Gentlemen, how do we fix Bayonetta? How do we save Smash Bros. from this menace?
She got patched, you white faggot.
>>333300653
Just add a Lumen Sage to balance it out.
>>333300794
She still has touch of death combos and witch time is still incredible you fucking mongoloid.
>>333300849
Ayyyyyyyyyyy
Forget that, Bayonetta is perfectly balanced.
Let's focus on the real problem, Corrin. Even after her recent nerf she can kill at 0%
You learn to adapt and DI you little smash 4 baby
>>333301812
The bayonetta player can just read the opponent's di and adapt accordingly.
>>333301994
>why is my opponent winning when he outplays me
>>333302649
>Gets proven wrong
>Resorts to le ebin green text meme
Pathetic.
All those Bayonettas in top 32
The real question is why are you playing a shitty """fighting""" game
Stop playing games you're bad at if you're gonna get this salty.
>>333300653
We turn off Sm4sh, put it into the most appropriate container where it belongswhich is the garbage binthen boot up the gamecube and play MAYLAY BAYBEE
>>333300653
Maybe if you retards didn't bitch and moan about Shiek, Bayonetta wouldnt be a problem.
>still making autists salty after all these years
>>333302990
No, he's saying that reading DI is not a death combo
>>333303381
Bayoneetta is so perfect
Obviously the game is balanced around getting items. You faggots gotta stop turning off the wild card.
>>333303490
Except it is a death combo if you read the di. Stop being wrong please.
>>333303310
What? Sheik's position in the game had and has nothing to do with Bayonetta having dumb zero to deaths that are damn near un DI-able.
>>333301994
Pretty much the only way to escape the combos quickly is to DI down and away
It's not hard to read your opponent's DI when they can only viably do it in a single direction.
>>333300653
Remove zero to death after a certain point in the combo. (switch knockback or whatever)
Lower insane hitstop and priority on every fucking move.
>>333300653
Just play as Ike and go on the defense.
>>333304247
Does Ike counter Bayo? I've noticed I haven't had as much trouble against Bayo as most people have lately, I figured it was just because /v/kend scrubs are bad at Bayonetta. I still get destroyed by Kamui though.
>>333303662
...but it isnt. The definition of a death combo is that you don't need to read DI
>>333303662
Just telling you what he was saying, dumbfuck
>>333304576
>, I figured it was just because /v/kend scrubs are bad at Bayonetta. I still get destroyed by Kamui though.
Speaking of whichanyone want a small /v/kday tourney?Bored as fuck here. And I wanna shulk with you guys.
>>333304189
Priority barely exists in Smash
>>333300653
Give every other character kill set-ups and abc combos.
>>333304890
>The definition of a death combo is that you don't need to read DI
Your shitty opinions dont count as a definition retard.
>>333305000
I'll play. Been getting my Solomar on point.
>>333305401
>Solomar
You, I like you. Solomar is fun as fuck.
>>333300653
Let her go back to Sony right where she belongs.
>>333303959
>inb4 someone figures out how to di properly
>then the bayo players learn how to zero to death with the DI in mind, essentially turning it into a 50/50
>>333300653
Some of her hitboxes are fucked which allow her to be better in footsies than she's supposed to be. Fix those and see what happens before going further.
>>333305180
Are you stupid?
If it's not garunteed, it's not a true combo, and therefore not a death combo. Do you think the Shiek 50/50 was a true combo? What about Uthrow > Thunder?
I want to worship a giant Bayonetta!
>>333306260
>That art
disgusting
>>333306036
So her having a touch of death combo that is essentially a con flip on whether you live or die is ok? Fuck off bayo scub faggot.
>>333300653
Not a smash wii u fag but curious anyway. Give me the details on this
>>333300653
you put dante in smash
>>333307017
She can zero to death with ease.
Witch time is fucking retarded and can kill you off of something as simple as a jab.
Trying to properly DI is a fucking nightmare.
>>333301525
Stop trying to hit with a fully charged PK Flash then and you'll stop wasting stocks.
>>333307017
A character that can put you into a series of 50/50s and kill you if she guesses right every time. Basically a SFIV character transplanted into tr4sh.
Scrubs can't DI and think she has 0-deaths
>>333303280
This. Bayonetta doesn't need fixing. The entire game does because it's garbage.
>Wahhhh nerf the fun characters
Get fucked fags.
>>333307365
>>333307475
So are a lot of so are a lot of people winning tournaments with her?
>>333307747
Unless Zero picks her up probably not because there is like 5 total people who actually put any effort into this game.
>>333307475
Found the bayonetta main.
>>333307747
She has almost no notable results aside from a jap tournament one of their best players took using her. Mewtwo right now has better results overall than bayo.
>All this crying about Bayo
>Out of the last 4 majors since her introduction, she's only placed in Top 8 ONCE
>that singular Top 8 appearance had her finish in 8th overall
But she's broken, amirite? Nevermind the fact that Pound was won by a Meta Knight that has been buffed to the point where most of his nasty Brawl bullshit works again, Bayo is the problem.
Even Spain banned the character already
>>333307915
I prefer 0-deathing shitters with Ryu.
>>333300653
You can't. The type of character she is the combos she has will always be OP. Only option is it take away the kill potential of Bair, Nair, and Uair.
>>333308104
>Haha guys look I beat a 10 year old on for glory I'm so good at this game!
>>333307956
It's because none of the superior players are using her. Get ZeRo or Nairo to main her and they'll dominate tournies left and right
>>333307956
Pre-patch Diddy and Luigi were broken as fuck and they barely appeared in top 8.
What's your point?
And the fact the she already gets top 8 at nationals with some MDVA shitter says something
Literally only thing she needs is to have witch time REMOVED
Or at least make it scale on the activating attack's power. Fuck the fact that a damn zair can freeze you in the air for 3 full seconds
>>333308104
Is this the power of Bidoof tech?
>>333307846
>>333307919
Then you lot should stop bitching or pick her up and win a tournament.
A character who's potential hasn't even been exhibited on the tournament level and yet all these casuals are begging for her to be fixed. You guys are actually pathetic
>>333305634
>crying_beanie_man.png
>>333308729
I think only Pink Fresh and Salem has done any good stuff with her yet, and even better than them is 9B or something like that, some Japanese dude.
>>333308729
No need to tell me that mang.
In theory she's not great
In practice she gets blown up
Yet all these shitters want her banned because they can't into DI.
>>333308476
Pre-Patch Diddy won every major for months and months thanks to ZeRo.
How many times in the early days of Sm4sh were we "treated" to either a winners or grand finals of a Diddy Ditto? It wasn't until he got nerfed that we finally got some diversity in the form of ZSS and Shiek. And then we only got Shiek and ZSS
>>333307587
But every Sm4sh character is more fun than Super Fox Bros.
>>333306484
Did I say that, faggot?
>>333309054
Negative. Playing as any melee character is loads of fun as there are limitless possibilities to what you can do in any situation.
>>333306484
Also
>When the guy whining that a character us too strong calls someone else a scrub
Develop counterplay, pick Bayo, suck it up, or advocate for a ban (which would be fucking ridiculous at this point until she starts winning 40% of all Smash 4 money like MK did).
>>333309014
There were rarely Diddy dittos in GF when he was broken.
Also ZeRo wins every major because he's godlike at the game, he even wins with current Diddy
>>333309272
Negative. The only character who has "limitless possibilities" in Melee is Fox. Everyone else has exactly one "possibility", which is to lose to Fox.
>>333307474
What Ness would ever be in range for that to possibly happen?
Fuck your counter though.
>>333309572
Found the bayonetta main.
>>333308594
No, its just Ryu's u-tilt chain lock. It needs to be SDI'd out of or otherwise you're stuck.
>>333309737
Palu main actually. Just not a scrub.
>>333309612
Yeah, that's why Hungrybox keeps winning majors with Puff
>>333309612
>the guy who's never played melee
Was I talking about winning tournaments? I believe the topic was playing and having fun.
Playing as fox actually sucks if you're not insanely good with him. You'll find the game isn't necessarily on easy mode and you have to think a lot faster than if you played another character and lighting times faster than your smash wii u games.
Get over it, melee is more fun of a game
>>333300653
Is she winning tourneys left and right like pre-patch Sheik? Wait, she isn't? THEN FUCK OFF
>>333309972
And theres the damage control attempt
>>333310025
Majority of the tournaments had ZeRo's Diddy winning in GFs so you're wrong.
>>333310048
lol sure faggot
Just pretend that everyone who's not bawling with you is a Bayo main.
Players these days are fucking children, I swear to god.
>>333310389
Cry harder shitlord
>>333310443
I'm not the one crying.
>>333310165
But what about Hypespotting and Pound where ZeRo didn't even attend and Bayo was nowhere to be found?
>>333310793
Did those tournaments have 9B or Komokiri?
Also Pound still had a Bayo in top 8 despite him being some average ass MDVA player
>>333310735
???
Try using an item or getting the Smash Ball haha
>>333303173
let me get that for you jacko
Bayonetta deserves to be the best character in the game. Bayonetta dittos are a 1000% more entertaining then any matches Sheik was ever involved in. Its about time that Smash 4 matches were entertaining to watch in the same vein as melee matches are, and Bayonetta brings just that. Her weaknesses were told of and explained, if scrubs can't exploit them then they deserve to get crushed by her.
>>333305634
The worst version of Bayo is the ps3 one. If anything the best Bayo 1 is on WiiU.
>>333300653
bayonetta doesn't need fixing and smash is beyond fixing
>>333303613
That she does not exist in our imperfect plane of reality...
BAYO IS BROKEN AND TOXIC
t. Brawl Meta Knight main
>>333314096
Bayo 1 has framedropson Wii U.
>>333314428
Same on 360
Wii U version has the costumes giving it the edge.
>>333314428
PS3 is 30fps with drops
360 and Wii U are 60 with minor drops but Wii U has bonus content and no screen tearing.
>like bayonetta
>don't want to seem like a tierfag
>can't play as her anymore without salt
>>333314875
>giving a shit about tiers
The whole point is to play as your favorite character
Listen, I'm going to try and tell you something because I've probably been doing this thing longer than you and I want you to understand. You aren't going to listen to me but I want to try and tell you anyways.
Whining accomplishes absolutely fucking nothing. Whining about a game's best character and waiting for a patch or a ban to fix your W/L rate is--without a doubt--scrub behavior.
Instead, you should be focusing on one of two options:
A. Developing counterplay. Even Brawl MK didn't win every tournament. Outside of some kind of theoretical bullshit game, every game's best character is still beatable. This should include studying the matchup hardcore--you need to understand where your character has advantages, what the other character can and cannot actually get away with at what percents/situations, what your options are, and what their options are to counter those--but can also include picking up a secondary who does better against the character in question (you still have to understand the matchup).
B. Picking up the character yourself. No one gets to the top with poor tools. A game is always going to have a best character, and any time you're not picking it, you're handicapping yourself. That's not to say that it's a bad thing, but you have the choice the same as everyone else to pick that character on the character select screen, and any time you don't, you're accepting that disadvantage. If you're just in it to do the best you can with the character you like, that's fine, but you have to accept that it's a poor choice if you're trying to win.
Anything other than these two options is the very definition of scrub. Rather than improving yourself, you're just finding excuses about why you're not doing well and that will get you fucking nowhere. If you have this mentality, then even if Bayo gets patched or banned, you will still not improve any as a player. You need to find an actual solution, not wait for an outside force to solve it for you.
>>333300849
Isn't that just Pit though?
>>333314875
Embrace the salt.
If the scrubs weren't complaining that you main a top tier, they would be complaining about any little cherrypick from any character you choose, or say that you are a lifeless drone who spends 100 hours a day training.
>>333315845
No, Pit is just an angel general.
>>333301994
smash players everyone. Opponent outplaying by being smart instead of relying on ball mechanics and positioning= nerf or ban.
>>333314875
winning is more fun than being a salty loser/ being in skill purgatory anon. this applies to every game.
>>333316096
>getting kills of of easy as fuck to setup 50/50s is "skill"
Found the bayonetta main.
>>333316367
nah I main zss, bayonetta is 2nd.
Winning is fun.
>>333316367
And sheik didn't get nearly this level of hate when she had that.
Even though her neutral was free as fuck.
>>333316614
Full on damage control
pathetic.
>>333316771
Sasuga shitposter
>>333316872
Sick burn, autismo.
>>333303173
>>333303173
Agreed
Let me get that for you jacko
>>333316771
Anon we're talking about game mechanics, not personal issues like your pride. Next youre gonna tell me fireballs are cheap.
>>333316614
Now ZSS is someone who cannot be defended.
She is probably the most boring character to fight as or against in the game.
>>333314875
>like Little Mac
>find him super fun
>mfw can't play as him cause of huge salt at locals and online
I know that feel bro
>>333317004
You should have seen the sick rugburn I gave your mom last night
>>333317123
>Getting salty at free wins
What?
>Spain just hard banned Bayonetta
Now watch the rest of Europe and eventually US do the same
>>333317114
That may be, but for a game to be competitive you gotta take any advantage of all advantages.
I play traditional fighters and rarely this game, and the only character that was ever banned was Super Turbo akuma because he had no weaknesses and was near impossible to even touch. Bayonetta is nowhere near that level of broken.
>>333317350
They lose to my mac, not cause I am especially good but because they have issues with the MU. Got sent to FG hell 4 times online too.
>>333314875
>wanted her in
>stoked as fuck at the announcement
>died a little inside when they said her frames were shit
>still gonna use her regardless
>turns out her mediocre startup doesnt matter a whole lot
>Gloryhole is always mad as fuck
>local players dont really mind since most are aware a good character can only take a bad player so far
Fun times. The only thing I've noticed that people are universally not a fan of is a fresh Witch Time being able to completely fuck your shit off of any close range attack regardless of strength, and I cant say I disagree with that sentiment.
>>333308293
Pretty sure that's the majority of people in this thread, though.
>>333317474
>Spain
>Relevant
>>333317315
Oh look, it's the "I'll make up stories about how I fucked your mom" time.
Are you so mad, anon?
>>333317504
I was talking about ZSSamus.
And I just called her boring.
>>333308104
Wew lad
>>333317757
Your dad was sure mad when he came home and found me eight inches deep in your mom's ass
>>333317604
You're right they arent very relevant but it's enough to start serious proposals in other scenes
Fuck sonic and everyone who plays him. He needs to be removed, I don't give a shit how big of an icon he is.
As a Bayonetta main fuck the haters.
This character is so fucking fun to play as.
>Can kill string people
>Can fair people off the screen.
>Can witchtime edgeguard
>Sassy Taunts that can be canceled at the drop of a hat.
She's so fucking fun to play if you actually put time into learning her. Why would I stop using I character I love and have fun with because she's "Taboo" for some autistic fucking reason.
>>333318057
No one is going to ban a character irrelevant in their own scene because some foreign nation stumbled upon massive salt mines.
>>333318480
Delete that picture in this instant, you fucking asshole.
>>333318106
Just hold jab.
>>333314875
I'm on the same boat. I generally refuse to use any S-Tier/Top Three characters competitively against other people unless I'm salty. Thankfully Cloud isn't in that range
>extremely easy to pick up and play
>saw results almost immediately after release
>several players started doing better after picking up
Why haven't we banned this character yet?
>>333319472
He's good, but he's far from being a game breaking character.
>>333319472
his recovery is almost as bad as mac's, m2k has talked about clouds weaknesses, and if you aren't forcing cloud offstage you aren't fighting him right
>>333319994
Nowhere near as bad as Mac's. Still very exploitable. Falcon's is worse.
>>333301525
Are you fucking kidding?
Last patch practically murdered her
>>333318480
finally someone not an idiot.
>>333319789
People actually have the nerve to call bayonetta game breaking.
A fucking Brawl Metaknight main actually has the nerve to call Bayonetta game-breaking.
Bayonetta hasn't done nearly enough other than a few placings to be considered game breaking.
Notice how all the top players in America aren't picking her up just because Pink Fresh did.
Seriously it's exaggerated overhype.
>>333300653
>character patches
The internet ruined Smash Bros
>>333317945
O, well excuse my overreaction. Just wanted to relate back to the original topic.
>>333320674
>I want pre-patch diddy
>>333300653
You don't. You wait for Smash 4 nods to catch up and give the game the PM treatment to bring everyone up to her level.
If the Sm4sh characters played like they do in PM, and momentum was still in the game, then she wouldn't be so broken since she'd have a much harder time pulling off her single touch death combos.
>>333300653
>filename
typicalbaitfag
>>333307474
As a Puff/Ness player, I have to say that landing a PK Flash is much harder than landing a rest.
>>333305067
This sort of.
>>333321520
My shit main becomes somewhat viable if she just got a kill setup
I can't fucking tell you how many times in bracket I've had a solid percent lead then lost because I can't close out the stock reliably until like 130%
>>333300653
Make a new game based on smash where every character is as complex as bayo and ryu.
>>333320909
I kinda don't think we'll see a smash 4 mod on the same level of PM.
I mean yeah right now there's some annoying shit like Bayo but for the most part people are fine with the way Smash 4's meta has been progressing. PM felt more necessary because Brawl was fundamentally broken competitively, which Smash 4 obviously isn't despite some warts. I mean we just had a major won by Mewtwo.
>tfw Zelda will never ever be good
>>333321753
>what is dthrow to uair
Then again, I only play FG so what do I now?
>>333321753
Want to know the sad thing is? There is a way to give her kill confirms: by using Super Speed and Lightweight
oh wait they're customs which means they don't exist oopsfucking sakurai
>>333319994
His recovery is already way better by the simple fact that he can fend off gimpers with nair most of the time. Mac can just hope he lands the counter, which kills him most of the time anyway.
>>333322230
>what is DI
ass
>>333322408
Oh and also if he is knocked off camera Cloud can still recover most of the time as long as he got his double jump. For Mac it's already game over.
>>333322230
It's called DI, m8.
>>333322231
>Sakurai decided that the worst counter in the game should be her default Down B
I want to fucking die
>>333303613
>Bayoneetta
drawfags please
I think people should not bitch for patches and just work on their counter-picks.
I find Fox to eat Bayo alive.
I dunno what other people's opinions are on good anti-Bayo weapons though. But that'd be a much more productive discussion than WAHHH BAN/NERF.
>>333323267
>I find Fox to eat Bayo alive.
Based on what results? Please don't say FG. Not saying you're wrong, but I doubt he is that strong against her. And he is still vulnerable to her combos, and he is very light meaning witch time is way more dangeous.
>mfw grabing someone over 100% on the edge of the stage
(^:
MAKE HER A PS4 EXCLUSIVE
NINTENDO DOESN'T DESERVE HER
>>333323973
>not PC exclusive
Sonyggers everyone.
>>333317123
I used to get salty at Macs stupid insta-win B bullshit but Cloud's is like 3 times worse so Mac kinda fell off the salt chart for me. Also you can just gimp him so its not that hard to win.
>>333323941
>Ness is A tier with really only Rosalina keeping him down
>EZ wins
As if motherfags weren't bad enough already.
>>333317123
>main Mac
>mfw made a guy rage quit after I 2-stocked his Mario in winner's finals
I son't care about his reputation, I fucking love this character
>>333323267
Characters with good grab games and OoS options are the most obvious picks, probably. Grab beats WT and Bayo herself doesn't get much of of a grab until Fthrow kills at like 140% at the ledge.
>>333324242
Not to mention that Mac's KO punch can easily be swatted off like a fly. Cloud has his limit break the whole time so fighting him is so stressful because he's like a time bomb that will go off at any minute.
>>333304576
No
All characters that rely on spacing get destroyed by a Bayonetta that is willing to use witch time
>>333324253
He's been shit for 3 games, Ness deserved a buff.
I still prefer Lucas though, I find him more fun.
>>333323941
>actually using bthrow
At least in casual play I would never do that, too boring. PKT2 setups is way more fun
>>333300653
Make her counter have as much cooldown as the other counters and make it scale with the strength of the move so that it is actually reflects the risk/reward of the move used
>>333324513
You know who else has been shit for 3 games?
>>333324543
>not using reliable kill moves
>not using pk flash as the fun kill move
Get a load of this guy.
>>333324759
Link is shit in all four games, sorry buddy.
>>333324375
I think the worst part is his ability to charge it. Cloud players will always prioritize getting the LB charged. It puts stress on the opponent since they have to chase him around to try to stop it, and he gets easy punishes on approaches thanks to it AND it will probably be fully charged when he is attacked so he can follow up with a high damage side b that will also kill extremely early.
So you have this character that is extremely potent at camping AND in the neutral. If your character isn't any good at gimping then have fun getting shat on by any decent Cloud.
>>333308729
>>333308978
Bayonetta is literally casual filter.
>>333303381
daily reminder
>>333325157
I really don't get why everyone loves Shantae. The games are pretty damn mediocre.
>>333325157
Holy shit.
>>333324759
He was decent at launch
>>333325316
it's an autist thing, similar to sonic. people latching onto something random for whatever reason they conjure up
>>333324338
Wow. Been trying to get better as Mac myself but still have huge problems on BF, T&C and Smasheville. How do you find them? And how did the Mario ragequit?
>>333325316
Nah, you a fag. They're pretty good.
First one is one of the best GBC games period. RR is pretty meh, I'll admit, and Pirate's Curse is solid.
>>333325157
>muh obscure indie waifu
Come the fuck on. I liked Shantae but she isn't relevant in the least
>>333325316
>everyone
it's a small but very, very vocal group and getting a boner is enough for them to praise it as the best game ever
>>333300653
You mean Mewtwo?
Her highest placement was eight at pound
>>333323267
Maybe it's just because I main the character but I find Pit to be a good pick against Bayonetta, mainly because
He gets his damage by fast attacks and doesn't rely on spacing too much
his dash attack punishes her side b without risking getting hit by the second hitbox because pit moves very low and it has good range
his straight arrows go through her bullet shots so he doesn't need to worry about that
He has tons of fast multihit moves so that can possibly mess up her witch time
And the most important thing is that he has good damage on grabs, grab combos from low to mid and a kill throw which I think is all very important against bayonetta
It just sounds good to me and I've never had trouble against a Bayonetta with Pit
>>333325573
>>333325157
notice how the Shantae-supporter is a ponyfag
>>333300653
Drop Smash 4 and go back to Melee, that's how.
ITT
Bring her to ps4, we will happily take her
>>333320909
You misunderstand why PM got popular. It was a fluke. Nobody relevant gives a fuck about modding Smash 4
>>333325761
I fucking love Ryo Agawa's art so much.
>everyone thinks Bayo is now broken because ZeRo started bitching suddenly, even though she has zero meaningful tournament results, while Cloud had results within the same timeframe of his release
>>333301525
Maybe if you stopped spamming Warlock Punch or PK Thunder 2 her counter wouldn't be a problem.
Git gud.
>>333325840
>account based forums
ewww.
>>333325510
I don't have too many problems on BF. I have a bit of trouble on T&C and Ville since people know they can camp the platforms against Mac. I just try to be super offensive on those stages.
As for that Mario player, it was Bo5 and we were on Duck Hunt in the second game. On his last stock I dtilt > KO punched him. He paused the game, unplugged his controller, and said "fuck this garbage character and fuck this mechanic that rewards you for losing" and left, knowing we had more games to play.
>>333326241
>tfw all his complains about bayo apply perfectly to sheik
>I-I just happened to like the characters that were top tiers... for 3 generations and I dropped diddy after he got balanced
>b-but fuck bayo
>>333326472
>I dropped diddy after he got balanced
But he didn't.
>>333326436
Ouch. Guess he didn't like the MU. D-tilt to K.O Punch is stupid satisfying though. Good on you landing it, guessing super armour also caught him off a fair bit. Grats on the tourney win anyway.
>>333326436
>losing to Little Mac on Duck Hunt
Absolute scrub.
>>333326628
Actaully that was in winner's finals. A Captain Falcon ran through loser's and fucked me up in grands.
play sfv while the game is still new
>>333325316
I think Pirate's Curse stands out above the rest, but otherwise, I agree. The games are pretty mediocre. Still enjoyable, and I'm looking forward to HGH.
It's mostly just a vocal fanbase that think with their dick. I can't say I blame them either, because WayForward knows how to make some good fanservice.
>>333308104
Even knowing how to get out of it and realizing how little it actually does, that shit still annoys me to no end.
>>333324869
PK Flash as a edge guard is actually not that bad a tool. Use it to force people to recover away from it as a conditioning tool for later game edge play, against characters with a bad or vertical recovery you can even force them to SD or eat the attack and die.
>>333300653
how about you stop treating smash like a competitive fighting game and stop playing on omega levels with no items on.
>>333326847
As a Shantae fan who doesn't think the fanservice is great at all it confuses me everytime someone says this
Maybe it's a thing, I dunno, but Wayforward games aren't particularly sexy overall, but people talk like they're 2D Senran Kaguras
>>333326748
Oh. Surprised you couldn't take that. Little Mac's u-tilt 0-25%'s him and is absolutely brutal in keeping Falcon out, both his rush down and n-air/u-air approaches. Sorry to hear that, hope you mess him up next time.
>>333327452
>Competitive players play on Omegas
Almost never
Release Bayonetta 2 on the PS4.
How hard is it to air dodge a charged Bullet Climax when you're in the blast zone? Its one of my favorite ways to kill, but it just seems so easy to avoid with the fact that it needs half a second to charge up that I dont know why I get kills with it. Obviously it happens more in FG but even in locals I can get a few snipes in. Is there a reason people dont dodge that other than being bad?
BUFF WHEN?
>>333327134
I actually get the same number of kills from people messing up their recovery from pk flash as I do with pk flash.
>>333328309
I wish more high level Ness' would use it more often so I can get a feel for how to use it better. I know especially off stage Ness has way better options but I like how I can stay safe on the stage when I use it.
>>333328148
Never
Nerfs to both Marios when?
>>333328148
If they just give him more range on his jumps and recovery I'm happy. I love using Doc way more than Mario
>>333301525
You're terrible at the game. The only thing that can kill you at 0% is you.
>>333328849
Doc hardly deserves a nerf
>>333329089
Corrins counter can actually kill a lot of characters at zero depending on what move they use like a full charged Bowser fsmash or Ike's neutral B or etc.
>>333329397
>countering full charge neutral b kills
No shit.
>>333321753
She needs at least 1 fast tilt, faster down smash and a solid kill set up. Her bair and uair are already pretty sweet. Jab 1 is nice and fair is a nice footsie tool if used right and stylish kill option but hard to land when the opponent knows it's coming.
>>333329397
Yeah, fully charging a powerful smash like attack against a non stunned counter character is suicide. Hence you killed yourself. You deserved it.
>>333329397
Its doesnt do that anymore. It only has like 60% of its original comeback now.
Now Corn needs to have max rage to even come close to its original base power.
>>333329539
d-tilt is fairly lagless
>>333300653
git gud
>>333322204
Seriously I want to see a single zelda player or two in some tourneys.
Besides Mii fighters, she could be the most underused character in the game.
>>333329397
Not as strong anymore m8.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4baYazpE1Xg
>>333324759
He is designed to be played by 6 year olds. For that reason he will never be good
>>333324759
he's good if you spam projectiles properly
>>333329327
Yes they do
Nerf their smash attacks so that they aren't unpunishable and make them have more trouble killing than Duck Hunt and Sheik combined
Add like 20 frames of landing lag to all their aerials
Remove Mario's fludd because they just use it at random on the stage when it doesn't even do damage and it just pisses me off
Now both of them are fixed
i just want to know why half the roster has counters
>>333330326
to end melee button mashing gameplay and encourage reading and timing instead
>>333330279
So basically you suck against them and cry instead of git gud. perhaps SFV and it's casual nature would be more suited to you.
>>333324759
Use Toon Link. He is much better.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zYGEJDhZqjQ
>>333330279
>nerf this character because I don't like him
>>333330326
Seems to be mostly because your math teachers failed you.
>>333330526
Yes
Fuck Mario. He should be removed from the game
>>333330279
>pick Cloud
>win because you simply outrange them
It's that easy
>>333330427
>melee button mashing
(You)
What is DI and how do I do it?
>>333330795
>Pick Mario
>flick the c stick up until you win
It's that easy
>>333330861
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIdyVK1aDtg
>>333330279
You must be powerfully retarded to think Doc needs nerfed.
>>333331019
>usmash outranges swords
>>333331085
>someone actually gave an answer instead of calling me a noob
thanks
>>333331019
>What is
>shield
>roll
>spot dodge
>jump away
If you can't get out of it it's because you messed up before or got read, or just suck.
>>333331339
noob
>>333331339
Not that anon, but understanding DI will change your smash life friend. Something so simple that lots of players are missing.
I was bullied at my lical Smash Tournament once I beat the shit out of a good player with my bayonetta.
Then after every match they kept bullying me until I fucking lost on purpose.
fuck the haters
don't give up Bayoboys
>>333331295
G&W could have mashed up-b and KO'd Bayonetta instead
>>333331585
Bayo is a bitch that carries players, but so have other top tiers. It's funny how much Sheik players are crying *cough* zero *cough* about how cheap Bayo is but before was telling people if they don't play the best characters they aren't going to win. Yet he refuses to play her because of her "too low" risk playstyle. This didn't start until sheik got butt fucked.
>No Wonderful 101 rep
That's just great, Nintendo. You have an original Platinum-built IP about sentai heroes and you left it to rot with Chibi Robo and all of the other franchises you've abandoned.
>>333331585
I would punch you if you play bayo again.
>>333331585
Deserved.
Fucking nobody faggots playing bayonetta and winning.
I bet you also think you are good at this game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qirXc7OywgQ&list=PLlIHVxA7UoL0TXOpQBGSEn_36u6z6G20u&index=40
Marss already proved that Bayonetta isn't broken, and I believe this was before the latest nerf. Its just a bit tedious to fight her in the needed way to win is all. So basically if you are a spoiled child that likes playing the game at your own pace instead of the pace needed to win with some characters, you would think Bayonetta is broken because you can't fight her senselessly. Also like people have said, its like Melee Ice Climbers, because even the slightest mistake can lead to being chain grabbed for lots of damage.
Honestly, I like that Bayonetta is the best now, because her matches are just more entertaining to watch really.
>>333331585
Fuck off.
>>333331964
You think the 3DS can handle all the crazy things the characters can do in that game? When the game's gimmick is that you're stronger with more people?
Nerf Sonic, he just runs away the whole "fight" because my character doesn't have a good projectile. His d-throw tech chase is horseshit and the matches drag on forever.
Why do I even play this game
>>333331585
>fucking lost on purpose.
You don't have to lie anon.
>>333332330
>I was defeated because the character is broken, not for skill issues I swear
Everytime
>>333331585
kill yourself and never play smash again
>>333331585
I bet you taunt after a fully charged up smash during witch time
>>333332332
>Marss already proved that Bayonetta isn't broken
Two people can't prove something is or isn't broken. Bayo still got to a grand finals.
Anybody know where I can watch the abadango's mewtwo winning matches from Pound? Just those matches?
>>333332480
They can simplify their powers. Look at how Olimar is limited to six Pikmin.
At worst, Wonder Red could be Viewtiful Joe mixed with Bayonetta. At best, he could have a little chargeable counter that shows how many people are helping him (somewhat akin to a combination of Cloud's limits and Mac's POW meter).
>>333331893
>>333332247
>>333332330
>>333332450
>>333332518
>>333332639
>>333332593
What the fuck is wrong with Bayonetta haters?
>I bet you taunt----
No, down tilt or up tilt.
I made it to the grand finals with Bayonetta, but it's really frustrating when everybody hates me for picking this character. I play easy on people on purpose recently.
>>333332639
a real bayonetta back airs you 5 times during witch time.
>feel bad for playing as Bayonetta due to how good she is
>feel bad for not playing her since I wanted her even before she became Nintendo "exclusive"
I guess it's all good as long as I don't use witch time
>>333332998
If you're skilled than pick an actual character and get GFs with them instead
>>333332871
Fair enough. I'm not against Womder Red, just to clarify, I'm just saying that the 3DS version was a factor to consider. I can see him being in the next game and more manageable to make due to stronger hardware.
>>333315659
shut up
>>333332998
why are you going easy on them, if they want to be dicks let them. Just prove your the better player again and again until they realise they just need to git gud.
from a falcon main
>Spain already banned Bayonetta from tournaments
Wow.
Fox has been in Maylay for 15 years, wins 9/10 majors, and completely trivializes 80% of the roster, yet people haven't even thought about banning him. Why is that?
>>333332332
that bayo sucked ass though. I agree that bayo is more fun to watch, UNLESS she gets in that death combo often or witch time kills at all
>>333332998
If you're gonna main a T1 character, at least have the fucking spine to take shit talk.
Fucking scrub.
>>333333673
they don't want to learn to adapt, smash 4 players are a bunch of whining babies
>>333333694
>that bayo sucked ass though
You know that people consider that guy to be one of the best Bayonettas in the world, right?
>>333321257
>having your rest countered
You deserve it.
>>333333794
holy shit, even when pointing out how fucked up melee is meleefags try to shit on brawl/4
>>333333947
then that must have been a really bad day for him since he did several mistakes in that video
>>333333970
Maybe you shouldn't have mentioned Melee first then.
>>333333673
Because Fox requires an absurd amount of tech skill to actually be tippity top dont stop cant stop wont stop good. Loads of people main Fox in melee but dont ever put in the work people like M2K, Mang0, or Leffen do so they stay mediocre. Course they never even consider switch mains because
>muh 20XX
>>333334095
don't pretend any smash discussion on the internet is safe from melee shitters
>>333333673
Because Fox didn't even start winning majors until 2012-2013 depending on what you count as "major". As well he's the hardest character in the game to play.
Sm4shers aren't arguing Bayo should be banned because she's good, but because being good with her is easy.
>>333332332
That video proves fuck all. In fact it goes against your favor because it says someone who has been practicing with a character since launch is having really close games against a character that just released 2 weeks before that tournament. Also that the same guy got to the grand finals with a character 2 weeks old against everyone else who have had time to practice and hone their mains.
>>333333970
not denying melee has some bullshit in it ice climbers, fox all that but the players just learnt the matchup and got good. The sm4sh community just call for nerfs the second anything seems slighty off instead of adapting to the meta. I play sm4sh it's a great game but the community needs to just look to themselves for answers to problems instead of begging sakurai for nerfs
>>333334074
The other player lost, and went all the way through losers to get a rematch against that Bayo player. It wasn't mistakes, he knew what he was up against and how to play against it cause he fought it before.
>/v/ 2 months ago
>Wow what a shit character, might be worst in the game. Nice job Hakurai
>now
>OMG BAYONETTA IS WORSE THAN BRAWL META KNIGHT
The fuck happened? Did she get a massive buff or were you people that bad you couldn't tell she'd be OP and actually thought she was trash?
>>333334425
>instead of adapting to the meta
tell that to the melee fanboys that constantly shit on anything that isn't melee
>>333309974
Exceptions are not the rule. Snake eyez wins SFV with gief but gief is not considered viable.
There's about 3-4 viable characters in melee.
>>333333694
No that Bayonetta is one of the best in the world, and carved through that whole tournament the entire time. Even other people that knew how to play Bayonetta lost to him. He's a expert and a pro, and he lost because he didn't have the patience to win. The other player knew that they needed to wait longer then average to punish her moves, and the Bayonetta player isn't used to people taking their time, instead of just blindly running into her jaws to get eaten.
>>333334425
>>333333794
>a popular game has more low level shitters than a basement competitive niche
water is wet, more news at 10
>>333334763
... so you're saying he made mistakes
>>333334867
>than a basement competitive niche
>the more popular game
tip of my kek
>>333335004
Competitively, yes.
>>333335004
are you aware than twitch views don't actually mean shit?
>>333334594
>Did she get a massive buff or were you people that bad you couldn't tell she'd be OP and actually thought she was trash?
A bit of both. She got indirectly buffed when Shiek got nerfed.
And /v/ was always bad at evaluating characters. Remember Bowser before release?
>OMG BAYONETTA IS WORSE THAN BRAWL META KNIGHT
I'll say she's more like Brawl Ice Climbers, and that's far worse
>>333335187
Careful, hes got Kappas
>>333335361
It's amsuing how many people are making this comparison
I think Brawl ICs would be a very difficult matchup for Bayo, who has no good way to threaten shields outside of staling her kill throw for ~10%.
>>333334279
>Because Fox didn't even start winning majors until 2012-2013 depending on what you count as "major".
Nigga what
>>333300653
Increase the SDI modifier on up B and make witch time scale with damage so she NEEDS to counter a big hit to be effective. No getting fucked off of a jab.
Those two changes would fix her
>>333334594
People learned how to play Bayonetta, and then every top tier that could be good against her got nerfed. Metaknight and Sheik are basically dead now. Corrin got destroyed, people were only complaining about his counter, but they nerfed just about everything he can do along with the counter instead. Everything good about Zero Suit Samus got weakened. Cloud got the weakest nerfs, but they weren't enough to change much with him really.
Bayonetta got nerfs too, but nobody takes advantage of her start up weaknesses, so making those weaknesses bigger didn't really make her easier to beat at all really.
>release smash 4
>this game has no combos, SMASH IS RUINED!
>release bayo
>this character has too many combos, SMASH IS RUINED!
>>333329539
Nah, Jab has the same function as a tilt, she just needs a faster CQC move. Dsmash is unnecessary but it'd be nice if it wasn't a waste of a move slot.
Her neutral is pretty good, her recovery is pretty good; she could have some other problems fixed, but really all it would take to make her not shit is kill options
>>333335521
That's the thing though, trying to shield and wait with Bayonetta is like trying to shield and wait a Fox with Leffen behind the wheel. Not only are you not going to get the chance that easily, but your shield is getting broken. There are tons of records of Bayonetta players just going crazy at a shielding player, and breaking the shield instead of dealing with them.
>>333335842
>>this game has no combos, SMASH IS RUINED!
This was never true, people are just stupid.
>>333335937
You don't just hold shield brah. You just choose shield as your defensive option.
Bayo doesn't even have decent shiledbreak setups unless you're on a platform below her (which, I admit, can get dumb).
It sure doesn't invalidate the character, but someone with as good a grab game as Brawl ICs would make for a very dangerous opponent for Bayo.
>>333335671
evo 2013 was the 1st major tournament a fox ever won and it took mango to do it
>>333335842
yes because having one character that can combo reliably while the rest of the cast is still just trading punches is okay
>>333335764
But you fags also said she'd be hard to use.
If a character is truly OP it does not take time for people to learn them before you figure out holy shit, this character is ridiculous. Look at something like BBCP 1.0 Kokonoe. People knew she was busted from day -15
Face it, a character has to be at the top of the tier list in one way or another, and what better way to do it then a character with tons of combos, and fairly obvious weaknesses? At least this is more balanced then Sheik. If you recall, Sheik was good because of needle stalling until they reached the point needed for the 50/50. At least with Bayonetta there won't be that much stalling really. Plus, seeing two crazy Bayonetta fans fighting is more exciting then most matches in Smash 4.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjgUwqOyryQ&list=PLlIHVxA7UoL0TXOpQBGSEn_36u6z6G20u&index=30
>>333336479
it is, combo attacks don't do any shit while slow attacks deal lots of damage, you just suck at getting out of combos but adapting seems to hard to comprehend
>>333336593
This.
Friendly reminder that if Bayonetta is nerfed it means Rosalina will become the best character in the game.
I'd rather the game become Bayonetta Fighter than Rosalina Fighter.
>>333318945
Japan is doing it too, they mad af at 9B.
>>333336214
I mean Bayonetta attacks too fast to let you have time for the shield to regenerate. Her attack pace just basically trumps shield regen. Once you shield once, a clock starts, if you don't start the combos you planned to stop the momentum, the Bayonetta player is going to break your shield eventually. People roll around waiting for a chance to punish, and either screw it up, or wait too long and lose their shield.
>>333335521
It was more a comparison on how they impacted the metagame, not their movesets.
When Brawl was young, Ice Climber was nowhere to be seen. People knew of their handoffs and 0 to deaths but no one really bothered to learn it when they could just use MK. But when someone did learn them and applied it into their game, it basically killed the game because you can't make any mistakes and caused an always slow game to get even slower.
Bayonetta is nowhere near that stage, it's too early and no one has really optimize her yet. But she could only get better at this point, outside of the balance changes of course.
>>333336593
Holy shit a Sm4sh match that ends before four minutes in.
>>333336272
Then you must have some seriously loose definitions of major
Besides half of that was just Ken dominance, Fox was stil best in the game long before that.
>>333334372
>character 2 weeks old
It's been a month and a week now, smashboards.
>>333336910
??? Other than Witch Twist all her moves have significant startup and most have disadvantage on block or landing lag (since Bair is +4 or whatever)
Almost any character with a decent OoS option can punish
>>333337201
Most of them?
>>333336781
Dabuz is so damn good people really think Rosa will be the best in the game.
News flash, he's the Hbox of Smash 4. Only he elevates Rosa to where she is.
