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Next expansion gear will have one stat on it and it will be called "+good", the more good you have on your gear the better you are at healing/tanking/dpsing. Also everyone gets to dual wield Ashbringers
Heeey, you got a reply this time!
Why do they keep doing this? is it that hard for people to understand stats?
... is spirit not a stat anymore now either?
>level 110
>>335097667
You joke but at the end of the day you really could just average all the various stats together and create one generic stat that represents how effective you'll be at... anything. It doesn't really matter.
>>335098082
Level 200 confirmed!
>>335098035
It's still a stat
It's just not displayed for Mages, Warlocks, or presumably hybrid classes now (in their dps spec)
Spirit is also only on trinkets, rings, and necklaces.
>>335098190
It already exists, anon. It's versatility.
>>335097301
>Casualisation.jpg
what a way to go...
doesn't actually look that bad...
There are other things in legion to complain about this is rather minor
What did they mean by this?
>>335097301
HOLY FUCK THIS IS REAL
I can't wait to see this thread re-posted ad nauseam for the next month
>>335098035
>>335098216
Spirit is gone now, actually. Mana regen is basically static in Legion, because Blizzard realized that there's no way to tune that shit that doesn't result in either healers being completely mana-starved at the start of an expansion cycle, healers having way too much mana at the end of an expansion cycle (so fights have to be tuned around huge damage bursts and constant heal spamming,) or both. Better to just have healers be at the level of mana that's actually fun to play with the whole time.
>People are saying this shit is good
WoW is dead
So all it's doing is hiding the stats that are useless for your class.
What's wrong with that? It currently shows it, just in a different color.
>>335100907
>Better to just have healers be at the level of mana that's actually fun to play with the whole time.
So you mean early Cata heroic raid style, where every big heal you cast was actually an important decision and you had to tightly manage your resources? Honestly that was the most fun I've ever had in any videogame. I've never felt more like a hero in a game than I did saving raid members from the brink of death back in Cata when healing was actually fucking hard.
>>335097301
>casual game becomes even more casual
>better make a thread about it
>>335101192
>i like the new stat screen, in all honesty i have no clue what 1/2 the stuff on the current one is or why its important for me to know it
>>335101837
>hover over stat
>"this stat has no effect on your class."
Your right. Displaying all of the useless stats is such a great use of space.
>>335102104
>actually defending this nonsense
I honestly cannot believe /v/ is really coming to this
What the fuck is happening?
Tell me why this is a big deal again?
>>335097301
So they finally merged Diablo 3 and WoW into one product?
>>335102287
What's wrong with it?
>>335102287
>/v/ will actually defend a casual game doing more casual shit that none of us should be playing in the first place
>>335102287
Does it really matter?
A mage has no way to raise strength and strength has no effect on a mage at all.
Displaying "Strength: 0" with a tooltip that says "this stat has no effect on your class" is just a waste of space.
This isn't "casualizing" anything, it's just cleaning up the UI.
can anyone else confirm that is actually real
>>335097301
>>335101584
why do all PC's in WoW slouch all the goddamn time
that was one of the reasons I couldn't get into WoW, as petty as it is
nobody has any fucking good posture
>>335102870
http://www.wowhead.com/news=252561/legion-build-21531-data-updates-new-demon-hunter-tier-19-artifact-knowledge-and-
I mean at first glance it's awful, but that's pretty much all the useful info a mage would need. I assume melee would also have MH/OH damage and such like that. There's not really any reason a mage needs to know their str/agi/melee dmg/etc.
>>335097667
I'm actually surprised they don't just dynamically calculate stats based off the item level uniquely for each class/spec already. It's not like they really do anything interesting with the stats on equipment anymore.
BANANA TRINKET
BANANA BIS
>i have played since the start of the game
>i have done M HFC
> i still have not gotten a Alpha invite
>there are people who have just started in WoD and done nothing that have gotten invites
>>335103462
Old players are mostly whiners, it doesnt pay to give them invites.
>>335103026
Man I don't even play anymore but all bad changes still make me sad
DELETE THIS
BLIZZARD CAN DO NO WRONG
>>335103550
go fuck yourself straight in the ass faggotron.
most old players who still actively play the game actually understand what the fuck is going on.
They are literally copying diablo 3 now into WoW because the masses of fucking retards who love LOOKING FOR RETARDS raids which are a fucking blasphemy anyways, are the majority and actual raiders doing mythic content are such a minority that they stopped giving a shit about not casualizing the game to a point where bots are more efficient at it than players since the rotation includes 1, 2, 3, and maybe 4 if you get a flashy animation on your screen. Fuck you. anyone on /v/ saying " OH I BOUGHT GAME TIME AND DID LFR AND SAW THE CONTENT AND UNSUBBED" you are the literal fucking casual scum cancerous faggots who ruin this fucking game.
>>335102287
why does it matter to you?
they pruned off the use for other stats a long time ago
now that they pull it off your display altogether then NOW you get all pissy about it?
ima be real with you all. Artifacts look cool as hell. Sadly it seems like a lot of the cool talents dont even work in pvp. Strictly the pve talent tree. Abit sad since all I do is pvp
>>335102941
Spotted the dindu red team street shitter.
you know they could simplify it further.
why would a mage care about his armor or versatility?
It's WoD all over again. Holy Christ Blizzard is hopeless. I feel bad for the people who still give them money.
>>335102941
That's an undead retard. Zombies aren't known for their posture. You probably played Horde because all Alliance races besides Worgen male stand upright just fine.
>>335104428
because PvP. why would they not care about their versatility?
on the top of versatility, it's a very boring stat, and just a replacement for resilience.
>>335104510
>THEY'RE BRINGING GARRISONS BACK
>ACTUALLY BRINGING GARRISONS BACK
>BLIZZARD IS BRINGING GARRISONS BACK
>plays wow after wrath
You deserve it
Give a reason why this is bad besides "casual."
Do you really need to know your strength as a mage?
>>335104807
You think you don't like Garrisons, but you do!
>item level is the largest and flashiest stat
for what purpose
>>335097301
The most hardcore have fans have left a long time ago when Blizzard started casualizing. Now they're allowed to go full retard with it so the lowest common denominator will stay subbed. Congratulations, Blizz.
It needs to be streamlined and simplified for the eventual console release.
Well, at least I still have path of exile, where even shit gear makes me think.
>>335101192
this is literally the blizzard target audience
>>335105178
because everything is simplified to that value
>after legion hits we're going to get cataclysm 2.0
>except its just going to be pre legion 'difficulty'
>And anyone who would have given 2 fucks about difficulty will never want to play another blizzard game ever again
>>335105178
So you can request that people bring an item level character of 840 to a dungeon which drops 810 gear
>>335097301
what are the 3 tabs at the top for? one of these has to have all the deeps meters right?
I'm genuinely surprised Blizzard hasn't pared down the item slots to just head, body, feet, and 1 accessory. Still including a tabard and shirt tab? What the fuck Blizzard?
If this expansion doesn't flop I'm quitting video games.
>>335105726
Because...?
>>335105480
>Blizzard game
>Difficult
Since when? Because they've never made one.
>>335105778
Blizzard is setting the trend of dumbing down video games.
>>335105178
For dumb fucks who would rather have a player's entire worth boiled down to a number. Do you remember the AIDS that was Gearscore in Wrath? When all people cared about was your gs? Blizzard loved it so much that they made it official
>>335105817
Diablo 2 and even vanilla WoW were difficult in comparison to these standards.
>>335097301
>mfw Gearscore was the cause of this
>>335099379
>More idiotic toybox shit
Hate that shit, always hated it in WoW. Oh so funny, you are a ninja, or pirate or skeleton. Haha.
Oh and you used that cool flute, never seen that. And hey you are Gamon, how funny!
>>335105825
>Blizzard is responsible for dumbing down video games
I think you should go play Warcraft 1 again because that was probably one of the simplest video games ever made
And that was over 20 years ago
>>335097301
>pve cucks getting cucked more and more
>pvp will be more balanced with stat templates and pvp exclusive talents
ayy lmaostat templates will limit playstyle choice but it's worth it if they manage to reach better balance
>>335106458
I always had a small stash of 'fun' items like that because they gave you something to dink around with while waiting for other people to get their butts to the raid or something. Just like some stupid party trick; serves no purpose other than momentary entertainment in a bored situation.
But yeah people who obnoxiously flaunt it around are retarded and I'll not disagree with you there.
>>335098190
>what is specialization
people still play this game?
>>335106902
No, they don't.
>Blizzard will no longer be reporting subscription numbers.
>>335106902
They don't play the game, the game plays them.
>>335106997
just like barely anyone else reports player numbers
>>335106458
Goddamn you are autistic
>>335105825
People should have expected this. Blizzard did nothing but criticize D2, and claim that everything WoW did was better. It's no surprise that they'd completely change itemization in D3.
>>335099379
TOPKEK
Does that mental patient even play WoW?
I can't see my energy regen anymore, as a monk this pisses me off.
>>335106458
I'm gonna light you up, sweet cheeks!
This shitpile is slowly becoming a f2p Facebook game.
Thank god I stopped playing after WotLK.
>>335105480
They have to re-hash Wrath of the Lich King before they rehash Cataclysm. Unless Legion is the Wrath of the Lich King rehash and Illidan is the Arthas...
>>335108168
>f2p
not quite anon. that part aint happening.
>>335107198
I, Gamon will save us! :^)
>>335108232
>illidan
>demon hunters
>glaives
Nope, Legion is the TBC retread. Look forward to fighting Lich King Bolvar after Legion.
>>335108265
f2p is the most profitable model. And seeing as ActiBlizz only cares about profits, its inevitable. Especially with sub numbers dropping the way they are.
holy shit this stat screen looks like my resume
>>335107708
Weren't stones of Jordan used because they were duped and people just had a bunch of them?
I know that they were just really useful items to have in general.
Man oh man, I can't wait for Legion™! Be sure to upgrade to Windows 10 for the best experience!
I dont get it. Why change the game for the worst instead of just normalizing it? It just keeps getting worse and is so far removed from what TBC brought me.
>>335101297
>Cata healing
>Hard
Holy paladin says hi
>>335108776
Is that how it became a currency? Because I must have finished the game hundreds of times over the years and never seen a single one. Even the last run through I had, got a Sorc to 84, found Occulus and Harelquin Mask legit, still never saw an SoJ.
>>335108776
>>335109063
Yep, during D2 you could also semi-exploit Gheed and only get SOJs as uniques from gambling rings. Mostly the dupes thing though.
The reason it was SOJ used as currency is that every class wanted them and they were very portable.
>>335108567
I meant in concept since I figured some people could consider WoD the Burning Crusade rehash even though it didn't follow the same design path Burning Crusade actually did.
But Illidan = Arthas, Demon Hunters = Death Knights is an understanding comparison as well.
They did the same thing to Diablo 3, what's the problem?
>>335105825
Release D3 was so garbage, current D3 is miles better.
>>335109249
Seems to me then it's only Blizzard's fault as far as the exploit existed in the first place for it becoming 'currency'. I'm sure people would have made some other kind of system if it didn't exist.
>>335107708
How far detached from their usebase are these people? The barter economy was purely usermade and did pretty well if it wasn't for exploits. WoW economy on the other hand is completely fucked in the ass though.
>>335097301
But why? Was it really that hard for the average player to understand?
>>335109551
You just aren't looking at it from the proper perspective.
> Barter economy provides no ability for extracting cash from a player.
>WoW economy is entirely manageable on Blizz's end and enables cash to be extracted with little effort.
>A userbase is a supply of money that is not currently in hand. It is not detached if you are holding it.
>>335102287
You are so retarded it physically hurts me.
Same with everyone bitching about this.
I'll give you some stats that shouldn't have been removed like movement speed, health, and mana - but everything else was useless (on a per class basis - why does a mage need to to see dodge, parry, bonus armor, block?)
>>335097301
You are now aware that all the pane does is remove all the stats that haven't mattered for mages since vanilla (when you actually had to wand and cloth gear could have agi).
I get all the 'muh casualisation' 'le epic remember when wow was hard and good' contrarian shit posting /v/ needs out of ever wow thread.
Yes it didn't need to change and it looks stupid now. Lets get real though no one's ever looked up how much agi they have on their mage for the sick crits, no one cares how much melee dps their balance druid gets off white swings.
>>335109684
Blizzard has no interest in the 'veteran' player that suck arouns since vanilla anymore. Everything in Legion screams "We want new blood!". Starting with free WoW for everyone who watched the movie, to more and more opportunities to completely skip any leveling -they really want you to forget about anything not legion- and the simplification of all specs along with itemization just wants to welcome new players at level 100 who just rolled their DH or had their free boost.
>>335109684
a lot of stats mean nothing to certain classes. There's no reason for a mage to see strength or agility because they can't raise it and don't get bonuses from it
>>335108879
This has to be fake, right?
>>335110189Yeah.
>>335110189
How fucking retarded are you?
Raid gear still has 3 difficulties right? 3 kinds of gear for each level? Is that the only thing to do end game?
>Blizzard shuts down the most active private vanilla private server
>Continues to butcher retail WoW
>>335102287
Irrelevent info is just that: irrelevant. Spirit doesn't matter at all to a Warrior, why bother showing them info they don't need?
>>335109031
Eh, maybe it's because I raided 10 mans, but I never once used Light Of Dawn in the first tier of Cata heroic raids, and Holy Radiance was only ever used for the speed boost proc. They changed Holy Radiance later on in the expansion to be a spammable AoE smartheal, but originally it was on an 8 second cooldown and did virtually no useful healing.
>>335110473
They're changing how challenge mode is set up to where it works like D3's greater rifts, beat it and get a harder stone for it that gives better stuff until you fail to beat it under the timer, supposed to give top end gear at the highest difficulties. So you can do the same dungeons infinitely as well :^)
>>335110473
Four levels, and don't forget they each can be upgraded twice and have separate random chances to have a gem socket, level upgrade or secondary stat. It's just like having different content to run, except not!
>>335098035
>Why do they keep doing this?
WoW design gets run past a "Can my grandmother play this?" to be approved. Seriously, to quote Ghostcrawler.
>Let's just say that after working on Age of Empires and World of Warcraft for a total of 16 years, it's really refreshing to work on a game where I don't have to worry whether someone's grandmother can pick it up or not.
>>335110826
No it's still 3. Raid finder doesn't get tier gear.
I came back for a free week a couple months ago. The vast majority of the changes were fucking appalling. I will admit that I liked how they put all the "toy" items on a special tab though. That freed up like 30 spaces from my banks and bags because I was that autistic guy who would constantly flip his coin, play the flute, roll dice, ect. Also, I kinda liked how they did the heirloom system. Not having to mail shit back and forth is nice, and being able to purchase them with gold is decent.
>>335101584
>>335097301
is spell power not a thing?
>>335110985
Tier gear is the only thing that counts as raid gear?
>>335105296
An attack is an attack, you can't make .10 of it
>>335111068
Useless number that doesn't really tell you anything.
>>335111076
Yes. Since LFR drops literal dungeon quality gear, I wouldn't even call it raid gear.
>>335110985
So once you get everything from whatever raid finder is, how do you get raids going if you're in a casual guild(practically every guild but 2 on a server)?
>>335111090
Swing 10 more times and get 1 free!
>>335111149
>gear dropped from a raid isn't raid gear
No TRUE Scotsman would make an argument this ridiculous.
I can't wait to transmog my Benny/Anna over what ever shitty Priest artifact they had in mind. Given if the expan is worth it with play tokens.
>>335109551
A pure barter economy in a game with currency is not ideal from a design perspective. Why did gold even exist if it wasn't really used for anything? They planned on making the AH the way to make gold relevant, but we all saw how that turned out.
>>335110826
>random sockets on raid gear
I can feel the bile in my throat.
>>335102287
when you have no arguments, just post "WHAT IS /v/ COMING TO?!"
>>335105178
The same reason they removed 90% of enchants and took away guaranteed gem slots.
They want you to loot an item, see it has a bigger ilvl and just equip it. No thought, no preparing it with gems and enchants, etc.
Just loot, equip and go.
>>335105825
>all the variety of unbuttered toast
Isn't there a pic with like 50 different unbuttered toasts
>>335106695
>I think you should go play Warcraft 1 again because that was probably one of the simplest video games ever made
Woah bro a game made in 1994 was simple? Holy fuck stop the presses, get this to the editors desk now.
>>335107708
I sure did love the part of diablo 3 where repairing cost so much fucking money I couldn't push ahead in the game without the game trying to make me buy shit with real fucking money.
I've heard rumors that Path of Exile supply RMT with currency and items, and I suspected for a very long time Blizzard supplies RMT with gold and items as well.
I remember in beta they were like "we want gold to not be important :)" and then gold is so important pay2win faggots are paying millions of real dollars out to Chinese goldfarmer sweatshop RMT businesses for virtual cash. Bobby Kotick would've been retarded to NOT be taking himself a sweet cut of that industry.
>>335111290
You can call it raid gear, but you'd be giving the wrong impression to people because it has a really low ilevel. Generally you'd be talking about flex and up when you say "raid gear". If you tried to show up to even a heroic raid decked out in nothing but LFR garbage then I'd just tell you to fuck off unless I knew you.
>>335097301
you know what i need right now, a timeline that show how stats get more lazy and classes less unique overtime
>>335112579
And if the average player tried to do a Mythic in Normal gear, you'd have problems as well. Gear from raiding is raid gear.
>>335102941
>what are
Humans
Dwarves
Night Elves
Draenei
Blood Elves
Gnomes
Goblin
Troll (female)
Orc (female)
Worgen (female)
Pandaren
Tauren (female)
>>335112769
Exactly. We should call LFR gear Tourism Gear, because that's what it is.
>>335103268
this. they are adding a lot of items with diablo 3 style procs on them, so maybe they're inching in that direction
>>335103356
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yModCU1OVHY
>>335112109
so what do jewelcrafters and enchanters do now? they just get toys like engineers?
not that i'm against simple itemization. seeing as they want to deter people from making gold so they have to pay real money for subscriptions, it makes sense to remove things like that
>>335110312
Don't even blame him, would not be surprised. Blizz is already too jew to save.
>>335113580
Jewel crafters don't do shit since nothing good actually has gem slots.
>mfw made decent income selling leather enchants in MoP
>don't have shit to sell as leather working in WoD
>can't fucking sell the mount that they finally gave to leather workers.
>Non-cosmetic glyphs removed
>You thing you want that glyph that made travel form and ghost world mount speed tier fast outside combat, but you don't
>BUT NOW YOU CAN MAKE YOUR ELEMENTAL SLIGHTLY SMALLER, OR MAKE DASH LEAVE LEAVES.
>Every single hybrid had their self-survivality gutted, while pures stayed the same or got buffed.
>Mages have a FUCKING 2000% SPELLPOWER ICE BARRIER
>FUCKING
>2000%
>SPELLPOWER
>NOT EVEN CURRENT CONTENT MASTERY STACKING DISC GETS NEAR THOSE NUMBERS.
Is this real?
>>335113580
>so what do jewelcrafters and enchanters do now? they just get toys like engineers?
>Professions
>2016
Professions were practically removed from WoW with WoD, they're worthless and their greatest things last maybe a week after expansion launch.
>>335097301
That's fine. It's everything you need to know about your class/spec without the shit you don't.
Also, thank God they removed multi strike. What a silly stat.
>>335111068
Int gives you spellpower now. There is no seperate stat for it.
>>335101192
>i like the new stat screen, in all honesty i have no clue what 1/2 the stuff on the current one is or why its important for me to know it
And here is why WoW is dead.
>rfw Mists of Pandaria was the last greatest xpac
>>335114080
>Also, thank God they removed multi strike. What a silly stat.
>Thank god they removed the only stat other than Crit that has a tangible visual and gameplay feeling. Now my DoTs can tick 1 more time per 28 ticks instead!
>>335105969
>>335106284
>LFM 10 MAN VoA 6k+ GS LINK ACHIEVEMENT
Huh, people weren't kidding that WoW's nothing like it used to be. No wonder they were pissed the fan legacy servers got shut down.
>yfw
>>335102773
this
>>335114509
It's ghetto crit plus a glyph that makes you sparkle more.
>>335105817
>he never played the best blizz game
Good fucking luck if you were just pissing around or fucked up your build
>>335105026
/v/ cannot justify things without spamming MUH CASUAL
>mfw legion is still getting dumbed down
>>335107708
such great arguments if not for the fact that d2 was filled with duping and people buying runes off sketchy websites.
you know why bots were so bad in d2? because the entire economy was built around players spending real money for gains. the shit was awful and brought down the integrity of the game.
>>335099379
>dont talk to me or me son again the item.
>>335114714
>inb4 people starts to spam "le uncorrupted fellord xD!"
It's a quest line in Cataclysm where you have a demon hunter consuming a Nathrezim and making you seal both of them in some dagger.
For refrence: https://youtu.be/642nHECOtvU
>>335105026
>Do you really need to know your strength as a mage?
I would like to know what my fucking attack speed is.
>>335103462
Start streaming. Fucking streamers with like 4 viewers per month on average are getting keys just by asking Blizzard and linking their twitch.
>>335115316
>meleeing as a mage
>thinking strength affects attack speed
so it's for retards that don't know how their class works
>>335114994
>because the entire economy was built around players spending real money for gains. the shit was awful and brought down the integrity of the game
Sounds like vanilla D3
>>335112458
Nah, most of their shit comes from hacked accounts and bots. Blizz can ban them as often as they like, they'll just buy new copies and get right back to it. One odd thing I knew a Chinese to do was they sold you RAF mount, you paid them gold, they signed up via you for RAF, you got the mount. It was very prone to just being taken away, because if anything suspicious is found out then Blizzard can just revoke the mount and you're out the gold, but nothing happened and it's been years later.
>>335114714
>Arator
I hope they do something with him. he has potential to be a cool character
>>335114937
>Dumb down the game
>Subs plummet
>"Maybe it's jsut too hard?"
>Dumb down the game again
>Subs plummet again
>"Wow, this game must ahve been harder than I thought"
>Dumb down the game AGAIN
When will these people realise that they've made the game so easy that people can beat all the available content in 1 month and don't need to sub more than 5% of an expansion.
>>335102287
Back on the day it'd make sense.
>Hoover over agi as DK
Dis giv u dodge and armor senpai.
>Hoover over int as a paladin
dis giv up spell powah
But now?
>Hoover over agi as a DK
Lol useless.
>Hoover over int as a paladin (non-healer)
Lol Useless
>>335107708
>barter = bad
Nope. Fuck that. Part of Path of Exile's charm is the constantly fluctuating worth of items depending on what you have, what you've rolled, what the item you want rolled, and the level of economic savvy you have. For me, part of the game in PoE and D2 was going hunting for cool items even if I didn't want them because I know I could have a human interaction with someone else where we would both haggle for things we wanted.
>>335115641
Nigga, Im saying I'm not seeing attack speed on the character sheet.
I'm not saying strength is tied to attack speed.
>>335115641
>checking speed for soloing visc
i know i personally looked at that stat a few weeks ago
>>335097301
As someone who doesn't play WoW, tell me in good detail what's going on with this pic.
>>335115862
no. look earlier in the thread for when someone asked
>>335115856
>>335115860
I assume if you mouse over haste it'll tell you the adjustment it makes to your attack and cast speed.
>>335115862
the stat sheet now limits what it shows to the stats your class actually uses instead of all of them
>>335109031
>Playing Pally
>Expecting anything other than EZ-Mode
Roll a shaman next time, OP once in vanilla and then blizzard decides that they MUST be constantly nerfed as payback
Once they got tired of nerfing shamans they practically forgot we were a classtroll shaman stronk
>>335115781
>I hope they do something with him
He's nothing, his only involvement is coming up and getting all sad because see a hologram voice mail from Turalyon and Alleria.
>>335097301
so are they hiding the fact that they're copying FFXIV, or they just flaunting it?
>>335112769
If someone went through flex, that means they did actual encounters where maybe they could die, and also it means someone actually organized the raid. I can carry someone in flex gear through most of mythic HFC no problem, if they aren't braindead they'll do alright.
Meanwhile, I can solo WoD LFR, back at launch even in shit gear I could probably have solo'd every boss in the first wing of Highmaul simultaneously. It's not a real raid, it just has a bunch of people in it. Your semantics crumble in the face of reality.
>>335112109
>took away guaranteed gem slots.
>
STIIIILLLLL FUCKING MAD.
>Farm nigger blaster 9000 from hardass boss in tripple heroic cookiemonster, hardest pug boss
>Finally drop
>Oh! Not memeforged double socketed monstrous killer?
>Yeah I don't need it.
>>335115862
Here's how it looked like before
>>335116076
>Farm nigger blaster 9000 from hardass boss in tripple heroic cookiemonster
I have no idea what you just said.
>>335113959
Man, leatherworking was were all the money was in WoD, early in the expansion there was a definite demand, and fucking nobody was actually still a LW, so supply was very low. Then when they put the next steps in it was right back to the good times, lots of money. It was the only profession I would regularly see people ask for in trade chat.
>>335113580
>seeing as they want to deter people from making gold so they have to pay real money for subscriptions
Are you retarded?
Buying subscriptions with gold is BETTER for them. Every 1 month token you buy cost someone else $20, it's a sub that profits $5 more than usual.
>>335116124
>kill hard ass boss
>item you finally needed drops
>its not warforged
>basically meaning its a shit tier version of the item
>>335116061
That's not really a commentary on what the gear is, but what kind of player engages with each difficulty level.
> It's not a real raid, it just has a bunch of people in it.
That's the game's definition of a raid instance. The mode is even called Looking for Raid. Any attempts to add qualifiers like "has to be hard" or "has to drop tier sets" is special pleading.
I know that you know this is a No True Scotsman without even an attempt to disguise it, so why say it?
>>335116124
>try to farm BiS item or upgrade
>finally drops
>doesn't have socket
>useless
>>335097301
fucking shit. its still too hard to understand. why cant they just add fixed stats so i can just focus on my queue timer for LFR. i have a social life and im not a virgin like most people who play this game. i cant be bothered to figure this trash out.
>>335116245
they want wow tokens to go UP in price
>>335116081
>>335097301
>that downgrade from pertinent information of your character overall to tossing a few huge numbers to cater to assfaggots
Jesus christ
Jesus christ.
>>335116347
No they don't.
Low price=Many people buy.
Many people buy=Many people buy them for 20 dollar
Many people buy token with real money=They can kike 5 dollars instead of 15 dollar
Why do items even have stats anymore?
![tumblr_lct2xo75W51qe91wdo1_500[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/lmIjVND.jpg "tumblr lct2xo75W51qe91wdo1 500[1]")
>get bored
>resub
>all this grindfest
It will be even worse in Legion, right?
>>335097301
WoW is being preped and pruned for the day it finally comes to consoles.
>>335116518
Same reason why characters still have a bag slot that can't be replaces or upgraded.
Their afraid it will fuck up the game's coding some how.
Oh no not mah numbers
Don't take mah numbers blizzard
Surely there's ways to complain about how Blizzard's fucking WoW for 200 posts that actually regard gameplay
>>335116564
Each artifact weapon will have to be leveled up individually. So most likely.
>>335116046
Remember when frost shock was the only spell in the game to have dr with itself? Fuck Blizzard.
>>335098035
Blizz has added unique resource management for every class and most specs. Mana regen is just not interesting.
>>335116518
They actually shouldn't. Stats are somewhat dated in concept. I understand why people like the classic RPG feel of them but lets be serious here.
There's no need to have stats, if I have 500 crit, I know the item with 600 is an upgrade, bigger is better, that's just math. Having a ton of numbers on things does nothing but add to confusion players feel when trying to compare gear.
They could do an ilvl based system. Right now you have abilities that say "Does 211% weapon damage". So why not remove stats like weapon damage and just have abilities scale off ilvl?
Mortal Strike
20 Rage 6 second cooldown
A vicious strike that deals 211% Item Level damage and reduces the effectiveness of healing on the target for 10 sec
It's the same result as before, but you can cut out the needlessly complicated "Haste improves this while the crit rate returns this much onto the weapon damage blah blah" crap and just make it easier on the player base.
>>335116694
It is gameplay you fuckwit. What do you think gameplay is?
>>335101192
In vanilla you could not see your % stats
>>335112240
Simplest? How?
True, you just had to build peons, tell enough of them to gather wood and gold, make sure your gold mine doesn't run out, 'tech up' so you won't fall behind your mates, make a diverse unit roster so you couldn't be beaten with just a couple of water elementals or deamons... Warcraft:O&H was way better than Warcraft 2, it even had roads and walls goddammit. WALLS.
>>335116816
What?
As a rogue you were actually caring about on how much crit to get before other stats became more valuable and so on. And then if you ended up getting too much of the other stat crit became better again
>>335116816
>Having a ton of numbers on things does nothing but add to confusion players feel when trying to compare gear.
Good, they SHOULD be confused. They should have to work things out. The system should be complex.
>>335116828
Flinging spells at monsters, healing group members, using abilities and cooldowns, moving and dodging bullshit, travelling around the world
> ~2007 - guys let's change all the percentage stat modifiers to ratings for more design space with itemization.
> 2016 - just go back to showing percentages anyway because who wants to look at all those numbers
>>335116964
gameplay refers to every system that occurs within the game. Even music is part of gameplay.
>>335117070
So is story gameplay
Is the start menu gameplay
Is the drop-down to select what level of anisotropic filtering gameplay
>>335116275
I told you your semantics were worthless, shove your fallacy up your ass and just fuck off, you can't "win" this argument by claiming that I'm making a logical mistake when I have practicality to concern myself with. If you want to clear LFR and call yourself a raider, that's really cute and I can't stop you, but don't be surprised if no one ever agrees with the notion.
>>335115791
Underrated post.
Casualization kills WoW.
Just look at LFR - I blame it for most cancelled subs in the history of WoW.
>>335116268
>>335116289
Non-WF non-socketed mythic tier is better than heroic WF socketed tier. Your complaints show that you don't raid, stop crying about content you don't even do.
>>335117173
>So is story gameplay
yes
>Is the start menu gameplay
It can be
>Is the drop-down to select what level of anisotropic filtering gameplay
no
>>335097301
I think they gave up on the loyal "hardcore" audience that were with them from day 1 a long time ago. They are just after the quick bucks they get from the teenagers that want a quick fix, buying the expack and then quits a month later, they will still have made milions on the expack sales alone.
It doesn't really matter to me.
I have all classes and characters at level 100 with an average ilvl of 735.
I will still play this shit and play the new DH class.
And there is nothing you can do to stop me.
>>335097301
The chinamen own blizzard.
You will be playing WoW on ur Iphone 9.
Stop giving china money for ruining your games.
>>335117627
Crazy Craig is free to swim in the pig shit if he wants to
Nobody's going to stop him
classic stats remain best.
give us legacy servers retards
>>335117559
why appeal to them? they're gonna sub anyway
>>335117275
> If you want to clear LFR and call yourself a raider, that's really cute and I can't stop you
I don't think I said that. What I said was "there are four levels of raid items", which there are, and you saying that something called a raid isn't one because you have your own definition for what a raid is does not change that.
>>335117627
How do you do it? Just getting one character through the WoD content was fucking mind numbingly boring. I couldn't imagine doing it with another, let alone all the others.
>>335117705
>YOURE PLAYING A VIDEO GAME I DONT LIKE SO YOURE BASICALLY SWIMMING IN SHIT
Fuck off
>>335117782
Doing something boring and repetetive is PERFECT if you have a second screen and you're watching a movie / TV show.
>>335117708
This and this
>>335117769
You know LFR straight up does mechanics for people, correct? Or straight up removes them?
It's completely justifiable why that anon, and many other people do not consider LFR a raid tier in any sense.
>>335117782
Well of course i did the quests just one goddamn time, with my main character, i'm not a masochist, i couldn't stand the fucking new quest zones more than once.
They look cool, but that's all.
I just exploited timewalking\bonus weeks\dungeon facerolling with the 300% xp elixir with my guild mates.
It's not rocket science, the game becomes 100 times better when you're playing with friends, something extremely obscure and unknown to the majority of /v/.
The coregame stopped being fun 2-3 xpacs ago.
I have fun with my guild mates.
WAKE ME UP
>>335117897
I don't see what that has to do with whether something called a raid by the game is or isn't a raid. If the next tier were released massively undertuned, would it not be a raid instance until it was fixed? If we had modern raiding addons back in MC, would it not have been a raid?
>>335117787
>playing wow post wotlk
>"i-its not shit"
kek
>>335118035
>If the next tier were released massively undertuned, would it not be a raid instance until it was fixed? If we had modern raiding addons back in MC, would it not have been a raid?
there are some fights in LFR that straight up remove major mechanics, like Kormrok. If a raid was so undertuned that Blizzard had to go back and add new abilities to the bosses, then I think we can say that it's not a raid, it's half of one
>>335117428
i'm not the one complaining, i was just explaining the other guy's
>>335117787
>"Fuck off lemme swim in shit and suck blizzard's hairy herpes ridden cock as they continue to give less and less content with every expansion."which are now yearly ;) xD
>>335118187
>there are some fights in LFR that straight up remove major mechanics, like Kormrok
Again, this has nothing to do with whether something is a raid or not.
do you want banana trinket /v/?
>all these fucking idiots taking the bait
They haven't removed the old stats, you fucking idiots.
They just make 'em hidden, you can still use an addon to see them since they're hardcoded in the API.
It does look pretty tacky, but
>Implying I need to see STR, AGI, and INT all at once
>or Spirit on a non-healer
>or Bonus Armor on a non-tank
>or Tertiary stats ever
I appreciate the clean-up, although they could've made it not look like some fisher price shit.
This doesn't change anything about stats or your interaction with what is important for your specialization. Not that it was particularly bothersome, but there's no point in having a bunch of shit that I can mouse over and have it literally say "You gain no benefit from this stat."
>>335117769
It's primarily because there AREN'T four levels of raid items. LFR has its own completely unique loot list. Maybe you haven't played since MoP, but in WoD, that's how it is.
>>335118289
LFR is both ridiculously undertuned, and doesn't drop an actual tier, so yes, it goes along with what you're saying
>>335097301
>versality
>>335116816
you might want to look at this picture again
>>335105825
The problem with your idea and what blizzard is doing is making everything tied to a single thing.
You should be making choices based on play style instead of a pure number game.
just to name a few:
Diablo2 has plenty of low-lvl items that are better for some builds then high-end gear. Wow had mace rogues back in vanilla using lvl40 and 50 maces for pvp for maximum stunlocking, same goes for tanks that needed +def gear and had to think what to wear instead of just stacking stamina and calling it a day.
>>335118386
>j-just download an addon senpai it will fix everything xD
blizzdrones are the worst
>>335116795
>unique resource management for every class
Aren't most resources in legion simply a rebranded energy or rage?
>>335118561
>>j-just download an addon senpai it will fix everything xD
it doesn't need to be fixed because the hidden stats do nothing. It's "j-just download an addon if you're a total autist that needs maximum numbers on the screen"
>>335102773
>Does it really matter?
not anymore
it did matter back then where you needed to hit caps and could have your own playstyle
with the current system where you have only 5 stats yes, it's the most efficient
>>335118479
And yet it's still all raid gear, because it's gear dropped by something that is officially a raid, and it says "Raid Finder" as its source quality just where Heroic and Mythic items have theirs.
>>335118539
None of those have anything to do with whether something is a raid or not - especially not the tier gear one, given that Halion was definitely a raid instance.
>>335104070
>most old players who still actively play the game actually understand what the fuck is going on.
yet you want an invite
>>335116950
>they should have to work things out
Math nerds will work things out, figure out the objective best build, put that online, and everyone will use that.
>>335097301
>Jay Wilson joins Diablo 3 team
>Stat system dumbed down a year before launch
>Jay Wilson joins WoW team
>mfw
>>335106458
>not having a constant supply of nogginflogger for slow fall, resulting in almost always being a skellyton
>not always eating a deviate delight before a BG because your fat Tauren ass is too easy to target
>>335106458
>>335099379
the toybox/mounts/pets collection is the 1 good thing i liked about new wow
too bad there's literally nothing underneath that. just fucking hollow.
>>335118921
>vanilla d3 was harder and more hardcore than reaper d3
>/v/ likes reaper more than vanilla
>mfw /v/ is the dirty, filthy casuals they hate the most
>>335104070
>some casual fuck head only does LFR and unsubbs
>this stops you from finding a guild, raiding and enjoying the small community you can build around your guild and PUGs
I fully agree that they are casual scum and all that but they dont stop me from enjoying myself
>>335105026
>Give a reason why this is bad besides "casual."
>Do you really need to know your strength as a mage?
because everything is generic as fuck, everyone will have the same stuff, with thesame talents, clones of everyone everywhere
>"but even in vanilla, the optimization was about the same items, so everyone wanted the same trinket"
yes it's true, but it's actual content, just like weapon skills, in the end they're useless, but you still have to level them up, it's a feeling of progression, a feeling you can't have anymore with the loss of caps and other buttons, you were the first to notice how you were able to take hits as a tank and not crushing blows anymore, that sort of thing.
you could have fun trying out new builds for fun in dungeons, maxing a stat just to try something, like use the slowest possible weapon with the biggest possible critical chance possible, impossible to do it nowadayw because all weapons have the same speed
I was able to make a critical warrior, full of agility only, it was good enough to clean efficiently trash mobs and surprise people in pvp.
the stat removal is the result of simplification of the game, and it's bad
>>335116816
>I'm one of the faggots who ruined World of Warcraft
>Why even have stats or gear upgrades? Let's just all do the same damage with everything like we do in CoD and CS:GO!
>>335119123
>vanilla d3 was harder and more hardcore
>the purest form of pay 2 win to ever exist, is harder and hardcore.
>/v/ likes buying the same game twice
Both versions were fucking trainwrecks and you should feel bad for liking such a bad game, no matter the state it was in.
>>335119257
>Why even have stats or gear upgrades? Let's just all do the same damage with everything like we do in CoD and CS:GO!
at this point they might as well
turn it into the first open world MOBA
They can take away all the stats, I don't care about them, I just hope this means that we will get more active procs and more unique effects on weapons/trinkets
>>335119123
D3 isn't supposed to be like D2 it was made into a different game. it's not deep it's just an arcadey eagle eye brawler.
WoW is just Diablo 3 without all the good shit at this point
>only your main stats matter
>low level content is braindead easy
>four buttons to push
>gems are useless
Diablo 3 has more customization and more interesting.
I want the freedom to make shitty choices. The only choice left in WoW is to be a min-maxing piece of shit instead of trying stuff that's fun and interesting.
>>335119369
>I want the freedom to make shitty choices.
I remember having actual Fun trying to underpower myself and still beating shit
self imposed challenges are dead
>>335119369
Gems were never interesting, you looked online and gemmed with the best stat.
>>335119303
I could say the same about games that have cheat codes, or allow cheat engine.
for the players that played vanilla d3 without RMAH, they struggled to clear through and defeat inferno diablo. in fact, I dare say less than 10% of the community defeated it, solo.
>>335119123
who cares, vanilla d3 and reaper are both dumbed down versions of d2
>11 year old game
Is mana management a thing for caster dps again yet?
>>335119459
>Gems were never interesting
Your posts are never interesting. You should stop contributing to the death of Blizzard and RPGs as a whole with your millennial ADHD.
>>335119459
YOU looked online and gemmed the best stat
Minmaxing faggot kys
>>335119523
lol no
that would be hard
>>335119471
>Cheat codes are the same as a real money auction house
nigger what the fuck are you talking about
>>335119523
>we discovered that people running out of mana just wasn't... fun? y'know? so all classes now have infinitely regenerating mana
>>335119509
>the old iterations were better
>they make wrong decisions on purpose to try to kill their game
>even open up cash shop to piss off as many people as possible
>cashcows won't give up on it and now start giving blizz the money of 5 people per cow
>>335097667
Holy shit, WoW has become 1984
>>335119459
>Gems were never interesting
>all these faggots whining they can't see how much int their warrior has
jesus christ i know blizzard's pretty fucking shitty but this is just grasping at straws
>>335119598
how are they not?
>let me activate endless cash and health and walk all over the game
>let me pull out my credit card and buy all the best gear so I can walk all over the game
>>335119631
Legitimately unsure if this is a real quote
Why did they fucking do it, it was even worse than the talent trees for me
>>335116605
>GC avidly says fuck consoles they cant have wow
>everyone hates him because "le GC plays mage" maymay and balance issues
>leaves
>insert metzen
>now we get this shit
its really true what they say you know. Better the devil you know.
Cant we just say sorry and take him back and pretend all this never happened
>>335119762
>get banned for cheating in an online game
>get bonuses for buying shit in an online game
that's the difference, it's cheating with developer's approval
>>335119763
this is the same company that had someone quoted saying 'you think you want that but you don't"
>useless stats are no longer displayed
FUCK YOU BLIZZARD
>>335119736
I'm mostly mad that those stats don't do anything at all now.
Int giving more weapon skills and spirit giving more health regen on a warrior was interesting and immersive.
>>335119736
>>335119904
I think it's more of a complaint that useless stats are useless these days. Used to be even intelligence had a minor effect for warriors. The anger is at the uselessness of it all, not that it isn't being displayed.
>>335119904
making non-primary states completely useless for classes is like they shot your parents in front of you and left their bodies to rot and this new character page is them finally dragging their almost skeletal corpses out of your living room
>>335119736
>all these faggots whining they can't see how much int their warrior has
>he wasn't here when life regen was an absolute bitch
>he didn't have his spirit stuff just to save some expensive bread
yup, spirit was a thing back then, not that you'd know about that
>all stats are useless except one for each class
Where were you when WoW toons became less varied and customizable than Warcraft 3 heroes?
>>335119904
>stats were made useless and then no longer displayed
ftfy
it's funny though, no matter what kind of casual horseshit blizzard does to their game, there's always some teenager who started playing in MoP there to defend them
>>335120009
what the fuck
>>335120069
I agree with you, but
>TOONS
>>335120139
>he calls them guys instead of toons
>>335120139
just because his first MMO was Toontown Online no need to get angry
I wonder who it was in Blizzard's organization that decided they needed to simplify so many things in order to right the ship.
They're going through the trouble of making each class 'look' distinct but each one feels the same now. Look at the PVP complaints specifically on the Legion beta forums.
Every ounce of skill and nuance about each spec was removed.
>>335120201
I call them extra mans. Nothing like logging on to WoW and raiding on my extra mans.
>>335120139
>he never played Toontown
>>335119558
Everyborn born between 1980 and 1999 is a millenial.
>>335120579
>tfw millennial and part of the second worst generation to ever exist
>>335120656
First is obviously the baby boomers that caused all this western degeneracy.
>>335120738
Yep. Baby boomers are by far the worst, but millennials are doing their best to catch up.
>>335097301
>mage
>more stamina than int
>any fucking not-tank class
>more stamina than main stat
Just kill this game already.
>>335120738
There is no difference between blaming the boomers, the patriarchy or white people. Stop blaming other people for your failures.
>>335120258
makes you wonder how far they can take the simplification
each time they lose ~3 million subs
eventually it's a blank game with no players?
>>335119687
We've come full circle..
>>335120852
If it comes to that they will simply release smaller expansions and make people pay more for them.
>14k int
>18k stamina
real good that stat squish did
>>335097667
Oh wow, the same joke that has been made in just about every WoW thread for the last 5+ years.
>>335098190
>>335097301
That's basically what it always was.
Stack intellect, stack crit.
That's ALL IT EVER WAS YOU WHINY BITCHES!
>>335120969
The squish would have worked a lot better if they hadn't left the new WoD gear at old Pandaria levels
The massive leap in stats from 90-91 is fucking retarded.
>>335097301
But now that there's legendaries with special effects like in Diablo 3, stats seem really boring, anyway.
>>335121136
As opposed to what? Things like Thunderfury that also had special effects 12 years ago?
>>335121186
Yeah, one item, that's totall comparable to several dozen special legendaries with effects...
Dumb fuck.
>>335121296
And sulfuron. And Valanyr. And, well, pretty much every other legendary?
>>335121136
>lots and lots of legendaries
>a good thing
>>335118852
Math nerd? How much of are simpleton are you, if the optimizing of specs by way of stats are beyond your scope. It's not figuring out quantum mechanics, it's a fucking RPG system. Get more involved, figure shit out, that's what contemporary wow is lacking - everything is on auto pilot
>>335106458
fuck you, i love my orb of deception.
>>335121434
Orb of Deception existed before the toy box
It was also a lot more interesting to see considering it was so rare
Remind me again why reforging shouldn't be brought back considering you no longer have to rebalance your whole set of gear around a hit/expertise cap every time you get a new piece?
Especially now that they're doubling down on the 'random stats = fun' bullshit
>>335121542
That's not cash shop pets.
>Pre transmog
Oh wow that dude looks cool as fuck that new armor looks great
>Post transmog
Oh wow that dude is dressed like a whore I bet he sucks a lot of dick
>>335119459
There was a great variety of gems used in TBC arena pvp.
>>335121542
I guess because everyone would just reforge shit into their best stat. They'd probably actually use this as an excuse to create new items with just a +good stat that makes you just plainly better at everything.
Is this is the last expansion?
>>335121542
because min/maxing is boring and not fun.
>>335121835
>1 stat
>>335097301
No idea why people are bellyaching over this.
Why the fuck would a Priest need to know about their Strength and Stamina or a Warrior to know about their Intellect and Spirit?
You guys will complain about anything.
>>335121806
No, wotlk was the last expansion.
Everything afterwards is basically a completely different game.
>>335119369
>Diablo 3
>good shit
LOL
>>335121542
I never understood reforgefags
It was just a gold sink and an unwanted trip to noxxic
>>335121932
People are angry about those stats being made useless in the first place, not them being removed.
>2005
>firemage
>collect shit loads of +fire spell damage gear greens before it became a common stat
>had about 700 hp, 600 mana
>one shot everyone in duels for fun between mc raids and hillsbrad chaos
because creativity isn't fun
>>335122101
But you don't interact with other players except in dungeons.
>>335122036
that's not what this thread is about though
>>335122165
The OP is just an image without stats and the text LUL.
People aren't mad about the stats being removed, they're mad that they were made useless in the first place.
>>335121181
The funny thing is that all stats in WC3 are useful to the hero.
Now in WoW they essentially replaced mana with some other randumb resource for a lot of classes because they were too dumb to balance around mana. This makes intelligence and spirit automatically useless for most specs. What they don't realise is that using one resource for every class is the easiest way to balance. Unless of course they just remove stats lol.
>>335121542
Because you can't reforge in any meaningful sense. You can't just give yourself all stamina for example. You can't give yourself all intellect. Your build will remain the same.
>remove talents
>add them as bonuses on 'legendary' gear
>>335117981
Tell me your secrets. How do you make friends?
>>335122395
except you get every new "talent" instead of only being able to get certain ones
>>335122248
So class flavor shouldn't matter?
>>335119369
What's with this 4 button meme? I remember WoW having dozens of spells or skills. I watch PvP videos on Youtube and people have hotbars that fit 1/4 of their screen.
>>335097301
>>335098082
It actually annoys me that the game didn't end at level 100. It was the perfect level cap.
>>335122587I'm so sorry
You're lucky if you can fill only your main bar now
>>335119631
So I guess mages making water is out?
>resto shaman
>shitton of high intellect/higher spirit/highest crit
>everyone made fun of me despite rarely running oom and having crit healz on chain healing for the party
>>335122248
>What they don't realise is that using one resource for every class is the easiest way to balance
Most DPS specs are using an identical resource
>Warrior rage
>Use certain abilities to build rage, use others to spend it
>Some abilities will use all the rage you have for a massive damage bonus
>Decays slowly out of combat
>Shaman Maelstrom
>Use certain abilities to build it
>Use other abilities to spend it
>Some abilities will use all the Maelstrom you have for a massive damage bonus
>Boomkins Astral Power
>Some abilities build it
>Others use it
>Some abilities use all you have for a massive damage bonus
>Decays slowly out of Combat
>Shadow Priests Insanity
>Use some abilities to build it
>Other abilities spend it
>Some abilities use all you have for a massive damage bonus based on how much you spend
>Decays slowly out of combat
There's basically 4 resources among classes in Legion. Mana for Healers, Rage for half the DPS, Energy and combo points for the other half of DPS, and Runes for DKs.
>>335122527
lol what? classes are the most homogenized they've ever been. They're just different colors. Every class has a bloodlust now. Every class has a break free spell. Utility isn't a thing you even think about when picking a class anymore you just go "wow holding 2 2handers looks cool" or "wow having a core hound as a pet looks cool"
>>335119631
seeing how Enh shaman and boomkin don't have mana anymore it's possible they do that
that said, Boomkin looks better than before
>>335122743
You act like I haven't played the game in 10 years and don't know you are full of shit.
>>335122527
Class flavour? Why would you go for flavour when you could have a completely different food altogether?
WoW right now:
>chocolate icecream, strawberry icecream and vanilla icecream
What WoW could have been:
>A chocolate bar, an actual strawberry, and vanilla icecream
>>335097301
>people will, yet again, claim that somehow less stats = more complexity and variety
>>335122658
>look up some nigga's stream on Twtich
>this is a level 110 warlock's bar now
Holy fuck. I mean shit some things they did in WoD were okay, like combining DK's Pestilence and Blood Boil into one skill, but this is just fucking stupid.
>>335122743
desu classes are now more different than any other expansion that is not vanilla, check out the class changes
fuck ability prunin tho
>>335122818
you act like you said a counterpoint to anything i've said. you'd have to be a brain-dead idiot to believe that "class flavor" is a thing now.
>>335122860
And I realize that I'm a fucking retard since that's a demon hunter. Well shit, but they still barely have any skills left.
>>335122838
Thats a whole lot of saying nothing.
>>335122818
>implying he's not right
Press 1 for damage, 2 for damage, 3 for DoT, 4 when RNG procs it.
What the fuck is versatility
>>335122860
that's a Demon Hunter bar and they are know for having shit rotation with two buttons
Warlocks have like four buttons dude
>>335122732
That's my point, why complicate things for no reason? Use 1 resource and suddenly balance is a lot easier. Suddenly, all stats are viable for all classes and now you have inherent variety in your game design, rather than variety as an afterthought.
>>335122860
>level enhance sham on WoD
>remember needing entire bar for rotation with surrounding bars for uitility
>fit entire rotation and utility and some toys on main bar
>>335122887
Okay buddy, whatever you say. I'll just sit back and look at how each spec is more distinct than ever and remember how they are more the same than they have ever been because you said so without citing any actual examples.
Whats a good class for generic fuck around in WoD Battlegrounds?
>>335122964
increases your damage/healing in %
>>335122919
You're eating artificial flavour. Not the real thing.
>>335122972
>make everything the same
>there's somehow more variety
I guess you're right, all stats are viable when there's only one.
This is WoW's target audience, everyone.
>>335122687
They make food like they always do.
>>335097301
>people still play this garbage
lol
>>335123014
>I'll just sit back and look at how each spec is more distinct than ever
Oh yeah? Go on then. Tell us more
>>335122907
>thought a demon hunter was a warlock
Nobody blames you. They've been demon hunters for a while now
>>335123014
>specs are so distinct demon hunters only got two!
>>335121835
To you. It apparently was fun to the 11 million people who used to play WoW and no longer do.
>>335123035
Still not saying anything.
>>335123065
>>make everything the same
Who are you quoting?
>>335123123
The classes have different aesthetics, but they're inherently just the same.
They used to be different entirely.
>>335123123
Neither are you.
better trailer without the dubstep, I want vanilla icecream
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQVo9v_d0h4
>>335123186
Fine I'll give you a hint.
Use specifics instead of gross generalizations.
ITS BACK TO 1 MIL HEALTH AGAIN.
YOU JUST CANT DEFEND THIS EVEN IF YOU WANTED IT TO
>>335123149
>using one resource
>not making everything the same
At least it's all balanced :)
I can't wait until it's just damage ability 1, damage ability 2, DoT ability 1, all costing Resource, damage increased by Stat.
>>335123256
>I can't wait until it's just damage ability 1, damage ability 2, DoT ability 1, all costing Resource, damage increased by Stat.
It is that way now, that's the point retard.
>>335123108
The problem was that there's no real way to make the whole reforging somehow meaningful. You have your autists who'd calculate your stat weights and then you'd just feed them to your addons and let them do the reforging for you every time you get a new item.
I mean I liked the idea but it was ultimately meaningless since you didn't have to put any thought into it.
>>335123229
People are already doing 1m+ DPS in WoD at the top end.
>>335123094
Well, you could spend 5 seconds looking at rogues for example. You know, the class that was basically the same thing no matter what you did, now has 3 specs that are actually pretty distinct from each other.
Or hunters, where they ALSO had that problem but now have 3 very different specs to choose from.
Or any of the other classes. But I wouldn't want overburden you.
>>335116741
so if i play a 3 damage spec class and my current spec gets nerfed in a patch, i can't just switch without grinding up the artifact again?
>>335123298
So you agree it's utter shit
>>335123229
>crunch numbers because they're getting too big
>already big within 1 expansion
>>335123301
if it's something that a player has to manually allocate stats into there's gonna be a meta into it. hell even the arena in hearthstone has a calculator for it now that you just pick each card and it tells you the best value for each card you've picked so far and what your next choice should be.
So what's the deal with Legion, how's it looking? I still don't quite get what happened during WoD, I played it for the first few months and unsubscribed out of boredom. Didn't keep up with what the developers thought of it.
Did Blizzard fold and admit to dropping the ball? What was their excuse for it being an awful expansion and how are they supposed to be fixing it this time around? I always have fun with a few friends in the beginning of an expansion, but can't see myself shelling out more money to these guys. If you genuinely believe they're making improvements, give me the details.
>>335122646
They should have stopped there and simply released new content in a horizontal fashion. Keep ilvl the same, just add more dungeons and raids.
>>335123094
they have changed every spec to be more unique dude, just look at some youtube videos about them
sub rogue and pirate rogue are entirely different
>>335122416
Not him, but if you can enjoy it, RP servers have some of the biggest bros out there. Of course, RP has drama, but it's fucking fun.
>>335123354
Supposedly, but its supposedly really quick to level up additional artifacts.
>>335123354
Nope have fun grinding your welfare leg-I mean artifact up :^)
>>335113995
>>Every single hybrid had their self-survivality gutted, while pures stayed the same or got buffed.
Hunters here, I'm so glad we need to grind a niche Legendary to make our singular defensive cooldown (Aspect of the it's literally just deterrence again fuck you) remotely viable.
Almost as glad as I am that they finally tailored a Hunter spec towards melee combat and intensive mobility (AKA, having Warrior Charge)... During the same exact time they release a brand spanking new HERO CLASSU that is also agility-based (twice in a row awriiiiight) and is specced towards melee combat and BRAND NEW NEVER-BEFORE-SEEN SUPER AWESOME MOBILITY MECHANICS, oh and also survivability.
Also it was the wrong fucking spec they made melee. There was literally nothing wrong with old Survival and Beast Mastery is a huge fucking bore that no random-ass menagerie of scrapped Demonology ideas will give a proper identity to.
>>335123354
that's it, you have to grind again if you want to change spec
>>335123314
No one is doing that much damage, even on gimmick fights like Killrog.
>>335123387
Since you unsubcribed there has been literally 1 content patch and nothing else. You could resubscribe right now and only be one tier behind the current raid. That's what happened.
>>335123387
They kidnapped some of the Diablo 3 staff and had them make things better with new Challenge dungeons and Adventure Map stuff
>>335123387
>blizzard a AAA company owned by another AAA company said they didn't have enough money to finish WoD properly
>they release 3 expansions in the time WoD is out for Hearthstone
>Still make Overwatch
>Heroes of the Storm update
>"wah we're too broke sorry guys only 7 dungeons and 2 raids this expansion hope you understand. Here's timewalking events literally go play our old stuff while you wait for 5 more dungeons and maybe a raid if we feel like it."
>>335123479
>He doesn't know
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/8#boss=1785
>>335123387
alpha has more content than the entirety of warlords of draenor, it's looking better, but don't get your hopes up
some classes seem more fun but there is ability pruning
>>335123387
If you are honestly interested I would do your own research. 4chan is not the place to get unbiased information about WoW. 90% of the statements in this thread already are either misleading or outright false. Its a waste of time.
>>335123409
>keep ilvl the same
no reason to keep progressing apart from achievements and neat looking items sounds shit
>>335123315
>Or hunters, where they ALSO had that problem but now have 3 very different specs to choose from.
They're not actually distinct because they all have a resource builder, resource dump, filler ability, damage ability, cc ability, and 1 or 2 utility abilities. That's the same for all DPS specs, not just rogues and hunters.
Let's look at hunters. What separates the playstyle of a BM hunter and a MM hunter? The pet? Not really, the BM hunter still has the same types of abilities the MM hunter has just at lower DPS that the pet on auto fills in for. Let's look at the BM hunter in Vanilla and BC. There the pet makes up a significant chunk of DPS and a huge factor in pvp. There you had to watch out for either the hunter or the pet. Now you only have to focus on the hunter. Pets do shit all.
>>335103462
If you had done Mythic Archimonde sooner, you would've gotten an invite. That was one of the invite criteria.
>>335123360
Of course it's utter shit, I've been attacking Blizzard the whole time you mongoloid.
>>335123301
reforging was always good on paper and a failure in practice, just like older tree talents, nobody is going to reforge to other stats when you can pump it into your main stat/secondary stat
>>335123354
I don't think you understand. Blizzard balances specs around single / multiple target dps
You're going to have to level 2 from the get go if you want to be competitive! combat for aoe / sub for single target, fire / arcane, etc.
AND IT'S FUCKING STUPID
>>335123541
>stack your entire raid with the most burst heavy class in the game decked out in BiS slot gear from head to toe
>burn a boss down in 30 seconds
>these numbers are supposed to matter
>>335123648
Sorry, it's hard to tell.
Blizzdrones say the exact same shit but in support of it. Fucking faggot.
>>335123698
People are doing over 1m DPS at the top end, that's what i said. Try to rationalize it away all you like, it doesn't change anything.
>>335123387
>So what's the deal with Legion, how's it looking?
Was Cata disappointing? Was MoP disappointing? Was WoD disappointing?
Yes. Will this also be crap? Yes. Learn from history m8
Where the fuck is hit? You can never miss now?
>>335105825
This image is severely outdated
>>335123754
It's not fun to miss :(
>>335123587
You just described every dps in every MMO ever. The strategy of playing each spec is different. Your focus is different. What you need to do is different. You generalize hard enough and everything is the same, of course. But that logic every class in every MMO is the same.
>>335123754
Yup. They removed hit and expertise. And Defense rating, because having stats is hard :((((
>>335123683
is this pasta? I swear I have read this before
>>335123754
Nope, hit/expertise just wasn't... fun. y'know?
Stats, real talent trees, etc. just isn't... fun. Not in an RPG. y'know?
>>335123740
Its misleading. You make it sound like that is a sustainable amount of dps, when the sustainable numbers are a quarter of that, and barely that.
>>335123832
>The strategy of playing each spec is different.
No it isn't. You put the relevant abilities on a designated keybind and every one of those specs plays effectively the same on alpha.
The energy/Combo specs are a bit more distinct, but not much.
>>335123745
MoP was one of the best expansion, it's only problem was the god awful daily grind and years of SoO
>>335123870
nope. I'm just a salty rogue.
>>335123786
Its a picture made purely for shitposting on /v/. Its not supposed to mean anything, just rile up responses and let people circle jerk.
>>335123832
>You just described every dps in every MMO ever.
Except for Vanilla :^)
>>335099379
>narcissa
Real top effort there, at least 3 minutes spent shitballing ideas
>>335123932
>MoP was one of the best expansion
>Catababbies unironically believe this
>>335123941
then, answering to your previous post, many spec have different talents that makes them AOE viable, like arcane mage
>bewarlock
>everyone sucking my dick in vanilla
>slay bitches and do damage
>everyone loves my exclusive curses
>tbc hits
>forced to get tanking gear for whatever reason
>bitches still be sucking on that lock cock
>wotlk begins
>other classes start getting my shit that i've had my dick sucked for
>cata
>0 difference between the words mages and warlock except mages could bloodlust and nobody needs a lock
>mop/wod
>warlock is just a word for ranged dps
>legion
>???
I'm scared but I can't look away
>>335122732
>Boomkins Astral Power
Did they change boomkins in a recent patch? Because those fuckers have the most unique resource in the whole game. It's stat slider DDR.
>>335124143
They've removed the Solar/Lunar thing and given them Rage.
>>335124115
You think you had fun in Vanilla, but you didn't. Nobody enjoyed being unique and farming soul shards. NOBODY.
>>335123894
Well, first off, a BM hunter NEEDS their pet to do much of anything. MM doesn't, for obvious reasons. BM gets the BENEFIT of a pet, and MM obviously doesn't. If you don't see how that would create different play styles I don't know what to tell you.
>>335123956
DPS in vanilla didn't use [resource] to use do [damage ability] until things died? Wow.
>>335124179
they gave everyone rage pretty muchi know i got some
>>335124115
I don't understand. You thought it was great being a dps in vanilla and TBC, but then you hated it later on? Or are you talking about healthstones? I don't get what you are upset about.
You think that you want more stats, but you don't
>>335124189
This. It's like trying to compare Arcane Mage to Frost Mage.
Frost Mage is fucking technical as shit with tons of CC, and Arcane Mage is a massive glass cannon when played well.
>>335123872
>>335123837
But hit and expertise were pretty shitty the way they were designed. You just got them to your cap and kept them there for the entire expansion. And if your items changed, well shit, time to hit up that reforging addon to get everything back to cap.
What's the fucking point? The only thing they could have done was somehow designing around it like increasing the caps for every content level (which would kinda take away from other stats resulting in you not getting noticably stronger, and the stat would still be useless in lower tier content) or making superfluous hit/exp do something different, but that's about it.
>>335124064
>talk about MoP
>LOL CATABABBIES :^)
what the fuck are you going on about
>>335097667
I made the same joke years ago back in Cataclysm right before I quit, and extended it to all MMO.
>mfw TORtanic was the first to actually do it a few months ago, sort of
>>335124185
You're right it wasnt but goddamn it felt like you were playing a warlock
>>335124298
Arcane is also about maximizing your burst as much as humanly possible.
>>335124298
>Frost mage
>Technical
The fuck are you smoking? It's one of the easiest specs in the game in WoD and not really changing all that much in Legion.
>>335124179
What? Is it live, or only on legion?
Because that's gay.
>>335108879
so this is what cancer looks like
>>335124354
Mages are absolutely insane, Fire shoot pyros like a kalashnikov and arcane have a talent called quickening which gives them FREE haste
>>335124379
Legion. Also changes starfall to be a massive static AOE instead of just hitting everything in your zip code. At least you can cast while moving inside it I guess.
>>335124379
don't listen to him, watch a video about the new astral power system
>>335124326
Cata is a common starting point for most people who have no idea what they're talking about when it comes to WoW. Someone who says MoP was one of the best expansions has no idea what they're talking about.
>>335124459
He's scaring me. I don't want to watch.
>>335124496
is actually better than you think
>>335124321
>You just got them to your cap and kept them there for the entire expansion
They gave context to gear choices
>This Item I got from Boss A is an upgrade, but drops me below the hit cap
>If I get this other item from Boss B, I can equip the first item and maintain hit cap
Now it's just
>This item is a higher item level than what I have
>Therefore it's an upgrade
>>335124396
Quickening is fucking cancer, you spend the majority of your time just building the stack while keeping you mana as high as possible (ie NOT DOING ANYTHING) so you can dump 100% of your mana during Arcane Power.
Fire is braindead shit and they've removed everything that made it remotely unique. They've turned Combustion into a generic as fuck 3 minute DPS cooldown rather than what it is now which is perfect. The only change to Mages in Legion that isn't garbage is Frost being able to spec out of water elemental.
>>335108914
Because money
Blizzard can make easier money. Every game dev is realizing it. You can make easy money by putting bells and whistles on games in the form of additional cosmetics and what not for an additional nominal fee.
Games don't need substance anymore because substance hasn't been definitively proven to correlate to revenue. And the worst part is is that generations are now being born into this atmosphere where everything is shitty and you buy little trinkets that don't matter and they are ok with it because it's all they know.
>>335124467
Cata was a shit show and Pandaria was good, it was flawed but it was playable, you could tell me why you don't think so if you want to make your point
>>335124551
They gave a mandatory requirement to gear choices. Hit and expertise were such massive parts of your dps statistically that you were stuck with staying at cap no matter how much you wanted to change gear.
And with reforging, any requirements like that were lost, but were replaced with braindead addons doing your reforging for you.
I can't believe someone thinks old school hit and expertise without reforging is good in some way.
>>335124551
>They gave context to gear choices
>>This Item I got from Boss A is an upgrade, but drops me below the hit cap
>>If I get this other item from Boss B, I can equip the first item and maintain hit cap
The only situation where this was still the case was classic. In TBC and WotLK, you just regemmed. For Cata and MoP, you just automatically reforged your shit. You still chose the item with the highest item level most of the time (there were some outliers, of course). You never really had too much of a choice.
>>335123030
So it's literally a +good stat? Isn't that what the main stat already does?
>>335124619
>Pandaria was good
Pruning, new talent trees, terrible theme/setting that has nothing to do with Warcraft, faggot furshit casual cancer playing pandas, the completely broken mess that was PvP at the beginning of the expac, flying mounts, dailies, 12 months of SoO.
The ONLY redeeming quality for Mists was Timeless Isle, and they ruined that when they slapped a 1h cd on the Censer.
>>335124551
Not exactly true. If the item has garbage stats, the ilevel isn't necessarily enough to warrant replacement, and ilevel is actually pointless when it comes to trinkets. You are looking purely at effects.
>>335124776
It also reduces damage that you take. It's almost totally useless outside of a PvP setting.
Do you still have to buy abilities from trainers? Because that would be the last nail in the coffin for me if they removed that and all abilities were free.
>>335120832
>>335120579
>>335120656
stop /pol/, I want to hear wow players cry.
>>335124776
Its a shitty stat for most classes. No idea why its in the game. Multistrike was actually interesting.
>>335123229
>ITS BACK TO 1 MIL HEALTH AGAIN.
At like level 106 maybe.
By the time you're 110 and in full blues you have 2m as a DPS.
Saw a Fury Warrior with all blues and one purple at 2.1m on a stream.
>>335124857
I'm sorry dude.
>>335124547
I watched it. It's trash.
Blizzard is dead to me.
>>335124857
This isn't even in the top 50 bait posts in this thread. Try again.
>>335124857
You get abilities for free automatically when you level up. You no longer have spell ranks either.
>>335124770
>In TBC and WotLK, you just regemmed
So you bought gems from a JC, who either bought Ore to prospect from another player, or went out into the world and mined ore themselves.
How is this a bad thing? How is this worse than sitting in your garrison now?
>>335124797
This is only true in very rare cases outside of trinkets. If the item is 10 or more ilvl higher, most of the time it's an upgrade because your primary stat is so much more valuable than secondaries. The only exceptions to this are a few spec like Fire Mages or Arms Warriors where Crit is actually more valuable than Int/Str, or specs that need to maintain a certain level of Crit/haste/mastery to be functional.
>>335120962
Kek they are doing that right now with WoD and I would be very suprised if Legion wasn't the same. (It will be.)
>>335101192
Of course WoW is dead for two reasons.
They moved to FFXIV.
And there's not enough Gallywix!
>>335123013
>Quit since wotlk
>WoD announced
>Friends egg me on to play it
>Roll shaman
>Expect to have totems with sick ass buffs instead get situational shit that have long ass cooldowns
>>335124921
>>335124938
Well that fucking sucks. Definitely not bothering now.
>>335124937
Not bait, I googled it and didn't come up with any results that answered my question.
>>335124990
>So you bought gems from a JC, who either bought Ore to prospect from another player, or went out into the world and mined ore themselves.
>How is this a bad thing? How is this worse than sitting in your garrison now?
Because now i have to go out and interact with a player. What the fuck do they think I am? Some fucking Gem Butler for my gear? Fucking disgusting. I can't believe I stopped playing farmville for this shit just because my husband finally complained enough.I can't wait to fuck our Guildmaster at the next meet and greet and leave this fucking shitbag of a cuck.
>>335097301
Seems confusing, they really need to streamline this RPG nerd shit.
>>335125071
Because it happened like 6 years ago. How could you possibly go 6 years with that being the most pressing thing on your mind and only now care enough to find out? Its retarded.
>>335123534
What are budgets?
>>335125160
>WoW
>the most pressing thing on someone's mind, ever
Anon...
>>335124990
>So you bought gems from a JC, who either bought Ore to prospect from another player, or went out into the world and mined ore themselves.
How is this a bad thing? How is this worse than sitting in your garrison now?
No I just used my jeweler alt that used ore that i botted for.
>>335097667
dumbest shit down isn't even what's wrong with WoW. it's the lack of community due to cross-realm everything, lack of accomplishment rewards because every retard and their grandmother get welfare epicz, legendaries and cool mounts, and because blizzard has somehow managed to fuck pvp balanced up to the point where it's worse than ever.
i don't blame blizzard for wanting to kill off WoW, but at least do it with some fucking grace and dignity. the game and its players deserve better
>>335125181
What are subscription fees?
>>335123534
Hearthstone makes way more money for the dev cost
they are just going to bleed wow out before it dies in like 3 years
>>335125160
Because I stopped caring that long ago and haven't kept up with things? I barely know anything about Cataclysm or past that.
>>335125213
that moth is cute as fuck
>>335125213
Obviously important enough to come into a thread and act like its the single most important thing that could possibly happen. That specific thing is "the last nail in the coffin". Nothing unimportant to a person ever meets that qualifier. Some guy, 6 years late, just HAS to know if it happened.
Yeah, not important at all. I'm sure you call up people you havent seen in 6 years and ask them what happened to their cat all the time. Because thats about the same level.
>>335125181
>defending neo-WoW
wew
>>335125323
>call it bait
>still respond to it
Nigga you dumb.
>>335125240
Yeah, I'm sure everyone on your server are running around in a fel iron reaver using the Mythic only tier sets.
>>335125025
>roll shaman
>people still fucking say roll, even though none of them played DnD in their lives and your characters start with the same stats every fucking time
>also "toon"s
Ugh.
>>335125383
>stressing out over trivial meaningless shit
hopefully you'll pass away due to cardiac arrest very soon
>>335124786
>pruning
pruning was retarded yes, but it wasn't as extreme as WoD
>talent trees
the old talent trees were shit, the new ones are not perfect but at least they give you more choices than cookiecutter builds.
>theme
the theme and setting are totally subjective, I liked the lore even with the fat fucks, and the raids were usually very good, it had nothing to do with warcraft but it was a fresh of new air, you can like or dislike it, but it was well thought
it was supposed to be the reason of "war" between alliance and Horde but they didn't go far with that and left it unresolved until Garrosh goes corrupted fetished with Metzen
>PVP
PvP is always broken at the beginning of the expac, it was better than TBC and Vanilla at least
>dailies
I already said that the daily grind was shit and one of the reasons
>12 months of SoO
that has been a thing since Lich King, WOTLK and Cata had terrible last patches that lasted a fucking ton, same with WoD, but at least the amount of content you could do surpassed cata and WoD
you also left the
>shit legendary that was mandatory like cancer WoD
All in all, it has it's faults like every other expansion, it wasn't perfect but it wasn't the shitshow you want to believe it was, it was playable, it was fun and many people agree it was worth it
ITT: People who haven't played since Vanilla, BC, or Wrath, thinking they're knowledgeable enough to criticize modern WoW
>/v/'s so retarded that they actually want useless shit like Hit Chance back into the game
I sure did love having a bunch of Hit Chance and reforging it back to 8.5% every time I got a new piece of gear, but, oh wait, before Cataclysm, reforging wasn't a thing, so you basically had a bunch of shit you didn't need on your gear.
>>335125382
>mythics!
>the same exact content, but slightly harder!
fucking boring, and dumb, and stupid, and not worth the effort at all. i quit for 6 years, came back to play WoD, and it only took me two weeks to reach lvl100 and down heroic archimonde with group finder.
>>335125443
>assuming I'm stressed
>not just pointing out pet peaves of idiots
okay anon lol
keep raging at your dungeon finder groups for rolling on offset gear.
>>335125471
I have never gotten an actual explanation why the legendary ring and cloak make people so goddamned angry. The only one I've ever heard were from people that waited until the expac was practically over to get it and were mad they had to grind for a couple weeks.
>>335125383
This is probably one of the most autistic posts in this thread.
>item level after progressing through 4 raiding tiers in vanilla: 89
>item level after progressing through 4 raiding tiers in bc: 164
>item level after progressing through 4 raiding tiers in wrath: 284
>item level after progressing through 3 raiding tiers in cata: 416
>item level after progressing through 3 raiding tiers in mists:566
>item level after progressing through 3 raiding tiers in wod: 735
dat bloat
>>335104591
OH MY FUCKING GOD
ITS FORSAKEN
NOT UNDEAD
FORSAKEN
FUCKING KILL YOURSELF
Fuck
>>335125584
>the same fights
>but actually different with different mechanics, in some cases, extremely different mechanics and entirely new phases
>also has gear that drops only from mythic and does the extremely desirable thing of showing off that you actually achieved something most people can't and won't
>>335125471
>the old talent trees were shit
FUCK OFF
I FUCKING HATE THIS "ARGUMENT"
I COULD BE A REGROWTH FOCUSED DRUID OR A HEALING TOUCH FOCUSED DRUID. MAYBE I SHOULD GO A MOONGLOW BUILD FOR MORE SUSTAIN OR A SWIFTMEND BUILD FOR MORE HEALING?
HMM SO MANY CHOICES. FOR ALL CONTENT AND IT WAS -ALL- VIABLE.
AND THEN TBC CAME ALONG AND BROUGHT WITH IT A FUCK TON OF PLAY-STYLES.
NOW Oh fucking NOW I can just be a "resto druid" nothing interesting, nothing good. Fuck you Blizzdrone fuck.
Favorite class, spec, expac?
DK, Unholy, Cata here.
>>335125616
>The only one I've ever heard were from people that waited until the expac was practically over to get it and were mad they had to grind for a couple weeks.
>A couple of weeks
>WEEKS
It takes THREE MONTHS to get your ring, assuming you DON'T get fucked by RNG. Have you ever wanted to gear up an alt? Well have fun grinding for THREE MONTHS to get the ring because you aren't raiding shit without it.
>>335125616
because everyone had it, and it was mandatory for high raiding, thus making the quality of legendary drop to "normal purple"
ring literally had no texture so less work and the cloack was the same one with a different paint color
it also took away the identity of the item, legendaries were supposed to be seen as an ultimate achievement in PVE or months and months of farming, you could look at him with pride or disgust because no life.
now everyone has it, so it's not a legendary anymore
>>335125471
>pruning was retarded yes, but it wasn't as extreme as WoD
That doesn't mean it was okay or the expansion was good.
>the old talent trees were shit, the new ones are not perfect but at least they give you more choices than cookiecutter builds.
Opinions discarded. You either didn't play Vanilla-Wrath or you were a hypercasual PvEer who lacked creativity. The old talent trees were great, the new ones are trash.
>the theme and setting are totally subjective
It was objectively not related to Warcraft. There's no subjectivity about it.
>PvP is always broken at the beginning of the expac
Stampede bug, Frost Bomb/Ice Lance one shots, Chaos Wave one shots. Nothing has ever been that broken before and it took the devs months to fix any of it.
>but at least the amount of content you could do surpassed cata and WoD
This doesn't make MoP a good expansion.
>it was playable, it was fun and many people agree it was worth it
WoD is ""playable"" and I had fun before they added flying mounts back in. It's still a trash expansion, just like MoP was.
>>335125704
why would you play a healing touch focused druid wtf
>>335125697
i understand the appeal. i was in a progression guild back in the day.
my point is there's no grey area with WoW. it's either 'everybody has it' or 'nobody has it'.
>tfw despite being "casual" and worse it still is better and plays better than XIV
makes u think
>>335125704
>Playing your class wrong and being a fucking faggot retard is somehow good
>>335125689
multiple difficulties really doesn't help keeping stat bloat down
>>335125815
You're right, people should only play Blizzard's ™
Pre-Approved™
Builds™
for Raiders™
>>335125815
>I never played Vanilla - The Post
>>335125863
>playing your class wrong
This is why I fucking hate Catababbies.
Playing in a way that isn't maximum damage/healing isn't wrong you fucking faggot. Just because someone doesn't minmax doesn't mean they're 'wrong'. You can try other builds for fun. You can try other builds for a challenge. Not anymore, but you used to be able to.
>>335125704
dude, stop deluding yourself, every druid had the same build because it was the best one, sometimes because patch changes you could spec into another thing because it was the best
you do have the choice to be a healing touch focused druid but it was a shit choice, that is the complain, many of the "choices" were useless both in PVE and PVP
with the new talents you actually change the way you play, you have fewer choices but they are all viable
also
>healing touch focused druid
my fucking keks
>>335125882
that's good, because if you played vanilla you would know that druids were shit, at tanking, DPS, and healing, only innervating the priest was good
>>335125773
So its a problem because of alts? And its 3 months even with all the drop increases alts get?
Eh. I got it on my main and 3 alts just by playing the game so I guess I never noticed. Probably helped your legendary ring didn't matter the first two tiers, only in HFC.
>>335125774
It only matters in HFC. No one required the ring in the earlier tiers.
Legendaries were the ultimate achievement of a guild willing to feed mats to their guild leader's girlfriend. Yeah I'm sure you were super proud of her having the sum total of months of banging your head against the RNG. I mean, if that meant a lot to you, then sure I guess I can understand it, but it seems silly. There are still rare stuff you can feed to other people. Just work on those.
>>335125992
>sometimes because patch changes you could spec into another thing because it was the best
Because tank healing Druids specced the same as raid healing ones in Wrath, right?
>>335125876
>Most viable options as opposed to useless shit
>Doing more damage as opposed to less damage is somehow bad
I swear to God you guys really are the biggest faggots on the internet.
>>335125974
>Catababbies
Started in BC, you fucking crybaby.
>I DON'T CARE IF I WAS PLAYING MY CLASS WRONG AND BEING A LIABILITY TO MY RAID/PARTY, I WAS HAVING FUN BEING A RETARD
>>335125992
Are you fucking retarded?
Healing-touch was fucking amazing in Vanilla, with Regrowth builds took over in BWL for a bit but in AQ Healing-touch only was fucking amazing for mana.
Fuck off you stupid fucking catashit.
>>335126037
Objectivity wrong.
>>335125831
What kind of point is that? And no, by definition mythic shit is "a small percentage has it". Which isn't either of the things you listed.
What do you want?
Exactly 50% have it?
>>335126045
even in wrath you'd go nourish over healing touch wtf
>>335125974
those builds weren't just a little worse than the other ones, they were straight up useless, if you want to do something in pvp or PVE you had to get a good build
>getting stomped in PVP was "fun"
sure bro, your healing touch focused druid is going to get fucked by everyone and everything
>>335125974
Playing in a way that is inefficient has always been wrong for anything that is remotely competitive. Not like you can't play "wrong" now. You can deck your warrior in twill and pick the worst possible talents, even now. Go ahead.
>>335126043
>And its 3 months even with all the drop increases alts get?
Yes. It doesn't seem that way on your first character because you probably already had the Shipyard and Garrison going to begin with.
>Hit 100
>Have to grind Garrison to lv 3
>Have to grind shipyard to lv 3
>Have to grind 125 strones in HM
>900 runes in BRF
>33 tomes in HFC
>>335126086
nobody would take a druid if a priest or pally were available in vanilla bro
>>335126064
>raiding is the only content that matters
Please kill yourself faggot. I'm sad that theorycrafting and interesting talent trees died so that you minmaxing faggots could do two more damage per second every friday night.
>There are people here that didn't do deep prot paladin healing
>>335126210
Again wrong.
I would subscribe to a legacy server with progressive updates. I really would.
>>335126162
>WoW
>>>>>>>COMPETITIVE
>>335126220
>interesting talent trees
+1% damage
+2% damage
yes, paired with vanilla "rotations" it was the most fun ever
>>335126220
I wish games just avoided numbers entirely unless they were necessary. Hell, even in racing games your speed doesn't matter that much.
>>335126097
personally i don't like that i have to use voip to do serious raiding or pvp. i'd rather play solo and and fight hard bosses on my own and be rewarded for it, but that's because i grew up playing ARPGs like Diablo and not MMOs. i'm actually not a fan of MMOs
but on the broader spectrum i think blizzard needs to merge servers to bring back a sense of community, remove LFR, and balance pvp better(stop forcing people to reroll fotm op classes). there's also the massive botting/hacking issue at high mmr RBGs/arenas, and all the carry buying/selling going on.
the game has just degraded to a sorry state and it sucks to see it like this
>>335126284
>I don't know what I'm talking about
Enjoy your +10% shadow damage mastery and talent trees with abilities that should've been part of the base class anyway.
>>335126284
But what about the 2 damaging abilities your class had? That was fun right? Or even better, the "spam shadowbolt the entire fight and maybe cast a dot sometimes" warlock gameplay?
>>335126248
how I am wrong? Vanilla had specs that were utterly useless, Warrior were the best tanks and priest were the best healers.
you could have a druid tanking or healing yes, but it was always worse, shamans also could tank until 50 and sometimes 50+
and we can talk about balance tree, which was shit even when they created boomkin
>>335126365
>i'd rather play solo and and fight hard bosses on my own and be rewarded for it
They why the fuck are you playing an MMO you faggot?
You people are the fucking worst. You come into a multiplayer genre then go WAAH WHY DO I HAVE TO TALK TO OTHER PEEEEOPLEE?
>>335126365
So you admit you don't even like the idea of multiplayer.
And LFR is basically dead. Its literally 1 half step above watching the fights on youtube, and gives gear that is about comparable to that. Its all flex now, which requires making actual groups, not that that is hard to do with group finder.
>>335126380
It sure is better now, with casting your DoTs, then shadowbolt until your RANDOM CHANCE proc happens, so you can cast your a little bit more damage shadowbolt
>>335126460
my biggest gripe is people getting their legendary from LFR
>>335126412
>Vanilla had specs that were utterly useless
The only useless spec in Vanilla was Prot Paladin, and even that had niche applications. The other specs (boomkin, ret, etc) were just PvP specs or utility specs.
>>335126375
like I said, you have three choices per tree that can change the way you play
you have fewer choices that are actually viable to the talent point tree was filled sometimes with the most stupidest shit ever
and what you are talking about is pruning bro, and we are in agreement that it has to stop
>>335126535
>utility
If it doesn't have big heal numbers or big damage numbers, it's useless! USELESS
>>335126375
>Says someone doesn't know what they're talking about
>Has no fucking clue what they're talking about either
The ironing.
>>335126535
oh yes, utility, I forgot about buffing the entire raid again for 5 minutes
what an amazing and fun gameplay, and ret pallys get to use their set of Hands sometimes! in exchange for shit damage
>boomkin
>PvP
you lost me senpai
>>335126569
Are you trying to say a spec that doesn't do anything useful isn't useless?
>>335126549
You think that, but people always choose the ability that gives them the most DPS. Looking over a bunch of different DK PvP streams, all the unholy DKs had the same talents chosen. All the frost DKs had the same talents chosen. All the one blood DKs had the same talents chosen. All of the abilities should've been a part of the base class.
Yeah, fuck everyone but warrior and priest especially when nearly all encounters favored having a wide variety of classes and specs
who the fuck needs kings
>>335126670
yes, in WoD
that is changing in Legion for some classes, they also get unique talents depending on their spec
it's not perfect but far better than WoD and vanilla talents
>>335126667
>only damage and healing is useful
>>335126662
>>boomkin
>>PvP
>you lost me senpai
Balance/Resto was great for PvP retard.
>>335126597
>responds to posts about people not knowing about anything
>for some reason talks about ironing
This is ironic.
>>335126695
oh yes, because buffing the raid over and over again is fun
that's the problem, pallys and druids were not equal to warriors, they bring different abilities but you would always choose a warrior to tank, a pally to buff, and a druid to innervate
>>335126732
Please explain your no damage, no healing, no tanking spec that actually matters.
Plate tanks:
>Warrior, Paladin, Death Knight
Mail tanks:
>none
Leather tanks:
>Druid, Monk, Demon Hunter
Cloth tanks:
>None
>Blizzard makes Demon Hunter a leather class
>because there isn't enough competition for agility leather and tanking leather already
>even though Illidan and other demon hunters were clearly just wearing cloth previously
>pass up a chance for a niche type of armor - agility and tanking cloth
th-thanks blizz
>>335126737
it's a shame that rogues/mages/warriors or hunters would completely destroy you in a matter of seconds
>>335126597
>The ironing.
the last time i ironed was when i needed dress clothes for my high school graduation, does anyone iron outside of special occasions these days?
I can't decide between a TBC and Wrath private server to just have some fun on.
What do you guys think?
>>335126809
>clicking a buff over and over is any different than clicking a healing ability over and over
WoW just isn't fun mechanically, anon.
Nothing about it is fun. It's fucking boring. You're just pressing 1-2-3-4. The gameplay isn't what made WoW what it was.
>>335126912
>Dagger rogue
>Against a balance/resto druid
Maybe if you specifically said Mace rogues, but they obliterated Dagger rogues just because of Thorns with no ICD and being able to tank their damage.
>>335126809
Druids were 100% required most of the time just for tranq, paladins may have been buff machines but not having a couple made your raid significantly worse
ret paladins now are just mashing out your rotation while your hand macros just sits in the corner covered in cobwebs
>>335127082
>Druids were 100% required most of the time just for tranq
No they weren't
Were was only 1-2 druids in the raids for the innervate, and they weren't allowed to do anything else
Catababy
>>335122972
there is still the gcd which is either 1s or 1.5s. classes with 1s gcd will no longer want any haste since its much weaker for them then for 1.5s gcd classes.
>>335126871
Not really any reason to. Its obviously going to be an agility class. They would have to remake all cloth to have agility on it just to do what you would say. And since there were 3 leather classes and 3 cloth classes, the easier option was leather. They MIGHT have gone with cloth if there was 3 cloth and 4 leather, but there weren't.
>>335127210
Except haste scales for things besides GCD.
>>335127215
There is 4 leather with DH.
>>335127082
yes
But I'm not saying you wouldn't bring a pally or druid to the raid, you could, it was usually a 40-man you had slots for them which would increase the effectiveness of your raid
what I'm saying is that the main jobs, this is, tanking, and healing, and dps, were outshined by Warriors, Priest, and pure dps classes
so, in the end, you were relegated to being a buff machine or a walking innervate/tranq
that's my main gripe
>>335101192
There have always been contrarian retards in the wow community, Blizzard's policy is to enable them.
>>335127297
top tier guilds only take classes that aren't the best because they compliment they stronger classes due to buffs and such
It's the same in vanilla as it is in wod. 90% of raid groups couldn't give less of a fuck then or now what class you were other than absolute shit ones like current survival hunters
>>335127297
It's almost like hybrid classes brought things to the raid aside from DPS. Isn't that amazing?
Also Shadow Priests were one of the highest DPS specs in Vanilla, Competing with Warriors and Rogues. However, for them to perform that well required both an extremely good player and a Ping less than 20 or so. Shamans could do roughly as much DPS as Warlocks when Enhancement, but were still benched because Windfury made it impossible to control their aggro.
>>335123387
To be completely honest, Legion is definitely looking better than WoD.
But having blood in your shit looks better than WoD
>>335127409
no matter the game/community there will always be loyalist sycophantic cucks who defend any decision no matter what.
>>335127215
>They would have to remake all cloth to have agility on it just to do what you would say
You don't know how gear works currently. The primary stat on gear changes to be optimal for your class/spec. Making agility cloth would take 2 minutes to implement.
>>335124115Roguehere
warlocks weren't that great in Vanilla
they rocked TBC though
fucking fear never ever broke
>>335127490
wow dynamic and unique classes and specs, and not every class could fulfill every role? sounds horrible! i am a priest and i want to be able to tank, heal and dps and blizzard understands that now.
>>335127634
>blizzard takes away warlock tank
>takes away frost DK tank
>demon hunters have two specs
>giving players more options
LOL
>>335127490
so? what's your point?
in TBC and Lich those "hybrid classes" brought things into the raids with a good DPS
you had tanking/healing druids that could innervate/tranq
you had pallys that could heal/tank with all the utility and buffed for many more minutes
you had shamans that could been stacked to spam bloodlust so you could have permabloodlust
you had all those utility options in TBC with a good healing/tanking ability and decent DPS
you couldn't do that in Vanilla
>>335127556
2 more minutes than just making them leather.
>>335127634
wow, you mean my tanking spec druid can't tank? warrior is a better tank than me so there is no reason for me to spec into tanking?
okay, thank you blizzard, vanilla for the players what a time to be alive
>>335127807
>warrior is a better tank than me so there is no reason for me to spec into tanking
I don't understand this logic
Why hybrid classes should be as good as pure ones?
>>335127807
>waahh why can't I heal on my Warrior? I should be albe to do everything as well as every other class
>>335126984
He never said "dagger"
Shit he said "pvp" and "rogue" so obviously they'd be maces
>>335127882
because WoW is a marxist game now, none should be better than the other, we're all equals. thats why its essential we eliminate any semblance of difference between the classes.
>>335127882
What's the point in playing a fucking hybrid outside of healing? Why should I make a paladin and buff the raid every 2 minutes instead of making something that would actually be fun to play.
>>335127882
because being a hybrid isn't fucking useful in raiding, you do one role and you do it well. if you can't do that, then you suck. it's that simple.
>>335127982
because the game wasnt only about raiding, there were certain specs that were pvp like ret paladin, arms warr, feral druid etc. it is not necessary for every class to be able to fit every role you fucking baby.
>>335127882
that's the main flaw of the druid
you were supposed to be "Jack of all trades, master of none"
so you would be a lot worse than pure dps classes, priest and warriors
so you only served as an innervate machine
it would have been different if you could trade being a tiny little weaker than warriors, heal a tiny less than priest but exchanging it for those "utility skills"
but blizzard sucks at balancing, so you were a lot worse in everything, relegating you to a being a guy that sometimes uses his utility abilities and nothing else
>>335127987
I agree. If something isn't useful in a raid, Blizzard should just get rid of it.
In fact, get rid of leveling. Get rid of professions. Get rid of mounts and pets. Those things aren't useful in raids, and thus shouldn't be allowed.
>>335127882
Hybrid should never be as good as a pure but they should provide the same level of usefulness, you can have utility but if it doesn't match up to how useful pure damage/heals/midigation is then they become useless
like vanilla druids other than resto were useless because they didn't provide enough to keep their spot
>>335127932
>mfw won the argument so this retard resort to say something completely unrelated to my post
wew
>>335128107
those are for flavour and fun, except for professions and pets which change your stats/can add dps if it's a combat pet. why should entire classes just be a fucking joke class?
>>335128156
it didnt hurt to have 1 feral for the crit buff, 40 raid slots could accommodate niche roles.
>>335127964
>marxist game now
>now
It was this way since wotlk
>>335127982
>and buff the raid every 2 minutes
Was fixed in middle of vanilla, why do you even bring it here?
>something that would actually be fun to play.
Support classes existed since vanilla, some people loved to play as them
>>335127987
>because being a hybrid isn't fucking useful in raiding,
This is why guilds stacked druids and shamans and never brought more than 2 priests in the aq40 and naxx, because pure healers like priests are better obviously! There such a thing as utility
>>335128050
Druids stopped being "innervate machine" after their talents were fixed
Fuck we had even balance(or even 2) in the naxx
>>335127982
>What's the point in playing a fucking hybrid
To be able to do everything. Jack of all trades, master of none.
To be honest, you hybridfags constantly crying about muh balance in Vanilla is just the worst.
>>335128262
>because pure healers like priests are better obviously
yes they were you dumb shit, that's why druids were mostly mana batteries and paladins were buff whores, that wasn't them actually doing anything by playing, it was them simply existing and filling up space. how is that fun or fulfilling or good balance in any way?
>>335128262
balance was still shit in vanilla, their other trees were a lot better, but it's still wasn't worth it bring a cat/tank for a rogue/warrior
however, it was a 40-man, so there was enough slots to bring utility classes
>>335128216
Flavor and fun? Not allowed. You shouldn't be able to make your own character the way you want to. Want to use healing touch as a druid? Fuck you, that's not useful in raids! Want to frost tank as a DK? What the fuck, you're autistic for wanting to play the game in a way that isn't minmaxing! The only solution is to take away choice.
>>335128337
Balance is still shit in WoD. Arcane mages do 20% more DPS than the next best spec, Survival Hunters do as much as tanks.
>>335128331
did you even play vanilla? you sound like youre just repeating canned anti vanilla canards desu, there was always plenty of druids, shamans and pallies in post BWL raids. the problems you're describing really only applied when MC and Ony were the only raids.
>>335128331
>yes they were you dumb shi
Sure, and this is why priests were the most undesirable healers in late game raids
Because they were better healers!
Something very wrong with your logic
>>335128391
because Blizzard can't balance for shit
however, people don't care if the DPS is an arcane mage or a boomkin, only the top guilds which do min/max like crazy
>>335128369
>waaaah i have to actually play intelligently in raids and i can't just scratch my ass and press the spells i feeeeel like pressing
>>335128369
you could, but good luck doing anything worth with that
it's like studying a gender studies career and complaining about having no job
>>335128482
>waaah raids are the only content in the game everything should be balanced around them!!!!
>druids were bad healers in vanilla
what are some other ridiculous things kids who have never actually played vanilla say?
>you had to spend HOURS looking for a group
>completing a dungeon quest or two for raid attunement was SO tedious and boring
>old talent trees were shit
>MoP was a good expansion
>flying mounts didn't kill wpvp
>>335128452
Most guilds would never accept a bm/survival hunter in to their raid group unless they severely outgear the content they are doing
>>335128369
>people are autistic for wanting to do well
Amazing.
I guess it's also autistic to want to write a message with a pencil and paper instead of using a chisel and rock?
>>335128560
>pvp was awful, POM pyro mages 1 shot everything! and everyone died instantly!
>>335128560
>LFG is good
>cross-server is good
>PvP stats are good
>flying mounts are good
>wPvP is boring/bad
>raids are the only content that matter
>heirlooms are good
>>335128631
>reading comprehension
People are autistic for wanting to take options away from other people since they're not 'the best'.
You can be a minmaxing autist all you want but don't force your ideology on me.
Chisel and rock is an art form, any faggot can write something on a paper with a pencil.
>>335123786
>>335123952
>blizzcucks
>>335128770
Nobody's saying you can't do it, you autist, much like nobody's saying you can't run around trying to DPS as feral with Boomkin spec and gear. It's just that nobody will fucking pick you and everyone will laugh at you.
>>335128560
I honestly think flying mounts could have been a great addition to the game
it's just that blizz implemented them badly
they should have been limited to certain zones, which would have been designed around it - e.g. a bunch of broken, floating islands with objectives on each one you would have to land to battle - so you wouldn't be able to run away from a pvp fight or something, you'd have to tough it out
but they just opted for "k u can fly errywhere now have fun"
>>335128856
Blizzard is saying I can't do it by taking the options away, faggot. That's what I don't like. I really don't give a fuck if I don't do the top 1% damage in a raid. In vanilla, 40-mans were just a ragtag group of faggots who didn't know what they were doing anyway, and that was fun.
>>335128856
but this wasnt the case in vanilla at all, there were plenty of druids, paladins, shamans etc. in t2 and t3, many ret paladins with hand of rag etc. to claim that hybrids were excluded is a lie.
>>335128560
>old talent trees were shit
They were shit, but instead of fixing them blizzard made everything worse
At least at the start of wotlk late tank talents allowed actually different playstyles
>MoP was a good expansion
It was good
More enjoyable than wotlk at least
>flying mounts didn't kill pvp
Elemental plateau and battles for the buffs for the raid
I agree that wotlk kids have very twisted opinion about vanilla
Well, and things that get me everytime:
>BRD was a good dungeon, I remember how I gathered party on the 50lvl and we spend all day clearing it
>Priests were the only healers,
>5 minutes buffs in the raid
>druids were mana batteries
If I see opinions like this, then it's obvious that person never even touched vanilla wow
>>335128856
Legion is actually adding a talent that will let your cat form scale with boomkin gear lmao.
>>335128631
If you want to do well, don't roll a hybrid
It's a balancing act: pick a class that lets you do any role, or pick a class that lets you do one role well
>>335128959
>asian rice fields zone 1 2 and 4
>more enjoyable than frozen mountains, troll empire, forest
>>335128941
Did you read what I wrote? You'd also not wear the same stuff you do dpsing as Boomkin as you do when you dps as Feral, and I mentioned gear.
>>335128937
While new WoW is absolute dogshit, we can both agree, there's two things wrong with your statement:
1) That's not true now because people know how to deal with vanilla content now, we're not still twelve yucking it up in 2004. Times change and we've become more competent and that's not the game's fault, if it's anyone's, it's ours, and we're never going to get that period of cluelessness back, whether we play fucking Legion or Vanilla.
2) It's still totally possible to be a clueless dumbass with the new system, too, even though there are less options (and yes, I dislike it for that reason), just by not following meta. Hell, even in the old trees it's not too easy to massively fuck up if you use a bit of logic into what you're picking, even if it's not 100% optimal.
>>335129021
shut up retard
>>335129174
wotlk also had ulduar which was better than anything in mop.
>? You'd also not wear the same stuff you do dpsing as Boomkin as you do when you dps as Feral,
and? why is that bad? arms and fury also required totally different itemization, it's what made classes and gear acquisition dynamic and interesting.
