Dark Souls Series Lore: Ask & Answer
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The last thread seemed to be pretty popular, so let's keep this going.
So did From btfo the theory that SOlaire is the God of War? Seems like it.
Could someone (most likely Gwyn) have just eaten/absorbed the first flame instead of taking a piece of it (the lord soul)? How powerful would that nigga be?
>>335983228
Aye. The Nameless King is Gwyn's firstborn.
>>335983228
>God of War?
uwotm8
Gwyn clearly is considering he commenced the dragon shoah.
inb4 "Dark 2 is good" meme starts.
Can someone explain the story of DS3 to me? Im not even talking about the lore, I have no idea what the fuck is going on
>>335983128
What are Anri's opinions on the lord of hollows ending? I dont think I'd be too happy about the whole situation myself.
>>335983240
Probably immensely, but there would be nobody else in the world to appreciate it.
>>335983639
Nobody said it was good. It was bad but some people had fun with it. That's the end of it.
>>335983639
inb4 2 haters ruin another discussion
oh wait
>>335983240
well...remember what happend with the Witch of Izalith trying to "emulate" the first flame
>>335983240
>Gwyn eats the flame and becomes the universe
Kirkbride Souls.
Will there ever be an epic tale of Havel the Rock and his followers. I have a strong fascination of his character, mostly because of his name
>>335983639
It isn't good, but the lore is still canon though.
>>335983939
I want to purge magic user scum with Havel.
Karla best girl.
>>335983706
old "heros" who link to the fire before, reborn for link with that again, but they run away and you are just another resurrected and common guy who need find them.
>>335983706
The fire is dying
The fire awekens the previouos linkers to relink it
they dont want to and fuck off to differant parts of the world
the fire awekens you and other unkindled to return them to their throwns
you eventially do this and have the choice to relink the fire, take its power, or fuck off and let it die
What's the deal with Ludeth?
he's just a scrawny cripple and we're supposed to belive he's a lord of cinder? Every other "lord" is quite capable of ruining my shit but ludeth looks like he could die to a slight breeze
Who are the Pilgrims and where are they pilgraming to?
>>335983228
Because Solaire is just a really determined guy
>>335983128
The lore is shit, stop trying to figure something that's very shallow. Most of the DS lore is headcannon of fans anyway.
>>335984141
nice pic
>>335983967
That's the only issue I see people arguing about. The story's negligible enough to not care about it at all and event o say it's not canon, but it still is. Literally filler story tier.
>>335984203
Because we was brought back poorly and with no legs. He didnt always look like that.
>>335984203
Ludeth is old m8.
Way older than Gwyn in his weakened state.
>>335983706
Lothric is supposed to link the flame but he realizes it's fucking stupid and doesnt
So now you have to kill him and link it yourself, unless you're smart enough to just end the cycle
>>335984203
You can't be this retarded. From his dialogue it's clear he linked it long ago and hasn't been doing much since. Obviously along the way he lost his legs and he's a cripple now that just rests on his throne, but he wasn't always like this. Think about what you're saying.
By your logic the Gwyn we fight in the end of Dark Souls 1 should be as strong as the Gwyn from the cinematic. Wah wah, how can that shriveled up old raisin king kill dragons, why didn't they just parry his faggot ass.
Educate yourself you peon.
>>335984095
Pls anon I can only get so erect.
>>335984203
Ludleth probably had wicked overpowered shit when he linked the flame. He doesn't need it anymore since hes content to just sit there and wait for you to set him on fire.
>>335983128
Is there anything significant about the ending of the game? It seems like every other game which is open ended as fuck.
>>335984249
I agree.
>>335983228
Every piece of Solaires armor says he's just a strong human.
>>335984141
Why do they have thrones? Why those flame linkers in particular? Where's chosen undead's throne?
What are these things?
What are they doing?
Why is Anor Londo destroyed in the openings and artwork when the main part is intact ingame?
>>335984571
Chosen Undead was a nobody who linked it. These guys were all prolific Kings who accomplished great things across the ages.
>>335984571
>Why do they have thrones? Why those flame linkers in particular? Where's chosen undead's throne?
Literally the whole thing is just a ceremony to select for strong souls. You could toss any old soul on the flame and it'd keep it going. But a week soul might keep it going for a day whereas a strong one would keep it alive for a century.
>>335984571
>Why do the people keeping our world alive have thrones
Chosen Undead doesn't need a throne.
>>335984659
Thats sad. He gave birth to the new world and nobody even knew who did it.
>>335984248
thanks its mine
>>335984325
even in the statues he's a manlet, just he has wings and a beard. All the other lords are bigger than him, and in a world of knights and shit you'd think that size would be important in determining what it means to be a lord
even if he was a powerful sorcerer or something he's still fucking tiny. Pontiff is a fantastic sorcerer and he's fucking huge, as well as an heir of fire.
face it, they just put him in so the japs could relate to someone their size
>>335984736
Real heroes don't need recognition, they just need the satisfaction of a just deed done well.
>>335984619
they're pilgrims
they're on a pilgrimage
>>335984619
Yoel literally tells you in settlement when you meet him.
They're pilgrims making a pilgrimage.
>>335984619
They're pilgrims from Londor, where Kaathe is trying to usher in an age of hollows since an age of dark kind of sucks and will turn into an age of fire again anyway
Why is there a giant tree at firelink shrine but no tree giants?
Why are the firekeepers from Dark Souls 2 not firekeepers anymore? One's a merchant and the other gives you a couple of pieces of cloth
Why did they fix the window in Anor Londo but let everything else fall apart?
Why didn't Yorshka just drop down through the prison tower?
Why does Me Me Pickle-Pee have Solaire's stuff?
Why does collecting all of the white branches kill the Archery Giant?
>>335984805
>implying linking the flame is ultimately a good thing
>>335983639
I actually think its a better game than DS3.
Is the Ashen One canonically strong as the Demon Slayer or does the Demon Slayer still holds the title of strongest mc in the series?
>>335984791
He's obviously a dex build
>>335984249
as if dark souls is some epic saga or something
>shits fucked
>it repeats 2 more times
>thats the story
you're getting uppity about flavor text
>>335984791
What statues? Also he has long fucking arms, doubt he just has tiny legs.
>>335984971
Londor DLC when
>>335985026
>or does the Demon Slayer still holds the title of strongest mc in the series?
How is Demon Slayer strongest? He never actualyl fought the Old One at all.
Good Hunter is strongest. He killed half a dozen and then became a Great One.
>>335985026
Chosen Undead is the strongest.
>>335984984
It never ends:c
>>335984912
>>335984867
I know, but to where?
>>335985127
The slayer of demon is the demon to kill all demons. The old one isn't something you can kill.
>>335985149
To Lothric? Where the lands of the lords converge?
>>335985149
To the dead dragon in the undead settlement. They get there then die cause the bridge is out.
>>335984619
Deep Church Pilgrims from Anor Londo traveling to Lothric to beseech Prince Lothric to put an end to the Age of Fire and snuff out the flame once and for all. The stone shells are to keep their corpses from wandering when they eventually collapse from exhaustion and exposure.
Poor hollow fools want nothing more than to die.
>>335985129
If he's the final boss of three how is he the strongest? We kill him
>>335985174
The Old One isn't omnipotent. It was created by god, so it can be killed.
>>335983128
What happened to his legs?
So did the Nameless King know about Gwyndolin's being eaten by Aldrich?
Clearly he fucked off with the dragons a long time ago, but came back to leave Sunlight Blade on Gwyn's tomb after Gwyn linked the fire. Did he hollow out by the time of DS3 or did he just not care about his brother?
THANKS FOR THE INFO SUCKERS
>>335985196
>>335985214
Why are they going there?
>>335985237
He's strongest from the canon characters he kills.
>>335985298
His younger brother was born cursed and passed the curse onto him, rendering him mute and crippled.
>>335985339
Even if he knew, he wouldn't care. He was a hollow mindless zombie by the time you fight him.
>>335985039
>you're getting uppity about flavor text
Nothing to hate. I still liked the game. It goes beyond flavor text and exposes how your favorite game just turned into a cash grab. It's the same as fucking saying the Star Wars pre-quels didn't have to exist.
>>335985242
>It was created by god
No it just always existed and it always will. It lives outside the normal releam of shit.
>>335985339
He came back to fuck his sister but settled for fucking his brother dressed in his sister's clothes.
>>335985237
He's not if you chose not to link the fire.
>>335985237
Cause he's weakened after all the cycles. In his prime he killed lords and gods, ashen one just kills a bunch of weakened dudes who killed other weakened dudes.
>>335985339
Would you care about your disgusting tranny brother.
>>335985026
ranking goes like this
Ashen One(After Usurping the Fire) > Chosen Undead >Ashen One(mid game) > Bearer of the Curse > Ashen One(at the start of the game)
Ashen one isn't even a true hollow undead but unkindled, an even shittier version of the undead curse. If it wasn't for the flame getting desperate he wouldn't have woken up at all.
Who is the linker of the first flame? Is he supposed to be the chosen undead, what with his many move sets representing the player from ds 1?
>>335985469
Chosen undead also fights all weaker version of the gods what the fuck are you on.
>>335985026
Let's tally them up at their 'canon' endings.
Demon Slayer 1: Becomes a monumental, spends the rest of his life hanging out with a weird bald kid.
Demon Slayer 2: Becomes a servant of the Old One, can birth demons but in a 1v1 fight he's fucking pathetic.
Chosen Undead: Becomes the second Lord of Cinder after killing one of the most powerful entities in Souls. Pretty high power level.
Bearer of The Curse: A guy sitting on a chair. Oh, but he's not undead, I'm sure that's a very, very slight power boost.
Good Hunter: Kills several unknowable gods and becomes one himself. Very high power level.
Unkindled One: Who even knows.
Playing Dark Souls and I'm in Anor Londo. I just fell in the painting and meet that Cat Lady at the end of it. Should I kill her or leave her.
>>335985149
they turn into the big flying sticks so they were probably told to go die in lothric to invade/attack by kaathe
londor dlc will expand on kaathe's plot to usurp the fire
>>335985561
weakened gods are still more impressive than weakened lords of cinder
>>335985424
No, it was created by the real God of the Demon's Souls universe.
>>335985597
Who is she too?
>>335985610
Lords of cinders are people who linked the flame just like the chosen undead did....
>>335985601
>they turn into the big flying sticks
????????????
![dark_souls___chibi_priscilla_by_iforher-d4qtqat[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/4NYnR2W.jpg "dark souls chibi priscilla by iforher-d4qtqat[1]")
>>335985597
Pls no bully.
Anyone know if a refined weapon at 20/20 will out damage a heavy or sharp weapon at 40 with minimum of str or dex required to wield it?
I ask because I want to make a pyro and I'm unsure if I should go 20/20 str/dex refined or go 40 dex sharp and 40 points mix of int/faith and using chaos gem.
>>335985026
Depends.
Who wins in a fight:
Old King Allant
Gwyn
Nashandra
Moon Presence
Soul of Cinder
Whoever wins means their MC is the strongest
WTF was going on in Dark souls 2? Was the throne of want actually a Kilin?
Why did the Emerald Herald make it out as if it was a wish machine?
Why did Nashandra want the throne if its used to re-link the fire? Isn't that bad for her?
Why does nothing make sense Geologically? Why is it implied dozens of kingdom have risen and fallen where Drangleic is and even heides tower is in ruins but anor londos castle is perectly intact?
Where are Lordran, Drangleic and Lotheric located relative to each other?
Why is it that Astora, Izalith and Catarina are long forgotten in 2 but referenced everywhere in 3?
Why is Andre there?
What are the blob things that consume Iudex gundyr and the hollows in the first area?
>>335985597
Kill her, you're saving her from a much worse fate later on
>>335985601
Those things that assist dragonslayer armor?
>>335985634
it was the god of the demons souls universe. it's based on the marceon heresy.
>>335985678
And none of them had to get through gods to do so cause chosen undead already killed em
>>335983128
I got some questions.
>What exactly makes someone a Lord of Cinder?
We didnt fight Gwyn, even though he had the title. Aldritch and Lothric didnt link the fire but they were still considered Lords of Cinder. This part confuses me the most.
>Why are Unkindled free of holowing?
All Humans should Hollow, even Unkindled ones since Humanity is tied to Humans. Every Human has a Dark Soul so an Unkindled would HAVE to have it too or you would just be a mindless Hollow. Im guessing the curse was "healed" by the DS2 protag, Aldia and the Emerald Herald after the events of Dark Souls 2.
>Untended Graves
What the fuck is it? It seems like this place is of vital importance but I cannot understand why its there or why an evil copy of the shrine handmaiden lives there (seemingly immune to the abyss too).
>Archdragon Peak. Was it not real and just apart of some dream the Ashen One had?
>>335985692
the "pilgrim butterflies" that show up at the end and bully you during the ds armor fight
>>335983128
Roll roll attack
>>335985735
Drangleic is presumably on a different continent, or at least very far away from Lordran.
>>335985546
Chosen Undead was the second person who linked the First Flame(The first being Gwyn)
After that came many others, the Soul of Cinder using all kinds of move sets represents that.
>>335985823
>They didn't have to go threw gods
>Motherfucking Aldrich ate Gywndolin and has parts of nito in him
Nigger
>>335985797
Oh, you naive fool. I guess you didn't read everything and talk to everyone.
The Old One is a false god. People worship it, thinking it's the true god, but it's just a creation of the actual creator God.
>>335985748
Will it affect me and do I net some pretty goodies?
>>335985714
Moon Presence > Soul of Cinder >>> Gwyn >Old King Allant >>>>>>>>>>> Asylum Demon > Nashandra
>>335983128
The last thread wasn't done and was made 6 minutes before this one you autistic moron
>>335984994
>>335983639
>>335983821
The sheer fact that S3's mediocrity is retroactively making DS2 seem good (especially with SotFS) is astounding. Tell me you wouldn't want powerstancing, dual wield, and guard breaks back. Of course some things were horrible, it looks like shit, design is ridiculous, easiest souls game, but at least they tried to break the fucking mold. We'll see how it all pans out in the end with the DLC and patches but unless they add some things to better balance and make more builds viable I don't think the online will stay alive.
>>335985424
no. God created humans then realized they suffer because their souls allow them to feel feels. Creates the old one to wipe them off the face of the earth. It was meant as a mercy killing but humans decided to fight against it.
>>335985735
dark souls 2 existed in an age of deep seas, it's what aldrich was trying to prevent.
gwyndolin kept anor londo okay under the ocean, the rest of the gods fucked off to heides.
drang is miles and miles above lordran, some shit floated down when the sea drained at some point.
dark souls 3 is what became of lordran. after the sea drained winged beings started showing up and made lothric where the duke's archives were. Gwynevere marries one of these beings - Ocerios and the rest is history.
>>335985931
Cut off her tail.
>>335985830
>What exactly makes someone a Lord of Cinder?
linking the fire.
What was that dog in the cave on the road of Sacrifices? There's two dogs, but one has a giant malformed sac on it's belly. I'm pretty sure it's the only one in the game. It's also near two bodies with a ring from Carim (Morne's Ring) and a Carim Braille Divine Tome.
I feel like there's a story there.
>>335985862
You're right just sold my game because of this truth, I am free. Thank you.
>>335985902
>Nito
>Still dead after all these years
The guys got dedication Ill give him that, even after being killed hes STILL dead.
>>335983128
Does it say anywhere if the surviving Black Knights teamed up with Lothric to fight the demons? Also, why do the Black Knights in the Untended Graves disappear when they die, but not the others?
>>335985967
>The sheer fact that S3's mediocrity is retroactively making DS2 seem good
Since when?
This is just that same old shit where when a new game comes out people suddenly start going on about how the last one was better. I wish I could say I expected people to be better than to say Dark 2 is better than anything, but this is /v/.
>>335983228
People literally ignored Solaire's armor where it straight-up fucking said, he was just a dude
A really bad-ass, powerful and benevolent dude, yeah, but nothing more
>>335985902
He did so after linking the flame correct? And Gwendolyn was captured and defenceless and Nito was already dead, unless he magically came back to life in which case the whole plot is fucked
>>335983639
DS2>DS3
>>335985910
good shit, so it really was just God trying to get rid of the soul arts?
>>335985343
np, hurry up and make a fucking lore video you goddamn hack
>>335986092
You do realize Pontiff works under the chapel of deep the right the chapel who serves aldrich. If alrich pope can take out gods what makes you think he can't? He even stood right into the abyss/deep without fear.
So what the hell were those demons/old demon king and why did they kill all the stray/capra demons
>>335986000
where the fuck are you getting that from? what proof is there that lordran was underwater?
>>335985830
>Untended Graves
you aren't the first of your kind. probably some ties to artorias and implications he was an unkindled at some point too maybe?
>>335985902
>has parts of Nito in him
Bones =/= Nito.
Nito is dead. Actually dead. His soul was burnt up in the First Flame, and when it reincarnated in Dark 2's shitty story it wasn't Nito, it was The Rotten who was the host.
Nito, as you know him, doesn't exist any more. Even if Aldrich ate whoever was carrying Nito's soul (I really don't consider the reincarnation canon anyway, since it's never mentioned in Dark 3) he would look like Nito, he would look like whoever was holding Nito's soul.
>>335985735
>Why did Nashandra want the throne if its used to re-link the fire? Isn't that bad for her?
Nashandra wanted power, not the throne. The throne was only a way to achieve that power. I dont know how.
>Why does nothing make sense Geologically? Why is it implied dozens of kingdom have risen and fallen where Drangleic is and even heides tower is in ruins but anor londos castle is perectly intact?
Time is convoluted bro
>Where are Lordran, Drangleic and Lotheric located relative to each other?
Doesnt matter, time and space are being torn apart in Dark Souls 3. Nothing has to make sense since reality is literally falling apart.
>Why is it that Astora, Izalith and Catarina are long forgotten in 2 but referenced everywhere in 3?
2 is on the other side of the world. Also, just general retcon bullshit.
>Why is Andre there?
Memes. No, im not joking. The series has become Meme Souls at this point. Not even one line of dialogue or any item description has even tried to offer half an explanation on why some old blacksmith has survived for thousands of years or why hes just fucking around in Firelink Shrine.
>>335986052
my pet theory is the bodies are the pair from carim you pick up in the settlement (hammer dude and fire keeper miracle seller).
>>335986104
The Old One is the source of the soul arts.
God only knows why God made the Old One. Maybe it was a punishment for something humans did in the primordial years of the world.
>>335984141
but what is an unkindled?
If its just an undead then why did they change the word, usually they're pretty specific with why they chose certain words.
>>335986019
>linking the fire.
Read my post, two Lords of Cinder never even got close to linking the fire.
>>335985830
>What exactly makes someone a Lord of Cinder?
My guess is someone who either linked the fire or was chosen by the Flame to link it.
>Why are Unkindled free of holowing?
They are not, a lot of unkindled NPCs go hollow during your journey and you can go hollow yourself if you have a dark sigil in your inventory and die enough times.
Untended Graves is the Firelink Shrine in the past, that much is certain.
And Archdragon Peak was real, I think, otherwise you wouldn't have gotten the soul of the Nameless King.
>>335986229
the fact that an ocean is present there at all.
in DaS the only areas that could be described as remotely aquatic were ash lake and darkroot basin.
darkroot basin is now an ocean with a shitty skybox
>>335985830
lord of cinder status is just being powerful. think of how your character endures a harsh journey to become powerful enough to link the flame, thus you're a lord of cinder.
>>335986342
the living ash of a former champion
>>335985735
I thought it basically was a wish machine, but the player wishes to end the curse of the undead, which presumably is done by linking the fire. Why would the Giants need to link the fire? They don't turn undead. I mean heck its literally called the Throne of Want.
>>335986343
>two Lords of Cinder never even got close to linking the fire.
Who are these then?
Lothric didn't link the fire, but the other four did. Do you mean that Lothric and Lorian count as one?
>>335986321
interesting shit, demons definitely had better lore.
>>335986473
Lothric and Aldritch.
>>335986480
Demon's lore was less complex by far. It had some interesting little implications, like all the weird stuff at Shrine of Storms, and the implication that Flamelurker is the demon of Big M the dragon slayer.
But the central story lore was pretty straight forward.
>>335986392
But darkroot basin used to be oolacile, and there's more water in darkroot basin now than there was when it was oolacile. But oolacile preceded darkroot basin, so if the oceans were gradually draining, why is there more water there now?
>>335986392
>New Londo Ruins
>>335986009
Noted.
Brb. Going to slay some mad pussy.
What exactly is "hollowing" and what exactly is "humanity"?
Was Aldritch always a blob?
>>335986084
It's sad because everyone who thinks DS2 was the worst thing to ever happen to the souls series overlooks everything good about it. Like I said, tell me you would not want powerstance, dual wield, and guard breaks back. The sheer amount of small things that were improved from 1 to 2 was great, and it's still a fucking souls game at heart. DS2 was absolutely shit on because it failed to capture the atmosphere of 1, but many people enjoyed it because as a sequel, it was a huge improvement. Soul memory flopped hard but so is weapon upgrade matchmaking too. You're delusional if you think the only reason people like 2 is because the third is out, it's just missing almost everything that made 2 good.
>>335985830
Based on Champion Gundyrs soul/other details, seems like that place is what happens when the flame dies out. Gundyr was too late, flame died, now it's a dark world.
It would explain everything except for why it seems to be in a different plot of space and time.
>>335986370
>And Archdragon Peak was real, I think, otherwise you wouldn't have gotten the soul of the Nameless King.
it was real but there was some fuckery going on there. time travel or astral projection or something
>>335986541
Where did you get that? Aldrich linked the fire, that's why he was awakened by the bell. Lord of Cinder isn't a title, you earn it. Lothric is only called a Lord of Cinder because that was supposed to be his destiny. He never actually became an official one.
Aldrich linked the flame, same as the others.
>>335986594
No he used to be a guy, but he ate so many people he turned into a blob of goo for some reason.
>>335986585
lack of humanity
having a soul, "life force" whatever you want to call it.
>>335984659
>Chosen Undead
>a nobody
Pick one
>Attire of the Painting Guardians, whose forms are described in the mythology of heretics.
>The hunchbacked teller of ancient tales describes unwanted souls who are unwelcome across the lands, and are eventually drawn into a cold, painted world.
>Great scythe of the forlorn souls guided by heretical storytellers. The Mistress of the Painted World is said to wield a great scythe herself.
WHO ARE THE CORVIANS
WHAT'S THEIR DEAL
>>335984203
Ludleth was just a random mook in the same vein as the player when he linked the fire many, many, many ages ago. One of his lines upon you first meeting Ludleth involves him referring to himself as a charred corpse.
He used to be badass, but he linked the fire and got burned to shit and is utterly ancient.
>>335986585
Humanity is the fragments of the original Dark Soul that Manus shared with the other humans. It's what makes a hollow into a human.
Hollowing is a human reverting to their natural form that they had before they were given pieces of the Dark Soul.
What the fuck is the Age of Deep Waters?
>>335985513
>>335985563
Why does it always seem like Bearer of the Curse being so low is a dig at DS2 as a whole?
>>335985967
>patch to make more builds viable
GIT
GUD
>>335986608
Dark 2 was a big handful of good ideas that were unfortunately wasted on a bad game.
There's lots of stuff from Dark 2 that was a great addition, and some things I'd like to see back. But the game itself is bad, shamefully so. I wish I could travel to the alternate universe where they didn't get fucked over during development. In another place, in another time, Dark 2 might be the best Souls game.
>>335986698
All you had to do to be the chosen undead was to leave the asylum.
WHAT IS A LORD OF CINDER???? Is a common question. I hope to answer it.
Lords of Cinder are not people who have linked the fire, merely people who are viable candidates to be used as KINDLING to link the NEXT fire.
Our primary source on the matter is Ludleth. He seems to know a lot.
"Five thrones will take five lords, as kindling for the linking of the fire."
This quote from Lud pretty fucking clearly states the purpose of a LoC. The thrones turn the lords into kindling, so that the fire may be linked again.
"Fine kindling for the thrones, is it not, each soul truly worthy of Lordship"
If you work backwards in this quote, you can see that for a soul to be worthy of Lordship, it must be useable as kindling for the thrones. This again reinforces the fact that the purpose, the duty of a LoC is to sacrifice themself as kindling.
At first I thought that LoC WERE all linkers of the fire, but the more you look the more you realise that;
There is absolutely no referrence to Aldrich or the Abyss Watchers linking the fire
Yhorms relation to linking the fire is only solid if you presuppose that LoC have linked the fire. If not, it simply means he is preparing to be used as kindling.
Ludleth is the only LoC that seems to have a solid, direct relation to a previous linking.
As for Prince Lothric, Emma states
"Tell him what he must be, A lord.." before she randomly dies for some reason.
From this, we can ascertain that Lothric ISNT ACTUALLY A LORD until we make him one. Aka, until we turn him into kindling for the flame.
Gilligan is the most powerful figure in Souls. Without ladders, chosen undead cannot finish his quest.
>>335986454
You dont need to be a human to do it. You just need a powerful soul. Gwyn was't human and neither was Yorm.
>>335986594
This might be completely off, but I think the statues of a kindly, hunched old man in Irithyll might be him. It's either him or Archdeacon McDonnel, who also looks weird and bloated like he's been eating people.
>>335986698
All hes known for is setting himself on fire all alone. Nobody even knows his name was 420SasukeSephiroth1997.
>>335986708
Wheel Skellies forced to spin forever.
>>335986795
>Gilligan is the only reason we could reach yhrom
Man is a hero
>>335986768
clutch that estoc tight
>>335986642
Aldritch was made a Lord of Cinder "through might".
Also,
>Lord of Cinder isn't a title, you earn it
>Lothric is only called a Lord of Cinder because that was supposed to be his destiny
Way to contradict yourself in the same breath.
>>335986642
This is wrong lord of cinder is a title for those who have souls strong enough to act as kindling for the fire
Would I be retarded in assuming that Lordran and that whole area acts as some physical version of the afterlife
>>335985678
nah not all of them linked the flame, the prince being obvious since he tells you
has more to do with inheriting or seizing lord souls fragments and shit im thinking
>>335986708
Inhabitants of the painted world that were kicked out for undisclosed reasons, most likely due to the painted world ceasing to exist. They tell stories about how amazing it was to have a place where an outcast could feel at home because now they're just shitty migrants again.
>>335986765
Dark 2 was on a much smaller scale than the others, which is actually something kind of interesting I liked about the game.
So naturally the powerlevels are lower. Even the dumb fanfiction, canon breaking reincarnated lords were far, far weaker than their original forms.
I mean, fuck, the Prisoner boss was just pathetic. It's just a woman with a sword. It's not even a big tough knight, it's literally a skinny prick with a big sword.
So even if you liked Dark 2 (you shouldn't), it's just a lower powerlevel than the others. All the major bosses in Dark 1 are the original heirs of the First Flame, all the big bosses in Dark 3 are linkers of the First Flame. All the big bosses in Dark 2 are just random dudes who happened to find a powerful soul.
>>335985883
Really wished that his soul transposed sword changed the moveset like the original does, it would have been awesome
>>335986765
It's more about the unimportance of the bossses Bearer kills.
DaS1 made it pretty fucking clear all the main lords were.
>>335986741
What supposedly comes after our during an age of dark.
But the deep is referenced many times as must being a state of darkness.
Maybe water in DaS universe is allegorical to darkness because water kills fire.
>>335986765
I'm not really hating DS2, It's just that save it for a few bosses the DS2 protag didn't really beat any powerful people lorewise.
>>335986918
Why would you assume this?
>>335985934
moon presence really wasn't that special
the death stare was fun but besides that pretty plain, not to say he's a bad boss tho either
>>335986786
>WHAT IS A LORD OF CINDER????
Lord of Cinder: Someone who linked the flame.
Lothric is the only one who didn't, so he's not a true lord of cinder. He's a powerful soul, though, presumably because the First Flame chose him, so he's kind of like an honorary lord and you need his ashes for the linking.
>>335986918
but it is. its all undead who can bleed and curiously die yet again.
>>335986912
No, he definitely linked the fire. He was chosen to link the fire because he was strong, even though he was undeserving.
>>335986795
Honestly, he was my favorite character callback. It's simultaneously a little reference to a previous game that doesn't go overboard, and also explains all the giant ladders everywhere.
>>335987016
Dark is a weird word because we assume it means darkness, but in the context of the game is means humanity, human beings. An age of dark is just one where humans are the only things left of note.
>>335986912
>Aldritch was made a Lord of Cinder "through might".
OK, and how does that imply he never linked the flame? Aldrich linked it for power, not to save the world from an age of dark.
And that wasn't a contradiction at all. Lothric is just CALLED a lord of cinder. He's not a true, official one.
>>335986969
>L2 cycles through the 4 different movesets
muh dick
but then everyone would be using it
>>335987052
>Lord of Cinder: Someone who linked the flame.
Okay
>Lothric is the only one who didn't
Okay, so which is it? Dont say he wasnt a "true" Lord of Cinder because you need his ashes all the same. Like it or not, a Lord fo Cinder does not have to actually link the fire.
>>335986968
>the dumb fanfiction, canon breaking
Wow, that's your stance huh? You don't like a sequel and suddenly it's canon breaking fanfiction.
>>335986808
Gwyn and Yhorm (presumably, since his best buddy sets out to kill him) both go hollow though. The Giants don't seem to have that problem, they just turn into trees and come back to life.
>>335986741
Everything is under water
>>335987086
>gilligan's corpse surrounded by piles of treasure and dozens of ladders
He died doing what he loved. Being a dick ass thief and making fucking ladders.
Best character.
One thing I didn't like was the implication that an age of Dark never happened, that the flame was linked every time.
I would have loved if, say Aldrich, had been a Lord of Dark instead.
>>335986242
>>335985830
The Artorias armor being there is probably reference to a couple things.
1. The place being dark, much like Abyss
2. Artorias failed, much like Gundyr
Archdragon Peak is very real. you can fucking see it from the spot where you do the gesture ffs.
you most likely get carried there by the bird when you do path of the dragon for long enough, like when you hold up the sign or curl up like an egg.
Why did Yhom have so much fucking loot?
>>335986392
eh im not really buying all of it but miyazaki did like playing around with the theme of water in bloodborne as well
>>335986893
>nigga went all the way to Anor Londo, got past Aldrich and his cult, made his way across the Irithyll Dungeon just to put a ladder in the Profaned Capital should someone there ever need one.
Truly the unsung hero of the series.
>>335987031
Literally just headcanon. I know it barely adds up but I like to believe that it acts as some sort of afterlife for the curse. Cursed seem to be drawn to it, either willingly or not. They're sent or quests or embark on quests alone and often forget how it came to be or the memories of their past and it all seems to be the breeding grounds of the gods, as well as hosting apocalyptic circumstances, convoluted timelines and an ultimate quest for each undead, which I like to interpret as the quest that one must go on in purgatory to cleanse yourself of sin.
Also other kingdoms seem to do decently well, catarina, astora, vinheim etc
>>335987280
Oh my
>>335987153
It breaks canon because Seathe's soul was reincarnated into Freja.
Seathe never had a soul. He was just borrowing Gwyn's. His soul blended back into Gwyn's when you linked the fire, and was reincarnated along with the Four Kings shard as the Iron King.
How can Seathe's soul reincarnate when he didn't have one?
Also, the dragon in the memory gives you a dragon's soul, which is contradictory to the most important and lore event in the entire series. Dragons don't have souls. I can buy that Sinh is a fake dragon so has a soul, but the real dragon in the dragon memory cannot have a soul.
This makes no sense. So people link the fire than get re-incarnated to re-link it again? Does that mean Ashen one already went through this shit?
>>335987121
>OK, and how does that imply he never linked the flame? Aldrich linked it for power
Nothing says he linked it. He was simply powerful and granted the status of Lord fo Cinder.
And you dont gain power by linking the fire, it fucking kills you. Aldritch wants the Deep, not the Age of Fire. It makes no sense for him to link it.
>Lothric is just CALLED a lord of cinder. He's not a true, official one.
No, he actually is a true, official one. You NEED his ashes to continue to the kiln of the first flame. He has a throne just for him. Like it or not, Lothric is indeed a Lord fo Cinder and since he never linked the flame and holds the status of Lord of Cinder its certainly possible for Aldritch to so the same.
>>335986786
why now need five LoC and not just only one like before? was just because Prince Lothric don't wanna and the time is over?
>>335987025
which makes it kind of believable.
I always had a problem with how all those mighty lords from the beginning of fire just so happen to live within the same tiny kingdom.
>>335986741
i guarantee you the next setting they use for the "souls" formula is some underwater shit.
>>335987250
>you most likely get carried there
why would they not show it then?
>>335987286
I don't know how much I buy it, but it's strange that only now do we have any reference to water at all.
You'd think there would be some sort of water theme relating to snuffing out the flame instead of letting it die over time.
>>335986242
>probably some ties to artorias and implications he was an unkindled at some point too maybe
Absolute fanfiction
so im gonna go ahead and take a guess and say that dark souls 2 is in an alternate universe or something
>>335987318
>He got pasted all those fucking jailers with his based schitar
May the gods smile upon that man
threadly reminder that Archdragon Peak is a dream
>>335987121
>Aldrich linked it for power
Doesn't linking the flame mean you have to stay by it while it eats your soul and you go hollow? How does that make you powerful
>>335987348
Except Dragons do have Souls. They give out Souls when they die.
>>335987391
The flame is that fucked.
>>335987463
>and say that dark souls 2 is in an alternate universe or something
No, it's just the polarizing title in the series like Zelda 2 and many other 2's.
Ignore 2-posting.
>>335987479
That's one fucking metal dream.
>>335986009
Welp. Couldn't do it. Tail wouldn't cut off.
She dead thoug.h
>>335987463
Or takes place after DaSIII
>>335987220
Go read Champion Gundyrs soul and really think about the area you find it in
There is NOTHING. Its just nothing. it's not interesting, its not cool, it is nothing.
>>335987380
How can you become a Lord of Cinder just by people saying you are? He has the power of cinder, he starts burning in his second phase. He's a full Lord of Cinder.
>linking the fire kills you
No it doesn't. We established that in the first game. Gwyn linked the fire and lived, though he went hollow.
Ludleth linked the fire and lived.
Yhorm linked the fire and lived.
The Wolf Blood linked the fire and lived.
So why can't Aldrich link the fire and live?
If you don't have to link the fire to become a Lord of Cinder then what do you think that title even means? You think it's just an arbitrary name given to anyone who wants it? Ludleth is basically a nobody, so why would he be Lord of Cinder if he didn't link the flame?
You're an idiot. Lord of Cinder = one who linked the flame.
>>335987463
No, it's the same universe. Just a different part of the world.
"When the Drang Knights disbanded, they scattered across the lands as sellswords. They quickly became known for shieldless, aggressive tactics that struck fear in the hearts of men."
Drangleic fell, everyone got the fuck out. Some of them crossed the world and ended up in Lordran.
>>335987479
>untended graves is just an illusion
>Archdragon peak is just an illusion
>Ludex Gundyr is just an illusion
>Ornstein was just an illusion
>Everything is just a fucking illusion
Bravo Dark Souls.
>>335985830
Aldrich did link the fire. That's why he burst into flames.
>>335987132
That would be amazing and better than the current meta. Just think, everyone running around with 4 movesets to fuck with. Glorious.
>>335985678
Aldritch literally eats gods. That makes the lords of cinder either on par with the gods or above them.
In fact, the "gods" aren't even really gods. Just Hollows who got a part of the flame. The flame can be seen as nothing more than a huge mass of souls.
>>335987479
>sit down
>fade to black
>dragon roars
>now you're in archdragon peak
BRaVo MIYAZAKI
>>335986894
I'm using the corvian great knife try again bitch nigga
>>335987561
you only missed a shitty dagger
>>335987280
All throughout the building with Yhorm's boss room in it, there's horribly charred corpses surrounded by golden loot. I know there's some text that says the profaned flame burned exclusively human flesh. So I would assume that the Profaned Capital was once some kind of hedonistic dystopia, then one day hellfire rains down, and the people with their mixed up priorities try to get as much treasure as they can rather than escape with their lives. In the end, you have mounds of unscathed treasure surrounded by horribly burned corpses.
>>335987570
No, the Shield of Want and Drang weapons/armor are pretty explicit. DS2 happened before DS3.
>>335987025
fume knight is one of the hardest bosses in the series. he kills an even stronger version of kalameet which was the most powerful boss in dark souls
>>>335986968
>All the major bosses in Dark 1 are the original heirs of the First Flame
you are leaving out the fact that they are all severely weakened or going mad
>>335987517
>I didn't play Dark Souls
Why the fuck are you even in this thread then?
Dragons give tail weapons because the devs wanted you to get their boss weapons but they didn't have souls.
The basic fucking lore of the entire universe is that souls didn't exist until the First Flame appeared. Dragons never had souls, and never could have them. Seathe's soul was just borrowed, it wasn't truly his.
>>335987440
just some spitballing because there's a lot of artorias stuff in firelink for basically no reason
>>335987473
They drained all his HP from afar, it lasted just long enough for him to lay the ladder down.
>>335983821
>Artificial difficulty is bad game design unless it's Dark Souls and then it's okay
>>335987604
Fucking Gwyndolin
>>335987651
>Profaned Capital was once some kind of hedonistic dystopia, then one day hellfire rains down
I guess, since it is the PROFANED capital after all.
>>335987570
inb4 "Dark souls 3 â–º Pharros is the ashen one"
>>335987663
>Bed of Chaos
>weakened
It's literally the most dangerous thing in the world. It's a shitty boss fight, but in lore it's near unstoppable.
Nito isn't weak either. His soul isn't nearly as burnt up as Gwyn's, or divided as the Dark Soul.
>>335987651
>even more subtle Biblical imagery
Bravo Miyazaki
The intertwining level design of DaS1 was dumb luck wasn't it? Miyazaki will never pull it off again will he?
>>335987604
>The sun is an illusion
>>335987250
Archdragon Peak being a real place doesn't mean when you go there it isn't a dream
you are literally shown falling asleep
>>335987740
Nitos power was being drained by pinwheel wasn't it though?
>>335987740
>bed of chaos
>most dangerous thing in the world
it's literally a bug.
>>335987380
Aldrich went on fire in his second stage dipshit. That clearly unequivocally shows his soul was used as fuel for the first flame.
>>335987660
Time is fucked :^ )
But seriously, that's kinda gay if true.
DaSII just has this eir of being set aside from DaS and DaSIII. It'd be easier to swallow if it took place afterwards.
Why weren't the dragons smart enough to just use the first flame for themselves?
>>335987587
i guess they just handled it really shitty in das3.
>>335984115
I see people saying she's one of Manus' children.
Do they say that because of the "But I am guilty. A wretched child of the Abyss," line?
>>335987651
Profaned Flame pyromancy flavor text.
"The Profaned Capital was consumed by fire after Yhorm the Giant became a Lord of Cinder. The fire, born of the sky, is said to have incinerated naught but human flesh."
Yhorm conquers the Profaned Capital back when it had a name. He ends up linking the fire and becoming a lord of cinder, but doing so causes the profaned flame to consume his kingdom.
>>335987740
Fucking pinwheel stole his power. Since the darksign came about no one's been dying, Nito has nothing going for him.
>>335987580
>Ludleth linked the fire and lived.
>Yhorm linked the fire and lived.
>The Wolf Blood linked the fire and lived.
dude, they just resurrect from the dead (DS3 intro)
>>335983128
The Dark Ending where you kill the Firekeeper doesn't give you the dark ending achievement.
This seems intentional.
>>335986642
Lorian uses the lord of cinder embers despite not even supposed to be one like Lothric
I'm pretty sure the lord of cinder thing is decided by power, too.
>>335987678
Someone needs to make a comic about this
>>335987843
The dragons didn't do anything. Their whole deal was doing nothing.
>>335987872
Every single human being is technically a child of the abyss. The fact that she comments on it leads me to believe she's more connected than most.
>>335987864
Dark Souls 2 existing in the first place doesn't help, but let's be real, Dark Souls never needed sequels to begin with.
So whats the fucking deal with firelink shrine being its own place outside lothric, being dark in lothtric, and then again that shit showed up in the kiln?
>>335987740
there are different kinds of power. bed of chaos wasnt dangerous in a fight, it was a literal bug. it was dangerous in the fact that it created demons.
nito ower was being drained by pinwheel for a long ass time, hes weak as fuck
4 kings are just jabronies currpted by the abyss
seath is mad and a complete retard who even breaks his own damn immortality crystal
gwyn is just a hollow version of himself
they really arent anything special in the souls universe to be honest
>>335988005
I always wondered about the DS1 intro. The dragon that's shown is just sitting there and it looks like stone or like it's not even breathing.
Did the dumb fucking dragons really just "sit there" for millions of years doing nothing?
>>335988014
>demon's souls never needed sequels to begin with
ftfy :^)
>>335987923
Oh, OK.
Well then you've just contradicted yourself. if Aldrich resurrected then he must have linked the fire.
There we go.
>>335987663
That's why I said save it for a few, also the Ancient Dragon is an optional boss and it's unclear whether or not the Protag kills them in the lore. (Chosen Undead for example, didn't kill Gwyndolin)
>>335988014
>Dark Souls never needed sequels to begin with.
Considering 1 was literally half-done, I'd argue that strongly.
>>335985714
I don't know about the moon presence, since Great Ones in BB are their own thing and can't really be compared power level wise to things in the Dark Souls Universe.
Same for King Allant since we don't really know how demons from Demon's Souls compare to entities in Dark Souls, seeing as how demons in Dark Souls are literally mindless beasts born as a mistake and not really that powerful.
But I'd put the others like this.
Soul Of Cinder>=Gwyn>Nashandra
The reason being that Gwyn at the end of DS1 is just a fucking husk and has almost no power left. I mean from his original Lord Soul he
>Used some to make Silver Knights sentient
>Gave half to Seath and the Four Kings
>Gave some to create a race of gods
>Used most of what he had left to link the fire
Nashandra is just a shard of Manus, and Manus had already split his Dark Soul among all of humanity, so Nashandra wasn't really much.
Soul of Cinder is what's left of everyone who has linked the fire combined into one. So even though each individual soul is mostly depleted, their combination still makes him powerful. Even Gwyn is in there, so he should at least as strong as Gwyn at the end of DS1.
Gwyn at his prime rapes them all though.
>>335987580
But the Twins refused to link it.
seems like it's just given to people that are worthy.
The game explicitly states this:
Soul of the Twin Princes. One of the twisted souls, steeped in strength.
Use to acquire numerous souls, or transpose to extract its true strength.
The two princes rejected their duty to become Lords of Cinder, and settled down far, far away to watch the fire fade from a distance. A curse makes their souls nearly inseparable.
>Rejected their duty
Do you know what that means? They were destined to become Lords of Cinder but fucked off. That means that they were chosen. Which means no, you do NOT need to link the flame to become a LoC.
You can not argue this, this is text from the game. They even said "the mantle of lords interests him none" after calling you "another dogged contender"
others have tried to get them to link the flame, you may not even be the first ashen one. they do NOT want to and did NOT do it
>>335987636
>dagger
good. i'm loving my broadsword and black knight sword too much.
>>335988081
>they really arent anything special in the souls universe to be honest
The healthiest, strongest thing you fight in Dark Souls is probably Kalameet. You fight him at (nearly) the pinnacle of his strength, and he was a dragon "Even anor londo feared".
>>335987651
Profaned Capital was Yhorm's kingdom after he defeated the demons and the people crowned him King.
After he became lord of cinder though, all hell broke loose in the city.
>>335987623
Just because Pontiff fed Aldrich a sick god fuckboy doesnt automatically out lords of cinders on the same tier as gods
The Abyss Watchers are pretty much just equal to Darkwraiths
>>335988089
sinh man, not ancient dragon. but fuck ancient dragon that fight is lame
>>335988082
Probably. Its not like there was anything going on until the tiny assholes came out of the ground and started throwing lightning around.
>>335987580
>No it doesn't. We established that in the first game. Gwyn linked the fire and lived, though he went hollow.
Gwyn was still burning, he hadnt yet turned into ash. He would be killed if the Chosen Undead hadnt killed him.
>Ludleth linked the fire and lived.
>Yhorm linked the fire and lived.
>The Wolf Blood linked the fire and lived.
"When the link of fire is threatened, the bell tolls. Unearthing the old lords of cinder from their graves."
They fucking died linking the flame you giant retard. You dont survive being burnt alive until you are just ash. You power the flame by using yourself as fuel god dam.
>If you don't have to link the fire to become a Lord of Cinder then what do you think that title even means?
I dont know what it means but you obviously dont have to do shit to be a Lord of Cinder since Lothric is one and hes literally a cripple that wants to see the fire die.
>Ludleth is basically a nobody, so why would he be Lord of Cinder if he didn't link the flame?
Linking the flame is not required though 3/5 of the Lords of Cinder have linked it (4/6 if you count Gwyn). Ludleth linked it and is a powerful mage.
>Lord of Cinder = one who linked the flame.
Lothric literally gives you "Cinders of a Lord" so you are wrong and just spouting nonsense. Lothric never linked the flame and doesnt want to but hes still a Lord of Cinder. Thats just canon fact.
>>335988082
They aren't alive. They have more in common with a mountain than anything else. Before the first flame life and death weren't a thing, and living things being around corrupts the dragons like Gaping.
>>335988209
>"Even anor londo feared".
Because of his dumb eye powers.
If Gough wasn't blind, we wouldn't have needed to finish him off.
>>335985748
What fate is that?
>>335988209
yes, and as the series goes on we fight even stronger versions of dragons, like sinh, ancient "dragon", ancient wyvern and so on. hes really not unique or special anymore, even thoguh he is a really fun and cool fight
>>335986917
>Lord of Cinder is a title for those with strong souls
Why would they be 'Lords' then? Why not just put their name in a catalogue for when the fire needs linking?
The Lords of Cinder linked the flame, and became gods, basically. They gained power from the linking, and became rulers of their age. Eventually they died as their respective ages came to an end.
Lord of Cinder isn't just a little badge you give people with powerful souls. They have power relating to the First Flame, if they weren't actual linkers then they'd have no actual connection to the flame.
>>335988209
>Fight him at the pinnacle of his strength
>gets shot by Gough, crippled, and has a giant arrow lodged in his abdomen
>pinnacle of his strength
>>335987823
>Being on fire proves he was a lord of cinder
So every enemy that has anything to do with fire is a Lord of Cinder, according to you.
>>335986567
yhey were gradually rising until ds2, drained gradually until ds3, then have begun rising again and aldrich fears this.
>>335986568
manually flooded, likely by the water in darkroot
>>335988253
Lothric is not a Lord of Cinder
multiple items say he was destined to be one, nothing says he is one
>>335988087
I'm not the anon who you respond before, just poiting that out
>>335988338
>hes really not unique or special anymore
He is though. Sinh has a massive harpoon through his chest, and the ancient wyvern is partially decaying. Kalameet is at the very least ALIVE.
>>335987872
That and the description of her Ashes
>The spurned child of the Abyss never dies, but phases in and out of its fringes. Only, there is no one to search for her any longer.
Also the fact that she flirts with you after you prove yourself strong enough would certainly draw some comparisons with how other fragments of Manus seek power and ambition above all else.
>>335988389
You get lord of cinder ashes when you will him.
>>335988253
You've just contradicted yourself, anon.
If the Lords of Cinder died linking the flame then they must have been true lords of cinder, yes?
And yet you say Lothric is a true lord of cinder, yet he never died in the flame.
Make up your mind. If Lothric is a lord of cinder then you don't need to link the flame to become one. This is wrong.
Lothric is not a true lord of cinder. He was chosen by the flame but failed to link it, that's the entire fucking plot of this game.
>>335987843
>Dragons = stasis, nothing, and void
>Fire = chaos, existence, and space/time
The Dragons could never have harnessed its power. It was directly opposite of everything the Dragons are.
>>335987391
Because the power the lords had when they linked the fire was all burned away. There's so little left in them that it takes all five to do what one did. No one's willing to step up and do it alone, so the flame is desperate.
What is a dark soul? How is it related to humanity?
>>335985026
I'm pretty sure Ashen One is weak shit. Can't even link the fire correctly.
>>335988087
No, you retard. Aldritch doesnt have to link the fire to be a Lord of Cinder since Lothric didnt either.
Fuck you have a thick skull.
>>335988452
Lothric is just called a Lord of Cinder. All the NPCs give you ashes too.
Calling his ashes Lord Ashes doesn't make it so. He was raised to become a lord of cinder but failed to do so. Every time they call him a lord of cinder it's a lie.
>>335988452
because he was destined to be one?
when you kill The Rotten in DaS2 you get Nito's soul, that doesn't mean The Rotten is literally Nito
>>335988417
did you even play dark souls? kalameet gets a fucking giant arrow throuh his wing. the reason WHY sinh is so strong is because of the spear giving him all those poison powers. hes not dying because of it, hes thriving
>>335987391
It's entropy.
The flame gets harder and harder to link every time. It just keeps getting hungrier.
Eventually the flame will ask for more power to rekindle than exists.
>>335987663
>kalameet which was the most powerful boss in dark souls
Manus?
Wasn't Lorian (before being cursed) supposedly super powerful? Would he be able to beat his uncle (Nameless King)?
>>335988562
>when you kill The Rotten in DaS2 you get Nito's soul, that doesn't mean The Rotten is literally Nito
why dont people understand this?
>>335988340
This is wrong on several levels
Lothric literally just doesnt link the fire, yet is still a lord
Aldrich didnt become god-tier by linking the fire, he did so by literally eating gods and became a lord through might
The Abyss Watchers were just a big group of Artorias fanboys who ran around destroying any signs of the abyss. Even if one of them linked the fire, they didnt gain the powers of a god and still ended up getting infected by the Abyss despite the fact that anyone who links the fire fucking dies
>>335988525
Again, why would you think Aldrich didn't link the flame?
And please, explain to me the events of this scenario.
Does a committe come to Aldrich's house, assess him and decide that he's allowed to call himself a Lord of Cinder? Why doesn't he have to link the flame like everyone else? Yhorm had to burn himself in the flame, why does Aldrich get to skip that part?
And we've established 27 times that Lothric isn't an official Lord of Cinder.
What are the primordial serpents? Why are there two of them, and why do multiple show up at the end of Dark Souls 1? What do they gain from helping the Chosen Undead?
What exactly is a Dark Lord? What is the Age of Dark?
>>335987872
think about where you find her. shes down in the super deep underground section of the prison guarded by 10 jailers.
>>335988454
Dude you need mental help.
Ludleth, Abyss watchers, and Yhorm all linked the flame and died.
Linking the fire does not make you s Lord of Cinder since Lothric is one and he never linked the fire. A lord of cinder can die to something else and still be a lord fo cinder without ever linking the fire.
Lothric is a true Lord of Cinder. Yes, he very much is. He drops cinders of a lord and has a throne. He is 100% a true lord of cinder. You dont have to die in the flame to be a lord of cinder.
>>335988389
He has a throne and cinders of a lord. You need his ahses to get to the kiln. He is 100% a lord of cinder.
>>335988480
The dark soul is a black fire that was discovered by the primeval man at the same time Gwyn, Nito, and the witch of Izalith found theirs. He kept it secret and divided it among his kin, and created the human race. The dark soul is what makes humans human. Without it, they return to their pre-flame state as mindless hollows. The first flame feeds on the dark soul, and draws it out of humans when they die, through the darksign, causing them to hollow and enter a state of undeath.
Why do people assume that gwyn was weaker than his peak strength when you fight him?
Hollowing doesn't actually weaken the player character in Dark Souls, so why would hollowing weaken gwyn? His power should remain the same.
>>335988672
>and became a lord through might
Tell me what you think that means. You think he was given a little badge, a little card to put in his wallet, and they put his photo up on the Lord of Cinder wall? What do you actually think a Lord of Cinder is? Do you really think it's a meaningless title? Lords of Cinder are people who linked the flame. That's a fact, that's what they are. You can't be an actual Lord of Cinder without linking the First Flame. Lothric was a fucking pussy and chickened out, so he's not really a lord. I mean, fuck, they explain this several times. Emma says to you "fucking tell him to link the flame, that fucking faggot chickened out last time, tell him he has to do it and become a Lord of Cinder".
And also tell me why you think Aldrich wasn't already a god eater before he linked the flame.
>>335988817
Because all his power was burned off reigniting the flame.
When was Lothric destined to be the Lord of Cinder when he's younger than Lorian? Doesn't the first born son get that duty?
>>335988417
>Kalameet is at the very least ALIVE
nigga hes crying like a bitch because gough put an arrow through him
>>335988654
nah, manus is a joke. you can block his combos with a medium shield and the talisman renders his dark magic useless. kalameet is much stronger than manus
>>335987935
thats not the dark ending. the one where thehallows praise youis.
>>335988340
>>335988389
see >>335988175
Lothric are Lords of Cinder. Heres the cinders item description too:
Cinders of a lord left by the Abyss Watchers/Aldrich, Devourer of Gods/Yhorm the Giant/Prince Lothric
If the lords will not return to their thrones themselves, let them return as cinders.
The Watchers of the Abyss swore upon their shared wolf's blood, which also served as their mandate as lords.
Aldrich became a lord by devouring men, but was disillusioned with his throne, and so took to devouring gods instead.
Lonely Yhorm became a Lord of Cinder to put the Profaned Flame to rest, knowing full well that those who spoke of him as lord were quite insincere.
The Lothric bloodline was obsessed with creating a worthy heir, and when this proved impossible, resorted to unspeakable means. Suffice it to say, the path to linking the fire is a cursed one indeed
It doesnt even say they linked the fucking flame, they just needed to be a Lord of SOMETHING.
>Aldrich was considered a Lord for eating people and Gods
>Profaned Capital population decided Yhorm as their Lord (read his stuff)
>Abyss Watchers considered Lord of the Abyss
>Lothric Princes of Lothric.
>>335988906
I'm not sure about it being the firstborn's duty. Everything about Lothric says he was chosen and raised from birth to link the flame.
>>335988795
Please, just listne to me, anon.
Please explain what you think "Lord of Cinder" means. Please explain why you think you can just apply to be one with the Department of First Flame Affairs.
Please explain to me why you think some Lords had to link the flame and some didn't. You think Lord of Cinder has no meaning?
Lord of Cinder = One who linked the First Flame.
You utter retard.
>>335988253
amm 4/5 link to the fire
Abyss watcher = smouldering phase and fire related
Yhorm = smouldering phase and fire related
Aldrich = smouldering phase and fire related
Ludleth = he is smouldering and dream with link to the fire
>>335988689
>Lothric isn't an official Lord of Cinder
Yet he and Lorian go ember mode while you need his CINDERS OF A LORD
>>335988082
consider how you enter Archdragon peak. Consider you need an Ashen Mist Heart given by a dragon (debatable) to enter dreams to get and essential item. My belief is when dragons meditate they create a whole world inside their mind where they can overcome challenges and entertain themselves. They are the literal godhead of their own fantasy universes. Alot of people say Arch Dragon couldn't have been a dream because you leave with its items and Nameless Kings soul but IN DS2 you clearly go into a dream and take that item you need to open the throne of want. Maybe dragons have the ability to imagine and object or idea and drag it into reality. Maybe some dragon thought up the idea of the First Flame and dragged it into reality and thats where Dark souls 1 starts. And fuck of vatti
>>335988915
all the arrow did was hurt his wing, and even gough said that the wound was only temporary.
kalameet is a lot stronger than you're giving him credit for.
>>335988817
because hes a mindless hollow and mindless hollows cant think. he cant use any of his lighting powers or anything. hes had his soul split a shit ton
>>335988175
>seems like it's just given to people that are worthy.
That's called an Heir of Fire. We kill plenty.
>But the Twins refused to link it.
Yeah, the second time around. So did Aldrich, and the Abyss Watchers and Yhorm didn't make a choice since they went mad. Ludleth is a lord of cinder and has PTSD nightmares about the time he spent burning up. Linking the fire hurts like a bitch so the princes fucked off upon resurrection. The fact that these people don't want to link the fire >>AGAIN<< is literally why the game happens.
>>335988175
>Which means no, you do NOT need to link the flame to become a LoC.
Holy fuck, anon. Holy fucking fuck.
You juust fucking pointed out that he was chosen but REJECTED it. That he turned around and did not become a Lord of Cinder.
Holy fucking shit, how fucking stupid are you?
Lothric was groomed from birth to rekindle the flame, and was pre-emptively called a Lord of Cinder in the hope he would. But he rejected this destiny and refused to become a Lord of Cinder.
Jesus, did you not play the game?
>>335988689
>Again, why would you think Aldrich didn't link the flame?
Lothric didnt, so Aldritch can too. Aldritch wants the Deep not Fire. Find me one thing that confirms that Aldritch linked the fire. ONE line of dialogue or something from an item description that says Aldritch linked the flame.
You cant because he didnt. All the other Lord of Cinder that linked the flame have had various things confirm it.
>Does a committe come to Aldrich's house, assess him and decide that he's allowed to call himself a Lord of Cinder?
No one really knows what a Lord of Cinder is. My best guess is the Soul of Cinder chooses those with powerful souls.
>Why doesn't he have to link the flame like everyone else?
LOTHRIC
O
T
H
R
I
C
>Yhorm had to burn himself in the flame, why does Aldrich get to skip that part?
Lothric
>And we've established 27 times that Lothric isn't an official Lord of Cinder.
Cinders of a Lord + Throne in Firelink = Lord of Cinder
This is really very simple my low iq friend
>>335989060
The princes never linked the fire. That's why the other lords were awakened. If Lothric won't link it you need to gather the lords, including Lothric, and do it yourself.
>>335989001
yes, kalameet IS strong, but hes not the strongest. sinh can fly and everything and is very much alive since yhroms spear just unleashed his poison. ancient wyvern may be a gimmick fight, but fighting him 1v1 is a bitch. ancient "dragon" is pretty self explanatory from how garbage bullshit he is
>>335988915
Your using gameplay difficulty to determine actual canon strength. You're doing it wrong.
aldritch is smough
prove me wrong
If Lothric isnt a lord of Cinder why the fuck do you need him along with the other lords?
>>335988997
>IN DS2 you clearly go into a dream and take that item you need to open the throne of want
Its kinda implied that you actually go back in time through the giant's memories. The Last Giant's soul says
>The lord of the Giants, who had brought wrack and ruin to the entire kingdom, was said to have been felled by an unknown warrior.
>>335988389
>>335988959
see >>335988946 and >>335988175
They are all Lords of Cinder. They were considered Lords of Cinder before they even linked the flame (cause theyll give thornes to dead people right?)
They are Lords of Cinder because they were chosen to be Lords of Cinder. Thats all there is to it. Lothric, did NOT do it, yet gives the ITEM "Cinders of a Lord"
what's the description on that?
If the lords will not return to their thrones themselves, let them return as cinders
The thrones are for Lords of Cinder.deal with it
My question is why Prince Lothric was "chosen" to be the next Lord of Cinder? Who made that choice? The First Flame itself? Is it just because he's royalty? Surely there's someone else alive with more potential to provide the flame with fuel than a sickly kid.
>dlc set in the deserts of carthus
>huge area set in a canyon
>hidden desert tombs, with a focus on traps
>creatures from the abyss from when wolnir fucked with it
Would you buy it?
>>335988946
>Ludleth is the only Lord of Cinder who linked the fire
Fucking sure, that's why they all have thrones. I'm not sure how people think this makes sense.
>>335989196
id say gameplay is pretty damn canon, since it shows what they are actually fucking capable of
>>335989220
he is the lord of cinder, but he doesn't want to do the job so you have to kill him
>>335988959
Look dumbass, you can make up all the head canon you want but Lothric is a Lord of Cinder. No amount of "b-but he really wasnt actually a true one guise!!!" is going to change that.
He drops cinders of a lord and has a throne like every other lord of cinder. You need his ashes (may I also remind you that you need the ashes of every other lord of cinder too) so you can get to the first flame.
This is VERY SIMPLE.
>>335989092
>LOTHRIC
>O
>T
>H
>R
>I
>C
Isn't a Lord of Cinder. He chickened out. He's a Lord in name only.
Yhorm, Abyss Watchers, Ludleth and Aldrich all linked the fire.
OK, anon, I know you're stupid, but just explain to me this.
1. If Aldrich never linked the fire then why was he resurrected?
2. If Aldrich never linked the fire then why does he have the power of fire?
3. If Aldrich never linked the fire then why was he called a Lord of Cinder? Surely he'd be called a "Trainee Lord of Cinder" if he hadn't yet linked the fire.
Answer me these questions three.
>>335984619
Aren't these people the snake people in the dragon place?
I always thought these guys were on pilgrimage to the dragon place, the stones on their backs a testament to their piousness towards dragon-kin and eventually became enlightened or whatever should they make it to the dragon place, thus able to shed their weight and assume their snake form
>>335988980
Lothric just pops an ember like you do. His clothes only get that same mild flame aura. The other Lords go full on Human Torch and start flinging fire everywhere.
>>335989317
the game literally fucking says multiple time he was destined TO BE a Lord of Cinder
the key phrase being "TO BE"
>>335989317
How is this headcanon?
His item descriptions, the most concrete source of canon there is, state explicitly that he never linked the fire.
I don't understand how your theory can be more canon than the in-game item lore.
>>335989280
Probably the King or Queen.
>Surely there's someone else alive with more potential to provide the flame with fuel than a sickly kid.
And he wasn't supposed to have turned out that way, literally everyone had high expectations for the younger prince(to the point of making swords for him before he could even use it) after the elder one achieved amazing feats.
what the fuck is up with all the winged shit.
did lothric and lorian have wings? if not. why is their room covered in feathers?
the winged knights obviously wanted to go break gurtrude out, and killed off most of Lothric's knights before discovering she's dead.
if lothric and the angel worshippers were at odds, which it looks like they were, there's progressively tougher lothric soldiers and then knights with holy weapons on the way to the princes room, and the trio of winged knights on the tower Gurtrude was in directly opposite.
>>335989060
the thing is, if all the lords linked it they wouldnt need the player. all the other lords that did link it need to do it again cause all 5 didn't do it.
if they did, the fire wouldnt be fading. thats why you gather them all up.
>>335989296
i didnt say that, i said to qualify as a lord on cinder you need to be a lord of something. thats what all the other were, their cinder items made sure to point that out.
>>335989330
But Lothric is literally a lord of cinder
>>335989406
That's not canon.
He drops Cinders of a Lord and has a throne. That is he canon. Being a Lord of Cinder has 0% relation to the First Flame. Being a lord of cinder is in no way related to linking the fire. It's a title given to powerful people, and has nothing to do with fire linking.
>>335989330
>>335989406
>>335989429
Linking the fire =/= Lord of Cinder
>He's a Lord in name only.
>Has a Throne, just like every single other Lord fo Cinder
>Drops Cinders of a Lord, just like every other Lord of Cinder
>His ashes need to be placed on his throne, just like every other Lord of Cinder, to get to the Kiln of the First Flame
>He is called a Lord of Cinder by multiple characters
>He is literally a Lord of Cinder
Try to keep up, lads
How did other people come to challenge Lothric when all the enemies/bosses are still alive on your way to him???
>The two princes rejected their duty to become Lords of Cinder, and settled down far, far away to watch the fire fade from a distance. A curse makes their souls nearly inseparable.
>The two princes rejected their duty to become Lords of Cinder
>The two princes rejected their duty to become Lords of Cinder
>The two princes rejected their duty to become Lords of Cinder
>>335989246
They have those thrones because THEY ALREADY LINKED THE FLAME
Ludleth spells it out for you. It's why a nobody like him gets a throne at all.
>>335989139
I'd be willing to accept this if you can provide proof that Lothric is from this exact cycle. The fact that he has a throne makes this too questionable.
>>335989502
>>335989532
Can you stop avoiding the questions?
1. If Aldrich never linked the fire then why was he resurrected?
2. If Aldrich never linked the fire then why does he have the power of fire?
Please answer, or I'll be forced to assume that you know I'm right and are avoiding these questions because they prove your headcanon wrong.
>lothric literally just says no to linking fire and becomes a neet
>people are confused by this
>>335989473
if i'm not mistaken I believe Lothric did in fact have wings
>>335988689
hawkwood tells you he became a lord of cinder through power alone, alluding to eating gods and absorbing big time soul power
>>335989530
this.
hence why all the lords of cinder are simply lords of something
>>335989280
Basically because he's royalty. His family had been trying to make the perfect Lord of Cinder, which I think implies some inbreeding which would explain why he came out sickly.
I would even go so far as to say his pedigree is the only thing that qualifies him, he's not powerful or heroic so he's just got those LoC genetics.
>>335989557
>if you can provide proof that Lothric is from this exact cycle
Lothric is the prince of the current royalty, and his father and wet nurse are even still alive.
Lothric is who was supposed to be this age's Lord of Cinder, but he pussied out.
>>335988915
>some bastards tore out his eye and put it in a ring
>>335989304
It shows us a bunch of exploitable patterns to swing a sword at. It is not indicative of their lore strength.
>>335989557
Well then why doesnt a nobody like the chosen undead get a throne and become a lord of cinder?
Why do he, Solaire etc. all get stuck in the soul of cinder while the fucking Abyss Watchers become lords and resurrect?
>>335989551
>Cinders of a Lord
>dropped by Lothric
Explain you fag
>>335989530
so The Rotten is Nito right?
>>335989551
>>335989603
This. Holy shit. The game spells this out for you so many times. How can so many people be so wrong, and so furious when they get proven to be?
>"Tell him what he must be... a Lord..."
>The two princes rejected their duty to become Lords of Cinder, and settled down far, far away to watch the fire fade from a distance
Even his throne says KING Lothric because people were getting way fucking ahead of themselves.
>>335989092
> Find me one thing that confirms that Aldritch linked the fire. ONE line of dialogue or something from an item description that says Aldritch linked the flame.
not same anon but tell me why he resurrect from the dead when the bell tolls (DS3 intro)
also he have "ember mode" as Yhrom, abyss even Ludlethand don't try a poor excuse as "he eat gwendoline"
>Aldrich died linking the flame and was resurrected to re-link it by the bell
>he catches fire in his boss fight like the other lords who linked the flame
>somehow people think he never linked the flame
I can't fathom this.
Lothric never linked the flame, which is evident in his lore and the fact he never turns ablaze in his boss fight. He's only a Lord of Cinder because everyone was hoping he would be.
>>335989645
>Lorian killed demon's, including the Demon Prince
>Old demon king is a boss
Y'know, this I'm starting to like this theory
>>335989597
You dont have to link the fire to be a Lord of Cinder. You can die to anything and still be revived once the bell tolls. Aldritch was a Lord of Cinder because of might.
Aldritch became a Lord of Cinder because his soul was so powerful.
He doesnt have "the power of fire" his ass is weak to fire
Very simple and I already explained all of this.
>>335989295
>NPC that trades in spices
>Giant sand worms
yeah I would
>>335989746
Aldrich doesn't have 'ember mode'.
Aldrich not only ate Gwyndolin and Priscilla, but he also ate Nito and the Witch of Izalith. That is why he becomes fiery, because he devoured the Witch.
>>335989746
He was a lord of Cinder. He didnt link the fire but his soul was strong enough to be revived and given the status of Lord of Cinder.
>>335989645
I just watched the opening cut scene and remembered that Lothric isn't mentioned during the Lord roll call. Neither is Ludleth, but he's not a boss, so fuck him. This lends more credence to the argument. I now agree with you. I still find it kind of dumb that he has a throne.
>>335986769
>DaS2 is bad
As someone who started Das2 with SotFS, game patched, dx11, improved and including all the DLC's, I can say that it's one of my favourite games ever. I enjoyed more than Das1 in many ways (being objectively inferior still) and currently 3 (although there are still lots of patches and regulations to come), and I know Das1 is a better videogame, but saying that right now, Das2 is a bad game is just not true. Well, opinions I guess.
Why is there a mosque in the Nameless King area?
>>335989857
>Go full Dune
my nigga
>The prince, destined to be a Lord of Cinder, was cherished by the royal family, despite being born into illness, a frail and shriveled child.
>to be
>to be
>to be
>>335989871
>Aldrich not only ate Gwyndolin and Priscilla, but he also ate Nito and the Witch of Izalith. That is why he becomes fiery, because he devoured the Witch.
>Aldritch ate Priscilla, Nito, and the witch of Izalith
You need to stop
>>335989597
Aldrich linked the fire, but Lothric is literally proof that you dont HAVE to link the fire to be a lord of cinder
You can still just tell everyone to fuck off. You'll still be a lord who has the cinders of a lord and is required for entering the first kiln and facing the soul of cinder
>>335989838
>Aldritch was a Lord of Cinder because of might.
Please explain what you think this means.
To me that means he didn't become a Lord of Cinder for a philanthropic purpose like Yhorm or the Abyss Watchers. But you, for some reason, think that means he was so powerful that he was granted an honorary place in the ranks of the linkers of the fire.
That makes no sense at all. If you can just become a lord of cinder without even knowing the First Flame exists then "Lord of Cinder" means literally nothing.
>>335989703
He's supposed to be a lord, so you go cut off his head and bring it to his throne
>>335983128
If you want Dark Souls Lore then just pull up VaatiVidya on youtube
>>335989956
>cinders of a lord
>throne of the Lords of Cinder with his name on it
Who the fuck killed emma?
she gets stabbed by a plot knife so dancer can spawn
>>335988696
>What are the primordial serpents?
The games don't really give a whole lot of information about the serpents. All we really know is that they live in the abyss and may be imperfect dragons.
>What do they gain from helping the Chosen Undead?
Both are manipulating the CU. Kaathe wants to bring the about the Age of Dark and Frampt want to continute the Age of Fire.
>>335989731
This. Lothric's throne was built *in anticipation* of him becoming a Lord of Cinder. And since he's in the middle, they apparently assumed he'd be the strongest one yet. Or were just trying to appeal to his ego.
>>335983639
What's actually wrong with Dark Souls 2? Or is it a case of "too different from the norm" leaving a bad taste in people's mouths?
Guys, fucking shut up you retards.
Lothric isn't a true lord because he didn't link the fire. He has a throne because he was chosen to link the fire, and so they prepared him a place to link it. The first flame is so fleeting now that they have to groom Lords, they can't just leave it to chance.
But then Lothric fucked it all up by turning his back. And so they had to start waking up the real lords to use their souls in a last ditch attempt to rekindle the flame.
Lothric is called a lord, but he rejected his duty and so isn't really one.
>>335990036
Dancer killed her. Lothric and Irithyll are at war, which is why you see other outrider knights around Lothric. If you kill Emma yourself, Dancer pops down because she was getting ready to assassinate her and you did it first.
>>335990021
yeah the same throne that calls him King Lothric
If you fight all the previous people who linked the first flame, then what's the point of the Soul of Cinder? It's the same exact thing. Why did several beings retain their bodies, personality, etc. and not become apart of the Soul of Cinder?
>>335990094
Dark Souls should have never had a sequel but Namco wanted one.
That's what's wrong with Dark Souls 2.
>>335990094
Game controls poorly.
Game is really ugly.
Game has bad level design and enemy design.
Game has very few good bosses.
Game has messy, fanservice riddle story.
Game is bad.
>>335989871
lets play the same game
Find me one thing that confirms that Aldritch eat Nito and Witch of Izalith ONE line of dialogue or something from an item description that says Aldritch eat nito or the witches.
>>335989909
you can watch the intro, the bell toll and Aldrich is the first one
>>335990173
>>335990178
So no actual concrete reasons for it being bad?
>>335989640
yes you just need power to be a lord of cinder
>>335989975
thats quite literally the case. go read the cinders item descriptions. theyre all just lords of something. much like chosen undead, it's much more meaningless than people pretend.
"Knowest thou of our purpose? Five thrones will take five Lords, as kindling for the linking of the Fire. The fast fading Flame must be linked to preserve this world. A re-enactment of the first linking of the fire. So it is, I became a Lord of Cinder. I may be but small, but I will die a colossus."
You just need to be a Lord.
Like, you need a lords soul.
like i dont know, Nito? Witch? Seath? 4 Kings? Gwyns?
maybe all five?
you simply need lords souls to link the flame, and all of the cinders were once lords of something, evident by their cinders desc
>>335990132
That actually confused me at first. I assumed that the prince's father had linked the fire before and he had inherited his lord of cinder status, but the king didn't resurrect for some reason. Then I found King Oceiros as a crazy old dragon man, and that theory went out the window.
>>335989975
Look pal I didnt make the fucking game. The lore is retarded at best and just straight up nonsense at worst.
Clearly, Lords of Cinder dont actually have to do anything to be a Lord of Cinder. Even bedridden cripples that want the fire to die can be a Lord of Cinder.
Aldritch is clearly an evil being (maybe even thoughtless too) that quite literally "eats gods". He wants The Age of the Deep which is quite similiar to the Dark. Why would he link the flame? It makes zero sense.
Aldritch was so powerful he was granted the status Lord of Cinder because he was one of the five most powerful beings the first flame could call upon. No other reason.
>>335990172
You dont fight all of them, just the coolest ones
So hollows are just mindless emaciated zombie like creatures, right? And all of the people born from the first flame started out as hollows... right?
So how did Gwyn and friendsâ„¢ decide to look for the lord souls if they were just mindless hollows?
>>335990036
The dancer. Sully wanted to feed Lothric to Aldrich since he has a fetish for crossdressing boys, so sent the dancer out to grab him. You kill Sully and Aldrich while the dancer is away, but you're too late to save Emma
Were the locations in Souls games once great cities populated by normal human beans or has the world always been a dilapidated shithole crawling with undead?
Aldrich definitely linked the fire. If you think he didn't you're actually a retard.
The real debate is WHY did Aldrich link the fire? He's associated with the Dark, so why didn't he become a Dark Lord instead?
Is he just 100% impartial? He likes the Dark, but decided he'd be more powerful as a Lord of Cinder than a Dark Lord? Aldrich does seem like he gives no fucks and just wants to eat gods.
This debate is fucking retarded
Lords of Cinders are supposed to link the flame. They always have, but Lothric just found a loophole in deciding that he'd rather just see it die. Yet he's still a lord in every other mechanic
He straight up fucking drops cinders of a lord and you can't link the flame withoit him because he's a lord of cinder just like the other 4, just the first one to decide not to link the fire himself
Now shut the fuck up
>>335990245
You can scream "opinions" all you want, but we gave you reasons.
The game is bad in so many respects, even if you're too much of a blind fanboy to see them.
>>335989701
Maybe because the Flame only ressurected the latest Lords as separate entities?
>>335990245
There's a lot of concrete reasons it's bad, but it never stood a chance to begin with.
>>335990172
I think the implication of it as that they're just various CU's from DaS1
Miyazaki clearly wanted people to feel like they're fighting their character from DaS1 so he threw in some sketchy lore
>>335990172
All those people that went on to become Lords of Cinder were amazing people before that, they all had their great souls, kingdoms and everything. That's why the Flame chooses to revive them, they're the best of the best.
The Chosen Undead and every undead that came after served as a vessel to bring those souls together and use it as fuel for the Flame.
>>335990308
They seem to have been. In New Londo you can see all the bodies that drowned when they flooded the place.
>>335990291
They weren't born from the flame. They existed before it, hence their inability to die when returned to that state.
I assume they just picked up the lord souls because they were shiny and new, and literally nothing else had happened ever.
>>335990308
They were all great cities before the undead curse happened and it became a zombie apocalypse scenario.
>>335990308
The former. After the flame is rekindled the world can slowly start going back to normal and after like a thousand years when the flame starts to die again everything goes to shit. But there's probably like a solid 200 years of good times during every cycle.
>you can see the dancer and vordt leaving irithyll valley as ghosts
huh
>>335984431
Anyone gonna answer him? I feel the same way, it didn't feel like conclusion, just more filler.
I'm dissapointed.
>>335990308
during the age of fire the world is normal (though there are still wars and power struggles)
>>335990326
Hawkwood says he was made to do it, but I have no idea how anybody could have forced him to if he didn't want to. Maybe he thought being on fire all the time would make him more powerful, or he was at least hoping the people he ate would be cooked.
>>335990291
Oh wait so Gwyn and all them coexisted with the dragons? Why the hell did they decide to fight the dragons when they had been living in peace together for thousands/millions of years?
>>335989473
Gurtrude?
>>335990172
It's most likely that the first flame or whatever can only resurrect the most recent lords. I mean, if it's this desperate, why not just resurrect Gywn or Chosen Undead and turn their reanimated bodies to cinders to power the flame?
>>335990326
Aldrich only became obsessed with darkness, or the Deep, after linking the fire.
>>335989473
Given that Darklurker had an angelic appearance, I assume that the angels in Lothric have something to do with the abyss and the serpent worship. Though I can't help but feel that Miyazaki wanted to reference this guy from Berserk.
>>335985026
Ashen One could very well be the strongest because he not only absorbs the Souls of 4 Lords of Cinder but he even inherits their fire towards the end.
He also kills and gains the soul of the Soul of Cinder which is who knows how many Lords of Cinder all in one.
Andre is still around because he never stopped smithing for people and there fore never went hollow. Thoughts?
Casual reminder that Gwynevere married King Oceiros and became Queen of Lothric.
Divine Blessing description from Dark Souls and Dark Souls III are identical, except with Princess of Sunlight replaced with Queen of Lothric; Sun Princess Ring says she left Anor Londo among other gods and bore several Heavenly Children.
Divine Blessing description also explains that she left after giving birth to Ocelotte, which is why the queen is no longer present.
It was probably an arranged royal marriage between the old royalty of Anor Londo and Lothric.
Is the flame "sentient"? Does it have a mind of its own? Where did the flame come from?
>>335985735
This is all headcanon; you've been warned.
>The throne functions similarly to a kiln, it burns your offered soul in order to create something else. With the kiln of the first flame, its entire purpose was to feed the first flame. Throne of Want, however, takes those souls and allows you to use their power to shape the world (or yourself) in a different way. BotC simply decided to say "fuck it, I'm out of this endless cycles bullshit"
>See above (this is all still headcanon mind)
>Still works with above theory
>Seems like writing differences, as 2 wanted to have the whole "death and rebirth" theme, but backlash made it so they returned iconic parts of 1. That said, Drangleic had... giant invasions I guess? It's also worth noting that the Lords were basically revered as gods, so their city might have been spared destruction as holy ground, a la the Old City of Jerusalem. Bear in mind the only INTACT part of Anor Londo is the cathedral, everything else has very clearly changed around it.
>Lothric is the kingdom after Lordran. Drangleic is mentioned somewhere as a continent to the north, and further north are the "unknowable creatures" (giants). If I remember correctly, however, this was on the Varangian set, which was not actually included in the game.
>Different continents.
>The fire reawakened him.
>>335990504
canon ending is the firekeeper takes the ember and hides it or destroys it or some shit to permanently end the cycle.
but she also says she sees other embers in the darkness, so i guess once she lets this eternal ember die out, new embers will ignite eventually and the world will be whole again.
instead of everything riding on one single ember that keeps dying every 30 seconds
>>335990550
angel babe
>>335990543
Not really living in peace since the Dragons ruled everything and anything that threatened the status quo was destroyed.
And there's the whole "becoming gods" thing, Gwyn saw a chance to overthrow the Dragons and create a new Age ruled by him so he took that opportunity
>>335988431
Oh. I never killed her so I never read her ashes description. That's fucking neat.
She's meant to be a Queen, but has no King.
>>335990543
The dragons ruled the world because they were the most powerful things. The lord souls gave Gwyn, the Witch, and Nito the gift of desire and they wanted to rule instead.
>>335986741
bloodborne
>>335990543
Gwyn lived underground and the dragons reigned over the surface and the Archtrees.The Deep is a reference to the caves from which humans/lords came from, located even below the Archtrees
>>335986912
Lothric was raised to be a lord of cinder, he has the capacity to be one, if he lit himself on fire, he'd be one.
For all intents and purposes, he is one.
>>335990272
Why would he link the flame? It makes zero sense.
He was forced (https://youtu.be/0tQVOMhmCBE?t=2m28s) ...you can't think the possibility of Pontiff or the "Deep Religion" trying to kill Aldritch as Martyr?
>>335990272
OK, OK anon, I'll just ask one really simple question.
First let's lay down a fact. All the Lords of Cinder, Gwyn included, gained aspects of the Fire after linking it. Gwyn was a lord of Sunlight before, associated with lightning. But after linking the fire he becomes associated with fire, his sword catching light, his lightning nowhere to be seen. You agree there, yes?
Abyss Watchers weren't really associated with anything before. They were just warriors linked by their blood oath. But after linking the fire they suddenly became associated with the flame, same as Gwyn they get a flaming sword and all that jazz.
Yhorm was a giant with a regular old machete, but after linking the flame he gained the characteristic cinders of the lords. Not just in his boss fight, but we see this in the opening as well, when he roars and flares up in embers.
Even Ludleth seems to be ashy.
Do we agree there? This all makes sense to you?
Now we get to the interesting bit. Aldrich, who is associated only with the dark, has powers of fire. Powers remarkably similar to the other lords who linked the flame.
Now let's go further and point out that Lothric has NO association with fire at all. None of his abilities use fire at all. Lorian's sword is flaming, but that's die to being marked by a demon he slayed. Lothric himself has no fire anywhere at all.
This is because he didn't link the flame.
Do we agree?
So if Lothric is not fiery, but Aldrich is, Aldrich must have linked the flame.
>>335989943
The building that archdragon peak shit is based on was originally christian until those damn turks put minarets around it
>Mozgus women with torturer dudes
>angel dudes
>darksign sun
Miyazaki sure fucking loves his Millennium Falcon arc.
>>335990638
He's a bigger fellow, probably about as tall as Gwyn so I'd wager he's a god racially speaking, so maybe he's just immortal. Or you could be right. Or it could just be fanservice, who the fuck knows.
>>335988480
It's the same thing
>>335990886
Since he knew the giant blacksmith personally, Andre is probably a god, or whatever people lived in Anor Londo.
What are women doing in the DS series? It sounds like a stupid question, but I'm really curious.
Are they having children? Are they there just to please whatever creature is enslaving them?
It seems like a really shitty world to live in, and doubly so as a woman.
>>335990643
>the joining of two great nations, lothric and irythyll
>first child powerful warrior
>everythings good
>second child weak ass faggot who denies his duty
>third child invisible dragon baby
>king becomes obsessed with invisible dragon baby
>queen fucks off back to anor londo
>war... war never changes
>>335990778
Except he functions just like the other lords of cinder
>>335986271
I always took Andre being there as him being undead but never having gone hollow because he never lost hope or purpose as a blacksmith.
did you guys not watch the intro? the twins were the ones that didnt link the flame. the ones that got resurrected did. that means aldrich did, full stop.
but the twins didnt. it also says that in truth, they wont relink it. that means they know that the cycle is never ending and would rather see it die.
>but aldrich has ember!
feel free to look at yhorm in the intro
>>335990982
Aside from a few places there's normal kingdoms still left standing and people living their lives normally.
>>335990754
What exactly are the archtrees? Just the gray dead trees in the intro? Where did they come from?
To me, trees being there implies that there was something/someone around BEFORE the dragons took over everything and the world became grey and dead.
>imagine if From made a game that takes place millions of years before the "first flame" where we get to see the world in all its original glory
>we get to see how the dragons took over and how the world became so shitty
>since we know the dragons will win by the end of the game, it has a strange feeling of doom
>>335990982
People misunderstand the Dark Souls universe.
When the Age of Fire, or an Age of Dark is in full swing the world is peaceful. Age of Fire may suck a bit for humans, and Age of Dark may suck a bit for gods, but overall they're times of peace.
It's the END of the age that the world becomes shitty. The undead curse didn't exist until the fire started fading. The demons didn't exist until the Witch tried to create a new flame.
Regular people live in towns on the surface. Sometimes bad stuff happens, like the Abyss, but more or less they lead normal, peaceful lives. Nobody ventures near Izalith, normal people don't go down to Blight Town.
Humans lived in their nice undead town, gods lived in their nice Anor Londo.
The world of Dark Souls only becomes horrific when the fire begins to fade, that's when the chaos erupts.
>>335990970
Anor londo is addressed as the city of the gods
so you can either take that title as indicative of gods ruling it or gods populating it
>>335991012
kekd hard
>>335990982
Being blinded to be made into priestesses and firekeepers, or being badasses like Anri and Sirris.
Given the half-assed endings we got in the DaS3. What ending would you like for them to add in the DLC that would bring closure to the souls series.
>>335990631
no shit, first thought when I saw this was mozgus? hope I get to fight him.
then I fought three of him
>>335990794
Being sparky isnt enough to make that connection.
Maybe he did, we just dont have proof and it makes no sense for a evil deep worshiping creature like Aldritch to link the flame.
Unless I see something confirming it, I wont think otherwise. Sorry m8 but it just doesnt make sense.
>>335984203
bump on the question
who are the pilgrims and where are they pilgraming to?
i know they are followers of the ds1 serpents who believe in the lord of hollow but thats all.
>>335990982
>>335991154
I wonder if any of the Lords of Cinder/nasty mofos like Aldrich were into raping women Berserk style. Then again, did any of those guys even care about sex?
Hell, Gwyn probably just "willed" his children into existence.
>>335988672
>he's a lord!!
"the mantle of lord interests me none"
>>335991175
So an entire game of hobbling around as a weaponless hollow?
What fun.
I guess you could make a survival game about fleeing from dragons, but it wouldn't really fit into Souls.
Who was that pump-a-rum crow?
>>335991256
id say the endings were pretty solid
>link the flame, starting all this shit over again
>let the fire keeper eat it, stopping it all
>let it die, while making yourself king of the hollows
Where is Ocelotte?
>>335991296
They're from Londor, and they're journeying to Lothric to get close enough to the flame to die. Current theory is that they then sprout into the pilgrim butterflies floating around Lothric Castle.
what the fuck happened to them?
>>335985735
>WTF was going on in Dark souls 2? Was the throne of want actually a Kilin?
The Throne of Want was a giant kiln, yes. It was built by the united kingdoms of Drangleic in order to stream line and better organize their own linking of their own flame. They had down it for generations and King Vendrick was supposed to sit upon it next.
>Why did the Emerald Herald make it out as if it was a wish machine?
If you control the linking of the flame you essentially get to be fucking king.
The process doesn't actually kill you like we once thought.
>Why did Nashandra want the throne if its used to re-link the fire? Isn't that bad for her?
I think Nashandra wanted to control the linking or the NOT linking of the fire. She quite possible was grooming Vendrick to put out the fire, but Vendrick locked himself in the catacombs and basically made her life difficult.
>Why does nothing make sense Geologically? Why is it implied dozens of kingdom have risen and fallen where Drangleic is and even heides tower is in ruins but anor londos castle is perectly intact?
Drangleic was originally made up of numerous provinces, small neighboring countries with distinct cultures and so forth- all of them going through their own ages of undead, ruin and so forth. Lots more carnage and less organization.
>Where are Lordran, Drangleic and Lotheric located relative to each other?
Drangleic is right across the sea from Lodran; Lodran is "The land of the Giants" as referred to by the people of Drangleic. Drangleic is a separate continent/landmass.
Lothric is a neighboring Kingdom slightly adjacent to Anor Londo- they reside just beside one another.
>Why is it that Astora, Izalith and Catarina are long forgotten in 2 but referenced everywhere in 3?
Drangleic is a different country, so they probably never get people from there/literally who?
>Why is Andre there?
What, in darksouls 3? He might be a god.
>>335991289
>Being sparky isnt enough to make that connection.
OK, so you're just baiting.
I've laid out the direct correlation between fire linking and being associated with cinders, and you're saying there is none.
OK. It's been fun, anon, but I think I have to stop feeding you. I thought you were stupid, but then you gave yourself away with that last one.
>>335991256
One that expands the Usurpation ending would be great.
Why the fuck does the pyromancy merchant have a pile of dead goats behind him? Where the fuck did he even get them?
>>335990982
during the eras in which we actually play it is implied that there is next to no sexual desire
>>335991327
More like Pump-a-Rump
>>335991327
I'd pump her rum with my pickle pee.
>>335991313
He doesnt want to be a lord
But he still is one, which is why you need to kill him and take his cinders of a lord to the throne
>>335991175
Archtrees aren't trees. Not trees as you know them.
They're just part of the fundamental fabric of the primordial world.
>>335991404
Nothing special, just being angels
>>335991404
Manipulating the people of Lothric and possibly pretending to be angels.
>>335991404
They all fell asleep and no one has found them since.
>>335991438
Just looking at this screenshot you'd expect Cornyx to be the Yurt/Lautrec/Beggar of the game, but he's actually just a bro.
Pyromancers are always the best NPCs.
>>335991296
they learned that the fire fades and went north
thats it. kind of like how the undead jail is to the east.
>>335991404
seems like hes still hard at work. just look at whats happening. literally dark souls 1 all over again
>>335991370
we can hear him crying in the boss fight so hes probablywho the fuck knows. his mom and dad had him after the twins. the twins are clearly still somewhat young, so ocelotte could be a baby or could be young. he could still be in the garden
>>335991303
Aldrich slowly devoured people since he enjoyed the agony of his victims, I'd say that's pretty Berserk style.
>>335991453
Makes sense. Everyone is so grey and nasty or hollowed it.
They probably smell terrible, too.
>>335991479
Everyone calling you a lord doesn't make you one.
He could have been a lord, but he chose not to link the fire. People still call him a lord hoping that he'll change his mind, but he isn't truly one.
>Replay DS2
>Worse fucking intro ever
>PS1 textures
>PS1 animations
>PS1 enemy tracking
>PS1 animations
>Forgettable Npc's
>Boring as fuck PVE
So is everyone saying DS2 good, simply because after a bajillion expansions and patches the pvp eventually became decent?
>>335991496
Words cannot describe what is happening to my sides.
>>335991313
he means the responsibilities of a lord of cinder aka being kindling for linking the fire
but just because he wishes not to link it doesn't mean he doesn't have a soul powerful enough to do so
>>335991496
>>335991534
jesus fucking christ
you sneaky jew looking motherfuckers
>>335991567
There was surprisingly no actually bad NPCs in 3 except for Yuria
Everyone is pretty damn nice and gets to have a somewhat happy ending before dying, except for Anri
>>335991404
Kaathe is in Londor and created a whole new religion for hollows.
Fraampt probably gave up and sided with Kaathe after realizing that the Fire was getting weaker and weaker.
>>335991496
can someone expand on this for me please?
>>335991637
nah hes a lord. as established in dark souls 1, lords just have powerful souls. it may not interest him, but thats who he is.
So many NPC suffers cruel fate in the end as always.
Why From didn't prepare survived ending for siegward like Solaire.
headcanon flying through
>Gwyn's firstborn is Sen
>Gwyn builds him a fortress to watch over to test undead as being fit
>Sen comes into contact with the snake race, aka the imperfect dragons
>Sen becomes friends with the snakes, pissing off Gwyn
>Sen gets fed up with it, and flees to archdragon peak to try to find the snakes' ancestors and learn their power
>Gwyn is livid, and sends Ornstein the dragon slayer to go kill his traitorous son
>Sen destroys him, and keeps Ornstein's armor as a trophy
>finally, Sen would never be reminded of his birth name, so he takes up the mantle of "nameless king"
>>335991637
But he literally drops cinders of a lord
>>335991641
>if I shitpost hard enough I will ruin their silly lore thread!!!! xD
>>335991678
She got to kill Aldritch, which was her goal.
>Miyazaki wanted to give many characters good endings
>His team wants them all to die horribly
Fuck Miyazaki, just override them.
>>335991702
anon, frampt and kaathe both wanted the same ending. they both manipulated you cause no matter what you do in dark souls 1, they win.
>>335983128
Why does the Kiln of the First Flame look so fucking different? Why is it on a cliff... thing? What destroyed city is that below it? Undead Berg? All the past worlds that have come and gone through the ages?
So is the next game gonna take place during one of the countless Ages of Fire, instead of at the end of one?
No hollow gloomy deserted destroyed shit. Cities could actually be populated. Have to go to shops to buy weapons and shit. It's not like there's no monsters and demons and shit during an Age of Fire. Just no "linking the fire again" story. Literally any story could work when you have hundreds(thousands?) of years between each rekindling.
>>335984249
>implying Aldia and Vendrick weren't some of the best characters of the serie
>implying Aldia's research of a third solution isn't the only hope for the world and one of the most interesting plot points
DLC better give me some Aldia shenanigans
>>335991710
>as established in dark souls 1, lords just have powerful souls
The sheer opposite. The Great Lords in Dark Souls 1 are four specific individuals who were granted mighty souls by the First Flame. It's not a title, it's a class of deity.
Lord of Cinder actually means something, just like Great Lord actually meant something. It's not just a title anyone can hold, you have to link the fire to become one. Lothric was groomed to be one but failed in his duty.
>>335991736
And if you take Yoel's Ashes and call them Cinders of a Lord does that mean Yoel is a lord?
>>335991735
You have nothing about the annals and the first son losing them and getting stricken from history.
>>335991803
there isn't going to be a next game
>>335991534
Those foul breathed motherfuckers
>>335991678
I think they were aware it was becoming too expected.
>>335991837
This is one of the worst things about Dark Souls 2. It had some really interesting shit going on, but it was all stuck in that abortion of a game.
>>335991496
>mfw imagining Kaathe and Frampt wearing those clothes, preaching to a bunch of humans in Lothric whily trying to hold their laughter
>>335990326
Based Pontiff probably tricked him into linking the fire somehow
>>335991289
I'm not the same anon who question you but I agree with >>335991420
>Being sparky isnt enough to make that connection.
It's something ingame connected, isn't enough because of you word?
>Maybe he did, we just dont have proof and it makes no sense for a evil deep worshiping creature like Aldritch to link the flame.
>>335990780
> I wont think otherwise. Sorry m8 but it just doesnt make sense.
For you, and only for you, the problem here is you WANT people think like you and just try to make your hypothesis true.
>>335991534
I hate these Jew snakes so much.
>>335983554
No he isn't.
>>335991801
I don't know what's below it but the world has literally started burning away and the kiln is now brought to the surface.
Or at least that's one idea I heard.
>>335991797
Yeah but Frampt wanted to rule in the shadows while Kaathe was always more about "fuck that shit let's just take over".
>>335991801
>What destroyed city is that below it? Undead Berg?
That's what I assumed. It was right next to the flame when the CU linked it, and it seems like the flame can cause time and space to warp around itself. Which is what makes Lordran such a weird place.
>>335991801
the kiln is surrounded by ash. its been burning for a looong time.
>>335991854
no, all the lords of cinder were lords of something, having lots of power. go read the cinder descriptions. theyre just lords of places or consumed enough to be considered that.
while youre at it watch the intro. theyre all the lords of the general area.
Is this a statue of Suly? Why does he have ice cream in his hand?
>>335991854
Yoels ashes aren't required to get to the first kiln and link the fire you stupid faggot, now just accept you're wrong because Lothric is a lord of cinder
He's one who's tried to abandon it, but cant escape his fate
>>335990643
there was no old royalty left, there were just those weird ethereal people that eventually became slaves under the pontiff, gwyndolin, and yorshka.
the Lothric line was likely winged and rose to power fairly quickly. Ocerios was probably some handsome guy with wings that Gwynyvere married just to stay relevant. They had three kids, Gurtrude, Lorian, and Lothric. then Ocerios stuck his nose into seath's research and became part dragon, he knocked her up again and had Ocelotte, the 'child of dragons' because Gwyn's daughter sure as fuck isn't a dragon.
Ocelotte was probably powerful, but an abomination so Gwynyvere probably fucked off to go take care of maggot people.
Ocerios then became 'consumed' and went full dragon. he either kept the child and we kill it or the kid fucks off with Gwynyvere, maybe he's that large maggot she's taking care of.
>>335992014
they wanted YOU to think that.
that way no matter what happens they win. they put you in a situation where you think you need to choose a side, thus presenting the illusion of having a choice.
>>335991857
>losing the annals of history
That was a mistranslation. His name was lost IN the annals of history.
>>335992106
He didn't link the fire, so he's not a lord of cinder.
It's pretty simple. Gaping Dragon doesn't posses one of the original souls from the First Flame, so he's not a Great Lord. Similar principle.
Some things are black and white like that. If you don't meet the conditions to be a Lord of Cinder (linking the flame) then you aren't one, not matter how hard your family wants you to be.
>>335992125
Sauce on that? Or are you pulling it out if your ass?
>>335992118
>rosaria is gwynevere
you were doing so well anon...
>>335991857
I like to think that the losing the annals part was just the "official reason" they told everyone. Wouldn't want everybody to found out that Gywn's firstborn was fucking dragons.
>>335992290
The jp version of the game. This has been known for a long time.
>>335992224
So did Aldritch, Yhorm, and the Undead Legion all link the fire in the past?
>>335991710
>can someone expand on this for me please?
Basically:
>rumor is that a kingdom named Lothric is taking the duty of linking the fire very seriously
>Primordial Serpents fools the royalty of Lothric into believing them to be holy angels
>they create an entire new religion to control the kingdom, Kaathe learns that the nobility is obsessed with creating a perfect heir
>he convinces the young prince lothric to not link the fire, the entire kingdom goes to shit and the world gets fucked
>good keks are had and the "angels" go back to their homes
>>335984431
The ending is that the flame fades either way and darkness sets, but maybe one day a new fire, a new age will begin.
If you link the flame, you see how dimly it burns, you know that it is at the end of its life and you probably ensure one last cycle, but soon it will be gone for good and people won't be able to link it.
If you let it die you quite simply pull the plug and finally put an end to it.
If you take it for yourself, you may found comfort in it, and power, I guess you simply crave for it a la gollum with the ring. Still, the flame is now gone.
Finally, you may take it for yourself and become the powerful lord of hollow.
No matter what you chose, the age of fire ends.
So are the faggot princes the actual villains here in this game? They make it seem like it's Syullyvan and Aldritch and sure they are monsterous people, but the princes abandoned their duty to become Lords and fucked off and let the fire fade to the point where the world is falling apart and their kingdom fell into chaos and the forces from the Boreal Valley run rampent.
>>335985830
Archdragon Peak is very much real. You can see it from the both the High Wall and the area where you gain access to it. Did you just blindly follow fextralife wiki instructions and not look around you ingame or something?
>>335992072
I think is Archdeacon Royce and he likes strawberry flavor
>>335992224
>Beat Lothric
>It straight up says Lord of Cinder defeated
>He then drops cinders of a lord, which you use in conjunction with the other ones that are dropped exclusively by the lords of cinder
Stop acting like you know better than the game itself
>>335992392
dark souls does not have villains
>>335992483
>unbreakable patches
fuck that guy
>>335992373
Yes
>>335987348
The dragon gives you a soul of a giant
>>335991935
Which is why I hoped that at least Ds3 would aknowlede those good things and partially redeem it. Hoping in the DLC
![tumblr_o25lubbSXv1qzwtdlo1_1280[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Kq9Cu5z.jpg "tumblr o25lubbSXv1qzwtdlo1 1280[1]")
I see a surprising amount of confusion about the role, title and responsibilities of the "Lord of Cinder", so I'm just going to post what I know and you can take or leave it:
>The "Lord of Cinder" Process was developed and founded by Gwyndolin while he was rebuilding Anor Londo.
>It was a court of people who would act as representatives and delegates who would be held responsible for linking the fire in the event the time came to do so.
>You do not need to have linked the fire previously in order to be a "Lord of Cinder", but it certainly helps. The Title of "Lord of cinder" is purely meant to designate someone with a truly spectacular soul that can or could be used to link a fire successfully.
>In order to link the flame though you need several things: 4 grand souls and 1 host to basically act as a torch or lighter. The 1 host will survive this process, but the 4 grand souls survivability is questionable(?)
That's generally how it works give or take.
Out of our 5 lord of cinders only 2 of them have ever linked the fire before:
>Yhorm the Giant has linked the fire before, but the magnificence and splendor of his soul seems to have produced a humanity hungry flame or the profaned flame? Yhorm acquired these souls through conquest and his own soul is that of a giant- who possess inhuman determination.
>Ludleth of Courland has linked the fire, but this was LOOONG ago- he may actually be the oldest lord of cinder on the council. Ludleth of courland however may have been FORCED to link the fire against his will due to the splendid souls in his possession due to his trade of transposition. Ludleth talks in his sleep and may reference his experience originally linking the fire- speaking of being burned alive horribly.
>Ludleth may have just been a perfectly normal man victimized by convenience and circumstance.
The other 3 have never linked the fire.
Their ownership of the Title is purely based on their "potential".
>>335992392
There is no real "villain", there's only individual motivations. The nature of the DS universe and the inevitability of things going bad is the antagonist, and it's unbeatable. The princes aren't bad for not wanting to be lords of cinder. What if people told you from the moment you were born that it was your destiny to set yourself on fire and die for them so they could go on living their lives? The fire will die eventually. Linking it is just prolonging the inevitable.
i got a question
why is Laddersmith Gilligan is DS3 and how do you think he died?
this confused me since hes from ds2 and nothing i found mentions why he was in the profaned capital and what his motives where.
>>335992609
He fell off a ladder
>>335991496
How the fuck did they managed to get uglier
>>335992483
Pontiff is definitely a villain
>>335992609
in* were*
sorry typo its late and im tired
>>335992592
>The other 3 have never linked the fire.
If that were true, then one of them would be enough. It takes all five because they have so little power left to feed to the flame.
>>335990014
why not silvermont?
>>335992308
what's that dude doing with her soul in gwynevere's bedchamber?
>>335988460
>Dragons = stasis, nothing, and void
I can actually believe this, especially because of their natural immortality and stone scales.On that note Seath having no scales made it perfectly clear that he symbolizes none of that
>>335992392
Maybe but linking the fire it's not the solution
linking the fire is "good" or "bad" is the million-dollar question in Dark souls.
>>335992592
What's your reasoning for Gwyndolin creating that process? He doesn't really have a motive for doing that.
>>335992392
you could see it that way but is it really fair to raise someone from birth with the intention of letting them burn for eternity eventually? the flame will go out eventually, why not now.
Okay I believe you when you tell me that Drangleic is in another continent, maybe even at the other side of the world
but what explanation do you make out of the fucking intro in ds2?
where the fuck does the bearer come from?
why there's a fucking portal to another continent?
I know he was like:
>fuck it, I'm going into the hole of the forgotten land because I'm too fucking wasted with this hollowing, I dont even remember who or where I am anymore
was he a time traveler?
from the future? the past?
where the fuck he was even coming from?
So why do people turn into fucking dragon tentacle monster parasite-things? And why were the Wyverns in the Dragon Barracks infected by them?
>>335992609
I believe the lore with him goes like this:
>Laddersmith Gilligan probably managed to steal a bunch of yhorms gold and riches (all of the gold around his dead body indicates this) and built a ladder to possibly escape the area with his gold or enter for more but something happened that petrified him and dropped him off his ladder.
but who knows for sure.
>>335993026
>So why do people turn into fucking dragon tentacle monster parasite-things?
It's the Abyss taking form because the age of dark is coming.
How much time passes from DS1 to DS3? I know it's over 1,000 years, but just how much?
5,000 years? 10,000 years? More?
>>335993169
Nobody really knows. Enough for a bunch of linking of the fire and enough for entire civilizations to rise and fall.
>>335988997
Are you saying that the dragons are all just giving themselves comas and shit to create their own Elder Scrolls universes, but when the Lords show up they have to leave it and thus get wrecked by reality coming down on them hard?
>>335993169
it doesn't matter at all
we have no idea how long a year even is in DaS
>>335993169
However long was between Gwyn and the Chosen undead linking the fire, multiplied by five. Assuming the fire burns out at the same rate each time.
>>335992804
>The other 3 have never linked the fire.
>If that were true, then one of them would be enough. It takes all five because they have so little power left to feed to the flame.
I don't understand your reasoning behind this.
In Dark souls 1 NONE of the lord souls you linked had linked the fire before, do you not understand that the act of linking the fire isn't actually that important for you to be a qualified lord of cinder? It's a "good qualifier", but it doesn't actually have as much importance as you give it.
They gather the lords of cinder so they don't have to go fucking hunt them down. That was the idea anyway.
They use ALL the lords of cinder because the grander and more amazing the souls you use the longer the age of fire will be because it has more to burn.
What's difficult to understand about this?
Why do people assume Gwynevere fucked Oceiros? It's made pretty clear she fucked off. Only thing that returned was her daughter who got transformed into the dancer
Also who the fuck is and what happened to Oceiros? All I understood was "crazy dude went into the archives and lost it" what's his story?
How come Andre is back?
Ornstein was ALSO an illusion?
Why is everything so close?
What the fuck happened to the profaned capital?
>>335993095
And people say the age of dark is a good thing, jesus christ
>>335992592
the problem with your post is
> I'm just going to post what I know
Maybe you are wrong, don't talk like your thing is fact.
can you tell me from where come your data about the process was developed
>he 1 host will survive this process, but the 4 grand souls survivability is questionable(?)
who/where say that?
>The other 3 have never linked the fire.
I repeat, from where come this reasoning?
>>335992936
>What's your reasoning for Gwyndolin creating that process? He doesn't really have a motive for doing that.
Why wouldn't Gwyndolin want the age of fire to continue? It's the age of fucking Gods.
Gwyndolin is also incredibly fucking loyal to his father Gwyn and the other gods: Gwyn's fucking legacy was the first person to link the fire and successfully extend the age of the Gods for a few more generations.
Company Captain Yorshka even fucking states that the Blade of The Darkmoon was converted from it's original purpose to that of a covenant to protect chosen undead on their path/journey to link the fire.
Like, this isn't even my most controversial statements; this is all really explicit and obvious stuff.
What the hell is going on here?
What exactly is the abyss?
>>335989473
>>335990631
Perhaps it's supposed to symbolize the afterlife or the existence of an afterlife. It's not just that they have winged feathers it's that a lot of these enemies and npcs grew them at some point. Their wings/feathers falling out and piling up you could interpret as them failing to reach the afterlife because the fire is dying.
>>335988084
which is why it never got any :^)
>>335993324
The first person to link the fire was Gwyn, and when you fight him, he is called "Gwyn, Lord of Cinder", which he was never referred to as before that point. He's called that because cinder is all that's left of him, because the rest burnt up.
>cinder
> noun
>1. a partially or mostly burned piece of coal, wood, etc.
>2. cinders. any residue of combustion; ashes.
Cinder is what's left over after something burns.
>>335992327
Seems it wasn't just his son who had a dragon fetish.
Imagine being Gwyn, your son being such a disappointment for liking dragons that you wipe away any trace of his existance, and your daughter being such a whore for dragons that she had TWO dragon babies.
>>335993534
Makes sense. But I was under the impression Gwyndolin didn't care for that. Kinda brainfarted on the bit about his Covenant since I played DS1 only within the past year and didn't really deal with anything involving the Covenants since there was almost nobody online.
>>335991837
>>implying Aldia's research of a third solution isn't the only hope for the world and one of the most interesting plot points
I haven't got the third ending yet but it doesn't include Aldia's master plan? The one part of Dark Souls 2 that Miyazaki had a part in?
>>335993598
Darkness. The opposite of everything that is the first flame. Although, it came into being with the first flame.
>>335992984
Not OP but I may be able to answer some of those questions.
>where the fuck does the bearer come from?
Irrelevant. He was just another chucklefuck.
>why there's a fucking portal to another continent?
Magic. Not like DS universe lacks it.
>was he a time traveler? from the future? the past?
Irrelevant. Time is convuluted during the time you play DS. Literally everyone you meet can be from the past/present/future.
>where the fuck he was even coming from?
When you create your character you get the background.
TL;DR: MC has no history or background. Make one yourself, it's RP.
>>335993534
yeah yeah Gwyndolin is loyal but who say he did the process?
here its you ASSUMING that but where is the proof?
also Yorshka thinks Gwyndolin still alive, only have a few knights and humans can fly...
>>335990172
The Soul of Cinder isn't all of them, it is the amalgamation of all Chosen Undeads that were controlled by players in Dark Souls 1 that went on to link the First Flame. If you stuck through the series up to this point then it wouldn't be just you fighting another boss, it would be you facing off against your previous character with your current character. Really for this one the lore isn't too important, it's just that way so you can have a really cool rival battle like Platinum Games always puts into their games.
>>335993494
>Also who the fuck is and what happened to Oceiros? All I understood was "crazy dude went into the archives and lost it" what's his story?
He was once the king of lothric and his queen had a baby named ocelotte. oceiros went to the archives for a purpose but was sidetracked and was intrigued by seath the scaleless worship. he tried to find the moonlight greatsword but never could and was driven mad because of it he transformed into a dragon (yea wtf) and lost his eyesight in the progress. his madness also caused him to look for his child thinking its still with him. the crying could be an illusion, a magic spell or even the actual child crying i dont know.
>What the fuck happened to the profaned capital?
Bump
>>335989342
I was wondering about this too. They look the same as the serpent men from Arch dragon peak but with a smaller shell and the head of the snake cut off. And then there's those statues of the pilgrims with human heads. I remember the silver serpent ring or something saying that snakes were the symbol of the undead but it fucking beats me.
>>335993598
To put it simply it's the opposite of the fire. It's the shadow on the Age of Fire's light. It's wrong to link the Age of Dark with "eternal abyss lol" because Oolacile and New Londo happened during the mighty Age Of Fire
>>335990408
>There's a lot of concrete reasons it's bad
If there really are then nobody has actually stated them in detail. Everybody in this thread has only made hazy general statements that can be applied to any game.
>>335992804
It's because the flame has gotten so weak that it now requires 5 sacrifices to link it. It's not far off the point where the flame won't be able to be re-lit.
I've been watching ENB play it, and he threw out a thought that I found kind of weird until I found Anor Londo.
Is it possible that the world itself, along with the Unkindled, are pulling the Lords back to their thrones?
Just a small portion of Anor Londo appears, and the elevator stairs lead to literally nothing opposite the castle.
It makes a very striking impression that the castle isn't supposed to be in that part of the world.
I do recall the opening saying something about the land converging.
>>335993521
>he 1 host will survive this process, but the 4 grand souls survivability is questionable(?)
>who/where say that?
Ludleth of Courland and Yhorm are still alive.
Ludleth of Courland can be talked to; his direct quote is as follows:
"Oh, thou’rt unkindled, and a seeker of Lords. I am Ludleth of Courland. Look not in bewilderment as I say… I linked the fire long ago, becoming a Lord of Cinder. If substantiation be thy want, set thine eyes upon my charred corse. This sad cadav’r. No need to be coy, have a closer look."
Yhorm as well linked the fire, "The Profaned Capital was consumed by fire after Yhorm the Giant became a Lord of Cinder. The fire, born of the sky, is said to have incinerated naught but human flesh."
& "Lonely Yhorm became a Lord of Cinder to put the Profaned Flame to rest, knowing full well that those who spoke of him as lord were quite insincere."
>>335993521
>I repeat, from where come this reasoning?
Aldritch obtained his title purely from becoming himself physically powerful:
"Let's take Aldrich, for one.
A right and proper cleric, only, he developed a habit of devouring men.
He ate so many that he bloated like a drowned pig, then softened into sludge,
so they stuck him in the Cathedral of the Deep.
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might." Quote from Hakwood the deserter.
The Lothric Twins never linked it- dispite them being bred to do it they shirked/fled from the responcibility.
The Abyss Watchers are an army and became a "lord of cinders" collectively.
>>335993521
>Maybe you are wrong, don't talk like your thing is fact.
Fuck you.
You don't get to be such a pencil-dick when you don't offer a counter argument and just squat their like a wart saying," WELL HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?" After I just give you like 5 paragraphs and you just keep shitting in my hands.
>>335991496
>they even made them less ugly and ratlike
>>335994030
Of course, that's why all these Lords lands are right next to each other. They ran to the four corners of the world, only the corners are pulling towards each other
>>335994030
Well that is literally the Ashen One's job. And the Lords of Cinder are all from different Ages of Fire. So that's probably true.
>>335992592
Source: your ass
All the lords of cinder linked the fire. I agree that the underlying story is the same and you're just using their souls for power like in ds1 and ds2.
Idk if it's one guy samefagging to try to push his theory, but this shits already been argued that all the lords linked it.
>ludleth- has several lines of dialogue saying he linked the flame
>Yhorm- "faced his fate as a lord". What fate would that be? Linking the fire
>Aldritch- hawkwood says he was made a lord of cinder because he was strong enough to be
>Abyss watchers- their cinders explains how they did it. Their shared wolf's blood was strong enough to act as a single entity
>lothric- never linked it and you're using him since he was strong enough to link it himself but refused.
In all honesty, this game does have the weakest story in the series. The entire lothric castle sequence makes no sense.
>>335983554
What makes you think that?
The Nameless King obviously is your character from Dark Souls 1.
I honestly can't comprehend the mental gymnastics you had to go through to arrive at "hurr he's gwyn's son".
Nameless King uses multiple weapons types, with each sharing nearly identical movesets with how your character uses the same weapons. This is meant to invoke familiarity with the player as in "hey I recognize that move!".
That and the fact that he FUCKING COPIES GWYN IN THE END. Like seriously? Are you retarded? "hurr he's gwyn's son because daddy and son are exactly alike!"like gwyndolin right?
It couldn't possibly be because your character took Gwyn's power at the end of DS1 right?
>>335994030
The world is converging on Lothric/the Kiln, yes, but Anor Londo hasn't moved. The rest of the city has just been replaced with Irithyll over the years. It's still in the same place it always was, with Lothric placed where the Duke's Archives once were. Which is how Oceiros got into Seath's research and fucked himself up.
>>335991567
It's because they're the most tragic of the magic schools. Their founder failed to control power and created demons, several of her family members became demons themselves, and worst of allthey live in a fucking swamp
>>335994168
lol
read his armor and ashes
>>335994030
Yeah, that seems to be what's happening. We go to the Catacombs of Carthus, and Carthus is supposed to be a desert. Following a straight path takes you from there to the frozen land of Irithyll, then to Anor Londo. Or down into Lost Izalith for some reason.
>>335994183
I thought Irithyll was built over Eleum Loyce and the Profaned Flame was whatever was left of the Chaos Flame?
>>335994168
Are you confusing the Nameless King with the Soul of Cinder? Or is this bait?
>>335993494
>Why do people assume Gwynevere fucked Oceiros? It's made pretty clear she fucked off. Only thing that returned was her daughter who got transformed into the dancer
The "Queen of Lothric" is mentioned twice in the items Hidden Blessing and Divine Blessing: "The Queen of Lothric, married to the former King Oceiros, was initially revered as a goddess of fertility and bounty. After giving birth to Ocelotte, her youngest, she quietly disappeared."
"There is a grave in Lothric that sees no visitors, a dark place where rootless warriors rest. The Queen of Lothric alone cared to wish the poor souls good fortune."
This is significant because the divine blessing is an item from Dark souls 1 and explicitly describes the item as being "blessed by Gwynevere".
I dunno though, that's all I got for that. I think it's more likely to be a daughter of Gwynevere, but who the fuck really knows.
>>335991937
>hey kid let me in
>im an angel
>>335994030
It's like the flame is pulling the world together to make the process of linking it easier as it fades
>>335994117
>>335994140
So what exactly is Lothric, in terms of being a "land of ancient lords?"
Also, has anyone come up with a world map? Like how the TES community mapped Akavir and some other areas using lore info.
>>335994323
It was. They're all the same place.
>Eleum Loyce is in a northern valley and looks like Anor Londo
>Irithyll is in a northern (boreal) valley and looks like Anor Londo
>opening states pilgrims journeyed north to get to Lothric
>undead Asylum is in the north and somewhere near Lordran
>a million hints in DS3 that Lothric is Lordran
>Eleum Loyce has a fucked up replication of the Chaos flame
>Irithyll apparently has some fucked up flame similar to Chaos but that only burns human flesh
>Profaned Flame was caused by followers of a 'certain oracle', just like Eleum Loyce's flame
>>335994403
The flame is a like a dying star, and it's becoming a black hole.
>>335994075
>Ludleth of Courland and Yhorm are still alive.
they resurrect, just watch the intro
>but Ludleth don't!
and here it's only your word, it's the same as I say "was out camera!"
thank you for quote that for me:
>"And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might"
you can't think the possibility of Aldrich was forced to become Lord of cinder (link to the fire/kill) as Martyr, damn all Pontiff plot is for that.
He ressurect from the dead and that is FACT.
>Fuck you.
nice argument, all your wall text MAY BE a fanfic because you don't understand the things and facts
>>335993494
>gwynevere
The holy blessing item description in ds1 said it was blessed by gwynevere and she was a goddess of fertility. Ds3 has the same description except it's replaced with the queen
>oceiros
Just a dude looking for power. It's implied he started doing some fucked up stuff to create a heir that would link the flame. Lothric also had a culture of dragon slaying. They could of probably tied this in better though.
>Andre
Fanservice. He's also an undead extremely dedicated to his purpose. Undead don't die until they lose purpose
>ornstein
Yeah he was. He left to go search for the nameless king. The dragonslayer in ds2 maybe the real ornstein or just an imposter.
>everything's close
Are you talking about the map layout? The game says the world is converging and times convulated, which is a pretty shit explanation but an explanation none the less.
>profaned capital
Personally, I think it got fucked up by the old chaos and that the profaned flame is just the flame of chaos. Profaned flame implies some kind of desecration, which makes sense since the flame of chaos was a bastardized version of the first flame.
>>335994869
We know that Profaned isn't Chaos, because every description relating to Chaos says it's gone out. Someone here theorized that Profaned is a piece of Chaos infused with Humanity and that's why it only burns human flesh. Which seems like a pretty good possibility.
>>335994937
The entire Profaned Flame and Capital is so rushed and brushed over in the game. Is there a reason for this? Is it another Lost Izalith where they didn't get time to finish it?
