Why is it so difficult for new MMORPGs to succeed?
Will we ever have another game that caught the craze of WoW, Runescape, or even Maplestory in their glory days?
>>333450813
>Why is it so difficult for new MMORPGs to succeed?
Carbine is dickheads
they did it to themselves
>>333450813
They can't succeed if they have poor design choices. See any MMO that has come out in the last few years.
>>333450813
WoW's a piece of shit.
>>333450813
Most of them focus on improving or changing just one aspect of another more popular game and expect to be just as popular because they do a blitz of marketing. Wildstar brought nothing new to the table and expected to be successful because they marketed it loudly.
A lot of it is managing expectations and development costs but so many mmo devs just assume they can make wow bucks.
>>333450813
They either keep trying to out-WoW WoW, or they try to avoid being compared to WoW and therefore ignore all the things people like about it.
And of course they tend to have bland as fuck gameplay while doing nothing to foster a sense of community by making everything soloable.
People have it in their head that an MMO needs to have Wrath sub numbers to be good
Somebody forgot that games that actually feel like MMOs instead of glorified lobbies are niche
>>333450813
new mmo's suffer from investment syndrome.
companies need to learn that getting a decent constant player-base is better then getting ALL the people for a few months.
Good example of keeping the numbers; EVE. Even if it's not your taste you gotta admire their ability to keep players that like the game
Because WoW has more people and WoW is in no danger of being taken offline so people would rather invest in that than a new MMO which a year down the line will be shut down by greedy companies.
>>333450813
It's kind of the source material anymore.
SWTOR could have been marvelous. but everyone noticed that the developers spent absolutely no time on the actual game but instead voice actors. This resulted in them just copy pasting WoW's gameplay to fit the bill and making up a bunch of bullshit that ruined the source material.
WoW was fine for like the first 2 expansions. then they started fucking with the source material and it is trash now. along with their lack of ideas on how to keep the game fresh.
No developer seems to want to use some good pre-existing franchise and make a MMO out of it anymore. and any that do don't want to be arsed to make a different gameplay style other than WoW.
Maplestory Runescape and Ragnarok strive in a age where the idea of a MMO was interesting and not everyone and their fucking mother wanted to make one. Now everyone can and will if it will net them a quick profit.
For the basics I'de like to see the combat of Blade and soul with the quest system of Guild wars 2.
>>333450813
wildstar was born premature and then left on a mountaintop for the wolves
that game needed like at least a year and a half of dev time, and either quadruple the post-launch dev staff, or a post-launch dev team that was more competent by a factor of four
very unfortunate; the grind to endgame was also horrendously long and tedious
Because MMO is a shit genre.
>IT'S JUST LIKE VANILLA WOW
>THE NEXT WOW KILLER
>YOU CAN DO ANYTHING
>>333450813
They had the nerve to charge full retail price when WoW and FF14 was already dominating the market.
Brehs is there any competent MMO coming out soon. I just have the need to level with a community around me.
>>333454980
this, this right here is the other reason that new mmo's will likely fail
entitled chucklefucks like this faggot making future mmo designers plan their game around cheap/free launch
>>333454475
>quadruple the post launch dev staff
to be completely fair, familia, if i was looking for a dev job and i saw
1) another dumb fucking wow clone
2) vanilla wow was good! It was "hardcore"
3) we want the sjw audience
4)nexon
i would take my application and shove it up my urethra
i would have had a better chance joining up a studio about to be bought by EA
>>333450813
Everyone who wants to play an MMO has got one already.
>>333450813
Because nobody wants mmo's anymore.
Every time a new mmo comes out people go to it thinking they might find the new mmo the have been waiting for because they believe they still like mmo's when in reality they don't, they are just invested into the one they are currently playing that they can't stop it.
>>333450813
VR mmo when
What's a decent MMO I can play right now? I just want to put a few days into something so I can get the MMO itch back out of my system and go back to living.
Successful 'mmos' have moved to consoles.
Tigole destroyed it.
The game design is plainly outdated.
They used to be a way for people to both meet people online and do something together. We have social media for that now and online games you can easily play with your online friends are more numerous than ever before.
There are people who still enjoy the type of game an MMO is, however, but people are tired of the same old WoW-esque design for games that aren't called WoW.
Paradoxically, any game that changes the formula too much ends up in this weird place where people don't want to call it an MMO, such as Destiny.
>>333450898
This
Dont pretend Wildstar died because of some reason other than it being a shitty game
>>333457804
>Paradoxically, any game that changes the formula too much ends up in this weird place where people don't want to call it an MMO, such as Destiny.
That is completely false
Destiny is not an MMO because it isnt massive. Also, its not a paradox, dont use words you dont understand.
>>333450813
New MMORPGs aren't succeeding because they're all just trying to reskin the same tried and true bullshit that people are sick of now.
What people want these days is more akin to a Simulation Online RPG that's like EVE except not slow and boring as fuck.
Nobody has delivered on this yet, but when something decent finally gets published it will be sure to explode.
>>333457986
>It's not an MMO because it doesn't fit the very very specific rules an MMO must fit and I refuse to allow the definition to change
GW1 wasn't massive either as far as how many people you can play with at once goes, and the developer didn't even call it an MMO but people still accepted that it was one.
They made an MMO that's like vanilla WoW, which only a small bunch of incredibly hardcore players wanted. The amount of players wasn't enough to keep up costs and also the game was unoptimized and buggy as hell.
>>333450813
They're fucking boring, maybe if you had like 10 or 12 of the developers act as living "Gods" and manipulate the game and players on a daily basis
>>333450813
I thought Wildstar was really fun.. I wanted it to succeed badly.
>>333458365
I liked it too. I wish it hadn't been bogged down with so many poor design decisions and awful optimization.
Only thing I liked about Wildstar was the cartoony and expressive artstyle.
>>333458179
GW1 is not an MMO
>>333450898
Sadly, I have to agree. One of the things that pissed me off was that creating a guild was locked behind a paywall. Of all things and a game where it's having a tough time creating a community, they lock a community building feature.
It's a great game. There's just a few boneheaded decisions that cost it.
>>333458365
Wildstar had good elements for sure. But it also had a lot of fucking terrible elements and it ran like ass.
It was buggy as shit and the developers couldn't fix any of them.
I could not believe that Carbine announced they were going live while half the UI was still buggy and such a memory leak you had to make a macro just to do the slash command to flush/reset it every 10 minutes or it caused your framerate to chug hard.
>ctrl+F
>no Publisher result
As long as PUBLISHERS continue to think that WoW model is the most profitable model, that causal facebook players are the key demographic, or how they can just rush developer to making the MMO and fucking it up at launch, then MMO will just get shitter and shitter. They will think that if they can't get 1000000000000000000 players at launch, the game is a failure and they will not get any support after launch.
>>333458179
>>It's not an MMO because it doesn't fit the very very specific rules an MMO must fit and I refuse to allow the definition to change
Dont be an idiot, MMO stands for Massively Multiplayer Online. There is nothing massive about Destiny, or even GW1
Just because a bunch of people start calling Mario Kart an RPG doesnt make it one
>>333458670
It has nothing to do with publishers, there are a massive number of publisher-less MMOs that fail and follow the WoW model
Stop trying to pretend developers are the good guys, they are just as greedy as anyone else
>>333451770
This.
Publishers want to just blow their load instead of trying to have a sustainable title.
>>333458287
>game was unoptimized and buggy as hell
This is why all these games fall up their own ass in a year. Not for any other reason.
>>333450813
>Why is it so difficult for new MMORPGs to succeed?
The odd thing is that it seems people are craving for it. Every fucking day I see threads asking about what mmo to play and yet people are saying mmos are a dead genre. Who's killing it? The players or the mmo makers?
>>333459091
devilian was another good example
Trion banked on getting everybody to just buy $x Founder Packs and maybe buy some p2w keys off their cash shop. Last I heard the game is dead was shit as soon as 1 month later, and all that DEX Marketplace Money that players had bought was worthless since they couldn't even buy the new content using it; REAL MONEY only, no trino funbux :^)
>>333459245
It's mutual destruction. If you wanna play an MMO the only one that's worth anything still is World of Warcraft like always, even if it's way, way, way past it's heyday.
>>333450813
Because everyone that has money to develop an AAA game is not willing to risk implementing any original ideas and people with original ideas don't have the resources to create an AAA project.
A new successful MMO is possible, if someone actually risks making something that isn't a WoW derivative. Currently, the only thing like that I know of is Crowfall, but some of their design decisions seem really questionable to me.
>>333459340
I think the game lost it's publisher in Korea too. It didn't do so hot over there either.
>>333459050
Anon, please. It's pretty stupid to think that publishers does not have any influence in the creation of the mmo and the decision is ultimately theirs. The biggest example of this is when Luca Arts had SoE turn Star Wars Galaxies into a wow copy and that fucking kill the population. Another example is Sega and how they love to prevent the western from playing PSO 2 until recently. Oh and then there NCSoft and their long strings of killing mmos left and right, either because profit or petty revenge.
>Stop trying to pretend developers are the good guys
It doesn't matter. Good or bad, mmo will fail if they have to follow the jew publishers.
>>333459678
>It's pretty stupid to think that publishers does not have any influence in the creation of the mmo and the decision is ultimately theirs
Thats not what I said
You are pretending all MMOs woes are caused by publishers, they are not.
>>333459678
>It doesn't matter. Good or bad, mmo will fail if they have to follow the jew publishers.
>people shouldnt want a return on investments
Stupid underage anon is stupid and underage
>>333459678
Wasn't that because some butthurt American scriptkiddies got mad with the devs and proceeded to use exploits to completely fuck with PSO, so the japanese playerbase told SEGA to not let any of those fucking gaijin play PSO2?
its funny after all these years somehow runescape has still managed to hold on to 100k players during the daytime (between new rs and osrs)
>>333459841
Except most, if not all decisions, are the publishers since they own the developers and the mmo financial-wise. All of my example were publisher's intervention and how those mmo end up getting screw because of them.
>>333459950
You have to be 18 years old to post here.
>>333459960
More like to the Japans, Westerns are their version of the BR/Russians.
>>333450813
Who was this game marketed to? I dont consider myself casual but I dont consider myself hardcore either. But I do have elitist tendencies in that I believe that everyone should do their best and despise "glamour is endgame" shitters. Yet the dev videos before this game was released really turned me off. It was full of memes, immature about its hardcore self fellating.
I didn't pick the game up until it went f2p but thought it was pretty decent aside from dungeon bosses having too much hp (I was a medic that still dpsed) and the shitload of clutter on the interface even after full addon replacement. I ended up playing only 1 week.
>>333460174
>Except most, if not all decisions, are the publishers since they own the developers
Holy shit you are so naive
Publishers just lend money to developers, they are not always the actual owners of that company.
>>333456356
this
believe it or not, MMOs are a niche crowd nowadays aside from WoW
>guild wars 2
>>333460174
>You have to be 18 years old to post here.
So why are you posting?
You do realize that every fucking MMO ever has had investors right?
Your bitching and crying about a super fucking expensive type of game development requiring a financial mindset when its physically impossible to make an MMO without having one. You think good will and magic makes an MMO? It doesnt matter if a bank, publisher, independents or their own pocket, MMOs need to make money and thats that.
>>333460218
Currently, I guess people who really really like housing?
I still enjoy FFXIV even if I take breaks every now and then.
>>333458365
Yeah it was fun. I had a friend and we played through a good chunk of it. I unsubbed later because I needed to cut costs and dungeons take hours to get people just to have the tank be the stupid assassin class.
>>333460347
>lend money
And here is how those Publishers control the Developers. If they want to make a quick buck, they will rush the developers to finish the game and have a horrible launch. It's a short term profit but it kills the game in the long run. Afterward, they will get another developer to make another mmo and rinse and repeat.
>>333460494
You have to be 18 years old to post here.
>>333460567
>moving the goalposts
ALL game development is a cost/benefit analysis. Stop fucking pretending that publishers are the only ones who fuck over MMOs. Jesus you are naive.
>>333450813
>>333450898
>>333451075
>>333451179
>>333454475
>>333457884
>>333458510
>>333458573
just download and play wildstar u fucken nerds
>>333460567
See >>333460494
MMOs are made to make money. All MMOs need massive financial injections from somewhere, if it has a publisher or not is irrelevant because all developers have financial commitments to people who have their balls in their hands.
Stop being underage and learn how the world works kid.
>>333460641
Of course all games development has a cost/benefit analysis. The problem here is that the Publishers has the mentality that every mmo should be WoW and they will have the developers make their mmo into WoW just to get that short-term profit. Investment or not, these Publishers don't care for the quality of the game as long as they can get that launch profit. It's naive to think that the Publishers aren't involvement with the repeated failures of mmos.
>>333460786
You have to be 18 years old to post here.
>>333450813
Everyone just keeps trying to get the WoW audience by making WoW + some feature.
Surprise surprise, then Blizzard copies that feature. And then the clone has nothing to offer.
>>333450813
Because people don't know what they wan't so even when they tell developers what they want they realize that isn't what they really wanted.
>>333460969
>the point
>your head
You are literally too stupid to educate, I give up.
>>333460969
>
The only thing you have proven is that you are too childish to post here and cant handle legitimate criticism.
>>333450813
Mmorpgs are a shitty game format and everyone with half a brain is tired of them
>>333461132
Stupid about what? How the Publishers, for the most part, own the developers and their game? It's like you never know how the game industry work.
>>333461208
>The only thing you have proven is that you are too childish to post here and cant handle legitimate criticism.
>>333459950
>Stupid underage anon is stupid and underage
You have to be 18 years old to post here.
All I want is an MMO with decent Fishing mechanics
Why is that so much to ask? I just want to fish
>>333460456
I know people are going to say GW2 is a shit game, but if you've never played it before it's free and a fun game to try out. You can level to max with a free account, with some limitations of course.
>>333461651
It's a barren game, the exploration is shit, there no one forming team for dungeons, pvp is p2w, wvw is a mess, you can't map chat or use the gem exchange, and you can't do raids
The game was dead in the water the moment they started charging monthly subscriptions. That shit just doesn't work for any MMO aside from WoW in this day and age. They turned it F2P too late.
>>333450813
both WoW and Runescape were playable on a Mac. Just saying.
>>333450813
WildStar needed more Aurin lewds.
>>333462380
f2p mmos are all shit
>>333461576
Black Desert Online
>>333458572
>One of the things that pissed me off was that creating a guild was locked behind a paywall.
It takes no time at all to farm up the plat for CREDD.
>>333450813
It might having something to do with the genre being 100% devoid of any sort of originality.
