>>336012663
But the PS2 does have a GPU, it's called Graphics Synthesizer. And the PS1 had a GPU too.
The difference between PS1/PS2 and N64 is that the former's GPUs could not do hardware polygon transform and lighting, meaning the CPU had to do that work instead. But other than that, their GPUs worked like GPUs.
In many ways, because the N64's GPU was capable of hardware polygon transform and lighting, its GPU is actually the grandfather of modern GPUs.
>>336013150
MGS3 for the ps2, pretty sure.
>>336012286
>>336011785
>“Donkey Kong Country proves that players will put up with mediocre gameplay as long as the art is good.” - Shigeru Miyamoto
>>336013327
>http://www.ign.com/articles/2010/06/17/e3-2010-shigeru-miyamoto-likes-donkey-kong-country-after-all?page=3
>"The first point that I want to make is that I actually worked very closely with Rare on the original Donkey Kong Country. And apparently recently some rumor got out that I didn't really like that game? I just want to clarify that that's not the case, because I was very involved in that. And even emailing almost daily with Tim Stamper right up until the end." - Shigeru Miyamoto
Who knows, he might have actually said that at point back then, and if he did, I'd imagine it's because of the pressure to make Yoshi's Island graphics pre-rendered like DKC (apparently like the opening art).
>>336013327
damn no wonder he died rip
>>336009016
>implying PS1 textures didn't give people motion sickness whenever the camera moved
>>336012234
Probably going to sound like a massive faggot, but doesn't that mean we're basically waiting for another Carmack-esque (i know there are better examples but I'm tired) programmer to come along and invent how to actually use the fancy shit like multiple processors and threads?
>>336013101
Jesus fuck you retard, the "cell" is not a fucking gpu. The ps4 is the first sony console with a real dedicated gpu, and by that is an apu, an AMD cpu + radeon in one chip.
>>336008090
>what is firmware?
the only thing thats different is that pc load the OS from the active main partiton then loads it into ram, game consoles have a chip inside that stores the firmware(OS) then loads it into ram.
>>336012087
Why is it a problem? Can't you just split the RAM for the CPU and GPU to use each and pretend you have 4 GB VRAM?
>>336015139
learn to read holy shit
>>336015190
Just making sure you weren't IMPLYING anything!
>>336015286
wasn't even him m8
>>336015178
The CPU and GPU share a single bus IIRC.
>>336015365
Well then, thanks to both of us the world is safe from miscommunication on the Internets once more.
From what I've gathered from this thread, it looks like more developers have become extremely inefficient and/or slack with optimizing their software to work well with the hardware right? Or is it the other way around?
>>336015178
cos more ram on the same channel wont make much of a difference cos its on the same channel.
think of it like this if you add more cars on the free way does it make the cars get to their destination faster? or would all the cars get to thier destination quicker if you opened another freeway?
>>336008090
wewlad ur dum
>>336009016
I'm pretty sure the nice textures in Conker's Bad Fur Day are due to it being released much later when the cost of cartridge memory was lower. Not saying it's not amazing, just not fair to compare to something like OOT, whose ROM is half the size.
>>336015694
You are right on the money sir.
>>336009351
>hearing them talk shit on modern programmers like a bunch of washed up jocks watching football at the bar
Fuck this is amazing
like not even talking shit on Rare this is glorious
>>336016026
No ones has mentioned that conquer has the memory expansion pack option.
>>336016117
Not even him but I too have seen them play through it (don't remember if they completed it though)
Watch it, it's fantastic. Rare were basically one of the best developers around, and they know it and shit talk nearly everything about modern gaming, and even get close to dissing microshaft but not quite.
>>336015139
I don't know if you're retarded or baiting. You'll probably pull the "merely pretending" card anyway, but you don't know how to read and you should fuck off, faggot.
>>336012663
PS3 does have a GPU its a RSX 'Reality Synthesizer'" which Nvida made and its based off a
Nvidia 7800GTX. I assume you got mixed up during the whole PS3 story where it originally wasn't gonna have a GPU during its development. Also it was a nightmare to code for was due the cell processor
>>336016615
Just go Swallow a massive donkey dick fag
>>336012234
>faggots then complain "Moore's law is ded"
>implying it's not only dead because of code that doesn't take advantage of hardware features like multiple processors and thread support
Moore's law is a statement about the raw power (or size) of processors, measured by the number of transistors, not how much you can get out of the get out of the processor.
>>336007747
low resolution id assume
>>336016183
Conker doesn't support the memory expansion pack at all.
>>336015694
>Or is it the other way around?
definetly a bit of both.
the ps4 and xbones launched with a decent enough gpu and more then enough ram but they both skimped on the same damn cpu's 'apu's and we ended up with consoles that where serveerly bottlenecked by that alone.
not to meantion the monumentally stupid decision of putting two laptop/tablet apu's in one die
Fucking retarded why not just have a single 8 core cpu and get rid of the apu horse shit.
in fact both the ps4 and xbox have two fucking gpu's are still run like shit considering they have a dedicated gpu and a intergrated gpu.
oh well thats what you get when you run low end tablet hardware from 2012
>>336019837
I think part of it is just the fact that AMD's latest CPU architecture is not particularly good.
And the fact that they put in low-end models of what was not a good CPU architecture to begin with is really what gimps both PS4 and Xbone. And of course as we know they are not true Octo-cores, being separate quad-core packages. Hell, being AMD and having not seen the die shots I wouldn't even trust them being true quad-cores. Each quad package might just be four cores that share two pools of resources.
I actually feel the N64 was gimped in the most unfortunate way. The CPU, GPU and RAM of the N64 if you take them as individual units are really good for 1996 console parts. Performance is lost in the hugely gimped motherboard which doesn't provide enough memory and data buses to let each component reach its full potential under normal circumstances.
That's why N64 is so hard to program, imagine trying to transport several Ferraris down a highway, but you can only let one Ferrari in at a time and you can't let a second one through until the first one has exited the highway. Each one speeds quickly down the highway. If you perfectly synchronize letting a new car in at the moment the previous car finishes, then you can get them all through in little time, but if you're inattentive then you waste a lot of time before letting the next car in.
>>336009514
PS1 has no Z buffer, that is enough to make the games look worse.
>>336007747
Optimization and good coding, which apparently doesn't exists this days.
>>336011608
Wii had some crazy hacks to make the games room smootly, just look at TP coding.
SO LONG GAY BOWSER
