This is the worst 3D Zelda.
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This is the worst 3D Zelda.
Yeah I agree. Worst combat, worst story, gud music, worst overworld, ONE (1) (uno) town, worst companion.
It's pretty shit by Zelda standards.
It had great dungeon design.
So many pointless, fluff mechanics that added nothing to the game.
>>332664965
It had like two great dungeons.
>>332663330
Never gonna get a wii u release with standard controls, feels terrible.
>>332663330
That's not Twilight Princess.
>>332663330
What are you talking about this was fun as shit
especially against the atromatron boss with 6 arms
I see what this is coupled with the "TP is the best 3D Zelda" thread. Well, both are wrong.
>>332663330
>I'm the only one that thinks its a 10/10 game
>>332665117
Wow one good boss in the game!
>>332665101
Why would you want it remade so soon? WW and TP got remade ten years after each came out, wait until 2021 or something for SS, it'll look even better on future hardware.
>>332665229
Better than TP's zero.
>>332663330
Irrelevant, Zelda was never good.
>>332665207
Nothing wrong with that. I think it's the weakest 3D Zelda game, but it's still a fantastic game.
>>332665207
Literally why though
>>332663330
Did it really take 5 years to make this shit?
>>332665349
Stallord was cool
>>332665207
I don't see how you could rate it a 10/10 but it's at least a 7/10 imo and gets shit on way more than it deserves.
>>332665382
Can you even begin to imagine how Zelda U is going to turn out?
>>332665507
I don't like the first phase that much due to the random factor of where the Stalchildren spawn, while the second phase is visually cool but it's just about timed button presses gameplay-wise. I think Cragma from Spirit Tracks (the boss where you have to get on the mine cart and target his weak spots with the bow) did a similar concept better.
>>332663330
Fuck off, this game is good. Twilight Princess is the worst.
>>332666192
Nah, Skyward Sword is.
Nah, worst 3D Zelda is Ocarina of Time.
Skyward Sword has one of the best stories in the entire series and develops Link and Zelda well, along with the other characters. Not to mention it had really cool dungeons, awesome sound, and an amazing finale. The motion controls were pretty good too. The only things were the lack of exploration and the loftwing was slower than it needed.
I give it a solid 7/10
>>332666031
Never played Spirit Tracks but fair enough
I'm gonna try to play it for a fourth time, but I'll probably stop after a few hours. Fi literally breaks the game for me. She makes it a non-game.
OoT - 9/10
MM - 9.5/10
WW - 9/10
TP - 8/10
SS - 7/10
cautiously optimistic about zelda nx
Copying from the other thread
3D: tp > oot > ww > mm > June Shannon's wet farts > ss
2D: oos > ooa > la > mc > 1 > 2
Dropped ph after going in that temple for the millionth time. Didn't play st, albw or hyrule warriors yet.
I like the Link and Zelda stuff, the combat (when I don't have to fucking calibrate the controls), and the art direction which I've liked since it's announcement.
Don't care for the overworld, tutorial is way too fucking long and there's too much hand holding bullshit that pisses me off, but other than that I honestly wouldn't be against picking it up again.
>>332667426
Baitery daitery do but I'll bite anyway.
Skyward Sword has a terrible story. The "backstory" to the Master Sword is meaningless because it starts with another mystical god sword, the master sword already had an explanation so going "well it came from THIS mystical sword" doesn't answer any questions.
Barely anything fucking happens. The most that happens before the end is you see Zelda go to sleep in some big fuckin crystal of honey, that's not even your doing. You spend the first few dungeons playing catch up, only for there not even to be any development from that, you just collect yet more shit. OOT had the whole time shenanigans, Wind Waker had the Tower of the Gods (yeah it's after two but we all know about the third cut dungeon) and Twilight Princess had Zant fuck Midna and you go find the Master Sword.
The most that happens in the story is that Skyloft gets returned to the ground, but that didn't even fucking matter. If the people in the sky were running out of food or supplies or people to fuck that might have been cool, but what is the benefit in these people returning to the ground other than it leading to the other games?
Ganondorf's backstory is ruined, Fi is an awful partner, there aren't any NPCs of note apart from Groose, he was cool. Maybe Ghirahim, I liked his flamboyancy but he still felt a bit flat and his teleporting thing felt like they were ripping on Zant too much.
I don't think TP had a great story either but it certainly had a lot more happen throughout than Skyward Sword. Shrek fucks up Kakariko and you joust him on a bridge at fucking sunset, Midna gets fucked and you have to get her to Zelda to rescue her, Telma shoves her tits in your face, you go to some western village to fuck up some green dudes. All that happens in Skyward Sword is you make your way to the next place to collect the next thing. There's absolutely no motivation behind the plot.
>>332663330
I liked it
>>332668792
Autismo rant: continued
Overall the plot is so pointless that the climax literally has Ghirahim go "fuck it lmao" and fuck off to the past, undoing everything just so you can fight discount Ganondorf. Apart from activating that Gate of Time, which actually does nothing but help the villain here, this could well have taken place at the very start of the game with no difference.
I don't see how anyone can praise the story of Skyward Sword, it's incredibly unmotivated, has flat characters, terrible excuses for backstory and nothing memorable.
>>332668957
Why does he look like shit now?
No that's Wind Waker.
MM > OOT > WW > SS >>>> the shit i took this morning >> TP
>>332668365
>ooa > la
Eeeehh
>>332668225
I'd put both WW and TP at an 8, and MM and OOT both at 9.5, even though I like MM more.
>>332669107
It was hard for me to say it but both oracles are kind of one game of which seasons isnrhe the better half.
>>332668225
This is pretty much my ratings except SS probably more like a 5 or 6 to me. I really disliked everything about it except for the art style and some of the OST.
Just gonna leave this here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8LOkyCPNzM
>>332669348
I gave it a few points because of lanaryu desert, only reason to replay that game
I've never even touched a 3D Zelda game until around three months ago when I played them all in order.
Here's my ranking:
1. Majora's Mask / Wind Waker: I honestly can't decide which of these I like more, I had a blast with both of them and would be entirely willing to replay them multiple times.
2. Ocarina of Time: This one felt like the most balanced of all the 3D titles, but certain aspects feel a bit dated gameplay-wise. The side content doesn't seem as fleshed out but that's understandable.
3. Twilight Princess: I mostly had a lot of fun with the main storyline, minus a few pre-dungeon filler segments that were somewhat boring. Side content was disappointingly lacking though, and the segmented areas and loading screens felt like a step backwards from Wind Waker's seamless overworld design.
4. Skyward Sword: The dungeons, bosses and combat were all great. The overworld was a total chore though to the point that it actively hampered my enjoyment of the game; the sky felt utterly pointless and the provinces were way too linear for my liking. I appreciate that they tried something different, I just don't think it worked all that well.
With all that shit laid out, I'd like to clarify that I don't believe any of these are bad games.
>>332669384
God this video is so fucking bad. All about the story and not even good comments, just how there's some vague theme about "awakening" that amounts to nothing.
Like wow, characters often talk about "waking up", sick pre-high school English skills.
>>332663330
But thats not Twilight Princess
>>332664965
until the water temple, then it started rehashing ideas
>>332669384
Why does PBG talk like a simpleton? His review skills are garbage tier and he doesn't even delve that much into the game beyond saying "Well uhhh I liked the story".
e-celebs are literal cancer.
It may not be the best 3D Zelda but it sure as hell is the comfiest.
>>332670737
Because his audience is mostly 12 year olds.
>>332669581
Good taste
>>332671068
Cheers m80
>>332670917
You can't be fucking serious.
Skyward Sword is the only 3D Zelda I've played where I actively felt UNcomfortable. Everything from the corridor-esque province maps to the useless sky hub and that shitty tadtone segment just made me cringe. It didn't even have a proper day/night cycle.
>>332665360
I think its funny because prople dont realize the worst Zelda game can still be expontially better than most other nonZelda games in the same genre.
>>332664965
Buddha Temple was GOAT and the only good dungeon in the game
>>332670917
>unable to relax as Fi constantly interrupts you
>no day/night cycle
>cramped, linear environments
>sky music is loud and overbearing
Only comfy bit is Skyloft
>>332668365
>Didn't play stST is actually one of the best 2D Zeldas in the entire series.
>>332669384
>a track called "romance" plays in interactions with Zelda
>therefore their relationship is complex
Holy FUCKING shit how does this have a million views?
>>332671416
> The artstyle
> The entirety of skyloft
> Literally every side character had a side quest making it a very close-knit relationship with the residents
> Orchestrated music
> Not comfy
C'mon man, the other 3D Zeldas can't even compare.
>>332671782
I'll probably pick it up after ALBW.
>>332671684
This.
Who in their right mind would call SS "comfy"? It's like the only game in the series where it seems like the developers actually went out of their way to make you feel the exact opposite.
>>332670917
Yeah right, comfiest is ww
That's not WW.
SS is better on everything.
>>332671962
> what is majoras mask
>>332663330
Yeah. I didn't even finish it.
>>332671872
Characters in general felt pretty flat other than Groose and weren't as interesting as in Majora.
>>332672072
Not him but at least that plays to Majora's benefit. Skyward Sword almost pretends to be comfy while being constantly irritating.
>>332664850
>Worst combat
retard who couldn't into motion control detected
>worst story
None of the Zelda's have great stories but this was as good as any of them
>>332672072
top lel
The only thing uncomfy about Majora's Mask was the weird save system and maybe the pressure of timed dungeons (it certainly wasn't the slow ass 3 day system).
Everything else was top comfy.
>>332672204
Interesting isn't comfy. MM had the best NPCs but it was anything but comfy aside from a few specific instances with the threat of the moon still looming anyway.
>>332665207
Fi bothers you every 10 seconds. Really?
>>332671872
Skyloft is literally THE entirety of the sky. Even Wind Waker had at least three areas with friendlies and stuff to do. And the music was 'eh' at best. Only the Bamboo Isle, Fire Sanctuary, and the Sky had notable tunes. That's it. Another notable song that stands out is the Mining Facility, and not in a good way.
>>332672332
>motion control
Always the go-to defence of any Skyward Sword fan. Did I mention the motion control? I was referring to the combat mechanics themselves.
And no, the story is not as good as any others, read the thread.
>>332672072
The only people who hate Majora's Mask are people who try to do everything in one go. You can't and you aren't supposed to. You have to manage your time accordingly, and you can do so by slowing it down. Once you know how things work, the rest of the game is a piece of cake. And the 3DS version misses the point entirely with its changes.
>>332672385
Yeah I was just making a comment about the characters themselves.
>>332672606
No one said anything about hating Majora's mask, just that it's objectively not comfy.
>>332663330
Both the best and most flawed 3d Zelda. Fi was a mistake, but motion controls weren't despite almost needing to be recalibrated every 2-3 hours of playing or so. Too much padding and The Imprisoned was the worst boss in the series, but all the other bosses were top tier and the area's leading to the dungeons having lots of dungeon like puzzles was a great idea. The combat was sound but needed more reflex based fights. The stamina meter was shit.
>>332665207
Okay, I totally get that you could love the dungeons, characters, music, graphics, etc.
But were you not bothered by the constant backtracking? Or the constant hand holding and nagging by NPCs? Or the shitty motion controls? Or some of the shittier bosses like the forsaken or mike wazowski? Or the nonexistent overworld? Or the simon says battle system?
Oh well, even if none of that bothered you, I hope you can see why that would bother other people
>>332671872
>The artstyle
I guess I can see that.
>The entirety of skyloft
>Literally every side character had a side quest making it a very close-knit relationship with the residents
I agree with that too, but your latter point belongs in the "entirety of Skyloft" category.
>Orchestrated music
FUCK no, easily the worst soundtrack in the series.
Everything else in the game was just downright anti-comfy.
>>332673184
>but all the other bosses were top tier
Only one of them could even be considered top tier.
>>332663330
That's not Fedora's Mask.
>>332668365
>oracle games
>good
>the NES zeldas
>not the best in the series
casual as fuck
>>332672902
Can we stop using that fucking word? It's getting annoying the way people misuse it. I can play Majora and start up each day at 6:01 AM and decide if I want to do some sidequests, some dungeons or if I just want to do something for the fuck of it. The best part is at 6:01 PM, I end up going to West Clock Town and seeing the dancing sisters try to make some dance moves to that awesome music.
That was seared into my head as a twelve-year old, and it's the prime definition of 'comfy' for me. When you know what to do, you really don't feel stressed out. You know you won't get everything and can just do it over again when you save.
>>332673456
Thanks for clearing that up for me bro.
>>332663330
>SS is the worst 3D Zelda
>>332665107
>TP is the worst 3D Zelda
>>332672040
>WW is the worst 3D Zelda
>>332673406
>MM is the worst 3D Zelda
>>332667426
>OoT is the worst 3D Zelda
Soooo what you're saying is I shouldn't play any of the 3D Zeldas.
>>332673969
You should play Okami.
>>332673374
Las boss was fun and had a great puzzle to end it, Ghirahim was like the usual gannon tennis fight on steroids, 6 armed statue was great obviously, the ugly octopus medusa thing is a classic style of boss and the lead up getting out of the ship was cool, and the bowling boss was a refreshing take on the throw the bomb in the mouth style boss in Zelda games especially with how the eye would move around the body to spots still covered by rock.
>>332673892
Your welcome famidamidingdong. Git gud and stop playing easy games made by Capcom.
OoT>WW>MM>TP>SS
>>332674643
Will do senpai
>>332673523
But it IS objectively uncomfy. The main theme of the game is death, there's a literal timer, the fucking moon existing, the music is made in such a way that it unnerves the shit out of you and the entirety of the 3rd day is some of the most uncomfy shit ever.
>>332674887
>uncomfy
Once again, you're using that word. I just explained how I found the game to be 'comfy' and you're ignoring that. The basis here just boils down to:
>No, the game is uncomfy because I said so, objectively!
Maybe I don't find a problem with death, nor find it unsettling. Death brings relief to your ongoing struggle to live.
>>332668792
>>332669003
Thank you for this, I'm so sick of hearing people say SS had a good story for no reason other than because Zelda and Link show emotions once or twice.
It completely squandered the set up of an origin story and ultimately did nothing to elaborate on the origin of anything in a meaningful way. That alone makes me dislike it more than any of the other Zelda plots. That fact that it's basically just a retread of most of the same elements from past Zeldas makes it even worse.
>>332674887
>But it IS objectively uncomfy.
You don't know what objectively means and you don't know how to define a comfy game either. You fail in every regard. You have 48hrs to leave 4chan forever or else anonymous is coming for you.
___________________
"We do not forget, we will never forgive" - Ray Fawkes.
Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker are objectively worse. I know people are more into herd mentality that actual objective gameplay analysis though.
>>332674865
>playing non snk fighting games
>>332675349
In this case I'd say he's right. The game theme and visuals are made to be unnerving, and press certain buttons in our brain. The question here is, if you like that uncomfortable stuff does that make you a psycho?
>>332673969
They're actually extremely overrated. I wouldn't blame someone for not playing them.
I prefer it to any other Zelda game. The controls were fun and they worked, the boss door key puzzles were neat, the character designs were some of the best in the series, as were the dungeons.
The art direction was great, the music was great.
The stamina system was useful, and the sword beam was cool.
Yeah, the overworld was tedious, but the map system was neat. Skyloft was fun too. I can't be the only one that thought it was nice to have the academy thing going on for a bit. Daily life in Skyloft was great, not to mention the Bazaar. It's also the best looking Zelda game on a technical level.
It gets way too much hate for the smallest of things.
>>332674887
>The main theme of the game is death
Not the guy you're replying to, but so fucking what? The main theme of Twilight Princess is a bunch of creepy shitheads from some random dark bizarro world but it was still a comfy game in several regards.
The timer doesn't really mean shit to be honest, it's incredibly slow and you don't even get a game over if you let the cycle end.
>>332675092
Ok, sure but I'm using objectively as in the designers original intent. Is it not a fact that the whole purpose of the moon, the music and the general atmosphere was to make the player uncomfortable?
>>332665207
You and IGN. They called it the best Zelda game ever
>>332663330
Better than Wind Waker
>>3326652078/10 for me
>>332675636
And in that case, they failed. I love Majora's atmosphere. I love the dark, the actual dark. Looking into the starry sky with the possibility of the moon somewhere amongst them. I loved the whole atmosphere and visual design of the game. If you don't find it comfy, fine. But I gave an example as to why I liked and found it comfy.
>>332675571
>that one hipster who thinks that the 2D Zeldas are better than the 3D ones
What took you so long? You're usually here within the first ten posts.
These are the worst 3D Metroids
the best Zelda game is objectively Link'sCrossbow Training
>>332676325
Other M is hella underrated.
>>332676408
Liam pls.
>>332666192
Twilight Princess is better than Wind Waker and Skyward Sword easily. The question is how it fares against Majora's Mask and Ocarina of Time.
There is an extreme double standard when people judge Zelda games. They will give OoT a 10/10 because it was "good for its time", which is a myth, and then they'll give TP and SS lower scores, holding them to a higher standard because they're newer.
This is a fallacy because it assumes that games get better with time, which is not always true. Sometimes we see cases where the devs dump all their good ideas into the first game, so it just gets worse and worse from then on out. Sometimes we actually see a regression of gameplay concepts. People assume that a sequel will have improved gameplay mechanics, new weapons, a bigger and better world to explore, etc. but often it's not the newest game in a series that is the best. Other times, we see instances where a game becomes popular, so the devs dumb it down and make it easier for the new audience. This way, they ensure that they will walk away from the game with a positive experience, and are more likely to buy the sequel. The whiny little kids born 2000 or later often consider dying to be bad game design, and not a fault with themselves.
This being said, all games should be held to the same standard. A game shouldn't get more points for being older, as many older games not only stand up to modern games, but are in many cases BETTER than newer games. It was either never good, or it was always good. This concept of games "aging" is a myth, so a game shouldn't be held to a more lax standard because "it was good for its time". This is not relevant. The only thing that matters is whether it's good or not right now.
>>332676215
The 2D ones are extremely overrated too. Zelda 1 gets called "the best game of all time" constantly, when it sucks.
>>332672606
How did the 3ds version miss the point at all?
>>332676556
Games are good relative to what you're comparing them to. Super Mario 64 would have blown people away in 1979, and it still managed to do nearly that in 1996, which is why it's typically still regarded as the best game of all time
OOT was similar in this regard as it was pretty phenomenal when it released. SS and TP were pretty much more of the same with better graphics, and SS actually saw the series regress in multiple aspects
>>332676325
>>332676409
>>332676556
>which is a myth
Even then Skyward Sword is notably worse than Ocarina. TP can be debated and comes down to taste a lot of the time, but there's something to be said for how smoothly OOT handled the 3D transition when so many other games fucked it up.
>>332676142
Listen, I'm not arguing against you finding it comfy. I'm arguing that it was designed around being an uncomfortable experience. The target audience is children. The mask transfomation which you have to use often are grotesque and filled with links screams. Death abounds. I agree that the dancing sisters and the planetarium are pretty rad but they are a tiny part of an overall uncomfortable experience. The goofy and cool shit is used as a relief becuase you can't have the tone be grimdark the entire time.
In other words, you found it comfy subjectively while the game itself is objectively uncomfortable.
>>332676779
Don't even get them started, they'll just start ranting about how the new save system "ruins the immersion" amongst other inconsequential bullshit like the Zora swimming change.
Twilight Princess if far, far worse.
>>332672332
Nearly the entirety of the story was Link playing catchup with Zelda until she needs him to save her at the end. This is more her story than his, yet we don't play as Zelda.
Zelda stories are either terrible or generic so any Zelda game that puts major emphasis on the story is just shooting itself in the foot. Nintendo either needs to step up their game considerably when it comes to writing plots, or return to the LttP and OoT style where the plot is mostly absent and only there to give the player a general sense of purpose and direction.
>>332676973
Yeah, it all seemed like minor changes to me so i didn't get what he was saying. What did they change about the save system anyway?
>>332663330
Skyward Sword isn't great, but I have an active dislike for Twilight Princess
>>332676779
>Made the bosses so that you HAVE to attack their eyeball instead of just using what you have at your disposal
>Pointed out where to shoot your ice arrows in the water
>You can go to ANY point in time in the Bomber's Notebook, taking away the reward and progression the original game had
>Using magic to swim faster as a Zora
And there's possibly more I missed. I didn't bother with the 3DS remakes, I want them to get Zelda U out the way.
>>332677109
Majora's Mask is the only good Zelda story but it turned out really good
>>332676938
>In other words, you found it comfy subjectively while the game itself is objectively uncomfortable.
You're still missing the point.
The TONE of the story is objectively uncomfortable, yes.
The GAMEPLAY itself, including the environments and interactions, is actually pretty fucking comfy.
>>332677161
those are all incredibly minor points. you have to be trying to get mad for any of that to really bother you
why do people dislike TP? I mean is it just because its very similar in story to OOT? It has the best combat of any zelda game, it has (mostly) good dungeons, and the best sidekick. The wolf parts with the bugs were irritating, but they really didn't take up too much time. I guess people will complain about the difficulty, especially the bosses, but lets face it every zelda is pretty easy
>>332677201
Alright, this is an interesting point to make, could you explain furthur? Becuase the enviornments consist of:
A town on the verge of destruction
A poisoned swamp
A frozen tundra
A literal ghost town
Field
Also, are the interactions comfortable just because you know what's going to happen? Because the actual interactions themselves are the frontrunners in establishing the tone for the entire game, which is uncomfortable.
>>332677695
>Minor points
>Managing your time, a staple feature in the game is taken away with another feature that lets you skip every other event to get to that particular point
If they added a win button, you'd defend that, too.
>>332677103
How?
SS turned TPs faults up to 11. I can not think of how it could be better.
Underutilized gimmick.
Slow opening.
Too much dialogue.
Useless items.
Cheap villain copout.
Often annoying mandatory intermissions.
Easy combat.
Character design is a bit less revolting compared to what TP did, though in places it was still pretty bad (All those new side races look like ass and so do most of the bosses/enemies).
>>332677161
>Made the bosses so that you HAVE to attack their eyeball instead of just using what you have at your disposal
This is so fucking insignificant in the end. Hit the boss on the eye or wherever you want, it doesn't fucking matter, you're still doing the same pattern anyway. People claiming that it "butchered bossfights" are outing themselves as clueless with this one.
If you really want to dislike it, at least chose valid points. The rest is so minor, it's not even worth getting into. It's literally just listing changes anyway.
In OoT, the combat is basically just mash B to win. The puzzles are just really easy, basic, boring shit, like "push the block in the hole". More of a tech demo. 3/10
MM took the concepts laid out in OoT and did them better in every conceivable way. It has a better story, a better partner that actually has a personality and isn't annoying, you have different forms Link can switch between for more advanced combat and puzzles, and most importantly, you have actual side quests unlike in OoT. Hunting for masks is fun, and side content is mandatory for adventure games. It's not an adventure if it's a straight linear line to the end like OoT. Some try to argue that OoT is non-linear, because you can get a dungeon's item, leave the dungeon, and come back and finish it later. This would be like if somebody argued that Mario 3 was non-linear, because you can go to the end of a level, then pointlessly go back to the beginning of the level, only to go to the end again. Overall score for MM: 8/10
WW was really easy and boring. The combat and puzzles are even simpler than in OoT, plus you will have to spend several hours just on the dead, empty, lifeless ocean. This sort of gameplay relies on the player being wowed by "charm" and art style. I for one am not impressed. 2/10
TP has the best story, the best combat, the best partner, and the best puzzles in the entire series. It is clearly the best, and if you disagree you're either stupid, you have bad taste, or you're just not thinking. 9/10
SS is fun. The combat really makes the game. The motion controls are very precise, only baddies disagree (see webm). The puzzles in this game are pretty self-solving; sort of like how you walk into a room in OoT, and you just instantly know what to do, and it's just a matter of carrying it out. The puzzles are very simple in SS in this same manner. But the game is really more about the combat, story, etc. 8/10
>>332677952
It's almost like they have a guy pointing a gun at your head to use that feature. Do you also play games on easy if they have an easy mode?
>>332677952
> Ironing out gameplay so that there is less waiting times for events that you can still fail at doing.
> Equivalent to a win button.
Stop. Everything except for the eyeball thing and maybe swimming are improvements.
>>332678019
>>332677952
>>332678064
>see webm
Now for everything that isn't in that webm:
>Swimming controls
>Flying controls
>You're not allowed to target an enemy with the bow and shoot at it at the same time
>Battery life is tied into how precise your controls will be
>>332678012
You almost act like your shitty opinion has any weight on the matter. Despite the fact that those points are so arbitrary you could shoehorn them on many Zelda titles.
>>332678064
I agree except for WW. Haven't played SS
>>332678064
I disagree with OoT, but you're right with the rest. But you will get a wall of text from insecure fags trying to tell you why you're wrong, coming up with the same old copy pasted bullshit they've been trying since the beginning.
>>332678064
>OoT: 3/10
>SS: 8/10
>TP: 9/10
>>332663330
I agree, but it's my favorite. However, if you had problems with the controls, you are probably a fat tub of lard.
>>332678142
>>332678230
Looks like the kids just got out of school. The point of managing your time was crucial in Majora and with the Anju/Kafei quest, it was necessary to get their mask. It was THE main quest after stopping the moon, spanning over the entire 3-day period. Anything you do with other quests can affect things greatly to the point where you end up locking it out for that playthrough. Even when you finish it, you have very little time to enjoy it, and just enough time to stop Skull Kid. You take that struggle and experience away by making it so you can go to Sakon's hideout at the final day with just a tap of the screen.
When I was twelve like you two, I had to go through it in one go without handholding. And when I finally did everything correctly, I was not disappointed. And you wonder why people call you faggots Nintendrones.
>>332678064
If SS is about the combat then it should be graded terribly. The combat is atrocious, and not because of the motion controls.
>>332678064
The problem with TP is that its somehow even easier than WW. Its honestly a game where you should never get hit by an enemy more than once.
>>332671782
Fuck no, the train track is awful. It takes an eternity to do anything. Drags the entire thing down.
>>332678798
Except you don't have to use that feature, and then it's just as you remember. I played through the whole thing on 3ds, and guess what, I never time jumped like that.
>>332678798
What the fuck? How does it take away the struggle? You still have to do the quest. Messing up at any stage still results in you having to reset and do the whole damn thing over again. You cannot just skip to Sakons hideout without making everything that leads up to that point happen.
>>332678064
>dead, empty, lifeless
WW haters keep using those words.
They don't mean what you think they mean.
>>332678064
I have to argue that the motion controls in SS definitely varied on a case by case basis in their accuracy and offered very little in the way of feedback and comfort compared to the traditional methods.
It's like if one hypothetically identical controller could in different situations fall anywhere on the spectrum of the official brand and a madcatz knockoff.
The directional swings didn't add much in the way of depth that could not have been accomplished by simply expanding the moves available to link.
Aiming with ranged weaponry is objectively less accurate than the previous method in the TP version for Wii.
Ultimately this just slowed down combat incredibly with long tells or no difference between outright flailing and controlled swings (bokoblins, even electric bokoblins switch too fast and too randomly to direct swings) to account for the time needed to swing correctly.
The motion controlled sword had to be done but the game is still worse for using it.
>>332678325
Fine.
Why is TP worse then?
I see the reasons I cited as the problems most often named with TP and I personally think that those are some of the main failings of TP which were far more present in SS than in TP when I played it.
>>332678816
But motion controls...! They work, see the webm! If you have a problem with SS, it must be the motion controls, because you're bad at the game. You can't possibly dislike the game for any other reason!
>>332679135
>>332679175
>B-b-but you don't have to use it! It's optional!
And what shitty little kid isn't going to take the easy way out? You did, since you two are defending it.
>>332678064
i agree that TP is the best but the other ratings are stupid low
>>332679818
> Calls people shitty kids
> Has no evidence to back up his claim
I know I took that bait but since this guy is playing the elitist character, I should play the "pointless rebuttal against a guy who won't think any differently" character.
>>332676531
Edgy Zelda is the worst Zelda buddy.
>>332680340
I gave you an argument, you're the one falling back on the "You don't have to use it" copout you and every other Nintendo fanboy resorts to when you can't think of a good counter-argument.
>>332680694
I didn't argue that you didn't have to use it. How does it in anyway make the Anju quest an instant win? You still have to do each step in the process and failing any step will require you to start the whole quest line over again. It just cuts out waiting times.
I thought it was great and I really liked the motion controls
>tfw the zelda cycle is real
>>332679818
I didn't though. Does it really bother you that much what little kids are going to do with their game?
>>332681803
All that's real here is that each 3D console Zelda manages to be worse than the last. The handheld games already completely break the cycle, people are still heavily divided on TP, and I can guarantee you people will still think SS is garbage after the next Zelda releases.
>>332681929
Yes, because little shitters like that end up making games casualized in future installments just because they hate waiting for an event or can't handle not being able to win with a push of a button.
>>332682195
>people are still heavily divided on TP
People are heavily divided on all games. It only matters when you ask, not where and not who.
>>332683143
You're one insecure fag that's for sure.
>>332663330
The most important thing to me in Zelda is the dungeons, followed by overworld and items. Therefore SS is not the worst 3D Zelda for me. WW is, even though the deku leaf was top tier.
>>332665207
>10/10
You think it's perfect? Really? You love it when Fi pops up and repeats something you've just read, or explains what you've just seen? You liked Dowsing? You liked having to rotate the big keys by arbitrary angles just to unlock a boss door?
Saying this is the worst 3D Zelda is like saying Sunshine is the worst 3D Mario. It's still a fantastic game, but the rest in the series are so much better it gets overshadowed.
>>332684434
Aside from Fi being way too handholdy, yeah, I think the game is fantastic. I like the motion controls. I like the dowsing. I think the sword combat is great. The dungeons are really well designed, and yes, I do like the neat little puzzles with the boss keys.
>>332679402
Oh, I wasn't aware that I had fun sailing around on an empty ocean with several minutes between content, which sometimes just means a single enemy to fight, a useless platform with nothing on it but a butterfly necklace, etc.
Thank you for informing me that my experience with the game is not valid, and I actually had fun with it, even though I didn't.
>>332663330
SS>TP>WW fight me
>>332683267
I blame the young people
>>332663330
Arent you forgetting someone?
>>332665207
Give it another few years before the Zelda Cycle kicks in. All of /v/ hated TP before, but now it's apparently a 'good' game.
>>332688225
>tfw I bought this and legitimately thought it would be neat
>>332680540
Majora's Mask isn't the worst Zelda though.
>>332688874
>Give it another few years before the Zelda Cycle kicks in. All of /v/ hated TP before, but now it's apparently a 'good' game.
Twilight Princess was always a good game. /v/ just has shit taste and felt insulted over nothing.
>>332688225
why does this box art look like it was made by some mentally retarded 12 year old
>>332683267
OoT is pretty universally beloved. MM is very well liked. It's really at about WW where things start to get especially divided. Most people I see don't like SS. The only ones I see defending it are in the minority, and very clearly have the sort of unnatural devotion to it that comes very specifically from being in the minority.
>>332688874
>>332689280
I thought TP was amazing when it came out, then I thought it was shitty for a long time for some reason, then I played it again upon the remake being announced, and replaying it made me wonder why I hated it for so long. I now consider it the best 3D Zelda.
>>332678012
>Underutilized gimmick
>>332678012
>Useless items.
>Cheap villain copout.
>Easy combat.
>SS
What the fuck am I reading?
>>332671526
I'd also say that it has the best opening dungeon of any Zelda and the best first boss.
SS and WW are tied for worst 3D Zelda
There's so much wrong with both that it's almost entirely impossible to say one is worse than the other.
>>332665245
it looks way better on pc
>>332676662
>"the best game of all time"
I've basically never heard anyone say this, ever. It constantly, and rightly, gets praised for having a main quest that expects you to get shit done for yourself, but I've not seen anyone claim it is the GOAT vidya outright.
>>332672332
>defending wagglan gimmicks
>>332691608
Probably.
>Story
OoT > TP > MM > WW > SS
>Combat
TP > SS > WW > MM > OoT
>Dungeons
TP > SS > OoT > MM > WW
>Bosses
Oot > MM > TP > SS > WW
>Companion
TP >>>> WW > MM > OoT >>>>SS
In many ways, yeah. Probably overall too. But it's still worth the play.
>>332692174
>having a rigid universal "all motion controls is shit" view and possessing no ability to think critically on a case-by-case basis
Skyward Sword includes both good and bad motion controls though so I can't claim it's a total winner on that front
>>332693030
this is accurate
>>332693520
>>332693030
Accurate except for TP being above SS in dungeons or combat.
>>332693810
TP's dungeons are easily better than SS's dungeons.
>>332693316
Honestly this.
Good motion controls: The combat
Bad motion controls: Mostly everything else. Anything where using the analog stick would have been just as good but they felt the need to make it motion based; like flying.
>>332663330
Until the next one is out. Then people will hate that one and start talking about how Skyward Sword was actually not that bad and is underrated. Every time.
>>332677161
>You can go to ANY point in time in the Bomber's Notebook, taking away the reward and progression the original game had
Wut? The original just wastes your fucking time or otherwise encourages you to skip to points where you see a blue bar in the notebook. The changes massively improve the NPC interaction, but you fuckers constantly deny this.
>>332694195
Swimming was the worst.
>>332693030
How is OoT's story better than TP? OoT's story is actually stupid in many ways, for example, they state that opening the door of time is what allows Ganondorf to obtain the spiritual stones and ultimately conquer Hyrule, yet instead of leaving the spiritual stones separated, where they are, Link goes and assembles them all together for Ganondorf. The story is disingenuous. Why bother fighting him, why not just leave the door of time closed and never have any of the events of the game take place?
Just to be clear, I understand that they need an excuse to allow the player to go on this adventure, so I'm not actually arguing that the game shouldn't have happened or anything like that. I'm just saying this is a plothole and they could have handled it much better. Why not just say that Ganondorf's plans are already in motion, and the only way to stop him was for Link to gather the spiritual stones? The fact that Ganondorf benefits from the stones being gathered is unnecessary.
Another thing that's stupid, is how Zelda reveals herself in the temple of time and immediately gets kidnapped by Ganondorf. Why did she need to inform Link that she was disguising as Sheik at all, let alone at this particular time? Isn't this the woman with the triforce of wisdom? And then she instantly just gets kidnapped in a hilariously stupid way. If Ganondorf is that OP and can just kidnap people like that no problem, why doesn't he just do that to Link too?
TP, MM, and SS all have better stories than OoT. But I get that you just didn't want to admit that TP is the best in every single area except bosses, even though it's true.
in 15 years ss will be a cherished fan favorite and there's nothing you fags can do about it
>>332696204
>How is OoT's story better than TP? OoT's story is actually stupid in many ways, for example, they state that opening the door of time is what allows Ganondorf to obtain the spiritual stones and ultimately conquer Hyrule, yet instead of leaving the spiritual stones separated, where they are, Link goes and assembles them all together for Ganondorf. The story is disingenuous. Why bother fighting him, why not just leave the door of time closed and never have any of the events of the game take place?
Did you play the fucking game?
>>332696454
>point out something wrong with your shitty game
>you didn't play it
Typical. I've played it more than you you stupid little 12 year old fucker.
>>332696618
If you played the fucking game, you'd know that the reason you gather the spiritual stones is because Zelda fucked up. She didn't know what she was getting you into and she didn't realize it would open the way for Ganondorf.
I think it's even explicitly stated that no one could have predicted link would be locked in the sacred realm for 7 years after drawing the sword.
>>332696204
>why not say Ganondorf's plans are already in motion, and the only way to stop him was for Link to gather the spiritual stones?
They did. The Deku tree, the gorons, and the Zora were under duress. I don't know if they ever say explicitly that this is Ganons doing, but I think it's fairly clear. Their plan was to open the door of time before ganon could, which is a stupid plan because yeah, you just did ganons work for him, but keep in mind this was a plan conducted by a ten year old. Your correct about Zelda being kidnapped being a copout though. Also having to wait 7 years because no way a 10 year old can kill Ganon but a 17 year old can just fine, nevermind the fact that Gannon has now gained in power for 7 years.
>>332663330
It is.
I have no idea why people defend this game. The hand holding is at its worst, the story is the most prominent its ever been, the retarded highschool hijinks drag out the beginning for hours and even after the game opens up, it never really felt like it actually started because the overwhelming amount of interruptions. The sky islands were pathetic, the bosses are recycled, and the areas are recycled. It had some merit but overall it's the worst so far.
>>332697114.
>but keep in mind this was a plan conducted by a ten year old.
A 10 year old with the triforce of "wisdom".
>Also having to wait 7 years because no way a 10 year old can kill Ganon but a 17 year old can just fine, nevermind the fact that Gannon has now gained in power for 7 years.
I think it's also worth bringing up that an 8 year old later kills him in Wind Waker, which just makes me wonder why a kid is good enough to kill Ganondorf sometimes, but not other times.
>>332697474
Technically, Zelda doesn't get the Triforce of Wisdom until after the Sacred Realm is opened
>>332663330
Except it was better than Twilight, Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks. Still not what a Zelda game should be though.
>>332697114
>Also having to wait 7 years because no way a 10 year old can kill Ganon
When they tried that Link died in the final battle, hence the Downfall Timeline. That's why this is the only time Link needs to grow up to use the Master Sword, because he would have died if he didn't.
>>332669384
>Goes on about the chemistry between Link and Zelda
I'll bet this fag never played Spirit Tracks
>>332693986
You know I wrote out a post that neared the character limit and I realized you are right. I think SS is more consistently good, but TP peaks higher and just has more content so even if some of that content is of a lesser quality than SS's the volume makes up for it. Goron Mines is one of the worst 3D dungeons though.
>>332674050
>Skyward Sword tier handholding
>Skyward Sword tier never-ending cutscenes and dialogue
>Skyward Sword tier drawing controls
>Skyward Sword tier forced mini-games
Okami was shit.
>>332698147
The Zelda bits were great, and I wish more Zelda games would give the titular character something to actually do. The train gimmick really pulled that game down though
>>332698940
>The Zelda bits were great, and I wish more Zelda games would give the titular character something to actually do
At least we have Hyrule Warriors
>The train gimmick really pulled that game down though
I liked it more than other Zelda travel gimmicks
>>332699024
>Hyrule Warriors
>not allowed to use skyloft zelda costume with sheik and the harp because they patched the weapon swap glitch
>master quest adventure mode throws weapon swapped characters at you constantly
KT can be so cruel sometimes.
>>332699024
It's like a horse, except you have to stay on the tracks
>>332699530
I don't care. Tetra's better anyway and now I've got her along with Skull Kid and Twili Midna
It's amazing to think of how shitty the roster was at launch
>>332699667
But it's also accompanied by arguably the single best piece of music in the franchise
>>332678064
>Some try to argue that OoT is non-linear, because you can get a dungeon's item, leave the dungeon, and come back and finish it later.
Oh please, I BTFO of you before on this, there's no need for you to repeat this pasta.
>>332699739
>It's amazing to think of how shitty the roster was at launch
Speak for yourself. Link's fire rod and gauntlets were cool, Sheik had a nice gimmick, Rapier Zelda was an early power house for me, I really liked Deku Spear Lana, and Ganondorf is a beast.
I hated some characters until I learned to play them, like Zant or Darunia and now both of them are top tier for me. Midna, Fi, and Ruto are often called shit but they're just crowd based instead of boss/general based. I just liked Ruto from the get go.
Ghirahim was the one character I never used, until I finally got around to playing SS. Now he's up there for me. Even though I did learn how to play Agitha, she's the only original character I'd call flat out bad, probably along with Fi though to a lesser extent.
>>332681240
>It just cuts out waiting times.
I don't get it either, MM faggots act like there was some kind of great honor in waiting around while not having anything else to do in case you missed something. The new system entourages more freeform exploration of NPC events, not less, yet they keep finding the most ass-retarded ways to spin things as if the reverse was the case.
>>332700386
Ganondorf and Darunia were the only launch characters that did anything for mw
>>332699667
>It's like a horse, except you have to stay on the tracks
So basically, the same as Epona in Twilight Princess.
>>332678064
Attack 4: Link attacks well after the player has slashed down.
Attack 8: The player swings the wiimote and nunchuck down, Link spin attacks upwards.
Attack 10: Player slashes near horizontally, Link attacks at a steep angle.
Attack 11/12/13: Link stabs slightly late (Link only starts stabbing when the players arm is already at full extension)
Attack 14: Link stabs extremely late (The player has already retracted his arm before Link even starts moving).
Attack 15/16/19/20/21/22/23: Same as 11/12/13. Link stabs late. 17 and 18 seem a bit better.
Most of these are just serious input lag on the thrust attack, but attack 8 is a total misread. Link literally attacks in the opposite direction from the direction the player moved the remote
>>332663330
This was the best zelda imho. Why is it hated so much? It was comfy af. Boss battles where top tier. What's with all the hate? Is this a /v/ thing?
>>332700625
I can't kill fucking deku babas because apparently all my attacks are slightly diagonal
>>332700995
That's your fault for being stupid. There are many ways to kill deku babas. Tricks below if you want to know.Stab is a non angular strike.Spin attack is always completely horizontal or vertical and you can choose which side you want to spin to (if Ghirahim is trying to catch the sword on your right, spin attack to that same direction and you'll hit him on the other side while also avoiding his hand).Skyward strikes power up spin attacks
>>332700995
okay lets get this straight, you have a complain on the motion controls? Did you have the new motion wii mote? or did you start with the old one? I did not have an issue with the motion controls at all with the upgraded wii mote.
>>332678064
This guy was an idiot but the motion controls for this game is ass. This game gains nothing from having them thats what pissed me off even more.
All I wanted was a zelda game with more of a emphasis on combat and when it does happen its strictly motion. Its some kind of sick fucking joke.
>>332693030
There were only 3 dungeons from SS worth mentioning, and one of those three is only worth mentioning because of the way it looks and not because of the actual dungeon design, while the other two are only worth mentioning because of the time shifting gimmick. I wouldn't say it has very noteworthy dungeons, certainly not enough to take the number 2 spot.
>>332668365
>tp
>better than anything
TP is so fucking bland...
>>332701530
>Ghirahim is trying to catch the sword on your right, spin attack to that same direction and you'll hit him on the other side while also avoiding his hand
I had the game running because of this thread and decided to try this. I feel so fucking stupid right now. This works so well it makes the first Ghirahim fight feel like a hack'n'slash battle.
>>332663330
The DS ones are worse. The stylus controls were gay as fuck.
>>332702204
The stylus controls overlapped a lot, that was the main issue. It showed plenty innovation though. In terms of puzzles they were some of the best and controlling items like the bombchu and boomerang was pretty cool too.
They should have made the movement button based, it would create less overlapping commands and would be better overall.
why is zelda such an overrated series?
they are all good, except for PH
but none of them are 10/10 or even 9/10 worthy
>>332704067
Becausethat's your opinion
>>332704067
>but none of them are 10/10
OoT is the one game that is truly a 10/10 and rightly deserves its praise.
>>332704067
Based on the other games released near them, Zelda 1, Link's Awakening and Ocarina were all worth 9/10 scores. If not 10/10.
If you're comparing an NES game to a game on the PS4, you're just dumb. Though even then, the first Zelda game is still better than many games that try to copy it like 3D Dot Hero or Binding of Issac.
>>332678064
>TP has the best story, the best combat, the best partner, and the best puzzles in the entire series.
I've never heard so much wrong in one sentence. TP barely beats out SS for worst Zelda due to being one of the most predictable and the easiest game to date. It also started the shitty anime trope jamboree that Skyward Sword would later follow.
>>332704067
Spirit Tracks is a 10/10 for trains and having the best companion of any title, Zelda herself.
>>332705608
I actually loved Spirit Tracks (including the trains) but it's an 8.5/10 at best
>>332705715
>8.5
That I can agree with, but I add on the extra 1.5 because it does something no other title has done, actually focus on the relationship of the two main characters and keep it consistent throughout.
>>332705278
This. TP and SS both have the same flaws. Too much focus on story and lore, endless NPC dialogue, linear zones remove all exploration, spirit orb collecting, forced side quests, etc.
Skyward Sword was just slightly less bad.
>>332705149
It's an ugly, clunky, polygon-filled mess of video game conventions. It doesn't matter that it started those conventions, because they're bad now. Remove nostalgiafags.
>>332706365
I'm going to assume this post is satire because even my little /v/ can't be this cute
>>332706078
>>332705278
How do you anons rank WW and MM?
>>332706941
I'm barely joking. It's up there with RE4 for most overrated game of all time. Every single other 3D Zelda is inarguably better than OOT in every way but story and music and maybe level design (then it's a matter of opinion).
>>332707478
Ocarina of Time = Legend of Zelda > Link's Awakening > Zelda 2 > Link to the Past = The Minish Cap > Oracles > Wind Waker > Skyward Sword > Majora's Mask > a sharp stick in the eye > Spirit Tracks > Phantom Hourglass > Twilight Princess
>>332707478
Majora's Mask is good if not tedious. Wind Waker is up there with Ocarina of Time for being one of my favorite console Zelda titles because of the mechanics and concepts it introduced.
>>332707553
tryingtoohard.jpg
Just wait for the HD
>>332663330
3D Zeldas have been progressively getting worse and worse over time
OoT: Great
MM: Good
WW: Okay
TP: Mediocre
SS: Shit
>>332707553
I agree that it's overrated as all hell, because nothing can be as good as it's claimed to be. But it's still a paragon of excellence in gaming IMO
>>332688225
That's not a Zelda game. It's a Link game.
>>332707819
>>332707923
I played it in the Gamecube collection. It's a good game, but it didn't change my life or make me a fan of the series, like WW did.
>>332707907
I laughed, but I agree. I'll actually buy another Nintendo console for SS HD.Pokemon D/P/Pt full remake when?
>>332708491
Because he projects himself into shitty, forced romance
>>332708651
>/v/
>knowing anything about actual romance
>>332709210
No, but I do understand the basic idea of "show, don't tell" story telling. The game simply forces the notion that Link and Zelda are in love with no effort to truly invest the player into the relationship nor any sort of payoff in the end
>>332709397
It also forces the notion that you are the hero of time, and no one seems to complain about that.
The Legend Of Zelda isn't about Zelda; it's about the Legend.
>>332706078
>>332705278
You guys are both wrong. Twilight Princess is better than Skyward Sword and Wind Waker.
>>332704067
>they are all good, except for PH
>but none of them are 10/10 or even 9/10 worthy
Opinion invalidated
>>332709704
>The Legend Of Zelda isn't about Zelda; it's about the Legend.
The first 5 Zelda games were 'the same story told in a new way'. Every game since Majora's Mask has been 'Timeline, lore, everything is connected, succession of Zeldas!'
The 'Legend' of Zelda died on the N64. The game should be called The Ongoing Lineage of Zelda.
>>332710004
>The Zelda family Tree
>The Legend Feat. Zelda
>Legend 3 & Zelda
answer this zeldrones:
In TP when you have to get the 2nd mirror shard from the temple of time, are you traveling back in time to the OOT temple of time or are you going to an alternate dimension? If it's the former, it's inconsistent with OOT's timetravel (Adult link could travel back in time as Adult link) and if it's the latter, how did the shards and dominion rod get in there?Checkmate.
>>332668225
>TP not getting an 8.8
Fagot
>>332710525
idk lol its a video game i just pushed buttons and killed enemies and shit
>>332710525
With Aonuma's stupid timeline, there are two split timelines. One where the hero in Ocarina of Time beat Ganon and another where the hero died. Pretty much all the Aonuma games since Majora's Mask have been on the 'Hero Won' side. So both Twilight Princess and Wind Waker are connected, but not relatable to stuff like Zelda 1, 2 or Link to the Past.
And that's the last I will talk about the timeline because it killed Zelda.
>>332663330
Correct, my senpai
>>332710880
why do people get so mad about the arrangement of the official timeline? the only thing to complain about is that they released it. it was fun to come up with your own wacky theories.
>>332667986
>she makes it a non-game.
How?
>>332710974
1. It is Aonuma justifying how his games are 'separate' from the past Zelda games.
2. Each game since the timeline has become a thing has had more and more emphasis on justifying its existence in that timeline. With games like Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword spending hours with cutscenes explaining how they relate to Ocarina. If this continues, soon 3/4 of a Zelda game will just be about establishing its connection to the timeline. Instead of you know...its own story and exploration.
3. The timeline limits future games to being made only if they can relate to the timeline in some way.
4. It led to completely stupid shit like Demise.
>>332710525
>are you traveling back in time to the OOT temple of time
Same building but way after OoT takes place, even when you are in TP's past. I don't see an issue.
I think I'm misunderstanding the post.
>>332676531
twilight princess is a travesty with zero difficulty
at least wind waker had charm
at least skyward sword had fun gameplay
twilight princess has nothing
>>332693030
Honestly ive had more fun with WW than any of the 3D loz. I fucking love a link to the past though im sad it doesnt get a lot of recognition
>>332711609
>1. It is Aonuma justifying how his games are 'separate' from the past Zelda games.
Wouldn't that be a good thing to the people who hate Aonuma so much?
>>332712248
It just kind of justifies their hate for Aonuma. Since it shows he is going out of his way to change Zelda and ignore the past games. Which even he has admitted by saying he never enjoyed the 2D Zelda game (or even finished one).
It would be one thing if this guy was just a designer or programmer. But he basically has control of the whole series now. Would you give entire control of a series like Mario or Pokemon to a guy who never even looked at the past games?
>>332712476
It's only Zelda 1 that he said that about, if you were mistakenly informed.
>>332712768
And yet he's now claiming that Zelda U taking inspiration from Zelda 1. So he's trying to make a new game based on a game he never liked or finished. Yeah, this is going to turn out well.
>>332711983
The point I'm making is that TP Link traveled back in time to a point where he didn't exist yet whereas OOT Link had to age and deage himself to get what he needed from both timelines.
>>332713073
Honestly I'm pumped about that. You can take inspirations from key tenets of the game while also thinking that it was too obtuse and punishing.
>>332713213
TP Link also traveled by walking through a Door of Time and not with the Pedestal of Time, not in the same way anyway.
>>332694754
Spoken like a true casual. You can do other things to wait until the event you're trying to trigger comes up, and you can speed time back to normal to help with it. No excuses, the remake casualized the game.
post good designs
>>332714270
I don't think I ever noticed that. I knew it was eyes, but not what kind of eyes.
>>332712178
nta
Best dungeons out of those three games though.
>>332663330
WW exists
this steaming pile is by far the worst Zelda game I've ever played.
>>332669581
Finally some nice review without barfing memes away.
They are al very good,
I did found some moments in TP to be kind of tedious, but the main storyline is pretty good as you say.
I also did like SS pretty much, didn't really care for handholding that much. People here make sucha great deal about this when the main storyline is pretty good aswell, the overwold IS very lacking. Ompared to what it could have been. I always hated that the overwold map is literally useless since you can't cross the delimited sections of each area, which was a real let down.
The dungeoms were astounding and really well planned. And the monsters inc. Boss was the worst mistake for this franchize imo
>>332663330
Minish Cap > Twilight Princess > Wind Waker = Ocarina of Time > Link Between Worlds > Skyward Sword > Majora's Mask > Link to the Past > Zelda 1 > Zelda 2 > Phantom Hourglass
I never played the other ones
>>332663330
Triforce Heroes is the worst 3D Zelda out of the 4 that exist.
>>332720323
>I first played Zelda in 2006
Prove me wrong
>>332720516
more like late 90's but okay, im sorry i dont praise MM as much as the next person
>>332713582
> literally defensing a game making you sit around waiting for minutes on end
>>332717969
loz ds games were the most horrible goat pile of shit ive ever played in my entire life.
and im a farmer
>>332699765
OoT is linear. Choosing between the shadow temple and the spirit temple isn't non-linearity, because you have to do them both eventually. Likewise, leaving any dungeon early with the item is pointless, and does nothing but disrupts your thought process. If you were to get the bow, then go do the fire temple first, it would be pointless. It's more time efficient to just go ahead and finish the forest temple while you're in there. There's no logical reason or any kind of real benefit to doing them out of order, and therefore, it's not real non-linearity.
MM is non-linear because it has side quests, optional content, and not every player will have roughly the same experience by the time the game is over, like you would in OoT.
Oh, and people who try to argue that "OoT has side quests" disgust me. Go ahead and tell me about how the sword fetch quest and Epona are totally enough side quests, and how the fishing hole counts as a "side quest" too (yes, I've actually seen OoT fanboys try to argue this before).
>>332721636
While Ocarina has less freedom than games before it, it is 100x less linear than a game like Twilight Princess or Skyward Sword. Which literally lock you into one zone with 'Twilight walls' or story events.
At least in Ocarina, you have the option of getting Epona and the Bigorons sword whenever you want. And you have the option of going down the well and doing the shadow temple early. Or you can do the Geredo village before any temples. Etc. Yet if it was a game like Twilight Princess, you could only do exactly what the game tells you to do at that time. You don't even have the option to skip the Water Temple and go get the Master Sword first. Nope, you have to do the Water Temple first because story is more important than exploration.
>>332721636
>MM is non-linear because it has side quests, optional content
Ocarina of Time has both of these things too. And Majora's makes you do many things in order.
Fi was annoying but i liked everything else her designand she's cute
fgt me fgots
>>332722925
The only good thing about Twilight Princess was Midna.
The only real bad thing about Skyward Sword was Fi.
>>332723087
So wrong it hurts
>>332723087
>The only real bad thing about Skyward Sword was Fi.
and the "world map"
and most of the areas in the game
and half the bossfights
>>332723290
>and the "world map"
>and most of the areas in the game
>and half the bossfights
You realize you just described TP.
>>332663330
The dungeons were fine, but everything else was just subpar.
The combat was handicapped by the move controls. Twilight Princess had more offensive moves than this game. The game had fetch quest after fetch quest to artifically increase the runtime. (Oh no Link, first you need to go down there and search for this random item I dropped).
The story was shite, but childhood friend/romantic interest Zelda was cute and a nice version of the character.
Best overall game is still OoT.
Best dungeon and boss variety, and a good deal of them, too.
Best pacing of all of the 3D Zeldas by a long shot.
Memorable story with its dark, light and humorous moments at times, and a charming cast of characters.
Extremely iconic music.
It's only real downfall was the side quests department, but even then there were some things going for it.
MM came extremely close, surpasses OoT in many aspects even - but fell short in the pacing and dungeon quantity.
WW is where things started to fall apart. It had a great and fresh art style, pretty good and a charming atmosphere But this made up for the game's rushed parts, poor beginning segment, poor dungeons and piss-easy difficulty. The Triforce hunt padding segment didn't help either.
TP really only had dungeons and bosses going for it. Only a few memorable characters, Midna obviously being the strongest one due to her presence. Some good side quests, but they still paled in comparison to MM and WW before it. Abysmal pacing in the first third of the game. More padding segments than WW thanks to the wolf form.
SS was pretty much a disaster. Horrible and inconsistent art design. Bosses and dungeons were hit and miss. Dumb story that retcons the lore with characters that were more or less anime cutouts. Only 3 real environments and one town. Worst pacing and padding out of all of the console games. Combat quickly became repetitive over time.
>>332723290
>and the "world map"
the world map has more to do than TP. and yes, the actual overworlds on the surface count. the sky is merely an extra area that connects them. it's about as full of stuff to do as the actual ocean in the wind waker.
>and most of the areas in the game
most of the areas are fantastic and fun to play through
>and half the bossfights
there's literally only one bad boss
>>332671416
>corridor-esque
Which e-celeb created this meme, then?
>>332723913
>TP really only had dungeons and bosses going for it.
And visuals, music, combat, overworld and exploration.
>>332723945
In Twilight Princess, the 'overworld' is a single zone that just connects all the other zones. Which you can ride though literally 1 minute using Epona, it is that small. Plus, the game gives you a warp function to skip it.
In this way, the sky in Skyward Sword is basically the same as the overworld in Twilight Princess. Though you aren't allowed to skip the sky with a warp option.
Its so sad when Zelda has become to watered down, we're talking about which overworld is less intrusive and meaningless.
>>332724272
>TP
>Visuals
>Music
>overworld
>exploration
All the precise things Twilight Princess sucked at.
>>332664965
It had one good dungeon, the rest were really forgettable.
>>332724417
>In Twilight Princess, the 'overworld' is a single zone that just connects all the other zones.
Except that's wrong. The overworld isn't just Hyrule Field. It's the entirety of Hyrule outside of dungeons/temples/caves.
In fact, that applies more to Wind Waker than anything else.
>>332724530
I guess the other Zelda games sucked even more in those departments then.
>>332724710
>Except that's wrong. The overworld isn't just Hyrule Field. It's the entirety of Hyrule outside of dungeons/temples/caves.
That's not how it works. In Ocarina of Time, there was a clear distinction between Hyrule Fields and the rest of the areas. As it was a central zone that connected all the other zones.
Twilight Princess copied this. And made that central hub zone meaningless. Which Aonuma himself admitted. Which is why he's focusing so hard on making a huge overworld for Zelda U. Though it remains to be seen if that overworld will be good or not.
>>332724570
Two actually.
Ancient Cistern and the Sandship were great.
Lanayru Mines was decent
Earth Temple and Fire Sanctuary were okay.
Sky Temple was meh.
Sky Keep was awful.
It's a little better than Wind Waker. Not super high praise, though.
>>332724985
>Ancient Cistern
It had a neat theme but it wasn't great. Without the graphics it would be completely forgettable.
I only finished it because Link and Zelda were goddamn adorable together.
Like best video game couple in recent memory.
>>332724272
>visuals
Yes, I guess. The gameCube's hardware couldn't properly portray its art style though.
>music
Nope.
>combat
Nope. Got kind of repetitive and the skills were essentially useless
>overworld and exploration
Ahahahahahaahhaaha
>>332679493
Kill yourself. Discounting the motion controls, the combat is essentially the same shit as the rest of them.
>>332725275
Check this shit out: I'm going to talk about your favorite Zelda game.
>visuals
Yes, I guess. The [Nintendo Console] hardware couldn't properly portray its art style though.
>music
Nope.
>combat
Nope. Got kind of repetitive and the skills were essentially useless
>overworld and exploration
Ahahahahahaahhaaha
>>332725501
Look I know you're probably 21 and under and that TP was your babby's first introduction to the series, but Twilight Princess wasn't memorable or iconic at all in those areas. It really isn't. It's just a rehashed OoT and not even a good one at that.
>>332725715
Look I know you're probably 21 and under and that [Your favorite Zelda game] was your babby's first introduction to the series, but [Your favorite Zelda game] wasn't memorable or iconic at all in those areas. It really isn't. It's just a rehashed [older Zelda game] and not even a good one at that.
>>332725275
>The gameCube's hardware couldn't properly portray its art style though.
The artstyle is exactly the same in the HD port on Wii U, but with improved textures and resolutions. Clarity and aliasing was the issue, not artstyle.
>Nope
Its purely subjective. I really liked the OST.
>combat
>Nope. Got kind of repetitive and the skills were essentially useless
Reptitive in what way? The hidden skills were not useless. They had plenty of uses
>Ahahahahahaahhaaha
Twilight Princess has the best overall overworld design of any 3D Zelda. Aside from the entire Snowpeak and Ikana Canyon sections in Majora's Mask, along with the surface (not sky) in Skyward Sword.
>>332664965
Buddha temple is best temple. The boss battle was one of the few times the motion controls were fun to use.
>>332663330
Second worst behind Majora's Mask.
>>332665349
Zant was a damn cool fight. Tons of variety. It was like a boss rush, only completely new.
>>332665207
>I really enjoyed the use of motion controls, minus the balancing segments.
>>332723913
nice blog
>>332720323
>Not a sign of Link's aweakining
this reeks of underage
>>332663330
It'll never be worse than OoT.
>>332724985
Sky Keep is probably one of the best final dungeons in the series. It's certainly better than any of the "final" dungeons from any of the other 3D games.
>>332720323
>Wind Waker = Ocarina of Time
>>332725398
Except for things like having to attack enemies from certain directions, you know, the main gimmick the game is built on. And the overpowered shield bash thing, too.
>>332726150
>>332725275
The art style was just ugly. Doesn't matter if it was a Pixar film. The characters looked horrid and everything was made brown on purpose.
>>332684434
>You liked having to rotate the big keys by arbitrary angles just to unlock a boss door?
I'm not sure why people had an issue with it. It's a tiny little puzzle that actually makes the boss key into something other than a generic skeleton key.
>>332721636
>Choosing between the shadow temple and the spirit temple isn't non-linearity, because you have to do them both eventually.
This is one of the stupidest things I've ever read in a Zelda thread.
>>332698814
>>332674050
I'd argue that it does the listed things worse than Skyward Sword, especially the handholding. Skyward Sword has an absurd amount of handholding outside of dungeons, but at least makes some form of effort to respect your intelligence inside the dungeons (even if the hint stones are irritating). Okami doesn't care where you are, nor does it care how insanely basic the puzzle is - you're getting a hint.
>>332728039
The final dungeon of the game was essentially one big block puzzles. And while I generally hate block puzzles, that dungeon made it work. While on the flip side, Twilight Princess made you do tons of shitty puzzles just to stall for time. Especially that horrid memory puzzle before you could get the Master Sword. Even from a 'lore' perspective, it makes no sense why two statues would make you do a puzzle when they know you are the hero. It was just stupid on every level.
>>332724948
Most people consider the overworld to be everything outside of a dungeon, or maybe towns too, in Zelda games. Hubs and overworlds are different. The Sacred Forest Meadow in OoT is part of its overworld, but not its Hyrule Field hub.
>>332727606
>Tons of variety. It was like a boss rush, only completely new.
It's the same thing strategy to win with different models, so not much variety there and it sure as fuck isn't completely new. Some fights like the Lakebed Temple boss are much worse than their dungeon version.
>>332666031
>I think Cragma from Spirit Tracks (the boss where you have to get on the mine cart and target his weak spots with the bow) did a similar concept better.
Yes and no. I think Cragma had a much better sense of scale, but it's a lot more possible to get into a situation where it takes too long to actually get onto the cart. Those games had surprisingly good boss fights and dungeons, given their reputation.
>>332728290
I agree that Sky Keep makes its overall puzzle work, but moreover, it has an incredible item encore, making the player use the vast majority of Link's arsenal to solve the relevant puzzles.
I sort of agree with what you're saying about TP - in games that are akin to modern Zelda, I don't understand why developers feel the need to put in generic puzzles or challenges that refuse to use the game's unique mechanics - like the one you mentioned, or some sort of dumb Simon says nonsense, or some Lost Woods derivative.
>>332728345
The point is that in older Zelda games, there wasn't a hub at all. You just had one overworld and dungeons. Starting with Ocarina of Time, you had an overworld of sorts. But in actuality, it was a series of linear zones connected by one hub zone in the middle.
Basically, in a game like Link to the Past, walking past the church and into Kakariko Village, there is no transition. They are clearly attached to the same overworld. While in a game like Ocarina or Twilight, you have a clear transition between 'Hyrule Field' and 'Kakariko Village'. Not only a loading screen and a completely seperate area, but also a cutscene the first time you enter. And in the case of Twilight, multiple cutscenes.
>>332727606
It's really a very basic fight, for the impression it leaves. I think it's more made by its presentation than anything else.
>>332684434
>You liked Dowsing?
What's wrong with dowsing?
>You liked having to rotate the big keys by arbitrary angles just to unlock a boss door?
That's not what "arbitrary" means.
>>332728885
You could have stopped after the first part where you explain what you're talking about. That second bit was a bunch of shit that doesn't matter to gameplay, even getting rid of all that transition shit wouldn't fix what you actually have a grip with which is the linearity of it all.
>>332728946
>What's wrong with dowsing?
While I strongly enjoy Skyward Sword (to the point that I've played it twice over), I think it's better the second time around because you're not having to dowse for things. Dowsing serves as a way to slow the pace a little, and while this isn't necessarily a bad thing, when its stacked on top of the travel time of flight, that can be kind of a pain.
Upon replay, the game's pacing speeds up significantly because you already know the location of your various dowsing objects (the pinwheel, the water, the spirit realm gates, etc.), and so you're simply able to drop down near your objective and move forward. For this reason, among some others, I actually enjoyed my second playthrough of the game more than my first.
>>332729624
I had the same feeling about the soul/note collecting. The first time I played it, it was a chore. But the second time I played the game, I was able to do it in one try. Literally just 5 minutes each. The hours of dialogue is really the thing that kills a replay of Skyward Sword.
>>332729809
Which is why the game is best played with cheats enabled, mainly the shut Fi up cheat, the cheat that offers 1000x text speed, and the cheat that has the bird constantly flying at boost speed.
>>332729624
>Upon replay, the game's pacing speeds up significantly because you already know the location of your various dowsing objects (the pinwheel, the water, the spirit realm gates, etc.), and so you're simply able to drop down near your objective and move forward. For this reason, among some others, I actually enjoyed my second playthrough of the game more than my first.
So instead of using dowsing to gradually figure out where things are, you'd just prefer a map indicator the first time around?
See I don't see dowsing as slowing down gameplay, but speeding it up by giving you a direction instead of nothing. Now of course just knowing, either by memory or waypoint, would be faster but I don't think as enjoyable. Dowsing is the happy medium between cryptic NPC hints/getting lost and the game just telling you on the map where something is with no input from you.
It's not like dowsing is really so deep of a mechanic, but it's optional and at least it's better than a GPS type path or map waypoint.
On the topic of map waypoints, beacons where great and part of that is how they work in conjunction with dowsing.
>>332730019
The problem, more than anything else, is the context of the dowsing. If you were going into an intense action section, intense puzzle section, then needed a break, a dowsing section could easily and simply pull together the pacing in such a way that the player's not getting burnt out by any particular part. However, because you spend so much time doing various OTHER in-between activities (flight, speaking to NPCs to enable the dowsing quest), it ends up feeling more like filler than a relaxation period. I'm not sure that pre-defined waypoints would be the way to go, but I do think that something a little more player-driven would help the player feel a little more agency during those sections, rather than feeling like the game's just sort of holding their hand and pulling them loosely in the direction of their objective.
>>332730776
People who want it as filler shouldn't use dowsing.
People who want to hurry to the next dungeon/item/cutscene should dowse, to skip over it faster.
It's not rocket science. It's like people complaining that the Exp. Share made things too easy in Pokemon X/Y. Then fucking turn it off, dingus.
>>332731030
>People who want it as filler shouldn't use dowsing.
It doesn't work that way. Without dowsing, you have absolutely no impetus or direction. The game is explicitly designed for players to use the dowse. Not dowsing could easily make that sort of section take an hour, for what is, in some cases, and irritatingly small payoff.
>People who want to hurry to the next dungeon/item/cutscene should dowse, to skip over it faster.
No, if they want to go faster, they should ask someone where the item they're looking for is. If you're unfortunate in where you choose to land, a dowsing section can take 10-20 minutes because the player is aimlessly wandering with only a direction, and this can only get you so far when you land on the wrong side of the map.
>It's not rocket science. It's like people complaining that the Exp. Share made things too easy in Pokemon X/Y. Then fucking turn it off, dingus.
It's not about things being too easy. It's about the game being designed around the feature. It's about the player picking between "boring and sort of slow-paced section where the game is holding my hand" and "INSANELY slow-paced section where I have absolutely no idea where I'm going"
>>332663330
Fuck you. It was great.
>>332720564
so people who play twilight princess listen to kanye west and scratched poker chips
there's something i'm missing here
>>332729809
>I had the same feeling about the soul/note collecting.
It seems like a lot of people thought the tadtones were awful or at least annoying. What was it about that section in particular that was so bad?
You say it was better the second time because you did it in one try and it was faster. So maybe it was something about finding them or failing a couple time?
>The hours of dialogue is really the thing that kills a replay of Skyward Sword.
Tell me about it, the weirdest things are skippable. At least a lot of the beginning has the option. Honestly I haven't skipped anything that was actually skippable while wishing I could just ignore some of those text boxes.
>die on scaldera in hero mode
>none of the ghirahim dialogue is skippable
>short scene of the rock rolling down and cracking to become scaldera are
>>332732612
FOr me, the tadtones part was bad not because of how long or hard it was to do it (because it wasn't hard at all). It was more about how it stalled the flow of the game to a crawl. Nothing is worse to me in a game like Zelda then suddenly being told I have to do some sliding block of 'find it' puzzle.
When you play it a second time, you already know how to clear it so you do it quickly. But the first time, it feels like pulling teeth.
But that's just my personal opinion. I know to a lot of people, doing the puzzles and fetch quests is why they like Zelda. For me, that (and the forced cutscenes) is what I dislike in modern Zelda.
>>332730776
I'm sorry, are you saying that because there are other sidequests you choose to fill up time between fights and dungeons that then dowsing feels like filler? How does dowsing feel like filler at all? I don't understand that at all.
You talk about dowsing as hand holding and don't think waypoints are better. You realize what every other zelda game uses instead of dowsing? Waypoints.
>>332663330
That statement implies that there are good 3D Zeldas...
>>332731682
Link's legs don't break if you don't dowse anon. The game still has the linear path forward, are you so scared of getting lost that you feel compelled to dowse even though you hate it and want more agency? Do you feel compelled to use the gossip stones too? Just use dowsing when you absolutely need it (probably only 1 or 2 instances and even then it still isn't required but only to save time) and don't just follow it around only to complain about the hand holding later.
>No, if they want to go faster, they should ask someone where the item they're looking for is. If you're unfortunate in where you choose to land, a dowsing section can take 10-20 minutes because the player is aimlessly wandering with only a direction, and this can only get you so far when you land on the wrong side of the map.
What the fuck situation in the actual game are you talking about? You can keep making this kind of "oh a section could balloon by 20 minutes!" claim but just use specifics instead of hiding behind vague assertions.
>"INSANELY slow-paced section where I have absolutely no idea where I'm going"
This is exactly what other Zelda games do. Just like other zelda games games you talk to NPCs or companions to find out where to go. The only time that comes to my mind that you'd really want to dowse is the fire temple key pieces.
>>332731682
>he's too young to remember when games featured directionless exploration
Jeez. You're dumb.
>>332733087
>Nothing is worse to me in a game like Zelda then suddenly being told I have to do some sliding block of 'find it' puzzle.
You should probably find a new series to play.
It seems like you'd rather know where things are so you can get to the next boss battle quicker. That isn't what any Zelda game is about.
What do you play Zelda for if it isn't puzzles?
http://strawpoll.me/7234235
>>332733886
>You realize what every other zelda game uses instead of dowsing?
>every other zelda game
no
>>332733886
Correct! If you have too much slow-paced or same-y content in a given section of game, then that content will start to feel like filler. Otherwise, it's an integral part of pacing. That's why the arbitrary key hunts in games like DMC and Bayonetta exist - to help the player ease off from the high level of action. However, if those games had, say, 20 straight minutes of key hunting, it would be boring - it would be filler.
Dowsing in particular feels like filler because you're retreading ground you've already been over, and you're not doing so in any sort of unique way, like you might be doing with the spirit realm challenges, or the third visit to Eldin.
>>332734827
There's a difference between exploring somewhere new and looking for the places you've never been, searching for clues to environmental puzzles and the like (which is the case for the first Zelda), and retreading the same ground to find that one thing that is in a place you've already been. The latter is bad because you're both not seeing anything new, and you're forced to comb over the entire area (because "oh I've already been here in the past" isn't a good enough reason to avoid checking somewhere).
>>332735349
>You should probably find a new series to play.
I have. Dragon Quest pretty much became my go to series after Zelda fell apart in the last 10 years.
>It seems like you'd rather know where things are so you can get to the next boss battle quicker. That isn't what any Zelda game is about.
>What do you play Zelda for if it isn't puzzles?
You're assuming things. My favorite Zelda games are the first five games. Which are even more open ended than the recent ones and don't tell you exactly where to go or what to do. While the more recent games tell you exactly where to go and shoe-horn you into set objectives.
But when it comes to sliding block or fetch quests, I generally don't like them in any game. I had the same problem in Resident Evil and Final Fantasy. And even a couple in Dragon Quest VI and VII.
