Consequences are complexity. So, until WoW gets consequences for actions (like gear loss), it will always be casual?
Inb4 "but raiding gear would have to be lost as well (and that would be awful)".
Seriously, the problem with the game is content. Theme park design has no potential except what's produced under the strict guidelines/QA that Blizz has. So, what's the fix? The game economy should be full of items to flip and produce (professions.. roles). This comes through supply and demand, and if gear is static until the next patch, demand is static. Theme park progression is also mostly based on leveling, the content of which becomes obsolete immediately. Leveling is archaic. Linear gear grinding is mechanical and restricted. Sandbox play is spontaneity.
The reply comes up, "But why play if you have the best gear?" Because the game is entertaining. Because going out in the best gear is unnecessary.
>It wouldn't fix anything
Prove it, then. What would? It's helpful to realize what's actually motivating. Feeling free to roam around for plays and pays is more interesting than looking at the lockout checkbox.
>This isn't the problem
How so? The gameplay is probably going to be the same rolodex of tuning. Might as well have an interesting realm meta.
>>333599851
You're correct on the problem but not even in the right galaxy on the solution
>>333599851
>need X amount of accuracy to go to dungeon
>armor breaks in the first half
>i am useless throughout
>"you just had to grind up 2 full sets of accuracy capping gear before you can run gungeons"
>>333600020
Haven't played a sandbox MMO? The gear costs a certain amount and is readily available on the AH. "Missions" can reward the monetary value of a full set of gear, but they're in non-instanced areas where anybody can come in and have a go.
"Accuracy" isn't a great stat, so it's not obvious why that's coming up except to strawman.
>>333599986
Alternatively..?
WoD failed us because:
>dailies replaced with area "dailies" for apexis
>apexis is useless
>crafting materials obtainable in garrison
>crafting materials gated with the barn and not actual crafting profs
>garrisons in general
>garrisons missions forcing you to be in your garrison at log-in to send followers out
>removal of actual capital cities in favor of stormshield/warspear
>reputations absolutely useless except for cosmetics
>reputations an absolute grind
>gating flying behind 6.2 reputations since "flying wasn't ready"
>honor gear better than actual raid gear
>conquest gear 10 ilvls better
>tuning for 10 mans awful at every raid launch
I could go on, but maybe Legion will be alright. I'll be playing it either way at this point, so who cares?
>>333600271
I haven't played WoW, but I am sure it had stats that limited how much you can contribute.
Some chance to hit for DPS, some defense rating for tanks, etc.
If your gear didn't have the necessary caps, your DPS would suffer as you miss the big blow of your rotation, or you could die in a huge damage spike, because the boss could crit you.
>>333600453
>reputations a grind
>crush a few legion medallions
>exalted with everyone
Wow
>>333599851
>WoW (fuck off, mods. this is vidya)
>breaking 2 rules just in the OP
uh oh..javascript:;
>Consequences are complexity
No, complexity is complexity.
>>333600475
These sort of hard caps you need to reach were removed a while ago.
>>333600740
Consequences will never be the same
can you stop spamming your idea
has it been multiple years yet or just one
>>333600475
Hit as a stat is gone and being immune to NPC crits is included in every tankspec.
>>333599851
This is such a fucking horrible idea and I don't understand how you can't see that.
It would literally make the community 100 times worse.
Please stop these threads.
>>333600665
>he didnt eval a seven
lol
>be playing with my mythic guild
>am one of the officers, recruit lots of people, a handful even stood long term and became core
>be there since wotlk, slowly progressed to becoming one of the pillars
>a guy that just got here a month ago, hasn't even got raider rank whispers me saying he has something of worth to ask me
>he says he's actually the officer of a heroic raiding guild and seeing how I perform I could give him some suggestion
>think to myself I'm gonna play along and pretend I'm interested in his pitiful guild
>say sure, give him the link to a post I made after editing it and fucking up rotation and gliphs
>the day after I log on
>he immediately whispers me screaming how he got kicked from the raid for doing sub par dps all because of my post
>tough luck kiddo
>whisper the GM of his guild, tell him how he's trying to jump ship to get into mine because he thinks you're lame
>he shits himself seeing my guild's name (top 5 worldwide)
>one minute later dumbo has been kicked out of his guild
>tell this in trade chat too adding some more details here and there to make sure no decent guild will ever add him again
>GM of his old guild even gives me his house address at my request
>tell this to Adam (GM of my guild) on Vent and we laugh it off
>he asks the retard to come on vent one day and invites him to our channel
>he's basically crying at this point asking me why I put all that effort into hurting him
>reveal to him that us elite mythic raiders are hardcore about everything we do
>proceed to swat him and his family 4 fun, dog got killed
>>333600665
How is titling the thread with WoW against the rules?
How is telling the janitors to keep on-topic discussion against the rules. >Correction is complaint
>>333601029
kek
>>333601029
Its a doggy dog world dude.
>>333600627
Medallions weren't around until 6.2, and by then everyone jumped ship.
It still doesn't make the reputations any more interesting. Few of them have quests, and even less have rewards worth the grind.
>>333601186
You mean dog eat dog world.
What do you think about the new mythic CM changes?
Some additional information: There are two "buckets" of affixes.
Available at power level 3+:
Tyrannical - Bosses have significantly more health and damage.
Bolstering - Non-boss enemies will buff nearby allies' health and damage when defeated.
Raging - Non-boss enemies will enrage at low health, dealing double damage until killed.
Teeming - Additional non-boss enemies are present throughout the dungeon; kill count requirement increased.
Available at power level 6+:
Necrotic - Enemy melee attacks apply a stacking debuff that deals damage and reduces healing received.
Volcanic - Enemies cause eruptions of flame beneath the feet of distant players.
Skittish - Tanks generate much less threat.
Decay - All players suffer damage over time while the challenge is active.
There are currently 8 valid affix pairs, with a sequence that will advance every 12 hours (for testing purposes - will advance with weekly reset in the live game):
Teeming/Skittish
Raging/Necrotic
Bolstering/Decay
Tyrannical/Volcanic
Teeming/Necrotic
Raging/Volcanic
Bolstering/Skittish
Tyrannical/Decay
>>333601346
some players on the forum said that affixes like Teeming and Skitting force hard CC like TBC dungeons. Hopefully the implementation works well and makes dungeons fun and relevant
I has a question.
It's been years since I played WOW. But I remember there were bots everywhere. Is that something that Blizzard finally fixed or not ?
>>333600740
>No
Prove it.
This thread has too much "nuh uh" and not enough actual criticism.
>>333601346
I did 9/9 gold in MoP and had a lot of buzzword with it
I don't see the point in turning it into diablo-tier randomness, it was better when you could route it out and know when to invis and whatnot
>>333601346
10 MAN MYTHIC RAIDING.
WHEN
>>333599851
>Consequences are complexity
I don't think that's true. You can have very simple mechanical systems with dire consequences in a game. Dying after dropping your souls in Dark Souls means you lose them. That's a strong consequence because the souls are important as exp/currency. That doesn't make it a complex system though.
That said dropping your items when you die makes for some fun in an MMO. I remember playing a private Ragnarok Online server that had world PVP enabled and had this item losing mechanic and it was a lot of fun.
I really think Blizzard should embrace alternative, fun server types for people to enjoy during content 'downtime' waiting for new patches. Think a Nost style Vanilla server, a server with PVP against all players enabled (not just cross faction), items dropping onto the ground as a lootable bag on death, etc, etc.
>>333601207
There is that laughing skull clan hub, but they never added any quests to it
fucking lazy
>>333601346
I was a big fan of classic modes and I'm torn. This new format is definately interesting, but we are losing something in the process as well.
Current CM are the most challening PvE content in the game and it is extremely satisfying to push your time, develop the perfect setup, the perfect route, etc. These changes will definately hinder that somewhat as changing, random effects make planning somewhat obsolete.
Obviously there is also a new challenge in adjusting to these things more or less on the fly, but I think we have yet to see if what we're giving up is worth what we're getting.
>>333601346
im intrigued
wonder what kind of rewards you'll get for reaching different lvls
>>333601481
>diablo-tier randomness
desu this is what annoys me the most
>Kill boss 10 times
>Finally drops his filthy anal dildo blade
>Oh n-
>It's not warfucked fedora bladed extra meme with quad socket
>It's shit!
>>333601497
Never, 10man raiding was a mistake
>>333601497
hopefully never
>>333601480
How about you prove it? There is no apparently reason to think consequences are complexity.
Complexity basically means lots of factors. The more factors you have to consider with any given choice, the most complex the choice is. There's nothing complex about "gear breaks".
>>333599851
>bawww please acknowledge my shitty opinions
>>333601752
>>333601771
10 man raiding was perfect. PERFECT.
>>333601515
Losing some souls in DaS isn't as consequential as losing a bunch of gold or gear in an MMO by getting farmed.
Can some games go nowhere with consequences? Apparently, but, at least for an MMO, status is a huge factor. That's money, powerful gear, and dank plays.
There's no negative to a free-roam gear loss mechanic, as everything has been pushed into garrisons as is.
>>333601782
Then there's that much less complexity about "muh lockout checklist".
>>333601872
It felt lame and with soon 11 classes it's silly.
You either want 40 man raid for that huge, epic feeling or 20-30 for a more concise, but still "big" experience.
>>333601984
10 man raiding was comfy as fuck with the right people man.
>>333601872
Small group of dedicated guys, no one slacking off, everyone prepared because the others would see right through every tardiness. I enjoyed 10 man. Also with Karazhan you at least gave casuals the illusion of being real raiders.
>>333601946
Gear being permanent or not is simply a choice completely removed from complexity. Going either way doesn't add or remove complexity, just convenience.
>>333601984
>40 man raid
>20-30 man raid
No.
10 man is literally the ultimate perfection.
>get to actually know people
>No "Lol xShadk is missing" followed with "who the fuck is xshadk?"x10 times
>>333602080
Except for the economy that comes from it. ..Except the free roam and endless content, WPvP, potential for AV style mini-games (but non-instanced)..
Seems like complexity.
>>333599851
You are basically trying to turn WoW into a completely different game. The theme park can be done well, and was done well for the first 1-2 expansions. Yes you need constant content and the luls in that are what caused the second expansion to get a bit tiring, but that wasn't an issue with the concept, but with the people making it. It shouldn't be a problem for a sub based game to put out more stuff every few months. Blizzard just decided to start coasting when they got to a certain point and stop working on as much stuff for every expansion/even cutting stuff they had planed.
>>333599851
ill say the same i say to FF14 shitters:
>>>/vg/
>>333601346
As someone who dropped WoW with Cata, that sounds dumb as fuck.
>>333602641
/v/ became noticeably worse with every splinter board added. You are part of the problem.
>>333602641
so are you saying that /v/ should only be board for small shitty games that dont even have generals? fuck off back to wherever you came from, you fucking tourist
>>333603034
>recurring threads for old games belong on /vg/
>recurring threads for new games are allowed for up to 2 weeks after which they need to relocate to /vg/
Deal with it fucktard.
>>333602505
It's the exact same game except with a WPvP meta.
>>333599851
Read this you nigger:
http://mud.co.uk/richard/The%20Decline%20of%20MMOs.pdf
>>333602348
Except aside from the economy, none of those things rely on gear being non-permanent.
And even the economic factor is not a complex one, it simply adds some demand for gear.
>>333601029
love this pasta - no joke
>>333603242
>using the word meta
>>333603745
>Article that hasn´t been published in a reputable journal
>Only referencing himself
>9 pages, 7 references
>that formatting
There´s undergraduates producing better academic work in their first week than this garbage wannabe professor.
>have to grind golds/mats for gear before you can play properly
>die due to lag/bad pull/gank and lose money/mats on repairs
>can't play because your shits all fucked
Oh yeah sounds like great fun, lets improve WoW by adding even more chores and grinds, that sure has worked out well before.
>>333604356
Yeah, it DID work well before.
It's hard enough to convince the nigger scrubs in my guild to pot and flask, imagine if I also had to convince them to put on their best gear because they're afraid of losing it.
>>333601334
>>333599851
>Gear loss
That's always been a terrible idea and it would literally go nowhere in this day and age. Having a chance to die while you try to do something important should be enough, and that can also apply to sandboxy things.
>Theme park progression is also mostly based on leveling, the content of which becomes obsolete immediately. Leveling is archaic.
I agree. I wouldn't say leveling is archaic, but leveling shouldn't be all that important at all. In Ragnarok Online for example, leveling up was time consuming and grindy as fuck, but as long as you had enough job levels (skill points) to learn your essential spells, you were pretty much golden and could contribute in most of the content. So you have the whole game to enjoy while you work your way up there and you won't really get in the way if you're a lazy fuck.
>Linear gear grinding is mechanical and restricted.
This. Going back to RO again, the "best gear" was mostly pretty easy to farm, save for some key items. Most slotted items and cards you needed dropped from pretty weak monsters, but you wouldn't waste your cool +damage on X monster type cards on +0 weapons. That made so Blacksmiths were useful to you by forging things like elemental weapons until you have nice upgraded gear, which in turn helps the economy etc etc.Also no BoP stupidity, so you can sell your shit later for whatever it's worth
>>333604356
i know. Why the fuck dont they just give me the gear as soon as I log in?
>>333604913
>the ground is too soft
>I wish more of my bones were broken
>>333601029
Every time
>this thread
muh WoW GENWUNNERS
>>333600815
thank god, they were archaic shit that was boring and pointless
HFC, despite being out for too long and blizzard fucking up WoD, shits on every pre-WOTLK raid(mechanically shits on WOTLK raids too). Not having to worry about shit like hit rating directly contributes to it.
>>333604902
> you were pretty much golden and could contribute in most of the content
>contribute
you filthy casuals aren´t contributing shit to anything. you drag down other players to your low level of skill and justify it with "i contributed and had fun" while others actually accomplished it for you. entitled little prick.
>>333604902
>That's always been a terrible idea and it would literally go nowhere in this day and age.
Yeah in the theme park care bear age for casuals that never want any set backs because they are entitled to progression just by time spent.
>>333604591
To be fair the game is pretty old and is bound to show fatigue some time. I don't know what these people expect. An immortal game that'll be around forever? Is such a thing even possible? I don't think so.
>>333600453
>Actually likes dailies
Being able to use your time as you want to rather than having to wait was one of the things that has ruined the game.
Daily lockouts should have only been for dungeons not quests and reputations.
>>333605321
>Runescape and Eve are older than WoW
>Runescape is growing, Eve is stable
>P99 Everquest is growing
WoW is the only MMO from its era declining.
>>333605317
>the entire "skill" of vanilla WoW was time spent
>people complain about players now wanting things for spending time playing the game
>>333605321
also this, it's really hard to do anything for 10 years straight
>>333599851
Sandboxfag, I missed you.
>>333605414
This is some fallacious shit, isn't it?
Please, tell me like it really is.
>>333605414
>WoW is the only MMO from its era declining.
So I guess FFXI and CoH both being dead doesn't count?
Just make the game challenging
>Up the hp and damage of all enemies
>Enemies have some kind of high damage or cc skill that needs to be avoided in some way or else you get it
>Make people think and strategise since dungeon 1
Just make a fun game and that's it. Think about the rewards later.
>>333605426
>>the entire "skill" of vanilla WoW was time spent
You fucking joking me? The same vanilla where a rogue or warlock in blues could trash t3 warriors/paladins no problem if you weren't a keyboard turning mouth breather?
The skill ceiling was definitely low, but I can sure as hell bet you never reached it.
>>333603838
Crafting is a role. That's the whole of the game.
It's content, playing. There should obviously be motivation.
>>333603745
The Bartle player types seem awful.
>>333606034
>trash t3 warriors/paladins
>trash t3 warriors
ahahahaha
>>333604591
Pwnd.
>>333605321
>>333605426
Isn't that plenty of reason to spice up the game?
>>333606228
The fact that you laugh at this like the dumb nigger you are already proves how bad you were, and still are, at the game.
>>333606304
>say stupid shit
>loyamo ur le dumbo nigroid x_D
Also
>Paladin
>Not shit
>>333604617
>instanced PvE
That's not this.
>>333606415
Yes you're saying stupid shit, and given how your only replies are typing out laughter and green texting even if your skin color isn't black your brain sure as hell is charred. Take your pick ape.
You also just proved my point with the paladin. Time spent means shit because the game isn't balanced what so ever.
>>333605916
They already do that and consistently put out much less content than what should come.
What is "just fun" for the game? There has to be something with depth.
>>333606567
Some proof cuckmeisser?
>>333606567
>Memedin
>Good
>Warrior
>Not the gencide machine
I mean, yeah if they're AFK you might kill them. Any full naxx-gear faggot will buttfuck your blue-wearing anus son. Keep being upset.
>>333604913
Why do these idiots equate not wanting to grind with wanting free gear? I for one would love to be rewarded for doing something that was appropriately fun and challenging, mindlessly killing clouds of mobs for 5rep a pop or waiting on that 0.01% drop rate item is neither. Logging on every day just to prepare to have fun by doing non-fun things like grinding gold and mats is a stupid fucking idea.
>>333607624
Because you're on /v/ where people are too shit to excel at competitive games, so they need stupid shit like this to be implemented so they can have a chance to call someone a casual for not wanting to do it.
>>333606784
>>333606878
I'M AM FUCKING DONE, YOU LITERALLY CANNOT BE THIS RETARDED
I'M OUT
>>333607890
>are you kidding me.jpg
>>333606172
That motivation should be that it's fun.
Creating so much demand that only crafting and doing nothing else is worth it financially would make for the most boring game of all time for the crafter.
>>333608019
>>333599851
>playing WOW
No, you fuck off, poopsock.
>>333608378
Bad goyim, buy Legion already
>>333608029
appeal to extremes
>>333609593
Not really. WoW crafting is literally the most boring thing in the world of video games.
>>333608075
>>333605414
>WoW is the only MMO from its era declining.
>PlayStation®2 and Xbox 360® service for FINAL FANTASY XI will terminate on Thursday, March 31, 2016, at 7:00 a.m. (PDT) Players will no longer be able to access the PlayOnline Viewer from these platforms after that time.
>>333601029
>started playing the game again
>read this post
>consider for a second that it might actually be real
>feel like killing myself now
It all went downhill so quickly
>>333609971
WoW fishing exist.
>>333607624
>>333607840
did you even read the post he replied to? that dude was whining about having to farm potions for raids
