When will games stop the "large open environment that is completely empty" meme and return to good linear level design?
2015
afghanistan was the worst. at least the other one had a couple of interesting locales..
Fucking invisible walls everywhere in afghanistan, and every road is in a gorge.
When a AAA game returns to it and sells a lot and gets critical acclaim.
>>333180609
>linear
>good
pick one
You right when will they return?
>>333180609
If the implication is that most linear environments are any more interactive and detailed you'd be full of shit.
Detailed and interactive world construction is something hardly any games in the throughout the history of vidya have accomplished.
You're complaining about the lack of something that is incredibly hard to achieve and pretending the companies that are too lazy to try to begin with will somehow do a better job in a smaller problem space.
Meanwhile MGSV is still the most interactive and broad gameplay experience ever created.
>>333181680
>MGSV is still the most interactive and broad gameplay experience ever created
>>333181218
I pick linear
>>333181680
i don't think he means interactivity. MGS was more fun when it was more linear. it just works better most of the time. imo, if you aren't making an RPG then you should have a really good reason for having an open world environment.
>>333181680
>go here
>eliminate(fulton) that
>mine clearing 16
>eliminate the enemy vehicle 186
>>333182249
>he doesn't realize you can oversimplify any game in description
large open levels leads to an empty and desolate game.
tight closed levels screw up the camera.
3d games just can't win
>>333182467
That literally is what most of the missions are. Fulton or destroy (but actually Fulton).
>>333180609
About six years ago when New Vegas was released
friendly reminder that even the new Legend of Zelda is going to be open world meme
Games have been open world since before you were born with the legend of zelda you millennial faggot
>>333182839
You're snatching shit to build up Mother Base's supplies and armaments; what did you expect from a PMC simulator?
>>333180609
aren't people complaining about Dark Souls III being linear?
>>333184523
This is /v/, the board that loves to hate video games.
>>333184523
>>333184671
>/v/ is one person
>>333181759
stop with this meme, good controls and good animations don't make good gameplay, mgs 1 2 3 and even 4 had better gameplay
>>333184813
No they didn't.
>>333181603
He said good design
People give Infamous shit, but at least those games' world have shit happening.
>>333184813
MGS1 and 2 are some of the clunkiest games ever made.
MGS4 had functional gameplay, nothing special.
>>333185007
By any objective standard they did
>>333185461
How are you defining gameplay?
>>333185570
Pacing, Level Design, Challenge, AI
MGS1/2 far surpass MGSV when it comes to those
Why didn't they have any indoor levels? There was that underground part in GZ and the intro level in 5 but that's about it. Interiors looked great in the engine too, so was it just that the AI was too retarded?
>>333181218
>modern open world game
>not linear
Spreading the missions of a linear storyline across 2000 square kilometers and filling the void with fetch quests is not a non-linear experience.
>>333185453
not true at all but whatever
2 especially is one of the most well constructed games ever
>our games are too short
>I know
>lets introduce an open world setting filled with boring tedious running from one place to another
>genius!
>>333185765
Fox Engine actually excels at indoor areas compared to outdoor but for some reason Kojima said nah
Just compared PT to TPP
>>333186053
It's not that the engine is better in closed doors.
Everyone can push a graphics engine to it's limits when you have to render so little.
I still think the PS360 versions really hurt MGSV, and seeing the Episode 51 video, saying that the fight against Sally was with Snake and all of Diamond Dogs, makes me think they canned it because they didn't have time to make a new one that would run on the PS360.
The last-gen versions already run like shit as is.
>>333185228
They never existed
>>333185765
The mansion exists. Well designed interior levels take a lot of work which could be spent making muh open world more huge instead.
>>333184813
You're the only one forcing a meme here. You post the same response every thread and it's complete bullshit. The controls are a huge part of the gameplay, the actual bases (not outposts) are well designed, the game gives you tons of fun options to play around with, and the AI is the best it's ever been. V is easily the best playing game in the series.
MGSV is the new MGS2.
-both games had fantastic but misleading trailers that hyped the games to unprecedented levels
-both games are divided into a short prologue chapter and the longer main game, with each portion having a different playable character
-the prologue chapter is arguably better than the main game for both titles
-both games feature an unwanted twist regarding who the protagonist is
-both games play amazingly well but are let down by repetitive, lackluster level design and a lack of variety
-both games have disappointing boss battles compared to prior games in the series
-both games have stories that went in a completely different direction from what fans were expecting
-both games have disappointing endings that leave many important questions unanswered
-both games are overloaded with boring and lengthy audio-based info dumps
-both games received rave reviews from critics but a tepid reaction from fans
The fan reaction to V is the exact same shit that happened with Sons of Liberty nearly fifteen years ago. And just like 2, V's reputation will improve over the following years.
>>333185453
1 has just aged, 2 still holds up pretty amazingly to this day
>>333186825
>MGSV is the new MGS2.
no. 2 was actually a good game and wasnt missing an entire 1/3rd of itself.
inb4 muh Ocelot & muh 2nd Strut
>>333186901
In terms of gameplay? Yes. The level design has always been weak though, as were the bosses, and the story is legit bad.
>>333185570
If the experience could have been delivered by no thing else than videogame, then it's good gameplay
>>333186929
>2 was a good game
Yes. And so is V. Had you been alive back when 2 released you'd have seen that it received the same response from fans and many of the same criticisms.
>>333186547
i posted it once a month ago desu, i don't browse /v/ that often
>>333186825
MGS2 had a bunch of shit leading up to Raiden's existential crisis.
Even though it's been obvious from the trailers, there is nothing that leads to MGSV's twist. Mission 46 just drops out of nowhere.
Also MGS2's level design is great.
>>333180609
or how about maps that aren't the size of texas?
VC was great.
>>333185701
nah
>>333180609
>DONT IMPROVE JUST DELETE IT
fuck off casualfags. Open world has the highest potential for growth in gaming. If we can get more advanced random events generated it eill be much better than boring ass corridor stimulators.
>>333187000
2 has the best level design in the series
story is pretty good, definitely not as bad as people say
bosses weren't as good as 1+3 but better than 4 (5 had none)
>>333187193
there is no such thing as random events
>>333187164
The story is full of little hints about the twist leading up to it
Open world is essentially a substitute for good game design. Linear games require exceptionally good design to keep the player interested, while a mediocre at best game with poor mechanics, missions, and everything really, can still maintain interest for dozens of hours just because of how big it is.
>>333185701
MGS2 had horrible pacing (long as fuck codec calls, many of which are spaced closely to each other, is not good pacing), bland and repetitive level design, and is the easiest game in the series on anything but EE. The only thing it did well was the AI, and every console MGS since then has surpassed it in that area.
>>333180609
When you stop being a retarded shitposter and learn both work. You're just a contrarian faggot admit it.
>>333186825
>-both games have disappointing endings that leave many important questions unanswered
not true for 2. Also 2 did everything you said much better and the 'twist' was revealed 2 hours in with the explanation following at the end while in TPP you had 50 hours of mediocrity, then a twist which needs no explanation and an unfinished ending.
>>333187485
what happened to Ray and Ocelot?
>>333186825
This is unlikely for one reason: MGS2 is designed to be replayable, MGSV is not. In MGSV you get one save slot, and starting over means having to grind all those upgrades all over again. You also have to deal with all the invasion bullshit that happens when you log in after not playing for a year. I enjoyed MGSV for many dozens of hours and I'll never play it ever again.
>>333187328
Yes there is obvious foreshadowing, but mission 46 just drops on your lap from the heavens, where you have to repeat the hour long prologue over again. There is nothing going on in Venom Snake's psyche leading up to the ending.
>>333187164
>>333187274
You guys are either insane or have terrible taste. 2's level design was terrible, relying on areas that were far too similar to each other and layouts that removed any challenge from the game. When you can stand in one spot and tranq every guard in an area the level design is not good.
>>333187609
>There is nothing going on in Venom Snake's psyche leading up to the ending
what
>>333187328
>yfw you read all mgs5 speculation threads on /v/
>yfw they are actually right and you can tell the twist from the first cutscene
>>333180609
I'd rather have a "large open environment that is completely empty" than a "linear environment that is completely empty"
>>333180609
Afghanistan map in MGSV still felt linear as fuck with the unclimable walls everywhere forcing you into a series of same looking gorges.
>>333187391
>he easiest game in the series on anything but EE.
all mgs game are easy, and 2 is definitely the least easy of them though
>>333184375
Actual PMC shit
Fucking Peacewalker at least gives you different types of missions that you don't really see in the main game where you play as the mercs under Big Boss. They should've done that shit with this game.
>>333187817
You can play any main mission or side op as a random merc (not to mention the game rewards you for it) I don't see the issue???
I wish more games were like Deus Ex.
Linear, but also open world and freeform where it needs to be.
>>333187706
That's okay, but rarely are linear games empty and lacking in substance.
>>333187549
how is this an important question? Rather build up for a sequel, who cares about a little toyrobot when the narrative is all about hideos life, video game sequels, fan expectations and leaving something behind?
>>333187963
well you could argue that V wrapped up everything in a similar fashion too
>>333187720
This.
Game is touted as a GO ANYWHERE AND STEALTH HOW YOU WANT SIMULATOR
It's implied you can hope on trucks and climb up mountains and exploit the daily schedule with sandstorms and shift changes in a significant manner.
And in actuality there's barely anyone driving around, sandstorms are super short and you can't even climb the various mountains that just serve to fork the roads.
it's ridiculous
>>333188021
except that it didn't have any of the themes 2 did.
>>333187936
o okay
This is what scares me about the new Zelda
It's all your fault for not accepting that Skyward Sword has actually pretty great design for the most part since it's meant to be played without wasting your time instead of giving you a bunch of empty space.
>>333187589
>You also have to deal with all the invasion bullshit that happens when you log in after not playing for a year.
Not really. I don't think I've ever participated in that shit, and every time I log into the game I find that I earned a lot of points and GMP from doing absolutely nothing.
>>333187931
literally the best form of level/game design, but ITS ALL ABOUT SQUAREKILOMETERS AND GOING EVERYWHERE FROM THE BEGINNING.
>>333188108
There's more than one way to do a meta narrative
>>333188173
except that skyward sword was shiiiit. They clearly wanted the skyrim audience otherwise they could have gone back to OOT/MM/TP/(tww)
>>333188053
>and you can't even climb the various mountains that just serve to fork the roads.
I hated this the most.
I wanted to reach mission places on D-Horse but ended up getting lost and had to call a chopper everytime.
>>333187928
PW had mercs get unique missions. In TPP everyone plays the same missions in the same areas but you get different abilities
>start thread about open world level design
>turns into a people-defending-MGSV thread
>>333187664
2's level design is what the game is, like it or don't
5 doesn't have any identity because it wants to build on previous games legacy while removing all its ingredients
>>333188343
The open world in V wasn't even bad
>>333187139
As someone who was alive for both MGS1 and MGS2, the only real complaint fans had was the bait and switch for Raiden, the strangeness of Liquid living on through Ocelot's arm, and people not getting the ending and the AI going weird stuff.
It's not the same complaints people are having about MGSV, things like 1/3rd of the game missing, characters acting like soulless husks, Mother Base having less personality and features than in PW, the ending being a total mess, missing content, missing Battle Gear, among other things.
>>333188308
>getting lost
there are like 5 roads in Afghanistan and you have a map
>>333187301
Which is why i said randomly generated events.
>>333188220
yes the good way and the bad way. Guess which one is which. What points did MGS V make over the course of 50 hours except YOU are big boss destroying a whole character in the process?
>>333185325
>Infamous
The 2nd one is by far one of the best open world games out there and best superhero game in my opinion.
3 is alright but only really fun when you just blow shit up
>>333184523
Dark Souls 1 was a large open environment that wasn't completely empty, that's why.
>>333188383
ii was hideously mediocre, even FarCry is better than it.
>>333188461
They're both pretty good, you can drop the memes now
>>333188305
>except that skyward sword was shiiiit.
It really wasn't. You are free to have any opinion about the motion controllers but the level design was great, as linear as it was. It taught you about the area and later gave you a way to replay it in a completely different way. Between the special events and the Silent Realms, the game was thight as fuck. Backtracking in name only, since you didn't have to repeat anything except that one dumb boss and the first temple because fuck that water dragon, what a douchebag.
>They clearly wanted the skyrim audience
The fuck are you talking about? I hope you are talking about Zelda Wii U, otherwise you make no sense.
>>333188501
yeah, nope. FarCry plays like shit. V does it right by not relying on exploration as a major point of its world
>>333180609
>Implied to be the best stealth game ever made
>Still barely touches Splinter Cell series while throwing away fun things from past games
>>333187589
How do you figure V isn't repayable? Every mission is replayable, the grading system encourages you to do better each time, and there are tons of different loadouts and strategies you can use. In previous games replaying meant using the same tools taking the same paths through the same areas, just with slightly less forgiving AI and less health items.
>>333184523
Linear fags are autists who actually do prefer cinematography in video games rather than world building and game playing. They want their games to be movies that unfold in front of them and the just like in all groups the more autistic ones think every game needs to appeal to them.
>>333188601
Then what's the point of it
>>333188693
you still had to get around somehow
>>333188601
Thats exactly what makes it shit, there's no point in an open world if you're not going to explore it.
This only furthers the point that it should've been a series of GZ sized episodes rather than a big slot of nothing.
>>333186825
2 is finished though.
>>333188658
Cave Story is linear as fuck and far outclasses MGSV as a game, no Cinematic shit included.
get fucked son
>>333188601
You're missing the point, retard. The point wasn't that Far Cry plays better, the point was even an over world as shitty as those is still better than MGSV's.
>>333180609
Uncharted 4 takes looks like its got similar aspects to MGS5 actually, but puts them into a linear game/, with the latest video anyway.
More open levels but within a linear story driven game.
>>333188630
MGSV's missions are not interesting or worth replaying. Ground Zeroes was worth replaying, but MGSV gives you too many tools and options and the objectives are all bland.
>>333188741
>there's no point in an open world if you're not going to explore it.
It lets you go to any part of the map at any time, breaks up the fighting with travel in between, and overall looks nicer than a level select menu. It also has other ways it uses its space that is deeper than just "go here and activate all the buttons"
The actual bases/airport/oil refinery etc are all really well done. There just needed to be more of them.
>>333186543
>The mansion exists
And it's one of the worst parts of the games. The controls and abilities definitely excelled in the outdoor environments. The level design in the mansion was terrible and so were the objectives there.
Africa was terrible in general.
>>333186825
>-both games had fantastic but misleading trailers that hyped the games to unprecedented levels
Only retards buy into hype and were butthurt about the endings/"disappointments.
emptiness isn't really a problem if the environment is pretty.
>>333188856
Except it isn't because the open world in FC is so bland that the game suffers as a result
>>333188897
GZ was the exact same shit
>>333188658
I'd rather have a game that is fun once instead of a game that is mediocre but in multiple ways.
>>333180609
As soon as you fuckin faggots stop buying them.
>>333188918
Its all bullshit when it could've been filed down into smaller maps, probably would've been cheaper too.
> and overall looks nicer than a level select menu
And much, much slower. I dont even get how you think thats a plus.
Trust me, nobody is playing open world games for their health, exploration is always an expectation with those games. Thats something Koima didnt get, and thats why MGSV fails as an open world game.
The truth is it never even needed open world.
>>333189012
>GZ was the exact same shit
GZ had much MUCH better level design than TPP and the limited tools were more interesting.
I don't want a bunch of slightly different versions of the same rocket luncher
large open environment that is completely empty with nothing to do
>>333189012
No, it wasn't. The "kill or extract?" and "Do I rescue this prisoner?" questions were actually questions in Ground Zeroes because you had to carry them out, increasing the difficulty.
GZ is better designed. There is a depth to GZ missions that do not exist in any TPP mission.
>>333187274
>2 has the best level design in the series
I sure did love hexagons
to make TPP worth it you pretty much have to play on Subsistence mode
but for some retarded reason that setting is locked to only a few missions
>>333189012
>GZ was the exact same shit
lol no
>>333189139
why is ANYONE hyped for this? it looks boring as fuck, even since day one
>>333188619
Splinter Cell had one (1) good game. Granted, said game is fantastic and on par with most of the MGS games. But it's still only one out of six. The rest of the series is mediocre at best.
>>333189202
What's wrong with hexagons?
>>333188840
You missunderstand anon. There's more to cinematics than just cuscenes. Never played cave story so i wont try to tackle it.
>>333189202
hexagons are god-tier polygons
>>333185765
But the AI was actually really good. Like honestly some of the best I've seen.
>>333188957
I bought into the hype and loved both games. I'm not saying either is bad, just that they both had misleading trailers.
>>333189240
marketing lies, same shit as Spore
>>333189253
i hope you're talking about the original because Chaos Theory is stealth for dummies. it's not hard to be sneaky when every inch of every map is shrouded in shadows.
>>333189098
>And much, much slower. I dont even get how you think thats a plus.
that's part of the game, retard
>>333189345
>I never played that game but I KNOW you're misunderstanding!
lol
>it has to be either hallways or open world there is no in between and there arent hundreds of other 10/10 games that fall into this grey area
>>333180609
>>333188693
The whole point of the open world was to open up stealth options
Like the Helipad in Shadow Moses in 1. You could go through the bottom vents, or the top vents. You could go around and collect some weapons and items. Maybe even find a secret or two
GZ was all about this since it offered you options on who to rescue first, alternate prisoners, if you should sneak in through the back or the sewer gratings or the main entrance by the back of the truck or the side door
The thing is that in V the way most of the outposts are laid out and how small they are it kind of inhibits things and doesn't maximize the fun.
>>333189438
>I-It's part of the game s-so it must be good
TPP is all bloat and no substance, that's all you're really saying to me.
>>333189427
It's not even the lies. Everything they've shown about the game even to promote it looks really boring.
You go to a random planet full of probably the same randomly generated species and fish and such... then what? You walk a little bit here and there doing nothing?
>>333189431
The original was a graphical showcase and little else. It played like shit and Chaos Theory outclasses it in every way.
>>333184813
Are you serious? The gameplay in MGS5 is excellent. The game itself its boring because they make you walk 30 thousand miles just to do something.
>>333189438
And that part of the game is bad design.
>>333189014
I would rather have a game with role playing options like elder scrolls than a movie that I click through. I don't dissagree that pathway games can be fun i just would lrefer something closer to DnD than a movie.
>>333189253
The great thing about SC is that it had a sense of verticality. How you could climb around shit and leap over stuff is pretty neat. MGS doesn't do this for some reason. It seemed like a real odd omission in V when it's supposed to be more realistic and more open. I mean they take the time to animate Snake climbing up those stupid pipes in Motherbase and you don't ever run across them in the main game? So weird.
>>333180609
>LINEAR GAMES ARE SHIT, I WISH THERE WAS MORE OPEN WORLD GAME
>OPEN WORLD GAMES ARE SHIT, I WISH THERE WAS MORE LINEAR GAMES.
>>333189506
You're reminding me how great GZ is with that MGS1 comparison.
>>333189513
whatever you say. for me, part of the charm is figuring out the best way to get around the map
>>333189621
>The gameplay in MGS5 is excellent
This is what hurts the most.
What a waste of amazing gameplay and varied options.
>>333189471
Alright in your post were you saying there are no cutscenes?
>>333180609
Never. millennials like their games dumb and openworld. All good 3d level designers got too old or fucked off from gaming industry.
>>333189650
nope, it's one of the few instances where devs did open world right
>>333189771
Just play Minecraft
MGSV failed at all the things that mattered, like being an actual stealth game
>>333189864
I didn't make the original Cave Story post, mate.
>>333190084
>failed at being a stealth game
how so? It has great stealth mechanics and an impressive lighting engine to boot
>>333180609
Probably never, because actual level design takes time and creativity, and that means money. Why spend money making intricate levels when you can just make a giant open map with nothing in it far faster and cheaper?
>>333189506
>>333189768
All of the major bases in V had hidden ducts/crawlspaces, climbable surfaces, and other alternate paths through them. You guys should've explored more.
>>333180609
hopefully never
I enjoy being creative when beating a level, or completing a mission in TPP's case
MGSV gained nothing by being open world. There's nothing interesting to do in it between missions. The final Metal Gear Solid game shouldn't have been an experiment to see if the KojiPro team could make a half decent open world game, because they failed spectacularly.
It should have been a series of maps around the size of Camp Omega. Less missions would have been nice too, because most of them feel like filler and aren't that interesting.
>>333180609
How to make MGSV better
>Have the Muhjadeen and Ruskies fighting like the Act 1 PMCs and terroists in MGS4
>Have soldiers doing random shit like looting or torturing captives or animals or just dicking around to give them a sense of life
>Have more patrols and enemies to chase after you in vehicles a la the GTAs
>Let us climb any mountain or hill or whatever we can see
>Let the gameplay be truly open even during the bullshit story parts that force us to kill someone even though you let us extract any one pretty much
>Dump the paywall garbage for items
>Let us use our own soldiers more like in AssCreed
MGSV just did open world really poorly, even Skyrim was better
>>333181603
Exactly, can't wait until the open world bubble bursts
>>333188387
They also botched about the entire Patriots twist, the amount of cutscenes and codec calls, the Jack/Rose stuff, the Big Shell being boring, the low difficulty, and the lackluster bosses. Convenient how you left that out.
>>333190404
>There's nothing interesting to do in it between missions
Side-OPS, base management and FOBs
>>333189617
except for being a challenging stealth game.
>>333190345
I did and you're right. OKB Zero and the Code Talker Mansion have some alternate routes but they're the exception not the norm. And honestly none of those bases felt as intricate as Omega.
>>333181680
It was honestly about the same as Farcry 3 & 4 in that regard. I agree with most of what you said, but honestly it is just a bunch of bases splashed around large environments. 90% of the interactions were just gimmicks.
When it comes down to it I just just don't think story focused games can work well in a sandbox environment. So far, all they have managed to do is slap the main storyline in, and then add a bunch of side missions and bases and collectibles around the map. It is all unoriginal and uninteresting.
GTA is probably the only story driven franchise that has made use of a large, free roam map. Wherever you go, whether you are just roaming or on your way to missions, the world is full of interesting details.
The games where an open Sandbox world really make sense at this point are survival games. Some of the more creative DayZ mods have probably made the best use of a large, open map in my opinion. But then again, the survival genre has pumped out some of the worst, too. Games that think that an open map and a gathering system will somehow be revolutionary if they just add some original crafting patterns.
Open worlds have a lot to offer, but at this point AAA games are just a bit too excited over them, and are just making every game open world, without thinking about whether it will really add anything of value.
>>333190196
Oh so you have less of a fucking clue than i do and thought you knew better nice.
>>333188053
>get excited about wall fracture climbing
>use ability maybe 5 times during the whole game
>>333190592
Side Ops are repetitive bullshit. Peace Walker and Ground Zeroes both had more interesting side ops. In TPP it's just
>take out this tank squad 5 times
>take out these 5 dudes 10 times
>gets these 5 blueprints
And spread out just as much as the actual missions are.
>>333190801
>Side Ops are repetitive bullshit
Only as repetitive as you make them
All this time spent arguing when all you have to do is acknowledge that the top three MGS games are 1, 3, and Ghost Babel.
>>333190936
There's around 150 side ops in the game and almost none of them are actually interesting. They should have cut down on the number of missions and side ops and made more actually interesting content to put in their barren open world
>>333180609
It's funny because people were in love with open-world games back when everything was a linear shooter. Similarly, people were in love with Amnesia-style horror back when most horror games were just action games with scary-looking enemies.
>>333190545
lol nub, git gud at understanding games
>>333188428
Bethesda already does that
It works like shit
>>333190936
Going around blasting everyone or sneaking while in stealth doesn't change the objectives though.
>>333191086
if by not interesting you mean not filled with gimmicky cutscenes and one off mechanics, then sure
>>333191252
but it changes the gameplay.
>>333191254
By not interesting I mean there's nothing interesting to them
>go kill or fulton these four guys in this one small outpost that you probably passed on the way to an actual mission
>now do it 10 more times
>sneak around this tank and 4 guys
>now do it 5 more times
>go to this one small outpost and fulton this one prisoner
>now do it 10 more times
>>333191254
He means different objectives like in PW where you had missions where you had to protect boxes from waves of enemies or go around and take pictures of ghosts or shoot down guards getting zapped up by balloons or blow up barricades or date Paz and Kaz,etc
>>333190219
>failed at being a stealth game
>impressive lighting engine
dddddrrrrrrrddrdrdrr.........
>>333191505
right, most of those missions are single one off affairs with gimmicky mechanics
>>333191243
Which is why i said improve the system. Good job reading
>>333188478
That is not really how I would describe DaS1.
It was a linear map with freedom of movement back and forward between already explored areas. There is not really anywhere that I would call a large open environment.
>>333191498
you know you never do the same mission multiple times in a row and are never forced to do them at all. It's just stuff to do while you're running around in the map
>>333191050
1 is just a rehash of MG2
>>333191792
I've always hated open worlds. I'll take linear any day of the week.
>>333191683
Or create actual content instead of half-assing it
Open world adds literally nothing to any game
Hub-world is much better
Open world is literally filler because it makes travel super tedious
Which is then bypassed by fast-travel which in turn makes the open world useless
>>333191634
The only gimmicky thing is the dates and that's just for fun
The other stuff use some mechanics that some missions actually use
For instance most people had to plant C4 in Pitch Dark or all those missions you have to blow up vehicles
Taking pictures is never used in the main missions IIRC but could easily considering it's a common tactic to gain intel on something
>>333191730
And they're all shit.
Even Ground Zeroes did the whole "take out these targets" side op better because there was some actual thought put into the design of the mission rather than just sticking four guys in this one outpost and make them stand around and do nothing
>>333192018
the sideops in GZ were just non story critical main ops in TPP
>>333192183
The side ops in GZ were of better quality than most of the missions in TPP, too.
>>333192251
Honestly the lack of fulton made them more interesting.
Fulton makes everything way too easy.
Connected linear world is the best kind of world. No flying or swimming bullshit and can go back to any place through multiple routes.
>>333192251
They're exactly the same thing. GZ is just one large base instead of TPP where you have different outposts and wilderness in between
>>333192357
The level design of this game is so underapreciated
>>333192419
And GZ is better for not having large amounts of nothing bullshit in between and actually using the one area in multiple ways effectively
>>333180609
I'm currently playing Blacklist, a game that gameplay wise is quite similar to MGSV.
The difference being Blacklist as a linear level design while MGSV is open world.
For this reason alone Blacklist > MGSV
Linear level also means everything is planned by the devs. You can build a more cohesive and deep level design with a linear concept.
Something that you don't see in a open world map like MGSv
>>333192560
>Blacklist > MGSV
dis nigga
never understood why contrarians felt obligated to praise that piece of shit of a game
>>333192526
GZ is large amounts of nothing. Outside of the admin area which is just a hallway and boiler room, it's just a helipad and some tents
>PW had new characters that had the most depth since MGS1
>GZ has a villain who's writing was the best since Ocelot in MGS2
>GZ also had Destroy The Anti-Air Emplacements which has probably the best game play in the series
Where did it go wrong?
>>333192645
Because the Splinter Cell franchise has shit reputation now, all thanks to Conviction.
No one want to admit they enjoyed Blacklist.
>>333190432
>Have the Muhjadeen and Ruskies fighting like the Act 1 PMCs and terroists in MGS4
I hated how that was touted as some grand feature in MGS4 and you only really got to do it like two times throughout the whole game.
>>333191972
Which would be improving the system. Too bad autism fags like you say its either good now or never will be.
>>333192660
>large amounts
Nah, there were some spaces were there weren't guards, sure, but a lot of the ground was actually covered. GZ also made better use of certain mechanics, like riding in the back of enemy vehicles, security cameras, and turning power on/off, all in a small space better than most places in TPP, which most of the time don't even have any of those. And there's actually some collectibles around the map that actually do something.
>>333192876
PW was trash, TPP sucks because it followed the same crappy mission structure and no fun story path that PW put the series on
>>333180609
>game set in Africa
>no lions or cheetahs to kill and wear as camo
>no rivers or lakes to swim in to ambush people or find secrets
>no mountains or hills to climb to find secret birds and treasures they may steal
>>333192918
Me too. Kojima gets better at marketing his uncooked games more and more man
>>333190219
>how so?
Because Stealth is not required.
It's just an action game pretending to be stealth.
>inb4 fags try to say the same about the other games when there are some sections you simply cannot pass without stealth
>>333193685
>Stealth is not required.
so? It's still viable. That's a good thing
>>333193767
That means its not a stealth game, just an action game with stealth elements.
Even then, Riddick outclasses it in that respect.
>>333193894
or a stealth game with action elements
>>333192876
Also TPP's OST is shit. I literally deleted all tracks that weren't GZ.
>>333194729
I disagree
Are there any open world platformers?
>>333195503
An opinion based off 2 original vocal tracks, a motif that is repeated a million times, and an '80s mixtape.
