What do you think about people who prefer Banjo to Mario 64?
likely furry, not to be trusted
>>334765620
They like personality
>>334765620
They prefer music and the game being "funny" to actual better gameplay.
Honestly I just dismiss their opinion entirely related to games after knowing this
They're cool guys.
Same thing I think about people who prefer Majora's Mask to Ocarina of Time, Wind Waker to Twilight Princess, or Dragon Ball to Yu Yu Hakusho
They're cool people, but easily entertained, and don't value substance.
>>334765620
I don't think about it... Ever.
>>334766316
But Banjo has more substance than Mario 64.
>>334765620
I think that Microsoft took a big, steaming dump on them. Mario 64 fans at least got quite a bit of lip service with Sunshine, Galaxy, and Galaxy 2 before the New Super Mario Bros. paradigm proved to be both popular and profitable despite stagnation.
>>334765620
Why would they use Brawl models when there's perfectly good N64 models of both Mario and Luigi in Smash 64?
>>334766316
Majora's mask does have more substance than Ocarina. Wind Waker has more substance that Toilet Princess. I don't know about the last one, but I like Dragon Ball, so I assume you're wrong about that, too.
Oh and what >>334766415 said.
>>334766415
>Banjo has more substance than Mario 64.
i fucking hate this place
>>334766606
I've only seen a tiny bit of YuYu and I knew immediately it was better than DBZ which I saw all of.
>>334766706
Significantly more. It's quality over quantity. Mario 64 has more worlds. Banjo has better worlds, actual characters, more moves, actual puzzles, better secrets, more charm, maybe even better music.
>>334765964
>They prefer music and the game being "funny" to actual better gameplay.
>that horrible sm64 camera
>those horrible controls like the U-turn mario does sometimes
>that dull level design
The Banjo series are so superior to
Super Mario 64, it's unreal how anyone would prefer SM64 if not for nostalgia.
>>334765964
Banjo-Kazooie has better gameplay than Mario 64, I think you need to realize that your opinions are trash-tier
>>334766606
>Wind Waker has more substance that Toilet Princess
But WW has mediocre dungeons and a bunch of blue nothingness while Twilight Princess has AMAZING dungeons, probably the best of the franchise, and the empty large spaces work for the horse battle setpieces.
People really need to realize that as good as Mario 64 was for its time, it's very outdated and has been surprassed by Rare games and later 3D Mario games.
Mario 64 was learning steps.
>>334766316
Just had to jump in and say Yu Yu Hakusho is fucking fantastic.
You are my favorite person in this thread.
I understand some stars are have very slightly different layouts but being able to collect everything in one go in Banjo Kazooie was far more convenient.
Level design was much more interesting.
Music was much better.
Mario controlled more fluidly than Banjo but Banjo made up for that with more moves and abilities
Both were fun but Banjo was objectively the superior game.
>>334766908
>better secrets
the only good secret is the ice key. the cheato stuff is just for unlimited generic items
>>334767009
>slow clunky collectathon has better gameplay than a mechanically perfect/fluid platformer
>>334767864
>implying SM64 is not even slower and clunkier
Nigga people make entire speedruns based on bugs in that game, and whenever you pick up a star you're unnecessarily chucked out the level, slowing shit down.
>>334767705
Compared to Mario 64's amazing secrets which are?
>>334767864
Nice TAS friend. TAS make any game look perfect and fluid
>>334768338
Yoshi
>>334766606
He's right about Yu Yu for sure. It actually subverts a lot of shonen tropes and brings new things to the medium.
Other comparisons are mostly taste based.
Windwaker has a wonderful atmosphere and a sense of adventure that few games truly capture. Twilight princess also has an interesting atmosphere though but it's Much more moody than most Zelda games.
Banjo is much more refined than Mario though. They're both great games but Banjo is just an expansion of the Mario 64 formula with much more polish and personality and comedy. The move set is also very diverse and interesting but feels organic throughout the whole game as elements are added.
Mario is more minimalist but still well designed in giving you abilities that expand what you can do in interesting ways.
>>334765620
Evey Banjo fan I know is very apathetic IRL.
>>334765620
Fucking hipsters, I bet they think Majora's Mask is the greatest Zelda game of all time next to Adventure of Link and that Metroid II is the best in the series.
>>334766316
Yuu Yuu Hakusho ended in the most bullshit fashion ever when the mangaka got bored of it.
Flame of Recca is YYH done right.
>>334765707
>tilts head
>raises paw
Since when did furries become so hated around here?
>>334768338
i never dais mario 64 had better secrets, but its a far better game
>>334765620
It's an opinion.
Mario 64 and kazooie are the only good collectathon platformers on the n64 were shit. Tooie, dk, and conker are mediocre at best.
I respect their opinion. Mario 64 was obviously a better game overall, but goddamn Banjo was great too.
>>334768338
Recycled assets from Ocarina of Time's alpha build that convinced thousands of young gamers for years that Luigi was unlockable.
>>334766908
And Mario controls 100 times better. That alone makes it better.
>>334765620
They have good taste
>>334768013
What does clunky controls have to do with bugs that only pros can pull off?
>>334768790
I love banjo.
And I couldn't have beaten Adventure of Link without save states but I still had a lot of fun with it. You do get better the more you play and it is an interesting take on a side scroller.
>>334767361
>outdated
>outside of wonky camera it controls the most fluidly
If anything there's regression. 3D World is locked to 8 directions rather than full analogue.
>>334768642
>It actually subverts a lot of shonen tropes and brings new things to the medium
Yeah a show with only 3 tournament arcs, but at least it gave us villains randomly stating their power levels as finite numbers
>>334766316
>easily entertained and don't value substance
Funny. I say the same thing about people who like Legend of Zelda and shounen serials.
>>334769172
I bet you think Melee is GOAT too since "professional players" just abuse glitches in the game in order for the there to be any sort of skill involved.
>>334769148
>Mario controls 100 times better
>When he plays like he has butter on his shoes the whole game and the levels are all horrible
Nah
Mario 64 is shit and the only people that still like it are blatant nostalgiafaggots
>>334769385
>>334769385
Atmosphere is greater than substance.
Just look at Twin Peaks and LOST.
>>334765620
Cause it was a better game.
>>334769148
It controls better (not 100 times better), but even 'gameplay is the only important factor'fags know that that alone doesn't make it better.
>>334769629
I always though Twin Peaks was mindnumbing and the lack of substance is what killed the atmosphere of Adult Lord of the Flies.
>>334769629
I've never watched LOST, so your analogy is lost on me (no pun intended). I'm kind of getting the impression you're being sarcastic though.
>>334769473
I enjoy watching Melee matches, but I don't play it because of what you just said. The competitive play requires you too learn too many non-intuitive button schemes and combinations, which in the end become a casual filter.
Now, can you answer my question instead of getting so salty? I didn't even say shit about Banjo. Chill, cuz.
I'm one of those people, honestly I think sometimes it comes down to nostalgia for that kind of stuff.
Banjo-Tooie > Jak and Daxter > Rayman 2 > Ty 2: Bush Rescue > Jak II > DK64 > Banjo-Kazooie > Jak 3 > Ty the Tasmanian Tiger > Ratchet and Clank 2 > Ratchet and Clank > Gex 3D > Croc > Earthworm Jim 3D >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any other 3D platformer you can name >>>>>> Mario 64
>>334765620
idk, but Rare has a very terrible character designs overall.
>>334765620
I think they get it. SM64 was the more important game in defining what a 3D platformer could be, but Banjo was the better game.
>>334770113
Here's your (You)
>>334769792
It's crazy but I'm not. I can see why you'd think so. I own that massive lost box set and everything. Don't have it with me though.
>>334765964
>completely dismissing a games charisma and personality
>thinking SM64 had better game play
My man, just stop.
>>334770113
Negro please! fight me!
>>334766316
Fuck no. I could accept maybe DBZ to YYH, but not Dragon Ball.
>>334770314
Again, I haven't watched LOST. I only know it by reputation. You'd have to give a different example of how style is more important than substance.
>>334767224
Yeah but the horse battle set pieces fucking blow.
>>334768907
Since they started to think they are normal people.
>>334770309
>>334770402
They do, though:
>Banjo
>just a bear
>"give him a Shark tooth because that's what cool guys wear in the 00's"
>Kazooie
>just a bird
>Gruntilda
>just an average witch
You can literally search "witch" on Google images and you'll find the same thing: black clothing, green face and wart on the nose.
>Diddy Kong
>just a monkey with a shirt and a cap
>"put two stars on his shirt because we don't know what else to put in there"
>"paste the Nintendo logo on his cap and they'll hopefully suck our dicks"
>King K.Rool
>just a fat crocodile with a crown
>name is a terrible pun
I guess he has a golden belly and a popping eye which makes it slightly non-generic, but I'm not sure if that's enough to pass it as "good".
>Conker
>just a squirrel with a hoodie
>Battletoads
>"give them sunglasses so they look cool"
Pic related looks like they took the characters from a $0.49 coloring book.
Even >>334770402 has a better design and is more memorable than all of the above.
>>334770508
I was exaggerating that it's more important. They're both important and different artists choose to focus on one more than the other.
The substance of something like Legend of the Galactic heroes carries it even though it is often lacking in style. For example many scenes are pretty poorly animated or very static and uninteresting but the scope of the world and the attention to detail of the plot and character development make up for that.
Meanwhile there are artists like Wes Anderson whose films have plots and interesting characters but are remembered because of their unique presentation, their colorfulnes and their quirky ironic tones.
>>334771596
just a plumber
>>334772142
I wasn't comparing them to Mario.
>>334766415
>Let me go and collect all this crap I don't need
>substance
BK is a much better game than SM64. It's only to be expected though, it was released much later and built on the foundation and standard that SM64 set.
>>334771596
They look no worse than this.
>Banjo-Kazooie had much greater production values and an entire year at least, on Mario.
>today only Mario's lore perseveres in discussion threads.
Just like all Western merits when compared to Japanese media.
mario copied banjo
>>334773070
It was paying it back for Banjo copying SM64.
>>334766706
explain the boss battles in mario then
>>334772920
>Mr. Video Games Himself
>one of the most iconic characters, not only of the video games industry, but the history of media
>worse than a bunch of animals with clothes
Pure delusion.Just in case, I'm just talking about their designs, as in, how they look.
Miyamoto said that he considers Banjo-Kazooie to be the rival to Ocarina of Time.
Use that knowledge as you will.
>>334765620
I think they are about equal in terms of quality, so I don't care. I'm a Mario 64 fan more than Banjo, but I played Banjo later in my life and loved every minute (except some of the Jiggies in Clanker's Cavern).
Both BK and BT are artistically,graphically and have superior level design than M64
>>334773070
>>334773218
>>334765964
Let me guess: you own a Wii U, right? That explains why Nintendo current fanbase doesn't seem bothered to play seven games that look so generic it hurts and exactly the same ot each other.
>>334769052
Elaborate.
>Ocarina of Time's alpha build
I'm not saying this is impossible, but oot came out two years later. What assets are you talking about?
All I remember is the pedestal outside Boo's Big Haunt and people thought it said "L is Real" or something. But in reality it was just a very low res texture and didn't say anything legible.
Mario 64 is silky smooth in the controls department. Banjo is okay, but I can't play the game past like world 2 before getting bored. Still fun, though.
>>334773456
>equal in terms of quality
See I don't know about that.. Banjo seemed like the higher quality game, didn't M64 come out with the N64 and Banjo shortly after?
How can people like that shitty fucking banjo game? Movement is stiff, the game is embarrassingly easy as fuck, collecting is more obnoxious and the main character is stuffed bear of nightmares. I emulated the game a month ago and was thoroughly disappointed.
>>334775087
Literally the exact same as how I feel about SM64, although replace the bear part with Mario's voice.
>>334775282
I don't like Mario 64 either but even I think it's the better game. How can you "literally" feel the exact same for Mario 64 when it objectively has less of a focus on collecting in levels and more fluid movement physics?
Banjo is more like an action adventure game than a platformer, unlocking new combat moves, shooting, collection and shit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0FbkCTAdGk
>>334773336
>Fat human with a mustache, overalls, and a hat
>Good design
by your logic
>>334775787
Because the camera controls can seriously fuck with you if you're taking advantage of said movement physics, as a webm in this thread proudly demonstrated. Similarly, whilst there's more to collect in BK, you can do so in a single sitting since you're not arbitrarily dumped out of a level after collecting things. I also feel the level design, graphics, themes, and music are much better approached - SM64 frequently has to resort to lazy floating platforms and other oddities, you don't get any of that shit in BK.
>>334775942
>fat
Mario has literally never been fat. Look at him, he's actually pretty lean.
>>334765620
Kazooie: Hah Mario your brother looks like a fag.
Luigi: Y-y-y-you too.
>>334766908
You people are such Rareware cocksuckers I swear.
>>334765620
I think they're alright and shouldn't be beheaded.
>>334775942
lol I'll bite.
Mario
>overalls
>gloves
>unusual cap shape
>round nose
>moustache
Any Rare character
>animal
>one clothing item
>>334776513
You should try playing both games back-to-back. BK really is better, not by a huge amount I grant you but I fail to see how anyone would think it's worse.
>>334776352
what do kazooie's eggs smell like? haha
>>334776706
>Liugi, Wario, Waluigi
>>334765620
Well I think of myself pretty highly.
>>334776706
They do have some more to them though. Banjo doesn't match the proportions of an actual bear, he's got a very cartoonish look to him. And of course, the necklace, backpack and shorts.
Kazooie however, didn't have much until Nuts and Bolts. In fact, that's sort've the ONLY character I feel improved with that game, designwise.
Gruntilda is generic green witch. However, there's all those subtle things too. Her odd bell shape, elongated chin, stripy socks.
That's not even bringing to mind how they move. They all have very unique motions to how the even just walk and run.
>>334776706
Banjo
>backpack
>distinctive yellow shorts
>round nose
>necklace
>is a bear
>has a witty bird bitch in backpack
>>334768013
>nd whenever you pick up a star you're unnecessarily chucked out the level, slowing shit down.
the game is a good platformer so retrying shit with a great moveset can be enjoyable. Unlike Banjo which seems designed for fucking todlers
>>334768482
even though it is a TAS he isn't wrong, that's just a really extreme example
the only part of banjo that stands up to time is the music
>>334770108
I know you are trying to be funny, but this is actually pretty accurate if you move Mario 64 up to second place.
>>334777292
This is a high-quality approved shitpost right here.
>>334777292
>the game is a good platformer so retrying shit with a great moveset can be enjoyable.
>>334777351
have you even played both games?
Mario can rush through a level with style and a variety of moves.
Only way to pick up speed in Banjo is to press a "run" button and move a little faster. Banjo's skill ceiling is fucking pathetic.
>>334777475
>not taking different routes with wall jumps and cool dives
At least Banjo has the decency to package all the items in one mediocre level.
>>334777552
t. Autismo speedrunner
I personally only like speedrunning 2D platformers, as it barely makes sense or even works well in 3D ones unless you're tool-assisted.
So let me summarize the entire thread
SM64:
>MUH MOVESET
BK:
>MUH LEVELS
Banjo Kazooie has the more fuckable sidekick. Mario's sidekick doesn't even show up in 64 except as a cameo.
>>334777674
>speedrunning
I don't even watch speedruns. If you aren't shit at videogames you can get through a level pretty quickly in a satisfying way. You can do something quick and stylishly without it being speed runs, just like a good platinum game.
Banjo is just a better polished boring experience.
I refuse to believe anyone actually managed to beat M64 without being able to pull off some impressive moves by the end.
>>334777552
And why would I beat an easy game in the most complicated way you can think of if you can just go straight for the starwithout using any ninja level skills? That's something only autist do.
>>334777043
Except they're based on designs from the same IP.
Now you're just shitposting with whatever you think of. It's like if I said the same thing of Dixie Kong just because she looks like Diddy Kong, or Kranky Kong for having more or less Donkey Kong's face but with an elderly body.
>>334777106
I kinda like Rare's animations and the way they portrait their characters' emotions, I admit. The characters in Donkey Kong 64 are full of emotions and personalities. I really liked the game for that (except for its clunky as fuck controls).
But we're talking about looks. Put Banjo on a silhouette and it could look like a lot like, idk, generic Hanna Barbera dogs or rats, but fatter.
Take for example, Ryu. He's literally just a dude on a karate(?) outfit and has a headband. And you can STILL tell it's Ryu by just looking at its silhouette.
>>334777670
Of course. I was more responding to the 'retrying shit.' Cause honestly I dislike that about SM64 a lot after playing Banjo.
But either way, I enjoy both games a shit ton.not as much as Rocket Robot on Wheels though.
>>334777884
I actually agree with this.
>>334778046
I dunno I feel by this point, especially since what happened with the Smash Ballot, Banjo is WELL recognized.
Besides, I know people don't recognize even the greatest of characters, like Mario and Mickey Mouse.
>>334778002
It's not even remotely complicated, it's just using skill to finish a level faster. It's inherently satisfying to pull something off well.
Do you shoot your way through a stealth game?
It's not tough, after a few hours anyone can pull off good shit, unless you are absolutely terrible at videogames
>>334777937
If I wanted something platinum-like I'd play a platinum game. I can understand if you prefer to speedrun with stylin' moves but that's not how most would play a 3D platformer, and hence it's not how the vast majority of 3D platformers are designed. Personally, I enjoy it when 3D platformers feel exploratory - a varied set of worlds to find secrets and challenges in, and BK largely delivers in that aspect, at least given limitations of its time. I don't really want to speedrun that at all, but I do fucking love speedrunning 2D platformers, be it classic Mario, Rayman (esp. Origins/Legends), DKC (esp. DKTF), etc. - All of which have obvious design choices to make speedrunning satisfying.
>>334765620
They value level design over mechanics, which is fine by me.
>>334778046
Seems like a pretty recognizable silhouette to me.
Blinded by nostalgia and ignorant of decent level design and pacing
Do you think kazooie poops in the backpack?
>>334770113
The only things that came out of rare with regard to character design were Krystal and Conker.
>>334778141
According to VGChartz, Banjo-Kazooie and Banjo-Tooie together have sold just a little above 5 million worldwide. That's nowhere near being a "worldwide classic" if you ask me. To me, Banjo-Kazooie is one of those things that became a viral thing years later because someone said it was cool on the internet and it spread. Not saying the games are bad, just not iconic.
It's exactly the same shit that happened with Shovel Knight. Someone said it made sense to have him in Smash and the concept spread, even though it only had one game and it sold a little bit more than 1 million units. And the excuse was "Smash needs an indie rep!".
I would've said Bayonetta didn't made sense to be in Smash, since the whole series have sold around 3 million units, but the game was technically funded by Nintendo.
>>334778724
>SM64
>better level design than BK
Nah, it gets pretty lazy at times with just random floating platforms with no context whatsoever, and I'm not referring to just the bowser levels, either.
>>334778476
>mario 64 doenst have level design
>>334767864
What the fuck
>>334778949
good thing Mario 64 is a fucking video game then, and a Mario game at that. HURR, PLATFORMS IN A MARIO GAME?
Banjo's levels are way too fucking big making the game feel sluggish and slow. Sure they look like cohesive environments but they're far more of a chore to play through than Mario 64's levels.
>>334778898
>he thinks sales are an accurate portratal of a game's following
Lots of people emulate or buy used carts of BK these days, sales from 2 decades ago are hardly going to help. I bet you also ignored sales on XBLA and Rare Replay.
>>334778898
True, true.
Either way, I still feel Banjo is designed quite nicely. Honestly, the only characters with 'little' design to them are all the side characters in Diddy Kong Racing. They are all one offs either way though.also, more proof for my tinfoilhat theory on Bayonetta being rigged to get in. Not that I mind her, just still don't buy she was the most voted.
>>334767864
>All those full A presses
Into the trash it goes
>>334778476
but Mario 64's level design is better
Banjo came from the era in 3D games where developers wanted to make levels as big as possible just to prove they had the technology to do so.
these huge wide open piece of shit levels pale in comparison to how much fun you can have in Whomp's Fortress.
>>334779107
Disagree, most BK levels aren't that large, except arguably Rusty Bucket Bay it's pretty quick to go from A to B throughout. The level of challenge also reaches greater heights, although it's worse to speedrun with its moveset I'll give you that much.
>>334779315
BK levels aren't that large, and there's plenty to do in them.
>>334768482
go find footage of banjo that looks anywhere near as fluid as this. you cant, because the mechanics just arent there and the skill ceiling and speed is much lower in banjo
>>334779214
No anon, a shitload of people voted for her because of muh ass.
>>334779212
Sales speak a lot, specially for a N64 that came on a time where pirating was ararething.
If we're talking about Smash, then you bet your ass Nintendo doesn't give a fuck about about free downloads.
And by the way, the Rare Replay sold 700k units worldwide.
The only 3rd Parties in Smash, which are suppossedly deserving the spot, are:
>Sonic (140 million)
>Final Fantasy (111 million)
>Pac-Man (43 million)
>Street Fighter (37 million)
>Mega Man (30 million)
I'm sorry but you can't put fucking Banjo next to those industry titans.
>>334765964
More that I prefer the level design and approach (jumping into the level and exploring all around top to bottom) to that of Mario 64 (going from point A to point B, then from A to C, A to D, etc.)
Both are really good and have their merits, though, that's just my preference.
Mario 64 does feel better to play, but that only has so much bearing if you're not doing self-imposed challenges--it's cool if you are, but don't kid yourself that it's an integral part of the game that should be considered by all players.
>>334765620
I ask why they didn't play Psychonauts.
>>334768642
>It actually subverts a lot of shonen tropes and brings new things to the medium.
No, that's Flame of Recca
>>334766985
I agree with some stuff but the controls are super tight, best controls of that era
>>334781268
But we CAN put him there!in the next smash bros.
>>334781268
But you can put Bayonetta there
>>334781849
>>334776238
>>334782098
The Bayonetta franchise has sold about 3 million copies total. You definitely can't place her with the 3rd Parties. But considering that Nintendo financed Bayonetta 2, then I guess you can consider her a Nintendo character.
>>334782980
Banjo was one at one point, and would have been in Melee had shit not been going down with Rare. Hell, he was even considered for 64, and that was when they were being very selective about just having the most important names (and Ness as an advertisement for EB64, and C. Falcon because he resembled the Dragon King fighter)
>>334767224
Have you recently played TP? I liked it a lot when it first came out but after playing the HD version it's weak as fuck. All are forgettable straight lines besides like two.
>>334766985
M64 had tighter controls, better camera and actual platforming rather than collect-the-everything
>>334778821(haha)
>>334781268
>>>/smashboards/
And take your stupid strawman opinions with you.
>>334765620
prefer story and characters over gameplay
>>334770921
NORMIE LEAVE
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>334781849
I played it its a 6-7/10 game desu
More so there's things I like about banjo and things I like a out mario. But neither are perfect and honestly dated. Though I've gotten more enjoyment out of banjo just because I found the world more fun to explore and liked that finding jiggies doesn't just shoot you out of the current world.
>>334770468
i think the comparison was meant to be to DBZ, most people who I've met who like DBZ didn't like or straight up didn't even know Dragon ball existed, its pretty sad really.
