Dark Souls 3 lore thread?
Dark Souls 3 lore thread.
A lot of people are saying the game is half finished and that you should expect the answers in the DLC, but every From game so far has had supplementary lore in their DLC, and not actual answers (AotA explained that the abyss is bad and Manus is the furtive pygmy, Lost Crowns was basically DS2 repeats itself, Old Hunters was what happens when you get blood drunk and get sent to Hunter's Nightmare) so I want to try and discuss things that we actually might know and not chalk it up to "the angels are serpents and it'll be in the Londor DLC".
How did Aldrich get back into Irithyll without his magic doll?
Why does Pontiff turn his best knights into beasts?
Why are there 5 Irithyll beasts in Lothric?
Who/why/what the fuck is Ocelotte?
Why are the evangelists from Cathedral of the Deep going into the undead town and fucking shit up? Why are they bringing undead to the road of sacrifice to be turned into Bloodborne werewolves or eaten by swamp slugs?
Untended Graves isn't Ludleth's Firelink, and our Firelink isn't fake.
It's actually the Firelink that belongs to Prince Lothric. It's the shrine that he never went to as a prince because he wanted to let the fires fade (indicated by his dialogue and being ravaged by the curse).
Furthermore, Champ's descriptions all state that he waited for someone to arrive to judge them, but no one ever showed up. Also, if you visit your starting grave, you pick up the Ashen Estus Ring. It states that Gwynevere (mother of Lothric) left the ring there to aid the Unkindled, so she had access to it. It would make sense that she has access to her son's Firelink if the Firelink belonged to him.
It might also explain the ties to the black knights there, if Gwynevere had access to the area.
To elaborate, I think all the areas that you visit in the game are ripped from various universes, because it is "the transitory lands". So it would make sense that you are the champion of your own Firelink, but you can also see the Firelink of another Lord.
Thoughts? Certainly a lot better than "Ludleth made a fake firelink because reasons"
Im sick of all this shit fucking gwyn's family soap opera bullshit. Gwyn did this, gwyn's mother's sister's step-son's daughter did that. Fuck that shit. Best thing introduced in the series is the Pontiff's shit cuz it was actually something new and interesting
>>335924019
>Aldrich without his doll
Does it matter? Aldrich is the saint of the deep, that Sulyvahn is the pope of. He probably just let him in or something.
>Why does Pontiff turn his best knights into beasts
It's implied that the knights are going feral from abyss corruption in the same way that Artorias went feral. That's why they all kinda fight in the same crazy style.
>Why are there 5 Irithyll beasts in Lothric
Why not? Same reason there are black knights all over in the first game, in the third game, and why Heide knights were all over in the second game. They probably just roamed because they were feral
>Who/Why/What the fuck is Ocelotte?
Ocelotte is Oceiros' son. Oceiros and Gwynevere had at least 4 confirmed children (Lothric, Lorian, Gertrude, and Ocelotte) and Rosaria is either Gwynevere reborn or their 5th child. Their line is fucked up for various reasons (Gertrude listened to "angels" that were actually Primordial Serpents and got locked away, Lothric took on Lorian's curse out of brotherly love, Lothric was too weak to perform the linking of the fire and chose not to, and Rosaria is Rosaria). It was their destiny to do something about the fire but they never did anything. Ocelotte was, for all intents and purposes, the true last hope of the Oceiros line.
Oceiros effectively became Seath 2.0/Aldia 2.0 and experimented with dragon research to make himself and his child immortal. It's implied that the Irithyll dungeon's prisoners are failed dragon experiments.
Ocelotte is more or less dead or never existed. Any crying you hear is Oceiros being delusional, as indicated by his crying before you enter the fog wall. Half way through the fire he thinks you kill his child and he goes berserk.
>Why are the evangelists...
They're evangelists of the deep. Aldrich, saint of the deep, was originally a massive cannibal. He ate so many people he became more than just bloated and turned into a fat blob. The evangelists lead undead to him to be eaten.
>>335924734
Lorian took on Lothric's curse*
>>335924734
where did you get the information that oceiros is gwynevere's husband and lothric and lorian are their sons? and where's gertrude mentioned? Despite that I liked your theory
Might be an easy question but who exactly are the firekeepers? Where do they come from and how do they become one? What exactly are bonfires? Why do undead respawn at them?
>>335924734
While we're on Oceiros, why is a guy scientifically turning himself into a dragon not a bigger deal? Even Aldia couldn't pull that shit off.
>>335924734
Don't forget that the Dancer also has some connection to Rosaria/gwynevere, you can transpose her soul into a miracle that is the "lite" version of bountiful sunlight.
>>335925732
Off the very top of my head, I think it's mentioned in the divine blessing. I think divine blessing says some ambiguous queen of Lothric is where the blessings come from, but the tool tip is identical otherwise to Dark Souls 1, and instead of queen of Lothric, straight up says Gwynevere.
I believe there are more obvious item texts but that's off the very top of my head.
>>335926063
I don't think there is an easy answer for that. Dark Souls 1's Fire Keeper Soul says they're the "corporeal manifestation of her bonfire", and that their soul is what you offer humanity to (and what humanity feeds on).
I think bonfires are links to the first flame. So, different parts of the first flame. That would probably make sense seeing how you can't make a bonfire just anywhere. And it's my understanding that not all undead respawn at them. Only the Chosen undead, who cannot go hollow, will spawn at them (hollowing is just a metaphor for insanity, that is, the Chosen undead goes "hollow" when the player gives up, or, in a sense, never respawns).
>>335926474
I don't know to be honest. I guess the fact he went insane probably didn't do him any favors? Aldia managed to stay sane and be a lore dump so he has that going for him.
>>335926597
Yeah, it Dancer's armor ()specifically the veil) also mentions she's part of the royal family. She might be another child, I don't know.
>>335926795
alright, I would agree, but the Ring of the Sun Princess from Drk Souls 1 says
'The Princess of Sunlight Gwynevere left
Anor Londo along many other deities,
and later became wife to Flame God Flann.'
with that said, do you think Oceiros might be Flame God Flann?
Who is the nameless king?
>>335925732
Forgot Gertrude. The Divine Pillars of Light miracle says that Gertrude is the "Heavenly Daughter" and holy maiden to the Queen, and that she was visited by an angel, which became a heretical faith in Lothric. There are numerous statues in the Dragonslayer Armor area and beyond of angelic-looking Primordial Serpents.
Now that I think about it, Gertrude might not actually be a daughter of Oceiros, just her title is "Heavenly Daughter" (like daughter of the angels or something). So scratch the one about her being a daughter. The point about Lothric/Lorian and Ocelotte still stands.
>>335927592
I considered that but there are other examples that imply that Gwynevere is the queen of Lothric. The Sun Princess Ring in her room past Aldrich says that she left her home and raised several heavenly children (Lothric/Lorian 100% look like Gwyndolin, and Rosaria too to a degree).
Furthermore, Divine Blessing in Dark Souls one specifically refers to Gwynevere as the "symbol of bounty and fertility". Divine Blessing in Dark Souls 3 says "The Queen of Lothric, married to the former King Oceiros, was initially revered as a goddess of fertility and bounty."
I think there are other examples from the various boss souls you can turn in for miracles, but I'd have to go looking them up again.
>>335927638
Son of Gwyn. There's like 7 item descriptions that more or less say that he was outcasted for siding with the dragons (explaining why his statues are missing in Dark Souls 1), the possession of his lightning miracles, and that Ornstein was one of his knights who went looking for him after he went to Arch Dragon peak. (The Ornstein you fight in Anor Londo is implied to be an illusion by Gwyndolin because Smough's armor says he's the last knight to have defended Anor Londo)
>>335924052
>Gwynevere (mother of Lothric)
wait what?
>>335928363
See
>>335926795
>>335928147
tldr divine blessings, various miracles
>>335928559
Interesting.
>>335928147
That makes sense, I was convinced that Gwynevere was queen of Lothric but the item description for the Ring of the Sun Princess was knocking on my head, I'm pleased now. I was thinking that the Dancer of the Boreal Valley was Gwynevere's daughter aswell, since she's related to royalty and Anor Londo in some sense, since Irithyll is the lower part of it.
>>335928870
Yeah it's entirely possible Dancer is Gwynevere's daughter too. At the very least, there is some sort of tie to her. Thanks for reminding me about that.
>>335928363
For me that is weird....she left Anor Londo to move basically next door? The locations are basically the same.
>>335929469
The land of Lothric converges the path of the lords, so the land might be shifted, we can't say Anor Londo and Lothric are close. Someone or something says 'the very nature of this land is weird', the same happens to time in Dark Souls 1
Gwynevere boss in DLC that does tit slams.
>>335926597
Rosaria is not Gwynevere
reminder that Archdragon Peak is a dream
>>335929469
Well there are two answers for this. The first is that Irithyll and Anor Londo are actually relatively far away. You cannot see Irithyll/Anor Londo from Firelink Shrine/Lothric Castle (firelink being just outside the walls of Lothric). Just because they might seem close because you can walk there doesn't mean they are actually close because it does take some time to get there. Furthermore, it's implied in the games that the distance you travel when you run from zone to zone isn't necessarily reflective of the actual distance you've traveled. First instance, in Dark Souls 2, you can see Heide's Tower of Flame at a distance from Majula, but it's really a very short walk. Drangleic Castle is also a very short walk, despite constantly being in the horizon. There's probably some better examples in Dark Souls 1 since DS2 is kinda black sheepish, but you get my point.
The other answer is there are implications that Dark Souls 3's locations are pulled together from various parts of the world from separate timelines or universes.
For starters, the intro cinematic states that you're in "Where the transitory lands of the Lords of Cinder converge." Furthermore, you have some areas, such as Carthus Catacombs, that say that the surrounding area is different than what it actually is. Carthus, in particular, was apparently a desert kingdom, but we know it's surrounded by a swamp and then Irithyll.
You also have things such as the height level disjoint between Lothric Castle and Undead Settlement. If you look closely past Vordt, you can see that the area you get picked up by the Anor Londo gargoyles is actually a bridge that was connected to Undead Settlement, but Lothric Castle is weirdly way above it, as though they weren't positioned correctly when warped in.
Finally, the existence of two Firelink Shrines (three counting the Kiln's) implies that a Firelink may have been warped in with Lothric Castle, right next to your own Firelink Shrine.
>>335930246
Does Rosaria have something to do with the old chaos covenant?
So is Dragonslayer Armor an illusion too? (Since we find Ornstein's armor in Archdragon Peak). And just what exactly is he?
>>335930407
smough
>>335930407
he is being controlled by the tree dragons
he is not a living being at all, literally just armour
>>335924019
>his best knights into beasts?
>best
No, it's a knights who were send out of his land
More likely he hoped that they will never return
>>335930392
probably
Why people keep saying that Aldrich was forced to link the fire and not did it willingly?
>>335924558
Well Gwen is like Zeus and family drama is pretty much what Zeus is all about
>>335930407
I think it's a generic set of Dragonslayer Armor. There's no real reason that there's only one Dragonslayer and it's only Ornstein.
The soul of the Dragonslayer Armor says that it's being reanimated by the Pilgrim Butterflies (flying undead dragon/nervous system things)
>>335930258
You say that based on the fact that the scenario changes? I don't think it's a dream since we can see it from Irithyll Dungeon. The scenario might change because Nameless King is a god (precisely Dragonslayer God of War), so I think he could have the powers to do whatever pleases him to the land.
>>335927638
Ornstein but also illusion Solaire.
>>335930643
you literally fall asleep to travel there
>>335930643
Don't forget that it's incredibly sunny there, despite the fact that 1. It's night time in Irithyll/Anor Londo 2. The sun in later points of the game has a Dark Sign over it and the sky changes color. This is visible anywhere else you can see the sun (IE including outside of Lothric)
>>335930381
Please dont start talking about DS2.
>>335923515
How come if you kill Emma and the Dancer early, she still teleports you to the castle after killing the other bosses? Was she even real or a hologram?
In terms of the timeline, how far ahead is Dark Souls 3 from 1? And where does 2 fit in the timeline? There's some things that contradict each other, for example: kingdoms and lands like Catarina, Carim, Anor Londo, still exist in DS3 implying it takes place not long after the events of DS1. And in DS2 we're told that many kingdoms have risen and fell since, which implies that millenia have passed before the events of DS2. But then we have characters like Yhorm, who is implied to be the descendant (not just son) of the Giant Lord (see Yhorm's soul & cinders). So this doesn't make sense chronologically. Any ideas?
>>335930969
This might connect even more Nameless King to the sun/Gwyn. Archdragon Peak could have some sort of enchantment on it to be invisible from Anor Londo/Irithyll, since I think the Sun's Firstborn don't want any business with his family, but I might be just spacing out.
>>335930246
Chill, i ain't saying one is the other, that "/" should be read as "or".
Honestly, i liked the theory some other anon threw into a lore thread last week, where Rosaria is a daughter of Gwynevere's marriage with Flann, Oceiro's wife and mother to the Dancer&co, making the item descriptions that mention the queen of Lothric's disappearance point to bailiff sillyman abducting her or the Dancer and blackmailing either one or the other into submission. Plus, divine blessing's mention the queen was a symbol of fertility which explains the ungodly amount of cribs in her chamber.
>>335931717
DS2 was an illusion...a 60 dollar illusion.
How did Pontiff get away with it all?
He's a fucking madman
>>335931449
It had better lore than DS3, meme-kun.
>>335931718
You can see it from Anor Londo. The thing is huge.
>>335932203
I mean, I could understand if DS2 was just retconned, but the fact that they still tied it into DS3 confuses me. Also, finding Gilligan at the Profaned Capital was funneh
time and space bends in Lordran lol
So why can you hear voices when you stand still in a silent room?
Is your character insane, is it just part of the curse or what?
>>335932364
Then I am totally spacing out, I think you can see it from where the fight clubs takes place, just before Pointiff's bonfire. Totally wrong lol
>>335931707
Dunno. Oversight? Maybe just in case on your first playthrough you magically kill Dancer first, and then the 3 lords later and you have no idea where you're supposed to go. Probably just bad coding.
>>335931717
Dark Souls 1 is meant to be the second time the First Flame starts dying, with Gwyn being the first Lord of Cinder. The Chosen Undead is the first possible person to become the second Lord of Cinder (you might go dark ending though, so maybe not the second).
Dark Souls 2 takes place far away from Lordran many many millennia into the future. Dark Souls 2 DLC takes place in between Dark Souls 1 and 2.
Dark Souls 3 takes place some relatively indiscernible amount of time after Dark Souls 2 (even longer after Dark Souls 1). The cinematic states that in this time period, the fire has gone an incredibly long time without being linked, longer than ever before. It rings a special bell (probably a Bell of Awakening from the first game) to raise five of the previous Lords of Cinder to make them relink the fire to preserve itself. But the lords of cinder don't want that and abandon their duty (save Ludleth), so it reanimates you, an Unkindled One, to go around and kill them and bring back their souls to rekindle the fire.
So, to answer your question, it takes place long after 1 and 2. The reason you see older places again is because they probably did not disappear with DS2 because DS2 does not take place in Lordran, while DS3 (to a degree) does. And characters like Yhorm are Lords of Cinder who came some time after Dark Souls 1 (and probably 2) who were reanimated to link the fire.
>>335932602
What? When you are hollow or all the time.
I did notice that if you are hollow you dont cast any shadow but no voices.
>>335932737
Gotcha. Thanks anon. I didn't play the crowns DLC so I don't know what happens there, but I assume it's more or less the same as in DS1 where we go back in time.
>>335932602
you have schizophrenia man
>>335932602
I think you can hear voices in every game whenever you stand in a silent room. At the very least, I know you can in Bloodborne. It's just an atmospheric thing and I wouldn't give it much thought.
>>335933097
Crowns DLC is more or less "Dark Souls 2 happens a lot". You have a kingdom with a king during an age of fire, and then a fragment of Manus shows up as a woman and loves the king and makes them do bad things, and then there's a dark age.
So yeah, more or less go back in time.
>>335924734
So when Gwynevere left Anor Londo she went with Oceiros ? Where´s is she in Das 3 ? Oceiros, Lotric, Lorian and Gertrude are all there. I dont thing Queen Lotric is Gwynevere
>>335924734
>"angels" that were actually Primordial Serpents
Sauce ?
>>335933521
there are statues around that show the primordial serpents with feathered wings
>>335925732
In the Winged Angel armor she is mentioned. You can alsoFind her later in game
>>335925732
This, it al makes sense excep that gwynevere is the queen.
>>335933379
According to the Divine Blessing (I think there may be another item but this is enough): "After giving birth to Ocelotte, her youngest, she quietly disappeared.".
So, quietly disappeared could mean anything I guess. Dead, turned into Rosaria, ran away, used camouflage to turn into a statue in Yorshka Church, maybe kidnapped by the serpents.
>>335933521
There are a LOT of statues around Lothric Castle between Dragonslayer of angelic-looking beings that are actually primordial serpents.
Here's another picture: http://i.imgur.com/kudTnxL.jpg
>>335933379
She left again...the girl is a terrible mom.
Also, who the fuck is the dragon thing in the tower, is she her sister? Or she is just crazy...and where the fuck is Pricilla? And dont tell me is her, because Pris was cute.
>>335933031
I'm pretty sure you don't need to be hollow but maybe it has to do with the dark sign.
I'll have reach NG++ or make a new character and test it.
>>335933180
I'm NOT crazy!
A friend was watching me play through the Steam stream thing and confirmed it wasn't just me going insane!
>>335933227
If that's the case then it's very disappointing.
I spent half an hour going up and down the Firekeepers tower behind Firelink because I could swear there must be an NPC hidden somewhere there making those noises.
Then later I got tricked by Patches and I assumed he was the one hidden and doing the sounds but even after I killed him the sounds were still there.I just wanted to find a cute Maiden In Black firekeeper that was still alive and hidden in some weird corner crying and I could save her and make her mine, is that too much to wish for? ;_;
>>335933894
That's Yorshka, new Captain of the Darkmoon Blades. She says she's the sister of Gwyndolin (and by extension Gwynevere). She also says that Sulyvahn imprisoned her in that tower. Some people say that it's implied that the invisible bridge is camouflaged by Gwyndolin to hide access to her, but there's not necessarily proof of that so your excuse as to why she's alive and not eaten by Aldrich is as good as mine.
Priscilla is probably in the Painted World. It's implied that optional bosses weren't killed in the first game (because Gwyndolin was still alive to be eaten by Aldrich). Furthermore, it's never specifically stated that Aldrich ate her. He only dreamed of her existence. The fact that he has control of Gwyndolin's body, bow, spells, and Nito's attire but can only make a Lifehunt miracle implies that he never actually got to her.
So maybe she's alive and will be in the DLC.
That being said, at one point in the game's development, you could obtain "crossbreed" clothes from the Irithyll dungeon. So at one point in the game's development she might've been prisoner or dead. But now she has a chance of being alive.
I am referring to this imgur album - https://imgur.com/a/olgvn.
>>335934229Yes, different universes and all that
There are feathers in Gertrude cage, and the cage looks like a bird cage.In his research Ocerios fucked a winged serpent and shes a deformed bird ...?
>>335923515
What the fuck is an unkindled
It's clearly different from being an undead because you can't hollow unless you get branded with the curse by Yoel of Londor, and there appear to be very few actual undead left.
Is an unkindled one simply a chosen undead that failed to link the fire? Perhaps they're men and women who died without ever gaining the darksign, and were branded with an artifical darksign so that they may be better kindling for bonfires
The homeward bone and bone ash both heavily imply that bonfires are made and maintained with the burning bodies of the undead.
Perhaps with so few true undead left the unkindled are put to better use attempting to kill the lords of cinder
So /v/, why aren't we marrying her?
She has more noble blood then lucky Anri would ever have, that's for sure.
>>335934634
I don't know. You are right, they are clearly different from undead because they can't hollow without a Dark Sigil. The most that we know really is that they're a sort of police used by the First Flame to seek out and kill the Lords of Cinder for not performing their duties and linking the flame.
But, they can perform duties that an actual undead can do. That is, they can choose to link the fire, they can choose to become the dark lord, and they can also steal the flame for themselves (dark lord ending 2.0? I don't actually know what that entails) or they can kill the flame and end the world.
So yeah, dunno.
Are there any other bells in the game aside from the ones in Archdragon Peak?
>>335933227
Remember how the half dragon cute is also invisible unti you hit her? The baby may as well be true.
>>335934634
I personally think the unkindled are what happened when an undead was first infused with faint heat by a king that never took the throne.
>>335935024
In the painted world of Dark Souls 1.
>>335934935
>But, they can perform duties that an actual undead can do
Well, it's implied that gaining the souls from the lords of cinder allows you to transcend your status as unkindled. You're able to "link the fire" because all that means is returning the lord souls to the first flame (by acquiring their power and sacrificing your form).
They can let the fire go out through inaction, but to steal the fire (steal the power of the first flame) they must be hollowed by the dark sigil.
>>335930381
Not to mention when you walk outside of the firelink shrine in the kiln of the first flame you can see an absolute clusterfuck of castles and other architecture in various states of disrepair where lothric castle should be, as if all the different realities are converging there.
>>335923515
Why do ppl even care for this excuse of a story. It sounds like a bunch of writers got drunk and shat on a piece of paper and they used that as a script for the story.
>>335934910
She is one of Manus daughters, no one should ever touch such disgusting creature
>>335934956
Chimes? There's also the one in Firelink Shrine that wakes up the Lords of Cinder I think.
>>335935024
People keep saying that but that doesn't make sense to me. Oceiros is clearly the one crying before you enter the fog wall. He's gone insane the same way Seath and other sorcerers have gone insane studying sorcery.
He's also clutching onto that "hidden" child the whole time. There's no reason to believe the child was ever there. Furthermore there's no other invisible dragons throughout the series. Priscilla is an outlier.
>>335935317
You can steal the fire by beginning the End of Fire ending and attacking the Firekeeper during the last 10~ seconds you control your character. That does not require you to be hollow, and there is not a distinct achievement for that ending.
https://youtu.be/00KiUkde08g?t=145
I started watching ENB's playthrough recently and noticed something I didn't before. What's up with the pictures about the flames you have to extinguish in Farron Keep? They look like maybe Nito, Bed of Chaos and Four Kings, but for what reason?
>>335934910
she got stretched out by jailors
Firekeeper is the only pure waifu
>>335934634
The popular theory I heard is that you are one of the Lord of Cinder, you have linked the fire and burn yourself until you are Ashen One.
>>335935024
Well either that or this is an advanced case of crystal madness as examplified by the breath of Oceiros.
>>335935538
I'd not go for Karla for pureness. You gotta embrace the dark. Sometimes literally.
>>335935434
Exactly, she's as close as you'll get to one of the original lords.
>>335935502
I mean bells, like the bells of awakening in DS1.
A bell rings out as you wake up at the start of DS3 and the bell signed messages guide you throughout the game. Obviously there are plenty of bells in the belfry at Archdragon Peak, I was just wondering if they were of any significance.
>>335935317
You aren't returning the lord souls when you link the flame. The flame seems to use souls as its fuel and any strong soul is sufficient to link it. If it where the case that you were using the lord souls then you could just dump them into the flame and fuck off without sacrificing yourself. In DS1 all gathering the lord souls does is grant you access to the kiln but it's your soul that links it if you choose that ending. When you link the fire you aren't transcending shit, you're fulfilling your purpose as back-up fuel for the flame in case the undead all fail.
>>335935515
It's a test for some undead who wish to join the Farron undead legion.
>>335935909
The Flame IS souls.
The reason the first flame began to fade in the first place was because Gwyn and Nito and Pygmy and the Witches took power from it, turning their souls into lord souls.
Whats the deal with the pictures of 4Kings, Nito, and Izalith above the fires in Farron keep?
Is it universally accepted that beanpole went to go find the first born, found out he teamed up with the dragons, and then either fought him and lost or just committed sudoku on the spot?
>>335934910
Because she's not unkindled? Your spouse has to be Unkindled and have Dark Sigils, that way they can have both the first flame and dark soul, Ashened One and Anri are going to start a new line of humans with both in the Usurper ending
>>335936487
That's an awesome spot, I never noticed that.
It probably doesn't mean anything in particular though. It's looks like it's just important Lords of Fire right before one of the Lords of Cinder.
>>335935515
Nito and Four Kings can be explained by association with the dark grave of giants and the abyss itself...though due to proximity it might be residue from the abyss causing the apparent darkness in the grave, now that I think about it... perhaps we can raw the with Aldrich here.
We know he comes from the deep, which seems similar to the abyss, wears nito as a skirt and may have eaten the witch of Izalith, as signified by the root-like potrusions in his body...
Something is missing there to connect these dots...
>>335936487
it's a reenactment of the chose undeads journey, because you know it was the Chosen Undead who defeated the abyss, Artorias the little faggot just took the credit
>>335936568
His armor is just laying there with no corpse nearby, unlike all other armor sets across all 4 DS games.
This makes me think he stripped the armor off, threw it to the ground, and went off to become a hermit.
>>335923515
3 questions,
1. What exactly is the Deep, it apparantly is filled with tiny biting bugs but what is it and what is in there?
2. What was with the profaned flame? For something so cool sounding barely anything seems to have come from it.
3. What was the backstory of the profaned capital? Apparently the profaned flame burnt all the humans there but what's with the handmaidens, gargoyles and piles of what looks like treasure?
>>335936925
or maybe he is the worm in smouldering lake, which is supposed to be a former dragonslayer
>>335936851
In fact the undead legion shared something with Atorias. I don't know if I read it on wolf blood set or something.
>>335936997
1.Abyss, why worms never worked with Pontiff or Aldrich is mystery
2.Remains of the tree of artificial difficulty
3.You can see das2 characters and Nash portrait there, take a guess
>>335936689
That's finally a good reason.
I remember the theory of how the age of dark might look as few powerful individualls reigning over the weak by stealing their power. Seems with usurping the flame we finally gain the closest thing to a true dark lord ending.
>>335937127
>In fact the undead legion shared something with Atorias
I don't remember whether it was a soul, weapon or covenant item description, but the Undead Legion and Watchdogs are basically Artorias' followers. One description says that the "Wolf Knight" (Artorias) was the first of Abyss Watchers.
Their fate is also really similar. Artorias got tainted by the Abyss, and in the Abyss Watchers boss fight they kill each other (the red eyed ones are hostile to others) due to their numbers being tainted by the Abyss as well.
>>335936851
>>335937127
Haven't they shared the wolfblood? And seemingly being easily corrupted by the abyss, which I'd attribute the red eyed watchers to.
Though that even makes sense in case of the legion, since the corrupted could always be felled b those to come after.
>>335937204
The first is apparently wrong since deep is 'a darkness that lies beyond human ken'
>>335936997
1. Dunno. It sounds like it's some sort of worship of a false ending. That is, it's this false belief that there's Fire, Dark, Grey, AND Deep, but Deep is probably not real. At least, I doubt it's real. Maybe it was some form of worship that sprung up to get desperate people who needed some sort of salvation to get fed to Aldrich? But this is just Vaati levels of speculation so...
2. I don't know either. I thought it was like a false First Flame, like maybe something the Witches tried to create (but didn't go full Tree of Chaos)
3. What >>335937204 said, maybe? I never noticed the portrait of Nashandra, but it would make a lot of sense. Drangleic is often referred to by items "xxx of Want" so maybe Profaned Capital is a collection of human materials that we want? DS2 and DS3 often relate human emotions to hollowing, such as "want" or the concept of "luck". And I believe the Japanese translation for Profaned Capital is "City of Sin", so "sin" could be synonymous with "greed".
It would also explain the ties between giants. That is, Drangleic invaded the giants, beat them senseless, stole their throne, the giants came back and maybe Yhorm lead the revolution, or perhaps Yhorm was from a time before or after and lead his people against the humans. But then he was peaceful and gave out Storm Ruler to the humans in order to make them trust him.
My personal theory is that Yhorm came after Drangleic, and was half human half giant. He would eventually go hollow, and knew that he would. So he gave Storm Ruler to Siegward, and told Siegward to kill him if he ever went hollow.
It would explain why he's a lord of cinder, why he was on decent terms with the humans, and why Siegward was his friend and personally possessed the sword that could kill him (meanwhile Yhorm at one point reclaimed the other sword, probably as a matter of protectign himself).
This is all speculation, so I could be wrong, but it seems all plausible.
>>335936997
I think the profaned flame is simply the First Flame that Yhorm kindled, way back when. For reasons unknown, while it succeeded in prolonging the age of fire, it scorched the land around him, killing all the humans. It could be something to do with the fact that he was a giant, as a giant has never before kindled the flame. As for the Profaned capital? No idea
>>335937763
3. pt2 - I think Yhorm is half human because you can clearly see his face behind the hood he wears, but you can't see that face on any of the other giants. I don't know if it's just an "update" to how giants are supposed to look, but I think he's meant to be clearly distinct from the other giants, hence the "half human half giant, will later hollow" theory.
>>335937758
Actually, they're not just his followers, they are the very blood of Artorias. The legion were a band of warriors who came to Oolacile, found his corpse, and drank "the blood of the wolf". So when the Abyss seeped into Artorias, it was fated to seep into the Legion, eventually.
>>335936925
it'd be hilarious to find a red haired hermit hiding somewhere in the dlc
>>335934910
Because she needs to live so we can be her naughty studentscause sexy dark teachers make me hard
Also, why does future-ashen one go back in time and stab gundyr?
>>335938196
'You know, I was once a Dragonslayer like you... then humanity happened.'
>>335938428
Because the first time wasn't enough stabbing.
>>335938196
>DS1 had an Artorias DLC
>DS3 will get an Ornstein DLC
I'd be okay with that
What pose is the Soul of Cinder in when you see him for the first time?
>>335923515
Probably because they havent put together enough item descriptions to make some lore up.
>>335938774
I so want to have Ornstein make snide comments about the Dragonslayer amor
>>335938428
I think the Untended Grave and "other" Firelink are Lothric's Firelink. He was the one chosen to be next to link the fire, but that plan went to shit when he was born a cripple. So through his own inability (and the fact that he didn't believe in rekindling the fire), he was never able to begin his journey. Champ's soul says something like "the Iudex awaits a champion of ash to judge him, but he never came". So because Lothric shirked his duty, it's too late for someone to kindle the flame on their own, the darkness is already setting in. So that's why we need the Lords back on their thrones. Essentially we need the combined power of 5 Lords of Cinder to save the fire from extinguishing. (All of this is assuming the Chosen Undead kindled the flame in DS1)
>>335936568
No really, how the fuck can Ornstein keep coming back to life?
>inB4 illusions
Illusions don't have Souls
As someone who is completely new to the series, do I have to go through Demon Souls as well was Dork Souls 1 and 2 to grasp the story? And if I get Dark 1 via steam and play mouse and keyboard, how fucked will I be?
So what's the likelihood of Soul of Cinder being the Chosen Undead from DS1?
>>335937916
I've seen someone else say that exact thing.
I am willing to accept it into my headcanon.
What the fuck are the white jailer things that flock around the flames in those chalices though?
>>335934910
Sooo why isn't Karla working with Yuria? Being a daughter of Manus and probably the most powerful being in Firelink Shrine.
>>335939283
Play Dark Souls 1 & 2. Demon Souls is not canon. Or rather, not in the same universe
>>335939243
>Illusions don't have souls
Tell that to the damn giants in anor londor!
>>335939283
>Demon's Souls
No.
>Dark Souls
You're going to be missing out on the most content from DS3 if you skip Dark Souls.
>Dark Souls 2
It's mainly about setting up the universe but it's self contained otherwise.
You're only going to be missing out on references for the most part. The story is very unimportant and throwaway.
>>335938774
I want Ciaran's armor back.
I also want to know what became of her while we're at it.
Since optional fights are basically all not canon at this point, I'm willing to assume Chosen Undead didn't kill her when she asked for Artorias' soul in Oolacile.
It would be funny if there was a Ciaran fight where she wasn't small anymore and people had to figure out why the fuck she was small two games ago.
>>335939283
I tried. You're toast when fight anything but the gibbering hollows in the VERY beginning.
>>335939343
Not a clue. Generic enemies? The gargoyles are a bit of a mystery too. I like to think they're from Belfry Luna, but that wouldn't explain why they're in Lothric Castle.
>>335939480
>but it's self contained otherwise.
Aldia blew it the fuck open.
I like to think Aldia went on scheming against Keith and Frank. In some sort of Xavier/Magneto adversarial bullshit.
>>335923515
>AotA explained that the abyss is bad and Manus is the furtive pygmy
If you think that's all AotA explained then you weren't paying attention.
AotA basically established our current understanding of Humanity, humans, hollows, the nature of dark and fire, all sorts of shit. Retards think Aldia explained that but AotA did it all first.
>>335939243
Iudex Gundyr didn't have a soul, and the silver knights/gargoyle messenger things all drop souls, despite being illusions of Gwyndolin.
What's your point?
>>335939283
You don't have to play Demon Souls. It's its own game. Still worth a playthrough.
If you wanted to understand Dark Souls 3 in it's entirety, yeah you have to play Dark Souls 1 and 2 first, but they're both decent games and worth playing through.
Mouse and keyboard controls are pretty terrible. You should seriously consider buying a controller if you're interested on PC.
>>335939289
Soul of Cinder is a reincarnation of all the people who have linked the fire. It's not specifically the Chosen Undead from DS1 anymore than it's specifically any other people who link the fire in the later games.
It's an amalgamation of everyone who has ever linked the fire. That's why it uses a variety of builds, and why the second half is Gwyn (the first person to link the flame). The Firelink Armor, however, is clearly meant to be a nod to the Elite Knight set, the mascot armor of the first game.
>>335939343
The jailers are part of a race that somehow survived the kindling of the Profaned Flame. The white ones are members of the same race that worship it for some reason, and they probably love Yhorm for lighting it.
>>335939679
>It's not specifically the Chosen Undead from DS1 anymore than it's specifically any other people who link the fire in the later games.
>and why the second half is Gwyn (the first person to link the flame).
So it's not specifically the Chosen Undead any more than any of the other guys, but it IS Gwyn more than any of the other guys?
Have you considered that maybe it's more Chosen Undead than the other guys in the same way that it's more Gwyn than the other guys?
>>335939785
Their size seems similar to whatever Artorias was supposed to be.
A lesser giant?
>>335939367
I'd rather ask why Kaathe hasn't gone and collected all of Manus' daughters at this point...
It's really a bit murky how they relate to the Age of Dark and those trying to make it happen.
>>335939283
Demon's Souls and Darks Souls story aren't related.
Play with a controller
>>335939870
there is no such thing as a lesser giant
when will this fucking meme end
>>335939679
>>335939552
Welp, looks like I'm gonna have toWatch a playthrough of the first one then play 2 and 3 on piss 4
>>335939878
All this boils down to
>we need a primordial serpent DLC
From doesn't even need to try so hard, they just need to throw some more focused bullshit lore pieces and we'll make a decent story out of it.
>>335939367
Because even Manus thinks Age of Dark fags are embarassing.
>>335939243
Powerful beings can split their souls. See Gwyn. Aren't Pyromancies flames literally that too? You can easily retcon DaS Ornstein as some construct/illusion being powered by a piece of Ornstein's soul and DaS2's Dragonslayer as being just another dude using a replica.
Alternatively Ornstein is Undead too.
>>335939679
That makes sense. I was going to point out that the Soul of Cinder didn't show up in DS1, but then I remembered that's the first time the fire was linked. It would have been cool too if the Soul of Cinder fight had some attack patterns similar to the Lords of Cinder we already fought, considering it's an amalgam of all the previous Lords. for example, a two-handed downward chop for Yhorm, a sweeping attack for the Legion, that kind of thing. Still a 8/10 fight though.
>>335939937
Nigga what the fuck are they then?
Don't give me the "shit changes size based on power level at current time" either because player character gets powerful in all 3 games and never changes in size.
A different race is the only thing that makes sense. I call it lesser giant because I dont want to make up an arbitrary name that is more vague.
>>335939283
Demon's Souls happens in a different universe, and is completely unrelated plot wise to other games. At best you're going to be seeing references in Dark Souls. Can be skipped, though it's still a good game.
Dark Souls 1 is vital for understanding the later games. Must play before playing Dark Souls 2 or 3.
Dark Souls 2 doesn't have major plot stuff in Dark Souls 3 apart from a few references in equipment descriptions. However this could change with future DLC.
tl;dr I'd suggest playing them all, but if you want the short version just play Dark Souls 1 and Dark Souls 3
>>335939621
Not really. For the most part, it explained that humanity are fragments of the dark soul, the abyss fucks things up and why Gwyn is scared of it to the point of linking the fire, and that Manus is the furtive pygmy.
It doesn't touch on humans, hollows, the nature of dark and fire, or anything else. That's mostly Kaathe in his exposition dump.
>>335939858
The reason I think that's dumb is because there's no reason why the Chosen Undead is any more important than anyone else. He's the second person to link the fire, which honestly isn't anymore important than the third or the fourth or the 50th or the 1000th person to link the fire. Gwyn, however, was a god, and was the first.
Now, I think, for sure, that Soul of Cinder was meant to be a nod to the Chosen Undead, because he's wearing Elite Knight armor, which I said was the mascot armor of the first game.
However, the fact he uses a variety of builds implies it's a variety of undead across all time, while also reflecting the variety of builds you could've used to beat the game.
So it's as much the Chosen Undead as it is not the Chosen Undead. The most you could interpret it as is a nod to the first game (which I mean, is what the entire game is really: pure fan service). But I wouldn't say it's clearly the Chosen Undead. It is, later, clearly Gwyn (because the moveset is identical, the song is identical, it's the final boss in Kiln of the First Flame, etc etc)
>>335940173
>because player character gets powerful in all 3 games and never changes in size.
Yeah, except when you fight him as a boss in Dark Souls 3, when he's about the same size as Artorias.
'but wahh its an amalgamation', yeah, it's an amalgamation of a bunch of fucking normal sized humans you dumbass. If souls don't affect size then it shouldn't matter how many normal sized humans you cram together, you'll still get a normal sized human.
>A different race is the only thing that makes sense.
Go watch the intro cinematic and look at the Witch of Izalith and her daughters. Same race. Hugely different size.
>>335939289
he is + every other person who has ever linked the fire in the past XXXXX years
>>335940173
Not him, but the size difference between humans and whatnot according the devs is just because they want major bosses and characters to seem intimidating. It's also the reason for the big knights. Player character turning big would be hard to do gameplay wise.
Don't know about giants though.
>>335940003
Kaathe and Frampt are the Patriots of Dark Souls.
It might even be the same fucking guy.
>>335939858
I like my headcanon that Soul of Cinder is just a vessel hosting one Lord of Cinder at a time and they kinda just takes turn having their fun until everyone step aside because it's Gwyn's turn
>>335940307
>The reason I think that's dumb is because there's no reason why the Chosen Undead is any more important than anyone else.
Uh, yes he is.
Do you think second place athletes are indistinguishable from 55th place athletes? Do you think the guy who comes first is the only one anyone cares about? Chosen Undead killed basically every single God or demigod or close-to-god in the very first cycle of the world and absorbed most of their souls. He is probably more powerful than anyone else to have ever linked the flame except for Gwyn.
You're a moron. Doubly so for the AotA comment if you couldn't connect the dots.
>>335940492
>primordial hydra
>>335924052
Maybe. Ludleth actually does have a connection with the dark firelink as mentioned by our firekeeper.
She says something about Ludleth knowing of the location of something that firekeepers have been longing for or something. Which is of course the eyes you find in dark firelink.
>>335939878
Is Kathe also Ansem?
>>335924052
Wrong. Our Firelink is Prince Lothric's Firelink.
>>335940581
>Chosen Undead killed basically every single God or demigod or close-to-god in the very first cycle of the world
A big point was made in DaS that the world is dying and most of the gods you find are way past their prime.
>>335940727
You have proof for that?
>>335940143
That would be kind of a clusterfuck. Soul of Cinder already uses 4 different fighting styles.
When you look at Dark Souls you need to get your head out of your ass a little bit and realize not everything has a lore reason. A lot of the game's design is actually from a gameplay perspective than anything. Where you find items is heavily reliant on how the loot would affect your gameplay (strong heals, strong weapons, situational items) and how far into the game you are as well. They just put in some text that COULD amount to a story and the fanbase takes care of that nicely. The devs mainly just want to make sure you don't get certain items in the wrong time in terms of game progression and try to make them drop at spots that could sort of make sense lore-wise.
On another note.
Soul of Cinder is a dedication to the PLAYER and the OG boss for added nostalgia.
It's fanservice, and a damn nice one at that.
>Gwyn's theme in the second phase
I almost teared up.
Reminder that Usurpation Ending is the LITERAL best ending of the game and that Kaathe was right all along!
>>335940589
Would be pretty cool,.
One giant scheming soul monster with snakes for tentacles.
Doesn't that stuff with the Untended Graves work better if you consider it a past version of "our Firelink", set in the time when fire was almost completely out (more so than even today), Iudex having woken up too late and Ludleth deciding to link the fire on his own?
>>335940742
Witch of Izalith as Bed of Chaos was probably ten times more powerful than she was originally.
Nito was only slightly weaker.
Gwyn was fucked.
Manus was ten times more powerful than he was originally.
Artorias was fucked.
Smough was as powerful as he always was.
Seath was ten times more powerful than he was originally.
Gwyndolin was as powerful as he always was.
Priscilla was as powerful as she always was.
Etc.
>>335940727
I'm pretty sure Untended Graves is Lothric's Firelink, judging by Champion Gundyr's boss soul description. And the fact that we, the player, awake in our own grave when the bell tolls.
>>335940596
Yeah, Ludleth obviously has something to do with the Dark Firelink or at least knows something about it, though I don't think he's some sort of time lord illusionist like some idiots do. However the Dark Firelink does indeed happen in the past since your bloodsign in Untended Graves also appears in the current same place, plus Gundyr's armor description mentions that an unknown warrior (the player) beat him.
Like you said the Firekeeper mentions Ludleth knows something about Firekeepers, and when you find the Firekeeper Eyes and go to Ludleth before giving them to the Firekeeper he says something along the lines of "You found her, didn't you?", meaning he probably knew the dead Firekeeper in question.
>>335924052
>Untended graves isn't Ludleths firelink, it's Lothric's firelink
it can be both famalamadingdong
>Firelink shrine gets all prepped for Lothric's arrival
>he fucks off to go chill in the Abyss instead
>nobody links it
>place falls into the Abyss
>Gundyr arrives too late to save it
>Ludleth has to link it in Lothric's place
Ludleth personally knew the dead firekeeper in the Untended Graves, he states that he and those around him tried everything they could to save her from the dark visions that the eyes brought her
>>335940451
Yeah I do know that. If you wanted to give it a "'''''''''lore reason'''''''''''' though you have to embellish that.
Most of Dark Souls is just gameplay-based design choices. The Lore is an afterthought but here we are, discussing lore in a game that has anything but.
>>335940948
Well, there's no reason to believe Witch of Izalith was any less powerful before her transformation.
>>335940948
>Nito was only slightly weaker
>The power of his soul is so great that it satiates the Lordvessel, despite the fact that much of its energy has already been offered to death -- Lord Soul
seems like Nito was significantly depowered by the time you fight him, since he had to consciously expend his own power to keep Death running properly. He can't even walk properly, and his death miasma isn't an OHKO like it should be
Can anyone help me with Greirat?
>Sent him before talking to Onion Cook in the kitchen.
>Went to talk to Onion Cook afterwards.
>Accidentally found my way to "Irythyll Dungeons".
>Killed Anthony Sullyvan but died a few times prior.
>Activated Sullyvan bonfire and returned to shrine.
>He's not there.
Where did I mess up? This is beyond stressful.
>>335940948
>Witch of Izalith
No, she became a defenseless bug, in her prime,she burnt Archtrees and Dragons to ashes, when you fight her she's reduced to making the ground collapse despite you being in a relatively tiny room
>Nito
Sucked off by Pinwheel for years and was just awoken from his sleep
>Manus
Literally a mad ape desperatly searching for his pendant
>Smough
A punk compared to the original Lords Souls owners
>Seath
Literally drove himself mad
>>335941186
>Witch of Izalith as Witch of Izalith
>Makes dragons sweat with a few infernos, with the help of all her daughters
>Witch of Izalith as Bed of Chaos
>Creates an entire race of extremely powerful demons which are mostly responsible for the downfall of the entire kingdom, and a flame to rival the first flame which only begins to fade many many many thousands of years later
>>335941318
Check the sewer area before the kitchen, with all the water centipede chicks, his ashes are there if you fucked up
>>335940693
Since Ansem is apperently everyone, yes.
>>335940874
Depends. If you go the Darkwraith route it will become a hell hole of right makes right.
For all i know Oceiros could be calling to his missing son.....or maybe he watched this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YyG5D68ags
and went gay for revolver ocelote
>>335941504
>if you let the Age of Dark fall, the world will become a hellhole of might makes right
Londor seems more civilized then that, and besides, that still sounds better than whatever bullshit that Aldrich/Sullivan and Oceiros cooked up
>>335941449
I think you understimate just how powerful dragons are. And consider the possibility that after she used her soul to create demons, it left her weak and pitiful, literally turning into an insect
>>335941051
So why is it his and not Lothric's, despite the fact that he says that when he became lord, he linked the fire? Despite the fact that Untended Graves is clearly a Firelink that never got linked? Despite the fact that Champ's soul clearly states that no one showed up to perform their duty, so he waited the entire time? Despite the fact that this Firelink is located next to Lothric castle, and contains a ring from Gwynevere, the Queen of Lothric?
There's nothing that specifically states it's Ludleth's Firelink. All we know is that he's familiar with the eyes. There is plenty of evidence that this is Lothric's Firelink, but there's no evidence that Ludleth ever performed his duty (which he states he did).
>>335941382
>No, she became a defenseless bug
No, she's a bug inside a giant demon-spawning chaos tree that spans the entirety of Lost Izalith
Gwyn is technically just a squishy little brain, that doesn't invalidate the power of the brain's casing
>Sucked off by Pinwheel for years and was just awoken from his sleep
If Pinwheel gained that much power from him then Pinwheel would be stronger. Pinwheel's a little bitch. He's a mosquito.
>Literally a mad ape desperatly searching for his pendant
Doesn't mean he's not probably more powerful than Gwyn at that point. This is the bearer of the Dark Soul we're talking about here. He created something which has literally altered the natural order of the world.
>Literally drove himself mad
Madness doesn't make you any less powerful. Big Hat Logan is at his strongest when he's butt naked throwing crystal dragon breath at you.
>>335940874
Kaathe almost fucked everything up though, if Chosen Undead had become the Dark Lord then Humanity is fucked, Ashen One having the First Flame is only reason everything will work out for Humanity
Can someone spoonfeed me pontiff lore ?
>>335941450
Yeah but that's exactly what I did 1 to 1, what Iisted.
The onion bro is on the prowl already. He has his suit.
If he's dead even after following what everybody says and "not" to talk to Sqiegward until I send Greirat, then this game's quest system is beyond absurd.
>No clear determined route showing which way is the dungeon, you just end up there.
>The third bonfire of the area has a route to the dungeon itself, and you'd think this is the way to the boss.
>Entering the dungeon is the death flag for this particular character.
This is stressful game design.
Where does this "Ludleth/Lothric Firelink" shit comes from? It's only one Firelink you moron, you don't get a new one everytime you burn yourself to ashes.
>>335941853
Because Kaathe doesn't give a shit about humanity.
How dense are you nigga?
why can we hear a baby cry when fighting oceiros
is the baby actually there but invisible? makes no sense
if so, how?
how can we hear babby
>>335941985
I'll be honesty, its been a long time since I got that ending so I don't really remember it or Kaathe all that much
>>335942093
Priscilla's a Seath-flavored dragon crossbreed and she can go invisible.
Connect the dots.
>>335941774
>All that headcanon
Yeah ok.
If you watch Dark Souls intro cinematic before looking at the actual Lords Souls bearers you fight in-game and think the latters even reach the same powerlevel as the formers you're an idiot
>>335942140
makes no sense though, he keeps his arms in a way to hold a baby, yet says the line "dear little ocelotte where have you gone?"
where is babby?
>>335939031
And even snider if you wear Smough's.
>>335942175
>If you watch Dark Souls intro cinematic before looking at the actual Lords Souls bearers you fight in-game and think the latters even reach the same powerlevel as the formers you're an idiot
>DARK SOULS INTRO CINEMATIC
>FEATURING
>GWYN THROWING A SUNLIGHT SPEAR
>WITCH OF IZALITH CASTING FIRESTORM
>NITO CASTING MIASMA
>SEATH CASTING REEEEE
Truly, the difference is night and day.
>>335928147
>>>335934229
pretty sure there's a piece of lore that states that Gertrude was rumored to be a daughter of the queen of lothric
Gertrude = Rosaria.
>>335941882
Sith Pope is Pope of the Deep. He's pals with Aldrich. Aldrich being the cannibal he is wants to eat a god because it mite b fun. Sith Pope hooks him up with Gwyndolin. He also has a bunch of loyal knights who show signs of feral corruption on the same level as Artorias (Dancer, Vordt, wandering Irithyll knights, Pontiff guard).
His fire sword is made of the Profaned Flame, which could mean anything. He also apparently can use powers of the abyss by giving himself wings, making a clone, Dark Lurker stuff.
>>335942140
The baby is not invisible stop saying that jesus christ.
>>335942093
The baby doesn't exist. You can literally hear Oceiros doing pretend crying to himself outside of the fog wall. He's making the sounds to himself. The actual crying you hear inside is just a mockup of what he's actually thinking. It's the same reason you hear him beckoning Ocelotte, despite the fact he's in a life or death moment with you. He's fucking delusional (AS IS SAID HE'S GONE INSANE BY HIS SOUL) because he does the same research that Logan and Seath did (TWO ALSO VERY INSANE PEOPLE)
The fucking baby is not invisible. It's fucking nonexistant. Jesus christ LITERALLY NO OTHER DRAGON CAN TURN INVISIBLE, WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP SAYING IT'S PRISCILLA 2.0.
>>335941882
Normal sorcerer found the Profaned Flame. Got super powerful and became pontiff or Aldricht's religion, ensuring him the support of its followers and a way to kill the gods he hated.
Gave berzerkers rings to any knight that could challenge him so they'll go mad and act as guardians beasts
>>335940948
The With of Izalith was bound by her daughters staves. As per law of pyromancy they would be weaker then her.
Nitos Miasma isn't instantly gibbing you like it was with immortal dragons.
Gwyn is always fucked, I mean the dude was grey when he led his knights.
Manus was drained of humanity. It's literally what Kaathe told Oolacile sorcerors to do and led to him succumbing to the urges brought by his, already fragmented, Lord Soul. If the Guy was conscious and in possession of all his power he would similarily instagib you by just draining ALL of you.
Artorias was on suicide mission, but became an 'incarnation of the Abyss' as told by Miyazaki himself
Smough is also an ass.
Seath was also mad as stated by Logan and later presented by him. Also Man-scorpion Tark. Don't know about how, or even if that effected him in anyway. Also his kind of immortality didn't empower him perse. Though him failing because ONE dumb minion took a nap is pretty mean.
Gwyndolin was, arguably even more powerful if we go by the series' themes. He took the Throne of Anor Londor after all. Though keeping up the pretense of something not ment to continue might've taken a toll, even on a god. Though, that discussion is pretty meaningless since optional bosses are canonically alive as mention further above.
>>335941690
what makes you think that you're still in the present when you visit the Untended Graves? Time is convoluted and this wouldn't be the first time that you accidentally wander into the past.
Furthermore, the description of Gundyr's gear states that he showed up too late to prevent the Fire from fading. He saw that he was too late to fetch the Lords, as the flame had already faded, and stood watch.
Also, geographically speaking, Firelink and Dark Firelink are in the exact same spot. Pic related, it's the view that you get when you exit firelink shrine. Notice Lothric Tower in the background, the top of it is where you fight the Lothric Bros. Both Firelink and Dark Firelink are the same place, just in different points in time.
Also, there is far, far more evidence than Ludleth "just being familiar with the eyes." He explicitly states that he tried everything he could to save the Dark Firelink firekeeper, and that he failed, and that her death served as his motivation for Linking the Flame. The power for which he got through sheer willpower alone. Try talking to him after collecting the eyeballs and see for yourself. Ludleth was the one who linked Dark Firelink, whether that firelink was MEANT for Lothric is a different story entirely.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtoGYMEHJnc
Best theme in the game. Debate me.
>>335941449
Demons existed before, as provided by firesage demon
>>335942248
There's a socery that allows you to create a fake sound off in the distance to fuck with people. Oceiros was probably magicking some baby noises because he was bat-shit insane.
Is he the maddest of men?
>>335941882
Sullivan saw the Profaned Flame, and got the motivation to become pope. He kitted out the soldiers of Irithyll with the Profaned Flame, and armed them all with Dark magic.
It's reasonable to assume that he's the reason why the Deep's teachings became infected with Dark worship, and why all of it's clergy fell to the Abyss.
He sent all of his political enemies and descendants of the Old Gods out to their doom by making them exiled Outrider Knights, fated to become mindless beasts.
He fed Gwyndolin to Aldrich (who had returned, planning on waiting for the Age of the Deep Sea aka the Age of Dark), and protects Aldrich so that no Unkindled can come and claim his ashes.
Sullivan wants the Age of Dark to come, and corrupted the Church and sided with Aldrich to do so.
>>335942521
That ain't sillyman's theme.
>>335942521
rebuttal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwFA2VdCGcY
>>335942472
>The With of Izalith was bound by her daughters staves.
wat?
>Artorias was on suicide mission, but became an 'incarnation of the Abyss' as told by Miyazaki himself
Artorias is a sword and shield fighter. When you fight him, one of his arms is broken and he's already thrown away his shield. He is also potentially using the wrong hand to wield his sword.
>Manus was drained of humanity. It's literally what Kaathe told Oolacile sorcerors to do and led to him succumbing to the urges brought by his, already fragmented, Lord Soul. If the Guy was conscious and in possession of all his power he would similarily instagib you by just draining ALL of you.
Now THAT'S headcanon. The abyss is concentrated humanity, mate, he was the exact opposite of drained. Manus as he was originally was just the pygmy, some unassuming normal-sized dude. He was apparently really gentle and kind too. Bet your ass Manus, Father of the Abyss is several hundred times more powerful than the Furtive Pygmy.
What connection between Lothric kingdom and Irythill? These cities exist at the same timeline, and I`ve found strange that power hungry Darth Pope didn`t try to conquer Lothric.
>>335941610
Sullivan is a madman. Also FURYPRIEST.
Aldrich is literal sludge and behaving as such.
Oceiros has a case of crystal madness.
EVERYONES picture of the future is fucked up, even the firekeeper's.
The only person I can sympathize with is apperently teaching you humanity brand magics and only because she doesn't seem to care at all after being locked up and violated (multiple meanings, please guys) for god knows how long.
Wait wait wait, what are those dragon things that shoot at you during the Dragon armor fight? Never was shown again
>>335942574
Firesage Demon was the first demon, but he didn't predate the Chaos Flame.
He was around before Witch of Izalith was engulfed by the Chaos Flame. He wasn't around before the Chaos Flame existed.
>>335942248
Oceiros is mad and Ocelotte doesn't actually exist, at least in the physical sense of the word. Ocelotte is actually part of the King, an alternate personality of sorts. The King looks like a dragon, Ocelotte is supposedly a "child of dragons", ergo Consumed King = Ocelotte.
In the first phase he thinks he is holding a baby, yet he is also unable to see Ocelotte and calls to him. In the second phase he goes completely feral, meaning the Ocelotte personality has taken control.
>>335939963
Why not use Piss4 controller on PC?
Gimme a ballpark estimate of the time between the Lords awakening and our character's awakening.
>>335942506
Name one other time you wander into the past that doesn't involve a portal or cutscene transition. (Bloodborne DLC doesn't count, not same universe)
Furthermore the very fact that he says he links the flame and the fire is very clearly not linked should be all the proof you need that Ludleth never linked the fire there.
Also why is Gundyr not dead? Did Ludleth just sneak around him? And why does Gundyr's soul say that no one ever came? You can't say that Gundyr was just sleeping. The very moment we show up, he gets pissed and starts fighting you.
I don't deny they're in the same location geographically, that makes perfect sense to me (also I'm pretty sure they're just coded the same way. You can jump on the tree branch next to the tower to get onto the roof and get behind the shrine, and you can loot chests there which will cause the ones in real firelink to be looted or vice versa).
Regardless, the very fact that the fire is not linked should be proof enough that Ludleth never linked there.
>>335942335
i laughed out lout at SEATH CASTING REEEE
Again guys, the DEEP is NOT the Abyss
>>335942889
They're like Rome and the Vatican city. Irythill is part of Lothric kingdom but the Pontiff is the pope and de facto ruler of it and Anor Londo.
>>335943060
A month.
Long enough for them to wake up, decide that linking the fire is fucking stupid, and fuck off to wherever their home is.
>>335943060
a day
>>335930628
I think it's more that he was a dumb ass who tried was lead to consume his final boss for more power before it back fired and made him a lord of cinder.
>>335943035
Yup, as such the creation of demons as race can not be credited to the bed of chaos. It was inherent to the lord soul of the witch and that got out of control... is this the same thing that happened to manus when Oolacile under Kaathe fucked up?
>>335943113
Yes it is.
>Abyss is associated with 'gnawing' particularly with firekeepers who literally say 'shit man this gnawing sure is annoying'
>Deep magic includes:
>Gnaw
>Better version of Gnaw
>Variants of Gnaw
Predictions for the DLC?
>first takes place in Carthus
>second takes place in Londor
>Gertrude is like Ludwig/Artorias
>>335943113
The deep seems more analogous to the bed of chaos or the profaned flame. A cheap man made copy of the real thing (the abyss/dark).
>>335941610
>that still sounds better than whatever bullshit that Aldrich/Sullivan
Lol
>Reduces undead curse build-up and cures hollowing.
>Inhabitants of Londor, the land of Hollows, use this secret treasure to feign normalcy.
>Occasionally, a Hollow fools even himself, and turns on his own kind.
And we heard about world that Aldrich/Sullivan preparing for
Aldrich wasn't a good person, but he still linked fire to save world from darkness, so I'm sure that deep is less shithole compared to the world of serpents(dark ending) too
>>335943036
That. Right there.
He calls out to himself not to fear because he has gone the way of the dragons and as such is trying to invoke the beast in himself. But as the enemies on the road of sacrifice he ends up fighting like a scared, cornered animal.
>>335943013
They're tree dragons.
Sulivan is the Tree pope.
Which means Iriythll is full of tree worshippers...hmmmm.
>>335943339
A L D I A
L
D
I
A
AND A FUCKING PRIMORDIAL SERPENT TO WRECK
>>335932215
He was clever and the other lords were desprite
>>335943339
nmj,sdvgfnj,dgfnjkdgfnjkdgfnjkdgfnjkdgfdgf45645h
>>335943339
>Gertrude is like Ludwig/Artorias
Gertrude is Rosaria.
>Daughter of Gwynevere
Check
>Divine
Check
>Mute and blind
Check
The Artorias/Ludwig of the Dark Souls 3 DLC will be the Bearer of the Curse and/or Aldia from Dark Souls 2.
The Manus will be the Primordial Serpents.
>>335943198
At the very least long enough for Ludleth to reach his throne and cut/singe his own legs off to keep him from leaving his post.
>>335943580
Ludleth lost his legs when he linked the flame.
Firekeeper probably carried him to his throne bridal style. Or he crawled.
>>335943540
>>335943514
I would love Aldia to be in the DLC, but I doubt it
Would shit my pants if I came up to a bonfire in the middle of one of the DLC's and he came up
>>335943013
They're called Pilgrim Butterflies. The name is specifically stated by the Dragonslayer Armor Soul.
I believe they're "hatched" from the dead Pilgrims you see all over Lothric. Like, that shell on their back? Think cocoon.
It makes a lot more sense than "they're the undead stuck on trees that grew wings"
Is there a lore reason for why dogs are so damn annoying?
>>335943329
http://www.ign.com/wikis/dark-souls-3/Deep_Gem
>There is a darkness that lies beyond human ken.
>>335943367
It apperently is a resting place for horrible things but was once peaceful
>>335943060
900 million trillion years
>>335943728
Rabies.
>>335934494
I personally like to think that Nameless King sided with the dragons due to his love for Priscilla. Yorshka being their daughter.
>>335943679
Really? None of the other lords got fucked up as a result of linking the flame (Lothric's mute and crippled but apparently that is his brother's doing). I assumed he did it himself (or allowed someone else to do it) due to the blood/ash marks on the piece of cloth on his throne.
>>335943781
>There is a darkness that lies beyond human ken.
Apparently not since there's an entire fucking Cathedral of humans that know about it.
The abyss is 'beyond human ken' by that standard too. Just because we know all about it doesn't mean it's common knowledge in-universe.
>>335943339
I'm going to flip my shit if the DLC doesn't explain Primodial Serpents' motivations or have Aldia and DaS2 stuff like "curse of life = curse of want" in one form or another.
Explaining the Hollow Lord or Ludleth and his relation to Firekeeper Eyes and Untended Graves would also be fantastic.
>>335943726
>They bore large covers on their backs to ensure that they would not become seedbeds for spreading darkness.
So they are abyss creatures? Doesn't look like that
>>335943540
I need some sources on Gertrude. Like EVERYTHING.
>>335943065
>why is Gundyr not dead
he is dead, he's a reanimated Abyss golem like the two dragons in Lothric castle (at least he is when you fight him as Iudex Gundyr). He also doesn't drop a soul, because again, you stole it from him in the past
>Champion Gundyr was bested by an unknown warrior... -- Gundyr's set
aka you
You travel to Dark Firelink after Ludleth's fire keeper died, but before he linked the flame in response.
If Dark Firelink is Lothric's Firelink, then why is it that you don't see the Abyss from the High Wall or Lothric Castle? It should be right fucking there. Why is it that in Dark Firelink, the bell never rang, and noone heard a bell ring, but the Bell objectively rang in the outside world?
>>335943915
Some people are saying they wear them to prevent themselves from turning into pilgrim butterflies.
>>335943370
I'd take an Abyss-fueld world of STR over the outrageous cruelty of the Church of the Deep any day of the week
>>335943889
But the Abyss, as provided by Darkdriver What's-his-name, has no larger ill effects on humans. Those who worship the deep need to shield themselves with a miracle. Though I'm starting to think they don't worship it as much as they tell of it's inevitable coming and, like Aldrich, try to prepre for it.
>>335943882
>None of the other lords got fucked up as a result of linking the flame
Well Aldrich is a slime monster, he can't get much more fucked up.
Yhorm is a giant, even the first flame can't fuck him up physically, although it may have hollowed him.
>(Lothric's mute and crippled but apparently that is his brother's doing).
Lorian is mute and crippled. Lothric's fine, just sickly.
>I assumed he did it himself
One of his dialogues is
'I linked the flame. You want proof? Look at my fucked up body mate'
>>335930407
Are you serious? The one you find in a place you go to by meditating is the fake.
>>335943882
he was probably physically deformed, he only linked the flame when no-one else would, as a last resort. he was never "intended" to do it
>>335943829
I thought it was implied somewhere that Priscilla was his daughter
>>335944152
>But the Abyss, as provided by Darkdriver What's-his-name, has no larger ill effects on humans.
ahaha
AHAHAHA
AHAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHA
WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU THINK ALL THOSE BUGHEADED FUCKS IN OOLACILE ARE YOU BRAINDEAD RETARD?
WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENED TO BEATRICE?
OR THE FOUR KINGS?
jesus christ you niggas be retarded
>>335943781
>ken
>knowledge of imagination
"the truest extent of Darkness is darker than your wildest dreams" -- Deep Gem
wow much hidden meanings, such insight
>>335943901
>I'm going to flip my shit if the DLC doesn't explain Primodial Serpents' motivations
Isn't it obvious?
Primordial Serpents are native to the Dark. That's why their necks stretch into the blackness.
Right now they're cooped up in the corners of the world.
They want the age of dark to come so they can have the whole world to themselves.
>>335944159
>'I linked the flame. You want proof? Look at my fucked up body mate'
I thought he was just referencing the fact he looks like a piece of burnt wood.
>>335943060
I would say the exact same time. It's the bell (of awakening?) that woke up the lot of ye. No reason for some of them to wake later than others
>>335943370
Aldrich was forced to link the fire, he didn't do it out of his own free will;
>>335923515
I thought the angels were the hollowed dragons flying in the sky
>>335944640
says who?
>>335944554
The unkindled don't need to be woken if the lords of cinder do their job. The unkindled waking up had to have occured after the lords decided to turn their back on their duty.
>>335943901
>Primodial Serpents' motivations
They can travel freely in the abyss while it will fuck everyone else
It will be basically their age, so they trying to trick retards like this >>335944149 to
unleash it
>>335944669
Honestly they probably just could have put a tasty looking demigod next to the first kiln and that's all the convincing aldritch would have needed.
>>335944679
the Bell woke the Lords of Cinder up in the first place, go re-watch the intro. A shitload of Undead awakened along with them as Unkindled, as a back-up plan in case the Lords abandoned their thrones. Who set this whole system up is a mystery
>>335942435
>>335942775
>>335942447
Thank you
This guy gets stuff done
Knowing all this and reminiscing about the fight gives it a whole new dimension
It's a shame such great story wasn't narrated in the game,to meet the souls community's "story hidden in item descriptions is so cool" meme
>Dark Souls 3 DLC unlocks a new, unprecedented ending
>You can trigger a new Age of Ancients
>To do so you must consume every boss soul in the game, becoming powerful enough to split your soul into four pieces and in the process create a new set of Lord Souls to be discovered sometime in the future
Yes please.
>>335943941
What he said does make some sense, the description of the miracle "Pillars of Light" mentions Gertrude being mute and blind and the description of Rosaria's fingers covenant thingamajinga states that its members gather tongues to comfort their voiceless goddess. The cage in the archives with the feathers and the aforementioned miracle in a body could've held a golden winged knight captive instead of Gertrude.
>>335944727
>implying that you can't have civilization in the Abyss
hollow pride world wide!
>>335924052
Some fat japanese guy jerking off to loli wrote some random shit to fill his quota. Doesn't know where the fuck to go with the story. Keeps he vague cause he know how fans are, Make up their own shit as they go anyway.
>There is no story.
>>335944760
Isn't there a body of a firekeeper at the firelink belltower (where you pick up the firekeeper's soul). Some people are saying that firekeeper rang the bell and was killed for it.
>>335943829
Yorshka says calls Gwyndolin her brother. Nameless King is Gwyndolin's brother. I don't think his daughter would call her uncle her brother.
>>335943941
http://darksouls3.wiki.fextralife.com/Divine+Pillars+of+Light
http://darksouls3.wiki.fextralife.com/Bountiful+Light
http://i.imgur.com/kudTnxL.jpg
>>335944059
That doesn't explain why you randomly travel back in time just by walking past Oceiros. You can't explain that away with "the flow of time is convoluted." There has never been another example of randomly traveling backwards in time in the Souls series without there being a clear transition.
Honestly the more I think about it, the more I'm sure it's just a coding thing more than anything else. Dark Firelink has to look the exact same because they already have one designed. That's why it has a throne in it for Ludleth, who by your theory, was not a Lord of Cinder yet. That's also why if you die in either firelink, you can reclaim your bloodstain in the other. That's also why if you loot a chest in one of them, you loot it in the other. It's not because you're traveling backwards, it's just pure design limitations.
Which makes a hell of a lot more sense than "you traveled backwards at just the right time to clear the way for Ludleth to link the fire to a Shrine that has clearly been unlit for an incredibly long time".
>>335944669
Retards think that "Aldrich was made a Lord of Cinder because of his might, not because of his piety" means he was forced
They totally miss the point that you can play as a total dick and still link the fire, because abyss is shithole
>>335932697
So Heide's Tower of Flame wasn't a sunken Anor Londo?
So I have a question about all this:
Who is Solaire?
I remember all the 'He's the son of Gwyn!' Stuff and all the theories about how important he is, but I always sort of thought he was just a normal guy, is he revealed to be anything more?
Pretty sure his armor description said something along the lines of him just being a normal man
>>335945045
Could have been. Irthyill is a snowy Anor Londo.
Anor Londo basically does whatever the fuck it wants over the centuries.
>>335944251
Why would the flame choose him to be revived, then? It could have picked any other badass dude.
>>335945082
Just a strong kind hearted guy. He may have had some affinity for NK but he wasn't a god in anyway whatsoever. From goes to extensive lengths in his armor description to say so.
>>335944903
i took yorshka's father gwyn sister gwynevere talk as a religious thing, not literal. like it was their titles. she just speaks so formally, idk.
>>335944510
>>335944727
>Isn't it obvious?
It isn't obvious. In DaS1 Kaathe (and I assume all other serpents apart from Frampt as well) does indeed want you to unleash the Age of Dark, but in DaS3 the Age of Dark and Hollow Lord endings are separate.
Instead of having Yuria tell you to end the Fire, Yuria and Kaathe's interests are in the birth of a new Hollow Lord. The serpents, or at least Kaathe are supposedly mankind's allies, even though the "Age of Man" would most likely mean everyone turned into mindless hollows. Kaathe isn't technically lying because mindless hollows will be the master race due to lack of Dragons or Gods.
I think both Frampt and Kaathe's thing is that they never tell outright lies, they just omit things.
>Frampt: Oh Chosen Undead go link the Fire and succeed Gwynby the way you'll burn for eternity
>Kaathe: kill the old Gods and unleash the Age of Manby the way everyone will be hollows lol
>>335945082
No, he's literally a normal dude. The "son of Gwyn" stuff was partly a meme, party an explanation for who the son of Gwyn was, despite the fact we knew at one point it was supposed to be Andre.
For what it's worth, it's all the more impressive that a normal dude wearing a bucket doing Y poses made it as far as he did, so that's cool too.
>>335945232
Good, his character is so much better as just a normal man who still has hope than it would be if he was conveniently a god
>>335945243
Mindless hollows then come across insight and true era of humanity begins.
Cue Bloodborne opening
Did i fuck over the firekeeper by giving her the eyes and not linking the fire?
Tell me i didnt.
I only wanted her to be happy.
>>335945240
>i took yorshka's father gwyn sister gwynevere talk as a religious thing
It probably is, but Gwyndolin being at least her adopted brother is undeniable. There are many mentions of it.
>>335945418
>a person with eyes
>being happy in a world full of darkness
>However faith in divine messengers is considered heresy in Lothric and isn't recognized by any of the thre pillars of king's rule (which include High Priestess, Scholars and Knights), that is why Heavenly Daughter Gertrude was imprisoned in a lofty cell at the Grand Archives of Lothric Castle.
>faith in divine messengers is considered heresy
>statues of fabulous angelic snakes everywhere
>princes use angelic spells with feathery particles etc. There also feathers in their bedroom.
>winged knights
I can`t understand it.
>>335945243
>everyone turned into mindless hollows.
Yuria explicitely says, "A hollow need not be mad", if you attack her before the wedding ceremony. Being hollow is the true state of man. The three original lords and the pygmy were hollows before finding the lord souls. You don't necessarily go mad from being hollow.
>>335945082
He was just a normal dude who really REALLY liked the Sun
>>335945170
The flame was getting increasingly desperate so it can't be picky.
>It could have picked any other badass dude
That's the thing, all those other badass dudes fucked off to do their own shit.
>>335945510
But she talks of the embers in the distance.
>>335944903
>there has never been an example of someone just walking through time accidentally
Logan travels over 100 years through time to talk to you in DaS1 (unless you buy into the idea that he was trapped in that cage for over a century without hollowing, which I doubt)
Furthermore, regardless of whether or not such a concept has been explicitly shown, it's been theoretically possible ever since Solaire stated that "time is convoluted, with heroes centuries old phasing in and out"
The precedent is there, and it's internally consistent with the series' lore. More evidence:
>Fragment of the coiled sword of a bonfire which served its purpose long ago. -- Coiled sword fragment
>served its purpose long ago
>long ago
the coiled sword in Dark Firelink is in the past, since all item descriptions in these games are written from the perspective of the "present"
the only thing that I will agree with you on is that the whole looting chests thing is laziness, since IIRC the only way to get to the chests in Dark Firelink is to do the glitch where you get onto Firelink's roof without using the belltower key
>Abyss magic is black with a white aura like Humanity
>Deep magic is dark blue with a light blue aura
NANI?
>>335945560
My friend have you talked to Based Ludleth about this
Those eyes bring nothing but sorrow to her
>>335945170
flame doesn't revive shit, the Bell just revives the last 5 or 6 guys that linked the flame and gives them fresh souls somehow
>it's magic I don't got to explain shit
>>335945553
>The three original lords and the pygmy were hollows before finding the lord souls.
Correct, but they didn't seem particularly sentient or sane before finding the Lord Souls.
There's also a difference between just looking like a hollow and ACTUALLY being full hollow.
>>335945553
hollows are just people with no humanity, though in the in-universe culture of Lothric/Lordran/etc, people only call hollows with no sanity "hollows." they don't really care if you're beef-jerky or not, so long as you are lucid.
I'm 99% certain that Yuria is just trying to clear that misconception up
>>335945418
Kind of made her happy, since she wanted to basically reset the world and you've granted her wish.
She's 100% fucked though since the flame won't protect her from the monsters coming out of the abyss, unless you spend the rest of your eternal life protecting your waifu
>>335939243
The ornstein you fight in DaS is very much real. His soul is a sign of that.
The ornstein set you find after nameless king isn't the same ornstein you fought.
DaS treats every playthrough as a seperate timeline with summon signs letting you hop between them to help others. This is why you can kill the same boss multiple times. But what happens when someone doesnt defeat ornstein? Someone like the crestfallen that never fufills his duty as the chosen undead.
I think that the ornstein we find in 3 belonged in the world of CU that never fought him. Seeing that his trial would never happen, ornstein left the guard of anor londo in the hands of smough to go look for the nameless king.
>>335945669
after you give them to her, she says that she finds the Dark strangely alluring, but she can't quite say why. she's not that upset
>>335945562
How can the coiled sword fragment have served its purpose if, according to you, the time you're arriving in is between the time Lothric abandoned his duty and the time Ludleth decided to pick it up?
If anything, it would imply you've traveled way into the future after the world has gone dark and looted objects that have already served their purposes in the past.
>>335945669
>>335945510
So you.re telling me I brought misfortune upon the one person i ever cared about?
This is like Priscilla all over again.
>>335945917
Moth to a flame anon
Moth to a flame
>>335945875
>The ornstein you fight in DaS is very much real. His soul is a sign of that.
This has been deconfirmed by item descriptions. Your 'multiple worlds' theory is silly.
Dark Souls 3 does not take place in an alternate world to Dark Souls 1. All of the games take place in one world. Accept that Ornstein ebing real was retconned and let it go.
>>335945917
what, she begs you to kill her and take the eyes from here again
>>335945870
>unless you spend the rest of your eternal life protecting your waifu
So be it
>>335946021
lol at that heatsink
When is this Aldrich comic coming out, anyway?
>>335946021
Ludleth very specifically warns you about what giving her the eyes will entail,I don't know how "betrayal" would make her happy.
Even she calls it a betrayal
>>335945959
>Thrust into the shrine bonfire to restore its power and enable travel between bonfires. -- Coiled Sword
so long as someone did that and used it as a warp point, it's purpose was served
>it would imply that you've traveled way into the future
but then the handmaiden should have heard the Bell ring, it's what woke you up in the start of the game
can anyone verify the claims vaati makes here, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz8KJYpRh28 that aldrich is a metaphor for homosexuality and that dark souls 3, as a whole, has several homo erotic undertones?
>>335946123
only if you say no to her plan of putting the fire out since she's seen shit no firekeeper was meant to know.
>>335946123
no she doesn't, she tells you that if you change your mind and decide to not let the flame die, to kill her, since that will reset everything
>>335946118
And what item description is that?
If its a retcon then ornstein being an illusion is equally retarded.
>>335946229
but when you gather all of the Cinders, she prays that you "bring Death to the Old Gods of Lordran," regardless of whether or not you give her eyes, so at least some part of her wants the flame to fade
Why did Sirris want to kill her grandfather? Did he molest her as a kid?
>>335945553
I raise you Vendrick. His dialogue
>With Dark unshackled, a curse will be upon us… And men will take their true shape…
>One day fire will fade and dark will become a curse. Men will be free from death; left to wander eternally. Dark will again be ours and in our true shape. We can bury the false legends of yore. …only, is this our only choice?
Both Aldia and Vendrick talk about the cycle like neither linking the Fire, nor just saying fuck it and letting it die are good choices. Though I'm not sure what the Hollow Lord ending means to mankind as a whole. The undead curse, or hollowing happens because the true form of mankind is mindless hollows.
Linking the Fire: Everything goes back to "normal"
End of Fire: Everything goes pitch black and mankind will probably go hollow
Hollow Lord: The way I understood this was that usurping the Fire saves current hollows from insanity, but most likely dooms the rest of mankind somehow, simply because I'm assuming that there is not supposed to be one objective "good ending". The Londor Divine Braille Tome talks about "bringing salvation to hollows, but simultaneously dooming everything living" so my understanding was that Usurpation only saves Hollows.
>>335924052
>Thoughts?
Seems like Bloodborne's 'dreamlands' silliness, and I believe it.
I don't see what's so hard about having a Firelink that's literally linked to the other areas.
That said, what do you make of the room that you start out in the High Wall, with the altar containing bonfire swordthing?
>>335946479
I don't think she means that in a malicious way.
Like how Gwynevre and Frampt want you to slay Gwyn and link the fire yourself despite being close to him
Granting them death would be giving them peace, relieving them of their duty to guard the kiln of the first flame until someone else comes along to relink the fire
>>335946479
What the fuck are you talking about? How are you reading 'wants the flame to fade' out of 'bring death to the old gods of lordran'? You have to kill Gwyn to link the fire so those two things aren't even related.
But more importantly, that line is pretty much a leftover from cut content. You were probably supposed to do a boss rush on the four original lords at that point in order to reach the first flame.
>>335946531
My guess would be she promised him she would if he ever hollowed and went insane. Sort of like Yhorm and Seigward.
So, if being a Hollow is apparently such a sweet deal, why do all of the hollows in Londor spend so much time pretending to not be hollows with magic rings and shit? What does the Sable Church even teach? that Hollows are destined to rise up and claim their rightful place in the world, or something?
>>335932737
This sounds really wrong and stupid.
>>335946531
He went nuts and started invading people to steal their spines. Also hes a huge asshole who uses Warmth, thankfully hes too crazy to realize its been nerfed to hell.
>>335946229
It's kind of ambiguous whether the "betrayal" means her betraying her duty or that her duty was a massive farse to begin with.
>>335946263
Except it would imply that at some point someone got past Gundyr. By your logic, no one ever got past Gundyr until you (the player) came along.
Do you think Lothric and Gundyr were friends, and that Ludleth was a generic shopkeeper back in the day, chilling with the firekeeper and pals, until one day Lothric gave her Eyes, and Ludleth decided "enough is enough", left via the already planted coiled sword while Lothric dicked off in his castle, and then linked the fire himself?
Because you can't explain away everything with "the passage of time is convoluted". The item descriptions and existence of Gundyr just throws everything out of whack.
>>335942693
tfw porrnhub comment section is less cancerous than youtubes
>>335932737
>DS2 does not take place in Lordran
Yes it does.
It amazes me how quick you all are to take this as fact when the ONLY evidence for it is the Dragoncrest Ring, which... Actually further proves it IS Lordran if you have any reading comprehension whatsoever.
>>335946603
My guess with the lord of hollows ending is that you take the fire into yourself and possibly distribute a fraction of it to all hollows like the pygmy did with the dark soul. In this way hollows have both the dark soul and the flame and are made whole.
>>335946723
What sounds wrong and stupid?
>>335946212
Why people think that it's about Aldrich?
>>335946986
>Dark Souls 2 has 0 reused Dark Souls 1 areas
>Dark souls 3 has 3 reused Dark souls 1 areas
Firelink, Anor Londo, and Kiln all exist.
The fact that Drang armor and weapons are referred to as a separate land ("Drang Knights, proclaimed descendants from the land known for the legend of the Linking of the Fire.") is pretty indicative that DS2 does not, in fact, take place on top of Lordran.
>>335946848
No, nobody would have had to get past Gundyr to get to the old Firelink, because Gundyr didn't even show up in the first place until after the old Firelink had been consumed by the Abyss.
Gundyr showed up and saw that the Abyss had already taken the place over, that the bell wouldn't ring, and that the flame was extinguished and said "where is everyone? I guess I'm too late lol" the game explicitly states that he showed too late, and found the place already dark and deserted. for all we know he didn't know a single person who was supposed to be there, since they had already all left or died by the time he arrived. you're now fucking with the established chronology of dark firelink, here.
>>335934494
Gwindolyn addopted Yorshka at some point because she sais he took her into his care or somthing along the lines
Yorshka is most likely another one of those failures that was suppose to be dragons like you see in irityhll dungeon that Conssumed king tried to make.
>>335947141
Because there was a preview panel where a guy says 'Don't you recognize me, [female name]!? It's me, Aldrich!'
So, what are those endings about?
I mean, I didnt played the game yet, I wait for all DLC in one pack and such, but I heard that one is about showing your Firekeeper pair of eyes, allowing her to see "things that she should never see". And then she suggest you to get rid of Fire.
Is Dark Souls 3, sorry to use that term, "fedora game" or something? Because I remember that previous games was about Fire being source of life and man belonging both to Light and Darkness.
>>335946704
>why do all of the hollows in Londor spend so much time pretending to not be hollows with magic rings and shit?
Because the rest of the entire world wants them dead and gone.
>What does the Sable Church even teach?
Just that whole "Hollows are going to rule the world one day! One day a true undead will rise and become king of all things!" Kaathe said to you back in DS1
>>335946998
you turn the flame itself dark with the power of the Abyss, it's now an anti-flame that shines darkness instead of light
>>335947170
>Dark Souls 2 has 0 reused Dark Souls 1 areas
Oh wait, you're serious.
Let me laugh even harder.
Also your Drang armor description does not refer to it as a seperate land. It refers to it as a land. You could use the exact same wording to refer to Lordran and it would still make sense.
Like eight different characters in Dark Souls 2 suggest that you're in Lordran. Not to mention that ALL FOUR LORD SOULS are in Drangleic in reincarnated forms.
I guess they just blew downwind?
>>335947234
Is that Solaire down in the corner? When did he ever have a following like that?
>>335947234
No matter how much I want, I won't comment on this
Didn't read the thread. Did you notice sky doesn't change in Firelink Shrine?
>>335947234
>>335947372
holy hell this is awful
>>335947293
I haven't tried the Hollow ending yet, is that literally what happens?
That sounds cringeworthy.
>>335933676
Where do you find her or her corpse?
>>335947141
>>335947234
>>335947372
This shit will never not be stupid.
>>335947268
>Hollows are going to rule the world one day*!
*only we're all going to be mutated into hideous monsters by the Abyss, attacking everything on sight!
never trust Serpent's lies
>>335946821
Perception does mean all when it comes to interpreting lore
But given what we know about firekeeping as a duty it's not considered very bad,the Anor Londo firekeeper in DaS1 seems unfettered by it
Then there are characters who actively wish to be fire keepers like Irina of Carim
And it may be ambiguous from the Fire keepers PoV but from Ludleth's PoV it does seem like a betrayal of Duty
So it's highly unlikely that her duty itself is a betrayal
Can someone please explain Aldia AND how he could potentially be used in DaS3?
Didn't he pretty much find a way to break out of the cycle in 2? idr
>>335947458
No, you just take the First Flame for yourself, basically becoming a god and go off to make Londor Great Again
>>335947293
I thought it was a more yin-yang type of thing. Everyone has a dark soul and a flame. They can sustain their own flame with their own soul and their own soul is sustained by their own flame.
Dark Souls story:
Link the Fire XD or don't fugg D: D: D:
That is literally all the plot across all three games.
>>335947184
>old Firelink had been consumed by the Abyss
Where does it suggest that it was consumed by the abyss? Old shrine maiden seems to suggest that the fire simply fades over time and that the firekeepers are trapped within the shrine until they die along with it.
>>335947682
Not true.
People like Artorias have no darkness (Humanity) in them. They just have Lord Soul fragments. Elizabeth says this outright.
That's why Artorias gets so fucked up in the abyss. If he had Humanity, he'd probably have destroyed Manus with no problems, but he got swarmed like a foreign bacteria in a bloodstream.
>>335927638
His name was Faraam, as indicative of the Faraam set's description and the description of his soul.
My Chosen Undead listen this fucker and didn`t link the flame in DS1. Why he isn`t Lord of Hollows now?
>>335947889
Because Kaathe played you, faggot.
>>335947889
Some bumblefuck wandered in after you left and linked the flame, probably by accident. So much for your age of darkness, fucker.
>>335947682
The Dark Soul shit only applies do mankind, everyone else like Gwyn and co. are "pure" meaning they have fragments of the Lord Souls
>>335947215
You can:
1. Link the fire
2. Team up with a new character who is a servant of Kaathe and become the new "Monarch of Londor" or Lothric, can't rememeber. Effectively the dark lord ending
3. Go to a secret area and acquire Eyes of the Fire Keeper, which, as you said, shows her things she should never see. She does not suggest to get rid of fire, in fact, she asks for the opposite. She says that as a firekeeper it's her duty to see the fire die out with you, but she asks that if you ever have a change of heart, to just murder her and take the eyes back. You can then summon her after the final boss and she'll take the fire and watch it die out with you
4. During ending 3, you have control of your character for the last 10~ seconds. You can attack the firekeeper while she's holding the fire and you'll steal it for yourself. This ending is rather ambiguous. You end up "presenting" the fire to the sun (which is covered by a dark sign), so it doesn't seem to be a dark lord ending, but a sort of selfish ending where you take the fire for yourself? Again, really ambiguous
Aldia, in DS2, implies that the world is constantly teetering between an Age of Fire and an Age of Dark, and it's generally horrible for everyone involved and the world would be better off if it went back to the Age of Grey. So ending 3 is basically "kill the fire and reset the world", but it's implied the fire will come back eventually.
>>335947889
He is a Hollow Lord
Didn't you see the ending cutscene where Kaathe bows to you like a subservient primoridal bitchass pussy snek should
>>335947667
then why is the first flame still burning in the background as you walk away? pic related, the First Flame bonfire is still lit
>>335947835
>Artorias
By everyone I mean every human/hollow. Artorias was pals with Gwyn and ilk so his soul was a fraction of the original light soul, so he wasn't 'human'. 'Humanity' is just a fraction of the dark soul.
>>335947215
Please respond.
>>335948038
Are there any examples of the opposite kind of pure (just Dark, no Lord Soul) besides Manus?
>>335947889
Because canonical CU wasn't braindead retarded
Found one more page
>>335930258
How do you bring equipment back if it's a dream? Genuine question. I know time is all fucked up, but how can they justify you bringing back armour and stuff from a dream? Unless the whole game is a dream.
>>335947783
the whole world being consumed by the Abyss is what happens when the flame fades
>>335947889
Because you fell for the age of humanity meme
That serpent conveniently forgot to mention that you had to take the flame for yourself and not let it die out
>dark firelink is time travle bullshit
>dark firelink is Ludleth's illusion
>dark firelink is Prince Lothric world
>dark firelink is the only real place in DaS3
Every day.
Every fucking day a new theory comes on about this stupid place
Every fucking lore point in this game always comes back to that place but nobudy knows why
At this point i have given up on knowing what the fuck is going on with that place until all the DLC is out
>>335948112
Oh. Then yes, you're right, humans are inherently a mix of light and dark. Take away all a human's light and they become hollow. Take away all a human's dark and they become something like Artorias.
>>335948038
>>335948169
the Dark Soul is a Lord Soul you dinguses
>CGMag: How do Fira and Aldrich compliment each other as a duo, what is the greatest strength and weakness each adds to the party?
>GM: Fira is a Knight – she’s a fighter, able to make difficult decisions, and if anyone is going to see them through this alive, it’s going to be her. But Aldrich is the one with the arcane knowledge, as well as a functioning memory. He’s Fira’s guide. They need each other. Neither can complete this quest alone.
So Aldrich isn't a badass cleric who kill and eat everyone anymore
;_;
>>335948269
the Serpents technically never lied to you
in the Age of Dark, the only things left around would be societies of hollow humans. they just never specified if said civilizations would be pleasant to live in
Why did Champion Gundyr, the real hero of the souls series, just show up in the 3rd installment without any tidbits about him in the previous games?
>>335948169
The dark soul is a lord soul. Gwyn and co all have a fraction of the original light soul. Humans have a fraction of the dark soul. Everything else either has the chaos (life) soul, death soul, or nothing.
>>335943514
>A L D I A
this. best Ds2 character and his question and research of a third solutionbeyond the age of fire and darkness had great potential.
On a side note, I hate the way they treated DS2 lore in this game, it's aknowledged, but basically irrelevant
>hurr durr le ds2 is worse than death meme
alright, but hear me out.
They didn't retcon it out of existence, they aknowledged it badly.
The best thing to do would have been implement and build on the good stuff that Ds2 brought (and there was some good stuff in 2).
I hope in the DLC
>>335948169
No, Four Kings are the only ones that came close to being similar to Manus but they had fragments of Gwyn's Soul
>>335948286
It is but it's not comparable to the other lord souls.
The other lord souls are all of the same 'type', which is fire/light. The Dark Soul is something entirely different, just sitting in the same basket.
>>335947357
>Because despite the fact that areas in Dark Souls 1 clearly did not just disappear over time, I'm going to pretend I'm right
Or, do you mean, they rebuilt Anor Londo, Firelink, Kiln, etc etc
You're not going to tell me that Throne is Kiln are you? And that Majula is Firelink? And that Heide's Tower is Anor Londo?
Because, spoiler alert, we have those. I'll give you that Drangleic is probably close enough to Lordran but you can't just say that we literally built on top of it, and then we warped in the areas from DS1 because "time convoluted" "transitory lands" and our new characters just happened to be like "yeah this is a cool place to chill, fuck Majula desu"
>>335948280
>Oh. Then yes, you're right, humans are inherently a mix of light and dark.
No they're just dark. The only have a dark soul until maybe the usurper ending.
>>335948072
Ah, thanks.
So the best ending is third one, right?
>>335948423
>Gwyn and co all have a fraction of the original light soul. Humans have a fraction of the dark soul.
There wasn't just two lord souls in the first flame, mate.
There were three standard 'light' Lord Souls and one out of place Dark Soul.
>>335947624
>what we know about firekeeping as a duty it's not considered very bad
What are you talking about? Being a firekeeper (in DS1 at least) is terrible. You're soul is constantly being gnawed away by the humanity offered to your bonfire. The Darkmoon Knightess wore her armor to hide the terrible mutations caused by all the humanity under her skin.
>>335947667
No, taking the first flame for yourself is the "kill the Fire Keeper" ending. the Lord of Hollows ending is something different
>>335948506
>but you can't just say that we literally built on top of it
It's a good thing that I'm not the one saying that.
The NPCs in Dark Souls 2 are.
They use those exact words.
What about location of the graveyard - first location of the game?
Did anyone notice a big castle behind it?
>>335948559
It's a matter of opinion really. I think so. It's a pretty edgy point of view to have honestly. It borders on "everyone should just die so no one can suffer". But yeah, I think it's the best ending so I guess I'm an edgelord.
>>335948072
>You end up "presenting" the fire to the sun
I think he's just holding the thing up and cherishing the thing instead of worshiping the Darksign sun. Some anon mentioned a possible explanation to that ending being the extreme version of what the Firekeeper said about killing her, chickening out at the very last moment and clinging to the remaining fire, with the narrator calling you out for pussying out.
Or as you said, the player character just takes the Fire for himself. Though I don't think he's offering it to some vague presentation of the Darksign. I think the different colored Darksign is just supposed to serves as a thematic backdrop in all the endings, not be some actual object.
>>335948736
Thats Lothric.
>>335948558
Nope.
There is a distinction between things like 'Large Soul of a Fallen Hero' and 'Humanity'. If humans were pure dark then it would just be 'Humanity'. No white souls.
Humanity is not a substitute for a soul. It's something else entirely.
AHH, GRACIOUS LORD...
MAKE...
LONDOR...
WHOLE...
>>335948626
And yet she has no objections to being a firekeeper
Irina wants to become one
Heck even the DaS3 firekeeper doesn't clearly object to her duties as a firekeeper
>>335948270
dark firelink is a secret cage fight arena
it's dark because it's so secret it's hidden underground
gundyr is named the champion because he's secretly the champion of the tournaments hosted there
>>335948730
Which would be fine if not for the fact that the areas that are claimed to be built on straight up still exist
>>335948831
every human has a fragment of the Dark Soul in them, that's "their" soul
when you level up at a bonfire, you take soft/light/soveirgnless souls and "coat" your humanity in them, or otherwise absorb their power into your body. the soft souls that you pick up throughout the game are just the soft souls that other heroes had absorbed into their bodies via leveling
>>335948753
Why edgy? Now you know that it all goes in cycles, meaning that instead of keeping the world in semi-dying phase, you let it continue the cycle, so new Fire - and new life - will come after that.
>>335948753
it's just
>do I pull the band-aid slowly
>or do I tear it off
DLC HYPE
TIME TRAVEL SHENANIGANS
FIGHTING ALL FOUR KNIGHTS OF GWYN AT ONCE
FIGHTING GIANT PRIMORDIAL SERPENT HYDRA
FIGHTING BEARER OF THE CURSE
>>335948559
It's the the second worst ending.
It's the same as the dark lord ending except you're still just a scrub without the protection of the First Flame and you're going to become worm food for the abominations that are about to be unleashed upon the world.
>>335939283
i played all three games with keyboard/mouse, it's perfectly fine control wise.
Although i have a steam controller and that's pretty comfy to play with sometimes.
>>335948753
>>335948980
best ending is Usurpation ending
linking the flame has, at this point, caused WAY more suffering than hollows ever could. The cycle now perpetuates nothing but evil and suffering, there is nothing left about "light" civilizations that's worth saving. Let the whole scam die
>>335948038
>The Dark Soul shit only applies do mankind
that's because Humanity is literally the Dark Souls. The stuff you use in 1 and what Darkwraiths steal is fragments of the original Lord Soul found by the Furtive Pigmy.
All the Lord Souls were eventually distributed around.
Nito's was used to feed Death, The Witch's became fuel for the Chaos that spawns demons, Gwyn's was spread to his allies and the Pigmy's to all humans.
>>335949126
And which one is the best?
>>335923515
>Dark Souls 2 lore
>relevant
>>335948968
Anor Londo used to be in a valley. Now it's on top of a mountain. Is it so hard to accept that it was flooded at one point as well?
>>335936997
I think the deep might be ash lake
It says it was a peaceful place at one point but its now filled with creatures and monstruosities.
It refers to it as the deep sea sometimes. and ash lake is the only sea in the deep i can think of.
>>335949036
L O N D O R
O
N
D
O
R
>>335949182
I like to think that the Witch was responsible for all the miscellaneous non-human/god plant and animal life in the world as well, since it fits with the whole "Life Soul" deal
Reminder this guy is a fraud. He did not link the fire. He is not even Ludleth, but the Soulfeeder mentioned in the Skull ring.
Ashen one is the 5th Lord of Cinder needed to complete the ritual that even this fraud mentions.
>>335949226
Ash Lake is associated with the Age of Ancients, not the Age of Dark.
Deep is more likely related to flooded New Londo. Abyss + water.
>>335934910
I haven't found her yet. Where is she?
>>335948980
Because you still are basically committing mass genocide. Don't get me wrong, it's my favorite ending by far. I'm so glad it's in the game. It's just one of those things that you take a step back and look at it and it's kinda twisted.
>>335949169
>Dark Lord ending is good
Didn't fall for it the first time Kaathe, not falling for it againHow can you say the dark lord ending didn't cause any suffering? Oolacile happened. Killing everyone so that no shitty light or dark age can happen is easily the best ending
>We already have a corrupted flame, the Chaos Flame
>We already have a Profaned Land of Giants, the one who Vendrick sacked
>What if...bear with me now...what if...Profaned Flame!
>What if we gave no explanation on it?
>>335949226
>deep
the Abyss as it is in DaS2 and the Untended Graves. Peaceful, quiet, as still and deep as the bottom depths of the ocean
>Dark
the Abyss as it is in DaS1, when faggot humans and serpents start filling it with all sorts of monstrosities and curses and shit
>>335949210
I'd say Usurpation since it's the only ending that might have finally broken the cycle.
There were four Lord Souls originally found in the First Flame.
>Life Soul (Izalith)
>Death Soul (Nito)
>Light Soul (Gwyn)
>Dark Soul (Pygmy)
I wonder if there was meant to be more of a distinction between the Light, Life and Death souls, rather than just 'these three are the normal ones and that one over there is the weird one'
>>335947870
Nice ass pull, Vaati
>>335949373
Deep is Aldrichs perspective of the Abyss. Even most descriptions of deep items dont parrallel water, but talk about horrid creatures making it their home and incests.
It even says the Age of Deep follows the Age of Fire
>>335949327
>Man literally makes items out of souls that then describe the boss they came from in the item's description
>Oh boy he's got an item that describes someone that's not him
>GUESS HE'S THAT SOULSTEALER GUY
>>335948591
No. There were four souls, light, dark. chaos, and death. The dark soul is described as being unique or unusual but it isn't explicitly stated how. Maybe the other souls couldn't be divied up among everyone like it could.
>>335949327
Ashen one is the catalyst you dumb shit, he isnt a lord of cinder. Ludleth also fucking dies
>>335949327
Read the Skull Ring description again. It is a TRANSPOSED item, from Soulfeeder's soul. It only shows that Ludleth indeed did have the knowledge of transposing items. Also, if you kill Ludleth and come back, he will be resurrected and before talking to him he sees nightmares about burning.
>>335949589
That's what I just said. What are you disagreeing about?
>>335949397
>Oolacile
when Oolacile revived Manus, their sorceries corrupted him and the Abyss that it spawned. The Abyss isn't "naturally" deathly to the touch or cause hideous mutations. It's not like you INSTANTLY die or take corrosive damage when you visit the Abyss in DaS2, or in the Untended Graves, or in Wolnir's arena.
The only time the Abyss fucks with people is when people fuck with Dark Sorceries, like in Lothric and Oolacile. Reminder that the Abyss-goo monsters in DaS3 are the remains of experiments of the Lothric Grand Archives
"Naturally," it's relatively inert. Just not-lightness.
So is that the lord vessel down there?
i was dissapointed when they decided to ignore DS2 story which is the best of them all.
Inb4 meme haters
It just goes to show they developed both games at the same time and neither is really a sequel of the other. The dlc might change that.
I wanted to see what the most interesting character (aldia) would have caused in ds3 in regards to the path beyond the scope of dark and reach of light. I also wanted more about the primordial serpents which are the most interesting characters from DS1 but all we got was a bunch of statues and namedrops.
ds2 lore was very vague until sotfs so im willing to give ds3 a chance.
>>335949589
>there were 4 souls, light, dark, chaos, and death
wrong, Chaos wasn't the Witch's original soul, it was the perverted remnants of her failed experiment. The original 4 souls come in two disparate pairs
>Dark (pygmy) vs Light (Gwyn)
>Death (Nito) vs Life (Witch)
>>335949749
>>335949432
Isn't the Profaned Capital just the Lost Izalith after Yhorm barged in there and beat the shit out of Chaos?
>>335949169
Best ending is letting the fire die as it should have many eons ago.
Let the world do it's thing and reset, eventually even darkness will fade, and there will be a new era yet again. Possibly, this time, there will be no God of Sunlight fucking things up by listening to sneks and burning himself to lock the world in a perpetuos cycle of a fading flame HOLY SHIT WHAT WERE YOU THINKING GWYN
>>335949595
How isnt Ashen one a Lord of Cinder? Hes done just as much as Lothric.
>>335949705
>their sorceries corrupted him and the Abyss that it spawned.
Literally stated nowhere.
Nevermind that Oolacile sorceries are naturally harmless stuff like 'cast light'. The Dark sorceries only existed AFTER Manus created the abyss.
> The Abyss isn't "naturally" deathly to the touch or cause hideous mutations
Yes it is. The Abyss is concentrated Humanity. Go stand near the giant Humanity sprites in the Abyss and take a good long look at your life bar.
> It's not like you INSTANTLY die
Except you do unless you have the Covenant of Artorias.
You're a moron and you just got fucked up.
Screencap this!
The dark souls 3 dlc is going to take place in oolacile just like artorias of the abyss dlc
and the reason I think this is because i found an unused item in the game files called the Iron Crest of the Wolf
its description says
A mark to open the path to Farran Keep, home of the Undead Corps, handed to the cursed undead warrior, which continuously emits the stench of death. Give it to Flaise of Vinheim, and...
>>335949210
Linking the fire
Cycle is the only thing that keep humans from being absorbed by abyss
>>335949815
>>335949868
ehh, I'd have to replay the game to get a closer look at it. It's not like the Lordvessel itself has many distinct markings besides being "a largish relatively flat bowl"
>>335949570
Firstly, all the thrones seem custom made for their Lords, but Ludleth is clearly undersized for the one he sits on. When killed, Ludleth drops the Skull Ring, one of his transposed wonders, derived from the soul of a Soulfeeder, a beast that insatiably absorbed souls to feed its own power. He does not drop a large soul of his own, nor does the game declare 'Heir of Fire Destroyed'.
Ludleth isn't burned because he linked the fire long ago, and he doesn't want you to go out and return with the souls of the Lords of Cinder because he truly believes in the Linking of the Fire. He is the Soulfeeder; his body is burned because his corpse was burned (perhaps even making him an Unkindled like yourself, having returned from the grave) and he wants you to bring back the Lords of Cinder's souls so that he can once again rise to power.
>>335949902
No, Demon Ruins and Smoldering lake is Izalith. There are several items and a corpse that prove it.
>>335949902
Isn't the demon area connected to smouldering lake what's left of Izalith? It has queelags/her sister's corpse in it.
>>335949904
>Best ending is letting the fire die as it should have many eons ago
>faggot who supported this ending is lategame boss
>>335949904
Are you retarded?
Every age of fire comes with like a thousand years of relative prosperity, and you want to cheat the world out of a potentially infinite amount of that just because it ends eventually?
Here's a fucking revelation for you: You're going to die. In less than 50 years. By your logic you should just kill yourself right now because you're only prolonging your suffering.
>>335944152
>But the Abyss ... has no larger ill effects on humans.
My nigga, you could not be any more wrong.
Incase people still don't buy the Dark firelink = past firelink:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5mHuSFRzZM
It could've been different altogether, but handmaiden recognizes you in the 'present' firelink if you first talk to her in dark firelink before ever meeting her.
>>335949519
Read the descriptions you ass hat.
>>335950046
>and he wants you to bring back the Lords of Cinder's souls so that he can once again rise to power.
Your entire faggot theory is debunked by the fact that he sits there and smiles while he gets disentegrated once all the Lords are gathered.
Fuck off with your halfbaked shit.
>>335949920
>the Abyss being naturally harmless is literally stated nowhere
>saying this after 2 games in a row have had your characters be able to traverse the Abyss (with no special ring) with literally nothing bad happening to you at all
senpai pay more attention to your surroundings
those humanity sprites are what happen when you fuck with the Abyss. evil magic == evil abominations
>>335949904
Wouldn't a reset just lead to another beginning, with the first souls(or their new versions) being found like Gwyn and the others did originally?
![c4bc9847e80892f16affe97f9ec91e2c[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/wb6EXeD.png "c4bc9847e80892f16affe97f9ec91e2c[1]")
>"Nameless, accursed undead, unfit to be even cinders. And so it is, that ash seeketh embers."
>Video of Soul of Cinder dragging someone, then kneeling with his sword.
>later on the player character is woken by bells, just like Lords of Cinder
What did they mean by this? Also, what the fuck is up with Firekeeper's crown? In the same opening video before she dons it, it has something dark swirling inside it.
>>335950046
nigga stop copypasting reddit
Yhorm doesn't fit in his fucking throne, and Abyss watchers is like 40 people,
>>335949705
The Abyss is tied with Humanity. It's not a mere poisonous black stuff, it came from Manus' humanity going wild. It's some kind of phylosophical concept made concrete
>>335949589
Dark soul IIRC is stated to get stronger over time as the fire fades and would ensure that the humans would be stronger than the gods as time went on.
>>335949705
Kaathe tempts the people of Oolacile and they accidentally wake up Manus, whose humanity goes wild and then brings about the Abyss. It wasn't their sorceries that corrupted him (unless you have a source that I've completely forgotten about).
And the abyss is pretty not good as far as not good things go. In Dark Souls 1 you die if you fall into the abyss without Artorias' ring. All the people in Oolacile get corrupted as fuck. One of the Abyss Watchers (the one with the red eyes) is infested by the abyss, which is why the two sane ones turn on him (and also why they're purging other Watchers left and right, as indicated by the cutscene and corpses).
So, I disagree. The abyss is clearly not good for you.
Not really a lore question, but why is Anri dressed different in certain endings? Is the bottom one what happens if he is a male?
>>335950286
it means that they made the intro cinematic before deciding where they wanted to have the Red Knight armor be in the game
>>335950287
>abyss watcher is like 40 people
So youre saying Abyss watchers are all gonna link the flame at the same time?
>>335949920
>"Oolacile has brought the Abyss upon itself.
Fooled by that toothy serpent, they upturned the grave of primeval man, and incited his ornery wrath.
What could they have been thinking?"
Not him but Oolacile certainly isn't 100% innocent in the story, they did some shit(with Kaathe's help) that made Manus pissed off
>>335950267
The firekeeper implies that smaller embers might spark an entirely new flame after you hand her the eyes.
>>335944903
>There has never been another example of randomly traveling backwards in time in the Souls series without there being a clear transition.
Who is Marvellous Chester, himself stumped at falling backwards through time and ending up in Oolacile?
>>335950349
why is that anri, i don't get it.
Literally that nigga in back and on the left have the same armor.
>>335950265
>those humanity sprites are what happen when you fuck with the Abyss. evil magic == evil abominations
wh
You think HUMANITY is evil? And created from magic? Jesus fucking christ.
You lack the most basic fucking understanding of the lore. Not to mention you ignored everything else I said, like, you know, the fact that you DO instantly fucking die without a ring in some parts of the abyss.
>>335950404
Well, they did already
Together
>>335940874
Fuck off Kaathe.
>>335946309
>>emptyhero
ma man.
>>335950404
>So youre saying Abyss watchers are all gonna link the flame at the same time?
Any strong soul or group of souls can link the flame. So yes maybe 40 abyss watchers will work or maybe just sending their strongest member in is enough.
>>335950525
Prove they ever linked it. Show me the description that ever says they linked the flame.
Lord of Cinder is just someone with a soul strong enough.
>>335950286
Prince Lothric wasn't even mentioned as one of the lords. The opening makes no fucking sense desu.
>>335950518
except when you traverse the Abyss in DaS2 and DaS3 without a ring and don't get fucked up at all
>>335950508
Bad images, but thats definitely Anri.
>>335950415
That doesn't mean they fucking corrupted him with dark sorceries which literally did not exist before the abyss.
This is the same nigga who is arguing that Humanity is a monster created from sorcery. Don't try to defend this dumbass.
>>335950108
>Here's a fucking revelation for you: You're going to die
yes, and I hope it will be of old age. guess what else was dying cause it was old as fuck? the first fucking flame.
Instead of going:
>age of ancent - age of fire - age of dark - age of new thing - age of other new thing....
it went
>age of ancent - age of fire - age of fire - age of fire - age of fire - age of fire - ....
with a bonus of a nice and lovely curse to humans.
>>335950605
>Lord of Cinder is just someone with a soul strong enough.
Proof?
Oh wait, it's just your headcanon
>>335950601
read their soul/Cinders, the Abyss Watchers all share 1 collective soul, that they split between them
>>335950621
No, he was never mentioned as being brought back to life.
Because it was Lothrics turn to Link the fire. But he fucked off because Aldia told him age of dark is better because Aldia is a dragonfucker.
>>335938953
DS 1's sitting gesture/animation.
>they linked the fire
implying the humanity stripes arent humans true form. It was the wretched flame that gave people flesh and "life"
>>335950631
>this has never happened you guys!
>but what about this one time it did
>BUT WHAT ABOUT THESE OTHER TIMES IT DIDN'T
Fuck off.
>>335950764
Lothric was a Lord of cinder... he didnt link it.
>>335950775
Where did it say that? And the game never said that Aldrich linked the fire.
>>335950856
>the Abyss is inherently corrosive/deathly to the touch
>except it isn't here's all the times where it's not
>N-NO, SHUT UP REEEEE!
fuck off
>>335950767
Well humans all share fragments of the same soul as well and it only takes one strong human to link it.
why does linking the fire look so lackluster? you just get lit, and sit down like some monk. Nothing like dark souls 1.
comparison:
1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPXMR1DioZU
3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_XhXDaCEpc
>>335950605
>Lord of Cinder is just someone with a soul strong enough
No? Lord of Cinder is someone who linked the flame.
The Watchers "shared the blood of the wolf" or something, they linked it as an entity, it's not like they took turns to go and link it.
>>335945542
You people fail to realize one simple thing.
Dark Souls 3, at least the storyline involving Lothric strikes be heavily inspired by Johns Revelation most famous part, opening of the seals, similar to how Bloodborne is inspired by lovecraft.
Let's have a look.
>Every mountain and island is moved out of place (6:14)
Just like cities and whole lands are moved out of place and appear elsewhere, like Lothric or Carthus.
>"Under the altar," appeared the souls of martyrs for the "word of God," who cry out for vengeance. They are given white robes and told to rest until the martyrdom of their brothers is completed. (6:9-11)
Under the altar (shrine, firelink shrine), appear the souls of martyrs (because they burn themselves to save the known world), they are told to rest (on the thrones), until all of them have linked the fire.
In Dark Souls 3, lords don't wait on the thrones, which is a nice spin.
IT STARTS GETTING VERY OBVIOUS NOW!
>There occurs a great earthquake where "the sun becomes black as sackcloth of hair" (6:12).
>sun becomes black
>great earthquake
Come on guys. If you played the game you know what this means.
Don't even get me started on the divine messangers.
Thank you Myiazaki for making Christian mythos cool.
>>335950825
You're a male right? (referring to my question here >>335950349 )
then what the fuck is a lord of cinder? i was under the impresion that they ALL linked the flame at some point but now just dont give a shit anymore
>>335950731
>with a bonus of a nice and lovely curse to humans.
How do you not fucking understand this after three games.
Hollows are the natural state of humans. The 'curse' is just them reverting to their natural state after the Age of Fire starts to fade. Once the Age of Fire fades completely and the Age of Dark begins, you will be PERMACURSED. NO MORE HUMAN FORM, EVER.
The Age of Fire at its peak is the one time this world is actually kind of nice, and retards like you think it's a good idea to accelerate the transition to the age where literally everything goes tits up and everyone becomes undead.
>>335950881
>Lothric was a Lord of Cinder
oh look, my favorite meme!
>Lothric isn't mentioned in the intro cinematic when they list Lords of Cinder
>Lothric tells you during his fight that he isn't a Lord of Cinder
>Emma tells you that he isn't a Lord of Cinder
>Lothric's soul tells you explicitly that he isn't a Lord of Cinder
>>335950984
because you should know by now that you should have left the flame fade since ds1
>>335950881
>never was ressurected
>Never was refered as a Lord of Cinder by anyone in the game
>woman in the church says that he needs to link the fire and become, "become" like you know IN THE FUCKING FUTURE sense, Lord of Cinder
I wonder, are you actually retarded?
>>335950956
It says in his skirt descriptoon (i think) a scholar told him.not to
>>335950854
>implying the humanity stripes arent humans true form. It was the wretched flame that gave people flesh and "life"
What the fuck, having a nice, fleshy body, a family, the ability to feel and create, is somehow a bad thing now? Grr, that darn flame!
So, from what I understand:
>large number of the bosses are just nihilistic and want the flame to go out
>one of the endings is to let the flame go out
>and people call it the edgy ending
Are you shitting me, that is hilarious. Some Snake Pliskin shit. Kill everyone, achieve their objective for them.
>>335951010
>women
>leaders
yes im a male
>>335950984
Because the Flame is no more, it doesn't have any more energy left. Linking the fire probably ensures one last cycle, but in the end the flame it just going out now. Darkness will set, no matter wat.
Anyone thinks Unattended Graves is Cemetery of Ashes of a Dark Lord Ending and Chosen Undead having Killed Manus and sealed the Abyss?
DS3 seems like Chosen Undead didnt seal the Abyss and is a linking the fire Ending. I ahave no other explanation why these two firelinks exist and why one Judex got corrupted by the Abyss while the other is in his prime and uncorrupted.
>>335951001
So this is the westaboo version of shitty western interpretations of shinto buddhism?
>>335951001
hmmm that might be cool
>>335951028
A lord of cinder is someone who linked the flame. Lothric was basically raised from birth to be a lord of cinder and it was just assumed he would link the flame so people refer to him as a lord of cinder. Even though he is a prince you'll note his throne in firelink refers to him as king. Basically everyone jumped the gun on assuming he would do it and when he didn't it fucked everything over.
>>335950956
Aldrich lord of cinder, means he linked the fire
>>335950984
Every cycle, the flame gets a little weaker. The Lord Souls aren't as concentrated anymore, the fuel isn't as potent. Eventually someone will try to link the fire and it won't work at all.
>>335940451
>Don't know about giants though.
Actually I have a small thought now. Assuming there's huge time gap between DS1, 2, 3. Giants in DS1 are workface, like animals that is clearly not as intelligent as humans (Gough clearly isn't the brightest mind around).
Huge amount of time passes and evolution makes them evolve into giants from DS2, which managed to make their own kingdom, had some kind of society, could build boats and had king (so they reached what humans already reached in DS1).
In DS3 huge amount of time passes again and giants are dead from war. Last giant indicated it, king Lothric probably went full Hitler-mode to erase their race (probably not many giants were left and they are hiding from humans). Yhorm is a bastard of giant and human, that's why he has features from both. And due to people hearing stories about giants going rambo from long time ago they didn't trust him much (that's why he needed to give sword in the first place, dude was segragated). Slave giants are due to time collapsing in the universe. They are clearly from Anor Londo slavery.
>tl;dr giants are niggers of DS univers, still behind normal humans and hated by everyone, can't do anything but smash and do simple jobs
>>335950025
Well here is a better look and check this vid of DS1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNRAJQFv8wU
>>335951102
>LORD OF CINDER DEFEATED
>Drops a soul of lord of cinder
>Used in ritual
>NO HES NOT A LORD.OF CINDER GUIEZ
>>335950324
Manus' humanity going wild just let the Abyss take over oolacile several centuries before the Flame faded enough to allow it to do so naturally. the Abyss == the world in the Age of Dark. Manus going nuclear just spawned an Age of Dark locally, around Oolacile/New Londo, by overwhelming the power of Fire
>>335951284
Not his fault his father fucked up, poor Lothric was even named after the kingdom.
>>335950731
It's age of fire > age of dark > age of fire, rinse and repeat.
The Firekeeper herself mentions how she sees "tiny flames" in the Darkness, implying one day some fucker will find those flames and start this shit all over again.
Second phase of Soul of Cinder is not actually Gwyn himself but the Chosen Undead having consumed Gwyn's soul that still supposed to be with him/her after defeating Gwyn is DaS1.
>>335951069
hollows are not the natural state, its the transitory state. Humanity sprites in the abyss is the true form.
>>335950775
>Because it was Lothrics turn to Link the fire
I really can`t understand how this LoC role was forced on him. I always thought that Loc/Chosen Unded/Chosen Anyone is someone with strong willpower, who want to link the flame himself.
And then there is Lothric, who doesn`t give a single fuck about flame, but was shosen for that role in some strange way.
>>335942506
Oddly enough, messages that are placed in the first Firelink / main Firelink show up in the Abyss/untended graves Firelink..
>>335951386
>Lothric was groomed to become a Lord of Cinder and bred by SCIENCE to have the power to do it
>fucks off and never bothers taking the mantle of Lord of Cinder, instead of embracing his destiny
>B-BUT WHY DOES HE DROP CINDERS???????
>>335951418
First phase is CU
2nd phase is Gywn
The only 2 confirmed for linking the fire
>>335930381
Thanks for providing your insight. Not enough genuine discussion is had.
>>335951386
>LORD OF CINDER DEFEATED
Okay, you proved it
You are braindead retarded
Please, just please
Never play das and des before they were patched, you would destroy any lore thread
>>335950775
>But he fucked off because Aldia told him age of dark is better because Aldia is a dragonfucker.
False. The reason Lothric didn't want to link the Fire was due to Kaathe or some other Serpent. You can see statues of "angels" (who are practically Serpents with wings) in the Lothric castle.
In DaS2 Aldia doubts both the Link of Fire AND the Age of Dark. He wants neither, but an another answer.
>Once, the Lord of Light banished Dark, and all that stemmed from humanity. And men assumed a fleeting form. These are the roots of our world. Men are props on the stage of life, and no matter how tender, how exquisite… A lie will remain a lie. Young Hollow, knowing this, do you still desire peace? (YES / NO)
>Peace grants men the illusion of life. Shackled by falsehoods, they yearn for love, unaware of its grand illusion. Until, the curse touches their flesh. We are bound by this yoke. As true as the Dark that churns within men. All men trust fully the illusion of life. But is this so wrong? A construction, a facade, and yet… A world full of warmth and resplendence. Young Hollow, are you intent on shattering the yoke, spoiling this wonderful falsehood? (YES / NO)
>I am Aldia. I sought to shed the yoke of fate, but failed. Now, I only await an answer. Seek the throne. Seek light, Dark and what lies beyond…
>I lost everything, but remained here, patiently. The throne will certainly receive you. But the question remains… What do you want, truly? Light? Dark? Or something else entirely…
>There is no path. Beyond the scope of light, beyond the reach of Dark… …what could possibly await us? And yet, we seek it, insatiably… Such is our fate.
>>335951469
There's a mention somewhere of the first born of the Lothric line being designated as a lord of cinder burdened with linking the flame. It's why Occelotte went/was taken into hiding.
>>335951190
implying you could even comprehend being formless and immortal. Also they did have families considering there were small humanity strips that looked like kids.
>>335951459
No.
In the intro cinematic, a bunch of Hollows stumble towards the First Flame and find the Lord Souls, including the Dark Soul.
HOLLOWS PREDATE HUMANITY, BOTH HUMAN BEINGS AND THE DARK SOUL FRAGMENTS
>>335951459
no they aren't, you don't find them anywhere else in the series. Yuria herself says that HOLLOWS are the final form of Man.
people mutating into humanity sprites is unique to Oolacile
>>335951418
>>335951512
The whole boss fight is just everyone who linked the flame mashed together.
>>335950956
>And the game never said that Aldrich linked the fire
He was forced to do it because he was so powerful from being an ultra XXXL bbw monstrosity.
>>335951634
>people mutating into humanity sprites is unique to Oolacile
that was just pure humanity taking consciousness though, not people
>>335951717
>He was forced
Proof?
>>335951625
Those are just clumps of varying sizes, you moron.
Humanity naturally draws other Humanity, wanting to recreate the Dark Soul. They merge together. That's why they float towards you, they're trying to rejoin with your Humanity but end up essentially disentegrating your body in the process.
>>335930628
Someone says that they locked him up and forced him to do it
>>335951853
lol what
>>335951765
The deformed dudes with bug heads, however, were people. Oolacilians corrupted by the abyss.
>>335951585
goddamn aldia has the best npc dialogue nothing in dks3 comes close.
>>335951261
Please fuck off with your weeb religions.
So, where is the Abyss in DaS3? You don't ever visit it like in DaS1 and DaS2.
Also, I've never tried this, but do the portals to the chasm of the abyss automatically close when you exit the Abyss covenant?
>>335951817
They tied one end of a stick to his head and tied Gwyndolin to the other and let him rampage until he ran into the first flame.
>>335951629
those hollows are raising and looking at their hands because this is their new fleshy form thanks to the fire. fire=life
>>335951817
there's none, Hawkwood sayse that he was MADE a lord of cinder. That doesn't necessarly mean that he was forced.
>>335951927
yes, but he was talking about the Humanity ghosts, not the Bloatheads
>>335951929
Vendrick was also 10/10 performance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xCLVj2jgtA
>>335952021
They aren't looking at their hands, they're looking at the fire. The one hollow who looks at his hands is the Furtive Pygmy because his LORD SOUL IS IN HIS HANDS.
Hollows are the original state. Humanity, Dark, Abyss, that all came later, derivative of the Dark Soul. This is fundamental fucking knowledge. If you don't know this basic shit then anything you have to say is meaningless.
>>335951989
>where is the Abyss in DaS3?
Untended Graves is technically inside the Abyss.
>>335951102
So, why I should kill him? Especially if I`m going to End of Fire/Usurping ending. Seems like like Ludleth has some personal hatred for him.
At least it`s somehow supported Dark Fierlink=Ludleth Firelink theory.
>people SERIOUSLY think that the Abyss isn't the Age of Dark
lmaoing @ you people
the Abyss is simply what happens when the flame fades. it's simply the state of the world once the flame fades. Manus just overwhelmed the First Flame when his humanity went wild, and allowed it to appear before it was supposed to
>>335952337
Go back to the drawing board mate.
>>335952335
he still has the power to link the flame even if he never used it, so you still need him to complete the ritual
>>335952036
How the fuck is Aldrich moving anyway? And how did he link the fire in the first place. He is a huge blob, I still have no idea how Pontiff traveled with him from his grave to Anal Rodeo.
>>335952337
Wrong.
The state of the world once the flame fades SHOULD be the Age of Ancients, where everything is gray and stony, not black and slimy. However, Manus altered the natural state of things by dividing the Dark Soul and creating the Abyss, and ensured that an Age of Dark would follow instead.
>>335952386
literally nothing about that post was wrong, but nice try anyway, anon
>>335952303
>Untended Graves is technically inside the Abyss.
No it isn't, it is literally cemetery of ash in the past during an age of dark.
>>335951328
anyone?
>>335952509
that's false, even in the intro to DaS1 they state that once the flames fade darkness remains, not grey
>>335952553
Age of Dark == Abyss
>>335952553
Same thing, dude.
>>335950856
He's right. Humanity sprites and endlessly falling kill you in the abyss. It really seems sinister and is a hiding place for many bad things, but the abyss itself is indifferent to you, bearer of a dark soul.
>all this talk of fire and darkness and abyss and cycles
>tfw you just want to chill with everlasting dragons in a world of grey crags and archtrees
the first flame was a mistake
New thread?
So Velka brings you back in 1 to get revenge on the Gods
You bring yourself in 2 to cure your insanity
In 3 Gywnevere brings you back. The hidden blessing says that the queen is the only one who cared enough to go to the graves and pray for people, and according to the Ashen estus ring "Once a treasure brought before Lothric's Queen, she had it enshrined in the Cemetery of Untended Graves, so that one day an Unkindled might profit from its use."
So that means she knew unkindled would wake up in that spot and need the ring
>>335952553
>age of dark
>tfw no souls with survival horror elements set during age of dark
>>335952613
>that's false, even in the intro to DaS1 they state that once the flames fade darkness remains, not grey
Because the narration is taking place post-Manus, while your character is rotting away in his cell.
If you went back in time and erased the Dark Soul from existence before it was ever picked up, there would be no Age of Dark, ever. Everything to do with Dark is contingent on the Dark Soul. It is not an independent universal constant.
>>335951001
Explain. I'm a sandnigger and this sounds interesting
>>335952628
>Same thing
No it isn't.
The Abyss is the Abyss. An age of dark is just the world in darkness, the Abyss still exists as it always has.
In Chinese cosmology, Yin and Yang are two opposite but complementary principles that regulate the functioning of the cosmos. Their continuous joining and separation is at the origin of the rise and the disappearance of all entities and phenomena in the world of the "ten thousand things" (wanwu), in which we live.
According to a famous statement, found in one of the appendixes to the Book of Changes (Yijing), "one Yin and one Yang, this is the Dao." These words refer to the Dao, which first determines itself as Unity and then gives birth to the two complementary principles. As each of these stages generates the next one, Yin and Yang are ultimately contained within the Dao itself. At the same time, the phrase "one Yin and one Yang, this is the Dao" refers to the continuous alternation of Yin and Yang within the cosmos. When one of the two principles prevails, the other yields, but once one of them has reached the height of its development, it begins to recede — and in that very moment, the other principle begins its ascent. This mode of operation is especially visible in the time cycles of the day (alternation of daytime and nighttime) and of the year (alternation of the four seasons).
This is really what dark souls is based around. life and death
>>335952474
I assume Pontiff just had like a line of sacrifices and Aldrich just kept eating till he got locked up
>>335952738
No, because the First Flame birthed disparity. Light, and Dark, come in an inseparable pair. There can never again be an Age of Ancients, because the disparity introduced forevermore by the flame means that NotFire == Dark
>>335952648
>Humanity sprites and endlessly falling kill you in the abyss.
The abyss IS Humanity. If the visible Humanity sprites kill you fast, the abyss itself will kill you slow.
If you're trying to argue that the abyss isn't naturally harmful, then you are comparing 'well we walked through it and seemed okay' to 'look at these thousands of people that have been canonically established to have been killed, mutated or corrupted by the abyss'.
The latter wins out.
>>335950404
That must've been akward.
Imagine fourty people on a bonfire discussing how they can burn as a group.
>>335952837
I thought he teleported with him straight to Christmas town. Because this thing doesn't seem to see very mobile, Moving from Road Of Sacrifices to snow town would take him so long age of dark could begin and end twice.
>>335952808
The Fire keeps the abyss at bay. Once it fades the Abyss is free to spread and consume everything, which is why everything turns dark.
>>335952808
except no, because in DaS1 there is literally 0 distinction between "darkness" and "abyss," and neither is there such a distinction in DaS2. They are one and the same, the Abyss is the final form of Darkness. Hell, Wolnir's Soul even tells you this outright, where it states that Wolnir messed around with dark magic, but then got scared straight by TRUE darkness, and was claimed by the Abyss. And then you fight him in the Abyss
so why is the game named dark souls if there is no mention of any dark soul since pigmy
>>335952916
>'well we walked through it and seemed okay'
Shouldn't forget that you do literally die when going to the 4 kings unless you have artorias ring.
>>335935896
Those are incense burners
>>335952993
Maybe he fed him a homeward bone?
Wrap some bacon on it and no-one will know the difference, especially a hungry rotting mass.
>>335953067
literally because they thought it sounded cool. you should have seen the earlier names they had for the game though.
>>335952868
Correct.
And once the First Flame fades, that disparity should cease to exist, returning things to a state of stillness, because the First Flame initially encompassed both light and dark.
But Manus has changed that, and now dark will reign instead.
>>335952173
yes he was great as well.
shame dks3 just ignored everything
>>335952916
except we have demonstrable cases of the Abyss being harmless, in both DaS2 and DaS3. If you're going to pretend that those never happened, and that "lol the Abyss is inherently deadly" than you're going to need to close your eyes and shut your ears much harder than that, anon
>>335952916
That was a result of their humanity going wild and has more to do with Manus directly
>>335953137
Whole idea of Aldrich is quite stupid. How did he turn into Abyss looking shitmass just from eating human flesh. Why don't animals turn into dark blobs?
>>335953067
Humans are the dark souls. It's a reference to the players themselves.
>The only person Pontiff treatet like a friend was Aldrich
>Lol he was just used and forced to link flame!!!
Why people so retarded?
>>335953159
No, disparity would still exist. Flame fading would mean that the coin flips, and the world would be dark instead. It NOT FIRE, then DARK is the rule of disparity. The world will never ever return to being grey, regardless of whether or not the dark soul was claimed
>>335953067
humans are the dark souls
thats literally it. bravo miyazaki.
>>335953202
Do you completely lack reading comprehension?
One guy walks through the abyss and survives.
Entire countries are swallowed by the abyss and its denizens are transformed into shambling monstrosities, or just killed outright.
Countless characters make attempts to traverse the abyss and perish in the attempt.
BUT ONE GUY DID IT SO THE ABYSS IS TOTALLY HARMLESS
You're a fucking idiot.
>>335953159
What happens in the End of Fire ending in DS3 then?
The Firekeeper seems to imply that flames will return one day.
>>335952868
disparity is introduced by the flame, the age of dark is simply the moment where the flame is pathetic and weak but it will grow at some point. yin and yang.
You actually have to destroy the flame to get back to the age of ancients.
So why exactly does Kaathe need a Lord of Hollows? I always kind of assumed LoH was Yuria's way of trying to break away from Kaathe's planning and manipulation and truly have humanity take their fate into their own hands? A Lord to lead them away from the serpent.
>>335953343
I think this is correct. You can't put the genie back in the bottle. Once a hollow has experienced the glory of the flame and the emptiness of the dark they're never going to be the same.
>>335953029
No, darkness comes from the Abyss. The Abyss remains as it is, the darkness spreads but the Abyss remain where it is.
>>335953041
The Abyss is a physical place, it doesn't move. You fight Wolnir "IN" the Abyss because that is where he is "IN" the Abyss.
Just like how you travel "TO" the Abyss in DS1 and DS2.
>>335953343
Do you have any actual evidence for this or is it just your headcanon?
>>335953442
You can't go the age of ancients because Manus fucked everything and lovecraftian abyss shithole will still be there
>>335953401
anon, the fact that the Abyss was corrosive in the first game does not invalidate the evidence provided by all future games, keep up
>>335952993
He can move really damn fast. When he does his side step while raining little glowy projectiles on you he makes quiet a bit of room in a small amount of time. The misconception of him not moving fast might be because he can't puppeteer Gwyndolin's body well in melee, where he twists pretty dramatically to fail hard most of the time
>>335951681
It's more every possibly that could have been, CU was capable of being many things and that boss fight reflected it. Soul of Cinder used Sorcerries, Pyromancies, and Miracles on top of varied melee weapons, all possibilities that the Chosen Undead could have used in addition to Gwyn and the other first Lord moves.
>>335953327
I wouldn't say a friend. He was just his most devoted follower and did everything for him while Aldrich dreamed about eating waifus like a true fat weaboo. I don't see why he would link the fire when his whole belief was based on age of dark/deep. Probably people just grouped and made Church of The Deep make their OP strong leader link the fire since nobody else was found. Probably in return they sacrificed hugeload of people for him or something liek that.
What Lovecraft books should I read?
>>335953518
>The Abyss is a physical place, it doesn't move.
No it's not.
'The Abyss' is used to describe any location which has been swallowed by the Abyss. If it didn't fucking move then the Abyss wouldn't be anywhere near the Four Kings OR Drangleic since it was originally in OOLACILE.
>>335953518
it's a place that can expand to however large it can grow, so technically it can move by expanding it's borders. the Age of Dark is just it growing larger and larger and larger until it swallows everything
>>335953441
If souls still exist then souls will eventually accumulate somewhere in some creature or in some form which will spark new flames. Kill enough hollows enough times... even humanity sprites had SOME souls in DS1. In a long long time there might be a new manifestation of Gwyn or chosen undead who just happens upon enough souls. Undead are drawn towards fire after all so it's bound to happen.
>>335953327
>implying Sulyvahn treated him like a friend
>implying Sulyvahn has time for friends
>implying Sulyvahn wouldn't do anything to further himself
>>335952767
Johns Revelation, known also as The Apocalypse is a part of the Bible describing, on the surface level, the end of the world.
A lot of imagery from this part of the Bible is present in Dark Souls 3, and i do believe it is intentional and that Miyazaki is aware of this, whether he denies it or not. If you're more interested, you have the exact quotes listed there, or just read the thing yourself.
>>335953498
If you kill Yuria she says "I've failed you Kaathe", meaning both Yuria and Kaathe want a Hollow Lord.
>>335953587
I'm going to stop taking you seriously now until you can at least comprehend the opposing argument.
>>335953743
>the Abyss in New Londo and Oolacile are in different places
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGQ86Aet_7M
>>335953670
>I don't see why he would link the fire when his whole belief was based on age of dark/deep
Because he never wanted dark to come, so he prefered burning and not living in the world full of abyss horrors
He saw deep when he mediated on the first flame, so maybe he become deep worshipper latter
>>335953401
Also the people did not die, they mostly transformed into animalistic monstrosities with bug heads that killed people and those are a result of manus himself getting corrupted.
>>335953327
It literally says in the cinders he became a lord by devouring men
>>335953831
your argument has no validity, and you argue like an incoherent child. there is nothing to comprehend.
the abyss is a result of the dark soul. it is humanity gone wild.
The age of dark by itself should have no relation to the abyss. in fact the abyss draws its strength from the flame (the dark soul) just like the gods drew strength from the lord souls.
The age of dark is simply that. a dark world, like untended graves.
>>335953651
Why didn't Gwyndolin just literally ran away from him? I mean it's hard to oversee huge amount of oil quickly moving towards your castle. It's not like he and Pontiff sneaked around corners. And why didn't he ate Silver Knights on his way to Gwyndolin? And why don't they attack deacons of the deep since I assume they protect Anal Rodeo.
>>335953910
And where "forced" comes from
From your headcanon, lol?
![Ocelot[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/QsI510E.png "Ocelot[1]")
