So what are your honest opinion on this? I just played it for the first time today and I have to say it's pretty fun. Even though I'll have to admit the controls are a bit weird, but not as bad as some people claimed.
>>335839025
Hour to master the controls
Favorite levels were the dog fight levels
Didn't enjoy the gyro level
Walker was great
8/10
The controls are only "bad" because there is no proper tutorial to speak of and game doesn't explain when to use the motion controls properly. You rarely need to use the Game Pad, but the first level makes it seem like it's absolutely necessary.
Hated the controls
Difficulty was non-existent, especially saddening from a company like Platinum whose claims of being "hardcore" rival that of Dark Souls and From Software. (which aren't that hard either)
Story was meh, nothing I can say about it.
didn't offer enough to warrant the 60 dollar price tag, and replayability just wasn't up to par.
I hate furry characters.
4/10 if I'm being generous.
>>335839025
I liked it. The controls were really off-putting at first, but I really started to enjoy them after a bit. My biggest complaint with the game is just that it really should have had more content.
>>335839025
The graphics are dated for Wii U standards, the forced motion controls are odd, but not terrible or unplayable, but they still feel pointless. the chickenwalker and robot segemnts suck and ruin the pacing. Allrange for every boss is a buzzkill. lack of online when Guard has it really is a letdowner, and the lack of content compared to the original 64 doesn't make it worth full price
Overall, it's a 6/10. Not bad, but mediocre
>>335839025
Some of the best controls I've ever used in a game after the first level. Voice acting and story were dull. Dogfights were awesome. Difficult was just right.
Easily an 8/10.
got the game about a week before street date
fucking hated it. Put in 2 hours before I was done entirely. I despised the controls, the music is bland and doesn't stick out, the voices are all wrong compared to 64, and it has fucking HELICOPTER STEALTH SEGMENTS AND COMPUTER HACKING.
NOBODY WANTS THAT SHIT IN STAR FOX.
>>335839176
> giving the order 1886 for wii u an 8/10
Y
>>335839025
Shit controls and lacks content. Wait for a price drop or pirate it.
>>335839241
I'm pretty sure the game said pretty early to use the game pad in certain circumstances which needs better aiming. I have no idea why people are so obsessed with the aiming since it's basically optional.
>>335839407
>your entire post
Why the hell did you buy the game if you basically hate the concept of Starfox?
3/10 for Star Fox Zero
7/10 for Star Fox Guard
The gyro level is a waste of time, the chicken wing sections needed less shit platforming, landmaster's bullets are totally worthless, there is zero reason to not be charging shots 100% of the time.
Rest is alright besides the framerate when giant laser beams and explosions are happening.
I wouldn't do a full run ever again, some levels just stall the game dead in it's tracks like making sure i killed enough with gyrowing was tedious enough to despise that level forever.
>>335839653
The worst part is that those could've made the game better if they were just slightly more well done.
>>335839751
>why buy the game if you don't like the latest iteration
Because as a paying customer I have a right to criticize a product? If I didn't at least give it a chance, everyone would just say "you're not allowed to criticize it, you didn't experience it enough".
Now I'm completely immune from such comments.
>>335839176
I actually thought the gyro level was fun, dog fight levels were hard as shit but I haven't mastered the controls yet.
>>335839025
I really hope they get rid of that chris pratt look they gave to fox whenever the time comes for the next gameif there is one
The first route through the game is awful. The levels are boring and they stuff the chicken walker and gyro copter down your throat.
After finishing it the controls clicked and playing the side levels was a blast.
I eventually came to accept the gyro and walker.
The game is quite good but ultimately a disappointment.
It needed more on-rails levels and less experimental shit.
Shiggy is so focused on making a new experience he didn't bother checking if that experience was even remotely enjoyable.
>>335839025
It's disappointing. Short on content, gyro missions are horrendous, no alternate boss, and way too many ARM segments.
Nothing as memorable as SF64.
Oh, except that one where you fly through the shield. That's the best part of the game.
It was fun, but like everyone says, it lacks content. I wouldn't mind the short length as much if it was presented better, and I don't even mean graphically.
The way things happen is really just unmemorable, shit just kinda happens. This game could've benefitted from some short but sweet introduction scenes Ace Combat style.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2O-ybTaYic
Like in the final Star Wolf fight, they just kinda swoop in and it makes everything feel really anticlimactic.
>>335840016
this desu
>>335839025
Why does everyone rate this game so poorly? I don't get it. It looks like another star fox game like the 64.
Fun, controls are fine, needed more actual on-rails sections and harder dogfights. 7/10
>>335840120
Because it has worse level design, voice acting, music, and gameplay than 64, by a landslide.
Rented it. Didn't even finish it.
>>335840064
>Oh, except that one where you fly through the shield. That's the best part of the game.
Facts
>>335840120
It's like SF64 if it had a third of the content, shorter overall levels, gimmicky controls, and no alternate ending.
>>335840064
>ARM segments
I remember being so disappointed coming into area 3.
>ok, the walker was a bit shit but now we're back to the arwing baby!
>fly 20 metres
>let's go to all-range mode!
>mfw
Welp. looks like we'll never get another Starfox again.
The only good ones were the snes and 64 versions.
>>335840216
where the fuck can you even rent a game from?
The controls in this were so bad I felt like fucking DSP.
anytime I got hit I just blamed the shitty controls, dropped the game after the second mission when they had a goddamn robot with tank controls (actual tank controls) and made me hack a computer.
>>335839025
It tried to be too many different things, very few of them lining up with what the series has been before, and failed to some significant degree at all of them.
>>335840120
And during the linear levels it's as good as SF64.
The issue is that there are about 4 true linear levels which are Corneria, Corneria 2, Fortuna and Titania.
Titania is a landmaster level too.
Three traditional missions, two original awing missions. That's it.
>>335840342
I shit you not, there's still brick and mortar movie rental stores.
Redbox is also still a thing, but I prefer the video store.
People give the chicken walker too much shit. Running underneath the Gigarilla's legs to turn around and shoot it in the back felt rad.
It was underutilized though, like almost everything in the game.
Anyone saying the game is shit or giving it a 3 or 4 out of ten is retarded or didn't like Star Fox in the first place--but it does fall flat.
>>335839864
But why do you buy a game you know you will hate? You can buy whatever you want but I don't understand your mindset.
>>335840487
Oh yeah there is also Sector A but it's extremely short and you spend much more time in the chicken walker. It doesn't really count.
>>335840487
>And during the linear levels it's as good as SF64.
lolno
the levels lack the overall good design 64 had, they lack the variety of objectives, and most importantly 64 has incredibly precise, tight controls that work perfectly while Zero's controls are absolute dogshit
>>335840554
>Running underneath the Gigarilla's legs to turn around and shoot it in the back felt rad.
As you implied, that was the only good time it was used.
Running through Corneria on the ground was novel but it didn't add anything.
So... Was the delay worth it?
>>335840206
>Music
Debateable
>Gameplay
False, it comes down to the controls being weird but the actual gameplay of the Arwing is superior. Mainly due to being able to aim independently of your movement and having a very generous boost.
Don't let the game's actual flaws make you shit all over it.
>>335839025
honest opinion?
64>Starfox 1>Assault Multiplayer>Adventures>Starfox 2>Assault Campaign=Guard>Command>Zero
I honestly think Starfox Zero is worse than Metroid Other M.
>>335840554
Is it just me or was trying to plug into the Gigarilla with the chicken a huge pain in the ass?I mean, I eventually figured out that I just had to not run around like a maniac, but fuck, I fell of that platform like 12 times.
Anyways, I like the idea of the walker, but it seemed a bit underutilized. Though maybe that's a bit redundant since a lot of cool mechanics are pretty underutilized because of the length.
>>335840539
Basically no redbox stocks Wii U games. At least not around here.
>>335840642
I love SF64 but come on, what objectives?
Sector Y - Kill enemies to get Mission Accomplished
Katina - Kill the boss quickly
Solar - Finish the level
Sector Z - Kill the missiles
Only sector X and Macbeth had good objectives.
After they clicked for me I enjoyed the controls just fine. If you play in first person it's far easier.
>>335840810
being able to aim independently of movement doesn't count for shit when the controls are absolute dogshit garbage.
There's an absolutely fucking incredible on-rails shooter that rivals Starfox 64 that has aiming independent of movement. Its name is Sin and Punishment: Star Successor, not Starfox Zero.
2/10 Can't stream or lp this due to gamepad voices
>>335841004
Discouraging streamers is a good thing.
>In Arcade Mode you go through the Zoness level with the airwing and it's 100x better and faster
What's the fucking point even
>>335839241
>no proper tutorial
>>335840940
Corneria: Fly through the rings and protect Falco to unlock the alternate route
Asteroid Field: Open up the hidden warp gates, shooting them all and going through each one without missing
Zoness: Destroy all the spotlights without being seen
MacBeth: Shoot all the switches WHILE FIGHTING THE BOSS to change routes and instantly kill it
Sector X: Kill the boss before it one-shots Slippy
These little objectives add a ton of nuance to the game without also detracting from the core design
>>335839241
The game opens with a 10 minute unskippable tutorial and the story starts out with a 3 minute unskippable tutorial
it's just that the controls themselves are fucking terrible and no amount of forced tutorial will help.
I don't get you faggots bitching about the controls. The gyro makes aiming more precise and the camera usually can get fixed by hitting the minus button
>>335840967
The controls are not "absolute dogshit garbage".
What now?
I've played Sin and Punishment, and it's better than 64 but that doesn't mean that Starfox Zero is garbage to me.
>>335839025
I liked it.
>>335841279
The point is that they're forced. I paid 60 bucks for this, I do not tolerate a company limiting me like that.
>>335841357
That doesn't make the controls shit
>>335841180
I mentioned S:X and Macbeth you fucking dolt.
Corneria's is shit though I'd forgotten about Zoness.
You've got the asteroid warp mixed up with the sector X warp. The asteroid warp is the blue rings that make you spin and go really fast.
Yeah, you're right though. The game did have a lot of better touches.
I still feel that if every level in Zero was like Fortuna or Titania the game would have been miles better.
>>335839025
It's ok.
It's GOTY? No.
It's shit? No.
It's in the middle. I wish it was longer and gave you both new and old control schemes, not only the newest one. But on the other hand, the game itself is great, bosses are challenging, unlocking everything and making better scores is fun and, basically, this is the StarFox game I wanted since 64, without the faggotry that tainted Adventures and Command. And Assault too but less.
The shitposting is really overblown. And Guard is a nice plus overall.
>>335841443
Any controls that are forced on you are "shit" by default.
>>335840816
>I honestly think Starfox Zero is worse than Metroid Other M.
Holy shit fuck off with that bullshit
>>335841279
>The gyro makes aiming more precise
If the gyro wasn't so fucking sensitive you'd be right. But as is a tiny movement will fucking send it flying.
Not to mention Barrel Rolls are stupidly finnicky thanks to being mapped to the right stick now. Not nearly as simple as just tapping a button.
>>335839025
A downgrade from a game over a decade old. NO EXCUSE, APPLY YOURSELF:
4/10
>>335841004
Why is this a problem
>>335841443
The controls make it worse and detract from the level design and arcade experience.
>>335841532
You're meant to just tilt it slightly.
You do have fine motor control like the rest of the human race, yes?
>>335840487
5 leevels?
is this game 20 minutes long?
wtf? SNES had more levels.
>>335839025
It's good, but could be better.
>>335841279
I love the gyro controls, but fuck using the stick to roll.
>>335841279
For me the gyro makes just playing the fucking game a chore, and makes the camera jerky and shitty.
>>335841532
I don't know if you're waving it around like a wiimote but the sensitivity's fine. It gets even more precise if you go to cockpit view
>Not to mention Barrel Rolls are stupidly finnicky thanks to being mapped to the right stick now.
I'll give you that
>>335841357
Star Fox 64 forced it's control scheme, too. The game isn't great but this argument is bullshit.
>>335841456
What's bad about Corneria's?
>>335841523
as much as the controls in Other M sucked, they were better than the controls in Zero, as in I could actually play the fucking game.
>>335841621
Why is it worse.
I keep trying to play it like a normal star fox game but the aiming retical is always slightly off when aiming far to the left or right
My biggest problem is when the controls work fine through most of the level but when you get to the boss it changes. It's EXTREMELY disorienting when I played through the land master section and it changed to the chicken walker controls at the end
>>335841623
I love gyro controls. Loved them in Splatoon, Game & Wario, Nintendoland, and the Zelda remakes.
That said, they just do not add anything the game here. It lead to most of my deaths in Zero due to me being distracted and not being able to focus on the screen in front of me. On top of that the Gyro keeps fucking resetting automatically which makes it fucking irritating to switch to. If you had a button you held that enabled it instead of being activated automatically every fucking time you fired it wouldn't be so bad.
>>335841146
>>335841278
The tutorial does nothing in the way of explaining what the purpose of the motion controls are. It's very vague and ambiguous and if you're doing poorly, you're going to assume its because the game requires you to use the motion controls. It also doesn't help that your team mates keep spamming "USE THE MOTION CONTROLS" during the spider segment on Corneria, when they aren't necessary at all.
The point is that the tutorial doesn't really go into depth on the motion controls and the first couple of levels make them seem a lot more important and necessary than they actually are. Aside from chicken and landmaster segments, the motion controls are rarely if at all necessary, despite being useful.
>>335841731
>Star Fox 64 forced it's control scheme
>>335841731
The difference is that at least I can emulate it now and use different, more comfortable controllers. Its one of the biggest flaws of the original and that pronged monster controller.
>>335839025
Too short.
Not as good as 64.
No surprises.
7/10
>>335841731
>Star Fox 64 forced it's control scheme, too
Oh yeah, I remember how SF64 forced you to use these new things called buttons to move around.
oh wait, it used buttons before.
>>335841850
>That said, they just do not add anything the game here
More precision and makes the cockpit sections not shit
> It lead to most of my deaths in Zero due to me being distracted and not being able to focus on the screen in front of me.
You can put the second screen on the TV by pressing minus
>>335841731
>Nintendo limiting you
No, you'd be limiting yourself.
I hope you dont play Splatoon with motion controls off.
>>335841791
What about the retarded dodge system, nonsense bullshit story, character assassination, clearly rushed environments, BABY BABY BABY BABY BABY, in addition to the shit controls? Or shit like making the gravity suit just be a purple glow?
This game is not a winner but holy fuck just because the wound is fresh doesn't make it worse than that pile of complete ass trash
>>335841731
Only SF64's controls are perfect and absolutely precise and fluid to play with for anyone with 2 hands.
>>335841942
That doesn't refute what he was saying
This is probably the one time motion controls actually change the game for the better. Just needs more content and would have been 10/10, but the lack of content is a huge shame. Anyone saying Nintendo should patch in the old controls is fucking stupid, I guess it could work but there are so many enemies you would miss with the old method of shooting that you would never 100% the game without picking up the new control scheme.
>>335841791
Then your bad at it, it's that simple.
Tons of people have had no issues and prefer the new controls.
This isn't a Skyward sword thing were the controls just don't work now and again because of how the motion controls are being used for to dramatic movements to be 100percent reliable, I've been fine and I've never had any issues.
>>335842023
Again, I hated Other M, I would give it AT BEST a 3.5 out of 10.
but Starfox Zero is a 2.5 out of 10 for being basically unplayable.
>>335842050
Literally nostalgia glasses
>>335839025
7.5/10 its as good as 64
>>335839025
>Took me about 20 mins to master the controls.
>Favorite levels are the Star Wolf levels and the Road to Venom.
>The Gyro levels were honestly a bit out of place.
>Landmaster with flying upgrade is great.
>Walker is alright.
8/10
>>335841895
>>335841942
Yeah, they forced their controls. Making something new or not doesn't make controls more forced you ass wizard. Maybe the controls are bad but calling them "forced" is completely fucking retarded.
>>335841904
This guy is fine
>>335842061
he didn't say anything anyway.
>>335841874
They're obviously for aiming. What's there to explain? Are you talking specifically about the cockpit view?
>>335842094
>This is probably the one time motion controls actually change the game for the better
So you didn't play Sin and Punishment 2? That game is easily a 9.5 GOAT contender for on-rails shooters and shames this game outright.
It's another mediocre attempt to make the Star Fox series relevant again.
But at least it plays like the originals for the most part, it doesn't turn into a bootleg zelda, or a terrible tps, or a shit dogfighting game on a system that could never handle them.
>>335841627
The game is padded out with filler.
My first route was as follows:
Corneria: On-rails with all-range mode boss.
Sector A: Short on-rails (a cross between Area 6 and Sector Y) with the second half of the mission spent fumbling in the chicken walker
Area 3: All on rails. 1/3 in the arwing, 1/3 in the chicken walker and 1/3 in the gyro copter.
Zoness: All in the gyro. Took me about 20-25 minutes to finish and I killed 25 enemies. I turned the console off in anger at this point.
Random Space Mission: All range mode where you fight some cruisers, do an objective in the chicken walker then fight star wolf. Quite a decent level.
Titania: Landmaster, on-rails. Good level, shit all-range mode boss.
Wormhole level: On rails, no enemies. Re-hash of the assault carrier from SNES/64 but all range mode and worse.
Corneria 2: Same as 1 essentially.
Andross: Good star wolf fight and shit final boss.
>>335842139
I guess all I can say is git gud
The game is bad but it isn't half as bad as Other M and is pretty playable for me and others. Maybe you have some sort of motor function disorder?
I wonder how many are shitposting because Nintendo?
>>335842170
how are n64 controls forced? they are the same as SNES controls
>>335841756
It's just flying through rings. What's to like about it?
>>335841808
"Precision aiming" is something that Star Fox never needed. The fun in star fox is the level design and objectives.
"Kill the guys in less than 5 minutes! Use your ship skills to out manuever them!"
"Shoot the switches to get to the alternate path!"
"Fly through the rings to get to the real boss!"
and so on.
Zero doesn't have any of that. Instead it has a bunch of distractions that make these objectives more irritating than fun or challenging.
"Awkwardly lineup this robot to unlock a door slowly!"
"Shoot this boss while flying sideways because otherwise you'll get hit by the shield!"
"Shoot this enemy facing straight-down because we designed it that way so the motion controls wouldn't be completely pointless!"
They have to design the game around the controller gimmick now instead of the other way around. It limits what they can do, not to mention seriously hurts performance thanks to double 60 fps rendering.
>That full speed level
THIS IS WHAT I WANTED
WHY ISN'T THERE MORE OF THIS
>>335842215
Nobody played S&P2 and a handful played it's predecessor
>>335842232
>Area 3: All on rails. 1/3 in the arwing, 1/3 in the chicken walker and 1/3 in the gyro copter.
I meant all all-range.
>>335841963
>More precision and makes the cockpit sections not shit
I disagree.
>You can put the second screen on the TV by pressing minus
that doesn't change the fact you can't see what's right in front of you when aiming in any direction other than straight.
It's really distracting that they got all the character voices and personalities wrong.
If you're trying to cash in on nostalgia, the last thing you want to do is clash with that nostalgia by not doing shit right. I hated Assault for this shit too.
I got used to tne controls in 2 hours replaying Corneria
The game's presentation is fucking fantastic and worthy of Platinum's name
It's only real flaw is being a soft reboot
Would've been better off with new shit but I'll let that slide, if a sequel happens it's guranteed to let Platinum be creative.
All range Land Master is absolute fucking perfection
Gyrowing is blegh but I still like it better than the fucking sub since you can actually shoot shit.
Also no Multiplayer sucks, I absolutely loved tne Star Wolf fights but not being able to do it yourself sucks
Otherwise it's great for Platinum's first try
I expect better next time, and while I didn't have a problem with it, they should do something for all the casuals
>>335842306
You can't choose any other controls system. They're forced. That's what people are usually bitching about when they complain about Zero's controls being forced. Did you mean something different?
>>335842342
>"Precision aiming" is something that Star Fox never needed. The fun in star fox is the level design and objectives.
It raised the skill ceiling. I'm sorry you can't get good.
SFZ had a ton of objectives, that's how you got gold medals.
>>335842232
hmm, sounds like I'll regret buying it. It sunds like its so cloxe to what I wanted but like they couldn't help themselves froma dding in pointless stuff and it drags down the experience.
and with such limited content for todays tastes it's no wonder they gave us guard for free.
I'll have to wait for a sale then. thanks.
>>335842215
S&P2 is amazing (except for that one "fighting game" moment), but there's some minor differences that makes it super different.
S&P limits your FOV, you can only shoot on-screen, cant look to the sides or anything.
Also your movement is fairly 2D, you cant run faster or walk slower.
S&P works better with a wiimote than a gamepad, but Star Fox works better with the gamepad.
Also, I'm honestly shocked S&P 2 exists. Nintendo is weird sometimes but in a good way.
>>335842471
>I got used to the controls in 2 hours
>2 hours
>>335842232
>Zoness
>20-25 minutes
>25 enemies killed
How? It's like a five minute stage and maybe double that if you're trying to kill absolutely everything.
>>335842615
>S&P limits your FOV, you can only shoot on-screen, cant look to the sides or anything.
gee, it's almost like people enjoyed the on-rails segments in Star Fox.
>>335842471
>game's presentation is fucking fantastic
I personally think it could've benefited from being more cinematic. It feels like there's no build-up to any of the fights in this game. I'd get wanting to retain the flow of gameplay, but still, it ends up feeling a bit bland as a result.
>>335839025
I enjoyed it. I was able to get a hang of the controls pretty quickly, then again playing a shitton of Splatoon could have helped with that. I can see why people don't like the Gyrowing but I feel like they exaggerate how bad it is. In all honesty I feel like the Gyrowing stages are the perfect way to get a hang of the new controls. The Walker is amazing though and Gravmaster is a pretty neat way to mix up the Landmaster segments.
I wish there were more stages though. 8/10
>>335842584
>It raised the skill ceiling.
It worsened the level design and enemy design.
>>335842431
>that doesn't change the fact you can't see what's right in front of you when aiming in any direction other than straight.
Then you switch back to default view. You're supposed to switch to cockpit for precision and default for a larger view. Like zooming in on a FPS
>>335842615
I'd rather have my FOV limited than have so much goddamn FOV that I need to look between 2 screens to get it all.
>>335842749
How
>>335842642
Certainly felt like 25 minutes. I didn't count.
I remember battling with the fucking robot trying to "hack" in the shield generator. Didn't realise you could just let the thing hang down so that took a while too.
I just remember being extremely angry while thinking "this isn't fucking star fox, this is so shit".
>>335842756
That's not fucking fun though. And comparing to zooming in is a painfully bad analogy. Not nearly as quick.
>>335842584
Having shit controls does not raise the skill ceiling, it lowers the game quality.
>No multiplayer
>Gyrowing sucks
>Controls really are clunky and obtuse, didn't get used to them until the very end, even then still not that great and barely have any golds or medals
>No different endings despite branching paths
>No unlockables besides permanently unlocking the amiibo shit
>Walker controls are clunky as all fucking shit, why do I have to use the right stick to turn, let me strafe you motherfuckers
>Bosses are always all range mode, no scrolling bosses
>VOICES COME OUT OF THE GAMEPAD WITH NO WAY TO CHANGE THIS COME THE FUCK ON
>Played co-op with my girlfriend, game is balanced towards being able to aim with the gamepad, can't hit shit as P2 unless it's directly in your face
Overall I say it deserves it's mixed reviews, I think it's fun and I'm gonna keep playing it but it CLEARLY has some issues
Just put Assault on the eShop already
>>335842694
The on-rails segments of SF0 does not limit your FOV. That's why i pointed out the "side" things. You cant see behind you, but you can still see to the left, right, up, down. You can move the camera angle around, you cant do this in S&P.
And Treasure, the geniuses they are, makes amazing use of it. They know what they're doing.
Treasure knows they can do great shit knowing they know what I see at every moment.
>nintendo continues to bastardize my childhood with forced gimmick controls
I wish they would focus on gameplay instead of this shit
I got used to the controls, but I absolutely hate the camera for boss fights, especially the alternate path boss in the first level. What's worse is that people defend it by telling me shit like "GIT GUD" even though it isn't fun or rewarding to begin with. More visibility in the bottom screen cockpit ala Ace Combat would've helped.
What absolutely baffles me, is that instead of reviving/remaking Star Fox 2, they do a nostalgiabait cashgrab of Star Fox 64, even though we already got a remake/remaster of the game for the 3DS.
Overall, a meh experience. Reviewers were right to give it a 6 or 7. I would personally say 6.5/10. Pretty much 3 stars.
>>335842694
>That's not fucking fun though.
It is if you're good
>And comparing to zooming in is a painfully bad analogy. Not nearly as quick.
It's fast enough. The enemies don't move that quick so you're supposed to bring it up in advance if you know you gotta place some precise shots
>>335839025
I think the review scores are so low because reviewers didn't really understand that the meat and potatoes of any Star Fox game is replaying it over and over. I think all they graded on was playing Story Mode once or twice, and not Arcade Mode as the main chunk of the game.
I loved the new gyro controls. I think they were about the last way you could have really added to the Star Fox gameplay formula. The game benefits from them, though in most cases you could have replaced them with the right stick. I do like how the cockpit view is more useful, I loved it in 64 but the accuracy wasn't worth losing so much of your view in that game. Chicken Walker should have had strafe on by default instead of it being depended on locking on. The gyrowing is fine, it was made to help you master the gyro aiming and Direct-i a cute. Any issues with it aren't that pressing because you don't have to use it when you replay the game. The landmaster controls the best out of any time it's been featured.
My issues with the game are the lacking main planet missions. I think the paths are fine because arcade mode keeps track of your time and hits separately. So where some people complain the alternate paths just shorten the game, that's almost the point. Taking a boss fight path in arcade mode is shorter than finishing the level, but the fights are usually harder than their respective levels so it's a risk vs reward thing. While difficulty doesn't change in a huge way when you just have the one life on any given mission, I think it does help make the 2nd half of any particular playthrough more tense.
I already like playing through arcade mode with no real objective other than to play the game again. I give it 3 out of 4 on a scale of shit-no-yes-great. And it's just $50. In a world where Star Fox 64 has an 88 metacritic, and Assault has a 67, Zero deserves a 75-80 metacritic score. So basically the median between 64 and Assault, plus or minus 2.5.
>>335839025
idk how many times we have to repeat it was good but it needed more sempai.
I miss krystal.
>>335842471
>I expect better next time
Don't kid yourself, I think all the glowing reviews the game is getting is probably going to bury this series back into the ground for another 10 years. Or possibly forever who knows and I think this game is great, but I am clearly in the minority. Being a StarFox fan is suffering
>>335842851
Do you expect me to write this fucking post >>335842342 again? I already explained how and you conveniently ignored it.
>>335839025
I like it
First playthough was coop, but then I started playing alone and got more or less gud
Unlike most people I dislike dogfights, maybe I just need to find the right strategy, but I'm enjoying more the on rails levels and the all range mode ones.
Story is ok, can't say much about the music since the gamepad audio is louder than tv (who decided that all FX should also come out from gamepad?)
>>335843026
They did. Git gud.t. Everyone defending motion controls
>>335843035
One of the things that bugged the shit out of me is that firing on the TV for certain bosses was straight up inaccurate. Like in the Andross fight, where you have to shoot the BIG GLOWING BUTTONS on his hands, I was aiming directly at them at the TV but the shots were off, I had to use the Gamepad to aim.
On the whole I actually kinda like the game, but if that shit was an intentional choice to force you to use the gamepad more, then it's really fucking retarded.
What's the point of the gyrowing when it's slow it feels like shit to control and everything it does can be done by the walker 10x faster?
>>335841514
>can't remap SMB3 controls
>game's controls are therefore shit
lel
>>335842913
I'd say having the option to kill faster and aim better through gyro does raise the skill ceiling. As does having to time and switch views with the minus button
>>335842584
By your logic QWOP has great controls.
>>335843035
Enough with Starfox 2. It was really cool playing the full unreleased game and it was really ambitious, but it wasn't good.
They put the strategy half of the game and the randomly generated levels into Command. Guess what, Command was shit.
They put the chicken walker and modeled the camera after it in Zero, guess what, Zero was shit.
I mean Starfox 2 is still MILES better than Command and Zero but it's not great enough to bother remaking.
>>335839025
Controls are great, presentation is good, but some of the levels are very lacking.
The on-rails sections are fantastic. If they had cut out crap like the Gyrowing sections, Zoness altogether, and one of the asteroid belt missions and replaced them with on-rails levels it would be the best SF game ever made. As it stands there's just not enough variety in the levels or the objectives.
Still miles ahead of Command, Assault, and Adventures.
>>335843331
This shit drives me up the fucking wall.
I don't think it's worth getting angry about.
They're heading in the right direction and made it enjoyable, if divisive (although Jimquisition's review was fucking ridiculous), so just leave them to continue.
I'd rather play Command than Zero. Command at least had good controls and had Slippy's route which was based.
>>335843131
>because reviewers didn't really understand that the meat and potatoes of any Star Fox game is replaying it over and over.
but that isn't in Zero. Most missions only have one pathway you can take.
>>335842114
>This isn't a Skyward sword thing were the controls just don't work now and again
No it's exactly like Skyward Sword because the controls in that game don't just break either. You know how to use them or you don't. Zero has a recenter button just like SS did. It's just that Zero only uses the gyro, where SS needed you to know what did what a bit more than the average player might intuit on their own.
When you get it down, it's a great game.
I'd say B/B+ material at least. Dogfights with Star Wolf are the best, and though the gyrowing isn't as good as the rest it's inoffensive in my opinion.
>>335843520
>heading in the right direction
>by making the game worse
what
>>335843264
The only thing I see about enemy design is the shit about a really easy to kill enemy. And the mini objectives and alternate routes are still there
This game is ten times better co-op than it is single player
Primarily because the pilot gets to use wiimote+nunchuck and have barrel rolls assigned to the D-pad
>>335843726
>They have to design the game around the controller gimmick now instead of the other way around. It limits what they can do
>>335843706
Nah it's the right direction because they made the game better
>>335843131
That's pretty much how I feel too. 7/10 would be a fine score because of what it's lacking, but the grading system is fucked up so anything below 8/10 means trash to most people.
The game could easily be a 9/10 if they add more planet stages and bosses as free DLC. Also, they should change barrel rolling to clicking the right stick instead of having double tap.
>>335843413
Chicken walker could've been amazing in the right developer's hands. As someone who's played Armored Core and few other mech games, CW's strafing was laughably stupid compared to other mech game's strafing.
What really bugs me is that the reticule for the standard piloting view isn't accurate at all and seems like a kind of estimate of where your shots are going to go.
Compare that to 64 and it's just disgusting. People have been saying 'HURR JUST BE SHOOTING CONSTANTLY AND AIM USING THE LASERS', but you shouldn't have to do that in the first place.
>>335843181
i hate this meme, it will probably warrant a sequel.
>>335843810
Not really. They gyro aiming improves the game since you can move in a direction and shoot in a different one at the same time. Also better aiming through Gyro. Besides don't act like weak points are a new thing to Star Fox
What Arcade Mode is what the whole game should be but extended.
>>335843335
I'd assume it was meant for the player to get used to the gyro controls by slowing the game down a bit. Corneria and the first parts of Sector alpha were pretty overwhelming the first time around and the gyrowing sort of helped me get comfortable. It still probably my least favorite level, though I didn't hate it too much.
>>335844042
Except that doing so with worse controls makes the game worse, not fucking better. It might be more complex gameplay technically, but complexity has nothing to do with how good a game is.
Play Unlimited SaGa and then play Smash TV right after if you want a direct example.
>>335844036
I've had that problem with the walker, like the tv view aim seems correct but with the cockpit view is like 10 miles off the target.
>>335844036
You hold it straight it shoot in fron of your Arwing. Tilt it left and it shoot left of your Arwing. You can tell where your shots go by looking at where your Arwing is and being aware of where you point you gyro
>>335844058
Arcade Mode isn't totally accurate to the old games, though. For one you can actually have more than 1 life in the old games.
>>335844042
> Besides don't act like weak points are a new thing to Star Fox
Weak points and precision aiming are two different things entirely. You don't have to jump through hoops to hit a weak point.
Would we even have levels as shitty as Zoness if the motion controls weren't in this game? What can you do with the gyro controls you couldn't do before in SF64?
>>335844262
SFZ is a lot shorter and easier. There's no need to have more than 1 life.
>>335843601
>Command had good controls
Okay buddy
>>335844230
Ok how does having more movement and aiming options with more precise shooting worse? If that's not the issue how are the controls bad?
>>335843706
Well for a start, I said that it's divisive.
The main flaw of the game is the lack of content in general.
The Arwing, Landmaster and Walker gameplay are all good, but the fact that they don't use it enough and favour things like the Gyrowing is rather irritating. This is genuinely my opinion without any hyperbole.
>>335842232
>Took me about 20-25 minutes to finish and I killed 25 enemies.
Holy shit how bad are you?
>>335842860
Oh, you're stupid and that's the game's fault.
lel
>>335844334
>Zero
>Easier than SF64
When was the last time you played Star Fox 64? I beat the Hard Mode in that shit when I was 8, and I couldn't even beat OoT when I was 8.
>>335844409
You're ignoring the point dumbass. Just the fact that it is harder to aim now doesn't mean the game is more challenging. It just means they put an obstacle between you and the game.
>>335844427
the main flaw of the game is the controls and level design.
if this game had as much content as 64 and also controlled like an actual video game, I'd be fine with it.
>>335843864
>The game could easily be a 9/10 if they add more planet stages and bosses as free DLC
LISTEN TO THIS MAN NINTENDO ID BUY IT EVEN IF ITS PAID TOO THE LACK OF CONTENT IS THE REAL REASON THIS SHIT IS 71/100
>>335844526
Or to be more accurate, the Hard Path. I'm retarded.
>>335844303
>Weak points and precision aiming are two different things entirely
To hit weak points you typically have to aim precisely at it.
>You don't have to jump through hoops to hit a weak point.
Yes you do. It's called aiming
>Would we even have levels as shitty as Zoness if the motion controls weren't in this game?
Zoness is fine
>What can you do with the gyro controls you couldn't do before in SF64?
Aim better. Move and shoot in a different direction
>>335844219
Then why isn't it part of the tutorial level that they force me to do anyways and not 2 levels after, why do they need to stop the game dead for like 10 minutes for me to slowly go through this sewers when with the airwing i could do it 2x faster.
I want Mark from CGR to review this.
You know a game is shit when he hates it, his criteria for a game being good and worth playing is that it's playable and works.
>>335844536
>Just the fact that it is harder to aim now doesn't mean the game is more challenging
Good thing it's easier to aim now. If you don't wave the gyro like an idiot.
I'm tempted to go out and buy this shit tonight. I'm a poor college kid though. Buying this game would drain my bank account about 25% and I really can't afford it. But I want it. Badly.
Tell me what to do.
>>335844650
>Aim better. Move and shoot in a different direction
and why is this an advantage?
>>335844836
The game is fucking awful and I'm sad I even wasted money on it.
at least Starfox Guard is kind of fun
>>335844691
>It just means they put an obstacle between you and the game.
There has to be at least 1 mediocre/shit mode of play in every Star Fox. It's in the design docs passed down by Miyamoto kun
>>335844836
Wait.
>LITERALLY the only Wii U games this year are Mario and Sonic at the Casual Rehash games, Pokken Tournament which is mediocre, and Starfox Zero which is shit
my god, my fucking god Nintendo
this is the worst year I've seen for a console since the PS3 launched.
>>335844919
Because now you can dodge without relenting your attack in a lot of cases unlike 64. Since your offense is less interrupted now you can kill enemies quicker provided you can keep on target. Also now you can do drive by shootings off to the side since you can actually turn your Arwings guns. It gives you more approaches in All Range
>>335844691
I'm just guessing here. Maybe they thought if the game opened with the gyrowing players would immediately return the game. Give the player an idea of whats to come with the regular gameplay in easier levels (Corneria and Sector alpha) then prepare them for harder levels with the gyrowing.
Again, I'm just trying to find reason for the gyrowing here. I had some trouble adjusting those first two levels (I took way more damage than I would like to admit in Corneria of all places) and I think after the gyrowing I got used to how the game played.
>>335845228
Nah. PS4 had and still has a worse library
>>335844598
I'd be okay with paying up to $10 for DLC for the game as it's being sold for $50 alone. It'd have to brings SF0 up to SF64 number of stages and includes at least three rail stages.
I'd be pissed if they started to jew stages at $5 per planet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qsfc-ZRP9AU
This is pretty cool.
>>335845379
Get this shit out of here. SFZ has a shit OST. Worse then fucking Adventure
>>335841731
W E W L A D
E
W
L
A
D
>>335843608
The word 'paths' does not appear anywhere in what you copied from my post.
You aren't one of those faggots that needs new content to replay a game, are you?
99% of the time I'm replaying Ocarina of Time, Star Fox 64, Metroid Prime, Chrono Trigger, etc. there's no new content left for me to play. I just like gameplay I like.
And with Arcade Mode it's not just replaying the same thing, I have a goal in mind when I'm picking what paths to take through Zero to either minimize time or maximize hits.
I don't think this game is the second coming of Christ, I just think it's a few points better than what most reviewers are saying right now and that scores like Jim Sterling's 20 and Giant Bomb's 40 are a bit ridiculous.
>>335845379
And it's after that precise moment the game decides to give up and give you shit levels until the end.
>>335845379
worse than 64 and Assault by a mile.
>>335845229
>Because now you can dodge without relenting your attack in a lot of cases unlike 64
We've already said that dodging while aiming is not possible in Star Fox Zero. The gyro spazes out and beyond that you can't see what's in front of you or behind you while looking through to the side.
>>335845332
2016 is the year PS4 finally gets games, family
Started good with Ratchet & Clank, Uncharted 4 is coming next month, and for the rest of the year there's TLG, Gravity Rush 2, Nier Automata, Gran Turismo Sport, Wild, Wattam, Yakuza 6 and DQXI (home console).
it's by far, one of the ugliest games nintendo has ever made.
>>335839025
Why isn't this Wii remote plus nunchuck like sin and punishment? This and kid Icarus were such missed opprutunities, fuck gyro controls light gun moths fucka.
>>335845512
Giant Bomb was right. Nobody wants to play on rails shooters or flight sims anymore. Nobody really wanted a new Star Fox constrained to an Arwing. You thought you did but you didn't
>>335845537
Are you saying the game has levels that aren't shit?
Granted I only played the first 3 missions before returning the game but those were all complete unplayable shit.
>>335845728
>You thought you did but you didn't
Are we going to revive the artificial fun meme?
>>335845379
Probably my favorite rendition of the theme. Assault's soundtrack was probably better on the whole, but I thought its Star Wolf theme really lacked energy.
>>335845728
I'll buy an excellent On-Rails Shooter, Sin and Punishment 2 was arguably the single best game on the Wii.
This game is just shit. I'll take a great Starfox game with good level design and real controls, just not this.
>>335842519
Except they were traditional controls that everyone had no problems with.
>>335845623
>We've already said that dodging while aiming is not possible in Star Fox Zero.
Totally can.
>The gyro spazes out
It only moves when you move. Stop spazzing
>beyond that you can't see what's in front of you or behind you while looking through to the side.
If you feel like you need to watch out behind or look far away, hit minus and get out of cockpit view
>>335845303
I'm with this anon. They needed to start the game with the Arwing and not the Gyrowing or fans would be even more pissed. Once you play with the Arwing and start to see the controls as possibly overwhelming, they give you the Gyrowing to sort it out more before the more difficult levels. The Gyrowing is a tutorial but, like Dragon's Dogma, they wanted to start the game with something more indicative of later stages' gameplay. That's why the Gyrowing is optional on later playthroughs, it's a tutorial vehicle.
can we all agree that shigeru miyamoto is a hack?
>pikmin 3 dumbs down pikmin 2 and removes all enjoyable aspects in favor of pure gameplay
>tells intelligent systems to remove all story and original characters from sticker star
>refuses to make a new f-zero because he thinks there isn't anything new they could do with the series
>releases a mediocre sequel to one of their most beloved franchises with shoehorned motion controls
>last time he was at e3, he showed off gimmicky half-finished prototypes as if it were some kind of huge achievement
meanwhile everything successful he was credited with before, can be credited to koizumi instead. except for maybe super mario bros.1 and the legend of zelda, although let's be real those games weren't very good anyway.
he's literally the george lucas of videogames.
>>335845886
See
>You thought you did but you didn't
You think you want S&P3 but you don't. You've outgrown the genre that doesn't have a place in modern gaming
>>335845332
It's catching up.
>EDF 4.1 (yes, it's a remaster, but it's still great)
>Bloodborne
>Nioh
>Nier: Automata
>Star Ocean 5
>Gravity Rush Remastered and 2
>The Last GuardianShut up. I know what you're thinking.
Having multiplats kinda helps, too.
10 years later, still the king.shame you can't buy it anymore
>>335846012
I love this game but fuck the Gyrowing. Just put more Arwing
Anyone else think the Walker worked a lot better in open spaces than in small, confined rooms and corridors?
>>335846012
Why the hacking and being able to pick up only explosive boxes though?
>>335846193
Why did it get pulled?
>>335844543
But it does control like a video game.
>>335846134
>>335845647
>Ratchet & Clank,
Eh. Most of the rest of the series is still better
> TLG,doesn't exist
>Star Ocean 5
I thought the series was trash now. Last I played was Til the End of TIme
>>335846263
Licensing for the jets ran out. Same reason versions of Outrun got pulled.
>>335846402
Like a shitty video game maybe. It doesn't control like a real video game.
I haven't been paying attention to the retarded shit people've been throwing around at this game, got it last night and did two levels.
Its not bad, the controls ARE weird as fuck, but I can see myself getting used to them, they're not that complicated.
However, what i don't like is how sterile the rest of the game feels.
Like I get that they were trying to go back to mimicking thunderbirds tier dialog, but it feels like the part that most resembles star fox is the mimicry. The repeating dialog and the blatant hand holdy kinda orders they get you to do tutorial shit feels a little patronizing and they repeat their lines like 3 times in the space of a minute.
I weary, but I'll still enjoy the fun thats there.
>>335846531
But it does control good
>>335846412
R&C is great senpai
It's the not best in the series but it's a good game and a solid entry.
>>335840342
Redbox is how I play most AAA games like Assassins Creed and the like. It's cheap for a day or two and that's all you usually need
Controls are a bit shit. From functionality swapping inconsistently among different crafts, to mapping barrel rolls to the stick, to having 0 remapping options.
Too much All-Range mode; forced lock-on for bosses makes it even worse. Forcing you to use cockpit view was a shit idea, as was having it mapped to the gamepad all the time.
Needs maybe 1.5x the amount of missions, and a planet or two extra wouldn't hurt. I also would've liked to see the Blue Marine come back.
Game seriously lacks on-rail segments, and the fact that there isn't a single on-rails boss is unforgivable.
Difficulty felt about right, but there needed to be an Expert Mode with extra spawns. There is some weird shit with bosses though, like the one with legs having it's legs turn invulnerable with no visible clue that they are.
Lack of online multiplayer dog fighting is also a minus I guess, but they already did that with Sub Wars.
Story isn't bad, but the dialogue lacked compared to SF64.
>>335846563
Oh, and to add to my already useless post;
I understand why the game is as "slow" as it is now, with the controls it feels like there is so much more happening at once than there actually is simply because of how you're expected to maneuver your tandem gyro and flight controls.
I hate that I have to buy a falco amiibo for hard mode though, thats steams me.
>>335846531
>real video game
I had no idea I was playing a fake video game. The Gyro is probably one of the most well needed addition due to how it affects shooters. Its far more accurate than twin joysticks.
>>335846579
>It's the not best in the series but it's a good game and a solid entry.
From what I've seen although it's got the potential through sequels to shape up to be incredible, it's still not the best of it's series or a system seller. I'll admit I was wrong and the rest of the list you guys posted looks interesting
>>335846720
Yet not half as accurate as a single joystick or infrared control.
The controls in this game are like if you woke up to someone shoving a buttplug into you and said you had to go about your day without removing it.
It wouldn't require you to "git gud". It'd just be extremely uncomfortable and irritating, and if you dared to complain about it, everyone who likes it would complain that your ass just isn't loose enough.
That's what my experience in discussing the problems with this game have been like.
5/10.
>>335846676
Cockpit view can be put on the tv by pressing Select/-.
>>335846803
Nah I would have to say that its more accurate
>>335846939
Please tell me how SF0's motion controls, which require a dedicated recalibration button, are more accurate than Sin and Punishment 2's controls.
>>335846676
>Controls are a bit shit.
Could be better but mostly disagree
>Too much All-Range mode;
Not enough All Range in my opinion
>forced lock-on for bosses makes it even worse
I'll agree with this. What were they thinking
>as was having it mapped to the gamepad all the time.
Nah I think it's cool
>Needs maybe 1.5x the amount of missions, and a planet or two extra wouldn't hurt
>I also would've liked to see the Blue Marine come back.
Blue Marine a shit
>Lack of online multiplayer dog fighting is also a minus I guess,
Agreed
>Story isn't bad, but the dialogue lacked compared to SF64.
Agreed. They should have went full cheese
>>335841180
As a person who would give this game a solid 8/10, I will say I was disappointed in the objectives and the lack of a proper route/ending split. 64 was damn good at that
>>335846995
I never had to recalibrate. While I don't think it's better, I think it was on par
>>335846995
Aiming in Zero doesn't require as much motion as it does in S&P plus there is more jitter with a Wii Remote than there is with the Gyro. The recalibration button is there because unlike the wii remote the controller doesn't respond to a sensor bar. Plus if you're smart you can use that recalibration button to be a shortcut to looking forward on the gamepad screen after shooting something.
>>335847285
I have no idea what you're on, I never had any jitter problems with Sin and Punishment, yet in Starfox Zero when I am HOLDING THE CONTROLLER STILL the fucking reticule scoots around.
>>335846845
dude, nice post
>>335846845
Why did you pay for a buttplug?
>>335839025
Its good not the best but more fun then I thought.
Its hard as ass though trying to get high scores.
>>335847463
Well i've never had jitter problems with Zero but i've found the reticle bouncing around in S&P.
>Cons
Too short
Story is nothing
Gameplay has an insane learning curve that isn't fun
Gyrocopter
SF64 AGAIN
>Pros
Gameplay feels really damn good if you actually make the effort to learn it
Looks pretty
No Krystal
>>335847463
Maybe your hands are shaking anon? Does Star Fucks get you nervous?
Starfox Zero has a huge learning curve but there's no enjoyment to be found getting past that learning curve.
>>335846863
Yeah, I should of said:
>as was having the second screen show another view all the time.
>>335847034
>Could be better but mostly disagree
I should probably point out I'm not complaining about gyro.
>Not enough All Range in my opinion
It's literally All All Range mode all of the time, what the fuck are you smoking dude?
>Nah I think it's cool
How is it different from pressing a button to toggle your view?
>Blue Marine a shit
Nah it was fun because it had weapons which were different. Which I guess is another complaint, what purpose does the Landmaster serve?
>Agreed. They should have went full cheese
The script just felt flat, so I don't think the actors hamming it up would have helped.
So is star fox 64 3D still the best star fox game to date?
>>335846713
I've heard you can unlock the amiibo bonuses after you beat the game. Could be wrong though
>>335848139
>It's literally All All Range mode all of the time, what the fuck are you smoking dude?
The parts that were chicken and Gyro weren't
>How is it different from pressing a button to toggle your view?
It's not. That's why I'm alright with it
>The script just felt flat, so I don't think the actors hamming it up would have helped.
Nobody remembers 64 for the actual lines. It's because they were hamming it up and were cheesy as fuck that people enjoyed it. Alternatively they could have a interesting story played straight and I would have been cool with it
>>335848270
knock the 3D off and you'll be accurate
>bland rehash of 64
>didn't even have Macbeth
>>335848379
You mean star fox 64 3D without the 3D? I thought that was ovbvious. Or do you mean the original blocky shit SF64? Because if so you're delusional.
>>335848491
>implying low-poly isn't charming
>implying the voice acting doesn't make the game, and 64 definitely had better voice acting
>>335839025
It's officially dropped down to indefensible-level.
>>335847976
>Too short
I agree, but it's okay.
>Story is nothing
There's a problem when this is the second thing you bring up. In an arcade-style shooting game.
>insane learning curve that isn't fun
I legitimately don't understand this, even if you're just referring to the haters.
>Gyrocopter
Super fun, much preferred over the Grav/Landmaster IMO.
>SF64 AGAIN
What fans of SF64 have spent the last 19 years begging for, and not a literal remaster on a handheld. Not even one of the levels in SFZ is the same as SF64. The closest is Sector Gamma to Area 6, but Sector Gamma is actually fun.
>>335846995
Well first of all, Sin and Punishment's aiming isn't like Star Fox's. In S&P, you hit where the reticle is aiming. In SF, you have a double reticle that shows the projected trajectory of your shots when not in cockpit view.
Second, SFZ allows you to aim beyond the screen or about a 120 degrees of movement. Using the cockpit view, you can view all of this although not all at once. Now Wii games that allow for camera control with the wiimote have the issue of having to maintain a line of sight between the sensor bar and the wiimote. For the cameras, this means turning the view at a set rate once you point near to the edge of the screen with the reticle. This would cause a disconnect in SFZ where either the cockpit view and behind ship view have two different movement speeds for the reticle or where you can aim quickly in the center of the screen in cockpit view but it will have to turn at a set speed when you want to turn your view. You also wouldn't be able to shoot outside of the screen when not in cockpit view using the wiimote like you can with the gamepad.
Essentially, the wiimote's IR aiming can work just as fine if not better than the gamepads gyro controls when what you want to shoot at is already on screen, but turning is slower with the wiimote and being able to shoot things off screen would not be possible with the wiimote.
