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GAMING FRANCHISES
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You are currently reading a thread in /v/ - Video Games

Thread replies: 255
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Show how games in a series are rated. This one is for Fallout.
>>
but the original fallout is the best
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>NV over 2
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>>333420434
Template
>>
None of the post-Bethesda games are good. NV had an interesting premise and structure, but the engine's just too shitty tohave any fun therein.
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>>333420434
NV is not better than Fallout 1 and 2, you retarded faggot.
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>>333420434
>>
>>333420548
>>333420878
2 and 1 will always have superiour atmosphere and story due to game design. They're great, but I don't think you realize how much I love New Vegas. I want to FUCK New Vegas. I want to pound the Mojave so hard it starts to sweat and creates nuclear winter.
>>
>>333421462
I'm glad you love New Vegas. Gamebryo still shits the bed. Maybe if a group of fans made an isometric demake, then I'd be bothered to play it.
>>
>>333420434
>NV better than 1 and 2
How can someone be this delusional?
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>>333421254
>WoD higher than anything. How fucking new are you?
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>>333421689
>Not enjoying best game of decade because of slightly old engine
Why live anon?
>>
>>333420434

>Fallout 4 equal to Fallout 3
You're wrong, it's substantially worse.
>>
>>333421254
>mop on par with vanilla
>wod that high
>>
>>333421996
Questing was food, fagsquat.
>>
>>333422390
The questing that took less than a day you mean?
>10 hours of content is fine for an MMO
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>>333422042
>he fell for the 'Fallout 4 is bad' meme
top kek
>>
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https://youtu.be/bKJSC_mteIg
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>>333422812
Sure as hell ain't New vegas levels of good.
>>
>>333422812
The problem isn't that it is 'bad' as a standalone. The problem is that it is worse than its predecessors.
If fallout 4 was the first fallout game it would be great, but its not, so its just a shallow and uninspiring game.
>>
>>333422912
As someone who hasn't played any Guild Wars, explain to me what Heart of Thorns did so wildly incorrectly.
>>
>>333423259

Its what it didn't do, which is to say just about everything.
>>
>>333422812
>>333423063
>>333422974
but it is bad. I ve played every fallout there is, even BoS. There is no meme, it is simply the Skyrim of the fallout series.
>>
>>333423259
Grinding added behind grind wall,
Full expansion that only add four new maps with rewards being bags with more bags inside of them.
You have to grind 58 million exp if you want all masteries unlocked,
Almost no new armor and weapon sets in game, everything getting released in the cash shop, but to get weapon skins, you have to get tickets for them, which only drop from RNG chests that you have to buy keys on the cash shop OR rarely drop in game with a 0,0000000001% drop rate.
Whole expansion storyline can be done in less than one hour and half,
>>
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>>333422042
For all of Fallout 4's faults, it's still miles better than that turd Fallout 3.
>>
>>333421254
Why do people think MoP was on par with any other expansion other than cata? The only decent raid for heroic content was Throne of Thunder. Everything else was pure trash.
>>
>>333425336
this

you memers need to just stop
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>>333422812
voltaire was fucking right

just shut it down
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>1 not the highest
>4 not worse than 3
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>>333420434
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>>333424681
Is doom 64 that good ? Still have the old cartridge but I've never played it Because i was scared of first person shooters when i was a kid
>>
>>333427250
It is, the level design are superb. It's basically Doom 1 with a spooky atmosphere that puts 3 to shame and the super shotgun added.

You're better off playing Doom 64 EX for PC, though.
>>
>>333426119
3 is an absolute abomination. From the writing, to the gameplay, to the artstyle; there isn't a single redeeming factor to be found. At least 4 has functional gameplay, colors that aren't puke green, and power armor that isn't just generic clothing with a stat boost.
>>
>>333426948
Super should be down there with Sticker Star.
>>
>>333427250
It's good. If i remember, there's a way to turn a Doom 64 N64 rom into a .WAD and play it on pc with keyboard and mouse.
>>
>>333421254
>MoP that high
>Cata that low

end it
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>>333427679
nope
>>
>>333427575
>>333427709
Awesome. I played Doom and Doom II some years ago and have been wanting to play some Wolfenstein/doom again.
Thanks guys. Guess I'll pop the cartridge and get on PC when the N64 controller will piss me off. iirc you have to use the dpad so that's fucking awkward
>>
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>>333428382
this is right anon
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>>333422020
>old engine

Old isn't the problem. The problem is that the game is fucking busted because of it.
>>
>>333428839
Honestly replaying Bloodborne a year later it's right up there with DeS and DaS for me. Fantastic game.
>>
>>333421254
>vanilla 10
>tbc 8

I wear the nostalgia goggles and these are the numbers I read
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>>333429183
Shit my eyesight bad
Let me fix that
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>>333429183
Third gen should definetely be higher up, it introduced way too much stuff and improved on most of the issues, plus it had an interesting story and the legendaries felt powerful. I am currently replaying all the games, never played bw/bw2, doing that now and can't too much into them. Somehow I don't feel the magic of 4th 5th gen games.
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>>333420434
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>>333429961
Halo 2 was a shit, one was way better.
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>>333420434

XCOM 2 is still a disappointment though.
>>
>>333430827
The bureau wasn't that bad tbqh, it just wasn't a turn based strategy and at least it revived the series by letting 2k know people wanted more turn based strategy xcom
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>>333431190
The bureau was terrible. It failed on every level.
>>
>>333431190
at least it revived the series by letting 2k know people wanted more turn based strategy xcom

Not true, Jake Solomon wanted to make a XCOM remake the day he joined Firaxis in the early 2000's. Development of XCOM: EU started in 2007, XCOM: The Bureau (Or what it used to be) was announced in 2010.
>>
>>333431190
Generic cover based third person shooter mixed with a lot of idle time listening to characters drone on about absolutely nothing interesting. I had such high hopes and it stomped them into the floor.
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>>333432130
>I had such high hopes and it stomped them into the floor.
Well theirs the problem.
>>
>>333429961
>ODST higher than 3
Literally why, ever?
>>
3 is better than 4.
>>
I wish someone who played the witcher games would make one
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>>333429961
>odst higher than 3
intothetrash.jpg
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>>333432637
Maybe if 3 was your first Fallout game and you were 12 when it came out.
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>>333429680

>pokemon red and gold that high

maybe firered and heart gold but the originals werent as good
>>
>>333432750
Or if he likes actual RPGs.
>>
>>333432708
For me it would be hard to rank. I loved all three, but each for wildly different reasons.
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>>333433095
Funny joke.
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>>333433095
Fallout 3 had rocket propelled grenades?
>>
>>333426689
>no story IWD higher than both BGs

See, I could understand if you're rating on mechanics, but your highest score was Torment, which was all story and no mechanics.
>>
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>>333428382
I don't understand how people can have such vehement hate for DS2. I mean, yeah, it's worse than 1, but not by THAT much.
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>>333429961
>reach that low
>reach not being on par with halo 1

opinion discarded
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>>333424681
>DOOM 2 below DOOM 1
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>>333420434
>Fallout 2 better than 1

Fallout 2 is too long meme-tier dialogs garbage, I fucking hate it

1>NV>3>4>Tactics>Brotherhood Of Steel>>>>>>>>2
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>>333420548
2 is shit anon
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>>333424681
Doom 3 is fucking good you faggot
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>>333421254
I don't understand how anyone who played from the start can put Vanilla over TBC, there were some memorable and fun things in vanilla but jesus, those 40mans. And the PVP got so stale. AV was a shitshow by the time BC came out.
>>
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>>333420576

You missed a little something on the template.
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>>333429680
Ruby>all
>>
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At this point I just want the franchise to die with what little dignity it has left.
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>>333420434
Personal opinion.
>>
>>333435174
was the last one really that bad?
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>>333435605
Yes, in a lot more ways then one.
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>>333435174
rottr is one of the best in the series retard. just because its not on ps4 doesn't mean you have to shit on it to please your sony overlords
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>>333422912
fuck you for reminding me of the abomination that GW2 is.
My memories of GW will stay pure and uncorruptible, and I will cherish them until I die.
This I swear.
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>>333435181
>Personal opinion
Thank you for clarifying. I don't know what we would have done without you pointing out the obvious.
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>>333435885
Fuck off shill no one likes your game, even the normies are starting to hate it.
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>>333435885
>David Cage's Gears of War
>best TR game
Nah.
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>>333435991
NP, mon ami. Always glad to help.
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>>333435174

>TR1 that low

kys, my man
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>>333436220
In relation to the other games, yes.
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>>333420434
I'd say 4 belongs further down for not being an RPG
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>>333436035
>normies are starting to hate it
>8.0 user score on normiecritic

end yourself.
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>>333435973
[TRIGGER WARNING]
>>
>>333420434

holy shit that chart is bad
>>
>>333429105
> replaying bloodborne
Good joke anon, you almost got me
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>>333436486
Worst $50 I have ever spent on a video game. Please stop rubbing it in.
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>>333436486
fuck off furious fernando
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>>333436129
>SMG 1 and 2 at different heights
>Sunshine that high
>NSMB higher than NSMBWii
My autism is getting triggered real bad
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>>333429961
Halo 6 buddys confirmed
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>>333436370
You first.
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>>333436486
I hate this guy so much
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>>333428382
Funny.

I got Dark Souls II the other day and hadn't played any others and I thought it was awful.
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Have only played the first game of the Prime trilogy so I can't rate the 3D games yet.
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>>333437286
>less players than release month are somehow equivalent to people hating it

nigga i finished the game like 3 weeks ago and haven't touched it since. doesn't mean i hate the game retard.

like i said, end yourself. you're using up valuable oxygen.
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>>333436390
>1-3 are trash
>MW2 is only a 6
get out
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>>333437838
What about 1?
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>>333437879

I don't own a 360, so I've never played it.
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>>333437637
Rise of the Tomb Raider isn't even a fucking Tomb Raider. You should be the one killing yourself for liking a shooty-shooty casual as fuck game that requires no thinking. I think Call of Duty is more your speed senpai.
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>>333438307
nigger please
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>>333438093
>gets proven wrong a second time
>b-but its n-not a tomb raider
>g-go play call of dooty

nice damage control, retard
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>>333437838
>Not putting saints row 4 at 10/10
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>>333438242
This is not accurate
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>>333438552

nice opinions, faglord
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>>333438412
First of all if you look at the graph posted, only about 44,000 people were playing at peak. Hardly anyone fucking even bothered playing it. Second of all, fuck off shill. No one's buying your shit. Just accept that you're a bunch of fucking retards who can't into making legit Tomb Raider games, but shooters that happens to have a protagonist that just so happens to be called Lara Croft. You're a fucking disgrace to the series and I hope you get Syphilis.
>>
>>333438016
right answer
>>
>>333438242
I agree with you apart from AC3.
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>>333438353
It's the truth my afrikaner friend.
>>
>>333438420

I was regretting my purchase of The Division earlier today... but you just reminded me it could have been much worse. I could have bought THPS 5.

>thanks anon.
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>>333438597
Sorry to take out your precious skyward and put your ocarina of autism on his place :^)
>>
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>>333421254
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>>333438420
>Underground above any Pro Skater

Underage reeks from you.
>>
>>333438741

nigga wut

my ranking is TP > OOT/MM >WW > SS
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>>333438552
>TP > OoT
wut
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>>333438843
I don't give a shit about the stories they started putting in, I'm talking from a gameplay perspective.
So yes, Underground is better in gameplay than the earlier Pro Skaters.
>>
>>333438597
>>333438893

What? Ocarina acts as the base upon which the others are improvements, but the one which is the most clear direct upgrade of Ocarina is Twilight Princess, so Twilight Princess goes just above Ocarina. From there, Wind Waker and Majora's Mask are closely tied since they approach the core gameplay appeal of Zelda in different ways. The main appeal of the origian Zelda was freedom, and Wind Waker emphasizes geographic exploration while Majora's Mask emphasizes optional sidequests over the mandatory dungeons. Majora's Mask narrowly beats out Wind Waker by employing a cerebral edge in its' utilization of the literary theme of fate.
>>
>>333438852
>:^)
>>
>>333438654
what happened to your "normies hate it" stance? nice way to dodge the original argument asswipe. your opinion was discarded a long time ago when you couldn't even keep to the same original argument you put forth.

now please fuck off with your shitty and irrelevant opinions.
>>
>>333434030
You can either put DeS, DaS1, and BB on the same tier (10) or put them DaS>BB>DeS.
>>
>>333439098
You have to be 18+ to post here.
>>
>>333434378
switch placement of 1 and 2 and this is accurate
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>>333439098
The normies that did play it didn't like it. Learn2read shill. Oh wait, you're probably not getting paid enough for that ;^)
>>
>>333429961
>ODST better than 3 or Reach
>Raech not on par with 1
>3 not the highest
>>
>>333438698

I acknowledge that I am in the minority on my liking of AC3, but its' actually my personal favorite of the series. The key word there, though, is "personal". It is my PERSONAL favorite because I PERSONALLY relate to Ratonhnhaké:ton due to similar backstory and personality, and the historical subject matter is my PERSONAL favorite out of the topics covered so far in the series because I PERSONALLY love US revolutionary history.
>>
>>333439024
>Twilight Princess = "improvement"
>newer graphics plus dull gimmicks plus soulless storytelling = better gameplay!
You have a lot to learn about what makes video games good, my friend.
>>
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>>333420434
>>
>>333439510
Well personally I think you're a fag.
>>
>>333439098
>Tombs are optional and side content
>First person shooter
>What "puzzles" exist are no more complicated then flicking a light switch
>Lara's been downgraded to an average looking, small in stature mouth breathing retard who's apparentely gotten her second breast reduction surgery in a row
>Game only lasts 10 hours or so
>Shallow as fuck
>Challenges are fucking easy as fuck to find and complete
>Shit story
>Shit characters
Quiet easily a worse Tomb Raider then Angel of Darkness. At least that game actually tried to be a Tomb Raider game.
>>
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>>333420434
I had a dream of my wife. She was dead. But it was all right.
>>
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>>333439223
>10 year old telling other not to use an 18+ site
kek

>>333439371
>t-they didn't like it
see >>333436370


feels good putting all these deluded dumbfucks down
>>
>>333436621
Kek
>>
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>>333420434
Sadly the games got only worse and worse, even though I enjoyed the heck out of all of them
And we do not talk about Frontier EVER
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>>333439371
But the game was made specifically for normies, and normies happily eat up garbage.
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>>333439718
>Casuals like it, that must mean it's good!
See >>333439634
Man, it feels good putting all these deluded dumbfucks down.
>>
>>333439563

I see anons say that TP is "Ocarina but more" every single day on here. Let's see if the board agrees with that assessment.

https://www.strawpoll.me/7300740
>>
>>333439634
finally someone to actually put a valid opinion on the table concerning the game and not some "its shit because these imaginary normies dont like it". nice one mate
>>
>>333438328
bioshock infinite and beyond are garbage.
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>>333435792
i always thought that they scraped what really made TR fun the raiding and all, i played the last game and it only felt like a uncharted tryhard clone, wich done well could have been great, but i see they fucked up
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>>333439878
It's so bad even normies are getting disgusted by it.
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here is one with only mother
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>>333439868
I'm with you on this.
I keep seeing people say that Jak 2 is the best in the series, but that's fucking wrong.
Jak and Daxter will always be the best and it's still a great game.
>>
>>333439868
6.5 for Jak 3 is a bit harsh, but other than that pretty correct
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here is another one with m + wannabes
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>>333439939
Depends on what you mean by "upgrade". Is there an option for "more modern graphics but everything else is worse?" Because I want to vote that.
>>
>>333422912

This is very accurate
>>
>>333439575
warioland 4 and warioworld were fuckin amazing games senpai
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>>333439918
>hes suddenly saying "casuals like it" literally 5 mins after he said casuals(can be referred to as normies) hate it

KEK
>>
>>333439980

I consider Infinite to be of about equivalent quality to 2, but with better waifu bait.

The DLCs are a clusterfuck in terms of narrative coherence, but I liked seeing Rapture pre-fall, so the first one gets an "okay" rating from me. The second one has no excuse, though, thus why I had the stick figure bleeding from gritting his teeth so much.
>>
>>333440061
I always rated 2 higher as a kid, but I bought the HD trilogy recently and completed the games at 100%, and I agree now
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>>333428382
the most accurate one
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>>333440226
Wario World was above-average but not amazing, WL4 was amazing but is just barely edged out by WL3
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>>333440267
>I consider Infinite to be of about equivalent quality to 2
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I ain't making a fucking chart, but:

Halo 3 > Halo 2 = ODST > Halo: CE = Halo: Reach > actual dogshit > Halo 5 > all things present past and future in all of existence other than halo 4 > Halo 4
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Haven't really played the first and latest call of duty's
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>>333420434
>obsidianiggers
>>
>>333435174
consider suicide if you genuinely consider angel of darkness above anything
>>
>>333440434
This. 2 is fucking incredible. and Minevera's den is amazing.
>>
>>333435882
i definitely agree with this list, though i genuinly hate codename agent 47so id have a exaggerated really low starting point
>>
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>>333440142
>undertale
>better than anything
>>
Is Fallout 4 worth 27 bucks? It's at that price on cdkeys right now.
>>
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>>333436636
>System Shock better than System Shock 2

Get a load of the hipster.
>>
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>>333440601
yeah i fucked up a bit, here it's fixed.
>>
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>>333440061
I can see youre a true fan of the J&D franchise, my brother

>>333440116
Yeah when I posted it I kinda felt it too
Should at least be 7 I guess (7.5 maybe?)
>>
>>333434524
PvP was a shitshow from day one.

High Warlords and Grand Marshalls were literally just teenagers who AFK'd all day while they were at school. Hardly anyone who achieved the highest PvP ranks actually sat at their computer and earned it because no one wanted to compete in the cluster fuck that was called PvP.
>>
>>333440450
pretty accurate. id bump up black ops 2 based on it has the most refined multiplayer by far out of all the games. the campaign was shit though

campaigns:
cod4 > mw2 = waw > blackops> mw3
all the other campaigns are too shite to even talk about

multiplayer
black ops 2 > black ops = mw2 > cod 4 (aged badly imo) > waw
and everthing else isnt worth mentioning
>>
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>>333435174
The worst part is that the success of the new games means they will be what the public associates the franchise with while the actually Tomb Raider games are forgotten.
>>
>>333440263
>That's the same person
>>333440508
>Rise of the Tomb Raider
>Better then Angel of Darkness
Angel of Darkness had breast physics. Check mate Crystal Dynamics.
>>
>>333440843
yeah 7.5 it is imo
>>
>>333440450
I played CoD until MW3 so I agree 100% with you on that part (4>WAW<MW2=BO>MW3)
>>
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>>333440617
Not yet AFAIK.
>>
>>333440828
>space funeral lower than the other two shitstains
>earthbound lower than its trite derivative spawn
drink bleach
>>
>>333440828
Why OFF so low?
It had interesting world and was more original than most of the rest.
>>
>>333437583
>Metroid 2 higher than 1
Finally someone gets it
I think Zero Mission and Fusion are better than Super, but your opinion is respectable
>>
>>333441135
>lisa and undertale are bad
>>>reddit
>>
>>333437919

>2 worse than 1

Take your nostalgia goggles off. 2 was the high point of the series that vastly improved upon 1.
>>
>>333440617
Wait until it drops to $10.
>>
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>>
>>333439510

>similar backstory and personality,
>similar personality to Edgy brooding eternal teen

I hate you already and I never met you.
>>
>>333438242
>Liberation better than Unity
>Liberation better than anything

I thought the Tyranny was shit too, and I liked AC3
>>
>>333441167
and engaging combat that didn't got old with the time and didn't became mindlessly boring.
>>
>>333420434
>>333420521
>>333420745
>>333420878
I will never get this meme.
>>
>>333427679
no that's actually where your taste belongs.
>>
>>333441124
So far Fallout 4 is a decent first person shooter and terrible RPG. I'm waiting for the Harbor DLC to see if that will change, and we stop getting cash grab DLC's.
>>
>>333441540

Donte DmC was DMC2 level of bad at least.
>>
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Rayman 2 remains GOAT tier to this day
>>
>>333441723
kill yourself redditard memelord
>>
>>333440142
I'm waiting for people to shitpost on this one.

I agree though, even if you're trying to bait
>>
>>333441549

Not his edginess, no, I hated that. His introversion, his being blinded by principal, and the fact that his lifes' mission was defined by early childhood trauma were the kind of things that made him relateable to me.
>>
>>333421254
Well i'm not going to lie like the faggot you are. it's obvious you must have joined in MoP to have such shitty opinions. Seriously rating WoD and MoP that high.

Can't say anything for vanilla but i'd say BC-8,wotlk-9-cata 4, MoP 4 and WoD 3.

Legion is shaping up to maybe be a 5
>>
>>333441790
Origins and Legends are fucking amazing tho
>>
>>333440450
Added some space at the bottom for the new one coming out this autumn
>>
>>333438420
>THUG 2 worse than THUG 1
Killyourself my man
>>
>>333442038
The levels weren't as good.
>>
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It never recovered
>but m-muh generatio-
Nope. Still shit. All it does is remind you of better games.
>>
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>>333441790
>That chart
Patrician taste, friend
>>
>>333438242
I was looking for an AC version and I really don't understand your stupid ratings. You fucked it all up.
>>
>>333438552
MM=OOT>WW>>>>>>>>Literal human shit>>>>>TP
>>
>>333442314
Sonic the hedgehog was a fucking masterful remake you pleb
>>
>>333438420
Switch the height of THPS4 & THUG2 with THUG1 and you're about right
>>
>>333436636
I don't know too much about system shock but I'm glad bioshock infinite is where it belongs
>>
Well >>333442658, you might want to see my explanation at >>333439024
>>
>>333440450
>CoD history

Starts at 4
Oh boy, the underage
>>
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>>333436636
>SS better than SS2¨
>Implying the original Bioshock isn't better than both of the SS games
Cmon nigger, you can do better than that
>>
>>333442658
OOT > WW
You can't possibly think that, can you?
>>
>>333442549
I've only seen Leddites use that rating system.
>>
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>>
>>333430770
fuck you now I'm sad
>>
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>>333439868
I still I don't understand why ND went full edge after Jak 1
>>
>>333442823
Your explanation is alright, but you forget one major issue.

Literally TP better than any other Zelda game? Are you high son?
>>
>>333438552
So the contrarian hipster's ranking then
>>
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>>
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>>333440392
>>333440442
>26 seconds apart
>>
>>333443114
It's literally just "Ocarina but more". So yes, it is a direct upgrade from Ocarina.

>>333443228
Again, I would, redirect you to >>333439024
>>
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>>333443113
I still ask this question myself to this very day
The Precursor Legacy was/is a fucking top notch platformer with its unique style, flow and theme
Why Naughty Dog didn't expand on it I don't know. They just went full retard I guess.
>>
>>333443614
They started that whole "we need to make mature games for mature gamers" thing that only got worse in the PS3 era
I want a real Jak 4
They still make fine games, but that mentality is so fucked
>>
>>333429680
Diamond is a 9 for me but otherwise this is correct
>>
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>>333443560
it's zelda trying to be edgy and dark, it sucks so much. Twilight princess was so bad it put me off zelda games. They will never top MM/OOT/WW ever.
>>
>>333428382
Completely correct
>>
>>333441362
>lisa and undertale are better than all three Mother games
>>>an hero
>>
>>333443560
More like "Ocarina with slightly less ugly graphics and all the soul taken out."
>>
>>333443716
>We need more realism
>We need more maturity
>We need more shooting mechanics
>We need to simplify everything
Fuck modern AAA games.
>>
>>333443917
I didn't compare them to mother games you meme loving fuck
>>
>>333443312
3 is that bad?
Still never tried or watched anything of it
>>
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>>333436129
>SM 2 better than SBM 3
>Super Mario Bros Ds better than SMB Wii
>>
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The Combat has been Evolved
Earth will Never be the Same
Finish the Fight
If They Want war, We'll Give Em' War
Prepare to Drop
Remember Reach
Wake Up John
Hunt The Truth
>>
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>>333443614
I think it might be how they didn't want to be known for "kiddy platformers" even if they were fucking amazing at it

>"Mature games for mature audiences"
>>
>>333440142
some of the worst taste i've seen in awhile
>>
>>333420434
Fallout 3 is better rated than NV though. Still nice try, hipster.
>>
>>333444176
>reach mp
>that high

Shit was awful
>>
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BF: BC2 was/is/will always be my favorite BF
>>
>>333420434
>Fallout 3 is worse than Fallout 2

You can't be serious
>>
>>333444459
it's a relative chart.

Halo 4 Multiplayer and halo 5 campaign make everything else look somewhat good by comparison.
>>
>>333444497
>battlefield 3 being better than battlefield 4

but that's completely wrong.
>>
>>333434378
Absolutely perfect, but peace Walker and portable ops should both be lower
>>
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>>333444176
>implying reaches multiplayer was good
>putting Halo 3 that low
>implying Halo 5 multiplayer isn't total dogshit
>implying Halo 2 singleplayer isn't a fucking mess
>even having Halo 4 higher than Halo 3 singleplayer
>That middling score for ODST

holy fuck every single opinion you have is wrong
>>
>>333444424
>the normies are right!
Sure they are...
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