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Why are MMOs dead ?
>play a 15 year old game that died 8 years ago
>wah why are MMOs dead!?
Because Ragnarok Online isn't fun to play anymore?
>>333857767
Most of them are F2P shitshows or WoW clones. Korean imports cater to a different audience so they don't appeal to Western markets. Not to mention the shitty MMO community that's never fucking satisfied.
>"Add raids and shit, it's not enough like WoW!"
>dev shoehorns in typical WoW bullshit
>"lol wut a wow clone u guys suk wtf u guys dont know shit i ran all this shit in 1 day wtf no content"
>>333857767
MMOs went from open ended, comminuty focused games to single player, PvE story focused games. Where the only community aspect was being forced to join a group for end game raids.
As much as some people hate Tree of Savior for not being a clone of RO, its still leagues better than any of the WoW clones.
>>333857767
What is EVE online?
>>333857767
>devs are working more on graphics than mechanics
>F2P
>grindfests
>cashshops
>shit quests
>no decent sandbox
I can risk the opinion that if somebody made 2D game with decent mechanics and real world-changing actions it would become really popular.
>>333858370
>>333858498
Why didn't gravity manage to make a decent ragnarok 2 ?
No sense of community, people treat mmos like a single player game, player base have shifted to being entitled little dicks, companies are increasingly become more jewer, people caring only about the destination and not the journey, mmos have no good storylines, $15 a month is too expensive.
When ESO is one of the best MMOs you know it's bad.
>>333857767
Yes. There was a slight chance at revival but every opportunity has been squandered. What was still good a year ago is now garbage. Only Eve is even worth playing AND an MMO nowadays.
Devs and Shiteaters think Grind = Content
Grind is not content
Grind leads to whatever content there is being reduced to numbers in a spreadsheet for optimized grinding.
>>333857767
>BR
Because of you, basically.
>>333857767
because WoW players are degenerate video game hating scum so now we cant have nice things. blame the 'every-mmo-is-a-WoW-clone' faggots
>>333859795
Because the original RO team didn't make RO2. Tree of Savior is the game done by the team who made the original RO. And given enough time, TOS will be even better. Its already better than RO in combat and graphics. It just needs more open ended exploration and EXP tweaking.
Bad AI
Bad quests
Overly reliant on community while cutting corners on the core mechanics and systems
>>333860636
is TOS out yet ?
The music for that dungeon is playing in my head now.
Because wow is the only game that hit movement right. Everything else feels unresponsive.
But wow's engine is so old that it feels bad to play other than the movement.
>>333860854
In Korea and America, yeah.
>>333857767
you have to a grind between new portion of things you can do.
>need level X to do something
>need gear to do something
>need few fights to do something
>need learn pvp to pvp
>need do X to do something Y
people need instant reward or rewarding only from playing good.
>>333861052
>tfw yuropeasant
>>333859528
you mean excel simultator?
its more fun to read about the current lore and battles of eve then it is to actually play it. can't think of a game that has a shitter gameplay system.
>>333861201
I used to hate MMOs because of grinding. But the current MMOs, like Old Republic or FFXIV, shows what happens when you take grinding out. The game is so streamlined, you can just play it without even trying. Or thinking. And the game actually punishes you for trying to fight enemies outside of quests.
Among hundreds of other things, MMOs need to get rid of quest based EXP. Its stupid that doing one little fetch quests gives you 1000x more EXP than killing enemies. Might as well just remove combat entirely and just reward people for talking to NPCs.
>>333859223
this
MMOs exist primarly as a way to socialize with other people. If you neglect that aspect or rip it out of the game to make a better singleplayer experience people will wonder what they are paying money or grinding for
>>333860053
You shut your faggot mouth.
>>333861373
>excel simulator
>i've never played eve: the criticism
90% of the shit to do in the game has nothing to do with spreadsheets. Go to null sec and fuck around with a corp.
>>333861373
Good one dude bro you showed me! That's the only criticism of someone who hasn't played it before
>>333857767
>tfw remember grinding and farming that dungeon for exp and emporiums for months
they attract people who expect games to be fun, compelling and hold their interest for 100+ hours, and those type of people aren't generally discriminate when it comes to what they're doing and so many of them especially enjoy it when a system is tedious, grindy, or pointless
Old MMOs:
"I'm gonna go on an adventure! Find my own way to play. Leveling its slow as fuck, but I got people to talk to."
Current MMOs:
"I finished all the story content in a week and quit the game."
I've made a lot of real life friends thanks to ragnarok.
Also the amounts of people getting a gf in that game was surreal. there was so many girls playing that game, cute emotes and cute sprites attract them.
>>333863525
>in a week
True modern MMOs let you finish the content in a couple of days, it's pathetic.
Because Blizzard wills it.
They're only dead because WoW had 12 millions subs at one point and now everybody puts them at that standard and looking for one with the most people instead of just playing the one you like and participating with the smaller community in that game.
I mean for real, when you played your first MMO were you that concerned with how popular it was or how many people were playing it? Or did you play it because you enjoyed it?
>>333863584
This is primarily the appeal of FFXIV. It's a WoW clone but aesthetically cute, to a point.
WoW's main issue is that it was ugly as shit. You couldn't be anything besides ugly as shit. Blizzard games have really good art, but they cannot make something cute to save their lives.At least until they made Overwatch
>>333861478
I remember playing one MMO where they actually included in the game autofarming where you could tell what you wanted to fight and how often you wanted to use potions and your character would automatically run there and fight stuff for you while you afk'd. It was awful.
>>333861272
you can also buy tos in europe, the fuck? european server even
official f2p start is 24th or 26th april i think but you can already play by paying 9,99
dawn of midgard is active server
>>333864113
28th, I just looked it up onsteam
>>333864232
Is it F2P in USA yet?
>>333863950
You have a point. But many of these companies are making new MMOs at 10x the cost of WoW, but generating 10x less players. So really, games like Old Republic, WildStar, FFXIV and Elder Scrolls are failing hard.
Developers should be making lower cost MMOs to match the amount of players. But the market expects MMOs to be bloated, cinematic games. So there's really no way to win.
>>333861478
Quests were a breath of fresh air when they appearead, it gave some sense to the world beyond murdering ramdom monsters for exp all day long.
>>333860910
I want to go back. ;_;
did a complete fucking retarded idiot cunt design ToS? how did anyone ever think the class ranks and no resets was good? are you fucking serious?
>>333857767
>le mmos are dead
meanwhile in ffxiv servers are still full as ever and getting bigger as wow refugees come here
>>333864050
jade dinasty?
>>333864316
But they used to be a rare thing. Making the entire game just 2,000 chain quests takes a nice idea and makes it just as boring as fighting monsters. If not worse.
Blizzard made the best casual MMO with some hardcore elements.
Also MMOS depend on population sizes for both player experience and company profitability. Since WOW filled that niche so well, everyone else is basically trying to take players away from that chunk and few people have enough time to play 2 MMOs and walk away from heavily invested characters.
Specialist niche MMOs can do well, but too many companies think they could replicate Blizzard's unprecedented success.
>>333864316
The wakfu quest system is probably the best, really. Interesting, lore revealing questlines which span only a few tasks, and include combat, story and puzzles, and many quests being hidden in secret locations.
Although something simpler, like the pre-quests system of wakfu (list of achievements which yield various items as rewards, many of which being worded as riddles, which very strongly encourages exploration and ingame communication) is probably a good middle-ground between mindless mob grinding and a full-fledged quest system.
>>333864434
>FFXIV
>full servers
They just lower the cap on servers. At launch, the servers were so swamped, they would crash constantly. These days, the servers are so empty, you never have the same problems. And SE just limits the amount of characters that can be made.
>>333864929
>the servers are so empty
nigga do you EVEN play on leviathan or gilgamesh
>>333860636
ToS sucks dick, though.
>Hellish grinds
>Everything except a few cookiecutter builds are so underpowered they can't do most content
>You have to either pay $18 American or grind up "equivalent" currency to buy a pass to trade 30 times, which includes from your Team Stash, auction house, and regular trading
>Most items can only be "traded" 3 times, including pulled from Stashes
>You have to pay (real or in-game currency) to even have personal stash space
>End-game is (as with almost all MMOs,) mediocre
ToS is just a generic Korean cash grab with a Ragnarok skin.
>>333860636
tos is shit and has nothing to do with roor so i've heard
Alright guys, now that we know ToS isn't the savior we were waiting for, what is the next mmo to dump all our hype into just to get disappointed?
>>333865329
Legion.
>>333865329
Spiral Knights comeback
>>333865329
Pantheon.
>>333865329
Guild Wars 3
>>333860205
Don't forget the fags on the other end of the spectrum that think open worlds are content.
Open worlds aren't content, they're containers allowing more interesting situations during content. Too bad most devs don't get this and create an MMO with less content than minecraft.
>>333864232
Oh thanks for the info lad. I'll wait for the ftp probably.
>>333864761
I get what you mean, just pointing out that simply removing quests won't do.
>>333864816
I had some fun with wakfu but after a certain level it seems that the quests alone won't give enough XP to level up and to tell the truth, I don't have the patience for turn based grinding, so I decided to quit, still a great game though.
>>333865021
I play on both Excalibur and Chocobo. Everyone is sitting in town waiting for raids of crafting. And even in the marketplace, there's 10x less people then there was at launch. Where the market was so crowded, you couldn't even see the marketboard or NPCs.
>>333865329
Private servers desu
>>333865329
Hmm. Camelot Unchained? Crowfall or whatever it was called? Those two have a lot of Kickstarters' dreams laying on 'em, already ripe for the crushing.
>>333865329
So what is wrong with it?
>>333865329
Im banking on a good pserver for ToS or Legion (at least to hold me over).
>>333865329
Pantheon
Crowfall
Camelot Unchained
Gloria Victis
Chronicles of Elyria
Worlds Adrift (might be cool)
Those are the ones I'm following.
>>333864434
>× Lamia
Server has jack shit in it
>>333857767
Topped with WoW, but then Blizzard killed it and nothing really compares nowadays. People moved on with the realization that MMO's are dead.
>>333865706
>I get what you mean, just pointing out that simply removing quests won't do.
Of course not. Ideally, an MMO should have a quest storyline, open world mob fighting and about a dozen other systems. And that's the main problem with making an MMO. It actually needs to focus on so many different things, it will take 10 years to finish the game.
Most developers just spend 2 years making the quests and combat engine, then release the game. And spend the next 8 years adding the content they didn't have time for. So every MMO is incomplete and lackluster.
But the other option is a game like Star Citizen. Which won't come out until we have real life spaceships to fly around in.
Personally, I'm waiting on a new vanilla private server to gain momentum. Not Kronos, because fuck them. Maybe Rebirth.
Also, City of Heroes, City of Titans.
>>333865329
Lost Ark, I don't even know of anything else coming out.
Mabinogi 2 NEVEREVER ;_;
I remember at some point they made Opal's a common drop in Payon Dungeon. Or some kind of gem/ore. It sold for 500,000-1,000,000z before the change.
I made so much fucking zenny before people found out.
>>333865329
I put all my hope into Dragon Quest X. And from everything I see, it deserves the hype. But since it will never leave Japan, I never end up playing an MMO.
>>333857767
Nobody is trying anything original.
Most are just cash grabs by lazy developers trying to recuperate their costs with box gross and then maintain a skeleton shit tier product for nothing but profit afterward.
They're worse than mobile games.
I haven't really played a MMO in like 3-4 years
>Same crafting systems
>Same skill/leveling systems
>Theme park/Race to endgame
>No point in armor/weapon crafting pre-endgame since you can just do a dungeon every other series of level for superior equipment.
>PvP/combat boring same
>F2P/cash shop bullshit
I'm not saying most recent MMOs are bad, but to me they are just re-skinned shit. Most feel/play the same and I don't feel like putting my time or money into them.
>>333865926
>>333865763
I'm actually really hyped for Camelot Unchained.
>>333864283
They focus too much on marketing and leading people to believe that MMO's have evolved past tab targeting combat and fetch quests.
MMO's are hard to make, it's a science of balancing rewarding skinner box elements and socialization but everybody seems to neglect both things and just try and ape WoW from just looking at the surface.
The root of the problem is gamers just aren't that social anymore. People in general are too paranoid and distrusting of each other due to the years of negative experiences with anonymity that have created a stigma. That innocence during the wild west of the internet is gone, people just don't want to be forced to socialize anymore.
ASSFAGGOTS for example are a heavily teamwork oriented game, but how many people actually communicate in solo queue and don't just expect people to know what they are doing?
Anyone want to casually play Everquest 1999?
I always get so nostalgic for oldschool EQ.
I wish there was a Legacy EQ 2 server as well.
>>333866118
They and VO is taking their sweet time to get ready. For the meantime. I would just play Champions Online.
>>333857767
Why mmo's are dead? Because devs try give ALL players what they want. And when they fail, people are upset. WoW is still one of the best mmo out there. I should know because i have played almost all that have come out in west.
Not even defending wow. We need something new, wow is old. But we are not getting anything new because mmo is most expensive type of game to design, code and upkeep.
>>333865706
You probably only played wakfu recently, it used to be that there were no quests, then the quests were few and far between. The idea is to grind, make friends, talk, discover secrets, including group-activated secrets, and every few levels, complete a questline for a cool 3-5 levels boost. This wasn't an uncommon setup back in the days, but wakfu pulled it off really well with hidden quests, puzzles, quizzes, button/player counts/treasure maps, enemy gimmicks (although those gimmicks are ill designed, and more painful than fun half the time), etc.
Nowadays, though, wakfu has turned to complete shit, everything that made it good has been gutted. A good example of why MMOs have died is how havenworlds were added to the game: they're zones where guilds can have buildings, including dungeon entrances, as well as plant any mob or plant they want. Because of this, nobody was ever seen outside their guild's havenworld ever again. Instead of encouraging interaction between players, the devs added a convenience feature that outright prevented interaction.
ESO is the best I can think of right now and its on a sinking ship.
>>333859528
Not all enjoy space-excel.
>>333866308
>I'm not saying most recent MMOs are bad
You should
>they are just re-skinned shit. Most feel/play the same and I don't feel like putting my time or money into them.
Yup. Real MMOs are dead.
>>333866457
I agree with all you said. But while I hate League of Legends with a passion, its not hard to see why MOBAs are doing better than MMOs. Its basically the concept of doing random raids in an MMO, but without the hundreds of hours of leveling and PvE. Each game is 30-60 minutes long. And if you fuck up in one game, people cuss you out and you start over with a new game.
Of course, for the rest of us who don't like raiding, we have no option. I think MMO developers should make MMOs that don't focus on gear grinding and raiding. Just leave that to MOBAs. Instead, focus on everything else an MMO should have. Free roaming exploration, communication, PvP combat, building houses/shops, used generated quests, etc.
>>333866667
It's extremely hard to try and make a new standard in MMOs and if you try to do that, either you're getting a Monster Hunter-like that is only successful in small countries or a regular generic MMO like the ones you all fall for and stop playing in a day.
>>333867262
Funny how you mention Monster hunter. I played the shit of Phantasy Star online but monster hunter in my eye is shit.
Same with WoW and Rift. Played shit out of first and only tested the latter.
Despite that they are similar in many ways.
Two reasons:
>WoW has hardwired people into thinking the MMO needs to be "level up a lot->endgame", so people end up not really give a shit about most of what a game has to offer
>the general audience doesn't feel like leveling for hours; MOBAs scratch the "level up and fight" itch
>>333867542
MH is what PSO should have been, unlike Rift.
>>333867025
Like I said, it's a science people haven't quite figured out yet.
GW2 attempted to experiment by removing the holy trinity and it just turned everything into a mindless zerg fest.
Competitive games are hot right now, and Blizzard is trying to work on tapping into that with the changes to PVP in Legion, but it's not nearly as quarantined as MOBAs are no matter what changes they make to the core gameplay.
Even HotS feels like WoW PVP done better.
It's kind of just a wait and see if developers can figure it out or not kind of thing. Right now either the technology or the market isn't right for a proper MMO or for experimentation.
>>333867828
GW2 didn't try to remove the holy trinity. If they did, they would have first looked at all the other MMOs which didn't have a holy trinity, or pretty much any pre-WoW MMO where support roles were a thing beyond muh healers. Instead, they just mashed everything together - that's the thing they tried. Don't be blinded by buzzwords and marketing rephrasings.
Lack of innovation. This "works" in other genres because all you have to do is get gullible goys to buy your product, not even play it, but in an MMO the quality of the game depends on number of concurrent players.
MMO devs/publishers have realized this, so they make all the content solo-able. Usually, this causes the process of grouping up with other players a roadblock towards muh max-XP/min, and the game more or less becomes a single player experience with the exception of raid content.
Sure, you can always manage to find some friends in the game, or join the game with some real life/online friends, but in [current year] people who are social like that can just use social media or even play the large number of multiplayer games that weren't around ten years ago. There's a significantly larger number of ways to interact with people online than there were when WoW, Runescape, Everquest, etc. were at their peak.
Once you find that the multi-player aspect, as MMOs currently use them, is little more than a gimmick, it's fair to compare them to other multi-player games or even single-player games. Like yeah an MMO could advertise great combat, but can it compare to, for example, MnB:Warband's combat? Oh sorry you want to chat with your friends while playing? Open up Facebook, or Steam, or whatever, and chat through there, it's basically the same thing. At least then you can pause the game.
This is on top of the number of baffling design decisions a lot of MMOs seem to make over and over again.
The genre has potential but it feels like most people are sticking to the old methods, which don't work in [current year] because of the overwhelming competition from other sources of online social interaction. There's a few titles that look promising and really take advantage of a large number of connected players (e.g. Camelot Unchained) but all else is just the same old shit.
>>333868346
I would argue that homogenizing the classes is removal of the holy trinity but I guess it's more complicated than that.
>>333857767
They've gone from being community orientated, sometimes challenging, and with an emphasis on the journey to a complete focus on endgame and instant gratification and little socialization required. That's how it feels to me with a lot of the recent MMO's I've played.
>>333867828
I think developers have figured it out. They just can't make a game that can please everyone. So they go for the quick cash grab (themepark PvE game) instead of trying to make an open ended coop/PvP game like older MMOs.
Trying to make a game that did both equally would be like trying to remake Red Dead Redemption. But with the world being 1000x bigger and thousands of people all playing at the same time.
>>333868627
It isn't quite the same, the trinity is still there but it is present in each class. Nevertheless, the point was that even if you decide to call it "removing the trinity", it's only a consequence of homogenization, not the main contribution, and in no way an innovation.
>>333868637
Sales are a big part of it too. Making a game that appeals to a specific group of people isn't what investors want, they want as many sales as possible.
Whether that specific group even likes or wants to play the game is a whole different issue.
MMO's are too reliant on keeping people playing that it's too much of a gamble to developers. Unsuccessful MMO's have destroyed studios alone.
I hope Camelot Unchained doesn't suck dick and has at least a decently sized community. Maybe around EVE levels.
Beta soon.
League ofLegends and Dota cannibalized the market
>>333868992
I'm hoping Pantheon actually turns out good, I've been wanting something to fill the void of Vanguard and others.
It feels like convenient match-making systems eroded the need for actual social interaction. That, and the removal of group content within the world. (ie: removal of elite areas)
>>333866457
>The root of the problem is gamers just aren't that social anymore. People in general are too paranoid and distrusting of each other due to the years of negative experiences with anonymity that have created a stigma. That innocence during the wild west of the internet is gone, people just don't want to be forced to socialize anymore.
Why did this happen?
Why the fuck does /v/ love RO so much? It was always shit. Take off your nostalgia goggles.
>>333869459
>>>/reddit/
>>333869240
Bitterness and poor sportsmanship spread through people like aids. Also scams and hacking caused a lot of mistrust.
As we learned what strangers were capable of, we began to become more cautious of who we associated with.
Kind of like how kids are more supervised and there are more restrictions as opposed to kids being able to run around carefree in previous generations.
>>333864050
Angels Online did this. It was a pretty decent MMO when it first came out, nice community.
It's pretty dead now iirc.
>>333857767
Because the only people that want to make good games because they love games don't have the kind of money needed to make and maintain a MMO.
Consumer base has changed. People aren't as interested as they used to be in heavy grinds and working towards something.
Developers have adjusted their games to have more dungeons and endgame but that ends up failing to capture new/younger players who find more fun messing around in the world.
The World of Warcraft is just so stale outside of dungeons.
>>333865329
Until MMOs and the people that play them go through a huge change then every mmo is probably going to be disappointing.
>>333869240
Depends on person to person. If I had to guess, systems like LFG caused people's social skills to deteriorate.
>>333869845
Pretty much. People want everything now. It's either that or they get bored and go do something else.
Outside of rapidly making new content every month which is unfeasible there's really nothing keeping people attached to any specific mmo unless it's unique or because of the playerbase.
Most MMOs are just generic, same bullshit with a different coat of paint and in most MMOs I've been in people rarely socialise.
>>333870093
It was far before the LFG system was implemented. I knew people who never did dungeons because they didn't like the negative feedback from other players. The LFG system was implemented for ease of doing the group content without needing to spam LFG in the trade chat and being able to find another player within the dungeon without needing someone to hearth back into town and find another person.
Dungeons kind of became more tedious than they were intended to be due to all the raging.
Because the best vanilla wow private server was just killed by Activision Blizzard
>>333869835
H&H guys did it.
They turned into jews, though.
>mfw RO officialy has races now.
The less "quality of life" features an MMO has, the better. Anything that removes the player's need to interact with others, skip traveling/searching/trading is a death blow to an MMO.
All modern MMOs adopted the console FPS style of multiplier. You only interact with others to kill, be killed, or in "lobbies". The overworld is just set pieces of the theme park for you to cruise through while updating your Facebook status. Like it or not, MMOs need to be designed around people "with no lives" or those who don't intend to play anything else for them to be remotely good. A lot of devs interpret as taking the grind up to eleven, instead of making your day to day interaction with the world and other players meaningful. Also, making a good MMO implies a more hands off approach from the dev/publisher, and making the players a bigger part of running the world. As you can imagine, publishers aren't big on the whole having less control over anything agenda.
"We want the furfag audience."
>>333857767
Because they are a buffet of micro transactions. they are also have no difficulty. and are boring as fuck.
>>333871264
Where are these images from anyway
At this point, I just want a game with maps like MMO's, that are massive and sprawling, but with good combat and only allows you to connect with up to like 10 friends or something.
>>333870883
What you don't understand is that you think you do, but you really don't.
>>333871430
Satan Morroc was a mistake
>>333871502
M$'s hacked-together 90's tier "AI". Captionbot somethingsomething.
>>333871264
>>333871430
RO has been long dead anyway, so who cares?
>>333871264
>>333871430
>>333857767
China.
It ruins everything it touches.
>>333857767
Comprehensive explanation by one of the most influental persons in the genre:
http://mud.co.uk/richard/The%20Decline%20of%20MMOs.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Bartle
>>333866452
It'll probably be disappointment just like most Kikestarter projects.
>>333858552
wow players only know their first mmo, which was shit. Their expectations and demands are broken.
>>333869240
Also want to add that socialization requires effort, and honestly going out of your comfort zone. Even in your box-standard MMORPG, the possibility of having a memorable experience driven by player-to-player interaction exists, the core problem is it requires players to open themselves to wasted effort
>that guy I just spent met and spent 3 hours with is actually a total raging douche
>people flame when I try and chat
Also, unrelated, but I seriously am fucking sick of my wife. Don't get married anon.
>>333872176
cancer
>>333865329
>ToS Private servers emerge
>no trading limitations
>no fucked up market
>no goldbotters because what's the point
>fuckton of costumes get added
>buy with dosh to support private server
I still don't get why ToS didn't just go full tf2 with costumes and hats.
>>333864316
I fucking hated questing when I played vanilla WoW. It was the first game where questing was the primary leveling experience and it managed to be so abysmally boring. It was just streamlining all manner of exploration around the map and being just as monotonous as grinding monsters only now you don't have to party and you have to run back to an exclamation mark just to get rewards.
>>333857767
Really wanna know?
The first gen MMO's and lets cut the fucking bullshit about how great they had been, sucked. Games like UO and EQ went about making it so it was too damn long to gain skills/levels, had balance issues that didn't get looked at and note I'm not just talking about pvp with that one. Add in that the true "end game" was finding a huge group and killing some huge mob so you could have a chance of rolling on something it dropped.
Later games didn't fix that, SWG was doomed the minute they decided to put a fucking Jedi Alpha class in. Everquest 2 did feel a tad rushed. And then we have WoW.
And WoW was simple put the most wonderful thing ever! Why? Blizzard cares about us players! Note that line is bullshit but Blizzard could do no wrong, while at the same time every other Dev and MMO did everything wrong.
Now we're in this sorry state of an MMO market and community. All anyone does is bitch and say "WoW does it better!" Anytime someone tries to do something new with an MMO? It sucks we need more raids/pvp!
Add in a player community who for the most part now go's game to game looking for that new WoW. That's never going to happen, but still they flock to new title after new title hyping it up along the way until it comes out. Then proclaim how shitty it is, but how that new MMO six months down the line? Oh that's the WoW killer.
>>333869845
>The World of Warcraft is just so stale outside of dungeons.
No truer statement has ever been said about WoW.
>>333872479
You're judging old mmos by rush to end-game and praise WoW? Opinion discarded.
A lot, if not most of my oldschool mmo experience was related to talking to people, making parties with strangers and exploring the world without knowing where we went and what to expect. Fast leveling, perfect balance and lots of AAA content were pretty much irrelevant.
Nowadays, everything needs to be competitive, and people would rather talk shit about each other instead of play the game together.
>>333872479
Old school MMO was more remembered for all sorts of shenanigans you could do with the world's rules. Particularly how you mess with other players
>>333865329
whats wrong with Tos?
>>333873415
It also have to do with the demographics change. Before it was about the journey and adventure, now its about getting rewards and gambling.
>>333869240
The majority of players in MMORPGs nowadays are in fact casuals. Neets and dweebs who were willing to grind away together liked the novelty of being able to interact and form groups with each other.
Come to now and players consider socialization as a chore, it's easier to stick to one's small group of friends and never evolve beyond that. The worst part is that the way games are made pretty much makes this possible. Unless you actively go out of your way to poke people they'll just ignore you and go along your way.
>>333873665
It's shit.
Ultima Online was the last good MMO game.
>>333872242
Im banking on this. ToS is even worse than post-shop RO and only pservers can salvage it.
>>333873970
xD +1 like
>>333857767
They're not, they're diverse enough that people gravitate to whatever niche they're interested in rather than jump on whatever's most popular.
Runescape has their new client with updated graphics coming out in a week or two I'm going to try it again after quitting 7 years ago to see how far nostalgia gets me
>>333874314
>mmos are diverse
>2016
They're all the same.
>>333873140
Nice job not reading. He's referring to general consumer reaction, not how things actually were.
>>333859628
also :
> we want the wow player base
>>333874550
>He's referring to general consumer reaction
That's why I posted my consumer reaction as a counter argument.
>Nice job not reading
>>333874314
thats the exact opposite of whats happening
They are all the same, everyone jumps on the newest one and then gets back to the one they spent the most time in initially / the one their friends are in
>>333857767
because the playerbase is literally dead
meaning that, a lot of them have died. heart attacks, strokes, blood clots, starvation, dehydration...
some aren't dead, but have families and jobs that are all consuming
>>333860636
Glad to see someone else still thinks highly of the potential TOS has, from one RO fan to another, cheers anon, and see you in the f2p OBT
>>333874932
kek
>>333875008
Last time I talked with a player he told me the game literally penalizes you for playing with others and you are the most efficient when playing alone.
Saviour of mmos really.
>>333876201
>there will never again be a game with a party system as fun as trickster's
>>333875008
>of the potential TOS has
Fuck that. Why would start playing a game because it might potentially be fixed or be good in the future? Been on that ship. No point. Just get out when shit starts not being fun.
>>333857767
See when I was a kid everyone played together.
People recommended MMOS, formed groups with irl friends and such.
These players, the ones that did that no longer have time, what with having jobs, relationships and responsibilities and whatnot.
The newer generation that should have replaced us prefer to watch people play games, they play games on tablets and phones, they don't even socialise.
Other genres picked up the 'you're neet waste your time on this game' niche. Now NEETs waste their time on Rust or MOBAS or other pointless games.
MMO became a genre within a genre. When people think about MMOs they think of grinding quests to reach max level so you can do endgame content.
A lot of people don't want to do chores so they can play a game.
Mobas replaced MMOs as the go-to PC only genre
100% serious
They're all free so any kid can play them without getting dad to pay monthly, they run on anything, and provide somewhat of a similar experience to an MMO on a micro scale, except with PVP as the main focus
>>333859528
It's boring shit.
>>333875008
Tos will be at its best on a private server with adjusted rates, limited cash shop, no restrictions, and cheap resets. Same with RO.
>>333866791
>>333857767
>level 59 assassin killing skeletons in payon cave 1
For what purpose
>>333865021
Logged in for the free login on Odin a few days ago, place was a fucking ghost town, even Idyllshire and Ishgard. I can't imagine the other servers are much different.
>>333878910
mace[4]
do you even ro?
>>333865329
Maybe Peria Chronicles, but I don't expect anything good to happen until there's a drastic shift in the MMO playerbase.
>>333865329
I don't man. I just want to kill my hopes on this shitty genre, at least what's left of it.
>>333879554
I think it has to do not with the playerbase itself (which can be molded by the game) but the game. Other titles, such as h&h, eve and wakfu, have shown hints that this is true. If the game sacrifices interaction for convenience, the fanbase will just sologrind to max level and then quit. If it's the opposite, the fanbase will play for longer and will interact with people, often instead of grinding rather than while grinding.
The main issue is that devs want to appeal to everyone, they're scared of appealing to specific niches. This causes their games to appeal weakly to everyone, and strongly to nobody.
>>333865109
>Everything except a few cookiecutter builds are so underpowered they can't do most content
>Why can't I solo everything in this MMO?
It's not the idea of mmos, it's that nobody has learned from Blizzard's mistakes to make a truly great one.
>>333874108
"Good" is an understatement.
Elder Tale when?
>>333880295
>No one wants to group with gimped classes that are shit at their role
Pretty fucking basic concept there.
>>333882453
>>333874108
What made UO so good? Tried a private server recently and it was basically grinding, only you couldn't just grind killing monsters but also mining stone and shit, like an indie survival game.
>>333883692
Babby's first try at an MMO I see.
>>333882865
The MMO mechanics are typical as fuck and don't matter. It's the characters that make the LN.
>>333857767
Were MMOs ever born?
I don't think so.
>>333883692
You would have to be there at the time. It's not the same now.
Your question has been answered many times though:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/2lwboi/why_do_so_many_people_like_ultima_online/
>>333857767
MMO's live under one motto.
>WE ARE LIKE STUFF YOU LIKE BUT WAAAAAY BETTER, check this stuff out that makes us different!
The problem is, that an mmo is a format of gaming that relies to heavily on that hype. Every one of them has a gimmick that demands our attention. The stories rarely hold any value. When the gimmick gets old, and the story about a bland setting with zero effort to make you feel anything becomes a hassle or clicking through dialogue instead of reading the fluff, you are left with the leveling system. Grind mobs, grind dungeons, grind jobs that earn you cash, cash shop exploration and finally end game. In older mmo's people made an effort to socialize and as time's gone on, people are more jaded now. We are no longer in an era of AIM where lengthy conversations are had. We live in an era of minimal effort texting to convey broken thoughts. People latch on to a new mmo like a new host. they suck as hard as they can, as fast as they can till they bloat get tired of the very same thing they've done a hundred times before in other mmo's then get jaded and stop playing it. We don't play mmo's anymore. We kill them.
>>333865329
You wait 4-5 years for WoW to die so something else can try and takes it place. Nothing else is going to succeed in the meantime.
I miss City of HeroesI saw my first actual tits because of that game
>>333885583
Story time?
>>333885748
not much of a story anon
>I was 14, she was 15
>Be blaster, she was a dominator
>Bro it up with her across the Rogue Isles
>Swap phone numbers
>mfw puberty did her a solid
Anyone know anything about this http://ro.xd.com?
It seems this was supposed to be a mobile game done by a chinese developer, but then Gravity took over again and will also bring it to PC.
Vertical Progression.
