I think Duke nukem 3D is better than the classic Doom games. Discuss.
>>334635638
Final Doom (Plutonia) > Duke Nukem 3D > Doom II > Ultimate Doom
inb4 some parroting cuck from /vr/ memeing that UD is the better than Doom II. Fuck off faggot
>>334636264
UD has better maps, and the SSG limits weapon variety.
The new enemies in Doom 2 are fun, though.
![ss_c68e83515e6aafa6e837a097a76838feea51d362.1920x1080[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/bljMFmo.jpg "ss_c68e83515e6aafa6e837a097a76838feea51d362.1920x1080[1].jpg")
>>334635638
>>334636264
I think Shadow Warrior is better than both. It's newer and has the technical advantage, but apart from that it's just less raw.
>>334636443
Doom 1 for level design
Doom 2 for SSG and enemies
That's what it boils down to, really.
>>334636264
Doom II is a glorified expansion pack
Duke Nuke, Blood, and even Shadow Warrior are all better games than Doom.
>>334635638
Okayyyy, but it came after right? So it's gonna have more features, like slopes, free-aim, scripted events, etc. Is that really fair to compare? The subject matter and tone is totally different too. The only thing they have in common is they're both FPSes.
>>334635638
I like Hexen.
>>334636264
>Plutonia
>good
![2093704-strife_title[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/KeSSWTc.png "2093704-strife_title[1].png")
>>334637079
>sewer level
>that music
love douk SW and blood equally but they aren't motherfucking DOOM
>>334635638
Blood is still the best of them all
>>334635638
>not quake
get your years right kid.
>>334636957
>shitter on /v/
>shitter on /v/
>>334636264
UD>TNT>Plutonia=Doom2
It's been a while since I've played Duke, can't really make a comparison.
Agreed, always bet on Duke.
>>334637614
Despite being generally shit, Forever was fun in an indescribable way. Shrunken duke burger level in particular and the DLC I really liked.
>>334637748
>Forever was fun in an indescribable way
Because it had the spirit of Douk, in Duke Nukem himself and the returning enemies and weapons.
>>334636769
>Is that really fair to compare?
Heh, that's really ironic of you to say. People are comparing the new Doom game to the originals and calling the latter better. Besides it's only a three years difference between the release of the original doom and duke 3D. And both games have been modded to hell since. The core gameplay is pretty similar too, so yeah I would say it's pretty fair to compare them.
>>334637748
Duke burger is the only interesting level
No one remembers anything else about the game
>>334638298
No, I remember the truck ride to the dam ( despite shit controls) and the western town being fun. The dam is interesting but fuck the part with the octobrains and those barrels (you know the one) and the underwater boss is the worst thing in the game
>>334638489
Speaking of octobrains, why are they so fucking op in forever? In 3d I just kill them with the pistol or even kick them to death. But they are fucking annoyingly difficult in forever.
>>334638994
dont remember any enemy being hard
i only remember the big empty maps filled with driving
>>334635638
Of course it is, my first FPS. Doom a shit.
>>334637456
This desu
>>334638994
>Cycling through 3 pain sounds while single jump noise intensifies
>> LOOKS LIKE IT'S TIME... TO KILL
Really Duke?
>>334638994
>In 3d I just kill them with the pistol
Why? Their pain sound is so fucking grating after a few shots. I just whip out the Devastator, since a single rocket from that kills them instantly.
>>334638489
>the underwater boss is the worst thing in the game
I thought the underwater boss was pretty easy, especially since you can use the freeze ray on it and kill it one hit.
>>334639316
>that Energy Weapon in TtT / LotB
my fucking dick
>>334639615
Really? never knew that. Reminds me of "killing" mehrunes Dagon in oblivion with the wabajack.
Boss fights would be more fun if you didn't have to use the rocket launcher which was shit and not anywher near as fun as 3D one and limited ammo forces you to loop back to ammo crates and the underwater one has the air limit and there's no scuba gear.
I don't get it, Duke could go into outer space in 3D and his cigar still worked, how is a little water gonna stop such a man? At least let him have his flippy floppies
>>334636602
The enemies in Shadow Warrior dont provide good enough combat. But its good too
>>334639876
TtK, rather.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TKbYeyLDsI
>>334639316
That game was outdated as fuck on release yet still managed to be good.
>>334639158
Yeah, I remember those boring driving levels too. The octobrains were more annoying than difficult because their attack is huge, deal a lot of damage and it's practically unavoidable and even have some splash damage too so they hurt you through walls. You can't even use explosives to kill them quickly because they just throw them back at you probably kill you instantly. That giant octabrain boss fight was a fucking pain on the max difficulty.
>>334640248
I want to know which one is going to pass the NESfag autism test.
Blood XL or EX
There's only two things that a source port needs to do well for me to like it.
Good OpenGL renderer that doesn't stretch.
FUCKING GOOD MOUSE INPUT. Even GZdoom you have to set mouselook to half that of the X value for the Axes to be equal.
>>334639959
>>334635638
na man, it feels slower and for whatever reason, even with mouse acceleration off its input is really floaty. But its still a classic great game that holds up today.
Discuss your opinion?
Alright.
I don't HATE Duke Nukem 3D but I really don't put it close to Doom or Quake.
I think Blood and Shadow Warrior are much better games simply for their weapons.
I really dislike Duke Nukem 3Ds weapon and most of the 2nd chapter.
Even excluding the 2nd chapter, level design is still iffy at best, it shows off the engine well but sometimes it becomes bizarre and difficult to navigate. Moreso from Doom being Dukes level design gets far more complex with levels being more vertical and disorienting.
I think Duke 3D is good fun when your in the mood for it, but it can really be annoying for me and I'd much prefer a lot of the classic lineup that DOS era shooters have to offer.
>>334640832
What's wrong with Duke's weapons? I found them not only to be the most creative of the Build games but also the most polished and balanced of the bunch.
>>334639356
I like the pistol, but mostly to save some ammo at least at the beginning of the level, because I always restart after every level to add some challenge so I always start with only the pistol. It's more fun to always start from scratch and have to find the weapons around the level and conserve ammo.
>>334640832
Duke levels capture the feeling of a real place the best for me out of any of the 2.5d classics. The buildings are generally designed like buildings, keycard system aside.
>the reactor
>all of the 4th episode stuff like duke burger and the themepark
>the flooded canyon
>the working subway train
I think mission impossible is my favorite level
>>334640832
>Even excluding the 2nd chapter, level design is still iffy at best, it shows off the engine well but sometimes it becomes bizarre and difficult to navigate. Moreso from Doom being Dukes level design gets far more complex with levels being more vertical and disorienting.
>>334641240
Agreed. Duke3D tried and succeeded with levels that try to be realistic and make sense. Too bad the fun kind of got lost on the way. The pacing, too.
>>334640947
the shrinker, microwave, lasertripmine, and freezethrower all have uses that are too specific in my opinion.
A lot of monsters won't shrink for example aside from some of the smaller enemies, yet levels throw shit tons of ammo for it regardless.
I like pipebombs and the first five weapons, but excluding the devastator after that it gets iffy.
>>334641240
I always get lost in the subways station and the flooded canyon, the last chapter is also in my opinion, a mess.
I do agree that when areas are captured in Duke they are done well, I like some of the levels like the E4 market and early E1 and E3 maps.
>>334641763
*the last level in the first chapter is a mess, not the whole last chapter*
sorry I'm on cold medicine
>>334635638
I love Duke 3D, but Doom is more fun to pick up again and again. I wish the Duke 3D content making fanbase was at Doom's level though.
>>334642223
To clarify I mean that by quantity.
>>334641763
The Shrinker works on all but like two enemies, even the mini Battlelords can be shrunken. and same that it doesn't shrink, like Protozoid Slimers, just outright die instead.
>>334640832
>Dukes level design gets far more complex with levels being more vertical and disorienting.
The only time I actually got "lost" on a level is with the level called "smithsonian terror" from the out in dc expansion. It was way too fucking big and I got tired of trying to find one of the keycards. But other than that? The level the abyss is pretty annoying because to progress you have to stand in a very specific place that triggers the path to continue. I also don't like the sentry drones, pretty badly designed enemy in my opinion.
>>334637613
>Chaingunners.wad better than anything
>>334635638
Hello LGR
>>334635638
I loved both games and don't see why I would choose between the two.
DN3D is still an interesting character. By today's standards, it would be lambasted for its lazy meme humore; the game is loaded with OJ Simpson trial and movie references not to well hidden.
Episode 2 was complete dogshit with its ventmaze and teleporter antics, but otherwise a byproduct of typical 90's level design. The third and fourth episodes are bretty gud.
What really made the game was how easily it was customized. If you had a modem and a decent ISP, you could go on to DukeWorld and download custom levels, total conversions, pornart packs, and other goodies until your dinky 220MB hard drive was full.
>>334642792
>You learn how to shoot the battlelords so they shrink every time
Literally ruins half the challenge in the game.
What the hell happened to 3DRealms? They were on top of the world in the 90's.
For whatever reason, Ken Silverman felt too intimidated by Carmack and just gave up on engine coding.
George Broussard forgot how to business and both mismanaged DNF into ground and lost the Duke license almost entirely.
The few known members of the dev team either dropped off the face of the Earth or moved to Thailand to retire at 35.
>>334645116
>those hardcores who stuck through even the company closing to ship DNF
Do we pity or honor them? Both?
>>334645116
Turns out 3DRealms got lucky and sat on their asses with the Douk money, playing WoW instead of making DNF.
Remember those old DNF trailers? All faked just to say they were working on the game.
>>334645116
>yfw you remember that Gearbox of all devs is sitting on the Duke license right now
JUST FUCK MY FRANCHISE UP SENPAI.
>>334645739
>Anthony Burch doesn't work for Gearbox anymore
Thank fucking god he won't get to touch the next Duke game.
>>334645309
>Do we pity or honor them? Both?
It is really hard to tell, because outside of Broussard demanding levels of the week and perpetual engine scrapping, whatever went on inside 3DR was incredibly opaque.
>>334645640
>playing WoW instead of making DNF
No offense, but do you have a source for this? I followed development on their forums through the late 90's/early 00's, but never heard anything credible about a WoW addiction.
>>334645857
But, hey, don't worry! We love Duke and we're gonna make something awesome. Trust us! Duke Nukem :Colonial Marine: the story of Duke being sent back in time and shrunken and shot into his own ass to save himself from the alien cancer is going to be great
>>334640248
Is this real
>>334646397
It's finally happening, friend.
>>>/vr/3135124
>>334646397
yeah kaiser is doing it. it's happening
>>334646397
>>334646546
http://albierio.tumblr.com/post/140149950596/there-goes-kaiser-doing-gods-work-again-found-on
>>334636602
>half of the game's levels are elder god tier
>the other half are shit tier
Funny how that works.
![Gears-of-War-2[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/3UL3HMj.jpg "Gears-of-War-2[1].jpg")
>>334640617
>FUCKING GOOD MOUSE INPUT
Just get bmouse.exe
>>334647965
>Funny how that works.
Not really, it was more of a product of how 90's development would work. One person may do one episode and another person would do another. There was no review or checking process. It would result in wildly uneven experiences once you started playing through the retail version of a game. Games like Halloween Harry/Alien Carnage had some truly terrible levels that wouldn't wash out in the shareware version because of it. It was one of the reasons warez was alive and well during the 90's despite demos being everywhere. More often than not, the best levels were in the demo.
>tfw I'm the only one who actually liked Episode 2
It was dark and spacey
Shadow Warrior: Deadly Kiss fucking when?
>>334648737
Nah I love it too mang. Only plebs dont like it. Fusion Station is a ridiculously awesome level.
>>334648737
I loved Dark Side, Tiberius Station, and Lunar Reactor. The rest, not so much.
don't mind me just posting the best douk song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhAjmKkrADM
>>334649141
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogg0zE-JxsI
>>334649141
>>334649325
That's not
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8ifX535AmI
>>334637748
I remember getting really butthurt that reviews of Forever frequently cited, "Why is there platforming in a shooter?" That's what Duke does. Duke Burger was the best level in that game.
>>334649519
Try again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo6LJ3EheA4
>>334649902
Expansions don't count tho
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juPYX_Luzo4
BUT WHAT ABOUT THIS?
>>334650051
Of course they do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjZ6jQ7ssYU
>>334650148
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6L1GaYJAOSI
Man why is Duke Caribbean so perfect?
>>334650110
only game i've played which is like a classic horror movie the gameplay is a bit average though
>>334650384
Some things just are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMqqNi5DwXg
>>334636602
Shadow warrior has terrible boss fights, it is more challenging than duke 3d but blood is the ultimate game of them all.
Personally prefer duke though.
>>334650110
>MC makes audible comments about all the items you can interact with
>about a quarter of the way through get a female companion who invisibly follows you around
>she gets an extra comment on top of all the existing ones
It's the little things.
>never played life's a beach or duke it out in DC
am I missing out?
>>334650803
DC is hit and miss with the levels, but life's a beach is great.
>>334650110
It looks like an awkward hybrid between a point and click and FPS.
>>334650803
Caribbean is the best expansion to ever grace vidya, so yes, you're missing out.
DC is okay.
>>334646710
how soon until he get CnD from Atari?unless Night Dive somehow bought Blood from Atari and he actually has the source
>>334650803
A bit but probably not much.
Life's a beach suffers from claustrophobic map designs and DC can have levels that might leave you confused as what to do but generally the better experience.
If you want classic duke without downloading mods and all that I'd recommend it.
>>334645116
>Ken Silverman felt too intimidated by Carmack and just gave up on engine coding.
the man should have joined Carmack, learn from the master himself, Silverman had the spark of autism and could have found his calling with Carmack
So that Bombshell game being made with BUILD, do you think it could be good?
Do you think it could actually recreate the old 90s FPS feel?
and Duke Nukem's classic games are better than 3D
Whats your point?
>>334636602
Shadow Warrior had some truly awesome ideas. Finding nukes to launch at enemies? Genius. Suicide bombers whose ghost crawl out of them and pull sprite rotation tricks on your eyes? Genius. Irritating, but genius.
>>334651503
Some old Duke3D mappers are working on it so it's probably gonna be at least decent enough.
I bet it's going to be even better than the actual game.
>>334651657
so it will be like Bionic Commando ReArmed or Dark Void Zero all over again
>>334645116
I've talked to old duke developer, I learned a lot of cool stuff from them.
Told him to write a book about all of it. New 3drealms still has possibilities hopefully bombshell won't be the bomb that ruins them.
>>334635638
I feel the same. Duke also got some cool add-ons too. D.C. and Caribbean were some top tier expansion packs.
>trip wire bombs
>n64 has dooms and quakes
>nobody ever made a metroid mod
for shame
>>334651562
>Irritating
Very much so. Coolies were annoying to begin with, since they can one shot you, but then you have to wait a second to see if the ghost spawns only for the fucker to phase out and become invulnerable and invisible for however long it wants.
>>334635638
You're right.
>>334652094
>did a Sword / Fist only run
>mfw Coolies
>>334652083
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDqYZEERuas
>>334652075
>freeze ray
What was the point?
>>334652250
Freezethrower is bonkers and I fucking love it.
>>334652075
>>334652250
Multiplayer
>>334651992
Caribbean is so much fun I think I'm going to go play it again tonight.
>>334652249
dead project is dead
>>334651760
Man I hope so.
>>334638994
>rented Duke Nukem from Red Box instead of buying it because I knew I was only going to play it once anyways
>Decide to do with "Keep the golden pistol" achievement on the hardest difficulty to at least make it memorable
>Literally the only thing I remember besides Dukeburger is just how fucking hard the Octobrain boss fight was with only a pistol and a rocket launcher
Holy fuuck, that goddamn fight was a nightmare
>>334652760
>tfw no Duke Nukem: Asian Action
So what's everyone's top 3 FPS games?
>>334640951
You know, I've never done a reboot run on every level. That could be pretty fun.
Could be annoying too, since so many enemies are bullet sponges.
>>334635638
You are not wrong if you take into account vanilla doom vs Duke 3D.
In fact, I would go as far as to say that it's a complete upgrade.
But in the modern age of sourceports, Doom > Duke. Mostly because Duke really hasn't had the kind of following Doom has.
I wish gearbox would get their head out of their ass and realize this. Or that id wasn't taken over entirely by Bethesda.
only real consolation is that Croteam is still going strong.
>>334653296
1. Blood
2. Doom
3. Duke 3D4. Powerslave (PSX)
>>334653296
This will be hard.
1) Final Doom
2) Serious Sam The Second Encounter
3) Rainbow Six Rogue Spear (But only the multiplayer. It's the only team-based multiplayer that I ever fully enjoyed.)
C&C Renegade takes 4th place. Duke Nukem 3D takes 5th.
This is somewhere on there, too.
>>334653296
Dook 3D
Half Life
Doom
AVP2
Quake
Damn, it's really tough to name just 5.
>>334653296
1. Doom
2. Half Life 1
3. F.E.A.R.
>>334653296
1) Hexen
2) Douk 3D
3) Unreal 1
>>334653296
Is that Samsara? Do people still play that?
>>334653019
>no Duke Nukem/ Lo-Wang coop mode
>>334653359
do you know anyone who has made maps or campaigns in SS that replicate a more old FPS feel with monsters placed through a map rather than spawned in en mass?
>>334653296
Duke
Blood
Quake
Painkiller
I can't name just 3.
>>334653296
Quake
STALKER Shadow of Chernobyl
Ghost Recon
![latest[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/TwOB1Sq.png "latest[1].png")
>>334637079
>>334637261
Thank you. I just can't enjoy Doom or Doom II anymore, but I love replaying Strife about once a year.
>>334654264
Only for the original Serious Sam
Not for the remasters
And honestly I don't think it's worth playing old Serious Sam again for those maps, because they felt like the mediocre Doom maps (lots of closed spaces. Doors closing behind you and monster closets opening up), etc
>>334653296
Where's Prisoner 849 in that pic?
Anyway
1.) Unreal Tournament
2.) Half-Life 1
3.) STALKER SoC
>>334653329
It's annoying on some levels that start you off having to fight an enforcer or sentry drones, but most levels only make you fight troopers or have a shotgun close enough to the beginning of the level, maybe in a secret area, so you at least have a fighting chance. It's pretty fair overall. It's more fun because you end up having to variate and use your entire arsenal to conserve ammo instead of just blasting the entire level with the shotgun and the rocket launcher ammo you found on the previous level. I also wanted to change the con files to reduce duke's health to only 50 at normal health, and a max of 100 with the atomic health. Each atomic health giving you only 25 health. But in the end I wasn't able to do it. I tried but it's a fucking mess to change the files in the megaton edition and I don't know how to do it.
>>334654782
Where's Prisoner 849 in the actual mod?
>>334654782
Were they patched in? I don't remember them in Samsara.
![dukenukemzeron64screen2[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/b13p7nY.jpg "dukenukemzeron64screen2[1].jpg")
Duke Zero Hour was one of my favorite games on the N64.
One of the worst parts about it though was all the insta kill shit laying around and having to replay an entire half hour level because of no quick saves.
Controls were kind of wonky too but I got good at them eventually and they were fine.
Would like to see it get the Turok treatment and redone and ported to PC but it will never happen.
even though I don't think D44M looks all that great I really hope it does well so my dreams of a Wolfenstein/Doom crossover can still keep kicking
>>334654887
>>334654939
Oh that's for Samsara characters? I thought it was for old school FPS protags.I haven't played Samsara. Should I?
>>334655043
It's pretty good with the right bunch of people. Chex is a little OP though.
>>334654782
Is Gina the canon Prisoner model? I can't remember the original version and Unreal Gold is just whatever you have selected for MP.
>>334652250
anti-air.
>freeze those flying fucks and watch them shatter after they plummet down
>>334653296
1. Painkiller Black
2. Serious Sam 1 (when playing co-op)
3. Half Life 1
>>334653296
Op here.
1. Dick kickem 3D
2. Final Doom
3. Half life 1
>>334655256
As long as you mind the angles and don't hurt yourself like a dumbass, Freezethrower does decent damage all around, really.
No one has mentioned Dark Forces yet? For shame.
>>334651120
according to him on /vr/ he's reverse engineering
>>334657271
It's really good, but I think Jedi Knight was much better.
>>334657769
Minus the jedi battles. Either I was really shitty at games back then or they were unreasonably difficult.
