He did nothing wrong
Except for all those things he did wrong, sure.
>>333772589
Like?
Did right for him.
Wrong for the rest of the world.
>>333772756
shoot two innocent people following orders from someone who hoping to save the human race in the face
>>333772756
murdering lots of people
i own this game but didnt play past the intro where i was hanging with some chick shootin some dudes
am i missing out
He actively participated in the rape and murder of others before he met Ellie.
He admitted to this in Philadelphia.
Does it make me trailer trash if I'd fuck the shit out of Tess?
Because I would.
>>333773082
I don't think there's any evidence of Joel being a rapist. Probably murdered people for half a can of beans though.
>>333772341
http://youtu.be/Omw1gM-b7pc
Didn't he admit to being a bandit with his brother and doing a lot of fucked up things "to survive"?
I honestly want a prequel game where it shows Joel going batshit crazy after Sarah died.
>>333773082
He didn't admit to rape but it's guaranteed he was the same type of hunter asshole who set up traps for innocent people and killed them for their shoes, which is why he recognized that trap before it hit them.
I agree.
>>333772341
He put his personal feelings for ellie ahead of the needs of the remains of human kind. He wasthe man who sold the world
>>333773506
do do do do dododod
>>333773506
You don't understand the song.
>>333773418
This.
>>333774043
What is the meaning of the song?
The world of the game was already fucked up beyond repair. I doubt the cure would've helped much in the long run even if they managed to develop it.
>>333774236
From Wikipedia:
In the BBC Radio 1 special programme "ChangesNowBowie", broadcast on 8 January 1997, Bowie was interviewed by Mary Anne Hobbs and was asked about the song. Bowie commented: "I guess I wrote it because there was a part of myself that I was looking for. Maybe now that I feel more comfortable with the way that I live my life and my mental state (laughs) and my spiritual state whatever, maybe I feel there's some kind of unity now. That song for me always exemplified kind of how you feel when you're young, when you know that there's a piece of yourself that you haven't really put together yet. You have this great searching, this great need to find out who you really are."
>>333773360
>I don't think there's any evidence of Joel being a rapist
he's a man
>>333772951
The fireflies had no clue what they were doing
>>333774650
But still, it's stupid to say that someone doesn't understand a song. It's up to interpretation.
>>333774347
This. There was no infrastructure to manufacture and distribute the vaccine (along with there being no guarantee that a vaccine could even be made).
And even if a vaccine was made and distributed, it's not going to bring anyone back from becoming a zombie, nor is it going to kill the already existing infected. What's left of humanity would still be stuck inside quarantine zones, struggling for supplies.
>>333774905
I think it was more the idea of giving humanity the chance to start over and rebuild rather than fix things overnight.
>>333772756
Kill all the good guys
>>333774832
>It's up to interpretation.
But only so far. Otherwise you look like a man looking for whales in a puddle.
>>333776020
The fireflies had no means of distributing the vaccine. All it would have done, had they succeeded in creating one, is sparked a new resource war.
>>333772341
> Murders loads of innocents and prevents a cure being made because muh emotions
> Game doesn't even imply it to be morally wrong
Naughty dog are trash. I would say it was normie writing tier, but even The Walking Dead is better at shit like that.
>>333777779
>baby has to be spoon fed what is right and wrong
>>333777779
>I want my morality to be dictated to me like a child
American tastes, everybody
>>333772756
Acted completely selfish, sure the fireflies had no sure way of a cure from Ellie, but they had a chance, he chose himself over mankind.
Murdered innocent people just doing what they were told
Smuggled guns and god knows what into an environment that doesn't need them.
Treated his brother like a piece of shit when all he wanted to do was help
>>333777910
With the the use of music and delivery of scenes, they just tried to make Joel look like some epic hero. The last act felt like they just wanted a big firefight finale, but had to make a reason for it. Video game developers are objectivly utter shit at writing, hence the dire ending.
He did nothing right either. Like he said, finding something to survive for in 20+ years requires you to do whatever it takes. He wasn't a good man or bad man in his world. People only think of him as bad because of the state of the world we live in.
>>333778204
>they tried to make joel look like some epic hero
They certainly didn't. As far as I could discern, the music and delivery just reflected how overly attached he'd become to what Ellie represented to him.
Why did so many ND employees leave the studio after The Last of Us and during the development of Uncharted 4?
I would have done the same. If you read some of the documents in the hospital it says something along the lines of they have had people who were immune before but they died while trying to make the cure and nothing came out of it.
>>333779695
"Creative Differences"
Which is interesting because the most senior members, Amy Henning and Justin Richmond, left for that reason and the new kids took control. There are rumors that they pushed the older crowd out, but they deny that.
>>333778112
well he is an honest character to be fair
it's a good ending
>>333779695
Bruce Straley seems like a good enough dude but Neil Druckmann is a ticking SJW time bomb. A kiss here, a fat character dropped there, next thing you know ND's next game is going to star a tranny
>>333780041
>well he is an honest character to be fair
>"I swear."
>>333778112
>fireflies
>innocent people
You mean the heavily armed soldiers who kidnapped Ellie and who's first plan was to execute Joel? The doctor's who were in the process of killing Ellie? You can argue that their actions were justified but they certainly weren't innocent.
>>333772341
And he did nothing right, either
>>333779987
I'm curious who was responsible for 3 being such a shitshow. Did Hennig just write a shitty story or was she railroaded into trying to connect a bunch of nonsensical set pieces. I'm guessing the latter.
>>333780783
Every writer drops the ball occasionally, but I do remember hearing that 3 was plagued with problems because VAs came and went like they recorded in a revolving door.
>>333780496
>Sony is going to let one of their top franchises be headed by transvestite.
This is what /pol/ actually believes.
>>333778204
Nigga, you didn't see the giraffes in the hallway when he was carrying Ellie? Or the doctors pleading for their lives before he killed them? Or how he checked Sarah's watch when he lied to Ellie? It was very subtle, but it was definitely there.
>>333782149
He killed one doctor and the guy was blocking his way with a scapel.
>>333783336
Damn, I guess that tells more about me than anything. As soon pulled out the flamethrower, they all started screaming.
>>333772341
The game he was in, that was wrong
One of my favorite aspects of the game is how everything unravels at the end to make Joel an anti-Judas figure; sacrificing possibly the entirety of humankind for one person that he's adopted. All of the scavenging, killing, and surviving to conclude with you being the true villain. The cordyceps fungus is entirely indifferent to suffering (it's fungus, for fuck's sake), but Joel makes a conscious, moral decision to put everyone else's suffering on the backburner for one person out of his own selfishness, and the game's writing is narcissistic enough to let you empathize or hate him for it. It's a great game that incorporates concepts of the human condition more than most in the industry.
Joel did what a father should.
>>333785630
Make Ellie a mother?
>>333773082
no wonder they had to make ellie a lesbian
i remember being a hormonal teenage girl, and if i were alone in the world with a guy that looked like that, i'd be jumping on him every damn night
>>333773043
fuck those guys though
>>333773057
eh, just read The Road, watch the movie version, then read the Walking Dead comics, eat some mushrooms, and say "Ellie!" randomly while doing so. you'll get the same experience
>>333777779
I find it hard to believe so many people missed this but the very end if the game where it switches to Ellie's perspective LITERALLY frames Joel as a lying psychopath. It pulls the control and perspective away from Joel so the player is no longer allowed to see things through his perspective. You're then forced to walk beside him as he lies to Ellie, she suspects it and the player directly knows it. Moments before the player almost surely felt justified in those actions and by simply moving the perspective away from Joel it forces you to reexamine what just happened and realize it was beyond fucked up and Joel is truly a selfish, bad man. It's honestly the best moment in the entire narrative because it does something really subtle and brilliant, probably the only brilliant moment in the game.
To say it doesn't completely call Joel's character into question is patently false, in fact it actively shows him as a bad person throughout and the final moments only serve to highlight that.
>>333787402
Don't forget the symbolism. There's a reason why we played as his daughter at the beginning. When it finally hit me, I thought was a pretty neat narrative technique
>>333780509
I don't think that's what he means
>>333788294
TLOU is a lot smarter than /v/ gives it credit for, it's a relatively standard plot with some really great execution all around. The plot is basic but the narrative is unique and has a lot of subtle nuances that dig into the characters.
Joel is not the player, you don't role play, he's not your avatar in the game. You play the game from his perspective but it's his story, not the player's. While I would have appreciated better replay value with different branching stories, I also acknowledge the story would be a lot weaker by doing that. It's not really up to the player. I think this is what they were trying to explore with the perspective shifts - throughout the entire game you keep seeing Joel from an outside perspective. Most other games I wouldn't consider this an artistic use of shifting perspective as it usually doesn't serve a purpose beyond gameplay differences. But I think here it's very clear it has a narrative purpose, and part of that is to frame Joel as a character and not the player, and call him into question for his actions and feelings.
>>333788903
Exactly. People get hung up on the plot when really it's the characters and writing that matters. The game is supposed to be a character story about Joel, Ellie is essentially a side character that drives most of the plot. I think they really drove this in at the end of winter when Joel finally accepts Ellie as a surrogate daughter. Also, people complaining about not having multiple endings are retards.
>>333778112
Not trying to be edgy but what is it about mankind that seems worthy of saving to you? Throughout the game people do terrible shit to each other instead of just helping each other out, including the main character. In the game, human lives outside of your small community of people are worth nothing to all of the characters in the game. Actually the only person who didnt seem to be a completely violent murderer who actually cared about other people was ellie.
The fireflys are willing to sacrifice a young girl with virtually no qualms just for the chance that they might find a cure using her body. I think that if people were just slightly more hesitant to take each other's lives humanity would not have been so badly decimated. I also think that the general destruction of common morality and compassion in the apocalypse destroyed the firefly's sense of right and wrong. If the fireflys really wanted to save humanity then they wouldnt be willing to take any lives, especially without their given consent as it was with ellie's case.
>>333787402
>>333788903
>>333789797
>>333791305
>Quality posts about TLoU
>On /v/
what the hell
>>333772341
He's a white guy. Needs to check his privilege.
My favorite thing about the last of us is how it seemed to sort oof play with cliches.
There were so many moments where I knew exactly what was going to hppen... and then they didn't happen. One of my favorites was later in Pittsburg where you walk into this huge arena like room full of rows of waist high walls... And there are no battles. You don't fight anyone, and you just walk right through. It felt like a wink and a nod. The game was full of em.
