What is so fundamentally wrong about MOBA games?
>>334283129
You spend hours learning the came trying to git gud, thinking the reason you suck so hard is because of the complexity of the game.
10 thousand hours later it dawns on you that you still suck because of the inherently flawed mechanics of the game.
I hope you had fun getting there.
Their communities obviously kinda like CS:Go and high error competitive games,punishment for error is high and thus perfectionism is valued making mistakes be taken to savagery.
maybe that you can die unlimited times throughout the match
>>334283129
They're boring and basically just mobile shit brought to multiplayer. Just look at the playerbases, and you'll see who's attracted to shit games like MOBAs.
nothing, they are the perfect game
depending on four other people to not fuck up and waste, minimum, 20 minutes of your time
too reliant on teammates, games last too long
>>334283606
>50/50 forced win ratio is a myth
I got played like everyone else, 'matchmaking' is designed to keep you on the hamster-wheel for as long as possible
2500+ games later, guess i got my monies worth
>>334283606
looks like you couldn't get good and decided to blame the game for your shortcomings
>>334283129
Normies love it.
Accept it /v/, this is the real reason you hate it.
>>334283129
nothing
people are just morons. especially on /v/
/thread
>>334285101
>losing a game is a waste of time
They're designed to be addictive, not to be deep or challenging.
ITT: People inept at gitting gud
>>334285713
this
>it's not Warcraft 3 therefore it's bad!
>>334286339
this.
>solo queue ranked
>game starts
>3 - 0 at 5 minutes
>your team is losing
> "GG guys, i afk fountain, stop losing your time, it's gg"
>the guy proceeds to sell all his items and draw shit on the floor with sentrys
don't play the game if you can't lose like a man. whiny bitches man, i swear.
Nothing. It's just that bad players who can't get to the top percentage skill levels find it easy to blame the game and other players instead of themselves.
>>334286339
Losing a good game isn't a waste of time. Losing a game from a mongoloid teammate is.
MOBAs are taken way too seriously. The depth they have doesn't condone how seriously they are taken. The biggest issue though is the business model with MOBAs. Balance or competitive focus is NEVER the primary motivator for anything in the genre: monthly patches that shake up the meta before it even has a chance to form, bimonthly champs to pad out the roster where half are left to rot and the other half (often the newly released/redesigned) are only worth considering for being picked, constantly shifting ideas about what a role should or shouldn't be and how a game should or shouldn't play out. All of those things are done primarily to cause people to have to relearn the game, keeping them on the hamster wheel, or to get them to buy their newly released OP champ before they nerf it next patch.
TL;DR: It's not MOBAs themselves but the companies and how fucking serious everyone takes a warcraft mod.
>>334287663
you are describing league of legends though, not Dota 2
>>334283129
Unoriginal / stale meta. It's still RTS game at its core. Nothing but resource management and power creep / snowballing.
Not pick-up-and-play / tryhard. Forced into a time frame and punished for leaving.
Team-constricted. If even one player is having an issue you're most likely going to lose (or win if it's the other team). You can't have a backup player to come in and save the day during the match.
Luck/Manipulation-based. Can only play during high-time of the day? Good luck ranking higher than players who cheese the playerbase by only playing during low or off-times of the day.
Hard counters should not exist at a pre-game level in a game attempting to be competitive. You shouldn't lose because you picked something before the game started, that just creates a violent hypocritical community.
People who love ASSFAGGOTS but hate RTS are cancer to video games in general. "fad gamers". They'll worship candy crush if there was a competitive gaming scene around it.
>>334283129
>What is so fundamentally wrong about MOBA games?
Because they don't properly teach players how to play the game, meaning the game will be filled to the brim with people that can't even play the game at a basic level and have a splintered collection of knowledge they picked up through trial and error.
This means that pretty much every single match will be unpleasant or unsatisfying and you will spend hundreds if not thousands of hours not even having fun, trying to convince yourself that it will all get better and "fun" once you get good.
>>334287925
>typical assfaggots apologist
>>334288025
it has nothing to do with whether or not I play the genre, the fact is, he is describing League of Legends as all MOBAs
the practices he describes are what Riot does, not all companies
No matter what you do, there's always 4 other people on your team that you need to babysit.
>>334287964
There are people who want to play.
And there are people who want to win.
If you're the later, you shouldn't care how to play the game. You're a parrot. You want crackers. So do what you're told and you'll get a cracker. How well you get that cracker is irrelevant. You didn't earn that cracker better than the parrot before you or after.
ASSFAGGOTS like LoL or Dota2 do not allow "play". They are designed to create violence anti-cooperative communities to fuel the competitive nature of the games. Can't speak for SMITE but I'd assume the same to be safe.
>>334288152
>apologist intensifies
>>334288273
>a team game where teamwork is the hearth of the game and is heavily rewarded
>hurrr i can't play solo all game, this game is shite guys
well for starters you need like 1000 hours before you even sort of understand how the games work
and i don't trust /v/irgins, in all their shitposting and game-collecting but never game-playing glory, to have that background
>>334285510
that was already disproven hundreds of times
if you just give some random person 500 mmr, they will stay in there for a while, then slowly climb down to their real mmr
it may be simple but the truth is, git gud kid
>>334288540
played mobas since i started with the original dota in 2007, eat a dick faggot
>>334288390
The games are designed that even if you try to have fun you won't. Matches are too long and can be too punishing, bringing any match down.
In Dota 2 you'd generally be looking at 40-50min (including search time, hero picking, etc) of your life in a single match gone, win or lose. That is a LONG time, especially if your team is getting shat on.
>>334283129
Only fun if you take the time to get good but don't actually care about the game/don't take shit seriously. Unfortunately these games are filled with angry children who think you are the problem.
>>334283129
The movement.
I loved original DotA, played it all time. But DotA was bound to wacraft 3's frankly shitty controls.
So Valve released DotA 2 with the same janky-ass movement.
And league does the same thing.
A MoBA should have you turning on a dime, but these asshat devs can't move past warcraft 3.
Also, stealing Warcraft 3 heroes and claiming you're original, looking at you League. At least DotA owned up to it.
>>334288530
oh, you play with a 5 man premade every time? Lucky guy, unfortunately for the majority of people that's not possible.
>>334288692
post dotabuff you scumsucking shit heap
gonna lol if you're one of those pinoys with a decade in this game and still 3k
if you're about to pretend you're still on dota 1 i'm gonna laugh you off the internet
It's the people. Everyone thinks they're the new hotness because they watched a stream of high ranked players. They emulate said players and wonder why they lost.....but not for long it's easy to just blame someone else.
The game can be fun enough, and I certainly loved playing mumu, singed alistar and blitzcrank...but it's frustrating playing solo or duo. The constant stream of 'mid, ADC" and then that one game where you pick support and so does two other people.
Eh. It's just a frustrating game is all.
>>334288797
>you play with a 5 man premade every time
i don't. that's why i don't complain.
you want to win. well you have to help your teammates even if they are dickheads.
i bet you never play support either. you whiny biatch
>>334288482
He is right though
>>334288797
Even premades will result in frustration.
The amount of people playing in perfect 5 man premades is so low it's not even worth mentioning.
>>334288774
>And league does the same thing.
>A MoBA should have you turning on a dime
Hey, retard, one of the BIGGEST DIFFERENCES of League is that you turn on a dime. EVERYONE KNOWS THIS.
God fucking dammit /v/ stop trying to discuss shit you blatantly haven't played. It might work with 10-hour AAA games but not with this.
>>334288797
>you dont learn drafting and strategies
>you dont tryhard in voicechat and get at least 3/4 to attempt to coordinate
>you dont have 9/10 enjoyable games, win or lose
It's like crack but you don't feel good.
>>334288827
I stopped playing dota for lol in 2010, haven't played much dota 2. Was diamond 2 last season.
>>334289038
post opgg then, faggot
quit dodging
>>334288920
i have fun trying to wrangle my sub 1k hour friends into some form of coherent strategy. I've learned a lot about patience and teamwork in doing so as i can't really call them faggots.
>>334288925
>God fucking dammit /v/ stop trying to discuss shit you blatantly haven't played.
but then the board really will be 100% whining about feminism
>>334288152
Riot, Hi Rez, and the companies of those other two dead games are guilty of everything I described. Valve is guilty of everything but the bimonthly champ point. This isn't a "my shitty game is less shitty than your shitty game" thread so please go away.
>>334289092
http://www.lolking.net/summoner/oce/589194
Haven't been playing much recently though
>>334289251
>http://www.lolking.net/summoner/oce/589194
>ranked 4k on a 10k population server
w3w lad
>>334289397
i've played 16 games this season lad, c'mon
I had a girlfriend that played League once. I watched her personality morph into that of a standard cancerous League player, then she fucked one of her League friends.
>>334290151
cuck
I'll say the greatest flaw of Dota-like games is that it is best enjoyed when playing with a group of friends. It is not a game meant to be played alone with 4 other strangers.
Afterall, Dota first start as a custom game where you're more likely to play with some friends against others.
>>334283129
It's not fun.
Why git gud when the game isn't fun?
When I sucked at dark souls, counter strike, risk of rain, chivalry, total war, andHL2 deathmatchI still played them, because the games were fun even though I was shit. And as I got better the games became even more fun.
League? I spent hours with my friends over Skype playing until I got to like level 27 before I quit. The game sucks and it isn't fun, even with friends.
>>334283129
/v/ is just assblasted that ASSFAGGOTS became popular and RTSs died.
>>334283129
There isn't enough demand to justify us spending resources on a standalone DotA. It's just a niche custom map.
t. Blizzard, 2005
>>334288774
This is bait yeah?
Turning on a dime in dota is dependant on your movespeed, which is a big mechanic early on considering there are heroes who require you to not turn on a fucking dime.
>>334288774
>A MoBA should have you turning on a dime
>melee heroes become useless
nice job morello
games last too fucking long. i don't want to spend 45+ minutes on a single fucking game
>>334283129
You can do your abosolute best but if your team is retarded you will lose no matter what.
And since wins are all that matter its pointless to play.
>>334288980
>you don't learn drafting and strategies
>you don't joke around in voicechat with the people you're playing with as if you are real life friends
>you don't have 10/10 enjoyable games, win or lose
>>334292178
Pretty much this- the only way melee heroes become viable in LoL is if their skills are legit cancer or if they can somehow outsustain or hardline initiate onto ranged opponents. DotA at least figured out how to make a game in which your top farming hero could be melee without actually requiring constant life support from no-farm assfaggots.
>>334288614
This, I used to think I was good and that the matchmaking was holding me back. Now im diamond and realize i was a retard.
>>334293327
Also despite people saying that dota has more snowballing, I feel comebacks are actually harder or almost impossible in League due to how small the map is. In dota you can at least in theory have your carry farming in relative safety while your team tries to buy some time whereas in League that just doesn't seem to be possible since the enemy can have almost complete vision of your jungle and get in there quickly when the map in so small.
Man, Heroes of Newerth is legitimately the best of those still.
I wonder how a bunch of devs like S2 games pulled off such a fantastic game with characters, engine and mechanics.
And they wnet and made the turd of Strife
HOW OR WHY
>>334283129
they are essentially RTS games where you only control one unit.
I don't know how is Dota 2 right now but League is in cancerous state right now with fucking tanky assasins and new mage update that will actually screw mages over even more.
>>334294205
Not to mention every new champ having some invulnerability ult
>>334293650
Its because in LoL the heroes basicly have the same tool kit. When you fall behind its harder to catch back up because your fighting against a stronger version of yourself and you are really more limited in options in which to come back.
Items are just padding your stats which makes the game more snowball oriented.
While in dota even if you have some similar abilties each hero has a niche that they excel in; for example if your team lacks team fight you can split push and look for pick offs when they split up to stop it.
Items arent just stat increases as most items have utility so in average your 2-4 button hero can go up to 2-10 buttons; not to mention that abilities have a lot more impact.
The items alone give you a lot more options. Smoke of deceit is one of the most underutilized item in the game for pubs. Even the support items have massive impact. Force staff, glimmer cape, meks can easily turn the tide of a battle if used correctly.
Individual play can only go so far, the overall strategy is what wins you games.
>>334283129
devs listening to their fans
>>334288614
>>334293450
>struggle trying to git gud
>think i need to try new things or rethink the way i play and get out of my comfort zone
>afraid that experimentation would fuck me up even worse and crash my ranking and confidence
wat do
>>334287403
Ive played with Sumails brother once, forgot his name played on a crap NA team
He started to feed as soon as he realized he didnt pick ranked match, we forced the game out to 45 mins to punish him
>>334283129
They're too hard. Casuals can't into fast pace.
Imagine if Unreal Tournament launched today. Imagine the outrage at the pacing and weapon choices.
Today's gamers are either millenials or has-beens. The has-beens are bitter because our reflexes are shit, our joints rusty, and our memories possibly a little polished.
The millenials are all console faggots and iPad touch-screen-"gamers".
MOBA is easily accessible, hard to master. Both things that casuals detest, for the same reason.
>>334283129
never played one personally, once I found out that a lot of your time is spent killing NPC enemies that walk in a straight line down a hallway I swore them off
I got reported by my team for winning a game.
>>334293812
https://youtu.be/-RpzEQMe4DE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH82pttAtvc
https://youtu.be/SwlUuIXVc9c?t=40
>>334296871
play unranked, if you dont know how heroes works learn that first.
pick a few heroes that you really like playing and try learning all the nuances of them
the biggest holdback for most players i find is that they dont pay attention to the minimap.
Pay attentention to it, you can easily see how ppl move around the map and avoid getting ganked / setting up ganks
win or lose pay attention to how games play out; hell if you really wanna git gud watch your own replays to see what you can improve. the most important part is learning from every game you play
nothing
>>334288540
Eh.. 1000 hours?
More like 100. Max.
>>334293812
Revenant best hero
I played him constantly with a friend going devo and we'd just destroy most every lane and then gank everywhere always
>>334297519
Revenant was fucking busted.
nigger did so much damage
have you tried the Revenant + Defiler lane btw?
>rev makes you both invis
>ghost fucking everywhere
>attack the enemy and shred armor so ghost do even MOAR damage
such a filthy fun combo
>>334283129
They're designed to be played with 4 people, in the same room or at least on voice chat with you.
Every aspect of the game is designed around this model. Literally every aspect.
However, the state in which 99% of matches are actually played is about as far as you can possibly get from that - 4 random people who you have never met, have never met each other, don't necessarily have voice chat and might not speak your language.
They're good games. The problem is that literally nobody plays the game as it was meant to be played.
It's like if everyone who played Counterstrike used their feet to control the mouse+keyboard. It would still be a good game, and maybe the best players would still rise to the top, but it would have a lot of fucking problems.
>>334283129
Walled by learning curve with little to no reward for playing it as you learn it. The core gameplay is simple enough, but unless you know about all the characters and their skills and their matchups and items and whatever else there is to know, while also keeping up with the changes, you just can't really enjoy the game. For most games it'd be a case of "play by yourself and don't go online until you know the game", but this is a purely online game so there's really no other way of doing it. Playing one of these games is it's own hobby by itself, and frankly it's not a very rewarding one.
No one plays these games for fun. You go online and no one is having fun. All these kids are angry and shitting on each other for random reasons. The only way to have fun is to just do random shit and see how everyone goes autistic because you picked Derpina into a role the meta gospel says you shouldn't play.
If you can manage to grab some friends and queue and just dick around you can probably get some decent fun out of it, but at that point it's really just you dicking around with your friend, the game itself isn't providing the entertainment.
>>334296871
I literally got good by feeding. fucking try to see how far you can push your champion. Try that risky outplay. Don't run away at 30% hp, or if you do dont go back just hide, you might come in handy if the teamfight is still going on.
As for comfort zones I can only play le ebin 1 shot assassins and adc. Just find something you like and get good at it.
>>334297810
No we didn't try that one but like every lane we tried was just really strong, Reve harrass aone won us many of them. Bait out bad position from enemy, Q to slow into like 6 auto attacks, lots of life gone.
Devo was particularly nasty because invis in lane usually means a kill and then we'd just run with it and either kill them whenever they returned to lane, or make them so scared that they stayed out of exp range.
The can't be that bad when Sheever exists.
>>334283129
That you don't like them
Literally every other problem people typically express can either be solved by having friends, muting people, or gitting gud
>>334285510
>entire purpose of matchmaking is to normalize your placement with your skill so you statistically win 50% of your matches
>HURR FORCED 50%
Encourages shitty mentality due to the fact that the blame for absolutely anything can be placed on anything but yourself, so people don't improve and just bitch.
Team games in general actually tend to be pretty fucked in that aspect, but MOBAs in particular suffer the most from it. Possibly due to the fact that the barrier of entry is so low that many are very content with just staying there and deluding themselves that they're better than that.
>>334283129
too long
too many rules and items to remember
waste of time
so many better games to play
I suggest young anons to avoid them
>>334293929
here's your reply
>>334301565
>waste of time
That's literally what all games are
>>334301431
Shitters can't accept that the game wont validate them and claim it actively prevents them from reaching their 4k/5k/8k real MMR.
Some of them even waste money on buying accounts with high rating and then just quickly drop down again because they are the only constant in all their games.
>>334301732
This
In a proper matchamking system, your winrate should only be slightly above 50% as you're climbing and once you hit your sweet spot it will normalize closer and closer to 50%. Nothing's "forced," that's just the basic nature of ranked matchmaking.
God, people are retarded
>>334283129
People can blame their team rather than blaming themselves. That's why people can't git gud
>>334302153
how much your winrate is above 50% would depend on how far away from your true mmr you are. If you are far you should have a very high winrate that closes in on 50% as you get closer to your actual skill.
Not just slightly above 50% no matter what
>character that can jump forward/skip forward/teleport
Why the fuck are there so many characters that do this in LoL? Its such a shitty mechanic,its essentially a get out of jail card after you fuck up your positioning because you dont know what you were doing. I sometimes tune in to big tournaments and everytime 6-8/10 characters picked has dome variant teleport abillity
>>334302774
Because spectators like them.
>>334302774
because lol is a shit game balanced to encourage shitters to buy a rotating set of op champs, and ran out of innovation 50 champions ago
>>334302774
Not really any shittier than so many heroes in DotA having massive speed increases
>>334283129
'Don't like what I dislike', the tread
>>334302750
I'm 4.6k mmr at 54,7% wr in around 1K games played in ranked mm, AM I 6 K?
>>334304294
not many do though, a shit ton fewer than LoL champions with dashs/jumps etc
>>334305329
>>334305329
>>334304521
I miss bananamancer
Inaccurate MMR system.
>>334306930
Oh please tell me more
>>334288614
>hundreds of times
No, it's been proven several times only by guys who were already 5-6k.
Solo MMR is highly inaccurate.
>>334307009
What would you like to know, friend?
Should I talk about how it's impossible for a simple win/loss system to judge the skill of an individual when DotA has more than 2 factors in it that count towards victory?
Team MMR is accurate though, as long as the same 5 players play all the time. I'll give you that.
>>334283129
LoL made them too popular too fast, kids that didn't board the hype train in time are mad as fuck
It's a team game that doesn't reward individual skill.
Even Splatoon has a somewhat decent singleplayer and the matches are so short that getting a shit team means you can leave quickly.
In MOBAs the matches are so long that if you get a shit team you're stuck with them anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour
>>334307750
>that doesn't reward individual skill.
git gud
>>334305329
Theres more in lol because melee heroes need gap closers just to function.
>>334309267
I don't have words for the stupidity of this post every damn time I see it.
>>334307750
Heroes of the Storm fixes literally every complaint you just made.
>>334310368
It's bait
>>334309267
>omni
>arthas and not ulther
they're boring as shit and needlessly convoluted to make faggots feel "leet" when all it comes down to is autismal knowledge of meta-game bullshit
what kind of faggot developer makes a game where the winner is decided in the first 5 minutes, but the match lasts 60 while the winning team simply gets more and more edge over the losing time? That's just insulting. It's wasting your players time on both sides. Fuck you, if a match is decided in 5 minutes then the match should only last 5 minutes
>>334310390
Haven't played it, maybe I will at some point.
How does it fix them?
>>334283129
They are extremely team dependent, meaning that individual skill matters much less than in other genres, and the mechanics that are in place ensure that a single player can pretty much never overcome the odds if the rest of the team suck literal ass.
"It's a team game!" isn't really a valid counter-argument to the problem because team games exist where a good player can win on his own when push comes to shove, like CS for example.
>>334310390
What? HotS, more than any other moba, requires massive amounts of teamwork. Individual skill isn't that important.
You certainly can't leave a game without getting punished.
Only thing it "fixes" is the match time, and even then it can go 25+ minutes if you have a close game.
>>334310538
It really doesn't, see above.
>>334310390
>No depth
>no communication
>nothing that ruins an enemies day so hard they alt-f4.
>>334310723
Why do people keep demanding shorter games? Is it just because muh rep grind efficiency?
>>334300780
Guys why is Sheever so fucking perfect??
>>334310921
Because if you get stuck with a shit team you have to sit there and play a game that isn't fun or face penalty for leaving early
>>334310921
Because it's fucking demoralizing losing a game that you've invested 40 minutes to an hour playing for some people. For me it can be, but I don't mind the longer games.
>>334310723
>You certainly can't leave a game without getting punished.
you can't even fucking ff in that game
>>334310678
CS is a shit game tho, even compared to 17 year old games like quake 3
>slow ass movement
>boring "realistic" hitreg weapons
>>334309267
>>334311128
Just leave and sign in with an alt
>>334311242
That may be, but it's still a team game at its core and allows individual skill to trump numbers when necessary.
CounterStrike had BOOM HEADSHOTS
the other shooters had BOOM QUAD-POWERED ROCKETLAUNCHER, but that's just not as satisfying as BOOM HEADSHOT
>>334311374
and then you get punished for it
>>334311242
>Not moving the landspeed record
>Realistic weapons
Just because it isn't quake/doom doesn't mean it's shit. It's a more methodical and careful game if you play it seriously
>>334311374
>You should fix the problems with the game instead of the developers doing it
![[ELF INTENSIFIES].gif](https://i.imgur.com/UOvJ8wL.gif "[ELF INTENSIFIES].gif")
>>334311256
>That disparity between preview and in-game Arthas
>>334283129
The concept isnt bad, whats bad are the companies who shit on every genre they find.
>>334311439
3 games in low prio? Just grab a pub stomp hero, make the enemy team cry and quit and be done. And you can do that whenever while you can just play on an alt with friends.
>>334311512
the fact that slow kinda-realistic games became the norm for FPS saddens me
>>334311408
ofc there is some teamplay involved but just as much as any other FPS where you happen to be in a team for one reason on another
you could argue even BF2 has better teamplay since you can actually interact with teammates to heal them as a medic instead of just being "another guy with a gun" standard teammate
They're literally not fun and not about having fun, they're about winning and gitting gud.
The reason I love DotA 2 Custom games and don't play the actual game anymore is because they're just about having stupid fun.
Nothing. They're based on teamwork in order to win, and you know how good the majority of /v/ is at talking with people that aren't on an anonymous chinese cartoon website.
>>334312017
I agree, but that doesn't mean that every game that does it is bad.
The original Rainbow Six is a good example
marry, fuck, killYOU'RE A KEK IF YOU DONT MARRY CM
>>334312265
Can't I just kill them all?
>>334312265
As a gay man, I'd fuck 4th from the left because she looks like she'd be good with a strap on
we need more moba characters that play like pic related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FD5ug5jD-q4
>>334283129
They break you.
>lose a game -25
>win a game +25
>get a CLQ wannabe/bought account/asshole who wants a 4 protect 1 = lose
>cant overcome a carry that uses time when the enemy is dead to go to secret shop instead of picking objectives
>cant overcome team who picks 4 greedy and expects time for everyone to farm
MOBAs are flawd in a sense where ranked play should have an entirely new queu system where you draft players rather than risk your mmr hoping you get objective minded players. Mechanical skill in dota is very low, its the map control game that people cant get good at.
>>334312265
Fuck - Lina
Marry - CM
Kill - Luna
>>334312030
>They're literally not fun and not about having fun, they're about winning and gitting gud.
Me playing dagon eblade riki in unranked all pick and not giving a shit whether I win or lose begs to differ
I highly recommend having fun anon, it's pretty fun
>>334312481
Fuck low priority. My internet fucks up one time and everything goes to shit. On the bright side I get broodmother alot in single draft and I'm getting good practice with her.
