What went wrong?
>>334818404
nothing, IMO.
People would not complain even half as much if it would not be said to be "Early Access" anymore.
>>334818404
a bit slow on the update
otherwise fine
MT gambling, not listening to community feedback, lacking the humor and grunge feel of the previous game, jamming in shitty pvp. Also perk skills suck and there's nearly always a clearly better skill to pick.
>>334818983
How are microstransactions and pvp in a coop game fine?
>>334818404
The diverted most of their development staff to the creation of DLC weapons and cosmetics before the game left early access status. It's easily the biggest red flag that anyone with even a bit of sense should notice: if they start providing extra 'content' that's behind a paywall before the game is finished, fucking bug out and try to get a refund.
double barrel doesn't have that oomph anymore
>>334819164
doesn't affect gameplay
it's fun
people dont complain about versus being in left 4 dead, which is also a "coop game"
it doesn't /have/ to be a coop game.
>>334819164
>microtransanctions
are purely cosmetic skins that bad in your books?
You must hate CS:GO and KF1. I'd understand the flak if it was some PD2-tier gamebreaking p2w / pay-more-to-PLAY-the-game level bullshit, but nope.
>pvp in coop game
you mean like in... L4D ?
>>334819431
Versus in l4d wasn't behind a paywall. Microtransactions is funding and devs being diverted away from making the game better to making the game a better cash cow. Microtransactions don't add anything to the game at best, and at worst they add things to the game that give people an unfair advantage because they were willing to spend even more money on the game after paying the base price to purchase the game.
>>334819469
>are purely cosmetic skins that bad in your books?
When the game isn't even finished and they start pumping out this nonsense DLC, yes, it is.
>>334819636
>When the game isn't even finished and they start pumping out this nonsense DLC, yes, it is.
Also, they're using the bullshit rng crates to hike prices to retarded levels.
EBIN SHITPOST OP
>>334819636
>paywall
what?
>slow updates
>pvp mode no one asked for (will slow development even more)
>zero communication from the developers
>one time they did communicate, they called their player base entitled
>tripwire lost a bunch of staff during development (probably why development is slow)
>>334819179
>The diverted most of their development staff to
Yea those 2D and 3D artists would do a lot of good adding maps and bug fixing the game.
>>334820141
>pvp mode no one asked
i actually kinda wanted it
>The diverted most of their development staff to
aren't most of the weapons community made?
they also hired another company to make the trading floor, iirc
>>334819636
>Versus in l4d wasn't behind a paywall.
and it ain't behind one in KF2 either.
>When the game isn't even finished and they start pumping out this nonsense DLC
so don't buy them!
I didn't buy a single skinpack for KF1, and I don't see any reason to do so with 2. I have gotten a couple free clothing piece drops though, which is kinda nice.
>>334820141
>pvp mode no one asked for
considering fans made a mod of that for KF1 already, there clearly was SOME demand for it.
I'd prefer having Objective missions more though.
>>334818404
not much, just taking too long to push stuff out really. other than that it's preddy gud
The only thing that went significantly wrong is Tripwire creating expectations on when it would be out of EA that they couldn't even come close to meeting.
They said it would be out by end of 2015. It still isn't, and is looking like it won't be for quite a while.
I don't really have a problem with the pace they've had on the game, but it was monumentally stupid for them to think they could actually finish everything they wanted to in that short timespan. 6 new perks and their weapons, a bunch of new maps, refining assets, a few new zed animations (which are all really good and therefore I assume take a while), an entirely new game mode, AND balancing all that incrementally along the way? In 8 months? Give me a fucking break.
In their Steam store page they jokingly started off with (paraphrasing) "It'll be done when it's done". If they have said that and actually meant it, I'd consider KF2 one of the best examples of early access games. I still do I guess, having put over 200 hours into it already, but it goes to show the power of creating expectations for customers.
On the plus side, they've been making changes faster than ever lately, and given the wipes my teams have been having lately, may have made a good step toward actually nerfing zerkwalling.
Also microtransactions before coming out of EA but everyone already knows about that.
I don't know why people keep saying "No one asked for PvP" I remember when KF2 was first released Steams community hub was filled with people asking and suggesting a PvP mode.
Personally I wouldn't of cared if they had added it or not, and I would of preferred Objective mode to be added first.
But the PvP mode is quite fun and I'm sure once It and all the Perks have been properly balanced it will become even more fun.
When It comes down to the MTs I honestly disapprove of the whole RNG on RNG and I would of preferred it to have DLC like KF1.
I've opened a few crates and USBs and if you don't want to risk losing to much money it's better to open the cosmetic crates and not the weapon skin USBs due to the fact that everything is "mint" and the only difference is the colors/patterns.
>>334820141
>zero communication from the developers
There was a few month span in late 2015 when this was true, but they did a great job with keeping people up with things throughout most of the time. Check their forums and their Steam discussion page. Yoshiro is active as fuck answering everyone's retarded questions.
>>334818404
doom3 levels of darkness on every map
>>334822726
One of the early criticisms was the lack of darkness on the original 3 maps (especially Biotics Lab). Tripwire said from the beginning they wanted to affect player behavior on the map with darkness and breakable lighting, but the first 3 maps didn't do a great job with that.
I understand not liking it, but personally I think it's cool as fuck. Especially since they made flashlights work with every weapon now, so it's more reasonable to deal with.
>>334818404
Shit start.
Early content scarcity got many people burned out.
Also, new content comes at snails pace. Update comes out and everbody plays the new content it brings to death in a matter of days.
Perk roster still not finished.
>>334822726
So, just like the first one, then?
TWI reserving the right to revoke online access if you're a "big meanie >:( "
Promises of Early Access "Done Right!"
>Still don't have all the perks promised
>They instead push out fluff no one asked for like collectables, FLEX and PvP mode. Sometimes, we might get a new map
>Valve style microtransaction/crate system when the game isn't even fully released or finished
>TWI confirmed for only reading input from their own forums
>>334818649
Fuck off shill
>>334818404
Greed, devs became sjw faggots, limited weapons, eventually nothing to use the money on, freee content in a EA game, already a micro transactions shop in development for a 30 dollar EA game
>>334818404
the cringy voice lines
>>334823535
>>TWI confirmed for only reading input from their own forums
This is perfectly reasonable.
What do you expect, them to come to /v/ for feedback?
Face it, this place is a shithole and 99% of the posters here are skillless scrubs and know jack shit about game design. Same for almost any other online game discussion community. The TW forums is also filled with retards, but at least retards who are usually familar with Killing Floor.
>>334824020
What? Nigga, I'm talking about Steam Discussions.
Too much nvidia gimpware
I wish i could refund it
Nothing, I bought Killing Floor 2 for the PvP and that's exactly what I got.
>>334823872
>>334823535
Oh right, thank you for reminding me.
>Having the gall to call the updates """"""FREE"""""", as if they're doing us some sort of favor or service
>>334824141
Why didn't you just buy/play L4D2 then?
>>334823872
>saying my personal opinion with no hint of marketing = shill
>>334822963
>>334823170
why not make SOME zones of maps dark and put item spawnpoints there, to motivate you to go there? as of now almost everything is pitch black, even when the lights are working objects right next to lights are in total darkness
fucking shitty doom3 dejavu
>>334824343
As someone who put over 400 hours in L4D2 with a team of people who were equally experienced with the game, I'm confident in saying that KF2 pvp is already better than L4D ever was.
I'm not about to go into a rant on how shit L4D2 versus is once you become familiar with it, but damn I'm tempted to.
>>334818404
The real problem is that it's nothing like KF1
>>334819636
>Versus in l4d wasn't behind a paywall
It isn't in KF2 either.
God /v/ is getting dumber and dumber. You hate the game based on an extremely moronic misunderstanding. You literally don't even know what you're talking about yet you're compelled to tell us what you think, as though your shitty, uniformed opinion is important.
Why is it becoming more and more common on /v/ for people to just be completely misinformed and not doing the slightest bit of fact checking? People here believe and spread outright lies all the time.
>>334824732Do it
>>334820141
>tripwire lost a bunch of staff during development (probably why development is slow)
This too. Sad, because those devs probably just cashed in the early access and left.
It is quite easy to see the devs left aren't as good, they've been rolling updates even more slowly.
>>334824834
>set of perks with different strengths and weaknesses
>you fight hordes of Zeds, that get bigger and meaner towards the end
>killing them grants you dosh and EXP for your Perk, former which helps you buy better gear, while latter makes your Perk stronger
>if you're good enough, you get to the Boss round
Say what you say, it's VERY much like KF1, with just minor cosmetic changes and some gameplay tweaks to make it more dynamic and mobile.
>early access game
>more expensive than the old one
And then they add gambling microtransactions
At least with the old dlc you could just buy what you want and they were all voiced skins
>>334826102
That guys wrong yes, but you can't deny the pay to win factor thats in both KF games, there is no way that you can be as powerful without putting down money after you've already bought the game.
>>334824732
We all love a good rant, senpai.
It was supposed to be a short early access period
Now it's a long early access period and they've added in microtransactions
Plus it just doesn't feel as good as kf1
>>334826879
What pay to win factor exists in KF2 at this time? You can only buy weapon skins.Are you just making a cheeky joke about buying weapons with dosh
>>334826105
Survivors were ridiculously OP.
People who played VS "competitively" used a server mod (cant remember its name) that overall nerfed survivors immensely, including restricting them to only tier1 weapons. It also did a lot to reduce the randomness that could easily give one team a huge advantage, like making infected waves come in set intervals.
This was important because of the biggest inherent flaw of the mode, which is that it's based entirely around infected team attacking at specific points in the map. In each map, there were specific chokepoints where it was way more advantageous to attack than other places, so every single game, the infected team should just wait for the survivors to get to those points and only attack then. But the problem with that is the survivor team knows they're going to be attacked at that point, so they're not getting surprised. Every match is the same, everyone knows what to expect, and most of the match is just waiting for specific moments that will decide who wins. Lots of waiting around. It was made even more frustrating by the games poor netcode, hitboxes, or whatever. It was really cool waiting for the perfect moment to strike, and seeing your team's charger just clip through the entire enemy team, so your big chance was just gone through nobody's fault but Valve's.
Probably the dumbest part is the scoring system. I cant remember for certain if this is how it worked, but I think it was: if both teams get to the end with every survivor alive, they get equal points, but whichever team took less damage gets 1 extra point. 1 point. Epic.
The server mod we used revamped the scoring system immensely, so it wasn't a problem anymore, but its baffling Valve shipped the game with such a dumb system to begin with.
Those flaws may not sound like a big deal to people who just played a big of VS casually, but you gotta understand, a single game of VS could take a while. Something that time consuming should be better designed.
>Microtransactions
>Early access
It was dead before it was delivered. Like a retarded child.
>>334826879
Yes I can because they nerfed the Chivalry sword big time a long time ago. Pulverizer has been the better choice ever since.
As for the trading floor, it's literally all cosmetic. I'm not a fan of it being added before the EA period is over, but I can overlook it as long as they keep it cosmetic only.
KF1 does have minor p2w elements. Ironically, people complain that KF2 has jumped the shark with microtransactions and should be more like KF1, while forgetting that KF1 had microtransactions (including weapon packs) before KF2 was ever even announced.
>FREE updates
>microtransactions
>literally 4 months between most updates
>an awful pvp mode that they're already balancing towards casuals
>shit maps
>early access done right :)
>>334818404
Your birth
>>334822308
>the PvP mode is quite fun and I'm sure once It and all the Perks have been properly balanced it will become even more fun.
So never? it took hem 3 months to release firebug, 3 more months for gunslinger and another 4 months to release 2 sharpshooter weapons? not even post what his skill tree will be and hardly fixing any of the other classes?
Not only are some perks like demo and support a detriment to the team (unless demo is level 25) but TW constantly says support is fine (literally just get good lmao!) and that demo has most damage so it must be fine (ignoring nuke and how it works)
TW instead of balancing classes decide to add PVP from out of nowhere, this game was supposed to have been finished by the end of 2015, where did a PVP mode fit into that timescale? TW say they have lost a lot of staff which can't be helped I suppose but how better to show the community that you're still dedicated to making this game as good as possible by adding more cosmetics and a new game mode that only adds to the large backlog of balance changes they already had to make.
Commando weapons feel like shit, every class has 1 viable loadout (although crossbow and LAR has mixed this up a bit) TW has NO IDEA what to do about martial artist/dragon or SWAT, TW as a company would rather do something half assed and shitty than listen to intelligent people on their forums, disappearing projectiles bug will never be fixed and zerkwalling will remain a guranteed HoE clear as long as medic doesn't die of bordom from doing nothing but smashing out darts.
Stay tuned!
>>334829649
>support
>detriment to team
So you don't play this game.
>>334829939
you should stop playing hard, the higher tow difficulties really change the game up.. Support is poor on higher difficulties because he doesn't have enough ammo to deal with trash for a full wave and doesn't have the damage output todeal with big guys OR the ammo to deal with the amount of large zeds thrown at you in sui/HOE.
He is a fun class to play but pick firebug/ gunslinger/ zerk and watch your team's victory % skyrocket
>>334830239
Thank god you don't work at TW because you seem to have a complete misunderstanding of why people choose bug/slinger over support and demo
>>334830501
I'm glad you listed the many reasons why I am wrong.
>>334830501
What isn't he understanding? Commandos and Support have no place in high level play
>>334829649
>(unless demo is level 25)
Why would you be concerned about effectiveness of the perk sub-25?
Anyway, I think demo is currently good, but only because of zerkwalling. If they nerfed zerkwalling and people suddenly had to git gud at kiting demo would be worthless.
That's why I think their stats that show demo as being effective is misleading - it's based on people using a strategy that hopefully won't be as common in the future.
I also think SUP shouldn't have better damage or ammo. You can kill big zeds pretty quick, at least in ideal situations. I think it should be buffed in other ways people have mentioned before - better welding, better carry and nade capacity, the stuff it was good at in KF1.
>>334818404
no dosh
>try to warn my fellow homeboys about how KF2 gonna be shit after playing the beta
>you don't know shit
>basically your opinion doesn't matter
>come back few time later
>yeah kf2 is shit
>but they still play it
>mothafucka got nearly 2k+hour ingame+SDK and admit he doesn't like the game
>put up a negative review explaining the bad points but he still plays it
lmao
tried to tell em but they never listened
>>334830895
because pre-25 perks should also be fun to encourage people to level up legitimatley.
Support can't kill big zeds that fast even in ideal situations and when he does it's at a huge ammo expenditure. Make nailgun on perk for support as it's trash for zerk and TW will have a somewhat servicable class.
>>334818404
Content updates every 5 months and microtransactions
Not that microtransactions bother me since it's cosmetic crap anyway but it's not cool
The last content update was this April but the one before that was in goddamn December
How can you make a map and two weapons in 5 months?
If you're a dev and you keep up this pace you're either an indie studio or you're slacking off
PVP is very fun on the Zed side though, I would've never thought
>>334826879
I can't believe the low quality of this post
>>334831474
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=618RjmOc1oY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVTp6H3lvVk
You can indeed take down big zeds pretty fast.
Not like some other perks of course, but I think that's fine. That's why I want it buffed in other ways.
I like the idea of giving it the nailgun. I mostly play zerk and I literally haven't used the nailgun since the first like 2 months after EA release.
>>334819469
except this isn't left4dead this is killing floor, a purely coop game.
why they bothered to make a pvp mode as opposed to actually finishing the classes is beyond me
>>334818404
The first one was garbage. I don't even want to entertain what stupid graphic/programming issues they transplanted to the second one.
>>334818404
They tried to do what Valve did and not realizing that it's okay when Valve does it.
>>334832285
It's (kinda) okay when Valve does it because they do so for completed, finished games.
>>334822726
That's because of fucking casuals like you they made body flashlights that are not tied to weapons, rendering night vision and buddy lighting absolutely useless. Buy a normal fucking monitor and turn up brightness for fucks sake.
>>334832418
>completed,finished games
More like online mods
>>334832669
You're genuinely retarded if you're comparing current DOTA 2 to defence of the ancients or TF2/CS to 15 year old Half life mods
>>334818404
weapon tiers
also skins, versus, delays, shit balance, etc
>>334830880
Commando has a role in giving zed time extensions. ditch him for boss wave though.
>>334818404
>1 item drops a week
fucking kikes
>>334832920
>CS and TF are not mods
Do you not know anything about videogames at all?
>>334820775
>If you don't buy DLC it'll magically make the devs actually work on the base game as opposed to more DLC
wow ebin
>>334833425
No. What I'm trying to say is the games as they are now hardly resemble their original incarnations as mods, for better or for worse in some ways.
>>334833425
I'm not him but you're missing his point entirely.
Do you really think TF2 is the same as the original TF?
I definitely think CSGO is more comparable but if you think that's an accurate description of TF2, come on.
>>334833520
>thinking making a few reskins takes much of time and occupies an entire dev team
seriously now nigga? This crap's literally one of those 5 minute in Photoshop cases, and they clearly have the system for swapping and adding new textures in.
If they get a few inspiring bucks each month from rich kids that buy that shit, good for them.
>>334833419
how does their drop system works? I never understood.
>>334818404
I love the game but here's my opinion on what went wrong:
>infrequent updates
>abysmal balancing, some classes are just bad versions of other classes
>weapon skins
>pushing a versus mode
>it lost the "feel" of the original
this nigga rammjäger
>have RO1
we cod now
>have KF1
we l4d now
what is ths niggas problem?
stop ruining my favorite games, all i want is a fucking sequel
>>334829046
>while forgetting that KF1 had microtransactions (including weapon packs) before KF2 was ever even announced.
kf1 was also feature complete while those dlc items were going on sale. kf2 was basically in paid alpha status while pumping out tons of dlc.
>>334819158
this basically
It's amazing how shitty Tripwire has become
>>334833921
It's the principal of the thing. Them doing something else outside of the promised content AND charging for it is upsetting
>put more zeds and less ammo
>demo explosives deal 50% less for each consecutive explosion if you don't wait 3 seconds
>shotgun deal 50% damage at 4 meters, 25% at 10
>firebug does more explosions than demo
>zeds have sanic speed on higher difficulties, made even worse by game conductor, and teleport if you try to kite, thus all games consist in camping in the same spots
>support/demo has so little ammo he simply needs spare weapons on sui or hoe, despite already being the most dosh hungry perks
>deliberately roadblock modding because there's probably a fun regulation norm
>updates once every 3 months
>balance is crap
>priorities are crap
>PR is crap
>their approach to balance is to look at stats and ignore hoe players
I'm sure there's more, but heh. Can't be asked. Oh wait-
>replace voice menu with a vestigial, glitchy, slow, ugly and cumbersome voice wheel for console players
>remove fun, banterous charm and replace it with I LIKE SHOOTING ZEM and gritty growler serious dudes
>>334834998
I think everyone agrees with that. The point is the idea that it's cutting into their development time on real content isn't necessarily true, as TW themselves have said. Of course, they could be lying, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were, but there's no evidence of it.
Especially considering a good amount of the content, if I'm not mistaken, is fan-made.
>>334835387
>>demo explosives deal 50% less for each consecutive explosion if you don't wait 3 seconds
What? WHAT?
No way, that is too fucking stupid to be real.
>>334835387
>zeds have sanic speed on higher difficulties, made even worse by game conductor,
They recently made it so zed speed isn't changed by the GC.
Also what do you mean by
>deliberately roadblock modding because there's probably a fun regulation norm
and
>their approach to balance is to look at stats and ignore hoe players
>>334835880
not him but
>their approach to balance is to look at stats and ignore hoe players
they nerfed hans on hard only, and said demo was fine for the longest time since they were looking at who did the most damage (which included overkill damage)
>>334835570
Good points, however
>Everyone agrees with that
In this thread maybe. You should check out the defence force on Steam. Their favorite word is 'entitled'
>>334835676
It's real. Supposedly it's there to prevent stacking c4 like you stacked pipebombs in kf1.
In practice, it means demo is slower to kill fleshpounds (which in case you don't play the game -lucky you- is HIS FUCKING ROLE) than zerk, on top of being slow, squishy, having no mean of defending himself, and being the most expensive perk in the game. Did I mention since they don't know how to balance, funpounds are such damage sponges you need more than a third of your rocket stock for a single fp, and you're guaranteed to get 4 on wave 7/10 of sui/hoe, while having no ammo for anything else? Oh, and the off perked crossbow weighs less than your launcher, is cheaper, stuns funpounds, needs less shots to kill them, and is probably faster to reload.
EA DONE RIGHT
>>334819829
>shitposter guy was right about KF2
>>334836007
I don't see how that isn't taking HoE into account though. They saw that players were beating Hans on HoE just fine, so they didn't nerf him. It would be stupid if they nerfed him on HoE because players who play on lower difficulties were finding it too hard.
Also, I read their posts on the forum myself about what they thought about Demo, and I specifically remember that when Yoshiro was talking about Demo's damage he never said that means it's fine. In fact, I remember him outright saying that they don't think it's balanced, simply that its damage output needs to be taken into account. I agree - it means that simply upping Demo's damage isn't necessarily the kind of buff it needs.
Sharpshooter fucking when
>>334835880
>killed chat mods
>killed model mods
>changed soundtrack mods to have you convert to .wem and made patty's theme unmoddable
>removed mutators
Good thing the workshop got here, what a month ago? The anniversary is this week.
>>334836581
Mid October if we're lucky.
>>334835387
>Be TWI
>Make content update in December
>Decide to take a break, making occasional streamings on twitch
>5 months later you deliver a game director, simple as hell pvp that works only on short game normal, one map and two sharpshooter weapons
>Ignore the fact that you wanted to finish the game by October
>Ignore the fact that fans are quickly leaving the game because content updates take too long and there are still 3 perks in the code
How the hell do they get along with their finances I wonder
>>334835676
its a bandage for their shitty weapon design, in the demo beta people would stack hans with c4 and nuke him in like ten seconds
this could be fixed by changing the way c4 works instead of just making demo complete garbage but no cant have that
>>334836560
>They saw that players were beating Hans on HoE just fine
hue
reminder that this happened
>>334818404
Game is fine and fun.
Market items are too expensive imo and updates a bit too slow.
Its not like i regret 30 bucks from the game where iam having a blast playing with friends for hundreds of hours.
Alright let's see if my phone agrees with this webm.
>>334836809
???
The team I usually play with has no problem with Hans, and they're scrubs who usually want to zerkwall.
>>334837396
How about this one?
>>334836630
I didn't know about any of this.
I generally defend TW but if they did this shit intentionally then fuck them.
TW shouldn't have removed custom chat wheel, best part of the game right there and better than any cosmetic customisation right there.
Also whole .wem audio is a clunkly, difficult to work with mess.
EA's 1 year anniversary in 2 days!
>>334837396
>>334837493
>boss does 75 damage on melee
>"lol he's fine"
>>334838628
And yet plenty of people still manage to beat him.
>>334838815
when you roll a group with 2-3 field medics the game isn't hard
either way hans is shitty now
